Technology Connections just put out a video about this because of the recent spike in purchases of heat pumps in the US. Some important things to note; a lot of installers are currently taking massive margins on heat pumps because of the hype. Check the wholesale price before paying for instalation. Heat pumps are barely any more advanced than an AC, so they shouldn't cost double or triple. Also, your installer should be calculating new DTU requirements for your house, not going off of the old numbers, as furnaces were often over-speced. Also, there are new low temperature heat pump units that can run just fine in the cold weather you're describing. I live in New Zealand where our coldest days are -5C, we live entirely off of old, low-end heat pumps just fine and don't need central heating.
Fellow kiwi here. -10 referenced in the vid is -10 Fahrenheit I think (-23 C). Was thinking the same as you as to why supplementary hearing was required then remembered US uses degrees F...
Yea honestly what he described including the refrigerant would be maybe modern/new about 10yrs ago. This did not seem like anywhere near state of the art you'd expect on this channel.
R454b is being pushed by Carrier and R32 is being pushed by Daikin/Goodman. Both are listed by ASHRAE as being A2L, which is a new, lowered flammability rating that is supposed to indicate only slightly flammable. Read the MSDS on these refrigerants. Do not trust ASHRAE. R32 is 100% difluoromethane which is listed as highly flammable and explosive. R454B contains 69% of the same gas, and it to is listed in the MSDS as highly flammable and explosive. We can't stop government agencies being forced by environMENTALists from putting us in harms way, so we must be extremely careful when working on HVAC systems.
I just had a heat pump put in 2 years ago and it really saved us tons of money. Living in central Wisconsin it gets cold really cold 30 to 40 below zero. We did have a new propane furnace and had a pellet stove installed to help keep the house warm in the winter. My neighbors have been over tons of times to check out the heat pump to see how well it works.
I am an Electromechanical Engineer and I used to configure Danfoss (A Danish) Variable Frequency Drives in dairy plants and the efficiency compared to a start-stop type system was incredible when you add it all up over a decade. I was always in search of that magic PID value for the control loop I miss that job!
Crazy how so many people here are surprised and impressed by heatpumps in 2024. We've been using heatpump to heat our houses in Quebec for what... 15 years+ ? Aux heat (either resistive or propane/natural gas) as back up and during very cold days only.
Here in Germany a most of the older houses still have oil and gas heating because it was a solid and cheap method 20-30 years ago. In the current situation with wars, rising fuel prices and a greener mindset most new houses install heat pumps in combination with PV systems.
Replaced our 20 year old standalone AC unit with a variable speed heat pump just two weeks ago. Our 6-year-old gas furnace remains to pick up the load when temps drop into the 20's as a cold climate model like your heat pump makes little sense in the Puget Sound area. Your description of the difference between how heat is delivered to the house from a furnace and a heat pump was the best I've heard yet.
@randalllewis4485 I bought the same heat pump (Daikin DZ6VSA361E) last November and it performed wonderfully during that week long cold spell (18F) here in Portland without kicking in the aux heat strips. COP @ 17F is 2.25; COP @ 47F is 3.30. You had similar weather in Puget Sound.
Switched over to a Heat pump for just over a year now. Except for the few days that drop significantly below -10deg C, the house has used significantly less natural gas and kept the house warm. Very impressive tech.
how much do you pay for a heat pump + installation in your area? Here I'd compare ~2-3000€ for a gas unit to ~10-15.000€ for the heat pump + another 20.000€ (~15-20kwp) for the solar panels, if you prefer not to get eaten by 0,3-0,5€ per kwh. The heat pump may consume less on a monthly basis, yes, but at least in my region it's not worth it. Break Even Point somewhere in 40+ years, most likely more - thats not a good investment.
@@pete5405 Air to air is 2000-3000€. In a big house you could need multiple. For water heating there are a few options but generally around 10k€. For 20-30k€ you can go geothermal.
After watching an hour and 45 minutes of Technology Connection on heat pumps this week (having watched more hours previously) I am happy you are also making a video. People need to be informed about how good these things are!
I dont know what it is about heat pumps, but for some reason the topic always tends to turn the comment section absolutely insufferable, ranging from "heat pumps are incredible!" to "heat pumps dont work if it's below freezing!" to "how are you just discovering heatpumps, we've had them installed where I live since the 4th century and we're also better looking than you."
Probably same reason people are against new stuff like electric cars and solar panels. Here in Czechia basically all new houses are required to have a heat pump, no burning fossil fuels anymore. Some of the cheaper heat pumps do have problems in a big cold like -20°C and then these homeowners are surprised they were getting heat by electricity only and their bills are high. But these people usually don't have their house properly insulated, with triple glass windows etc, so it's not fault of only these cheaper heat pumps.
Heatpumps have been around for quite a while and works fine in very cold temperatures if the right kind of unit is selected. I'm in the northeast and i have been on inverter heat pump heating for years. İ kept my old fuel oil boiler for backup and boy i am glad i did that. When the power goes out, a small generator or a battery is all you need to run the boiler.
@@Papasmurph010far better than those junk mr cool units everyone was hwaking and was swooning over 2 years ago daiken isnt cheap cause the parts are better inside
I work for Daikin, nice to see you went with the FIT systems! If you have any questions feel free to reach out. Beware of those press fittings they used though. They brazed on the units themselves I dont know why they just didn't braze everything. Brazing is much better long term. Press fittings will leak much more easily especially if installers don't prep and seat the pipes properly. Hopefully they were purging nitrogen through the system when they did braze.
Yes it is being banned next year and no more can be import or made January 2025. The replacement is R32 and R454b both have difluoromethane in their mixture.
@lylestavast7652 R290 won't be used in homes. It was discussed, but EPA said no. It is used in open case coolers and freezers and is limited to 5.25oz. I certainly dont want pounds of propane in my home.😂
I’m an HVACR engineer. Do this day in day out. Strongly disagree on them using the ring lock couplers. Should ALWAYS be brazed unless unsafe or hot works not allowed. There’ll be a leak on them eventually, braze you’ll never have to worry. Many people use them to cut down on time. I get called out and it’s always them that are leaking.
In sweden HP has been extremly common in the last 30 years. I have a Air to water heatpump myself that gives heat to my radiators and hot water. Its great.
@@sys-administrator Which is why heat pumps are usually better off with water based floor heating as the required temperature for that water hovers around 30°C.
@@sys-administrator You're thinking of it the wrong way around. You dont _NEED_ 65c to heat your home, you need it to compensate for having a high heat loss flat. Anyway, thats beside the point, a NIBE S2125 will output 65'c water at -25c outdoor temps. Rather lousy efficiency at that point, but still much better than using resistive heating.
My dad does heating and cooling for a living so it's pretty interesting to see this kind of transformation in a household with insane insight, well done Jerry.
There is so much misinformation out there. People replace their systems every day due to age, and many of them are just sticking with what was already there, mainly due to all the confusion. With the right information, you can understand that these modern systems don't require burning stuff, are more comfortable, cost less to run each month, and after incentives cost the same as the older tech new. It's a win on all fronts that everyone should be doing but sadly like I said, most just go with what they had. Knowledge is power.
People trashing heat pumps often overlook the dual fuel option (perhaps deliberately). It dips to -30C here a few weeks a year, but most of the time a heat pump would cover the majority of the heating and cooling needs.
@Baxtexx Due fuel systems are just wasting more money when NG does well on its own. HP cost double what a good quality AC and high efficiency furance run and last half as long of life span.
@@ulischmidt03 people see heat pumps as a political symbol and feel obligated to object to them. Crazy how people are triggered by air conditioners that run backwards.
Dude these guys hacked your system up!! They didn’t flow nitrogen when they brazed and they knew they were being filmed!! That means they either don’t care or don’t know better . When your heat or ac stops working next season, hope they can fit you into their schedule. Also Your thermostat settings/ wiring are going to determine wether your electric heat is supplemental or auxiliary
Yea someone government bureaucratic got their palms grease for this nonsese. I definitely dont want R32 or R454b in my home. difluoromethane is highly flammable and can be explosive. Especially when the new equipment first comes out
@@zack9912000 Yeah, I have never heard of it exploding or causing fires, but I guess its possible. Anyway, I think they are working on banning R32 over the next few years, as its got a really high CO2 equivalent if released into the atmosphere.(1kg of R32 is equal to .6 TONS of CO2 released) 410a is even worse. I dont know what they're planning to replace it with though, as ammonia for instance isnt CO2 bad, but bad for completely different reasons.
@@nadirh902 Had to google that, not a car guy :P . But speaking of cars, releasing 1kilogram of coolant roughly equates to a year of driving a combustion car.
Heat pumps should not cost much more than ACs, all these HVAC companies are price gauging hard. In addition a lot of HVAC companies just install the same capacity heat pump as the gas heaters which are often multiple x overpowered for the house driving up the price. Keep watch and calculate the capacity of heat pump you need yourself.
@@LeArmBoss It costs the same to install as an AC unit. Companies should earn obviously but they are price gouging not earning in this case. I can say this for sure because I have gotten quotes on heatpumps vs AC installs of the same size and the upcharge is huge for no extra labor or skill.
I am running a Daikin heat pump with in floor heating on my house we built last year. It was amazing over the winter here in the alps. Set and forget ❤
Had a Daiken HP for 25 years in New Zealand. Just have to put half sheet of plywood over the outdoor unit when it snows to keep it from constantly defrosting itself.
As a HVAC Tech I appreciate your interest in it all. It is fascinating, especially when you've got high end fancy equipment. I installed a Daikin three head a couple days ago. Plus they just made the new R-32 refrigerant that's much friendlier for the environment.
> new refrigerant This is one of the reasons some people are somewhat wary. If you're purchasing something with a supposedly 30y lifespan and you can purchase a unit that's essentially the same as a unit purchased 30y ago that actually lasted 30y, great. But you can't. And the warranties a) tend to be short, b) tend to have so much fine print that they don't tend to be viewed as reliable themselves, and c) tend to be with companies that you're not sure will last another 30y.
@@jorgebatista6323 I meant for retrofits to add heat pumps to existing houses with "silly" heat bills to try to help bring down said bill. If you have e.g. oil hot water - which many places here do - and it gets below freezing in winter - which it does here - losing heat can very quickly result in burst pipes and a very expensive bill.
@@TheLoneWolfling I get it. But let me tell you, here in Portugal we've been using these heat pumps for like 20+ years, here we just call it AC, and they work very well.
Splittys aren't new to the US, old mate already had one, what's new is reverse cycle (hot and cold in one unit). They are also behind on the times on what gasses are used. His new unit uses gas that was banned here 10+ years ago for new aircon installs, both cars and homes. He also had Natural gas heating which is top notch but horrid for the environment (hydrocarbons and such) and some say your health.
Not new, just not practical in some places. Heat pumps are very inefficient when the outside temperature gets below freezing. America is very diverse in terms of climate, especially on the east coast. Florida or Texas for example would benefit from split systems using a heat pump but somewhere it gets far below freezing like North Dakota it would actually be extremely inefficient and could actually leave you in the cold. Lots of homes in America just use central heating and cooling systems because it’s easier for larger homes to have a a couple large units versus a bunch of smaller ones that would struggle to cool a large room.
My geothermal system was just switched on yesterday. It's so cool (and warm!) not to need fossil fuel anymore. Where we live, we don't have gas lines, so I had oil deliveries. How awful. Why did the price of oil go up all of a sudden? Oh man, I ran out of oil? We need a oil delivery. There's a storm coming soon. Ugggh, so happy that's no longer a thing I have to think about. And we switched our cars to EVs (and one PHEV). The last step is getting solar!
Just installed geothermal heat pump.. hole drilled into the ground (250m), cold stuff goes in, warmer stuff comes out. Super convenient, basically "set and forget" and cuts my power usage by a ton. Can also be run "in reverse" during summer to get free cooling/ac. Yay for new tech!
@@MrChipchoit's like getting a deep water well drilled, that's done on the regular in some regions. then instead of a water pump and single pipe, you feed in a loop of pipe and fill the hole back in with soft material. run water through that loop and it can exchange heat with the earth down below.
@@ratchet1freak Thanks, i understand but how much does something like this cost, and where are you from, Canada? (in EU, haven't heard of anyone using this) Deep drilling is usually expensive that's why I'm asking.
@@MrChipcho I know most of this from watching youtube videos from US. You can put the equipment required on a road legal vehicle. That's how most houses in rural areas get their water. A big part of the cost will be in the pipe and the drillbit that gets left in the hole
Our company is an authorized contractor for Daikin in our area and I am the service technician that installs them and fixes them and starts them up. There awesome equipment and have few to no problems with them. Good choice 👍
You'd think the installers would have done a nice job considering they were being filmed and sheer number of people that what this channel, but they have proved me wrong.
Getting a Daikin heat pump with four mini-split heads installed this Friday. Current AC is a fan-forced 12 or 13 SEER unit. New mini-split units are rated at 18 to 20.6 SEER2. We are going to keep our propane furnace for the time being through next winter to see if we need any supplemental heat.
The only reason that is the case is Germany has to import all their NG and propane. If Germany didnt have to do that and could produce their own it wouldnt be the case.
@@rkan2 in cold climates you can't fully replace gas or oil with a heat pump(yet). even in this video of jerryrig in utah, he has two heat pumps AND a gas furnace. the reason is they get less efficient the more cold it is. so on the most severe cold days, when you need the heat the most, it doesn't produce much heat. it's a rare occurance and we didn't get close to that temp last winter in ontario canada but you dont wanna be shit outta luck when its -40c
@@bmxscape Maybe not where you are from. In Finland probably at least a quarter of houses are heated without gas or oil burners. Only heatpumps with electric obviously as a backup/boost for colder weather. Obviously you need to be able to rely on the electrical grid in your country to be able to do it.
I installed a 3 zone ductless heat pump in my house this year, and a single zone in my attached home office in 2020. Was very impressed with how quiet they are and how cheap it is compared to other heating method costs.
The moment where I find things really funny... my country house has heated floors, cold and heat air cons... for over 30 years, lately I replaced the outside units with inverter units as they are more efficient and can run the whole day, and I live in the Mediterranean. When they work for cold, the splits cool the air, when they work for heat, they pump hot water through the floor. They also heat the water accumulators for bath and kitchen use, either in the summer or winter. I also collect the distilled water. My system is also Daikin.
I live in the desert Southwest not too far from Utah. We just installed 3 ductless heat pumps for our house last month. They work wonderful and I am very excited to get my first electric bill in a few weeks for a full month of service. I'm also very curious as to how they work in the winter as our winters are a little bit more mild than Utah's. Also I'm pretty excited because my units use solar panels during the day, so in the summer we have free AC when the sun's out. Can't wait until winter and have free heat also!
I work for an HVAC contractor as an installer. We are a certified Daikin dealer and work closely with the local Daikin reps. I've personally installed well over 100 Daikin fit systems. If the installers don't take the time to do the little things the right way, or if your duct work is undersized or bottlenecked, those systems will give you nothing but problems as they are extremely sensitive. If the installer doesn't purge the lineset with nitrogen when they braze there will be soot that forms on the inside of the lines and it will ruin the metering devices and the electronic expansion valve. And even if everything is done perfectly sometimes they just have problems bc Daikin has some pretty inconsistent manufacturing quality. I personally love the system because my coworker and I take the time to do the little things, but a lot of the guys hate them because they don't.
In Norway about 40% of all houses use air-to-air heatpumps (27% in 2012), these have the ability to both heat and cool. In our house we got a heatpump in each floor with the support of a fireplace for the really cold winterdays.
@@kellymoses8566 You intentionally glazed over the "support of a fireplace for the really cold winterdays." part. What many US redidents think of a fireplace is not the same as in europe. A pure burning fireplace has about 80% efficiency and does not pollute indoors. An open fireplace emits about 500w/kg of wood, a modern pure burning fireplace emits up to 3200w/kg of wood.
Heat pumps depend on quite a lot of electricity, doesn't Norway have cheap hydro and (your own) gas generated electricity? makes all the difference to the economics.
@@peterbarta1444 Because it stupid compared to NG equipment, NG equipment can work in all environments without needing aux heat. Heatpumps cost more to install, more in repairs, parts are hard to get and they dont last as long. Plus Homeowners cant fix them as they can a NG system. They are more negatives to them than positives.
@@zack9912000Amen, I know a whole development that got rid of their electric heat pumps and went to gas. Mold was growing in the houses because a heat pump can't dry the air out.
@@zack9912000I'm missing where NG works in the summer to cool? Unless you're saying that two separate heating and cooling systems is simpler and easier than..one?
I have recently replaced my 20 year old heat pump with a new Trane high efficiency unit. Cut my power usage by almost half, not to mention a pretty nice tax credit. Definitely worth the investment.
@@zack9912000 I see a liar has joined the chat, basing their opinion on one (1) person who probably got jerked around by an HVAC company (no... that would never happen.)
10 years ago I replaced an almost 1/4 ton 60 years old oil furnace with an expensive nat gas super efficiency boiler. It paid for itself in 5 years. It is amazing how far we have come.
Hey! HVAC tech here. The EPA just released a new refrigerant guidelines they want to implement that they are going to be forcing change to through their normal insane price gouging.(and they are going to do it REALLY quick *from what I have heard*) I highly recommend you contact your company who installed it about an extended parts and labor warranty because you , unfortunately, are most likely going to need it regardless what brand you buy and part cost for your units with 410a are going to skyrocket. (The new stuff is either r-32 or r-454b)
R32 is a bit cheaper than R410A and is compatible with many existing 410A systems. Since Daikin is a promoter of R32 I'm sure Zack's unit is dual-rated for both refrigerants.
I help run an HVAC business and appreciate this video! I will be sending it to my customers! Just a quick note you said that the slots in the top of your old 80% furnace had CO2 coming out of it or there was potential for it to escape. This is incorrect. The inducer fan motor sucks air (and ignited gas) through the heat exchanger and blows it out the flue pipe. The slots are for air intake only. I don’t want people watching this video thinking their older furnaces may have co2 coming from those slots as it’s impossible for it to do so. Thanks for the thorough video as I sell the Amana version of this equipment!
As cool as this tech is, the sound in the winter hearing the furnace coming alive is peak core memory. The clicking, ignition, a few moments later the heat starts flowing through the vents. Granted my childhood home was a small house and my bedroom was right above the furnace
In Tasmania i have been using Heatpumps to heat and cool my home for the last 25 years, 10 years ago i installed an Air to Water Heatpump to replace our electric 300 litre water heater, they are both great systems and cheap to run. It amazes me how far behind America is when many parts of the world have been using this technology for 30+ years.
Same here, cost me 90 bucks a month to heat with NG and my uncles has a HP that runs his electric bill to almost 500 a month in the cold winter months. Has the highest efficiency inverter system and still struggles.
That condenser shown at 1:25 is a 2000 Lennox HS21 "Innovator" series; the top-of-the-line Lennox model from the time. They were two-stage (featuring a Copeland 2-speed reciprocating compressor), and those old Lennoxes were made during a time when two-stage was luxury. A product ahead of its time for sure
Heat pumps? Here in Sweden they have been the standard way of heating buildings since the 90's. R22 is an excellent refrigerant, with almost the exact same properties as R290 that is replacing most older type refrigerants like R410a... Boiling temperature doesn't matter, since it's stated at atmospheric pressure. In a refrigerant system, pressures can go negative to lower the boiling point even further.
@@LeArmBosswrong. R290 (which is propane) is the newest and the most ecological (at least for now). Technical theres R-454b, which is newer. But not up to buildcode for now. Here around R-454b isn't even acknowledged, it's basically an US thing for now (and in the US not up to code, as i said). I don't know what you want.
We installed three mini split units to replace our 4 ton heat pump from about 13 years ago. I ended up getting one of the outdoor units for free because I screwed something up and they were awesome and sent another one. I had a pro install it all after that. Best decision we made for the house after solar.
while the tech may be more efficient, I was 'sold' on getting an air source heat pump AC unit back in 2007. Literally the next year after that our electricity rates rose (first time in 10 years which is what my savings rate was based on) and it continued to increase after that over the next 13 years I owned the property and used the AC heat pump. It never did pay for the incremental increase in cost partly due to that. Also as a whole, we improved the energy efficiency of our home and started using less electricity overall (particularly the last 5 years we lived there). So in retrospect that purchase made ZERO SENSE. While I understand that perhaps today the tech is more efficient and better, you still have to understand your overall usage and amount spent and how buying a less efficient unit for a lesser cost may be more economical for you in the long run. This goes for Furnace as well when comparing high efficiency units to lower efficiency, particularly today with the cost of high efficiency units being sometimes DOUBLE the cost of lower efficiency units. You may use less money to better insulate your home, fix ductwork leaks, and perhaps spend the money on replacement windows and get a lower efficiency furnace and kill two birds with one stone. It all depends.
I live in a mobile home (1,250 sq. ft.) in Massachusetts and I had one of these systems put in. (different company) In a normal winter, without this system, my electric monthly bill would be $125. This January 2024, with this system in, my bill was $500+.(One month) GOOD LUCK !! Thank God I still have my kerosene heat for back up !! Now I only use the Heat Pump is when the kerosene goes out. They do say it works great in the summer, I'll let you know.
Zack has dirt cheap electricity in Utah, I'm sure he'll be saving lots of money. Obviously your electric rates will go up significantly, but your existing heating system also costs money to use. I'm also in MA and by my calculations on current utility rates a heat pump should be about 30-50% more expensive than gas if you use it the entire year. Since heating oil is more expensive than gas your heat pump _should_ be saving you money if it's properly sized and installed.
Good god guy, there was a allot of inaccuracies in this video. Im frankly a bit surprised because you usually do a pretty good job with the science and facts.
for the HVAC guy that did the brasing: dude really? no nitrogen or even removing the plastic panels or some wet rag? just make a brase so you can go propress? do better man. this setup is expenive and your work will shorten it lifespan. you give our field a bad name.
Daikin would probably supplied the system with R32 refrigerant in Northern Europe. Most system use it here. 1/3 global warming- half environmental tax and the gas price around the half versus 410A. R290 highly flammable, but environmental the best, seen installed in the US these days.
They wont be allowed tonuse R290 here for homes systems. Next year R32 and R454b will be the new refrigerant for the US. R410a is being banned and no more can be prodced or imported January 2025
R290 isn't allowed for home usage in hvac equipment. EPA restrict its usage and in commercial applications is max at 5.25oz due to explosion concerns and it terrible compared to traditional refrigerants. R32 and R454b will be replacing R410A next year.
People have pipes with highly flammable gas pumped into their kitchens, and nobody seems to worry about that...in the same way that they seem to worry about r290 in heatpumps It doesn't really make sense
@@kierank01 It makes plenty of sense. The gas coming into your home is not being pumped through your duct work and mixing perfectly with oxygen through in the home if you have a leak. These new refrigerants are highly flammable difluoromethane and if you have a large leak in your system its a bad day. They can claim its low flammable which is bs. Read the msds on R32 and R454b. Government idiots got their palms greased. We now have to have complete specialized equipment to install them and now add into the mix of all the craiglist installers who butcher work incorrectly, you have a fire asking to happen.
@@zack9912000 A little funny someway since you use gas driven heating system in many homes. We lost that opportunity at least 50 years ago. Thank God for that. Still a huge natural gas supplier. I saw an UA-cam video some days ago from USA and they installed a R290 heat-pump. May be commercial, but looked like a house installation. In Europe I have worked with ultra low temperature freezers on hydro carbon and due to restrictions, the allowed charge on two stages is just total 250 grams so the all ULT business is very troublesome since the systems are almost running dry and fail so extensive these days
For everyone watching this video. The most important part is that he DID NOT get rid of THE FURNACE. The Heat pumps are awesome. He’s a smart guy so he kept the gas burning machine.
8:17 : "quiet on the outside" - I wonder if your neighbor has the same experience ;) They seem to be quite loud in this video. Unfortunately that's my experience with those heat pumps, the owner doesn't need to deal with the noise, because he chooses the most convenient place, but the neighbor having his bedroom window within 15 meters tells a different story.
Noisy, and in the UK, very expensive, even with the limited government grants available. The break even point, even with the expensive gas Europe has had to content with for many years now is years and years in the future. I'm afraid, much like electric cars, they are good for people who can already afford the latest tech, but unaffordable for the average person.
They don't seem noisy on video, Zack's voice is coming out a bit louder and I don't see a microphone on him. 15m is definitely enough that the noise won't be a problem.
R410A refrigerant is being phased out. Guys did a good job on installation. Good thing you got rid of those old R22 units. I won’t touch R22 units any longer unless it’s an electrical issue. Even then I recommend replacement.
I've done HVAC-R for 25 years and we have had heat pumps in the south-central part of the United States longer than I've been doing this. The technology has finally made it efficient enough to use in the northern states. personally, I use a Wood firebox outside that heats a water loop that feeds a water coil as my main fuel with a gas Furnace as a backup. No 200-amp service is required and during a power outage, we can have heat still using s small generator.
Just a side note on heat pumps. In most places a totally above ground system is by far the best way to go. However, if you live in an area that gets exceptionally hot or cold you want a geothermal system instead. Since once you get a specific depth below ground the temperature is almost fixed in place you keep a high exchange rate in either cold or hot climates. This can easily raise your costs of install from as little as 3 times to over 10 times an above ground system. Mostly dependent on either the depth of permafrost in cold regions and or layers of solid rock anywhere. Thankfully for this in hotter regions you don't have to go very deep. Also baring damage from say Earthquakes or landslides, you rarely have to update or replace the underground loops, they can often last longer than the home does.
Daikin is great ! And especially split heat pumps and to the fact these heat pumps can heat the house in the winter but can cool the house in the summer, exactly how you said. Great video.
No nitrogen while brazing and still using zoom lock!!!!! That guy did a horrible install job. Hopefully it wont affect you system too much, but this guy took short cuts that can shorten the lifespan of your unit.
I wired in a custom home a few years ago that had 2 by6" fully insulated exterior walls and over R50 in the attic. The HVAC company installed two name brand highly rated heat pumps. One for each floor. First winter they had a service call for each unit that was covered under warranty. Next winter two more service calls that think it was the labor was not under warranty and it cost over $400. Third winter repeat but over $500. Finally after the warranty parts was over I convinced the home owner to just run the them in the emergency setting that used cheap natural gas. Homeowners wife was a CPA and keep all the cost and she said that yes running on gas cost more but with the gas furnace never requiring a service call it was more expensive to run the heat pumps with all the expensive service calls.
Just FYI, heat pumps can't handle hard winters. They're great in mild winters, though. It is possible to have a dual system, with a heat pump for mildly cold days and a furnace that will kick in when temps get really low. Edit: I guess I should have waited to the end to comment. Looks like you covered this. 😁
What installers don't tell you is there is a HUGE market for that reclaimed R-22 coolant. Due to its being replaced by R-410A, the cost of R-22 has skyrocketed. Companies take that reclaimed coolant and resell it back to a customer or sell it to a company that redistributes it. If you have 8 lbs of R-22, your installer should credit you $800 to $1,200 for the coolant as they'll make that much or more.
There's not a huge market for reclaimed r22. R22 hasn't been manufactured since 2010 and systems that use it are old and getting replaced. The stuff that comes out of an old system has to be recycled to be used again, that's why r22 is so expensive, it's not some shady racket.
It is a Federal crime to take it from one person system and use it into anothers system. That is a major EPA fine. We have to turn it in to centers for it to be cleaned and those companies will resell it. We have to pay to dispose of it. It 1500 to 1600 a jug now
I hope those installers were flowing nitrogen or carbon dioxide while brazing to prevent oxide from forming inside the copper. If they didn’t do that, be expecting problems with that electronic expansion valve inside.
Do you really need that extra heating? My 8kW (that's the electric rating) heatpump heats my 2 story home even when it's -25C outside. The only time I had to use separate space heaters was when the electronics failed. But other than that incident, almost 20 years of flawless and emissions-free heating.
Emission free heating? Are you off the grid with pure renewable energy? If not, then you are using electricity from a utility and that produced emissions.
@@09Cat800many refer to local when they say this. BUT, many utilities are bringing on various methods of emission free production. The giant waterfall near me does a pretty good job of that (if you need a reference older than the typical crying points you hear after your statement. )
There isn't a single state that has 100% emission free energy in the USA so you are still producing emissions unless you are off the grid. My last utility did have 16% from hydro but nowhere near 100% emission free. The rest was coal and natural gas fired power plants. He should say local not 100% emission free. That is naïve to say or even think that. Just like auto manufacturers say zero "tailpipe" emissions on EV cars. They still produce emissions from the electricity they use.
Equipment has skyrocketed, majory of the parts are made in Mexico and China. With bidens inflation spending and companies getting materials to build them prices have almost doubled.
Please make sure to do a follow up video after your experiences this summer. I have Rocky Mountain Power too. And while my current system is only 14 years old, I'm definitely thinking about this type of upgrade.
I live in Eastern Europe (Romania , the Transylvanian mountain area) and the winter temperature reaches -15/-18 C (-0.4 Fahrenheit for you Americans). I live in a new house, built in 2020 with porotherm bricks, triple glazed windows and very well insulated and for heating we decided to install underfloor heating with heat pumps similar to what is seen in this video and shocking, I know, the cost of heating is enormous...because I have 2 small children, I keep the temperature in the house at 21-22C (71F). After the winter of last year, we decided to give up the heat pumps and installed a gas central heating boiler with condensate pump and my heating bill is half in the winter months now....these heat pumps are not good when it is too cold outside and if you don't start digging trenches in the yard for geothermal heat pumps, it's not worth it... my advice is to stay away from them if you have gas. Edit: I forgot to put the cost...the heat pump sistem was close to 7000€ (Mitsubishi Electric ZUBADAN, 3 faze 380v unit) and the gas one was 2500€ (Ariston , 35kw unit)
Here in Norway heat pumps are on every other house and have been for a long time. It's great but as it's cheaper to use electricity some tend to use it more than they need creating a larger bill than if they used normal electric ovens. Still drilling down hoping it is not to long down to heat water. Using 2 pipes with a U-bend. It costs to get it started but then it's super cheap :-)
Heat pumps are great if you don’t have natural gas. But unless you are getting into the exotic geothermal heat pumps, a heat pump isn’t cheaper to use to heat a home. And once you get below 30 F the heat pump loses a lot of performance. Heat pumps are rated at BTUH at 45F and 17F. Look at both numbers and find out what your balance point will be.
A lot of the most recent heat pumps are rated for full heating down to between 0-5 degrees F depending on the manufacturer. Most builders also do not perform a real load calculation on the house when sizing a gas furnace and most are grossly oversized. If straight replaced with the same sized heat pump you'll never run into a heat issue. If sized properly on the design day your heat would run constantly at max output. If your gas heat never did that it's oversized. Mine runs only about 50% of the time when outside was -10 degrees meaning its almost double what it truly needed to be.
I've heard similar things to the guy above me. I hear well sized systems work pretty efficiently down to 5 degrees. If it's more efficient most of the year then it's still better, right? The situation might also be it's slightly less efficient sometimes and way more efficient other times. You have to do the math for your specific situation, right? I trust he did.
In most of the US heat pumps are cheaper year-round. Here in Massachusetts (with expensive electricity) an air-air heat pump is currently cheaper than gas when it's more than 45F outside. Heat pump COP drops a bit in the cold but on modern units the capacity stays up until subzero. The heat pump I've been eyeing (Comfort-Aire VCD36) is rated 39kBtu/h@COP 3.18 when it's 47F and it drops to 32kBtu/h@COP 2 when it's 5F outside. That's not a massive drop. Single-speed R22 systems are much worse.
Heat pumps have had a big push in the UK too, but the problem is that electricity here costs 4x as much as gas, meaning they end up being equivalent in running cost. Given that a heat pump is more expensive and more specialised to install than a standard gas boiler, and takes up some external space that not everyone has, it's fair to say most people haven't bothered switching.
i cant believe Americans are only just starting to use and and rave on about heat pumps. Australia and Europe has been using them since the dawn of time why is it suddenly such big news in north America
But only 55,000 uk residents out of 60 million use heat pump in their home. Glad im one of them. 0.19% of uk population. 14% United States. Actually, it's higher in the United States.
Great explanation! We have ours here in Amarillo, Tx. Our coldest temps hover around the low single digits for about a week or two. Sometimes wind chills take us lower. We’ve been lucky our heat pump works great even at those temps. I’m honestly not even sure if our emergency heat has ever turned 🤷🏻♂️
Forget raid shadow legends, we are out here getting sponsored by local utilities now
the fact that you got the JRE heart implies things I'm not sure I'm ready for yet
JRE mech-head? :O
Hello mr Hipyo keyboard guy
I have a Daikin at home, for more than 10 years now. works flawlesly. These things are bulletproof. Real good japanese brand
Hey howdy
Review the Nuphy Halo!
Technology Connections just put out a video about this because of the recent spike in purchases of heat pumps in the US. Some important things to note; a lot of installers are currently taking massive margins on heat pumps because of the hype. Check the wholesale price before paying for instalation. Heat pumps are barely any more advanced than an AC, so they shouldn't cost double or triple. Also, your installer should be calculating new DTU requirements for your house, not going off of the old numbers, as furnaces were often over-speced. Also, there are new low temperature heat pump units that can run just fine in the cold weather you're describing.
I live in New Zealand where our coldest days are -5C, we live entirely off of old, low-end heat pumps just fine and don't need central heating.
Fellow kiwi here. -10 referenced in the vid is -10 Fahrenheit I think (-23 C). Was thinking the same as you as to why supplementary hearing was required then remembered US uses degrees F...
'heat pumps' are AC
I was looking for the comment mentioning technology connections
Yea honestly what he described including the refrigerant would be maybe modern/new about 10yrs ago. This did not seem like anywhere near state of the art you'd expect on this channel.
@@Timewastedonyt He is so awesome and entertaining explaining things.
I’m an HVAC guy, R410A is 20 years old and not new and about to be replaced in less than 3 years by R-32 refrigerant.
R454b is being pushed by Carrier and R32 is being pushed by Daikin/Goodman. Both are listed by ASHRAE as being A2L, which is a new, lowered flammability rating that is supposed to indicate only slightly flammable.
Read the MSDS on these refrigerants. Do not trust ASHRAE. R32 is 100% difluoromethane which is listed as highly flammable and explosive. R454B contains 69% of the same gas, and it to is listed in the MSDS as highly flammable and explosive. We can't stop government agencies being forced by environMENTALists from putting us in harms way, so we must be extremely careful when working on HVAC systems.
Yup same here. We never install 410a anymore.
Which one is better? Read online that the older the better, but more harmful for enviroment.
R410a is ancient by today's standards. Hydrocarbons like for example R290 and R600a is the new thing.
@@LinusJohansson-yu7cy same here - UK heat pump installer here and am always amazed at how far behind the US is on these things.
I just had a heat pump put in 2 years ago and it really saved us tons of money. Living in central Wisconsin it gets cold really cold 30 to 40 below zero. We did have a new propane furnace and had a pellet stove installed to help keep the house warm in the winter. My neighbors have been over tons of times to check out the heat pump to see how well it works.
sounds like they trying to stay warm
I am an Electromechanical Engineer and I used to configure Danfoss (A Danish) Variable Frequency Drives in dairy plants and the efficiency compared to a start-stop type system was incredible when you add it all up over a decade. I was always in search of that magic PID value for the control loop
I miss that job!
Crazy how so many people here are surprised and impressed by heatpumps in 2024. We've been using heatpump to heat our houses in Quebec for what... 15 years+ ? Aux heat (either resistive or propane/natural gas) as back up and during very cold days only.
I live in the 3rd world and we have a heat pump at my parents house for more than 20 years...
Here in Germany a most of the older houses still have oil and gas heating because it was a solid and cheap method 20-30 years ago. In the current situation with wars, rising fuel prices and a greener mindset most new houses install heat pumps in combination with PV systems.
My parents built there house in 96 and everyone in the area had heat pumps installed
Technically (nearly) everyone has had a heat pump in their house for 50+ years. Just that most of them have only been pumping in one direction.
The US has had cheap gas piped to most homes and heat pumps have improved a lot in the last 20 years.
Replaced our 20 year old standalone AC unit with a variable speed heat pump just two weeks ago. Our 6-year-old gas furnace remains to pick up the load when temps drop into the 20's as a cold climate model like your heat pump makes little sense in the Puget Sound area. Your description of the difference between how heat is delivered to the house from a furnace and a heat pump was the best I've heard yet.
@randalllewis4485 I bought the same heat pump (Daikin DZ6VSA361E) last November and it performed wonderfully during that week long cold spell (18F) here in Portland without kicking in the aux heat strips. COP @ 17F is 2.25; COP @ 47F is 3.30. You had similar weather in Puget Sound.
Switched over to a Heat pump for just over a year now. Except for the few days that drop significantly below -10deg C, the house has used significantly less natural gas and kept the house warm.
Very impressive tech.
Spring starts March 19 so you dont have to use a heat pump
@@thewubmachine840 Heat pumps are used year round.
In Finland I be fine with -20C... Maybe not +25C inside anymore, but plenty :P
how much do you pay for a heat pump + installation in your area?
Here I'd compare ~2-3000€ for a gas unit to ~10-15.000€ for the heat pump + another 20.000€ (~15-20kwp) for the solar panels, if you prefer not to get eaten by 0,3-0,5€ per kwh.
The heat pump may consume less on a monthly basis, yes, but at least in my region it's not worth it. Break Even Point somewhere in 40+ years, most likely more - thats not a good investment.
@@pete5405 Air to air is 2000-3000€. In a big house you could need multiple. For water heating there are a few options but generally around 10k€. For 20-30k€ you can go geothermal.
After watching an hour and 45 minutes of Technology Connection on heat pumps this week (having watched more hours previously) I am happy you are also making a video. People need to be informed about how good these things are!
And there limitations.
I dont know what it is about heat pumps, but for some reason the topic always tends to turn the comment section absolutely insufferable, ranging from "heat pumps are incredible!" to "heat pumps dont work if it's below freezing!" to "how are you just discovering heatpumps, we've had them installed where I live since the 4th century and we're also better looking than you."
Funnily enough they've become a proxy political issue just like everything else.
Probably same reason people are against new stuff like electric cars and solar panels. Here in Czechia basically all new houses are required to have a heat pump, no burning fossil fuels anymore. Some of the cheaper heat pumps do have problems in a big cold like -20°C and then these homeowners are surprised they were getting heat by electricity only and their bills are high. But these people usually don't have their house properly insulated, with triple glass windows etc, so it's not fault of only these cheaper heat pumps.
Heatpumps have been around for quite a while and works fine in very cold temperatures if the right kind of unit is selected. I'm in the northeast and i have been on inverter heat pump heating for years. İ kept my old fuel oil boiler for backup and boy i am glad i did that. When the power goes out, a small generator or a battery is all you need to run the boiler.
I just got a Daikin a few months ago. It's been great so far and has cut my power usage in half.
What was your costs to install?
@@BloopsnBleeps14k in California
Wait until that repair bill hits 😉😘
@@Papasmurph010far better than those junk mr cool units everyone was hwaking and was swooning over 2 years ago daiken isnt cheap cause the parts are better inside
I work for Daikin, nice to see you went with the FIT systems! If you have any questions feel free to reach out. Beware of those press fittings they used though. They brazed on the units themselves I dont know why they just didn't braze everything. Brazing is much better long term. Press fittings will leak much more easily especially if installers don't prep and seat the pipes properly.
Hopefully they were purging nitrogen through the system when they did braze.
Yup nitrogen is needed if they did not do it they will be changing out the filter drier in a couple of years
New refrigerant??? lol 410a has been used for over 20 years and is about to be replaced.
R290 nor far down the road in the US now... propane.
Yes it is being banned next year and no more can be import or made January 2025. The replacement is R32 and R454b both have difluoromethane in their mixture.
@lylestavast7652 R290 won't be used in homes. It was discussed, but EPA said no. It is used in open case coolers and freezers and is limited to 5.25oz. I certainly dont want pounds of propane in my home.😂
its new for the US. they are just getting off R22. its disgaceful how far behind the US is.
Everybody is preparing for the new A2L class which will be the replacement after this year.
I’m an HVACR engineer. Do this day in day out. Strongly disagree on them using the ring lock couplers. Should ALWAYS be brazed unless unsafe or hot works not allowed. There’ll be a leak on them eventually, braze you’ll never have to worry. Many people use them to cut down on time. I get called out and it’s always them that are leaking.
Agreed we ran into them on commerical jobs and the oring is what fails.
In sweden HP has been extremly common in the last 30 years.
I have a Air to water heatpump myself that gives heat to my radiators and hot water. Its great.
Have a heat pump that use the constant 4 degrees that exist in the mountain instead of the outside air. Very cool stuff
@@sys-administrator Which is why heat pumps are usually better off with water based floor heating as the required temperature for that water hovers around 30°C.
@@nilsekluund
Since I only use about 8000kwh per year för heating, going geothermal isn't worth it for us. 😃
@@sys-administratorYou must have very poor isolation then, I can heat my home just fine with 40, just takes a bit longer.
@@sys-administrator You're thinking of it the wrong way around. You dont _NEED_ 65c to heat your home, you need it to compensate for having a high heat loss flat.
Anyway, thats beside the point, a NIBE S2125 will output 65'c water at -25c outdoor temps. Rather lousy efficiency at that point, but still much better than using resistive heating.
My dad does heating and cooling for a living so it's pretty interesting to see this kind of transformation in a household with insane insight, well done Jerry.
Between Alec and now you, I'm extremely confused about the timing of this topic coming up on a second channel that I watch
I hope he got some of his advice from him before picking out a heat pump 😂
Also I’m not a super fan. My name is just Alec too 😂
It must be because of big heat pump
@@AlecInstant Did you ever end up telling your parents they misspelled Alex
There is so much misinformation out there. People replace their systems every day due to age, and many of them are just sticking with what was already there, mainly due to all the confusion. With the right information, you can understand that these modern systems don't require burning stuff, are more comfortable, cost less to run each month, and after incentives cost the same as the older tech new. It's a win on all fronts that everyone should be doing but sadly like I said, most just go with what they had. Knowledge is power.
People trashing heat pumps often overlook the dual fuel option (perhaps deliberately). It dips to -30C here a few weeks a year, but most of the time a heat pump would cover the majority of the heating and cooling needs.
Yep
@Baxtexx Due fuel systems are just wasting more money when NG does well on its own. HP cost double what a good quality AC and high efficiency furance run and last half as long of life span.
@@zack9912000What crusade are you running?
He is right though
@@ulischmidt03 people see heat pumps as a political symbol and feel obligated to object to them. Crazy how people are triggered by air conditioners that run backwards.
Dude these guys hacked your system up!! They didn’t flow nitrogen when they brazed and they knew they were being filmed!! That means they either don’t care or don’t know better . When your heat or ac stops working next season, hope they can fit you into their schedule. Also Your thermostat settings/ wiring are going to determine wether your electric heat is supplemental or auxiliary
Thanks for adding fahrenheit/celsius text overlay 😎 Very cool informative video!
Interesting that you refer to R410a as new..? Here in Norway its essentially completely phased out and replaced with R32.
Yea someone government bureaucratic got their palms grease for this nonsese. I definitely dont want R32 or R454b in my home. difluoromethane is highly flammable and can be explosive. Especially when the new equipment first comes out
@@zack9912000 Yeah, I have never heard of it exploding or causing fires, but I guess its possible. Anyway, I think they are working on banning R32 over the next few years, as its got a really high CO2 equivalent if released into the atmosphere.(1kg of R32 is equal to .6 TONS of CO2 released) 410a is even worse.
I dont know what they're planning to replace it with though, as ammonia for instance isnt CO2 bad, but bad for completely different reasons.
You haven't moved on to the R35 skylines yet?
@@nadirh902 Had to google that, not a car guy :P . But speaking of cars, releasing 1kilogram of coolant roughly equates to a year of driving a combustion car.
@AndersHaalandverby read up on the MSDS for both, and they say the opposite of the environmental nut jubs claim how safe it is.
Have had my Daikin for a few years now and I love it! No more burnt air, just nice warm air
Heat pumps should not cost much more than ACs, all these HVAC companies are price gauging hard. In addition a lot of HVAC companies just install the same capacity heat pump as the gas heaters which are often multiple x overpowered for the house driving up the price. Keep watch and calculate the capacity of heat pump you need yourself.
Should companies lose money on installs?. HPs costs like 30% more to buy than furnaces. And no, technology connections was off on his video
@@LeArmBoss It costs the same to install as an AC unit. Companies should earn obviously but they are price gouging not earning in this case.
I can say this for sure because I have gotten quotes on heatpumps vs AC installs of the same size and the upcharge is huge for no extra labor or skill.
If they cost 30% more to buy, why are they up charging by 300%? A 15kbtu mini split installed in nz is approx $1500usd…
An AC is in fact, a heat pump.
@@Tkaya460 Indeed just with a couple extra values
I am running a Daikin heat pump with in floor heating on my house we built last year. It was amazing over the winter here in the alps. Set and forget ❤
We ha ve had that in cold norway for decades. Having an AC that doubles as heat pump is perfect.
Had a Daiken HP for 25 years in New Zealand. Just have to put half sheet of plywood over the outdoor unit when it snows to keep it from constantly defrosting itself.
Just installed a heat pump water heater yesterday. It'll help cool the garage which is a huge bonus where I live.
As a HVAC Tech I appreciate your interest in it all. It is fascinating, especially when you've got high end fancy equipment.
I installed a Daikin three head a couple days ago. Plus they just made the new R-32 refrigerant that's much friendlier for the environment.
> new refrigerant
This is one of the reasons some people are somewhat wary. If you're purchasing something with a supposedly 30y lifespan and you can purchase a unit that's essentially the same as a unit purchased 30y ago that actually lasted 30y, great. But you can't. And the warranties a) tend to be short, b) tend to have so much fine print that they don't tend to be viewed as reliable themselves, and c) tend to be with companies that you're not sure will last another 30y.
@@TheLoneWolflingyou don't need to swap your refrigerant just because a new one came out lol it's for new installations.
@@jorgebatista6323 I meant for retrofits to add heat pumps to existing houses with "silly" heat bills to try to help bring down said bill. If you have e.g. oil hot water - which many places here do - and it gets below freezing in winter - which it does here - losing heat can very quickly result in burst pipes and a very expensive bill.
@@TheLoneWolfling I get it. But let me tell you, here in Portugal we've been using these heat pumps for like 20+ years, here we just call it AC, and they work very well.
@@jorgebatista6323 Were they running R-32 there 20y ago?
i just play your videos to help me sleep, no offense meant just that the footage and your voice are so soothing
As someone who lives in Australia it completely blows my mind split systems are new in America most rooms in Australia have their own systems
Yeah splittys are the best
Splittys aren't new to the US, old mate already had one, what's new is reverse cycle (hot and cold in one unit).
They are also behind on the times on what gasses are used.
His new unit uses gas that was banned here 10+ years ago for new aircon installs, both cars and homes.
He also had Natural gas heating which is top notch but horrid for the environment (hydrocarbons and such) and some say your health.
Not new, just not practical in some places. Heat pumps are very inefficient when the outside temperature gets below freezing. America is very diverse in terms of climate, especially on the east coast. Florida or Texas for example would benefit from split systems using a heat pump but somewhere it gets far below freezing like North Dakota it would actually be extremely inefficient and could actually leave you in the cold. Lots of homes in America just use central heating and cooling systems because it’s easier for larger homes to have a a couple large units versus a bunch of smaller ones that would struggle to cool a large room.
My geothermal system was just switched on yesterday. It's so cool (and warm!) not to need fossil fuel anymore. Where we live, we don't have gas lines, so I had oil deliveries. How awful. Why did the price of oil go up all of a sudden? Oh man, I ran out of oil? We need a oil delivery. There's a storm coming soon. Ugggh, so happy that's no longer a thing I have to think about. And we switched our cars to EVs (and one PHEV). The last step is getting solar!
Just installed geothermal heat pump.. hole drilled into the ground (250m), cold stuff goes in, warmer stuff comes out. Super convenient, basically "set and forget" and cuts my power usage by a ton. Can also be run "in reverse" during summer to get free cooling/ac. Yay for new tech!
250m down, how much did this whole thing cost!?
@@MrChipchoit's like getting a deep water well drilled, that's done on the regular in some regions.
then instead of a water pump and single pipe, you feed in a loop of pipe and fill the hole back in with soft material. run water through that loop and it can exchange heat with the earth down below.
@@ratchet1freak Thanks, i understand but how much does something like this cost, and where are you from, Canada? (in EU, haven't heard of anyone using this) Deep drilling is usually expensive that's why I'm asking.
@@MrChipcho I know most of this from watching youtube videos from US. You can put the equipment required on a road legal vehicle. That's how most houses in rural areas get their water.
A big part of the cost will be in the pipe and the drillbit that gets left in the hole
@ratchet1freak you've responded twice with long winded comments without answering the simple question.
Our company is an authorized contractor for Daikin in our area and I am the service technician that installs them and fixes them and starts them up. There awesome equipment and have few to no problems with them. Good choice 👍
You'd think the installers would have done a nice job considering they were being filmed and sheer number of people that what this channel, but they have proved me wrong.
Getting a Daikin heat pump with four mini-split heads installed this Friday. Current AC is a fan-forced 12 or 13 SEER unit. New mini-split units are rated at 18 to 20.6 SEER2. We are going to keep our propane furnace for the time being through next winter to see if we need any supplemental heat.
In 2022 57% of newly built houses in Germany installed heat pumps. Conversely, only 6% of existing houses use heat pumps, yet.
One of the best places to use heatpumps all year around and ppl are basically encourages to use gas or oil... It is a real joke 😂
The only reason that is the case is Germany has to import all their NG and propane. If Germany didnt have to do that and could produce their own it wouldnt be the case.
@@rkan2 in cold climates you can't fully replace gas or oil with a heat pump(yet). even in this video of jerryrig in utah, he has two heat pumps AND a gas furnace.
the reason is they get less efficient the more cold it is. so on the most severe cold days, when you need the heat the most, it doesn't produce much heat. it's a rare occurance and we didn't get close to that temp last winter in ontario canada but you dont wanna be shit outta luck when its -40c
@@bmxscape Maybe not where you are from. In Finland probably at least a quarter of houses are heated without gas or oil burners. Only heatpumps with electric obviously as a backup/boost for colder weather. Obviously you need to be able to rely on the electrical grid in your country to be able to do it.
@@zack9912000 Also the comment was about Germany, which is not in a cold climate at all. :D
I installed a 3 zone ductless heat pump in my house this year, and a single zone in my attached home office in 2020. Was very impressed with how quiet they are and how cheap it is compared to other heating method costs.
The moment where I find things really funny... my country house has heated floors, cold and heat air cons... for over 30 years, lately I replaced the outside units with inverter units as they are more efficient and can run the whole day, and I live in the Mediterranean. When they work for cold, the splits cool the air, when they work for heat, they pump hot water through the floor. They also heat the water accumulators for bath and kitchen use, either in the summer or winter. I also collect the distilled water. My system is also Daikin.
I live in the desert Southwest not too far from Utah.
We just installed 3 ductless heat pumps for our house last month. They work wonderful and I am very excited to get my first electric bill in a few weeks for a full month of service.
I'm also very curious as to how they work in the winter as our winters are a little bit more mild than Utah's.
Also I'm pretty excited because my units use solar panels during the day, so in the summer we have free AC when the sun's out.
Can't wait until winter and have free heat also!
I work for an HVAC contractor as an installer. We are a certified Daikin dealer and work closely with the local Daikin reps. I've personally installed well over 100 Daikin fit systems. If the installers don't take the time to do the little things the right way, or if your duct work is undersized or bottlenecked, those systems will give you nothing but problems as they are extremely sensitive. If the installer doesn't purge the lineset with nitrogen when they braze there will be soot that forms on the inside of the lines and it will ruin the metering devices and the electronic expansion valve. And even if everything is done perfectly sometimes they just have problems bc Daikin has some pretty inconsistent manufacturing quality. I personally love the system because my coworker and I take the time to do the little things, but a lot of the guys hate them because they don't.
Which area are you based out of?
In Norway about 40% of all houses use air-to-air heatpumps (27% in 2012), these have the ability to both heat and cool. In our house we got a heatpump in each floor with the support of a fireplace for the really cold winterdays.
Traditional fireplaces are terrible. They are like 5% efficient and emit tons of pollution indoors and are a bad fire hazard.
@@kellymoses8566 You intentionally glazed over the "support of a fireplace for the really cold winterdays." part.
What many US redidents think of a fireplace is not the same as in europe. A pure burning fireplace has about 80% efficiency and does not pollute indoors.
An open fireplace emits about 500w/kg of wood, a modern pure burning fireplace emits up to 3200w/kg of wood.
Heat pumps depend on quite a lot of electricity, doesn't Norway have cheap hydro and (your own) gas generated electricity? makes all the difference to the economics.
I have been pushing heat pump technology since I was about 15. I'm pushing mid-40s. It's about time they start playing with it commercially.
I had heat pumps in a building over 20 years ago just depends the area.
@lylestavast7652 The technology has been around for quite a while, but it's been horribly underutilized.
@@peterbarta1444 Because it stupid compared to NG equipment, NG equipment can work in all environments without needing aux heat. Heatpumps cost more to install, more in repairs, parts are hard to get and they dont last as long. Plus Homeowners cant fix them as they can a NG system. They are more negatives to them than positives.
@@zack9912000Amen, I know a whole development that got rid of their electric heat pumps and went to gas. Mold was growing in the houses because a heat pump can't dry the air out.
@@zack9912000I'm missing where NG works in the summer to cool? Unless you're saying that two separate heating and cooling systems is simpler and easier than..one?
Great explanation for non-technical folks. Getting a heat pump installed today.
I have recently replaced my 20 year old heat pump with a new Trane high efficiency unit. Cut my power usage by almost half, not to mention a pretty nice tax credit. Definitely worth the investment.
Till it breaks and see the repair bills and have to wait weeks for parts
@@zack9912000 I see a liar has joined the chat, basing their opinion on one (1) person who probably got jerked around by an HVAC company (no... that would never happen.)
@@zack9912000Normal ACs work for decades, why would a heat pump, which is essentially the same thing with a reversing valve break down?
10 years ago I replaced an almost 1/4 ton 60 years old oil furnace with an expensive nat gas super efficiency boiler. It paid for itself in 5 years. It is amazing how far we have come.
your heat pump installer did not install condensing drain at bottom of the daikin units outside that's why concrete is wet
Hey! HVAC tech here. The EPA just released a new refrigerant guidelines they want to implement that they are going to be forcing change to through their normal insane price gouging.(and they are going to do it REALLY quick *from what I have heard*) I highly recommend you contact your company who installed it about an extended parts and labor warranty because you , unfortunately, are most likely going to need it regardless what brand you buy and part cost for your units with 410a are going to skyrocket. (The new stuff is either r-32 or r-454b)
R32 is a bit cheaper than R410A and is compatible with many existing 410A systems. Since Daikin is a promoter of R32 I'm sure Zack's unit is dual-rated for both refrigerants.
Crimp joints on refrigeration lines are a bad idea. The constant hot cold changes will kill the olives.
I help run an HVAC business and appreciate this video! I will be sending it to my customers! Just a quick note you said that the slots in the top of your old 80% furnace had CO2 coming out of it or there was potential for it to escape. This is incorrect. The inducer fan motor sucks air (and ignited gas) through the heat exchanger and blows it out the flue pipe. The slots are for air intake only. I don’t want people watching this video thinking their older furnaces may have co2 coming from those slots as it’s impossible for it to do so. Thanks for the thorough video as I sell the Amana version of this equipment!
As cool as this tech is, the sound in the winter hearing the furnace coming alive is peak core memory. The clicking, ignition, a few moments later the heat starts flowing through the vents. Granted my childhood home was a small house and my bedroom was right above the furnace
My closet shares the wall with mine
In Tasmania i have been using Heatpumps to heat and cool my home for the last 25 years,
10 years ago i installed an Air to Water Heatpump to replace our electric 300 litre water heater, they are both great systems and cheap to run.
It amazes me how far behind America is when many parts of the world have been using this technology for 30+ years.
Here in the UK, a heat pump is about ten times the cost of an equivalent gas boiler, and electricity is four times the price of gas. No contest!
Same here, cost me 90 bucks a month to heat with NG and my uncles has a HP that runs his electric bill to almost 500 a month in the cold winter months. Has the highest efficiency inverter system and still struggles.
That condenser shown at 1:25 is a 2000 Lennox HS21 "Innovator" series; the top-of-the-line Lennox model from the time. They were two-stage (featuring a Copeland 2-speed reciprocating compressor), and those old Lennoxes were made during a time when two-stage was luxury. A product ahead of its time for sure
Heat pumps? Here in Sweden they have been the standard way of heating buildings since the 90's.
R22 is an excellent refrigerant, with almost the exact same properties as R290 that is replacing most older type refrigerants like R410a...
Boiling temperature doesn't matter, since it's stated at atmospheric pressure. In a refrigerant system, pressures can go negative to lower the boiling point even further.
USA Ligger efter som vanligt. Är väl forfarande träspån som isolering.
wow - even Bass Ruten posts about heat pumps now! Well done.
We already switched. After some growing pains (ea configuration) it’s great now! We use the newest propane version 👍
Newest isn't propane based. It's a mix of r32 and r1234yf (car refrigerant).
@@LeArmBosswrong. R290 (which is propane) is the newest and the most ecological (at least for now). Technical theres R-454b, which is newer. But not up to buildcode for now. Here around R-454b isn't even acknowledged, it's basically an US thing for now (and in the US not up to code, as i said). I don't know what you want.
We installed three mini split units to replace our 4 ton heat pump from about 13 years ago. I ended up getting one of the outdoor units for free because I screwed something up and they were awesome and sent another one. I had a pro install it all after that. Best decision we made for the house after solar.
Isn't R410a like 2 generations behind and has been replaced first by R32 while currently R290 (propane) is the new hot shit?
Propane is great for warmer ambient temps, it's very efficient. But not as good for very cold places as it has a bit high boiling point.
while the tech may be more efficient, I was 'sold' on getting an air source heat pump AC unit back in 2007. Literally the next year after that our electricity rates rose (first time in 10 years which is what my savings rate was based on) and it continued to increase after that over the next 13 years I owned the property and used the AC heat pump. It never did pay for the incremental increase in cost partly due to that. Also as a whole, we improved the energy efficiency of our home and started using less electricity overall (particularly the last 5 years we lived there). So in retrospect that purchase made ZERO SENSE. While I understand that perhaps today the tech is more efficient and better, you still have to understand your overall usage and amount spent and how buying a less efficient unit for a lesser cost may be more economical for you in the long run. This goes for Furnace as well when comparing high efficiency units to lower efficiency, particularly today with the cost of high efficiency units being sometimes DOUBLE the cost of lower efficiency units. You may use less money to better insulate your home, fix ductwork leaks, and perhaps spend the money on replacement windows and get a lower efficiency furnace and kill two birds with one stone. It all depends.
Hey Jerry, I'm wishing I kept my old dehumidifiers to use as air source cold water warmers...
During the cold
His name is Zack (or Zach?) btw.
I live in a mobile home (1,250 sq. ft.) in Massachusetts and I had one of these systems put in. (different company) In a normal winter, without this system, my electric monthly bill would be $125. This January 2024, with this system in, my bill was $500+.(One month) GOOD LUCK !! Thank God I still have my kerosene heat for back up !! Now I only use the Heat Pump is when the kerosene goes out. They do say it works great in the summer, I'll let you know.
Yep, thats normal when they have issues and they run non stop or the heat pump fails and runs on backup heat strips.😂
Zack has dirt cheap electricity in Utah, I'm sure he'll be saving lots of money.
Obviously your electric rates will go up significantly, but your existing heating system also costs money to use. I'm also in MA and by my calculations on current utility rates a heat pump should be about 30-50% more expensive than gas if you use it the entire year. Since heating oil is more expensive than gas your heat pump _should_ be saving you money if it's properly sized and installed.
Good god guy, there was a allot of inaccuracies in this video. Im frankly a bit surprised because you usually do a pretty good job with the science and facts.
for the HVAC guy that did the brasing: dude really? no nitrogen or even removing the plastic panels or some wet rag? just make a brase so you can go propress? do better man. this setup is expenive and your work will shorten it lifespan. you give our field a bad name.
It looks like he used a wetrag
Great video congratulations on your new Daikin ! These are really good systems and offer the best warranties than any other manufacturer.
🔥❄️💨
Daikin would probably supplied the system with R32 refrigerant in Northern Europe.
Most system use it here.
1/3 global warming- half environmental tax and the gas price around the half versus 410A.
R290 highly flammable, but environmental the best, seen installed in the US these days.
They wont be allowed tonuse R290 here for homes systems. Next year R32 and R454b will be the new refrigerant for the US. R410a is being banned and no more can be prodced or imported January 2025
R290 isn't allowed for home usage in hvac equipment. EPA restrict its usage and in commercial applications is max at 5.25oz due to explosion concerns and it terrible compared to traditional refrigerants.
R32 and R454b will be replacing R410A next year.
People have pipes with highly flammable gas pumped into their kitchens, and nobody seems to worry about that...in the same way that they seem to worry about r290 in heatpumps
It doesn't really make sense
@@kierank01 It makes plenty of sense. The gas coming into your home is not being pumped through your duct work and mixing perfectly with oxygen through in the home if you have a leak. These new refrigerants are highly flammable difluoromethane and if you have a large leak in your system its a bad day. They can claim its low flammable which is bs. Read the msds on R32 and R454b. Government idiots got their palms greased.
We now have to have complete specialized equipment to install them and now add into the mix of all the craiglist installers who butcher work incorrectly, you have a fire asking to happen.
@@zack9912000
A little funny someway since you use gas driven heating system in many homes.
We lost that opportunity at least 50 years ago. Thank God for that.
Still a huge natural gas supplier.
I saw an UA-cam video some days ago from USA and they installed a R290 heat-pump.
May be commercial, but looked like a house installation.
In Europe I have worked with ultra low temperature freezers on hydro carbon and due to restrictions, the allowed charge on two stages is just total 250 grams so the all ULT business is very troublesome since the systems are almost running dry and fail so extensive these days
Woah that cutting attachment for the impact driver was pretty slick!
I just installed a MrCool DIY ducted system in my home, it's amazing! Electric Bill cut in half!
For everyone watching this video. The most important part is that he DID NOT get rid of THE FURNACE. The Heat pumps are awesome. He’s a smart guy so he kept the gas burning machine.
8:17 : "quiet on the outside" - I wonder if your neighbor has the same experience ;) They seem to be quite loud in this video.
Unfortunately that's my experience with those heat pumps, the owner doesn't need to deal with the noise, because he chooses the most convenient place, but the neighbor having his bedroom window within 15 meters tells a different story.
Noisy, and in the UK, very expensive, even with the limited government grants available. The break even point, even with the expensive gas Europe has had to content with for many years now is years and years in the future. I'm afraid, much like electric cars, they are good for people who can already afford the latest tech, but unaffordable for the average person.
Screw the neighbour. Not my fault their window is right next to mine.
They don't seem noisy on video, Zack's voice is coming out a bit louder and I don't see a microphone on him. 15m is definitely enough that the noise won't be a problem.
R410A refrigerant is being phased out. Guys did a good job on installation. Good thing you got rid of those old R22 units. I won’t touch R22 units any longer unless it’s an electrical issue. Even then I recommend replacement.
I've done HVAC-R for 25 years and we have had heat pumps in the south-central part of the United States longer than I've been doing this. The technology has finally made it efficient enough to use in the northern states. personally, I use a Wood firebox outside that heats a water loop that feeds a water coil as my main fuel with a gas Furnace as a backup. No 200-amp service is required and during a power outage, we can have heat still using s small generator.
Just a side note on heat pumps. In most places a totally above ground system is by far the best way to go. However, if you live in an area that gets exceptionally hot or cold you want a geothermal system instead. Since once you get a specific depth below ground the temperature is almost fixed in place you keep a high exchange rate in either cold or hot climates. This can easily raise your costs of install from as little as 3 times to over 10 times an above ground system. Mostly dependent on either the depth of permafrost in cold regions and or layers of solid rock anywhere. Thankfully for this in hotter regions you don't have to go very deep.
Also baring damage from say Earthquakes or landslides, you rarely have to update or replace the underground loops, they can often last longer than the home does.
Excited for this!!!
Daikin is great ! And especially split heat pumps and to the fact these heat pumps can heat the house in the winter but can cool the house in the summer, exactly how you said. Great video.
No nitrogen while brazing and still using zoom lock!!!!! That guy did a horrible install job. Hopefully it wont affect you system too much, but this guy took short cuts that can shorten the lifespan of your unit.
I went with a dual fuel hybrid HVAC system last year. It’s been a great decision and I have saved a ton of money on my heating and cooling costs.
Wait until you try floor heat. 😊 With heat pump. I have Mitsubishi
I wired in a custom home a few years ago that had 2 by6" fully insulated exterior walls and over R50 in the attic. The HVAC company installed two name brand highly rated heat pumps. One for each floor. First winter they had a service call for each unit that was covered under warranty. Next winter two more service calls that think it was the labor was not under warranty and it cost over $400. Third winter repeat but over $500. Finally after the warranty parts was over I convinced the home owner to just run the them in the emergency setting that used cheap natural gas. Homeowners wife was a CPA and keep all the cost and she said that yes running on gas cost more but with the gas furnace never requiring a service call it was more expensive to run the heat pumps with all the expensive service calls.
The ancient heaters don't last forever.
Four times more efficient.
Eh, the furnace in my place is older than I am. (Albeit not by much.)
Just FYI, heat pumps can't handle hard winters. They're great in mild winters, though. It is possible to have a dual system, with a heat pump for mildly cold days and a furnace that will kick in when temps get really low.
Edit: I guess I should have waited to the end to comment. Looks like you covered this. 😁
What installers don't tell you is there is a HUGE market for that reclaimed R-22 coolant. Due to its being replaced by R-410A, the cost of R-22 has skyrocketed. Companies take that reclaimed coolant and resell it back to a customer or sell it to a company that redistributes it.
If you have 8 lbs of R-22, your installer should credit you $800 to $1,200 for the coolant as they'll make that much or more.
there are replacements for the R22 on the market
@@abc123fhdi Unfortunately, unscrupulous repairmen don't bother to tell folks this... especially taking advantage of the elderly.
I was thinking that the installer probably charged him to haul it away and then sold it for quite a lot. Great business.
There's not a huge market for reclaimed r22. R22 hasn't been manufactured since 2010 and systems that use it are old and getting replaced. The stuff that comes out of an old system has to be recycled to be used again, that's why r22 is so expensive, it's not some shady racket.
It is a Federal crime to take it from one person system and use it into anothers system. That is a major EPA fine. We have to turn it in to centers for it to be cleaned and those companies will resell it. We have to pay to dispose of it. It 1500 to 1600 a jug now
I hope those installers were flowing nitrogen or carbon dioxide while brazing to prevent oxide from forming inside the copper. If they didn’t do that, be expecting problems with that electronic expansion valve inside.
Do you really need that extra heating? My 8kW (that's the electric rating) heatpump heats my 2 story home even when it's -25C outside. The only time I had to use separate space heaters was when the electronics failed. But other than that incident, almost 20 years of flawless and emissions-free heating.
Even in TN with our mild winters I've noticed the heat strips kick in on occasion, but the heat pump gets the job done most of the time.
Emission free heating? Are you off the grid with pure renewable energy? If not, then you are using electricity from a utility and that produced emissions.
@@09Cat800many refer to local when they say this. BUT, many utilities are bringing on various methods of emission free production. The giant waterfall near me does a pretty good job of that (if you need a reference older than the typical crying points you hear after your statement. )
There isn't a single state that has 100% emission free energy in the USA so you are still producing emissions unless you are off the grid. My last utility did have 16% from hydro but nowhere near 100% emission free. The rest was coal and natural gas fired power plants. He should say local not 100% emission free. That is naïve to say or even think that. Just like auto manufacturers say zero "tailpipe" emissions on EV cars. They still produce emissions from the electricity they use.
I have had my heat pump for 2 winters now (in Canada) and have been very pleased with it.
isnt it a reverse AC pretty much?
It sure is, it is great.
In simple terms yes. Certainly not great, have more negatives than positives
@@zack9912000 Maybe the other way around.
It’s funny to hear 410a discussed as being so modern when R32 is really the latest standard.
Really hate how a completely new HVAC system costs $15K+ by the time the old unit is removed and new one installed.
Equipment has skyrocketed, majory of the parts are made in Mexico and China. With bidens inflation spending and companies getting materials to build them prices have almost doubled.
Thank you this was a very good explanation as to the difference between an air conditioner and heat pump
Only real fans know his name is Zack.
Please make sure to do a follow up video after your experiences this summer. I have Rocky Mountain Power too. And while my current system is only 14 years old, I'm definitely thinking about this type of upgrade.
I live in Eastern Europe (Romania , the Transylvanian mountain area) and the winter temperature reaches -15/-18 C (-0.4 Fahrenheit for you Americans). I live in a new house, built in 2020 with porotherm bricks, triple glazed windows and very well insulated and for heating we decided to install underfloor heating with heat pumps similar to what is seen in this video and shocking, I know, the cost of heating is enormous...because I have 2 small children, I keep the temperature in the house at 21-22C (71F). After the winter of last year, we decided to give up the heat pumps and installed a gas central heating boiler with condensate pump and my heating bill is half in the winter months now....these heat pumps are not good when it is too cold outside and if you don't start digging trenches in the yard for geothermal heat pumps, it's not worth it... my advice is to stay away from them if you have gas.
Edit: I forgot to put the cost...the heat pump sistem was close to 7000€ (Mitsubishi Electric ZUBADAN, 3 faze 380v unit) and the gas one was 2500€ (Ariston , 35kw unit)
Here in Norway heat pumps are on every other house and have been for a long time. It's great but as it's cheaper to use electricity some tend to use it more than they need creating a larger bill than if they used normal electric ovens. Still drilling down hoping it is not to long down to heat water. Using 2 pipes with a U-bend. It costs to get it started but then it's super cheap :-)
Heat pumps are great if you don’t have natural gas.
But unless you are getting into the exotic geothermal heat pumps, a heat pump isn’t cheaper to use to heat a home.
And once you get below 30 F the heat pump loses a lot of performance.
Heat pumps are rated at BTUH at 45F and 17F. Look at both numbers and find out what your balance point will be.
A lot of the most recent heat pumps are rated for full heating down to between 0-5 degrees F depending on the manufacturer. Most builders also do not perform a real load calculation on the house when sizing a gas furnace and most are grossly oversized. If straight replaced with the same sized heat pump you'll never run into a heat issue. If sized properly on the design day your heat would run constantly at max output. If your gas heat never did that it's oversized. Mine runs only about 50% of the time when outside was -10 degrees meaning its almost double what it truly needed to be.
I've heard similar things to the guy above me. I hear well sized systems work pretty efficiently down to 5 degrees. If it's more efficient most of the year then it's still better, right?
The situation might also be it's slightly less efficient sometimes and way more efficient other times. You have to do the math for your specific situation, right? I trust he did.
@@ceriliousin the UK electricity costs much more so the cost savings can be non existent. A gas boiler is still the way to go.
In most of the US heat pumps are cheaper year-round. Here in Massachusetts (with expensive electricity) an air-air heat pump is currently cheaper than gas when it's more than 45F outside. Heat pump COP drops a bit in the cold but on modern units the capacity stays up until subzero. The heat pump I've been eyeing (Comfort-Aire VCD36) is rated 39kBtu/h@COP 3.18 when it's 47F and it drops to 32kBtu/h@COP 2 when it's 5F outside. That's not a massive drop. Single-speed R22 systems are much worse.
Heat pumps have had a big push in the UK too, but the problem is that electricity here costs 4x as much as gas, meaning they end up being equivalent in running cost. Given that a heat pump is more expensive and more specialised to install than a standard gas boiler, and takes up some external space that not everyone has, it's fair to say most people haven't bothered switching.
I will take effective over efficient any day....
You need Technology Connections crossover.
Nobody has taught me as much about heat pumps as Alec has.
i cant believe Americans are only just starting to use and and rave on about heat pumps. Australia and Europe has been using them since the dawn of time why is it suddenly such big news in north America
But only 55,000 uk residents out of 60 million use heat pump in their home. Glad im one of them. 0.19% of uk population. 14% United States. Actually, it's higher in the United States.
Rebates are always nice for switching over
ANOTHER AD VIDEO???????
This was a super informational video for me. And i do HVAC in the SLC area.
You had enough of ALL THE FREE INFORMATION on this channel?
Great explanation! We have ours here in Amarillo, Tx. Our coldest temps hover around the low single digits for about a week or two. Sometimes wind chills take us lower. We’ve been lucky our heat pump works great even at those temps. I’m honestly not even sure if our emergency heat has ever turned 🤷🏻♂️