Free EV Charging Sucks!
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- Опубліковано 12 лип 2024
- Yes, free electric vehicle charging programs suck! Why? Well, basically these free charging incentives mean people that don't need to use public DC fast chargers are doing so - all the time.
That means the stations are getting clogged up and are not accessible for the people that really need them - those that can't charge at home and those that are on long drives and need to charge to reach their destinations. In this video, I explain the problem and offer solutions.
This video is powered by Qmerit, North America’s leading provider of installation services for EV charging, home energy storage, and other electrification technologies. See how Qmerit is making the energy transition easy for home and business owners: qmerit.com/ev/charge
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:11 Explaining the issue
5:17 How do I know the people charging are only there because it's free?
13:23 Are the networks like Electrify America and EVgo to blame?
16:30 The free EV charging plans offered today
21:03 The OEMs need to start offering other sales incentives
24:03 Summary
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6 years ago, I frequently used unlimited Tesla supercharging because Massachusetts rates were so high. FREE felt so good. But, within a year I discovered my time was worth more than the savings. Now, on Tesla #2, I always charge at home and love the convenience.
Right that’s what I’m saying. Electricity bought at home is so cheap I’m not spending 45-1hr charging every few days. I spend $65k on a car I can swing the $20-30 a month
@@slscamg Well said. Many people significantly undervalue their time and are blinded by something free. They must consider two way travel plus time at DC Fast charger.
I saw the same thing to people. What is your time worth? I don’t want to sit in n a parking lot for 90 minutes when I could be home or doing something else. Saving that few bucks just isn’t worth it in the end.
@Matthew Sahd I agree; that's the boat I'm in, too. The only thing I can think of is these people (edit: who could charge at home but don't) must be in areas where electricity is like $0.45 / kwh or something stupid where it's basically the same price per week as gasoline. In such places, owning an electric car must be more of a status symbol or virtue signal, so people must _like_ spending that time out being seen with their eco-friendly vehicle. Or something like that. Otherwise, why do it?
if only people knew how big oil with squish electric to maintain there business,,, hint look up what happened to Stanley Meyer and call hydrogen powered cars that run on water bs...
they KILLED HIM to keep it secret... soo if it dooesnt work, why woulf they have a man killed for his invention (the Joe cell, making hydrogen on demand from WATER poassible to run a voltswagon buggy. ps ppl, remeber on the American Bill it says Trust No one.. I believe thats a hint not to trust THEM
I purchased a new Audi Q4, which came with free Electrify America credits. I live in the Bridgewater, NJ, area.
I experienced long waiting times and witnessed rage from EV drivers fighting for a spot to charge.
I installed a Level 2 charger at home, and my view of EVs completely changed; I never charge my car passed 80%. Typically leave it in the range of 40% to 70% and never think about the range or state of charge of my car.
I can now precondition my vehicle before I leave in the mornings, and even with cold weather, I am still averaging 3.2 or higher kWh consumption, which gives me a solid range if I need it.
Dealers should just offer free charging… at their dealerships
Charge stations are so packed!! They keep selling more EV’s but barely increasing the amount of charging stations. Some people are fast charging at popular times just out of boredom. They don’t have to be to work soon and not even close to low battery. Some even LEAVE their vehicle on a 350KW charger in the MIDDLE of the day. Not to mention the prototype/testing vehicles from Ford, Rivian, GMC etc that just sit there doing diagnostics. They have nowhere to be they’re literally being paid to effectively block that charger from being used.
Great video Tom! I think discounted rates or home charging installations are the best options and they promote charging at home whenever possible!
I would prefer the home charger discount, as wanting to charge at a public charger defeats half the joy of owning an EV. I would get a lot more benefit from the auto maker paying for my home EVSE.
100% I would have absolutely preferred if I was offered a free level 2 charger or a home charging installation credit instead of two years of free 30-minute charging. When I first got the car I tried to use it all the time because it was free but having to wait 50% of the time that I go to electrify America makes it not worth it, so I don't use it anymore. So basically the offer is useless to me now so I really got nothing.
TThat's true for your first BEV what about your second or third?
They could offer something like a free home charging station at a discounted install price, or say a limited number of DC fast charging sessions at cost, where they are only charged the local electrical time of use rate and any penalties for loitering past the 80% charge, and the typical charging company fees are waived. In truth DC fast charging stations should charge only up to 80%, stop then start charging a time scaled penalty after sitting for ten minutes. Then have separate spaces with some high power Level 2 chargers for folks who need to get to 100% for some reason since DC chargering essentially throttled to that level eventually anyway, and a DC charger is freed up for someone who needs it.
You probably don't need it,but I do
Manufacturers could include a FREE EA pass + membership, of course that's only $48 a year, but that way people save 25% on every charge...
Given the number of ID.4s that I see fast charging to 100 percent I'd be very skeptical of a used ID.4 three years from now given such hard charging battery degradation. As an alternative example, I received 1,000 kWh of free EA charging with my EV6 and that's led me to only fast charge on road trips. At home it's always 80 percent overnight, which is the vast majority of my charging.
I only learned about charging to 80% and why from your videos. Most new EV buyers probably think to charge to 100% because that is what they did with their ICE vehicle. I also agree that if the EV manufactures do not expand the network (other than Tesla) this will be a train reck.
John K.: If they'd bother to consult their owner's manual, I'd be VERY surprised if it doesn't have recommendations for the best practices for battery type X.
80% is likely much better for almost all normal LION batteries. 90% might be acceptable for LFP given their longer life and better tolerance of charging, though more like 80% is likely optimal for battery life though.
Of course, in the modern era, who can be bothered to even look at the main maintenance items for a new car when the average transaction price is now north of $40,000? /s
almost every EV I've had or had to charge, basically by default has the target charge to 80%
Technically the best thing for a gas car is to charge to only 25% for best range per gallon. EV should come defaulted to show full at 80% with the option to charge past that hidden in the setting. Would solve a lot of issues
@@ericandes4288 That reminds me when I was first looking for work after graduation - this one company made software for calculating fuel requirements on planes. As the guy explained it, by carrying too much fuel, you increase the weight of the plane and thus increase the fuel consumption - so the plane is literally wasting its own fuel. So they did calculations for the right amount of fuel based on range, weight and other conditions. I didn't get anything out of it, but I always remember his description.
@@rogergeyer9851 As soon as I purchased my EV I set the charging level to 80%. Every EV owner should do the same.
You’re absolutely right about this. I can’t charge at home so my only choices are EA or EVGo stations. Almost every time I go to an electrify America station here in California, it’s full or half the chargers are broken. I always see a bunch of ID4s sitting there charging to 100% because it’s free.
Tom you missed the elephant in the room, Electrified America and Canada do not enforce idle fees, so it appears from what you and Kyle have noticed are plugged up chargers with charging sessions are ended and no additional idle fees are getting charged! Come on Electrified America and Electrified Canada, enforce the idle charges to free up these limited access chargers we currently have!
Absolutely! That'll get some ID.4's & Ionic 5's off the chargers till 100% too. Your right Tom totally misses that also EA said they were going to do just that with idle fees they need to enforce them exactly.
Tesla not only charges idle fees if the Supercharger station is more than half full they set your charge limit to 80% so that a slow charging car doesn't hog the Supercharger. If you really need more than 80% then you can adjust to max level back but that takes a positive action on your part. EA clearly doesn't know what they are doing, while they are figuring things out they should just blindly do whatever Tesla does because Tesla has already figured it out.
Great points. I've owned an EV for about 4 months now. I don't even have a L2 charger at home, I wanted to see if I really needed one. I can recoup my daily commute no problem on a L1 charger at 1.3Kw rate. Anyone with a garage shouldn't be tying up public chargers unless they are on a road trip. People in apartments who don't have the option to charge at their home are the ones who need this infrastructure.
You can normally charge 60 miles per night in the US with a regular plug, double in Europe.
You don't need more than that, or maybe you need more every few years ..
Spot on! Dealers should offer home charging stations or installation because home charging is such more convenent
I agree. We have two ev’s one has unlimited charging for a couple years. We however, only fast charge on trips out of town.
Our Mach e’s came with 250 and 500 kWh of free charging. We only use it on road trips. It works well for us as we can charge at home.
I think a cap is a good solution as it rewards the purchase of the EV, but makes it a limited resource that’s needs to be conserved.
I got a 250 kW with my lightning and blew through it pretty quickly. I only have one charger running at my house right now for three EVs due to construction. I’m charging it right now for that reason at an EA charger and the woman next to me is charging her ID4 for free and she plugged in at 65% so I don’t really think she needed to charge.
Tom,
I’ll add a vote for a different type of plan. Let’s get the makers did what GM is doing with Bolt sales. Subsidize installs of Level 2 Charging at the new EV owners home. It could be seen as an essential part of having an EV and included, depending on your point of view.
Great idea, I like that.
I going on a coast to coast road trip this summer in my VW ID4 just because it free charging for me. Retired so I have all the time in the world to wait if I have to. If it wasn't free I wouldn't be doing it. So Tom you are right.
Have fun!
I believe this is a case where more level 2 chargers where people live...apartments, condos, homes...would take significant pressure off the urban and suburban DC fast charging network. I think most people with free fast charging options would be happy to pay for local overnight charging rather than sit on a DC fast charger, with some exceptions like retired folks and super budget oriented EV drivers. There is definitely some opportunity here for some creative level 2 EVSE sharing on a neighborhood level.
Yes yes yes, many are obsessed with DC fast, more expensive, harder on the battery
We need to invet in level 2 charging in every parking lot in America!
@@justinstewart3248 you have my vote
@@justinstewart3248 The one mall at my area (10-15 away from my home) offers 2h free charging @ L2. But still they have only 4 L2 chargers in that mall and it's a fairly big mall in terms of parking spaces. It's a great conversation starter too - one guy with the Tesla charging next to me chatted with me about his car and he wanted to see what my Bolt looked like inside.
I was a diehard EV owner for 5 years, most recently had an ID4 with 3 years of unlimited free charging, and now I own a Prius Prime because of this issue. My last two road trips were miserable. It wasn't worth it anymore. It's a shame.
Why not switch to a Tesla instead of Prius?
@@Vxvx22 I'm a 2x previous Tesla owner.... Not really interested.
@@Matt-Ionman what u don't like about Tesla?
@@Vxvx22 there's plenty that I miss, but I was really disappointed in the ride quality of my Model Y and just quality overall. I had a Model 3 first and loved it, but quality was still an issue. I'll probably end up picking up a used one at some point. I don't want a Tesla that I feel like I need to keep really nice because I paid a lot for it, I want it to be the dirtiest but best old beater I've had. If I can find one in the next year under $30k with a reasonable amount of miles I'll probably do that, then I'll feel like the price point justifies the quality.
@@Matt-Ionman Suspension for Tesla Model Y and 3 were changed to more comfortable one since November of last year. Basically the 2023 model year has the new suspension.
Also, some youtube video suggests the latest Tesla quality in US is quite good.
Thanks for the important commentary. I have two years of free charging (BMW), but I would happily trade that for more reliable and available DCFC stations.
Absolutely right Tom, thanks for bringing this up. My wife would go out of her way to DC charge her 120k$!Taycan because it was free. She wasn’t happy about it but finally stopped after much urging on my end. Major catastrophe coming, I hope it’s not too late.
Let alone the extra degradation from abusing that.
I see a lot of Taycan owners doing the same. $150,000 car and they'll sit there for 40 minutes to save $12.00. It's nuts. Most Taycan owners live in private homes where they can conveniently charge while they are sleeping. SMH
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney
Your RANT is spot done, point taken👍. Glad I purchased a Tesla, only because of their charging locations and availability.
I agree 100%! I have an EV6 with a 1k kwh with EA, and knowing that it is a finite amount, I ONLY use EA when on road trips.
I agree. I am an Ioniq 5 owner and my wife and I charge at home except when on the road. We do use EA in that case, as Ioniq 5 "reservation holders" we have three years of EA charging, a special case.
ONE CORRECTION however: Our "plan" is for unlimited 30-minute sessions. We have "gone over the limit" exactly once. It cost us a few cents as we went over by like a minute. We welcome EA enforcing the limitations on that plan, charging after 30 minutes is up (our charge speed makes that time absolutely plenty unless the chargers are acting up.) AND I'd like to see them start to enforce the "One hour between sessions" rule that they seem to be ignoring, like the idle fees are ignored, to everyone's chagrin.
Other than that, agreed completely. And we call on everyone to consider others who might be waiting when charging. I also call on EA to enforce strictly both our charge limits AND THE NOW-IGNORED IDLE FEES!
On the same note, we need a way to instantly deal with ICING. We have run into that a time or two in the last year of ownership. When they install the charger location, they should arrange an agreement with a local towing service. Proper signage would deal with potential smarta$$es pretty effectively, I'd bet.
As long as manufactures and dealers can continue to sell EVs they will not change their behavior.
Yeah, the also don't care if you get to a gas station and there is a half mile long line. Not their problem.
@@davidmccarthy6061 Congress is broke until 2025 at the earliest, but we need mandates. Anyone selling EVs needs to start funding chargers to support their sales. Selling an EV with no adequate places to charge is a massive bait and switch against consumers.
Absolutely spot on. I see this behavior every time I travel and it does ruin the experience for those just trying to get from point a to point b.
Very good points, Tom... but the thought of FREE is difficult to get out of your head. Your optional suggestions would help if the manufacturers were to implement them! Great video.
Totally agree with this.
You got it. When my 2023 F150 Lightning arrives, I'll promptly use my free 250 kWh and then always charge at home.
I agree with this, but I will say that on my way from the Midwest to the bay area, I stopped in Sparks, NV and all the chargers were in use. I got out of my car and a Ionic5 owner saw me and offered to unplug so I could charge. I think the folks with unlimited charging can be sensitive to people road tripping like myself. Much appreciated.
Kevin Hickman: Nice, but sadly, unless someone is in real distress, few people (we're ALL busy) will tend to be so nice, in my experience.
@@rogergeyer9851 I understand - but I think that most folks with unlimited free charging don't wait to get to the bottom half of the battery prior to charging, so it a fairly minor inconvenience to unplug and charge later. If that's not the case, then charge what you need and move on. The folks I know who have Ionic 5s, only need about 5 minutes or so to top off. I know not all the cars listed charge that fast, so your mileage may vary.
Excellent video Tom! Weak EV charging infrastructure will damage adoption efforts. I believe auto manufacturers will pivot to create their own infrastructure such as Mercedes-Benz that only band-aids the public charging weakness. The public charging infrastructure still suffers will possible manufacturer proprietary charging connectors for their dedicated vehicles. Tesla, in my opinion, introduced the EV correctly will vehicle manufacturing and building of the charging infrastructure in parallel. The availability of charges and their reliability is why I recently ordered a Model Y. Thanks for the detailed reporting that confirms my purchase decision.
Spot on Tom. The manufacturers would be better off partnering with someone to install Level 2 chargers nears condo's or apartments. In the Bay Area, a lot of public schools & community centers have level 2 charging in their parking lots. It's great solution since the parking lots are otherise not in use overnight.
Thats what Tesla did, they gave out Level 2 “Destination” chargers for free to businesses to help fill in the gaps away from interstates. 1-2 hours of charge is enough to get you back to a fast charger.
@@GROGU123 "get you back to a fast charger" isn't the right idea? Should be trying to do all charging on Level-2...?
@@matthewprather7386 Except when you are on an extended road trip.
LH: The government should be incenting gas stations to (gradually overall) convert a section of their pumps to EV chargers. They already have the perfect real estate, network, customers who know where they are, etc. It would be a natural evolution and could only help the transition.
And as the BEV transition progresses, once the ball is rolling, they might not even need to offer incentives to get lots of this, as the economics is going to become VERY obvious as the trend for new ICE sales is down and overall EV sales is up.
If I had a PHEV with 50 or so miles of range, as little as I drive as a retiree, I might just stop at such a place once or twice a week to charge, but very infrequently for gas. Or if I had a BEV, maybe once every couple weeks to charge and not even mess with home charging -- but ONLY if it were convenient and reliable.
I AGREE! I even wrote those very words in article for InsideEVs about 10 years ago. You know what they say about great minds....
Tom, I totally agree with. you. I have a '21 ID.4. I only have used the free charging a handful of times. At the beginning I was testing and on a major road trip. I have the advantage of charging at home and find that is the solution that works best. The actual costs don't amount to much. I hate to see charges clogged up.
Thank you!
Thanks for calling this out. Crazy idea and is killing the EV ownership experience when road tripping.
Not really, the only chargers that are important are those along highways. Nobody drives 100 miles to the middle on nowhere just to use their free charging.
Great topic, Tom. Totally agree about home charger install bundle with a new EV or the option of discounted rate if you already have a home charger. I don't think the manufacturers thought this through. But they also need to put pressure on the charging companies to get installing.
Totally agree. I have stopped by the Mills at Jersey gardens a number of times on my road trips and it is always full, few chargers are always broken, and most of the time available ones are taken up by locals taking advantage of free charging. I really like the idea of getting a 1000 or so KWh for free as an incentive.
Yup, I own a 22 Ioniq 5. They paid for 2 years of EA. I have been to their sites about ten times on long distance trips. I get tired of seeing Chevy Bolts tied up to 350kw chargers for an hour while their owners go shopping. Home charging is much more pleasant and way more dependable.
Tom, I am afraid you are right. Just reading some of the comments here, I see many that feel it is OK to occupy the charger to 100% because they paid for it. They could be curtious but sounds many wouldn't. I fear for EV adoption because of those with this attitude. Tesla has the same problem but they keep their chargers operational and add more if needed. EA doesn't seem to want to do this. EVGo just recently switched to per/kwh from per/min. This was OK in places like the south where it is warm but in cold climates it ripped people off. Cold temps mean slower charging. Slower charging meant they made more money. I have had discussions with management and they didn't care. We need more EV charging companies to step up with quality charging stations. Congress should pass a law to mandate all EV charging should be billed on energy delivered. Automakers should not offer free charging.
They'd be better off to offer what GM offered with the 2022 Bolt where they'd pay for you to install a 240V plug at your garage. I took advantage of that and it was great.
Another great video, Tom. We just put down a deposit on an i4 and learned that BMW’s EA plan now requires you to wait 30 min before you start your next free 30 min session. Given that there are 2 EA stations within a 20 mile radius of my home, we’re planning on primarily doing level 2 at home.
Excellent video Tom every EA location I’ve been to had at least 2 to 4 ID4s either charging or lined up to top their vehicles to 100%
Great video with some great points! When I purchased my Ioniq 5, the first thing I did was shop around for a level 2 to install in my garage. Free charging at EA is not a big enough incentive for me to pass up charging at home. It's fun for road trips, but I only do about two a year anyway. I just never have to think about filling my car up. LOL!
Depends on where you are. In some places, electricity is expensive, so getting a free charge is quite attractive.
Tom I think you are spot on. I think non Tesla owners who have to depend on the DC charge networks and aren’t charging at home are often left frustrated and questioning their decision to go to EV which means instead of encouraging other adopters is going to slow their conversion
Alden Hutchison: For homeowners who have an easy CHOICE (like using their garage), that's an easy problem to fix if they're annoyed. And one which should pay for itself within a year or two at most for people who drive normal distances or close.
But for many apartment dwellers, etc, they don't have that easy choice. WAY too many landlords only focus on their costs, and won't upgrade things like heating or AC, unless it affects THEM instead of the tenants. So I simply don't see them providing a reasonable number of DC charging stations unless forced by regulation.
@@rogergeyer9851 I agree with you that apartments and condos create another challenge all together. I'm in a condo in downtown Chicago and am getting a quote tomorrow for an EV charger in my garage. If it's even possible to do. I'm also working with the HOA board on options for chargers in some common parking areas that all tenants can use. We are going to investigate putting in chargers that charge slightly more than the cost of electricity so that the HOA can recoup the cost of the install as well as potentially collect money that can be used for maintenance of the buildings. Will see how it goes
@@ahutchis1 Might be interesting to be talking a HOA into a 5 or 10 year payback on lets call it 120 feet of conduit and a very cheap fast charger at 25k plus a Chicago parking space at 40k to own. To pay back the 65k the charger has to net 10k per year if the HOA already pays for power at a commercial rate for everything else in a modern condo complex. Users downtown chicago have many options at very competive rates because of state and federal largess. The HOA is unlikely to see a dime in profit until year 6 if you can even hit 5 or 6 users throwing away 600 bucks per year. Being downtown those cars dont drive a commute more than 60 miles a day, the need for a private fast charger is overstated. The car shuffle between 5:30-9:30PM would be dibs epic for one or two spots on the fastest of moden chargers.
The problem is everyone wants to reap profits from the functionality of a smart wall plug, a transit path for a enegy flow from ComEds power plants to x number of cars per day. Presenting a charger as a profit center will turn anyone with a sence of numbers away immdiatly, unless 40% current residents are already parking their EVs nightly.
What you are looking is for 6 parking spots with 20A 120V service for home chargers on the wall, and bicycle hooks and Velcro to keep everything neat. Each car can be connected for 14 hours a day and mostly will charge at 10KW/hr, 8 to 20 hours to full charge a EV. That installation runs $1500 per parking spot if they are all grouped together. A new building this is trival, getting people to move their assigned or titled parking spot is just epic amounts of bullshit.
Collecting more than 5c/KWH is just going to get the charger owner more hate mail long term.
If they are going to go free, I think it should be the first 20-30 minutes (depending on how long it takes a car to get from 10-80%). While a kwh limit is better then no limit for 2-3 years, a per charge time limit would be best at keeping cars moving.
Some already have a cap of 30 minutes. Tom addressed that as no different an issue because owners unplug and restart with a new session. If there was a way of setting up a Cooldown period between starting sessions, the free 30 minutes would work.
For the VW plan I have, there is a cooldown period of 1 hour between 30 minute free sessions.
Well said! I hope the manufacturers start to get it soon!
This may be the most thought-out and reasoned video on EV charging. It is spot-on and I thank you for it.
Great points you brought up. I have an ID.4 and at the time(2years ago) the free charging was great. I only charged at Electify America for 1 year. It's was great, yes it was awful at times. I started to notice more and more cars showing up at the stations I would frequent then the que would start to be a normal thing. I ended up installing home charging unit and use super chargers on road trips. I would plan trips on off times to avoid ques, and would go to 90%, that would be an extra 5-10 mins longer and never would do 100% out of etiquette. The system cannot handle this and its only a matter of time before its totally obvious.
Thank you!
Finally someone talked about this topic.
Tom is right on the money and by money I mean most EV owners I have talked to that have free charging say they are going to use it and not spend the $5 it costs to charge once a week at home, they say free charging was one of the incentives that led them to buying an EV. My EV6 came with 1000kwh of free charging expiration in 3 years which I will only use if I’m on a road trip. It’s not worth $5 for me to go out and wait while charging all though my EV6 charges 10 to 80 percent in 22 minutes and chatting with other EV owners is quite a nice experience. I have used it twice in 9 months first time just for the learning experience and second time to clear up a problem with my app. Once all these free charging sessions run out most CCS charging stations will free up. One comment that made a lot of sense was for all the EV dealerships to offer their charging incentives to be used at their specific dealership brand nation wide.
Thanks for another informative video Tom. You're absolutely right And things have to change on the free charging.
Thanks for this great video, Tom! I agree with everything you said. We have a '23 ID.4 and take advantage of the free 30 minute sessions on trips only. We have Level 2 charging in our garage and the convenience is priceless to me.
Great point, thanks. It reminds me of the experience that my sister in law conveyed to me. She was interested in a Tesla Model Y last year. She drove by a Supercharger site and saw the line of cars waiting for an available unit. This was in W. Palm Beach. She has a garage, but that experience gave her the feeling that her Tesla would be inconvenient for long trips that she would need from time to time. So, she never bought the car. I have had my Bolt for over 2 years and never changed away from home. My fear is pulling up to a charging station with 20% left, and the charger(s) doesn't work. It may be 50-100 miles to the next station. So, I use my ICE vehicle for distances beyond the 200 mile round trip that the Bolt can do without a "on the road refill". I'm sure that I'm not alone with that scenario.
Yeah your right on Tom. The OEM EV makers don’t care about the charging network because they focus on cars only. Tesla has thought about this since the beginning!
Great video, Tom, and very valid point. I know you didn't want to talk about it in this particular video but another BIG problem with public chargers from Electrify America and EVGo is reliability. Many of them are broken and don't work at all and many that do "work" don't delivery anywhere near the charging rate that they're supposed to which of course means you need to charge for longer to reach your desired state of charge. You just don't experience those problems with the Tesla Supercharger network. Their chargers are reliable and since there are so many of them, if you do happen to come across one that's not working or not working properly, you can most likely just go to another available charger at the same location.
Yes, that's a huge problem also. But, IMO, that's an ever harder problem to correct. This is a self-inflected wound that's completely unnecessary and it's throwing gasoline on an already big fire.
Another excellent and informative video Tom. I spent a LOT of time watching your reviews of chargers and vehicles before settling on an ID.4 with an Electrify Home level 2 charger in the garage. I agree with your comment that Tesla started the trend towards offering free charging with the purchase of a car and, it only makes sense other manufacturers would try to copy that model. Let's face it, Tesla created the EV market and the others waited a long time before deciding it was worth the investment and essentially copied the Tesla business model. The primary difference is, Tesla spent huge sums of cash to build out their fast charging network in advance of anticipated sales and, because theirs is proprietary, you don't find the glut of cars waiting to charge. There are more than 100 different EV models being sold in the US and most of them can't use Tesla fast charging. As you said, the problem is only going to get worse.
I see what you are seeing !
I agree with you. Unlimited free charging is a very bad idea because people will just abuse it. There's someone online who I know that charges their GV60 for free at Electrify America and then charges their Bolt EV off 120 V using the V2L adapter. Talk about blatant abuse.
The set number of free kilowatt-hours or dollars of credit is a far better solution because, as you said, it encourages people to save it and use it sparingly. Somewhere between 500 and 1000 kWh is adequate for a long road trip or two.
Luckily for me living in a rural state (New Mexico), there are very few people here who hog/clog up the EA chargers when they could charge at their home. It is mainly regular road trippers using EA chargers as intended. But the problem of clogged up chargers is definitely more of an issue in large cities since there's more EV owners who don't live with access to a detached garage or on-property parking.
Thank you. Yes, this issue is much worse in more urban areas with higher EV adoption, but it will become an issue in the rural areas soon if the OEMs continue this reckless practice.
Tom very well done your analizes. That's way I will buy a Tesla model Y! I don't want any more hustles charging an electric car being on the road! I got my share...When they will fix the level 3 charging infrastructure I will reconsider. Until then, best regards!
I said this a year ago that the unlimited DCFC was going to screw this up. They should change it so that after X amount of times charged during prime hours that people must charge for free from 12am-7am. This will fix this issue.
I totally agree
Thank you for bringing this to light.
Could not agree more. Never mind that free unlimited plans incentivize customers to make sure EA is losing as much money as possible, depleting the war chest to build new stations and incentive to fix broken ones.
The truth is CCS charging has gotten much MUCH worse even since I got my car a year ago, and it’s now far too unreliable for road trips. We take the gas car we won’t be getting rid of.
You make some very good points, I bought a Lightning and my typical use model was home charging. Unfortunately too many folks do not do the research before jumping on an EV. I think I did fairly intensive research before I bought, but I also have a F450 (normally used to tow my Fifth Wheel) as a backup. I drive 32 miles round trip to my office and even less to the Home Depot or Lowes on weekends. It is unfortunate that so many do not understand the limitations as new technology is introduced. There weren't my gas stations when Henry Ford started pumping out Model T's.
One of the biggest perks of having an ev is being able to have your home be the gas station. There is a free dc fast charge at a dealer 5 miles from my house but why to save like $4?
I charge at work where I am 8 to 10 hours a day, 6 days a week. I also charge at the local Military base because I was medically discharged and have base access for time of service. My ID4 came with 3 years of 30 minutes of charging, but the nearest Electrify America station is 150 miles away from where I live, which is in San Antonio and I live south of Corpus Christi, Texas.
There is definitely a shortage of DCFC chargers in Texas. Even Tesla chargers are mostly on the freeway's. I wanted to go to Big Bend National Park and couldn't even get there and back in our Mod Y.
Great video Tom! I agree 100%. There is no need to incentivize EVs, they can't keep up with the demand anyways. It's also getting annoying seeing Chevy Bolts at the 350kW EA chargers.
You are correct EV's will sell without these free charging offers. As to slower charging vehicles on 350kw chargers...I drive a 23 Kona and only use DCFC when traveling (for the most part) the only time I end up on a 350 is when that is all that is available...hopefully everyone does the same.
Have a great day!
Mike
Great video and great points. Thank you for this excellent video. This whole conversation is what makes PHEVs so attractive. I went with a PHEV this time in the hopes that things are in a better place and I can go electric with my next vehicle.
Amen, brother. I LOATHE free charging piggies lapping up at the trough, while those of us who actually need it wait in line. DCFC needs to be treated as a rare and valuable resource at this point.
Gina W: Whining and hating won't fix the problem. And no, I don't have an EV, much less a free charging plan I am a piggy about.
There are some people who happen to need it, and who are getting it for free. I live in an apartment and happy that my community has a slow L2 charger, but there are some who don't have access. And there are some piggies who are taking what they can get for free, for sure.
Hi Tom. What a GREAT video! ! ! Very eye-opening and as always very informative. It really does give me something to think about. Thank You, Thank You, Thank You . . . . .
I've seen EA stations filled with local drivers, who could be charging at home, but don't because they got 'free charging"! Why not offer a number of free charging sessions with no calendar limit, to encourage 'free session' use only when doing road trips?
This is a very good idea, like 100 free charging sessions to 80% charge, after that they start to be charged and if the car is left for more than 15 mins after getting a full charge they get a penalty. Of course this is only for DC fast chargers. Level 2 charging is too slow to really penalize someone for keeping their car at one over the limit. In fact condos should be installing a Level 2 per condo just to attract more folks to get a place there.
Free Charging isn't the main problem. The main problem is the lack of "dependable" DCFC. I have a 2021 Model Y and a 2023 ID. 4. The ID. 4 is NOT unlimited charging. You get the freebee for 30 minutes then you pay. I live in Middle Tennessee where there are very few DCFC that are not Tesla. When we go to east TN we stop in Cookeville at EA because we HAVE to since the next DCFC isn't until Knoxville. We charge past 80% because we have to in order to make to the other side of Knoxville to the only kinda reliable EA station since the Knoxville station is down most of the time with only 1 or 2 plugs working. EA knows about this station and has for awhile. Tesla on the other hand I do only go to 80% since there are 5 TIMES more superchargers than EA DCFC chargers ( or any other company ) on the same route. To me, that is the real issue is that there just aren't enough dependable stations out there. I do see your point for people using them in there home town. I only DCFC when I am on the road. There are 3 new Superchargers being installed right now around Nashville and one is about 10 miles from my house. Even if I had free Supercharging again.......I wouldn't use it because its much more convenient to plug in at home. Good stuff T.M. Now lets get Dom a home charger for his Bolt.....whenever that will be. hahaha
Thanks Tom, been looking forward to this video since you talked about it on the last InsideEV's podcast with the guys. A mature discussion is what is needed. I agree though free charging is not the way forward at all not with new EV sales. Here in Australia there is less free but it does exist and our infrastructure is nowhere near the EA rollout level. It is getting there but only recently have other hardware providers with more reliable hardware than Tritium entered the market and charging providers or State funded charging projects are using manufacturers like Kempower. Discounted rates or a 1-2yr membership like EA offers but gives them a lower per kWh rate is much better. For me renting where I am lucky enough to have a 15/16A outlet putting in a home charger is not possible so I use the granny charger that came with my car, Ioniq 28kWh.
Love the Tom vs. Tom argument at beginning of video. Your acting skills have improved my friend. Totally agree with your position. FREE DCFC is awesome for long road trips only. Day to day use and FREE DCFC is stooooopiddddddd
Good job. You are ahead of the curve. Other people will talk about this soon.
Hi Tom, I love your channel! We have a 2023 VW ID 4 and installed an Emporia level 2 charger per your recommendation. It works flawlessly. We only use free EA chargers on road trips and never more than 80%. I have experienced the same thing happening around the front range of Colorado where local people use fast charging as their primary method. It’s not sustainable! Keep up the good work.
here for the rant!
That was really nice of you to go out of your way to try to help the lady with the BMW i4. Sadly, she really should have had better expectations and develop more patience. Better yet, buy a house and install a charger in the garage.
Great video. Completely agree with your points. I think eventually the dealers will figure out they are selling a feature that will become increasingly worthless. I live in the Princeton NJ area, our nearest EA charging station is at the Quakerbridge Mall on Route 1. There are only 2 charging stations operational. The next closest is in Bridgewater (where you were ~30 miles away) and then the Wallmart charging area on Rte 18 in New Brunswick. In the Princeton and Flemington (no DC fast charging stations at all) areas are numerous car dealers and you see many EVs driving around here. The infrastructure simply does not exist to provide free charging to all those people who have been sold on the "free charging" gimmick.... It is going to massively backfire on Volkswagen and EA. In the meantime, I have to rethink about extended road trips was planning with my R1S. Kyle Conner from Out of Spec Reviews advises to buy a Tesla or an ICE car, if you want to make road trips....
As ever, thanks for an informative, well-researched video, Tom. The predicted public charging crisis is actually a result of several factors converging. One, free- charge incentives. Two, failure of providers of public chargers to maintain them. Three, failure of most public charge networks, especially fast DC, to function at low winter temperatures - see Out of Spec Reviews YT channel's recent work on this.
Yes, there are other issues for sure, but the point here is these free unlimited programs are exasperating the other issues.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney hey Tom, how receptive are the OEMs to this message that the free charging is a problem that’s getting worse fast? Any chance they’ll change their ways soon?
@@anthonyc8499 they dont care which is sad because as tom pointed out, they are ruining their own network that the vehicles they sell depend on
Thanks for highlighting this issue, and how we need to fix it.
Thanks Tom, great video. Was surprised to learn this. In Canada, except for Tesla, many EV's do not come with free charging...
Thanks a lot for the experience sharing. Yes, free EV charging screwed up every EV owner.
This is a great video. Thanks for educating many. Another step that could be taken with the free charging is to make it valid only at locations that are more than perhaps 50 miles from your registered vehicle address. That way most people would only get free charging when they are actually traveling.
Great coverage Tom! Just recently before the end of 2022, Tesla gave the free charging for the first 10,000 miles incentive. Well, I have a co-worker who bought a M3 (technically it’s his wife) but now he’s telling everyone how he hates the car for going to charging station every time just to charge because they think it’s a must to maximize their $$ savings. Obviously, his wife makes him do it so it became a burden for him. The bad publicity he’s spewing is in reality negates the companies incentive advantage for all EV companies. I like your suggestion better to give the incentive by offering a home charger instead because that’s where EV adaptation needs it the most.
As you said, it’s not just that owners want to take advantage of free charging. They also want to charge to 100% which can occupy a dispenser for up to an hour. Basic courtesy is too only charge as long you need to and then move on if others are obviously waiting. We got two years of free EA charging but have only used it on road trips. We live 65 miles from the nearest EA station. I might well be tempted to use one more often if it was closer. I do often use public Level 2 chargers when they are both convenient and free. BTW Rivian does provide free DCFC at their Adventure Network stations but it is currently exclusively for Rivians.
When I first started watching this video I was highly skeptical about your hypothesis that free charging was causing a problem for electric car owners and the future of the industry. However, you definitely convinced me. I have 2021 VW ID.4 that came with three years of free charging with EA. I also have a level 2 charger at home. For most of my driving, which is local, I always charge at home. I only use EA fast chargers when on long trips. Nevertheless, I believe that a reasonably large number of EV drivers would choose to use fast chargers over a home charger if it was free. There has been huge growth in EVs over the past few years and the charging networks have not added enough new chargers. Also, the large charging networks have too many chargers that need to be repaired. When you add in the issue of a good number of EV owners with free charging plans using the fast chargers for local driving you end up with increasing cues of people waiting to charge. Unfortunately this is likely to continue to be a problem for several years even if the auto manufacturers stop offering the plans tomorrow given how long these plans last. Mine will not run out until almost mid-2024.
Love your content. Best video on public charging infrastructure. Got polstar as city car don't even bother to go to free ea stations any more. All the wait and hassle not worth free charging.
Agreed. Free fast charging encourages people to Bogart the equipment. Until the networks become adequate free charging is a bad idea.
I agree with you. Most of my local fast chargers are full of people who are only there because they got it for free. Most have not installed a charger at home "why, this is free". I then ask them if their time is free. Because spending an hour away from the house to get free charging is not free to me.
Hi Tom, I have some good news, several of the apt complexes in Walnut Creek CA now have level 2 chargers on site (usually 4 stalls) and the city put in several free level 2's in parking garages and other areas.
I hope more apt complexes around the country add these charges, definitely takes the pressure of the Super Chargers and makes their complexes more attractive to EV owners.
Tom,
Great points. I have a Tesla (3 years) and I live in an apartment with no chance of installing a charger in my parking space (this could be a topic for another video). And, I fully depend on the two 2 stalls Tesla Urban Chargers (72kW Max.)
However, I believe we are failing to let EV owners understand that you can plan your day and enjoy your charging experience. Let me explain.
I usually plan my charge around meetings that I can take on the car, lunch times, diner time, or after I'm done from work and I want to relax (nothing like hearing music on premium sound).
Love your channel. I just subscribed. I think there needs to be a plentiful amount of DCFC everywhere. Right now, there are a handful around and that’s nowhere near enough.
I have EV6 with 1K free charging at EA. I do not use it at home, just on trips. I do take quite a few trips (30k miles after 6 months of ownership). I am quite sure I am way over 1k by now. But EA software is so fundamentaly screwed up that not only they keep loosing my charging history, but also I still gettng a free juce from them.
Thank you for making this video. I've been saying the same thing for a year.
Love what you have to say brother. Thank you for keeping it real from one new york to the other
Great video. While I agree that manufacturers are making the problem worse with “unlimited” offers and should incentivize home charging more, I think the focus really needs to be on building up the infrastructure for DCFC and putting pressure on EA and others to maintain and expand their chargers. It is as if those companies don’t want to earn more money. Hopefully Tesla opens their supercharger network to everyone and many of the problems may be solved.
Add Call Schedule: And if Tesla can offer reliable charging (compared to most competitors), it can be done. It's not like it's magic. Good design, good maintenance, focus on reliability, and done.
Don't assume all those chargers are profitable for the companies that own them. To maximize profitability a charger needs to be in use all the time. That means having a line of cars waiting to use a given station is the ideal situation for the station owner. A station where you never have to wait to charge is probably not profitable.
The same issue also arises with level 2 workplace charging. For instance, my company offers free unlimited charging for employees at its offices. Not surprisingly, the chargers at the office are always full, and I suspect most of the people using them could charge at home, but charge at the office only because the office is free. While, in the meantime, people that don't have access to home charging and really need the office's chargers can't use them without either arriving very early in the morning or staying late in the evening.
I have 3 EVs from different manufacturers. When I mentioned this issue of free charging in the ID.4 FB group, it hit a nerve. Many owners feel as they paid for the charging as it was priced into the car. I tried... I preferred the 1000mi free referral supercharging method when I bought a Tesla. It helped the sale and got me acclimated to superchargers w/o clogging them for years.
Great points Tom! I have to admit, I do on occasion go to the EA charger nearest (15 miles away, so not exactly near) me to get my free charging even tho I have charging at home for my Taycan. I would however leave instantly if the charger was full and someone was waiting. Never had that problem bc where I’m at in Alabama, there’s not been any queuing at the EA station that I’ve ever seen. It’s just not that prolific here for EVs as the North or out west. Infrastructure is the base of the problem and we are a good 3 years away before we can even come close to catching up…manufacturers need to change their policies and incentives to help cool things down a bit while the infrastructure starts to come along.
Great video. As an EA user with 3 years of free charging I have reached the same conclusion and it’s getting worse. I frequently use EA for local charging because I feel I paid for it in the purchase price. Most people I meet at EA are doing the same. Can’t blame them. With EA you don’t have to worry about battery stress due to high speed charging since I never get more than 160 kw on a 350kw station. Most often it’s around 50kw. Lots of broken chargers and longer lines recently at EA. EA limits you to 30 minutes free but this just means they come back twice a week. We have a Tesla and use it for road trips with no problems. Never a wait. I won’t even consider taking my CCS vehicle on a road trip. Ford just lowered their prices on the Mach E. I feel sorry for those buyers. Buy a Model Y instead.
100% agree. The only thing I wish you made this video several months back. I charge at home 90% of the time. Unoccupied Fast chargers in Los Angeles are very hard to find.