Updating the BIOS on the $5 Windows 98 PC! - Is 1GHz Possible?
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- Опубліковано 19 жов 2024
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It's time to see if we can update the BIOS on this machine! Will this finally enable us to run the 1 GHz Pentium III? Let's find out!
CPU Upgrade: • Upgrading the CPU in t...
Windows 7 Install: • Installing Windows 7 o...
Windows Vista Install: • Installing Windows Vis...
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#MichaelMJD #Windows98 #BIOS
I am going to try to provide some insight. This Gateway is using a Intel motherboard with a Phoenix BIOS. Let's start by decoding the BIOS Version. WL81020A.15A.0007.P06. Breaking it down section by section. WL81020A is the motherboard model and it tells me it is a Intel 810 Chipset also known as 'WL810E Gateway Bryant'. If it is an original 810 and NOT an 810E, it does not support a 133MHz FSB. This needs to be confirmed by looking at the chipset on the motherboard. The second section 15A tells me the OEM is Gateway 2000 and the 'A' means it is a consumer board. The '0007' is the BIOS revision. The 'P' stands for Production followed by the release number. The first part of the BIOS version is what really matters. You can cross flash between OEM and Intel BIOS versions with a little know how. Let me know if you have any questions.
How do you know all of this?
Actually none of this matters, the mainboard had originally a mendocino SL3BA processor in it with a core voltage of 2V. Mendocino and Coppermine are physically compatible but electrically NOT. Need of a socket adapter like PowerLeap PL-NeoS370. Why the SL4M8 posted at all is beyond me (it shouldn't have at all). And why the SL5QV does not work is clear, its not meant to be in a mendocino 370 socket (without adapter)!
Hey Michael it would be awesome if you could mod the bios as many suggested. Dont stop this series until you get the 1ghz cpu working!!!
Don't you want this to continue?
The truth is this mobo is simply garbage. It couldn't even support the 1ghz which was already out by 2001. There's a reason why gateway failed.
Yeah! BIOS updates are always great if done correctly!
Thanks for the nice follow-up on the $5 98PC!
I love this $5 PC series. Maybe a cheap 100mhz bus CPU that’s just a step up from that 600 one you have. Maybe 650/700 one with 100mhz bus?
I also agree with a graphics card upgrade
he actually uses a 733 mhz cpu but its just underclocked to 600 mhz by (probably) the chipset
Rokas Hrdina yea. But like I said, maybe he can try on that supports his frontside bus of 100
90 WATT POWER SUPPLY!!!
Find a graphics card that’s over 64 mb. You’ll probably get aero support.
good luck with no agp :]
@@kokodin5895 nvidia geforce 6200 pci exists
at least in my area pci cards were always overpriced so i considered them non existing
for windows 98 riva tnt 2 vanta 32mb or geforce 2 mx would make better choice, for vista/win7 gf 5200 or 6200 pci is an option drivers would be not very stable thogh becahse nvidia didn't patch them for any dx9 card ever since windows 7 come out with improved wddm driver model
GTX 2080Ti with PCIE to PCI adapter
@@Jenoxen i belive rtx drivers would not run on this cpu
At least you get to experience the headache of trying to upgrade the CPU in a pre-built OEM system mobo... It almost never goes smoothly.
You could try your hand at hacking the BIOS to add microcode to recognize other CPU's... or ask around some BIOS hacking forums.
You could collect a handful of other chips for just a few bucks each, just to see if any others break the barrier... But 600 MHz is an improvement no matter what; plus the extra cache going from Celeron to Pentium.
Maybe you should grab a quality retail Socket 370 board and build a second system with higher end era parts... To show a comparison counterpart.
Pop a little heatsink on the Northbridge if you have some handy.
Get a pack of shims for the CPU's with exposed dies so you don't crack corners.
Good Luck.
Happened all to often with those old chips, once was too often lol.
I think the BIOS chip is soldered on this MoBo
Its not the microcode, the higher FSBs are not supported on that chipset, that's the end of the line :(
Now get a GeForce 6200 PCI GPU in it and it would be a better experience with Windows 7 and get aero working also.
Does it have Longhorn-compatible drivers?
I have PCIE Nvidia 6200 TurboCache made by emtek, TurboCache is actually using some of system RAM
@@aaaalex1994 it should work fine had a dell dimension 2400 without an agp slot and the 6200 pci ran windows 7 great using the stock drivers from nvidias website, this was about 10 years ago however
This is windows 7 not longhorn, why the heck would it need longhorn drivers lol
90 WATT POWER SUPPLY!!!
You need to reprogram your BIOS with new CPU microcodes. Using Modbin or similar, Plenty of guides online.
Then the 1000mhz will work.
Ian W I approve this message 👍🏻
I think the 1GHz CPU is a newer stepping. Classic Coppermine P3s have 0x0686 CPUID, but this is a newer Coppermine and it should be 0x068A. So, that's exactly what that BIOS needs.
It is possible but I woun't recommend it. Incorrectly modifying the BIOS files can brick the computer. I would only try this on socketed BIOS ROM motherboards.
@@ckingpro Too bad $5 Windows 98 PC doesn't seem to have socketed BIOS chip.
@@TheRealZago Cool. According to that info. He should test the following part numbers: SL4CC, SL4MC, or SL4SD. Those should give 850 or 900MHz. I checked ebay. SL4CC, SL4SD seems the most abundant and a bit lower in price.
I still can't believe you've managed to make 25 full videos on this one computer. Keep up the good work. When I see these videos on my recommended I drop everything to watch it.
Did you check the voltages? If your motherboard doesn't auto-detect it and has it set through jumpers, it could be that the slower processors are rated for 1.65V and that is how the motherboard is set (that 1GHz P3 needs 1.75v). You could also check the BIOS microcodes.
Did you try swearing at it? That might help
Thats what I do. Works every time.
Lol
works every time and sometimes i shoot it in the motherboard
I would snap a RAM stick.
LOL
Surprised it didn't tell you to format /s the disk first to make the disk bootable so it could run the autoexec.bat file
I just got done playing around with a 810E Lomita board. I had a bit more success but that chipset seems super picky. Then seemingly overnight the caps degraded since it's too unstable now so I had to stop. Fun times with old hardware. I am enjoying your series.
Definitely locate a leaked copy of Intel's BIOS management utility for customizing the BIOS image. Dump the working bios and swap the microcode payloads. This does require some additional hex editing with the string resources, too for legal reasons to remove "GenuineIntel" anywhere its found, and most likely changing of the available BIOS options to support these new microcode features. (BIOS Management utility includes a UI editor with flags, hazzah) Intel hates you now, and you have no support, ever, but its worth it.
Too boot from DVD you need to select CD-ROM option within the bios settings. Then choose boot sequence 1 for CD-ROM, boot sequence 2 for floppy drive followed by boot sequence 3 for hard drive.
if you select 'use small icons' or whatever In your taskbar settings you'll have slightly more screen room
This pc is a pure legend. You're doing great. Keep it up Mike!
Thank you!
Wow, you've been quite active lately. Very interesting videos, especially the new 5$ win 98 PC videos. Love from Romania
Yes! Glad to hear you are enjoying the videos. Thanks so much!
Cracking those old OEM systems was a lot of fun in days past, pre-builts is all there was In tgec1980's unless you had access to the parts.
Awesome video,Michael!
Thanks!
After a successful BIOS update (when it boots up again), it's always wise to shut down, unplug the power cord, hold in the computer's power button for 30 seconds, then clear the CMOS. Resetting any electronic device after a (successful) firmware update is always a good idea me thinks.
In the BIOS, there should be no distinction between cd drive and DVD drive. If you manually set your DVD drive (in the ide settings) to be recognized as a cd drive, it'll boot from the dvd drive. The bios you have does not make a distinction between different types of optical drives. If it successfuly booted from your DVD drive in the past, it's likely because the drive was (in the ide settings screen) set to cdrom, instead of 'auto'
the windows xp pro guy on the side of the monitor looks scary when he is in that position 😶
he always looks scary Michael should remove him while doing video on the 5$ PC ;)
@@thespkrYT ya he should lol, his 98 series is not even related to Windows XP Pro. lol
6:55 I think the conclusion here is a bit of a leap and seemingly incorrect. I do not think that it recognizes the drive as a DVDRW drive at all, rather that the device name reported by the drive just so happens to have the string "DVDRW" as part of the name. I would guess that the "Auto" or "CD-ROM" options are the ones most likely to work.
Firstly Thanks for the video's I enjoy it, its a real throwback for me seeing that old hardware.The intel 810 does not support CPU's made on the 0,13 micron (130nm) node only the 0,18 micron (180nm) node which is the node that your current CPU is based on.There are 2 E revisions ,the latter one supports CPU's made on a 0,13 micron node,like the one you mentioned. The Celeron 800Mhz ,900Mhz,950Mhz ,1Ghz and 1.1 Ghz are all based on the same node, all only need a 100Mhz front side bus ,so they may work. They are also PPGA , a very important detail. So just keep that in mind when you see one. Make sure to get a DX9 GPU with atleast 128MB VRAM and above if you want areo, just don't use a Nvidia FX5200 or ATI 9200,9250 those may claim DX9 support,but they don't really.
I have an addiction watching this series for some reason
If you keep upgrading the hardware, this might turn into the ship of Theseus paradox
It wouldn't matter if the bios setting is set as cdrom or removable it is the actual drives firmware. I've ran into that issue before. The bios won't care if it is a DVD or cd in the drive it is how the drive exposes it's self to the bios bootstrapping
Does the cpu work on another board? Are you sure it isn't dead?
The guy who sent it to me said he pulled it from a working system before sending it to me
@@MichaelMJD It could be either tbh, I've had old Socket 370 chips just died out of nowhere, not as much as Athlon Thunderbirds.
TBH it's probably that i810 board in that gateway but tbh, who knows. I've got a 440BX Gateway tower with a 1100mhz P3 on a Slocket and that runs fine and even shows 1100mhz in bios,windows,cpuz etc.
"CD-ROM" is just what the BIOS calls an optical drive. If it's a DVD-ROM drive it should work regardless of what the BIOS calls it.
I have a motherboard with the same chipset. The maximum speed CPU it supports is the P-III 800MHz at the 100MHz bus speed.
Yep it's locked to an 8X multiplier aka 800MHz.
Interesting, but perhaps you want to put that OEM motherboard behind you and use something from the open market with all the BIOS options available.
Why not dumping your current bios and change the microcode? It's way easier :) Or boot into the bios flasher dos, change the bios chip (your pc no longer needs it plugged after booting) and insert another... You will have the old chip if the bios won't work :)))))))))
from personal experience
on intel chopsets such as 440bx or i 810/815 most bioses would boot up if the chipset is the same, what might not work is all the stuff connected to mainbord controller ic , so if the ic is different you may have problems with clock generation, input output devices like ps2 ports or integrated graphic adapter
"cdrom" is universal for legacy optical disc boot discs it should work with cd or dvd
for cpu i still expect power suply being the problem because i had this problem before (celeron is what 11-17W part, pentium is 22-25W part)
i recomand getting post code reader card for deeper troubleshooting
edit
cpu world states black celeron being at around 20W tpd while pentium 3 1000@100 is around 30W and it all draw power from 5V rail if disconecting all hard drives and optical drives won't bring it up it isn't power related because it is just 2A difference and disconecting drives should cover that, still that power suply is dinki
Like I have commented before on your other video, in which you swapped processors (' At 1.04 the processor shown is a 900 Mhz ( 9 x 100 Mhz ) processor and not a 733 ( 5.5 x 133 which btw is 731.5' ) ) the 600 Mhz makes no sense . 6 x 100 Mhz =600 and 6 x 133 Mhz makes 800. So where does the 733 comes from? If it was a 733 it would run 550 with a FSB of 100 (because the multiplier would be 5.5. It is an 810 chipset, right? Can you set the voltage on this mobo? You might be running at 2 Volts, while your newer processor only needs 1.7 volts. You might be overvolting it. Recoding the BIOS might be your only option to run the new(er) processor(s)btw In that period I had an AMD system with a duron. On that processor you could unlock the multiplier with a pencil ( connecting 2 dots ) which I did and could change the multiplier in the BIOS. Ran it 20% faster for free! What further cought my atention is at 7.36 and 10.10 you see Processor Serial Number is set to disabled. Enable that or at least take a look at it. Booting of CD Rom will boot of the DVD ( it did in my old AMD system )
This is a really good series keep up the great work!
Thanks so much!
Michael MJD no problem, the channel is really cool too
Might be a dumb question, but are you 100% sure the 1Ghz CPU actually is working ? It might be a dud.
Oh well that something I did 3 times on my ex XP machine. Started off with a 450 MHz PIII... some years later a 1 GHz CPU needed a BIOS update, and indeed waited on with it until the 1.4 GHz Tualatin appeared. Since this was an S370T CPU, the board needed an apdapter card. Well, the first board (asus P2B) wasn't compatible because of its early voltage regulator. Got my hands on a newer revision and that was voltage-compatible (had a newer regulator for the dualplane voltage supply) and could operate on that CPU after a latest BIOS upgrade indeed. * BIOS : ONLY on 133 MHZ-capable machines you may have the option to change the FSB Speed (or it will simply auto-detect by the present CPU), on machines being designed only for 100 MHz FSB, it cannot be altered. (only "E" CPUs will run there, the 133 MHZ also can carry "EB" CPUs of that PIII/Tualatin era). CPUs which allow to boot are running on their designed clock speed, but for being properly recognized, the BIOS also has to carry the appropriate microcode updates. Otherwise it may show incorrect CPU config information or also "unknown CPU" if an unrecognized CPU is inserted.
I'm watching this video/writing this on Windows 2000! (HP Compaq dc5100 SFF)..... in HD!
wait did you just put the CPU cooler on without any thermal paste or anything...?
Windows 95 in these videos : I'm still useable
Just remove the main crystal besides the PLL and hook a functions generator and start cranking up the MHz. If the bios wont let you overclock, you have to force it :D
You know what I find strange, I have a gateway machine too from 1999, slot 1 PIII 600Mhz (Upgrade I did when I was 25yo-2001), with intel chipset, and it automatically register fsb speeds depending on what speed memory I insert, 100 and 133 will work but at 100 mhz, 133 and 133 I get fsb 133. Also my cpu clock speed if I remember correctly shows up as 500Mhz at post but system properties/Dxdiag/cpu-z, show 600 mhz Genuine Pentium III, I will get this system working to give you more info.
No wait, it is a full size Motherboard with AGP, 6 PCI and 1 shared ISA.. Damn! I guess that is the difference right there, I will still give you the specs and pics when I have them.
.0004 is the older version of your BIOS, it will work after you update the .0004 to .0005 then .0006 then .0007 if it is the way, else you could try to just upgrade from .0004 to .0007 if it is possible, then do this update
Decoding the version
BOARD.BOARDREVISION.BIOSMAJORUPDATEVERSION.BIOSMINORUPDATEVERSION
I'd like to see old versions of GNU/Linux distros running. I know you've done Ubuntu, so what about Red Hat? Arch? etc
that thing would easily run an up to date arch version, it would have to be the unofficial 32Bit version though. The 32Bit version of Linux mint would be funny to watch, it would probably be usable with a better GPU.
The thing is, it's gonna work flawlessly because thare were no models with **.0007.** made. There's a mishit in the *.txt there is intended to be that .0004. in txt file so it's ok edit: throw there stronger psu. I told it in prev. vid that 1Ghz is much more power hungry. The thing is that if there is any compatibility prob., the speaker must beeep. If no beep and black screen i really advice you to throw a stronger psu. The one yoo got is ooold so count with this: whatever wattage it says, take that final number and 3/4 of it it is able to deliver so if your psu is 100 W it is, because of its age, able to deliver about 70-75W max and that IS NOT enough because of the power spike that occurs when you turn the pc on. If it is still not gonna work with stronger psu, there's a possibility that that 1Ghz cpu worx only under 133Mhz and is not able to boot under 100Mhz but i have never seen that issue personally, i just know that it is theoretically possible.
I really wanna see aero working or decent youtube playback on this system. If you do try youtube install h264ify from the chrome store to make youtube run better on older cards.
I got a beige Win98SE PC complete with CRT, mouse, keyboad and an official Win98 key sticker a couple years ago from someone who had it stored for decades, the person was going to just throw it away but i asked if i could keep it. it initially had a 433Mhz CPU and 128MB PC100 RAM. I remember buying a couple socket 370 on ebay for peanuts, one was a 733MHZ and a couple months a 1GHZ one, they both worked as soon as i installed them. I was also able to upgrade RAM to 512MB and even put in a Sound Blaster Live! and a GeForce FX 5200 which just died a week ago, weirdly enough it was working perfectly until i did a reboot, it just stopped working. Gives signal for few minutes then it crashes the system every single time. It was kinda overkill for what i was doing anyway... so i am stuck to the Intel i810 Graphics for the moment, but i do want to get another FX 5200 or something more powerful that is also PCI slot. The GeForce FX 6300 seems like a good replacement, but way more expensive.
Try setting the drive type in the BIOS to CDROM. This might work, even though it does not say DVD.
I have had this work myself before (albeit on another system).
@@0xbenedikt Works on my old dell with a P4, I commented the same thing you did lol.
also try to get your hands on Cyrix / VIA cpu, they should work and they can reach higher clocks.
CPU that makes the computer not post: help me
new CPU: *play xfiles theme*
BIOS Update: here is some power i got from my PSU for you, the new cpu that michael MJD added in
I think it's fun when the clickbait title actually subverts your expectations. "Is 1GHz Possible?" "No! :D"
Probably not worth trying, but an 8 or 900MHz with 100MHz FSB might work. SL4CC, SL4MC, or SL4SD.
I would suggest installing drivers for the GPU. Windows 7 supports REALLY old drivers. I was able to run Win 98 drivers on Win 7.
I usually depends on how they were developed. Probably, VxD audio drivers for Windows 98 won't work on Windows 7 because they rely on the 16-bit part of the kernel.
Enrico Zaghini True, but the Windows 98 GPU drivers are the ones I was able to install on Windows 7. I was also able to get the Windows 98 audio drivers working on my Windows 7 install as well.
I wonder if jumper settings might be wrong cause that will limit the speed if not set correctly the other thing I have had the exact same problem with posting and fixed it by using a different gpu or different ram memory on the board swapping out fast a bunch different ones till I hit the sweet spot sometimes they just don't play nice together thats true even today but it more rare swapping ram also makes the board go thru timings switches till it hits the right one something it may not do using the same ram over and over I have gotten boards to work that were given up on hopelessly hung not posting by simply switching out ram repeatedly and rebooting repeatedly it time consuming process but it sometimes works and holds once configured.
you have to edit the boot config in the bios for it to boot cd's/dvds
witch you seemed to be ignoring that its there 6:40 and fyi the type doesn't mater as long its set for cd
How about reverse engineering the bios to add USB boot and overclocking options. That would make a cool video
wait, this year (2023) contains windows 98's 25th anniversary
I know that Intel made a 850mhz and 900mhz PIII with 100fsb, maybe that will work if u find one? I'm not sure about the 933mhz one though..
PLEASE make Windows 10 look and feel like Windows 7.
Some months later, me browsing in Netflix: "How I changed a $5 PC to an actual home computer"
THAT SOUNDS FAMILIAR!
On the bright side, the BIOS update was succesfull!
I am planning to repurpose my old gaming rig for a "time machine" build, attempting to get Windows 98 running on this Core i5 PC. And i figure my best shot is downgrading the buggy UEFI firmware back to the BIOS firmware. Yup, thats right that PC shipped with a BIOS and got updated to UEFI but the UEFI was never finished and never really stable. The UEFI infact has been so unstable that i have an instance where the BIOS will no longer post just because i installed WIndows in UEFI mode with a NVidia driver. Luckily that mobo had dual bios but it does mean i only have 1 working bios left on that rig.
So my plan of action is to try and overwrite the broken BIOS with a new blank copy so i have a backup again, and then use an unofficial downgrade tool from a form based on Intel's flashing utility instead of gigabytes to forcefully write the BIOS over the UEFI. If succesfull this puts me back in the era of computing i am looking for for that build and will increase my chances to get Windows 98 to run smoothly and possibly even have a rare PC that has a switchable BIOS/UEFI hybrid setup, if unsuccessful its RIP old PC.
I wouldn't worry much about bricking a $5 motherboard
it's prebuilt system. they don't support OC at all. you need modded bios
He’s not trying to overclock.
@@archgirl what I think he means is "off the shelf" boards of the time that only supported 100MHz FSB still allowed the user to run them at 133MHz, but it was considered overclocking.
There are some ways of getting the 1GHZ cpu working with that mobo but unfortunatedly i think the best way is to find a new mobo that could support Pentium 3 with 1GHZ of proccesor speed, you could try some tricks that could make that cpu work with that mobo but if they cant do the trick then its a physical limitation and you cant do anything about it.
For now i think the best update you could do is add a new GPU yes because at least will give you an option to bump up the resolution, not sure if it will work better or if it will make things a bit faster without having a more faster cpu so i cant say it will be a overall improvement but at least will allow you to get Aero and better resolutions, but the cpu could end up bottlenecking the performance of the GPU or it might get you some troubles down the line with lower cpu speeds.
Use the atapi not other
What I want to know is you you managed to even find the BIOS update for this thing. I've never been able to get anything out of the Internet Archive's mirror of the Gateway site.
It's Ascension it knows what you wanted to do
A 133 MHz bus with a 6x multiplier would be 800 MHz, so that theory makes no sense.
Maybe the guy used a modded bios with updated microcode on ebay.
how about a 933mghz chip? that might be as far as you can go. My dual processor wouldn't play with 1ghz but worked ok with the 933,
can you do a video of how to download emulators for homebrew on the wii without a sd card
1 month later:
Updating the 5$ Windows 98 PC with RTX 2070 Super
Can it run Crysis?
There are PCI to PCIE adapters on Ebay, though I suspect the bios firmware on the rtx will be 64bit only
i had a motherboard that had a unsoldered jumper that when shaded in with a pencil would do an fsb of 133 instead of 100 even tho that chipset didnt support 133 it was oddly labeled fsb1 or something like that
Enable "Word Wrap". Whoa. . .
Hope everything works out well
There could be something wrong with that 1000 processor I wonder if I still have some of thoes around...
You Need To Change Jumpers For Config Bus Speed
but can it run crysis
Jumpers son that’s how you change the FSB
probably doesn't have any, it's a low end prebuilt board with an 810 chipset
Yes, but till 100 FSB on this bord.
Is time for new motherboard!
I have a Benq Computer based of Windows Xp and upgraded to windows 10/7
Whats the name of the socket from the CPU l want to know so l can see if celeron cpu from win xp is compatible pls reply soon as possible
also I love the series about this PC it's so interesting
I think you should rather get an sd card drive instead of an ssd so you can swap drives easily
gygabite makes mobos that can do 1ghz and have agp slots too
I bet that "Bryant motherboard" was named after the late Kobe Bryant 😂
Not funny, mean.
@@CTMKD not fax i laughed
I have a Dell Inspiron P-III Mobile 1 GHz/133MHz FSB with a 478 socket and want to upgrade it to a P-4 Mobile. It will not post with the existing BIOS. Is there any hope of getting it to post with the P4 by flashing a BIOS from an upstream Dell computer?
isn't it Socket 479...?
Be careful with the voltage or you might frie a mobile processor.
I made the opposite of the pc u got here, it’s like a 4000 dollar win 98 pc from back in the day with upgrades that only bill gates could afford
Did the bios update also maybe allow higher ram amounts? i don't know it that's really a thing, but maybe...?
UGH... that's sad at there being no new options in bios, but at lest the bios update didn't brick the box.
It may be a dvd drive issue causing the computer to not recognize it as bootable? I dunno.
He needs to set it to CD-ROM, it will work, I've done it on almost every legacy system I've owned. If it doesn't work then its likely an issue with the Drive, or the disks he is using, it could even be the IDE cable.
becarefull don't use wrong bios if you do you say good bye motherboard . I have done it before good thing my motherboard has backup bios
Do a mother board update on the 5$ windows 98 PC
If anybody else is wondering, let me save you a bunch of time -- there is no such thing as "The $5 Windows 98 PC." He just found a Windows 98 PC at the thrift store for $5 once. Don't waste your time Googling to figure out what he's talking about.
Windows Whistler build 2419 on the $5 Win 98??
CD-ROM and DVD for the BIOS is the same
Legacy BIOS will never specify DVD for the drive type. CD always assumed optical media.
BIOS updates can be risky. Just reset the BIOS.
Sooo niceeee
I'd love to see a ZIP drive replace the floppy drive. Who needs a 256GB micro SD card when you can have a whopping 250MB ZIP disk?
I know that you've already made a video on that but how about trying to update the RAM to 1 GB? I assume that the RAM modules are DDR type, and finding 2x512 MB sticks is pretty easy....are they supported, however, or 512 MB is the maximum no matter what?