This test would have been much more interesting with normal/road legal winter tires in my opinion (In Norway, Finland and Sweden, the maximum allowed studs per tire is 150.)
First off, I have to say how awesome this is to show this much data between these two tires, and yes, we can probably extrapolate from your performance that street legal studded tires would perform somewhere between your studless and your studded tires. But second I have to say that Zeruel82Mk2 is exactly right. If you are considering the difference between race tires and are giving racing information to racing enthusiasts, then it is fine to compare racing specific tires, but if you want to broaden your viewing audience by including all drivers who do any winter driving, then including a set of all season tires and street legal studded tires with these awesome tests, would be beneficial to more people.
@@samuelsummers1371 There isn't a specific maximum, but it's based on the circumference of the tire. 50 studs per meter afaik (so 205/55 would have 96). It's been lowered cause studs kick up road dust in crazy amounts and with climate change, winters are becoming non-existent, so it just gets worse. There are exemptions if the manufacturer can prove it doesn't increase pollution.
Esa Edvik ah, I didn't think about all the dust they'll kick up. Can imagine a country full of people driving Subaru STIs with 400 stud wheels being particularly good for pollution induces respiratory problems!
"...road legal studded tires compared to the studless tires." That's my life for the past 25+ years. Been through many brands including Blizzack, Alpine, Nokian Hakkawhatever, then Nokian studded (others too). On icy roads, no contest, studs win. Even under snow there often lurks ice. Studs win there too. In fluffy snow without ice, good snow tires can be fine; but studless and studded Ice Tires are almost always very good snow tires too. Never forget that being stuck in snow is not a big deal compared to slipping on an icy road and crashing. In my view, ice is a bigger threat than snow. My latest vehicle is a crossover and needs 'MOE' Run Flats, so my only practical choice is Pirelli Scorpion studless Ice Tires.
J H The problem with studded tires is when you have to drive on an highway where snow and ice has been removed by plowtrucks/salt and you drive on clean road surface. The grip with studded winter tires is not as good as ordinary winter tires, especially the breaking distance its longer.
@@BobMonkeypimp It's an amazing car. There really isn't another like it. I bought my 2019 STI one year ago today and will be posting a one year review soon.
I'm watching just to see if my prediction of studded tires being better was correct. Chalk one up to common sense! Yes, spikes in ice are better than no spikes in ice.
Can a winter tire like the one in the video be used on a car in florida? I travel to NC a lot in the winter and my summer tires are borderline dangerous once I hit snow and ice in the mountains in my 4runner. I wouldn't mind using a winter tire year round as long as they perform well in the rain, too.
Quebec enacted a winter tire law because of accident stats with "all season". Most people used winter tires but too many did not. Since the rule change, accidents are down 5% and deaths down 3%. (Winter conditions).
I have the Michelin Ice-X on my Prius and they work marvelously. It’s hilarious during snowstorms when everyone is scared to go out in anything less than a massive 4WD truck or SUV and they get passed by a little Prius.
Those are good tires I had them on my Honda civic when I had one. I'm the guy with 4x4 large heavy truck now though and the added weight gives me fine traction for day to day so I haven't even bothered with winter tires. I'd be curious to see a test where weight vs traction is tested but I guess thats harder to test in a car.
I bought a 5-speed Aspire for the boys to drive to school. Man, did they gripe! But the little car was great on light snow and would climb slopes that left 4x4s spinning out on. I hadn't expected that!
I've gone through a lot of winter tires over the decades. Currently Michelin X-Ice Xi3. They are no better than other top brand winter tires. Only parameter I can't comment on yet is wear as I installed them in November.
it turns out that limited-slip differentials and computer-controlled traction control are better at managing limited traction than even pro drivers are.
@@mmnootzenpoof The thing is that you get more frictional (slipping) grip on loose surfaces than you get static grip (no wheel spin). And that is totally against every graph showing the transition between the two, where the peak is always on the static grip side, and a significant drop as soon as the wheels start slipping.
I live in Oregon and we do some skiing in the winter. I hit some black ice 3 years ago and rolled my truck. I have an '18 Tacoma now and run the studded Hakkas in the winter. So far they've been great. I'm not sure how much longer studs will be allowed here so this video was great to see. I love that you pointed out the fact about the steering inputs being delayed, that is sooo true. Excellent video, thank you.
I really appreciate this video. I have seen some reviews stating that some modern studless tires can handle equal to or better than studded and really felt that these reviews don't do studs justice. I live in Canada in a place where I constantly see roads and especially intersections polished to a glaze. Studs definitely help very frequently in those situations. One part that I feel is really not represented well is how good these tires are after a season or two. I can not afford to replace my winters every season. In my driving life, I have found that old studded tires significantly outperform old studless tires. I will definitely continue to buy studded tires for the foreseeable future.
It seems like most of the people who actually live where the road conditions are oftentimes hazardous in the winter, always recommend studs and won't go without them. I've never seen or heard someone say, "I live in northern Finland, Norway, or Greenland, and I find that studless tires work just as well." Not once.
@@Foxx488 unfortunately, there are a lot of people here that don't have the experience to see and compare the difference between climate-appropriate tires and regular all seasons. There may be other reasons behind this but it baffles me sometimes. If you're from one of those areas, I'm pretty sure that your driver education is a step above too.
@@GooPH00 Interesting, that is unfortunate. I guess it probably depends a little bit on how interested the people are in the specifics of their vehicle. I’d agree on the driver education as well, but that education can take many forms. I learned how to drive in awful ice storms before the age of 16, because I was forced to growing up in a rural area, and usually with sub-par equipment. I find that city driving is usually more risky 😅
I've used both studless and studded and I find that studded tires are superior on ice which causes the most serious accidents in our winter conditions, and they last longer too. The very soft compound you have to use on a studless tire does not last much more than 3 winters, yet I've been able to use studded Nokians and Generals for twice as long.
It's true that stud less tyres have a softer compound and softer compounds do wear down quicker. However they actually keep their performance much better than studded tyres(if you drive a lot on tarmac during the winter). This is because studded tyres get all their advantage from the studs, which wear down very quickly on tarmac. It would depend on a lot of variables of course, but I would not be surprised if stud less tyres outperformed stud tyres even on ice by the second or especially third season. If they were subjected to a lot of exposed tarmac driving, which I assume most are.
@@TheSaltyAdmiral If you keep spinning your tires on asphalt, sure they won't last long. But if you adapt your driving with quality studded tires (like Nokian) they last for a long time.
Great video!!. I was hoping for a test to be done on snow covered roads w or w/o slush instead of an ice covered lake. This would be closer to real world every day driving for many of us in North America especially the USA. What this video proves is that studded tires dominate ice covered roads and that stud-less winter tires aren't too bad for the same conditions.
driving on snow and ice can be a up to 7-9 month of the year in my area and ive been driving through it for decades . the Blizzaks are a great winter tire and i do recommend it , im even using it on my current winter vehicle and have ran them on many of other past winter vehicles, that being said the only reason im using them this winter is because my last set of tires after 6 winters were on their way out and i got an amazing deal on them. my last set were studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta and from experiences also using them on other vehicles they just plain work better over all, stopping , accelerating , turning etc on snow and ice its normal for the highs to be -40 ambient and one thing ive noticed is that blizzaks tend to lose a lot of their grip under -20f temps compared to many studded tires any dedicated snow tire is better then all seasons so i say run what you can afford in winter
I live in the northern US and have Nokian Hakkapeliitta on my WRX it's great, such a huge difference for winter driving it's amazing. My car can do what a lot of big trucks cannot...blast through the snow in a blizzard in full control.
Very interesting observation. I can see how extreme cold could negate some of the special rubber properties. I really wish he had done this test with a more reasonable studded tire.
Hakkapelliitta is developed in Finland, intended for Scandinavian (and I guess Canadian) weather, they are not best performers on wet or dry tarmac, but really have endless grip on snow and ice in quite cold weather. Cheap Korean or Chinese studded tires are notorious that they will loose grip, and if it´s -20F or colder then they are like plastic and will have flat spots after a cold night. Some are useless already when it´s below -10F. Not much of a surprise, because Nokian has extensive R&D and best rubber, while cheaper tires use more graphite and even the studs are made from softer material that will break off or wear faster.
siamiam thanks, my Hakkapaleita in my 2015;Fwd Dodge Journey are great, considering FWD.. INTERESTINGLY, Iput cheaper HANKOOK STUDS ON my RWD 2007 GMC CANYON , AND drive for Great and traction..( thouhg do put 100 LB BALLAST IN LOAD bed balanced )!!!?? , SOON doing my fourth year on THESE STUDS , ALWAYS INTERESTING what other people use and experienced..!, we live in Helena Valley...MT. ...
Ive got studded tires on both our cars for idaho winters. Great in their environment but suck on dry pavement. All squirmy and you actually lose a bit of dry weather traction
@@zuestoots5176 yep you're right. If o remember correctly (and I may well be wrong!) the law over there was they had to be changed by a certain month, probably to stop the roads bring destroyed also!
yet the government wants us to use studless to save the pavement i think its ridiculous to favor the pavement over lives since the road maintenance here sucks
Only 10 states (mostly in the South except oddly Minnesota and Wisconsin) prohibit studded tires. Most states allow them during winter months. I found them invaluable in the often unplowed hills of Pennsylvania.
I'm from Wisconsin, honestly I don't think studded tires are really needed here, at least not in the part of the state I'm in. While we do get a lot of snow our roads are mostly paved, we have very few dirt roads and our road crews do really well an clearing the streets. Studs aren't very good on dry paved streets, they need to be able to bite into the road otherwise they just skate on top and make matters worse. I think a good set of studless winter tires are the best choice for much of Wisconsin.
@@ajs622 I agree. We plow and salt our streets so much that I can count on one hand the number of times my little side street hasn't been completely clear the last few years. The main roads are all plowed and salted within hours of any snow coming down. The only thing studded tires would do in WI is destroy our roads even faster than then already destroy themselves.
LPRNChannel thanks, me too. Helena Valley...interestingly , the cheaper HANKOOK STUDS ON MY 2007 GMC RWD CANYON, SEEM TO be VERY GOOD( thouhg I use 100 Lb Ballast carefully in load bed)...!
Love your videos... I opted for my first set of (road-legal) studded tires when I needed new winters last fall, and am running them now on a '15 Impreza in QC. Definitely convinced of the benefits after the amount of ice this winter has had.
Michael E thanks, yes: i using Studs her in Helena B Valley, to both vehicles, the Nokaina Hamkapaleit are great.. Interestingly, moved from snow Belt in North Indiana: not near the icing, black, etc. there.....
I'm glad you did this test in conjunction with a car manufacturer rather than a tire manufacturer. It makes the tests more authentic, less conflicting of interests.
The Nokian Hakkapelitta 9 would have been the best tire to try as it’s one of the best winter tires on the market which can be run studless and studded.
As someone who lives in Norway, I need good winter tyres on my car and I can honestly say that studless is great on all conditions other than thin ice on freezing rain or black ice conditions. In that case, I preter studded tyres. But those conditions are rare where I live, and it's also annoying to listen to the sound the studded tyres make on dry asphalt.
My daily commute has historically included a back road hill that can be precisely-polished wet ice. The sort of surface where you could place a coin flat on the road and it would slide to the bottom of the hill. Studless Ice Tires are lovely; much better than mere "winter" snow times, but for pure ice studded tires rule. And yes, I've gone through the various brands over the past decades.
My experience with studless winter tires the past 20 years have been excellent. I've driven on michelin alpines, Bridgestone blizzaks, hankook winter i-cept, toyo celsius, and michelin x-ice series. I feel fully confident in the winter with these tires and even on ice they do decent enough to give me some safety room. I feel confident in all severe winter conditions with this new type of tire technology. The blizzaks are what I have the most experience with and those are the main choice unless I can find some michelin x-ice. It would be nice though to see a comparison between the regular studded consumer available tire vs studless. The studs used in this video wouldn't be used by a typical consumer. From what I've seen elsewhere, high end studless technology has closed the gap between the normally available studded tire.
Back in the late 1970s, when I was in college and then working at IBM in Owego, NY (about 10 miles north of the PA border), studded snow tires were legal in NY but illegal in PA. That part didn't affect me. However, 1. When driving on plowed roads, the road surface ground down the studs so they weren't as effective as the ones in the video. But they did help, and I put studded snow tires on all four wheels because, hey, you need to steer too! 2. But one morning when I was driving to work on Route 17 along the Susquehanna River, the mist from the river made the road surface very slippery. There were many cars spun off into the snow-filled median with IBM guys in white shirts and dark ties waiting to be pulled out. I made sure my 1968 350 cu 4bbl carb Firebird was not near any other traffic and gunned the engine for a couple of seconds. I had completely changed lanes before I got it back under control. Between the power of the Firebird engine and the worn-down studs, they didn't seem to offer as much grip differential as this video showed. But I never hit anything, nobody ever hit me, and it survived the NY winters but finally dissolved in the salt air of South Florida. And when the brake lines could no longer be repaired, it was time to say goodbye to it. But it served me well, and proved my Dad wrong: It was a decent snow car, could start in second gear to reduce wheel spin, and always had good Michelins on it (both for summer and for winter). When people would tel me that the tires were worth more than the car, I reminded them that the tires weren't worth near as much as the humans riding in it, and that ended that argument. Anyway, great video! And thanks for the memories it brought back to me!
Very happy how this test was conducted. I've never seen any test done between tires or drivetrains where you change driving style let alone experience between drivers. It's a shame you didn't include the BRZ but I'm still happy with the info we got.
Haha, definitely a bit scary when first driving onto it, but eventually you forget about it and just have fun. They'd done plenty of testing, and the ice was something like 16-18" thick. Apparently all you "need" is about six to nine inches of ice for a car to not fall in...
Try lake of the woods in northern Minnesota. They actually plow streets and have street signs out on the lake. The lake is huge. You can drive 20+ miles out, from out there it feels like your in the middle of a field its just dead flat with nothing as far as you can see. The ice can be 3+ feet thick.
Northern Canada, ice roads are the only way into some communities. Winter time is when heavy haulers are used to transport.... the physics are very interesting.
That looked like a ton of fun. Studded tires are legal during certain months where I live, so I run them when I can. After my first year without them, I swore I'd never go back to studless for winter driving. I've pulled many other drivers who didn't have studs back onto the road!
Thanks, about the same here in HELENA Valley, MT: I run( 2015 Journey FWD), NOKIAN STUDS/ Summer Nokian, *& HANKOOK STUDS/ Goodyears Wrangler on my 2007;❤️Canyon/SE….. hard to turn/ brake/track, & drive w/ Out Studs in Winter(* moved here w/oUT AWD/4WD:: though only helps on some “accelerating “……(experience speaking.)❤……..
Interesting. I’ve been involved in ice racing for several years, and some testing we’ve done showed a 15% lap time improvement using a studded vs non-studded versions of the same tire. I was curious to see the outcome here, and a bit surprised to see it exactly same. Given the result of the slip/no-slip acceleration test, it would be interesting to see the braking tests done with ABS disabled. Especially on snow vs ice, I’m sure the absolute straight line braking distances would be shorter with lockup.
👍I have studs on all my cars and I would never winter drive without them. For consideration, if your track had longer stretch with higher speed and tight curves at the end, the lap time difference could easily reach 50%. And one big down side of studded tires is that tailgaters tend to hit you when you brake because they donc account for the fact that you won't slide as much as them. The solution is to keep a hitch ball installed on your car. It will punch in their front bumper and protect yours. Worked for me three time so far.😆 Awesome video, as always...;-)
I'd love to see the same comparison, but with two sets of the same tire, one with road legal studs, both on each of snow covered roads, wet roads, and ice.
To be fair the best studless and road legal studded tyres have other design differences than just the studs, so wouldn't necessarily be totally fair for the studless tyre if you didn't pick good ones.
From my experience, studless tires shine at low temperatures (-15°C and colder) and also in the cities (where it's usually not snowy at all). Studs are very useful on ice and in slush, and also when the weather is around 0°C (±2). So if you live in the city, opt for studless; if you commute between towns a lot, studs are probably better. If your winters are very cold, both work great.
Great video as always, looks like a ton of fun. I think an interesting follow up question to this (for which I'd guess there's data somewhere on the internet) is how studded tires do if the studs are worn vs studless, and how long it takes for them to reach that crossing point (for the average person). For myself, I use studless tires because here in North Idaho we typically get maybe 3-10 days a year of actual icy road conditions, and even then it's primarily on the side roads. Since about 60 miles of my 65 mile commute is on the freeway with typically bare pavement, I felt as though when I was using studs I just destroyed the studs on my tires too fast for it to be worth it for those couple of days they would help, and I felt concerned that they wouldn't perform as well as studless tires after a few months of wearing on the studs on the more common snowy or rainy or dry days. I don't know if my hypothesis holds water, but that's been my experience!
@@s4nder86 That's interesting, but I moreso meant the performance of worn studded tires in non-icy conditions. Due to the ratio of ice driving vs non-ice driving I do, I speculated the worn studded tires did worse than non-studs in non-icy conditions, and therefore I went with those. If studded tires with worn studs did better than studless tires in snow/rain/dry, I'd be very surprised and happy to change my tires over next season. ;)
Very Good demonstration I’m a pro stud person. My drive way is 1000 feet with a 10% grade and when there is a coating of ice on the surface it is impossible to walk on but with 4WD and 4wheel studs it is possible stop and start up the grade with safety. On dry surface it definitely poorer stopping distance. Driving responsibly they are priceless. Our state has months they be used. Yes they damage the road surface. Would consider blizzacks if I didn’t have the 10% grade.
As a Canadian who lives in the north, I have always used studless winter tires on front wheel drive, 4x4 and AWD cars and SUV's. I even have studable tires without studs that are very good. Some have performed better than others. One set was so terrible that I returned them and traded up for a better tire. That said, I have now bought a new front wheel drive car with studded winter tires (about 100 studs each), and so far they have been excellent on the ice and snow packed roads. Studs are legal on the roads in my area from fall to spring.
i wanted to get my tires studded . the tire shop said once you get a few thousand mile and the studs get rounded its like having ball bearing on the tires ,. im sure thy are great when new . id like to see a used studded tire test
during winter, often the road will be dry asphalt. i live in northern canada. studded tires are atrocious on very cold dry asphalt. they may be very good on ice, but on dry asphalt, they are the worse.
Amazing experience, I envy you! And congratulations for your laptime and the quality of your humor and/or scientific experiments! :D I always laugh my ass off and learn something from these videos!
Where you guys messed up. You could plainly see in one of the shots that the arrow showing the correct rotation of the tire was wrong. You had at least some of the tires mounted backwards. They were directional tires designed to go one way.
Having only driven with summer tyres in Greek snow (which happens once in a decade) and then driving in Iceland with studded tyres, the studded tyres driving looked almost like normal summer driving with cheap / worn out tyres. It was mighty impressive.
Gummo Stump true, but most people can’t fathom that someone could live 20 miles from asphalt and need them every day, but I am definitely in the 150 stud per tire group not the 300+! Although I would love to have a set for playing around!
@@johnramsayskier I feel you, we get hard winters where I live, and combined with hills everywhere, studs are commonplace. Part of me wonders if it's worth ripping ruts into the roads that our government can't afford to replace for years. Personally, I don't find studs make a noticeable enough difference to even be worth the extra road noise that they make. Even on the horrendously slippery nights when the melted pack snow leaves a sheet of ice everywhere, I don't find myself wanting for any more grip. I do hate how people think of awd, though. Sure, they can pick up speed quicker, but stopping is a different story.
Gummo Stump stopping is the hard part for sure! That’s why I have studs! People never seem to understand that stopping in winter conditions isn’t the problem 🙄 glad to see someone sensible somewhere!
@@gummostump4217 passenger cars, even with studded tires, do very little damage to paved roads compared to trucks, especially trucks with chains. it's all about the pressure being applied to the road. try driving up US-26 over Mount Hood some time -- the truck lane has deep ruts worn into it, but the passing lane has none. trucks are not permitted to use studded tires in Oregon, and chains are mandatory, whereas cars and pickups are welcome to use studs, and many people do.
I had Bridgestone Blizzak WS-70's on a LeSabre, and experimented whenever I had the chance. Just as much ability to start on a slope as a 4wd Yukon XL with Firestone Destination LE that were at least half worn. I also found that on a slope I could not start on going forward, I could in reverse. 62.4 % on the front on that vehicle. I think a 50/50 rwd car would start better going forward, as I am thinking force / weight transfers toward the downhill part of the car. Really interesting and fun to learn. I got 3 seasons out of my Blizzaks and still have 9/32 (I'll throw out at 6/32) but, I had a set of all seasons on separate rims and only ran the winters when there was snow on the ground.
I cycle commute in Toronto on schwalbe winter marathon studded tires. And I think it's worth noting, studs really are only great on ice. Yet at least in TO, we usually have more wet pavement than ice (we're rather heavy handed with the salt). And on wet pavement, with studs, you're trying to grip a hard slick surface with a harder substance that yields only as much as the rubber it's seated in. In practice, studs in a tire means less rubber contacting the ground. throw in painted road surfaces and the odd metal streetcar track, and off ice, studded tires offer significantly less grip than normal tires. Now I still run them, cause two wheels on black ice is not my idea of a party even with studs. But the penalty in acceleration, efficiency, and stopping power, in the most common conditions here, is substantial.
@@SparxI0 Thats nice, many countries you cant use them. and if i have to decide between studs or without, i wound go with studs, everytime. You never know what is under that snow. and if you have automatic car, its pain in the ass with out studs sometimes :D
I've been using studded tires myself for 20 years and I appreciate it when they are discussed. If everyone were to use studded tires instead of normal winter tires, it would save many lives every year. But whenever people hear that you drive studded tires, they just laugh at you. This shows that most of them are not even aware of the dangers. But here in Austria, only 110 spikes may be used for rims under 13 inches and only 130 spikes for rims larger than 13 inches. The spikes must not protrude more than 2mm above the running surface. To make it short... the tire in the picture is clearly not street legal in Austria. That is mentioned, yes, but what is this test supposed to prove then? Also, don't forget that Subarus always have 4-wheel drive - which I advocate - but the average car on the road doesn't have. It would have been more interesting if two normal cars had been used with legal tires in everyday driving situations, even though I appreciate the contribution to road safety of Subaru by insisting on 4-wheel drive.
I ran Blizzaks for years on my Ford Probe SE and my opinion of them is they might be much better than your data suggests. One night I went down to the local Wal-Mart parking lot and did some testing of my own on glare ice. Braking ability? Pretty much you just step on the brake as hard as you want and the car simply stops. No BS. Acceleration takes longer, but who's complaining? Not me!
You say in this video that you learned: "studded tires can make a significant improvement for winter driving conditions". This was not shown in your tests unless you feel that 'winter driving' is defined by a solid ice driving surface! But what about driving on cleared winter pavement? You know, the winter driving conditions that are experienced the vast majority of time by the vast majority of drivers in North America. In this respect, you make the same mistake in saying (in a previous video supported by a tire retailer) that winter tires were an improvement on cleared winter pavement compared to all-season tires - when the actual data conclusively show the opposite. (Of course, your tests did show that winter tires are better for snow covered roads). Do you have any idea about the hit to your credibility that occurs when you (erroneously) parrot the commercial interests of your 'sponsors'? In any event, driving on (rarely-occurring, transient) ice covered roads is generally a foolhardy activity for typical drivers. Additionally, studded tires are legal for winter driving in various N. American jurisdictions. A more meaningful comparison (regarding the above video) would have been on winter pavement.
I love that you went in-depth enough to show the difference between 100-200 studs per tire you might use on the street (in some places) and 400+ for racing tires, wish you had done street legal studded ties as well. And you are getting pro rally drivers on this channel now! - you've come quite the ways away from your original whiteboard :)
@@EngineeringExplained Thanks :) And it would be interesting to see what conditions (if any, other than perhaps dry asphalt) would cause studded tires to have a longer braking distance or poorer performance than non-studded. I think that could be a line that drives a purchase decision for some - knowing both ends of each sacrifice.
My first experience with studded tires on ice was with ice racing studs which were more like bolts sticking out than these studs. It was a Grand Cherokee and he said "I'm just going to warn you, it feels like it's going to tip over, but I haven't tipped it over yet". Completely terrifying, but satisfying at the same time. Would love to see this more aggressive comparison. Ice racing is a blast!
I live in the Seattle area (70 years), and what I didn't see comparison of studdless and studded tires in all conditions that I see from late Fall to early Spring. A bad year will have snow for 10 days (no more than 4 days at a time) a season and there have been years with no snow at all. There are more days that we might get black ice (looks wet but is a thin layer of ice) then snow. When I still skied, I would drive from wet pavement to compact snow and ice then snow in the mountain passes. It was common to drive in rain, turning to snow (wet snow) then snow all within 30 miles. Too me, the proper test would be to test both tires on dry, wet, ice and snow. Washington State Patrol did that test, and found that on both dry and wet road surfaces, studded tires added stopping distance (by a car length or more). Also left out of the test, is the damage the studded tires do to the roads. I didn't see any mention of States that restrict or prohibits studded tires.
Downside to studded tires however is the shortened life span. After about 1 season on them the studs will mostly be flush with the tires, then they start falling out. Once they've fallen out the rubber deteriorates around where the stud was pretty quick. I've ran many studded tires over the years, usually averaging about 3 years per set. Now I'm running studdless winter tires on my wrx and I'm on the 3rd winter with them and they still have 90% tread.
I've been using studded winter tires for many years. 5-6 months of snow and ice where I live. These studs have saved me from being involved in an accident on more than one occasion. I wouldn't use anything else. You never know when you'll encounter ice.
Dunlop Wintermaxx on 16” steelies for the ST. Good grip and extra protection from Illinois potholes. Down near Zero, snow doesn’t melt under pressure and it’s like driving in fine sand.
Great scientific approach to compare as evenly as possible. As a few others have said it would have been cool to see a 3rd car with regular all season tires to see how much of difference there is.
Every year extensive tests of winter tires, studded and non-studded are performed for many magazines and media in my area (Norway), and I have Nokian and Continental are usually on top of the list, Michelin are pretty good too these days. But studded are what I prefer as it's mostly not much loose snow on the roads here during winter as they are being maintained a lot, so the surface if hard. These tests are done by big centers that tests for lots media outlets and have lots of experience doing this.
Every year I went for studded tires we had a dry, warm winter. Money wasted vs my normal BLIIZZAK's. Which brings up a point. Run studs on dry roads and they wear down. Plus beat up the roads as well. GREAT on hard packed snow or ice but not so good on dry roads.
I wonder if any of the launch experiments had anything to do with the AWD system in the Subaru. Subaru has one of the best AWD systems for any manufacturer.I would be interested to see the results of these same tests with FWD or RWD vehicle.
I don't care at all about cars but I really enjoy your videos. The actual engineering behind cars is super cool even if the vehicles themselves do nothing for me.
Had studded tires on my old 560SEL 'Benz.....only thing they did was kept the car going strait when I had to panic stop. Cause morons think stopping distances are the same as in summer when they pull out in front of you.
The 2 days a winter where there is ice on the road, as compared to snow/slush, just don't make it worthwhile around here to have studs. The tire noise alone from studded tires is a good reason to stick to studless! My Impreza with Blizzaks is good enough for this Canadian winter!
This is officially the most jealous I have ever been of you Jason;) what an awesome experience. My STI and I live on Maui so we never get to play in snow and ice... or hang out with Patrik Sandell! So cool.
There is finally some Subaru weather here in Estonia, perfect timing for this video. Time to head out and go sideways responsibly at a closed off area.
The studded tire looked like it was based on old Michelin or Nokian Hakkapeliitta 2 model, which was a decent winter tire around 15 years ago. This one is a different manufacturer and probably sold without studs which are added later. One thing with self made studded tires is that they only work on ice and snow, using them on asphalt is a no go. These have studs that stick out less but still if they are not studded in factory, they will likely break or fly off. But for having fun it´s quite decent, regular winter tires will make having either 200 or 400 horsepower feel no different, because on mixture of ice and snow they just don´t grip with ice as much as needed.
What a delight! Thank you for sharing! Especially thank you for the bit at the end where you describe driving with safe following distance! That one habit, if adopted universally, would save SO MANY lives on all roads.
Thumbs up to a pro driver consistency with a variable ice & snow surface👍 Studded tire are good where I live in Quebec! But a Blizzak can be an excellent choice to go through winter.
I think another valuable point would be how studded tires perform on dry/bare pavement. I live in Canada, and although we do get icy conditions, the majority of driving is done on near bare pavement.
As usual, another well-crafted video! A little light on the use of white boards this time, though....! ;) Overall, this is an accurate assessment of initial performance differences between studded and studless winter tires. However, even forgiving the fact that the assessed studded tires performed far better than any road-legal studs (both in terms of the quantity and length of the studs), this performance gap does not stand the test of time. The distinct disadvantage of studs (not counting noise), which I did not hear mentioned at all, is that this level of performance quickly diminishes in road use. While I can use a set of Blizzaks for three winters (about six months each, ~24,000 miles) with consistent performance, the performance of studs goes from outstanding to acceptable over the course of a single winter due to the studs wearing and deforming over that relatively short period of time. In terms of long term bang-for-the-buck and dependability in real-world conditions, studless rules the winter road.
I put studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT3 winter tires on my Toyota Tundra this year. I feel safer&have had excellent results on glare ice, slushy, snow-packed&on fresh snow covered roads. I can also attest to their off-road excellence. Even when pulling a 30 foot snowmobile trailer. I feel I am qualified to judge because of a lifetime of driving on Wyoming's winter roads. If the road is open, we go. If the road is closed by WHP or others, we find a way around. They were not inexpensive. But the best I have ever used.
I live in Canada and with my Hankook I-Pike studless tires I can drift just about anywhere in my 06 STI with high speeds and I can only imagine what I could do with studded tires lol looks like a blast drifting on the ice! Thanks for confirming what I already knew about driving on snow :)
I'm surprised that Subaru does this event with tires not available in the US. As you mentioned at the end of the video, the studdless ice and snow tire (Blizzak WS90) is the better option for about 99% of drivers in the US. Also keep in mind that about the only time a studded winter tire will shine is on an ice covered surface like the frozen lake. Take those same studded tires (or any studded tire) out on the open road where it's a wet/cold winter day and the studdless ice and snow will outperform it by a considerable distance. All of this said, for the environment you tested the tires in, the differences are expected. Nice video.
We rarely see ice where I live, yet everyone seems to drive studs during the winter. One test I want to see, is road legal studs vs studless in the RAIN. Very little good info on this but my own experiences seem to suggest studless are way better, in the rain.
Great video! But, I would note that lake ice is much softer and easier to grip than polished road ice. In the real world, dumping the clutch would not get you any where on polished ice at a stop light, which is why you need to go easy and take advantage of static coefficient of friction rather than kinetic. (Speaking as a Canadian with just a tiny bit of winter driving experience ;)
Great test, I only wish you could have run with a normal studded tire and normal length studs. For example I run Cooper Mud & Snow studdable tires. I've ran with and without and prefer with as freezing rain days are much better with studs. I always choose tires based off the worst conditions I expect to encounter.
Excellent video. Thanks for sharing. Nice to see that your testing validated my common sense. Reminds me of when I go hiking around ice caves (frozen waterfalls, etc.). With regular rubber soled winter boots, it's extremely difficult to walk around ice caves. Throw on a simple studded cleat under the boot, and no problem. I always wondered how or if studded tires destroy the roads where they are legal. Because once they clear the roads of all the snow, it seems like studs would tear up any asphalt or concrete. I assumed that's why they are not legal in this part of Michigan. Would love to hear from others where they are legal.
The other disadvantage of soft studless snow tires is that when driving on dry pavement such as a climate that has winter with constant freeze/thaw cycles, ( ie, Anchorage, Alaska) they wear much faster than a studded tire with firm rubber. After 63 years in Alaska, I'll continue rolling on studded tires thank you very much. As I have recommended to non skilled drivers like you, " it's cheap insurance". Anchorage, Alaska
I waited 2 months for a set of winter -rated Michelin Cross Climates. On first trip to Sugar Bowl I caught an edge, tumbled and tore my rotator cuff. Now, won't need winter tires until next season, if then....never did find out how well they work.
You've got to consider local conditions. Our winters are pretty mild but we have heavy snow then thaws and freezes that make for ice or snow over ice. I've run both type on our local roads in winter and I'm sticking with studs.
Great video Jason, fun to see the comparison on ice and snow. A suggestion for a follow-on would be studded and studless winter tires ON PAVEMENT when wet or dry in cold to moderate conditions - I ask about this specifically as I live in the Portland area and one of my biggest pet peeves is people who drive around with studded winter tires when they typically see only 1-2 weeks/year where there is actually ice on the roads (and that's generously assuming early morning and over passes). This could also apply elsewhere as there is always a great debate about when to put on and take off your winter tires...lots of ways you could go with this.
+1. .. Here in the Front Range of Colorado studded winter tires are a luv / hate. .. As a Denverite who's 4-day winter weekends are often spent in the mountains, studded tires have their merits. .. Only Sometimes. `89 Porsche 944S2 - studded, `86 &`89 VW GTI's - studded, `95.5 Audi UrS6 wagon - M/S, `98 993 C2S - never, `00 S4 sedan - M/S, `08 VW R32 - Studded, `05 Subi Outback XT - M/S, `20 Outback T/XT - M/S .... So,,, Comme ci, comme ça .. Studded tires on Hwy I-70 at 6k' -- 10,000ft elevations do work their magic, "though".
This test would have been much more interesting with normal/road legal winter tires in my opinion (In Norway, Finland and Sweden, the maximum allowed studs per tire is 150.)
First off, I have to say how awesome this is to show this much data between these two tires, and yes, we can probably extrapolate from your performance that street legal studded tires would perform somewhere between your studless and your studded tires. But second I have to say that Zeruel82Mk2 is exactly right. If you are considering the difference between race tires and are giving racing information to racing enthusiasts, then it is fine to compare racing specific tires, but if you want to broaden your viewing audience by including all drivers who do any winter driving, then including a set of all season tires and street legal studded tires with these awesome tests, would be beneficial to more people.
Why is there a maximum?
150 is not maximum allowed in Finland
@@samuelsummers1371 There isn't a specific maximum, but it's based on the circumference of the tire. 50 studs per meter afaik (so 205/55 would have 96). It's been lowered cause studs kick up road dust in crazy amounts and with climate change, winters are becoming non-existent, so it just gets worse. There are exemptions if the manufacturer can prove it doesn't increase pollution.
Esa Edvik ah, I didn't think about all the dust they'll kick up. Can imagine a country full of people driving Subaru STIs with 400 stud wheels being particularly good for pollution induces respiratory problems!
Pro Dirver: 52.2 Seconds
107% Rule: 55.854 Seconds
Math Nerd: 55.2 Seconds
Congrats, you're officially qualified :)
I've made the cut! What a dream. 🙏
@@EngineeringExplained gg that was an impressive run tbh
Came here to say the same thing too. 👏
What’s the 107% rule?
The remarkable thing to me was what an absolute MACHINE Patrick is! Like only a few tenths from run to run, very consistent!
It would have been really interesting to see road legal studded tires compared to the studless tires.
And on real roads as well wet and/or snowy, not just on ice where studs will perform best.
"...road legal studded tires compared to the studless tires." That's my life for the past 25+ years. Been through many brands including Blizzack, Alpine, Nokian Hakkawhatever, then Nokian studded (others too). On icy roads, no contest, studs win. Even under snow there often lurks ice. Studs win there too. In fluffy snow without ice, good snow tires can be fine; but studless and studded Ice Tires are almost always very good snow tires too. Never forget that being stuck in snow is not a big deal compared to slipping on an icy road and crashing. In my view, ice is a bigger threat than snow. My latest vehicle is a crossover and needs 'MOE' Run Flats, so my only practical choice is Pirelli Scorpion studless Ice Tires.
@@JxH For sure, ice is a way bigger obstacle and hazard than almost any typical amount of snow.
Also testing the same tires with and without the studs would have placed to focus purely on studded vs studless.
J H The problem with studded tires is when you have to drive on an highway where snow and ice has been removed by plowtrucks/salt and you drive on clean road surface. The grip with studded winter tires is not as good as ordinary winter tires, especially the breaking distance its longer.
I just wanted to see the STI driven in snow.
That's exactly why I watched this video.
A man of class I see.
😉
Sexually Transmitted Infections being driven in the snow.
@@BobMonkeypimp It's an amazing car. There really isn't another like it. I bought my 2019 STI one year ago today and will be posting a one year review soon.
"providing useless advice" lol
Why am I watching this? I live in a place with perpetual summer
Learning is fun! I'll never run studded tires on my cars, but still found it fascinating!
I'm watching just to see if my prediction of studded tires being better was correct. Chalk one up to common sense! Yes, spikes in ice are better than no spikes in ice.
Knowledge is power. Flex knowledge on noob snow drivers.
It seems we all will soon. Greetings from Finland with still no snow and barely freezing temps in almost March...
Florida driver, I was morbidly curious after a trip to Chicago slid right through an intersection.
I think you should have included all seasons to show how worthless those are in heavy snow.
A few new a/s styles are actually getting really good at snow (Michelin x-climate +), but ice is still a big difference vs dedicated winter tires.
Can a winter tire like the one in the video be used on a car in florida? I travel to NC a lot in the winter and my summer tires are borderline dangerous once I hit snow and ice in the mountains in my 4runner.
I wouldn't mind using a winter tire year round as long as they perform well in the rain, too.
Quebec enacted a winter tire law because of accident stats with "all season". Most people used winter tires but too many did not. Since the rule change, accidents are down 5% and deaths down 3%. (Winter conditions).
@@AlanTheBeast100 Suprisingly small change in accidents.
ThinkkTwiice nope, the winter tires have a softer rubber that will not last in the heat of FL. They would wear down to nothing in less than a summer.
I have the Michelin Ice-X on my Prius and they work marvelously. It’s hilarious during snowstorms when everyone is scared to go out in anything less than a massive 4WD truck or SUV and they get passed by a little Prius.
Yep, I used Ice-X on my S2000 and it worked out great!
Those are good tires I had them on my Honda civic when I had one. I'm the guy with 4x4 large heavy truck now though and the added weight gives me fine traction for day to day so I haven't even bothered with winter tires. I'd be curious to see a test where weight vs traction is tested but I guess thats harder to test in a car.
I bought a 5-speed Aspire for the boys to drive to school. Man, did they gripe! But the little car was great on light snow and would climb slopes that left 4x4s spinning out on. I hadn't expected that!
Funny- I wouldn’t have pegged Macho Man Randy Savage to be a prius driver 🤔
I've gone through a lot of winter tires over the decades. Currently Michelin X-Ice Xi3. They are no better than other top brand winter tires. Only parameter I can't comment on yet is wear as I installed them in November.
This is why they drop the hammer for rally starts even on ice.
I think this is also why 4-wheel drifting is the fastest way on loose surfaces, while on tarmac losing traction costs time.
it turns out that limited-slip differentials and computer-controlled traction control are better at managing limited traction than even pro drivers are.
@@mmnootzenpoof The thing is that you get more frictional (slipping) grip on loose surfaces than you get static grip (no wheel spin). And that is totally against every graph showing the transition between the two, where the peak is always on the static grip side, and a significant drop as soon as the wheels start slipping.
I live in Oregon and we do some skiing in the winter. I hit some black ice 3 years ago and rolled my truck. I have an '18 Tacoma now and run the studded Hakkas in the winter. So far they've been great. I'm not sure how much longer studs will be allowed here so this video was great to see. I love that you pointed out the fact about the steering inputs being delayed, that is sooo true. Excellent video, thank you.
I really appreciate this video. I have seen some reviews stating that some modern studless tires can handle equal to or better than studded and really felt that these reviews don't do studs justice.
I live in Canada in a place where I constantly see roads and especially intersections polished to a glaze. Studs definitely help very frequently in those situations. One part that I feel is really not represented well is how good these tires are after a season or two. I can not afford to replace my winters every season. In my driving life, I have found that old studded tires significantly outperform old studless tires.
I will definitely continue to buy studded tires for the foreseeable future.
Gavin James about the same here,, HELENA Valley MT!
It seems like most of the people who actually live where the road conditions are oftentimes hazardous in the winter, always recommend studs and won't go without them.
I've never seen or heard someone say, "I live in northern Finland, Norway, or Greenland, and I find that studless tires work just as well." Not once.
@@Foxx488 unfortunately, there are a lot of people here that don't have the experience to see and compare the difference between climate-appropriate tires and regular all seasons. There may be other reasons behind this but it baffles me sometimes. If you're from one of those areas, I'm pretty sure that your driver education is a step above too.
@@GooPH00 Interesting, that is unfortunate. I guess it probably depends a little bit on how interested the people are in the specifics of their vehicle.
I’d agree on the driver education as well, but that education can take many forms. I learned how to drive in awful ice storms before the age of 16, because I was forced to growing up in a rural area, and usually with sub-par equipment.
I find that city driving is usually more risky 😅
I've used both studless and studded and I find that studded tires are superior on ice which causes the most serious accidents in our winter conditions, and they last longer too. The very soft compound you have to use on a studless tire does not last much more than 3 winters, yet I've been able to use studded Nokians and Generals for twice as long.
It's true that stud less tyres have a softer compound and softer compounds do wear down quicker. However they actually keep their performance much better than studded tyres(if you drive a lot on tarmac during the winter). This is because studded tyres get all their advantage from the studs, which wear down very quickly on tarmac. It would depend on a lot of variables of course, but I would not be surprised if stud less tyres outperformed stud tyres even on ice by the second or especially third season. If they were subjected to a lot of exposed tarmac driving, which I assume most are.
@@TheSaltyAdmiral If you keep spinning your tires on asphalt, sure they won't last long. But if you adapt your driving with quality studded tires (like Nokian) they last for a long time.
Great video!!. I was hoping for a test to be done on snow covered roads w or w/o slush instead of an ice covered lake. This would be closer to real world every day driving for many of us in North America especially the USA. What this video proves is that studded tires dominate ice covered roads and that stud-less winter tires aren't too bad for the same conditions.
driving on snow and ice can be a up to 7-9 month of the year in my area and ive been driving through it for decades .
the Blizzaks are a great winter tire and i do recommend it , im even using it on my current winter vehicle and have ran them on many of other past winter vehicles, that being said the only reason im using them this winter is because my last set of tires after 6 winters were on their way out and i got an amazing deal on them.
my last set were studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta and from experiences also using them on other vehicles they just plain work better over all, stopping , accelerating , turning etc on snow and ice
its normal for the highs to be -40 ambient and one thing ive noticed is that blizzaks tend to lose a lot of their grip under -20f temps compared to many studded tires
any dedicated snow tire is better then all seasons so i say run what you can afford in winter
I live in the northern US and have Nokian Hakkapeliitta on my WRX it's great, such a huge difference for winter driving it's amazing. My car can do what a lot of big trucks cannot...blast through the snow in a blizzard in full control.
Very interesting observation. I can see how extreme cold could negate some of the special rubber properties. I really wish he had done this test with a more reasonable studded tire.
@@muskokamike127 Fairbanks Alaska here
Hakkapelliitta is developed in Finland, intended for Scandinavian (and I guess Canadian) weather, they are not best performers on wet or dry tarmac, but really have endless grip on snow and ice in quite cold weather. Cheap Korean or Chinese studded tires are notorious that they will loose grip, and if it´s -20F or colder then they are like plastic and will have flat spots after a cold night. Some are useless already when it´s below -10F. Not much of a surprise, because Nokian has extensive R&D and best rubber, while cheaper tires use more graphite and even the studs are made from softer material that will break off or wear faster.
siamiam thanks, my Hakkapaleita in my 2015;Fwd Dodge Journey are great, considering FWD.. INTERESTINGLY, Iput cheaper HANKOOK STUDS ON my RWD 2007 GMC CANYON , AND drive for
Great and traction..( thouhg do put 100 LB BALLAST IN LOAD bed balanced )!!!?? , SOON doing my fourth year on THESE STUDS , ALWAYS INTERESTING what other people use and experienced..!, we live in Helena Valley...MT. ...
Would have been nice to compare the same tire in a studded and non-studded version. Plenty are out there now
Those lappi tyres are not streetlegal and are only studded, nokian hakka9 and hakka r3 have the same treadpattern so they should be fun to test
Studded tyres made driving so much easier and safer whilst in Iceland, saved me multiple times!
Ive got studded tires on both our cars for idaho winters. Great in their environment but suck on dry pavement. All squirmy and you actually lose a bit of dry weather traction
@@zuestoots5176 yep you're right. If o remember correctly (and I may well be wrong!) the law over there was they had to be changed by a certain month, probably to stop the roads bring destroyed also!
yet the government wants us to use studless to save the pavement i think its ridiculous to favor the pavement over lives since the road maintenance here sucks
Only 10 states (mostly in the South except oddly Minnesota and Wisconsin) prohibit studded tires. Most states allow them during winter months. I found them invaluable in the often unplowed hills of Pennsylvania.
Yea.
I'm from Wisconsin, honestly I don't think studded tires are really needed here, at least not in the part of the state I'm in. While we do get a lot of snow our roads are mostly paved, we have very few dirt roads and our road crews do really well an clearing the streets. Studs aren't very good on dry paved streets, they need to be able to bite into the road otherwise they just skate on top and make matters worse. I think a good set of studless winter tires are the best choice for much of Wisconsin.
@@ajs622 I agree. We plow and salt our streets so much that I can count on one hand the number of times my little side street hasn't been completely clear the last few years. The main roads are all plowed and salted within hours of any snow coming down. The only thing studded tires would do in WI is destroy our roads even faster than then already destroy themselves.
Couple years ago we put studded Hakkapallita 9 tires on my wife's corolla. I'd never Never go back to unstudded tires.
LPRNChannel thanks, me too. Helena Valley...interestingly , the cheaper HANKOOK STUDS ON MY 2007 GMC RWD CANYON, SEEM TO be VERY GOOD( thouhg I use 100 Lb Ballast carefully in load bed)...!
Love your videos... I opted for my first set of (road-legal) studded tires when I needed new winters last fall, and am running them now on a '15 Impreza in QC. Definitely convinced of the benefits after the amount of ice this winter has had.
Michael E thanks, yes: i using Studs her in Helena B
Valley, to both vehicles, the Nokaina Hamkapaleit are great.. Interestingly, moved from snow Belt in North Indiana: not near the icing, black, etc. there.....
I'm glad you did this test in conjunction with a car manufacturer rather than a tire manufacturer. It makes the tests more authentic, less conflicting of interests.
Welcome to northern WI Jason! Greetings from Rhinelander, about 20 miles south of where this test took place
Flew through Rhinelander, what a hilarious airport, loved it!
The Nokian Hakkapelitta 9 would have been the best tire to try as it’s one of the best winter tires on the market which can be run studless and studded.
As someone who lives in Norway, I need good winter tyres on my car and I can honestly say that studless is great on all conditions other than thin ice on freezing rain or black ice conditions. In that case, I preter studded tyres. But those conditions are rare where I live, and it's also annoying to listen to the sound the studded tyres make on dry asphalt.
Agent Smith ps; love my NOKIAN HAKKAPALIETS
AS, HERE IN helena Valley, MT .
amen
My daily commute has historically included a back road hill that can be precisely-polished wet ice. The sort of surface where you could place a coin flat on the road and it would slide to the bottom of the hill. Studless Ice Tires are lovely; much better than mere "winter" snow times, but for pure ice studded tires rule. And yes, I've gone through the various brands over the past decades.
Coming from Winnipeg, Manitoba(in Canada) yes studs rock
My experience with studless winter tires the past 20 years have been excellent. I've driven on michelin alpines, Bridgestone blizzaks, hankook winter i-cept, toyo celsius, and michelin x-ice series. I feel fully confident in the winter with these tires and even on ice they do decent enough to give me some safety room. I feel confident in all severe winter conditions with this new type of tire technology.
The blizzaks are what I have the most experience with and those are the main choice unless I can find some michelin x-ice.
It would be nice though to see a comparison between the regular studded consumer available tire vs studless. The studs used in this video wouldn't be used by a typical consumer.
From what I've seen elsewhere, high end studless technology has closed the gap between the normally available studded tire.
Yep.. I bought studded winter tires 2 yrs ago. It’s so annoying driving on them when it isn’t consistently snowing yet. Should have just gone studless
I live in Canada I do drifting drills first snowstorm every year. 4WD 4-EVER!
Drifting in Canada....ye mean Oh I better put my Timmies down and actually drive this thing because were going sideways! (Canadian as well)
Back in the late 1970s, when I was in college and then working at IBM in Owego, NY (about 10 miles north of the PA border), studded snow tires were legal in NY but illegal in PA. That part didn't affect me. However,
1. When driving on plowed roads, the road surface ground down the studs so they weren't as effective as the ones in the video. But they did help, and I put studded snow tires on all four wheels because, hey, you need to steer too!
2. But one morning when I was driving to work on Route 17 along the Susquehanna River, the mist from the river made the road surface very slippery. There were many cars spun off into the snow-filled median with IBM guys in white shirts and dark ties waiting to be pulled out. I made sure my 1968 350 cu 4bbl carb Firebird was not near any other traffic and gunned the engine for a couple of seconds. I had completely changed lanes before I got it back under control. Between the power of the Firebird engine and the worn-down studs, they didn't seem to offer as much grip differential as this video showed.
But I never hit anything, nobody ever hit me, and it survived the NY winters but finally dissolved in the salt air of South Florida. And when the brake lines could no longer be repaired, it was time to say goodbye to it. But it served me well, and proved my Dad wrong: It was a decent snow car, could start in second gear to reduce wheel spin, and always had good Michelins on it (both for summer and for winter). When people would tel me that the tires were worth more than the car, I reminded them that the tires weren't worth near as much as the humans riding in it, and that ended that argument.
Anyway, great video! And thanks for the memories it brought back to me!
Would've loved for him to try to pronounce hakkapeliitta :/
Hey-Kay-Pee-Leet-Ay (nailed it)
@@EngineeringExplained Huck-kah-peh-leet-tah
let's settle for ''the best winter tire ever'' is that the right way to pronunce it ?
@@ultanna Michelin newest is a little better right now
@@EngineeringExplained 😁
Very happy how this test was conducted. I've never seen any test done between tires or drivetrains where you change driving style let alone experience between drivers.
It's a shame you didn't include the BRZ but I'm still happy with the info we got.
Being from Texas, I still have a hard time with the physics of driving on a frozen lake.
Haha, definitely a bit scary when first driving onto it, but eventually you forget about it and just have fun. They'd done plenty of testing, and the ice was something like 16-18" thick. Apparently all you "need" is about six to nine inches of ice for a car to not fall in...
I'm with you, Uncle. No such fun here in Louisiana.
Check out the speed records we set up here on ice tracks. 1300 HP 2JZ-powered E30 M3 at 215,5 MPH :D
Try lake of the woods in northern Minnesota. They actually plow streets and have street signs out on the lake. The lake is huge. You can drive 20+ miles out, from out there it feels like your in the middle of a field its just dead flat with nothing as far as you can see. The ice can be 3+ feet thick.
Northern Canada, ice roads are the only way into some communities. Winter time is when heavy haulers are used to transport.... the physics are very interesting.
That looked like a ton of fun. Studded tires are legal during certain months where I live, so I run them when I can. After my first year without them, I swore I'd never go back to studless for winter driving. I've pulled many other drivers who didn't have studs back onto the road!
Thanks, about the same here in HELENA Valley, MT: I run( 2015 Journey FWD), NOKIAN STUDS/ Summer Nokian, *& HANKOOK STUDS/ Goodyears Wrangler on my 2007;❤️Canyon/SE….. hard to turn/ brake/track, & drive w/ Out Studs in Winter(* moved here w/oUT AWD/4WD:: though only helps on some “accelerating “……(experience speaking.)❤……..
Interesting. I’ve been involved in ice racing for several years, and some testing we’ve done showed a 15% lap time improvement using a studded vs non-studded versions of the same tire. I was curious to see the outcome here, and a bit surprised to see it exactly same.
Given the result of the slip/no-slip acceleration test, it would be interesting to see the braking tests done with ABS disabled. Especially on snow vs ice, I’m sure the absolute straight line braking distances would be shorter with lockup.
👍I have studs on all my cars and I would never winter drive without them.
For consideration, if your track had longer stretch with higher speed and tight curves at the end, the lap time difference could easily reach 50%.
And one big down side of studded tires is that tailgaters tend to hit you when you brake because they donc account for the fact that you won't slide as much as them. The solution is to keep a hitch ball installed on your car. It will punch in their front bumper and protect yours. Worked for me three time so far.😆
Awesome video, as always...;-)
I'd love to see the same comparison, but with two sets of the same tire, one with road legal studs, both on each of snow covered roads, wet roads, and ice.
Gummo Stump And also both tires broken in on asphalt for 500 miles. Studs are great new but once they are dull they work much worse.
To be fair the best studless and road legal studded tyres have other design differences than just the studs, so wouldn't necessarily be totally fair for the studless tyre if you didn't pick good ones.
From my experience, studless tires shine at low temperatures (-15°C and colder) and also in the cities (where it's usually not snowy at all). Studs are very useful on ice and in slush, and also when the weather is around 0°C (±2). So if you live in the city, opt for studless; if you commute between towns a lot, studs are probably better. If your winters are very cold, both work great.
Great video as always, looks like a ton of fun. I think an interesting follow up question to this (for which I'd guess there's data somewhere on the internet) is how studded tires do if the studs are worn vs studless, and how long it takes for them to reach that crossing point (for the average person).
For myself, I use studless tires because here in North Idaho we typically get maybe 3-10 days a year of actual icy road conditions, and even then it's primarily on the side roads. Since about 60 miles of my 65 mile commute is on the freeway with typically bare pavement, I felt as though when I was using studs I just destroyed the studs on my tires too fast for it to be worth it for those couple of days they would help, and I felt concerned that they wouldn't perform as well as studless tires after a few months of wearing on the studs on the more common snowy or rainy or dry days.
I don't know if my hypothesis holds water, but that's been my experience!
I read some Swedish test where they concluded even worn studded tires are better than new studless ones on ice.
@@s4nder86 That's interesting, but I moreso meant the performance of worn studded tires in non-icy conditions. Due to the ratio of ice driving vs non-ice driving I do, I speculated the worn studded tires did worse than non-studs in non-icy conditions, and therefore I went with those. If studded tires with worn studs did better than studless tires in snow/rain/dry, I'd be very surprised and happy to change my tires over next season. ;)
Studded tires are illegal here so no interest in the topic. But once again Jason made it interesting and enjoyable.
You have directional tires mounted backwards. LOL
Very Good demonstration I’m a pro stud person. My drive way is 1000 feet with a 10% grade and when there is a coating of ice on the surface it is impossible to walk on but with 4WD and 4wheel studs it is possible stop and start up the grade with safety. On dry surface it definitely poorer stopping distance. Driving responsibly they are priceless. Our state has months they be used. Yes they damage the road surface. Would consider blizzacks if I didn’t have the 10% grade.
The way you describe yourself is damn bloody brilliantl😂
As a Canadian who lives in the north, I have always used studless winter tires on front wheel drive, 4x4 and AWD cars and SUV's. I even have studable tires without studs that are very good. Some have performed better than others. One set was so terrible that I returned them and traded up for a better tire. That said, I have now bought a new front wheel drive car with studded winter tires (about 100 studs each), and so far they have been excellent on the ice and snow packed roads. Studs are legal on the roads in my area from fall to spring.
I was like: oh a new team o neal rally vid
Same here.
I thought the same thing until he said he was going to use ABS because it has the best breaking.
Yeah me too
i wanted to get my tires studded . the tire shop said once you get a few thousand mile and the studs get rounded its like having ball bearing on the tires ,. im sure thy are great when new . id like to see a used studded tire test
Always wanted actual numbers on this, not just assumptions. Thank you!
during winter, often the road will be dry asphalt. i live in northern canada. studded tires are atrocious on very cold dry asphalt. they may be very good on ice, but on dry asphalt, they are the worse.
Alberta is a different story, the first day we get snow is the last day we see bare asphalt for awile.
Amazing experience, I envy you!
And congratulations for your laptime and the quality of your humor and/or scientific experiments! :D
I always laugh my ass off and learn something from these videos!
Very kind, thanks!
Studded Hakkapeliitta 10turned my car into a farm tractor 😂😂😂 it grips so hard. Blizzak are excellent choice too.
Where you guys messed up. You could plainly see in one of the shots that the arrow showing the correct rotation of the tire was wrong. You had at least some of the tires mounted backwards. They were directional tires designed to go one way.
Having only driven with summer tyres in Greek snow (which happens once in a decade) and then driving in Iceland with studded tyres, the studded tyres driving looked almost like normal summer driving with cheap / worn out tyres. It was mighty impressive.
I love it when people tell me there’s no need for studds on my awd cars 😂😂
Well, you're not driving on pure ice with illegally aggressive studs.
Gummo Stump true, but most people can’t fathom that someone could live 20 miles from asphalt and need them every day, but I am definitely in the 150 stud per tire group not the 300+! Although I would love to have a set for playing around!
@@johnramsayskier I feel you, we get hard winters where I live, and combined with hills everywhere, studs are commonplace.
Part of me wonders if it's worth ripping ruts into the roads that our government can't afford to replace for years.
Personally, I don't find studs make a noticeable enough difference to even be worth the extra road noise that they make. Even on the horrendously slippery nights when the melted pack snow leaves a sheet of ice everywhere, I don't find myself wanting for any more grip.
I do hate how people think of awd, though. Sure, they can pick up speed quicker, but stopping is a different story.
Gummo Stump stopping is the hard part for sure! That’s why I have studs! People never seem to understand that stopping in winter conditions isn’t the problem 🙄 glad to see someone sensible somewhere!
@@gummostump4217 passenger cars, even with studded tires, do very little damage to paved roads compared to trucks, especially trucks with chains. it's all about the pressure being applied to the road.
try driving up US-26 over Mount Hood some time -- the truck lane has deep ruts worn into it, but the passing lane has none. trucks are not permitted to use studded tires in Oregon, and chains are mandatory, whereas cars and pickups are welcome to use studs, and many people do.
I had Bridgestone Blizzak WS-70's on a LeSabre, and experimented whenever I had the chance. Just as much ability to start on a slope as a 4wd Yukon XL with Firestone Destination LE that were at least half worn. I also found that on a slope I could not start on going forward, I could in reverse. 62.4 % on the front on that vehicle. I think a 50/50 rwd car would start better going forward, as I am thinking force / weight transfers toward the downhill part of the car. Really interesting and fun to learn. I got 3 seasons out of my Blizzaks and still have 9/32 (I'll throw out at 6/32) but, I had a set of all seasons on separate rims and only ran the winters when there was snow on the ground.
Immediately thought of James Bond's Die Another Day
Stuff like this is what brings me back to this channel over and over.
*puts on studded tires on a STi*
Me: damn dat subie lookin like a stud
I cycle commute in Toronto on schwalbe winter marathon studded tires. And I think it's worth noting, studs really are only great on ice. Yet at least in TO, we usually have more wet pavement than ice (we're rather heavy handed with the salt). And on wet pavement, with studs, you're trying to grip a hard slick surface with a harder substance that yields only as much as the rubber it's seated in. In practice, studs in a tire means less rubber contacting the ground. throw in painted road surfaces and the odd metal streetcar track, and off ice, studded tires offer significantly less grip than normal tires. Now I still run them, cause two wheels on black ice is not my idea of a party even with studs. But the penalty in acceleration, efficiency, and stopping power, in the most common conditions here, is substantial.
Right...off road use only: An unfair test that you can’t use.
depends where you live, in finland you can use studded tires all winter.
Can use studded tires in Canada too :)
@@SparxI0 Thats nice, many countries you cant use them. and if i have to decide between studs or without, i wound go with studs, everytime. You never know what is under that snow. and if you have automatic car, its pain in the ass with out studs sometimes :D
@@SparxI0 Yes but can you use these studded tires that are for off road use only? There is a difference between these and regular studded tires.
I've been using studded tires myself for 20 years and I appreciate it when they are discussed.
If everyone were to use studded tires instead of normal winter tires, it would save many lives every year. But whenever people hear that you drive studded tires, they just laugh at you. This shows that most of them are not even aware of the dangers.
But here in Austria, only 110 spikes may be used for rims under 13 inches and only 130 spikes for rims larger than 13 inches. The spikes must not protrude more than 2mm above the running surface. To make it short... the tire in the picture is clearly not street legal in Austria. That is mentioned, yes, but what is this test supposed to prove then? Also, don't forget that Subarus always have 4-wheel drive - which I advocate - but the average car on the road doesn't have.
It would have been more interesting if two normal cars had been used with legal tires in everyday driving situations, even though I appreciate the contribution to road safety of Subaru by insisting on 4-wheel drive.
Does anyone know where i can get this Subaru rally decal ?
H Alhosani no, pls
I ran Blizzaks for years on my Ford Probe SE and my opinion of them is they might be much better than your data suggests. One night I went down to the local Wal-Mart parking lot and did some testing of my own on glare ice. Braking ability? Pretty much you just step on the brake as hard as you want and the car simply stops. No BS. Acceleration takes longer, but who's complaining? Not me!
You say in this video that you learned: "studded tires can make a significant improvement for winter driving conditions". This was not shown in your tests unless you feel that 'winter driving' is defined by a solid ice driving surface! But what about driving on cleared winter pavement? You know, the winter driving conditions that are experienced the vast majority of time by the vast majority of drivers in North America.
In this respect, you make the same mistake in saying (in a previous video supported by a tire retailer) that winter tires were an improvement on cleared winter pavement compared to all-season tires - when the actual data conclusively show the opposite. (Of course, your tests did show that winter tires are better for snow covered roads). Do you have any idea about the hit to your credibility that occurs when you (erroneously) parrot the commercial interests of your 'sponsors'?
In any event, driving on (rarely-occurring, transient) ice covered roads is generally a foolhardy activity for typical drivers. Additionally, studded tires are legal for winter driving in various N. American jurisdictions. A more meaningful comparison (regarding the above video) would have been on winter pavement.
Dumbest comment ever.
I love that you went in-depth enough to show the difference between 100-200 studs per tire you might use on the street (in some places) and 400+ for racing tires, wish you had done street legal studded ties as well.
And you are getting pro rally drivers on this channel now! - you've come quite the ways away from your original whiteboard :)
Agreed! Would be fascinating to see where road tires fall between the two extremes.
@@EngineeringExplained Thanks :) And it would be interesting to see what conditions (if any, other than perhaps dry asphalt) would cause studded tires to have a longer braking distance or poorer performance than non-studded. I think that could be a line that drives a purchase decision for some - knowing both ends of each sacrifice.
My first experience with studded tires on ice was with ice racing studs which were more like bolts sticking out than these studs. It was a Grand Cherokee and he said "I'm just going to warn you, it feels like it's going to tip over, but I haven't tipped it over yet". Completely terrifying, but satisfying at the same time. Would love to see this more aggressive comparison. Ice racing is a blast!
I live in the Seattle area (70 years), and what I didn't see comparison of studdless and studded tires in all conditions that I see from late Fall to early Spring. A bad year will have snow for 10 days (no more than 4 days at a time) a season and there have been years with no snow at all. There are more days that we might get black ice (looks wet but is a thin layer of ice) then snow. When I still skied, I would drive from wet pavement to compact snow and ice then snow in the mountain passes. It was common to drive in rain, turning to snow (wet snow) then snow all within 30 miles. Too me, the proper test would be to test both tires on dry, wet, ice and snow. Washington State Patrol did that test, and found that on both dry and wet road surfaces, studded tires added stopping distance (by a car length or more). Also left out of the test, is the damage the studded tires do to the roads. I didn't see any mention of States that restrict or prohibits studded tires.
Downside to studded tires however is the shortened life span. After about 1 season on them the studs will mostly be flush with the tires, then they start falling out. Once they've fallen out the rubber deteriorates around where the stud was pretty quick. I've ran many studded tires over the years, usually averaging about 3 years per set. Now I'm running studdless winter tires on my wrx and I'm on the 3rd winter with them and they still have 90% tread.
I've been using studded winter tires for many years. 5-6 months of snow and ice where I live. These studs have saved me from being involved in an accident on more than one occasion.
I wouldn't use anything else. You never know when you'll encounter ice.
Dunlop Wintermaxx on 16” steelies for the ST. Good grip and extra protection from Illinois potholes. Down near Zero, snow doesn’t melt under pressure and it’s like driving in fine sand.
Great scientific approach to compare as evenly as possible. As a few others have said it would have been cool to see a 3rd car with regular all season tires to see how much of difference there is.
Studded for the win on black ice..saved me three times
Every year extensive tests of winter tires, studded and non-studded are performed for many magazines and media in my area (Norway), and I have Nokian and Continental are usually on top of the list, Michelin are pretty good too these days. But studded are what I prefer as it's mostly not much loose snow on the roads here during winter as they are being maintained a lot, so the surface if hard. These tests are done by big centers that tests for lots media outlets and have lots of experience doing this.
Every year I went for studded tires we had a dry, warm winter. Money wasted vs my normal BLIIZZAK's. Which brings up a point. Run studs on dry roads and they wear down. Plus beat up the roads as well. GREAT on hard packed snow or ice but not so good on dry roads.
I wonder if any of the launch experiments had anything to do with the AWD system in the Subaru. Subaru has one of the best AWD systems for any manufacturer.I would be interested to see the results of these same tests with FWD or RWD vehicle.
I don't care at all about cars but I really enjoy your videos. The actual engineering behind cars is super cool even if the vehicles themselves do nothing for me.
Had studded tires on my old 560SEL 'Benz.....only thing they did was kept the car going strait when I had to panic stop. Cause morons think stopping distances are the same as in summer when they pull out in front of you.
The 2 days a winter where there is ice on the road, as compared to snow/slush, just don't make it worthwhile around here to have studs. The tire noise alone from studded tires is a good reason to stick to studless! My Impreza with Blizzaks is good enough for this Canadian winter!
This is officially the most jealous I have ever been of you Jason;) what an awesome experience. My STI and I live on Maui so we never get to play in snow and ice... or hang out with Patrik Sandell! So cool.
There is finally some Subaru weather here in Estonia, perfect timing for this video. Time to head out and go sideways responsibly at a closed off area.
Guard rails on both sides is good enough for closed circuit?
@@gearloose703 I prefer to conduct myself childishly outside of the flow of traffic. My enjoyment should not come with risks to other peoples safety.
The studded tire looked like it was based on old Michelin or Nokian Hakkapeliitta 2 model, which was a decent winter tire around 15 years ago. This one is a different manufacturer and probably sold without studs which are added later. One thing with self made studded tires is that they only work on ice and snow, using them on asphalt is a no go. These have studs that stick out less but still if they are not studded in factory, they will likely break or fly off. But for having fun it´s quite decent, regular winter tires will make having either 200 or 400 horsepower feel no different, because on mixture of ice and snow they just don´t grip with ice as much as needed.
What a delight! Thank you for sharing! Especially thank you for the bit at the end where you describe driving with safe following distance! That one habit, if adopted universally, would save SO MANY lives on all roads.
Thumbs up to a pro driver consistency with a variable ice & snow surface👍 Studded tire are good where I live in Quebec! But a Blizzak can be an excellent choice to go through winter.
I think another valuable point would be how studded tires perform on dry/bare pavement. I live in Canada, and although we do get icy conditions, the majority of driving is done on near bare pavement.
As usual, another well-crafted video! A little light on the use of white boards this time, though....! ;)
Overall, this is an accurate assessment of initial performance differences between studded and studless winter tires. However, even forgiving the fact that the assessed studded tires performed far better than any road-legal studs (both in terms of the quantity and length of the studs), this performance gap does not stand the test of time. The distinct disadvantage of studs (not counting noise), which I did not hear mentioned at all, is that this level of performance quickly diminishes in road use.
While I can use a set of Blizzaks for three winters (about six months each, ~24,000 miles) with consistent performance, the performance of studs goes from outstanding to acceptable over the course of a single winter due to the studs wearing and deforming over that relatively short period of time.
In terms of long term bang-for-the-buck and dependability in real-world conditions, studless rules the winter road.
I put studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT3 winter tires on my Toyota Tundra this year. I feel safer&have had excellent results on glare ice, slushy, snow-packed&on fresh snow covered roads. I can also attest to their off-road excellence. Even when pulling a 30 foot snowmobile trailer. I feel I am qualified to judge because of a lifetime of driving on Wyoming's winter roads. If the road is open, we go. If the road is closed by WHP or others, we find a way around. They were not inexpensive. But the best I have ever used.
I live in Canada and with my Hankook I-Pike studless tires I can drift just about anywhere in my 06 STI with high speeds and I can only imagine what I could do with studded tires lol looks like a blast drifting on the ice! Thanks for confirming what I already knew about driving on snow :)
I'm surprised that Subaru does this event with tires not available in the US. As you mentioned at the end of the video, the studdless ice and snow tire (Blizzak WS90) is the better option for about 99% of drivers in the US. Also keep in mind that about the only time a studded winter tire will shine is on an ice covered surface like the frozen lake. Take those same studded tires (or any studded tire) out on the open road where it's a wet/cold winter day and the studdless ice and snow will outperform it by a considerable distance. All of this said, for the environment you tested the tires in, the differences are expected. Nice video.
We rarely see ice where I live, yet everyone seems to drive studs during the winter. One test I want to see, is road legal studs vs studless in the RAIN. Very little good info on this but my own experiences seem to suggest studless are way better, in the rain.
I enjoyed this video, in the warmth of my mid-California home where it’s 53 degrees at 8:49am. No snow or ice for me.
Great video! But, I would note that lake ice is much softer and easier to grip than polished road ice. In the real world, dumping the clutch would not get you any where on polished ice at a stop light, which is why you need to go easy and take advantage of static coefficient of friction rather than kinetic. (Speaking as a Canadian with just a tiny bit of winter driving experience ;)
In Alaska we all used studded tires during the winter and they worked great!
Heck yes for sure. I had several sets before they became illegal in Illinois in about 1967.
Great test, I only wish you could have run with a normal studded tire and normal length studs. For example I run Cooper Mud & Snow studdable tires. I've ran with and without and prefer with as freezing rain days are much better with studs. I always choose tires based off the worst conditions I expect to encounter.
Excellent video. Thanks for sharing. Nice to see that your testing validated my common sense.
Reminds me of when I go hiking around ice caves (frozen waterfalls, etc.). With regular rubber soled winter boots, it's extremely difficult to walk around ice caves. Throw on a simple studded cleat under the boot, and no problem.
I always wondered how or if studded tires destroy the roads where they are legal. Because once they clear the roads of all the snow, it seems like studs would tear up any asphalt or concrete. I assumed that's why they are not legal in this part of Michigan. Would love to hear from others where they are legal.
The other disadvantage of soft studless snow tires is that when driving on dry pavement such as a climate that has winter with constant freeze/thaw cycles, ( ie, Anchorage, Alaska) they wear much faster than a studded tire with firm rubber.
After 63 years in Alaska, I'll continue rolling on studded tires thank you very much. As I have recommended to non skilled drivers like you, " it's cheap insurance".
Anchorage, Alaska
Cant wait to see the new model. Rumours at 400hp.....FINALLY
Brings back memories of driving on frozen sea ice in Northern Sweden in a convertible. Good times. Studded, of course.
I waited 2 months for a set of winter -rated Michelin Cross Climates. On first trip to Sugar Bowl I caught an edge, tumbled and tore my rotator cuff. Now, won't need winter tires until next season, if then....never did find out how well they work.
Already know the resullt as a Swede but Keep watching for getting the resultat delivered by My favourite non bias youtuber ✌️
You've got to consider local conditions. Our winters are pretty mild but we have heavy snow then thaws and freezes that make for ice or snow over ice. I've run both type on our local roads in winter and I'm sticking with studs.
Great video Jason, fun to see the comparison on ice and snow.
A suggestion for a follow-on would be studded and studless winter tires ON PAVEMENT when wet or dry in cold to moderate conditions - I ask about this specifically as I live in the Portland area and one of my biggest pet peeves is people who drive around with studded winter tires when they typically see only 1-2 weeks/year where there is actually ice on the roads (and that's generously assuming early morning and over passes). This could also apply elsewhere as there is always a great debate about when to put on and take off your winter tires...lots of ways you could go with this.
+1. .. Here in the Front Range of Colorado studded winter tires are a luv / hate. .. As a Denverite who's 4-day winter weekends are often spent in the mountains, studded tires have their merits. .. Only Sometimes.
`89 Porsche 944S2 - studded, `86 &`89 VW GTI's - studded, `95.5 Audi UrS6 wagon - M/S, `98 993 C2S - never, `00 S4 sedan - M/S, `08 VW R32 - Studded, `05 Subi Outback XT - M/S, `20 Outback T/XT - M/S .... So,,, Comme ci, comme ça .. Studded tires on Hwy I-70 at 6k' -- 10,000ft elevations do work their magic, "though".