I'm a kinesiology major and I've delved into motor learning and have pondered a lot of meta-learning strategies and theory. So the phenomena you're referring to around 9:15 where you posit the question: "should you be thinking while playing?" has been explored in a particular model in motor learning by Fitts and Posner. According to this model, learning can be divided into three general stages: 1, the cognitive stage, 2 the associative stage, and 3, the autonomous stage. The progressive stages of learning are categorized by *decreased* levels of attentional resources to executing technique. In the cognitive stage, large amounts of attentional resources are allocated to thinking about what to do (declarative knowledge). In the associative stage, less amounts of attentional resources are allocated to thinking about what to do, and instead, attentional resources begin to allocate towards relevant environmental cues-- opponents are part of the environment! Lastly, the autonomous stage is what the name suggests. Very little atttentional resources are allocated to thinking about what to do, and rather, attentional resources are allocated to relevant strategies, or no thinking is done at all. One vital aspect of this model that my professor highlighted is that most people don't actually reach the third stage for most skills. It is highly logical of you to note the anecdoctal experiences of high level players. These players have reached a very high level of autonomous execution. As melee is quite nuanced, sometimes it may be hard to fully grasp how much of a difference there is in their tech skill and yours. Professional melee players play the game like a full time job, and their muscle memory, metabolic and neural adaptations afford these players fluid, precise, option selection. I fully agree with the notion that you must know the solutions beforehand, and practice them enough so that they become automatic. Often, at tournaments, noobs will ask me what they should do, and truthfully, honestly, and perhaps brutally, I tell them that they just need to focus on tech skill and punish game first, then specific strategies can be applied. If you watch your vods and you notice a pattern in your neutral, you can specifically tackle those issues by practicing variations in your offense and defense. In 12:50 where you begin to discuss what to do if you are stuck with a set of habits, I agree with the advice you gave where you mentioned that you should engage in deliberate practice executing different options. Using some kinesiology-lingo, this strategy/practice condition is simply referred to as variable practice. Variable practice is defined as practicing several skills or variations of one skill in one session. This is contrasted with constant practice, where you practice a single skill or single variation. These ideas come from the overarching concept of "practice conditions" which I highly recommend anyone to look at if you're interested in organizing/periodizing your learning in any field, especially melee. :) ♥
Wow, what a cool comment! Nice to know that it sounds like a lot of the stuff I am advocating for is backed by more than just my own experience, and a consistent story I’ve heard from tons and tons of pro gamers at this point. Cool!
This is a fantastic breakdown, and I love the casual style and examples! I feel like I've been working on a lot of these concepts with varying degrees of structure and intentionality, and this video helped shift my perspective for practicing them! Shoutouts to June for that great habit tip! That's an incredibly frustrating feeling and I want to add that I feel like I see it happen more the more emotionally involved/upset the player is (both from me and people I play). So not only something for me to look out for in lower level players, but also wondering if building the skill of breaking muscle memory could help me think clearer and calm down. Anyway, I've been a big fan of the educational content lately!
Reads are not only a very important skill to understand, but are also some of the best feeling and most fun aspects of playing. I don't think I'll ever get bored of reading Falco players' buffer spotdodge with an upsmash
@@gantzfanatic444 why would smn want to embarass themself with a comment like that.. this tutorial is obviously very good. you should just start trying to get better with it rather than doing this weird hater thing. trust me
Omg my entire life I've been playing this and have basically been guessing the whole time. Back in the old school days I still remember people saying "you just need more mind games" and that was that lol. Thank you so much for this info
thank you for this informational video. i've been struggling with predictability and this has given me a better visual on how to improve on that. also the very specific situations helped me realize what i should be doing in those scenarios.
what an amazing collection of experience, condensed into a video that will help people finally start speaking melee. Sadly I had nothing to learn, but it is such a precise collection of points it amazed me.
As someone that mainly plays PM and some traditional fighters I feel like this video still helped me a whole lot! You can really apply most of what you say regarding reads to any fighting game. Thanks!
This is a very valuable video, thank your for putting things so clearly. And props for explaining complex concepts in such long takes while adding gameplay live to give visual aid. That's not easy to do.
One of the benefits of doing melee commentary is that it does kind of feed into the UA-cam stuff as well. Getting good at speaking as clearly and succinctly as possible in a fast game like melee ends up translating to making clear and concise videos. On the flip side, thinking about melee and scripting it out helps refine my ideas that I then bring to top 8 blocks :)
Algo bump. "llod's guide to improvement"* _does_ cover reads but by expanding the vocabulary to include "prediction confirmation." That said, there is not enough discussion on this topic, let alone about how to improve at it. *Probably one of the best general/abstract/character-agnostic guides ever.
11:07 no matter what game you're really playing, it's likely better to look at your opponent anyway. you should always beware of what you're up to, yes, but you really need to focus on the opponent and rely on what your hands and peripheral vision say in order to figure out what's going on with you. if you're doing this new, then it's gonna be a hot minute before you get it down, but i've learned to do that from a very young age in smash bros & it helps me compete with friends a lot, so i can say it's 100% worth it.
There was a person in my school's esports league, who despite playing for over 2 years, never actually improved. to show that him, mid match I just started calling out everything he was going to do right before he did them. He still has not actually improved though
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm a kinesiology major and I've delved into motor learning and have pondered a lot of meta-learning strategies and theory. So the phenomena you're referring to around 9:15 where you posit the question: "should you be thinking while playing?" has been explored in a particular model in motor learning by Fitts and Posner.
According to this model, learning can be divided into three general stages:
1, the cognitive stage, 2 the associative stage, and 3, the autonomous stage.
The progressive stages of learning are categorized by *decreased* levels of attentional resources to executing technique. In the cognitive stage, large amounts of attentional resources are allocated to thinking about what to do (declarative knowledge). In the associative stage, less amounts of attentional resources are allocated to thinking about what to do, and instead, attentional resources begin to allocate towards relevant environmental cues-- opponents are part of the environment! Lastly, the autonomous stage is what the name suggests. Very little atttentional resources are allocated to thinking about what to do, and rather, attentional resources are allocated to relevant strategies, or no thinking is done at all. One vital aspect of this model that my professor highlighted is that most people don't actually reach the third stage for most skills.
It is highly logical of you to note the anecdoctal experiences of high level players. These players have reached a very high level of autonomous execution. As melee is quite nuanced, sometimes it may be hard to fully grasp how much of a difference there is in their tech skill and yours. Professional melee players play the game like a full time job, and their muscle memory, metabolic and neural adaptations afford these players fluid, precise, option selection.
I fully agree with the notion that you must know the solutions beforehand, and practice them enough so that they become automatic. Often, at tournaments, noobs will ask me what they should do, and truthfully, honestly, and perhaps brutally, I tell them that they just need to focus on tech skill and punish game first, then specific strategies can be applied. If you watch your vods and you notice a pattern in your neutral, you can specifically tackle those issues by practicing variations in your offense and defense.
In 12:50 where you begin to discuss what to do if you are stuck with a set of habits, I agree with the advice you gave where you mentioned that you should engage in deliberate practice executing different options. Using some kinesiology-lingo, this strategy/practice condition is simply referred to as variable practice. Variable practice is defined as practicing several skills or variations of one skill in one session. This is contrasted with constant practice, where you practice a single skill or single variation. These ideas come from the overarching concept of "practice conditions" which I highly recommend anyone to look at if you're interested in organizing/periodizing your learning in any field, especially melee.
:) ♥
Wow, what a cool comment!
Nice to know that it sounds like a lot of the stuff I am advocating for is backed by more than just my own experience, and a consistent story I’ve heard from tons and tons of pro gamers at this point.
Cool!
Thank you, Kanye. Very cool 👍
This is a fantastic breakdown, and I love the casual style and examples! I feel like I've been working on a lot of these concepts with varying degrees of structure and intentionality, and this video helped shift my perspective for practicing them! Shoutouts to June for that great habit tip! That's an incredibly frustrating feeling and I want to add that I feel like I see it happen more the more emotionally involved/upset the player is (both from me and people I play). So not only something for me to look out for in lower level players, but also wondering if building the skill of breaking muscle memory could help me think clearer and calm down. Anyway, I've been a big fan of the educational content lately!
Reads are not only a very important skill to understand, but are also some of the best feeling and most fun aspects of playing. I don't think I'll ever get bored of reading Falco players' buffer spotdodge with an upsmash
Incredible video! Especially impressed with using specific examples to make abstract concepts more digestible. Well done!
Radar single handedly skilling the entire Melee community up. At least thats how good I think this video is/will be for everyone. Thanks Radar.
Ya advice from some rando bozo who’s never competed in his life lmao 💀
@@gantzfanatic444 why would smn want to embarass themself with a comment like that.. this tutorial is obviously very good. you should just start trying to get better with it rather than doing this weird hater thing. trust me
Omg my entire life I've been playing this and have basically been guessing the whole time. Back in the old school days I still remember people saying "you just need more mind games" and that was that lol. Thank you so much for this info
thank you for this informational video. i've been struggling with predictability and this has given me a better visual on how to improve on that. also the very specific situations helped me realize what i should be doing in those scenarios.
what an amazing collection of experience, condensed into a video that will help people finally start speaking melee. Sadly I had nothing to learn, but it is such a precise collection of points it amazed me.
As someone that mainly plays PM and some traditional fighters I feel like this video still helped me a whole lot! You can really apply most of what you say regarding reads to any fighting game. Thanks!
This is a very valuable video, thank your for putting things so clearly. And props for explaining complex concepts in such long takes while adding gameplay live to give visual aid. That's not easy to do.
One of the benefits of doing melee commentary is that it does kind of feed into the UA-cam stuff as well. Getting good at speaking as clearly and succinctly as possible in a fast game like melee ends up translating to making clear and concise videos.
On the flip side, thinking about melee and scripting it out helps refine my ideas that I then bring to top 8 blocks :)
This video is super valuable. Thank you, Radar!
Algo bump.
"llod's guide to improvement"* _does_ cover reads but by expanding the vocabulary to include "prediction confirmation." That said, there is not enough discussion on this topic, let alone about how to improve at it.
*Probably one of the best general/abstract/character-agnostic guides ever.
Also, Radar posting again? We're so back
I’ve actually done a couple videos in the last few months! Got a couple in the pipeline too
@@Radarssbm Hell yeah! I'll check them out
It’s crazy how relevant this is in all plat fighters. Thanks radar!
My latest video is the same, very relevant across all games!
Good work radar!!
Sick manga collection in the back
Amazing video!! Gave me some really good ideas for practicing! Pls more great tutorials!!! :3
i really appreciate these informative and densely detailed videos.
11:07 no matter what game you're really playing, it's likely better to look at your opponent anyway. you should always beware of what you're up to, yes, but you really need to focus on the opponent and rely on what your hands and peripheral vision say in order to figure out what's going on with you. if you're doing this new, then it's gonna be a hot minute before you get it down, but i've learned to do that from a very young age in smash bros & it helps me compete with friends a lot, so i can say it's 100% worth it.
Yoo new radar vid!!
This is exactly the kind of video i want. Thank you
One of your best videos
There was a person in my school's esports league, who despite playing for over 2 years, never actually improved. to show that him, mid match I just started calling out everything he was going to do right before he did them. He still has not actually improved though
HA
9:24 "Don't listen to English in your head"
this was AWESOME
Great vid
good video thanks.
Aaaah, the only important Skill I ever truly mastered. Well explained my man.
I’ve played my best in a state where I don’t focus on entirely on each character, but almost in between them.. almost like I’m zoned out
Fellow Vagabond enjoyer
“Just guess right”
you guess and sometimes you guess right, it's not that complicated tbh
okay
you just need to work on your mindgames