I have the perfect solution, make the zeke plan, but instead of giving the founder to Historia or her son, lets transform one of them into pure titan and keep it completely immobilized so it will live forever, meanwhile pass the founder from normal person to person until no-one is left about 80-100 years from that and whenever marley tries something they show som rumbling power so they back down. This is supposing that the contact with the pure titan is enough to use all the founders power, something that we dont really know
but also the problem comes that marley and other world would still attack develop like insanely good tech and paradis would fall one day like marley could develop insanely good weapons that can easly kill collosal titans
Another UA-camr brought up a really good point: The success of the 50 year plan depends on 2 Titan shifters being in close proximity for the next 50 years, while having the same antinatalist beliefs, and avoiding assassins from the outside world who are fully capable of infiltrating Paradis as seen with Pieck and co. Does this sound like a feasible plan???
It doesn't but I do believe Zeke did mention that he was planning to do a partial Rumbling to destroy the world's military forces and make it very hard to rebuild from scratch, which would give them enough time to live out the rest of their lives probably.
I appreciate a good theory/speculation video, sorry if this takes away 75% of the script, but- 1:54 This is actually the plan as explicitly explained by Yelena in chapter 116. they'd pick loyal yeagerists to pass the titan on until Historia's baby passes away from natural causes(the youngest of Eldians), yaegerists have proven to be very loyal in their cause- and by being the central power of Paradis they can always arrange ways to keep the host of the founding titan away from historia and her baby. 4:00 shifter's aren't immune to having their bodies manipulated by a 'new founder'(as you seem to allude to), Frida just didn't have the experience to _command_ them on their titan form(erasing memories of her sister and commanding titans isn't the same thing). even if it somehow were true that shifters would not be affected instantly somehow, it's more of a non-issue sense _Eren_ is the one who was meant to carry out the plan- he has already been shown capable of stopping Reiner on his tracks, even Zeke could have an easy time doing it- he commands pure titans with ease, so if manipulating shifter/titan biology would somehow be different- it's not like they are strangers to it (plus, if it did take a bit of time, how long do you think they'd have to procreate before Eren and Zeke 'figure it out'.But let's say that it doesn't work on them, and they somehow do procreate before Zeke and Eren figure it out- their offsprings would still be in the same generation as Historia's baby, the Endian bloodline and more specifically the Titan curse dies with that final generation.). 4:11 Is a also non issue, Ackerman's can't turn into titans(tho they don't know cus there's so few of them, hence why Kenny considered using the spinal fluid), _if_ they have enough genes to be considered titan shifting Eldians, they have enough genes to be euthanized by the founder (tho I could also see a compromise happen where their Eldian genes are simply not able to be passed on, so again- no titan curse). now don't get me wrong, it's still a flawed plan(as flawed as the rumbling imo, if not slightly less so), but there's plenty to show thought put into it. the major downside to the plan is centered around the fact that they didn't know that the founding titan powers on Paths _only_ worked for the royal family; meaning potentially leaving the future up to historia's baby, whom could grow to have an opposite ideology(trying to indoctrinate him can back fire as seen with Zeke). that is of course- until Eren freed Ymir from obeying the royal bloodline, which immediately enacts the rumbling...tho- perhaps if Eren was on board, he could maybe still deliver a similar speech so that Ymir can't be ordered exclusively by the royal bloodline, and so the loyal yagerists onboard with Zeke's plan are in control and historia's baby can't change things. tl;dr: there are not as many holes as you think there are, it's very likely it could've succeeded.
@SaoCode871 Eren's mass-genocide would still lead to another century of war, Eldians where ALREADY killing each other over the war, give them the rest of the world to re-populate, grow new civilizations with less hands to work it, naturally leading to new cultural divides and wars, not to mention the STILL lingering titan power. So no, Eren's friends winning is not an effective alternative. But what makes it even less of a 'Fool proof' plan is the fact he had NO real idea that Armin would actually successfully convince the surviving Marleys that they can be trusted as new heros, because 1. Eren is dead by that point and so is Ymir's power, so no way he would *see* that his plan works. and 2. we immediately see Marley survivors point their guns at Eren's friends after the titan curse is lifted because they still have to make a trust decision that they aren't lying about the titan curse being fully lifted. Marley's fears are still fully present, resentment for the Eldians is still very real after the biggest genocide in history, and Jaegerist who fully belived Eren's cause are STILL at play and will pass down that extreme rhetoric. this reality is fully justified by the series, many years later Paradis still gets completely bombed, and while I also think there's a more nuanced message about the possibility of a bright future taking place after Eren's mistakes, I can't underestimate the fact the show itself makes it clear Eren is dumb country kid that got too much power and wrapped up in the cyclical spiral of War. If you wanna talk about redundant plans, Eren's plan in both outcomes still leads to more war except with an exceedingly, ludicrously higher number of innocent casualties that are lost in the process. As for Zeke's plan and historia or her son un-doing a previous founding titan alteration, we don't really know if that's possible, but even if so, Zeke would've had the Yeagerists to survey and protect History and her son, Loyal Yeagerists will partake in the ritual to pass on the founding titan (like the royal family did before), and if they turn into pure titans that just means the current founding titan can touch them to use the founding titan powers. But I hear you, if Historia or her son are THAT much against it, Ymir listens to them over the Yeagerists in PATHS. and still we have more reason to believe they'd comply with Zeke's plan as it actually keeps away Marley and de-escalates things by also lessening the eyes on them as a genuine threat. most importantly imo, it gives an expiration date for Marley's Titans. Marley has met resistance with other nations, they were just at war when they failed to capture the founding titan, Marley and other nations learned that technology was not too far from catching up with Titan power. Meaning Marley's un-contested main military power suffers the most with time (they knew this, that was the whole point of really pushing Eren for war asap and capture the founding titan to maintain that status, Eren only aided them at this) if Paradis was smart and Eren wasn't a snake eating itself, they would've played it out. Zeke's plan would be the most likely to put more pressure onto Marley again, not only proving that their propaganda is wrong and Eren won't do the world-ending rumbling (they'll die of old age instead), and only eliminate fort Salta which severely weakens Marley, like i said it gives Titan powers a permanent expiration date of which other nations like the ones involved in the middle-eastern war can actually become a threat again and make Marley too busy trying to re-cover + re-militarize to fend off other threatening nations waiting for the time to attack as Marley's oppressive structure crumbles. TL;DR: Zeke's plan isn't completely fool proof, but it actually can lead to a better future for everyone via many options at hand and the buying of time. Eren's comes at an insane cost with an insane gamble he didn't know the full results of (he dies before he sees weather or not Marley accepts Paradis after Eren's Massacre and de-powering of Titan power) and with un realistic expectations that ignore the reality of Paradis being a threat even to itself with civil war due to people/yeagerists like Floch whom Eren could've saved/helped if Eren wasn't basically the avatar of War itself capitalizing over it and reaching senseless point of no return.
I knew Zeke or Armin’s plan would fail no matter what. Armin’s plan was to cause a mini rumbling to have Paradis safe for 50 years but they’ll lose after those years. Zeke’s whole euthanasia plan won’t work like how you said in the video (Royal family will be there for 26 years) . I assume they’ll keep a royal blood pure Titan or keep three families not sterile as breeding but they can just undo the sterilization like you said. Even before this video I highly doubt that Marley will let Eldians free for 100 years because they still will use the last eldians as weapons Edit: I think they’ll pass down the founding Titan to other people because they can’t have children until there’s old people
Armin plan would have worked if in those 50 years Paradis people continues to modernize and, more importantly, does an amazing diplomatic job in making new alliances and changing the old idea of the eldian demons. During those 50 years obviously they have to mantain a certain level of threat to the world with all their colossal titans. The problem with this is that all the successors of the attack and founding titans needs to follow this idea.
@@edoval1029 your absolutely right but the eren refuses the idea due that nothing else would change. The whole world would still be against eldia unless there's a way to break the cycle of hatred.
The royal family would never get the founder, how is everybody missing that? The second either of them would get the founder, they would revert to king fritz philosophy.
the problem is that eldia, fritz's dynasty, acknowledged their founders' sins but made nothing to solve them instead accepting the same wrongs done to them and living in "peace" until that time came. nothing's really changed inside. how can you keep a country like that safe ?
The random guy with the founder’s power would not be able to reverse the sterilisation as the founder Ymir only takes commands from royal family members. If he came in contact with historia, he would only be able to control pure titans, like what happened when Eren came in contact with Dina.
Pretty much, the whole reason why Eren was able to override Zeke’s orders when he did was because he was able to empathize with her which would be a very rare occurrence. He not only empathized with her, he saw her as a human, not a god or a slave.
Honestly the whole not having enough Eldians with royal blood could be potentially solved by having a royal blood member use the power of the founder to genetically modify a random Eldian to make them have royal. Although it’s hard to say it’ll even work, the founder was said to be able to make every Eldian immune to a disease so its possible.
When you say better... In what sense... It's better. For paradise island....eren's plan is the best one. When we talk about plans.... We talk about success rate for a person who wants to achieve it. Eren's plan was the best plan for everything he wanted....but zeke's plan would leave him with nothing but disappointment cuz it would not create the results he wants. Eren plan isn't even a plan.... It is consequence of every mistake made by humanity throughout the history. The story says "if humanity keep repeating these mistakes... This will be the end result... The devil like eren will be born who will bring out the promised judgment day"
@@PrinceKumar-yz8nl bro for paradise island zeke plan was better in the last panel of aot paradis island got destroyed cuz humanity took their revenge since eren killed many innocent people if we are being honest all their plans are bad but eren plan isnt for paradis its more for his friends eren isnt this hero you think he is, he only cares about his friends lives
@@PrinceKumar-yz8nl bro you need to rewatch aot the only people who attacked paradis island were the marleyians and the warriors the rest of the world didnt take action because they were scared of the rumbling so why would billions of people die for the actions of marley and the warriors ?
@@RicardJryou do realize Marley declared war on paradi and told the world to join them in exterminating the devils of paradi. The rest of the world was fully complicit in eldians on paradi being completely wiped out. Which is an ethnic genocide
@@RicardJr seems like you need to rewatch it too since Marley through the Willy Tyber had convinced the world to ally itself with them in their plan to destroy the Eldians of Paradis since Marley turned the world against Eldians. No matter what Eren did that night, the world wanted to destroy the Eldians.
What? The founder was never going to go to historia or her kid, as if either of them got the power they would be poisoned with the same philosophies and beliefs of king fritz. The idea was to have them live and be royalty just chilling there, as a deterrent if they would need to use it. The kid could live it’s entire life, the founder keeps getting passed on, and the beast I suppose could be held by a neutral party in the meantime, unless needed in which case the one with the founder holds down the beast so historia or her kid could become the beast
With the 26 year thing there's a pretty easy solution. Just give the Beast Titan to a non royal blooded Eldian and then if Paradis needs to use the founding Titan give the beast to Historia or her child.
Frieda lost to Grisha becuz she was still bound by the Karl Fritz's will and didn't have full access to Founding Titan powers. Rod mentions inexperience becuz without founding titan powers, both r regular titans with no special abilities like armor, warhammer or nuke. Just combat experience.
Theres.... alot of things wrong with the video. a) A random person with founding CAN'T command the founder. And Zeke knew this. If a random with the founder gets royal contact, they only get command over pure titans for a brief period (IE; Eren touching Dina). Eren gets to Ymir in the paths because Zeke brings him there, but its Zeke (IE; The Royal) that bring him there and has the control. Eren even says that. Even then, Eren has no power there. Zeke (aka, the Royal) is the one able to command Ymir. Eren does not command, control or order Ymir. He wakes her up. At no point does he tell her to do anything it. He tells her she DOESN'T have to do anything. She doesn't have to be a slave. Thats she not a slave, a god. Shes just a person. And she wakes up. My understanding of that situation is that what follows is not Eren controlling or commanding her. They are both in a state of wanting to destroy the whole world and work together. So unless David also has a unrivalled, unparrelled strength of will and burning desire to see the whole world burn beneath thier feet. Then no, they aren't going to get any sort of founding power ability. It also doesn't work with the remaining royal commanding because, they will be utterly bound preventing them from using the founder due to the direct decendancy from the First King of the Walls (Zeke's binding was far weaker as he was NOT directly descended from him). So you whole reset point is completely mute. b) His plan wasn't to use mind control to make Subjects not reproduce. His plan was to use it to biologically change them so that could not reproduce. So they couldn't just, reproduce when the mind control doesn't work because it isn't about mind control, they have been biologicially and genetically changed to be unable to reproduce. c) Yeah Ackerman thing is fair, however I think there general assumption is that they can't become or inherent Titans anyway. They would still be a family of god tier super soldiers, however since the ackermans consider purely of Levi and Mikasa at this point, unless one of them decides to leave the island and reproduce with someone who isn't eldian then that line dies out with thier death too. Now, there are absolutely issues with the how the plan really keeps everyone safe until they die of old age... but I don't think Zeke actually cared that much about that part. Zeke's true goals was the make all eldians unable to reproduce, ensuring that the would eventually die out and the whole titan problem would be gone. At no point when he speaks with Ksaver does he mention ensuring the Eldian people long peaceful lives until death. Only to ensure no eldians will ever be born again. So yes, I believe that part of the plan doesn't work. There are ways around some of the obvious issues (Don't have historia immediately inherit a titan, essentially keep a titan shifter on standby to be eaten by historia/child as an when needed to activate the rumbling in case of an attack.).
I'm confused about the part where the founding titan will be pass down in royal blood, they have the vow renouncing war right? how can they defend themselves with the partial rumbling
The actual issue is that not all eldians are influenced by the founding titan, only the subject of Ymir (who are the majority of eldians) are influenced by it, but not all eldians are subject of Ymir. The eldians in inside the walls who aren't affected by the founding titan's power didn't had their memory wiped out, so the governement made them noble and allowed them to live in the wall shina in exchange for their silence. Basically, the elite of Eldia would still be able to reproduce.
i agree, but doesn't historia or her child have to be a titan/-shifter to help eren redo the euthanasia? if so, they would have had to make historia/or child eat zeke before they could do this...
I see what you're saying, but given what happened when Eren touched Historia's hand, I have my doubts about the necessity of the royal also needing to be a titan. That being said, every time Eren actually USED the founder, it was when touching a titan or a shifter in human form.
The major problem I have with Zeke’s plan is that it wouldn’t get rid of death and destruction. Ignoring the fact that the people of Marley wouldn’t care about waiting for the Eldians die out on their own, once they are all dead, humanity will just look to another group of people to be their scapegoat like how Marley did with the Eldians. There is also the fact that forced sterilization is a form of genocide that has been used in the real world which is what Zeke is doing. People don’t realize that all the sides in the series are calling for genocide when they declare Eren is doing genocide, even the alliance are teaming up with people who not that long ago wanted to commit mass genocide against them. While what Eren did was horrible, I don’t have to fear giant monsters stomping across the globe like I would forced sterilization or a giant propaganda machine turning the world against one group of people which is what Zeke and Marley did and those instances are actual ways someone in the real world can commit genocide.
Humanity would do that anyways even if Eren stomps it all down. I'd rather have one group die out and let the rest of humanity survive. What Eren did was to give his friends peace. Otherwise what's the point if he knows it's all gonna happen again anyways.
@@Izzy_ez_ I guess you are going to ignore me saying that if we go with Zeke’s plan they are just going to find another scapegoat to do the same thing to and humanity will continue doing this until they are all dead, so no humanity is not going to live on because it looks like no matter what route they take they are just going to keep killing each other until they are all dead. I also bet that the group of people who would die out in your scenario wouldn’t feel grateful that they are being killed off for the rest of the world. That is why I say that no matter what side you choose in Attack on Titan, you are supporting some form of genocide. I bet Eren felt that the sacrifice was worth it for the Eldians especially his friends to live on and he didn’t want them to all die for a group of people who hated them.
It's still not the same, Zeke wanted to save humanity, he wanted to end his own bloodline for the greater good, wich proves he wasn't doing it out of selfishness, he was going to suffer, this isn't something you can hate. Eren's genocide in the other hand is actually what makes genocide so despicable : a crazy amount of bloodshed of innocent people just for domination or anger. Besides, Zeke's plan wasn't about massacring people, just not giving them the ability to reproduce. So yeah even if it can be called a genocide, it has nothing to do with the genocide people have in mind, the genocide that we actually hate.
Zeke's plan could work in the following way , let me know if I'm wrong tho, The ackerman was a good point, but it is very very safe to assume that the founder is way stronger than ackerman blood, after all, when Eren made his announcement about war to the whole world ,even Levi was brought into the Path's world, So let's say the Ackerman gets Euthanized too So, Zeke will die in 1 year or less as he had beast for 12 years now, 13 is limit, Currently in the entire world there are only 3 Eldian with Royal Blood, Zeke,Historia,And the Child of historia born on day of Rumbling. We all know Founder's powers need Royal Blood to Unlock, So when you said the entire eldian race has to agree for this plan to work ,that isn't actually true Zeke dies in 1 year ,so he's out, remaining royal eldian in the world is 2 now. Zeke just needs to convince historia that , you keep the founder for 13, then let your baby keep the founder for 13 , thats 26, and after 26 both historia and the baby would die,cause curse of ymir, so there is no more royal blood, then the founder will randomly go to a Non Royal Eldian, cause there is literally no Royal blood eldian left. And without the royal blood, a common eldian guy(grisha) no matter holds the founder for how long ,cant really do shit, let alone Revert the euthinaztion. So key point is ,convince historia and her child, Everyone needs to keep Historia and her child Safe for the first 26 years , so that Marley doesnt attack Paradis ,takes the founder , kidnaps a royal blood , feeds the founder to a common eldian back on marley and make the common eldian now with founder touch royal blood(either historia or her kid) Best way to prevent is ,zeke still has 1 year left right ,he should use wall maria's titans for Rumbling Show off and that ought to keep Marley away from Paradis for 50 years or so, and we just need to hold of for 26 years ,once they historia and her kid dies , with no royal blood eldian left in the world and no way to access the founder ,i say give the founder to marley and do whatever the fuck they wanna do ,cause eventually after 70 or 80 years all eldians gonna die and after that every single generation will be war with humans only ,no titans, ig so, idk bout the halluciginea ,that shit just doesnt die. Ig when the last eldian dies after 70 or 80 years ,who as the last living common eldian would ofc inherit the founder, after that dies, there would grow another tree ,just like in case of eren's grave? Could be, but yeah this is how Zeke's plan could perfectly work, and personal opinion, with a bit of persuasion,for the greater good zeke can convince historia.
Now the real talk What plan can we make that keeps the island safe while dettering the other nations from attacking with no human casualties? This is fucking impossible
Can you cite where you get this idea that the founder can control shifters? I consider myself pretty well read on the manga, and this is the first time I've ever heard of it.
When Reiner says to Gabi that Eren can now stop the shifters from using their powers and that there's nothing they can do but run, after Eren activates the Rumbling and undos all hardening in the world. Additionally when Eren speaks to the alliance in the plane and tells them that he won't take away their shifter powers because he wants at least them to have the freedom to try and stop him if they can.
Zeke's plan is beyond suicidal. He's basically proposing committing genocide on your own people, so you don't go to war and kill the enemy that wants you death. All for the sake of the enemy, not yours. It's similar to that idea Armin mocked: "What, you can't have a war if there's no people? It's like a bad joke! Who would take it seriously?"
Because Zeke could look at his own people objectively. It's not something superficial like having a different religion or skin colour. His people literally turn into GIANT MONSTERS with just a tiny dose of spinal fluid. Like it or not, you have to admit that's a huge security risk for the rest of humanity. He's kind of like those main characters in werewolf stories, who hate themselves and want to find a way to kill themselves in order to protect everyone around them.
Zeke has a sense of guilt for what his people have done in the past with the titan powers. Also he realised even if he erased titan powers the world would still be prejudiced against his people
Heres the thing, you just need like 6 other anti natalist non royals and one royal all hidden away for about 80 years. They all, one after the other become the founder while the royal blood stays there with them to allow for the partial rumbling. The only way the plan fails is through betrayal. Alternatively, eren could just kill himself after an year of the euthanasia going into effect, since no new eldians would be born, noone would inherite the founder. Marley would oppress the remaining eldians, which wouldnt be very nice but a couple thousand eldian suffering compared go literally everyone outside paradis being rumbled sounds better
Subjects of Ymir are able to turn into titans, not Eldians specifically just to let you. I'm sure there's at least a small fraction of Eldians on Paradis who aren't Subjects of Ymir.
It's said that most of the nobles, such as the puppet king Fritz, are actually from a tribe of Eldians who never recieved any ancestry from Ymir.@@AngelArm1110
The attack titan does not follow orders. There wass a whole episode where they ralked about this. My theory is yhe attack titan is who was controlling eren Not the other way around
But when I say to dog owners who neuters their dog that this is taking away a part of them away and calling it "the best for them" when in reality it's only the best for their wallet they call me crazy.
Zeke was too nice he should have killed all eldians or take away the ability to transform into a titan With erens plan there is still the problem of the titans. Every 13 years an eldian has to be eaten by another and there could be civil wars as the attack titan searches freedom
Perhaps the biggest part of Eren's plan which was not disclosed till the end was the destruction of the Power of the Titans. It seemed to be one of the primary things he was going for, while keeping his friends safe. He knew he would be the last to weild the Founder.
ackermanns aren't eldians, they don't become titans. even half ackermanns don't. race would still be wiped. you ain't as smart as zeke my guy. you could also hide when the founding titan is inexperienced by changing the inheritance time to something other than a routine 13 years.
@@videodimension69 you forget that only touching a royal blood person is not enough to control the founders power, if it was so easy Eren would have done it only touching Historia when he visited her in the farm. Eren would need to touch a royal blood pure titan or royal blood titan shifter like Dina or Zeke.
I have the perfect solution, make the zeke plan, but instead of giving the founder to Historia or her son, lets transform one of them into pure titan and keep it completely immobilized so it will live forever, meanwhile pass the founder from normal person to person until no-one is left about 80-100 years from that and whenever marley tries something they show som rumbling power so they back down. This is supposing that the contact with the pure titan is enough to use all the founders power, something that we dont really know
Poor ymir
I thought the same
yea only problem is so many people gets sacrificed for that plan but ig better than rumbling
but also the problem comes that marley and other world would still attack develop like insanely good tech and paradis would fall one day like marley could develop insanely good weapons that can easly kill collosal titans
@@NokikkoBsThey could sue for peace. Marley wouldn't need to attack if they know the titan threat has been neutralized.
Another UA-camr brought up a really good point:
The success of the 50 year plan depends on 2 Titan shifters being in close proximity for the next 50 years, while having the same antinatalist beliefs, and avoiding assassins from the outside world who are fully capable of infiltrating Paradis as seen with Pieck and co.
Does this sound like a feasible plan???
Exactly bruh zeke has a monke brain 🙊🦧🦧
@@bruh_moment2833 At least he returned to monkey succes-fully 👌
Not necessarily two titan shifter, it may work with one shifter and one or more royal blood pure titans
He can just make a vow that changes their ideology and make Ymir sterilise only those without royal blood.
It doesn't but I do believe Zeke did mention that he was planning to do a partial Rumbling to destroy the world's military forces and make it very hard to rebuild from scratch, which would give them enough time to live out the rest of their lives probably.
I appreciate a good theory/speculation video, sorry if this takes away 75% of the script, but- 1:54 This is actually the plan as explicitly explained by Yelena in chapter 116. they'd pick loyal yeagerists to pass the titan on until Historia's baby passes away from natural causes(the youngest of Eldians), yaegerists have proven to be very loyal in their cause- and by being the central power of Paradis they can always arrange ways to keep the host of the founding titan away from historia and her baby.
4:00 shifter's aren't immune to having their bodies manipulated by a 'new founder'(as you seem to allude to), Frida just didn't have the experience to _command_ them on their titan form(erasing memories of her sister and commanding titans isn't the same thing). even if it somehow were true that shifters would not be affected instantly somehow, it's more of a non-issue sense _Eren_ is the one who was meant to carry out the plan- he has already been shown capable of stopping Reiner on his tracks, even Zeke could have an easy time doing it- he commands pure titans with ease, so if manipulating shifter/titan biology would somehow be different- it's not like they are strangers to it (plus, if it did take a bit of time, how long do you think they'd have to procreate before Eren and Zeke 'figure it out'.But let's say that it doesn't work on them, and they somehow do procreate before Zeke and Eren figure it out- their offsprings would still be in the same generation as Historia's baby, the Endian bloodline and more specifically the Titan curse dies with that final generation.). 4:11 Is a also non issue, Ackerman's can't turn into titans(tho they don't know cus there's so few of them, hence why Kenny considered using the spinal fluid), _if_ they have enough genes to be considered titan shifting Eldians, they have enough genes to be euthanized by the founder (tho I could also see a compromise happen where their Eldian genes are simply not able to be passed on, so again- no titan curse).
now don't get me wrong, it's still a flawed plan(as flawed as the rumbling imo, if not slightly less so), but there's plenty to show thought put into it. the major downside to the plan is centered around the fact that they didn't know that the founding titan powers on Paths _only_ worked for the royal family; meaning potentially leaving the future up to historia's baby, whom could grow to have an opposite ideology(trying to indoctrinate him can back fire as seen with Zeke). that is of course- until Eren freed Ymir from obeying the royal bloodline, which immediately enacts the rumbling...tho- perhaps if Eren was on board, he could maybe still deliver a similar speech so that Ymir can't be ordered exclusively by the royal bloodline, and so the loyal yagerists onboard with Zeke's plan are in control and historia's baby can't change things.
tl;dr: there are not as many holes as you think there are, it's very likely it could've succeeded.
@SaoCode871 Eren's mass-genocide would still lead to another century of war, Eldians where ALREADY killing each other over the war, give them the rest of the world to re-populate, grow new civilizations with less hands to work it, naturally leading to new cultural divides and wars, not to mention the STILL lingering titan power. So no, Eren's friends winning is not an effective alternative.
But what makes it even less of a 'Fool proof' plan is the fact he had NO real idea that Armin would actually successfully convince the surviving Marleys that they can be trusted as new heros, because 1. Eren is dead by that point and so is Ymir's power, so no way he would *see* that his plan works. and 2. we immediately see Marley survivors point their guns at Eren's friends after the titan curse is lifted because they still have to make a trust decision that they aren't lying about the titan curse being fully lifted.
Marley's fears are still fully present, resentment for the Eldians is still very real after the biggest genocide in history, and Jaegerist who fully belived Eren's cause are STILL at play and will pass down that extreme rhetoric. this reality is fully justified by the series, many years later Paradis still gets completely bombed, and while I also think there's a more nuanced message about the possibility of a bright future taking place after Eren's mistakes, I can't underestimate the fact the show itself makes it clear Eren is dumb country kid that got too much power and wrapped up in the cyclical spiral of War.
If you wanna talk about redundant plans, Eren's plan in both outcomes still leads to more war except with an exceedingly, ludicrously higher number of innocent casualties that are lost in the process.
As for Zeke's plan and historia or her son un-doing a previous founding titan alteration, we don't really know if that's possible, but even if so, Zeke would've had the Yeagerists to survey and protect History and her son, Loyal Yeagerists will partake in the ritual to pass on the founding titan (like the royal family did before), and if they turn into pure titans that just means the current founding titan can touch them to use the founding titan powers. But I hear you, if Historia or her son are THAT much against it, Ymir listens to them over the Yeagerists in PATHS. and still we have more reason to believe they'd comply with Zeke's plan as it actually keeps away Marley and de-escalates things by also lessening the eyes on them as a genuine threat.
most importantly imo, it gives an expiration date for Marley's Titans. Marley has met resistance with other nations, they were just at war when they failed to capture the founding titan, Marley and other nations learned that technology was not too far from catching up with Titan power. Meaning Marley's un-contested main military power suffers the most with time (they knew this, that was the whole point of really pushing Eren for war asap and capture the founding titan to maintain that status, Eren only aided them at this) if Paradis was smart and Eren wasn't a snake eating itself, they would've played it out.
Zeke's plan would be the most likely to put more pressure onto Marley again, not only proving that their propaganda is wrong and Eren won't do the world-ending rumbling (they'll die of old age instead), and only eliminate fort Salta which severely weakens Marley, like i said it gives Titan powers a permanent expiration date of which other nations like the ones involved in the middle-eastern war can actually become a threat again and make Marley too busy trying to re-cover + re-militarize to fend off other threatening nations waiting for the time to attack as Marley's oppressive structure crumbles.
TL;DR:
Zeke's plan isn't completely fool proof, but it actually can lead to a better future for everyone via many options at hand and the buying of time. Eren's comes at an insane cost with an insane gamble he didn't know the full results of (he dies before he sees weather or not Marley accepts Paradis after Eren's Massacre and de-powering of Titan power) and with un realistic expectations that ignore the reality of Paradis being a threat even to itself with civil war due to people/yeagerists like Floch whom Eren could've saved/helped if Eren wasn't basically the avatar of War itself capitalizing over it and reaching senseless point of no return.
Ackermans were never impacted by the founders memory wipe. It’s the reason they were hunted down
Like your narration, keep up the good work 💪
Thanks mate!
I knew Zeke or Armin’s plan would fail no matter what. Armin’s plan was to cause a mini rumbling to have Paradis safe for 50 years but they’ll lose after those years. Zeke’s whole euthanasia plan won’t work like how you said in the video (Royal family will be there for 26 years) . I assume they’ll keep a royal blood pure Titan or keep three families not sterile as breeding but they can just undo the sterilization like you said. Even before this video I highly doubt that Marley will let Eldians free for 100 years because they still will use the last eldians as weapons
Edit: I think they’ll pass down the founding Titan to other people because they can’t have children until there’s old people
Armin plan would have worked if in those 50 years Paradis people continues to modernize and, more importantly, does an amazing diplomatic job in making new alliances and changing the old idea of the eldian demons. During those 50 years obviously they have to mantain a certain level of threat to the world with all their colossal titans.
The problem with this is that all the successors of the attack and founding titans needs to follow this idea.
@@edoval1029 your absolutely right but the eren refuses the idea due that nothing else would change. The whole world would still be against eldia unless there's a way to break the cycle of hatred.
The royal family would never get the founder, how is everybody missing that? The second either of them would get the founder, they would revert to king fritz philosophy.
the problem is that eldia, fritz's dynasty, acknowledged their founders' sins but made nothing to solve them instead accepting the same wrongs done to them and living in "peace" until that time came. nothing's really changed inside. how can you keep a country like that safe ?
Huh that wasn't armin's plan, that was zeke's front plan to fool everyone while keeping his real plan hidden
I've always seen it this way
Eren - Anger ( rumbling )
Scouts - Negotiating ( esp Armin )
Zeke - Acceptance
These are the 5 stages of grief btw
I only see 3
@@belisariolll5111 google the rest ;)
Information is out there
That adds up to 3 dumbass.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Mikasa - denial (thinking Eren could be saved)
The random guy with the founder’s power would not be able to reverse the sterilisation as the founder Ymir only takes commands from royal family members. If he came in contact with historia, he would only be able to control pure titans, like what happened when Eren came in contact with Dina.
Pretty much, the whole reason why Eren was able to override Zeke’s orders when he did was because he was able to empathize with her which would be a very rare occurrence. He not only empathized with her, he saw her as a human, not a god or a slave.
@@morganyoung3557 that was kinnda plot armour but it was nice that someone told ymir the reality
Honestly the whole not having enough Eldians with royal blood could be potentially solved by having a royal blood member use the power of the founder to genetically modify a random Eldian to make them have royal. Although it’s hard to say it’ll even work, the founder was said to be able to make every Eldian immune to a disease so its possible.
Still better than Eren's plan
When you say better... In what sense... It's better.
For paradise island....eren's plan is the best one.
When we talk about plans.... We talk about success rate for a person who wants to achieve it.
Eren's plan was the best plan for everything he wanted....but zeke's plan would leave him with nothing but disappointment cuz it would not create the results he wants.
Eren plan isn't even a plan.... It is consequence of every mistake made by humanity throughout the history.
The story says "if humanity keep repeating these mistakes... This will be the end result... The devil like eren will be born who will bring out the promised judgment day"
@@PrinceKumar-yz8nl bro for paradise island zeke plan was better in the last panel of aot paradis island got destroyed cuz humanity took their revenge since eren killed many innocent people if we are being honest all their plans are bad but eren plan isnt for paradis its more for his friends eren isnt this hero you think he is, he only cares about his friends lives
@@PrinceKumar-yz8nl bro you need to rewatch aot the only people who attacked paradis island were the marleyians and the warriors the rest of the world didnt take action because they were scared of the rumbling so why would billions of people die for the actions of marley and the warriors ?
@@RicardJryou do realize Marley declared war on paradi and told the world to join them in exterminating the devils of paradi. The rest of the world was fully complicit in eldians on paradi being completely wiped out. Which is an ethnic genocide
@@RicardJr seems like you need to rewatch it too since Marley through the Willy Tyber had convinced the world to ally itself with them in their plan to destroy the Eldians of Paradis since Marley turned the world against Eldians. No matter what Eren did that night, the world wanted to destroy the Eldians.
What? The founder was never going to go to historia or her kid, as if either of them got the power they would be poisoned with the same philosophies and beliefs of king fritz. The idea was to have them live and be royalty just chilling there, as a deterrent if they would need to use it. The kid could live it’s entire life, the founder keeps getting passed on, and the beast I suppose could be held by a neutral party in the meantime, unless needed in which case the one with the founder holds down the beast so historia or her kid could become the beast
With the 26 year thing there's a pretty easy solution. Just give the Beast Titan to a non royal blooded Eldian and then if Paradis needs to use the founding Titan give the beast to Historia or her child.
Frieda lost to Grisha becuz she was still bound by the Karl Fritz's will and didn't have full access to Founding Titan powers.
Rod mentions inexperience becuz without founding titan powers, both r regular titans with no special abilities like armor, warhammer or nuke. Just combat experience.
Theres.... alot of things wrong with the video.
a) A random person with founding CAN'T command the founder. And Zeke knew this. If a random with the founder gets royal contact, they only get command over pure titans for a brief period (IE; Eren touching Dina). Eren gets to Ymir in the paths because Zeke brings him there, but its Zeke (IE; The Royal) that bring him there and has the control. Eren even says that. Even then, Eren has no power there. Zeke (aka, the Royal) is the one able to command Ymir.
Eren does not command, control or order Ymir. He wakes her up. At no point does he tell her to do anything it. He tells her she DOESN'T have to do anything. She doesn't have to be a slave. Thats she not a slave, a god. Shes just a person. And she wakes up. My understanding of that situation is that what follows is not Eren controlling or commanding her. They are both in a state of wanting to destroy the whole world and work together.
So unless David also has a unrivalled, unparrelled strength of will and burning desire to see the whole world burn beneath thier feet. Then no, they aren't going to get any sort of founding power ability.
It also doesn't work with the remaining royal commanding because, they will be utterly bound preventing them from using the founder due to the direct decendancy from the First King of the Walls (Zeke's binding was far weaker as he was NOT directly descended from him).
So you whole reset point is completely mute.
b) His plan wasn't to use mind control to make Subjects not reproduce. His plan was to use it to biologically change them so that could not reproduce. So they couldn't just, reproduce when the mind control doesn't work because it isn't about mind control, they have been biologicially and genetically changed to be unable to reproduce.
c) Yeah Ackerman thing is fair, however I think there general assumption is that they can't become or inherent Titans anyway. They would still be a family of god tier super soldiers, however since the ackermans consider purely of Levi and Mikasa at this point, unless one of them decides to leave the island and reproduce with someone who isn't eldian then that line dies out with thier death too.
Now, there are absolutely issues with the how the plan really keeps everyone safe until they die of old age... but I don't think Zeke actually cared that much about that part. Zeke's true goals was the make all eldians unable to reproduce, ensuring that the would eventually die out and the whole titan problem would be gone. At no point when he speaks with Ksaver does he mention ensuring the Eldian people long peaceful lives until death. Only to ensure no eldians will ever be born again. So yes, I believe that part of the plan doesn't work. There are ways around some of the obvious issues (Don't have historia immediately inherit a titan, essentially keep a titan shifter on standby to be eaten by historia/child as an when needed to activate the rumbling in case of an attack.).
it's not only kids that can take titans my guy, the last couple founders would be geezers but you could still make it happen.
I'm confused about the part where the founding titan will be pass down in royal blood, they have the vow renouncing war right? how can they defend themselves with the partial rumbling
The actual issue is that not all eldians are influenced by the founding titan, only the subject of Ymir (who are the majority of eldians) are influenced by it, but not all eldians are subject of Ymir. The eldians in inside the walls who aren't affected by the founding titan's power didn't had their memory wiped out, so the governement made them noble and allowed them to live in the wall shina in exchange for their silence.
Basically, the elite of Eldia would still be able to reproduce.
i agree, but doesn't historia or her child have to be a titan/-shifter to help eren redo the euthanasia? if so, they would have had to make historia/or child eat zeke before they could do this...
I see what you're saying, but given what happened when Eren touched Historia's hand, I have my doubts about the necessity of the royal also needing to be a titan. That being said, every time Eren actually USED the founder, it was when touching a titan or a shifter in human form.
The major problem I have with Zeke’s plan is that it wouldn’t get rid of death and destruction. Ignoring the fact that the people of Marley wouldn’t care about waiting for the Eldians die out on their own, once they are all dead, humanity will just look to another group of people to be their scapegoat like how Marley did with the Eldians. There is also the fact that forced sterilization is a form of genocide that has been used in the real world which is what Zeke is doing. People don’t realize that all the sides in the series are calling for genocide when they declare Eren is doing genocide, even the alliance are teaming up with people who not that long ago wanted to commit mass genocide against them. While what Eren did was horrible, I don’t have to fear giant monsters stomping across the globe like I would forced sterilization or a giant propaganda machine turning the world against one group of people which is what Zeke and Marley did and those instances are actual ways someone in the real world can commit genocide.
Yeah Anti-natalism only works when it's applied to all people.
Grogu?
Humanity would do that anyways even if Eren stomps it all down. I'd rather have one group die out and let the rest of humanity survive. What Eren did was to give his friends peace. Otherwise what's the point if he knows it's all gonna happen again anyways.
@@Izzy_ez_ I guess you are going to ignore me saying that if we go with Zeke’s plan they are just going to find another scapegoat to do the same thing to and humanity will continue doing this until they are all dead, so no humanity is not going to live on because it looks like no matter what route they take they are just going to keep killing each other until they are all dead. I also bet that the group of people who would die out in your scenario wouldn’t feel grateful that they are being killed off for the rest of the world. That is why I say that no matter what side you choose in Attack on Titan, you are supporting some form of genocide. I bet Eren felt that the sacrifice was worth it for the Eldians especially his friends to live on and he didn’t want them to all die for a group of people who hated them.
It's still not the same, Zeke wanted to save humanity, he wanted to end his own bloodline for the greater good, wich proves he wasn't doing it out of selfishness, he was going to suffer, this isn't something you can hate. Eren's genocide in the other hand is actually what makes genocide so despicable : a crazy amount of bloodshed of innocent people just for domination or anger. Besides, Zeke's plan wasn't about massacring people, just not giving them the ability to reproduce. So yeah even if it can be called a genocide, it has nothing to do with the genocide people have in mind, the genocide that we actually hate.
Zeke's plan could work in the following way , let me know if I'm wrong tho,
The ackerman was a good point, but it is very very safe to assume that the founder is way stronger than ackerman blood, after all, when Eren made his announcement about war to the whole world ,even Levi was brought into the Path's world, So let's say the Ackerman gets Euthanized too
So, Zeke will die in 1 year or less as he had beast for 12 years now, 13 is limit, Currently in the entire world there are only 3 Eldian with Royal Blood, Zeke,Historia,And the Child of historia born on day of Rumbling.
We all know Founder's powers need Royal Blood to Unlock, So when you said the entire eldian race has to agree for this plan to work ,that isn't actually true
Zeke dies in 1 year ,so he's out, remaining royal eldian in the world is 2 now.
Zeke just needs to convince historia that , you keep the founder for 13, then let your baby keep the founder for 13 , thats 26, and after 26 both historia and the baby would die,cause curse of ymir, so there is no more royal blood, then the founder will randomly go to a Non Royal Eldian, cause there is literally no Royal blood eldian left.
And without the royal blood, a common eldian guy(grisha) no matter holds the founder for how long ,cant really do shit, let alone Revert the euthinaztion.
So key point is ,convince historia and her child,
Everyone needs to keep Historia and her child Safe for the first 26 years , so that Marley doesnt attack Paradis ,takes the founder , kidnaps a royal blood , feeds the founder to a common eldian back on marley and make the common eldian now with founder touch royal blood(either historia or her kid)
Best way to prevent is ,zeke still has 1 year left right ,he should use wall maria's titans for Rumbling Show off and that ought to keep Marley away from Paradis for 50 years or so, and we just need to hold of for 26 years ,once they historia and her kid dies , with no royal blood eldian left in the world and no way to access the founder ,i say give the founder to marley and do whatever the fuck they wanna do ,cause eventually after 70 or 80 years all eldians gonna die and after that every single generation will be war with humans only ,no titans, ig so, idk bout the halluciginea ,that shit just doesnt die. Ig when the last eldian dies after 70 or 80 years ,who as the last living common eldian would ofc inherit the founder, after that dies, there would grow another tree ,just like in case of eren's grave? Could be, but yeah this is how Zeke's plan could perfectly work, and personal opinion, with a bit of persuasion,for the greater good zeke can convince historia.
Now the real talk
What plan can we make that keeps the island safe while dettering the other nations from attacking with no human casualties?
This is fucking impossible
Why not just make titan powers hereditary? Then as long as the bloodlines were in tact they would have the rumbling to defend themselves.
Can you cite where you get this idea that the founder can control shifters? I consider myself pretty well read on the manga, and this is the first time I've ever heard of it.
When Reiner says to Gabi that Eren can now stop the shifters from using their powers and that there's nothing they can do but run, after Eren activates the Rumbling and undos all hardening in the world. Additionally when Eren speaks to the alliance in the plane and tells them that he won't take away their shifter powers because he wants at least them to have the freedom to try and stop him if they can.
Aot influence be like: I deserve to die, if I was never born I would never suffer
Other side of the influence: *I will invade a neighboring country*
Zeke, the smartest character in Aot with 160 iq & 11/10 smartness, didn’t think his plan that well
Zeke's plan is beyond suicidal. He's basically proposing committing genocide on your own people, so you don't go to war and kill the enemy that wants you death. All for the sake of the enemy, not yours. It's similar to that idea Armin mocked: "What, you can't have a war if there's no people? It's like a bad joke! Who would take it seriously?"
Because Zeke could look at his own people objectively. It's not something superficial like having a different religion or skin colour. His people literally turn into GIANT MONSTERS with just a tiny dose of spinal fluid. Like it or not, you have to admit that's a huge security risk for the rest of humanity. He's kind of like those main characters in werewolf stories, who hate themselves and want to find a way to kill themselves in order to protect everyone around them.
@@TheGuzeinbuick Then shouldn't he simply use the founder's power to erase titan powers? Then Eldians wouldn't be a huge security risk
@@TheGuzeinbuick he is not looking at his people objectively, he wants all of his people to die because he has unresolved issues with his father.
Zeke has a sense of guilt for what his people have done in the past with the titan powers. Also he realised even if he erased titan powers the world would still be prejudiced against his people
NO TATAKAE TATAKAE TATAKAE
Heres the thing, you just need like 6 other anti natalist non royals and one royal all hidden away for about 80 years.
They all, one after the other become the founder while the royal blood stays there with them to allow for the partial rumbling.
The only way the plan fails is through betrayal.
Alternatively, eren could just kill himself after an year of the euthanasia going into effect, since no new eldians would be born, noone would inherite the founder.
Marley would oppress the remaining eldians, which wouldnt be very nice but a couple thousand eldian suffering compared go literally everyone outside paradis being rumbled sounds better
Great vid
whats the backround song?
Here y go ua-cam.com/video/OaGXgJRUTa8/v-deo.html
i think david would do it.
Tbh it would be a horrible period for Eldiab women if people realised they can’t get pregnant till they disappear 😢
Subjects of Ymir are able to turn into titans, not Eldians specifically just to let you.
I'm sure there's at least a small fraction of Eldians on Paradis who aren't Subjects of Ymir.
Can you cite that?
It's said that most of the nobles, such as the puppet king Fritz, are actually from a tribe of Eldians who never recieved any ancestry from Ymir.@@AngelArm1110
The attack titan does not follow orders. There wass a whole episode where they ralked about this.
My theory is yhe attack titan is who was controlling eren
Not the other way around
I was thinking that to that the attack titan was taking over erens mind
@@ultimatecharisma2822same
But when I say to dog owners who neuters their dog that this is taking away a part of them away and calling it "the best for them" when in reality it's only the best for their wallet they call me crazy.
Zeke was too nice he should have killed all eldians or take away the ability to transform into a titan
With erens plan there is still the problem of the titans. Every 13 years an eldian has to be eaten by another and there could be civil wars as the attack titan searches freedom
Perhaps the biggest part of Eren's plan which was not disclosed till the end was the destruction of the Power of the Titans. It seemed to be one of the primary things he was going for, while keeping his friends safe.
He knew he would be the last to weild the Founder.
5:30 eren sounds so corny in english damn
Eren killed billions just to achieve the same effect as Zeke's plan
Which is the annihilation of paradian
Nah Paradis survived. Everyone else died.
I don't think any of the genocide plans where justifiable actually, I think they where all terrible.
ackermanns aren't eldians, they don't become titans. even half ackermanns don't. race would still be wiped. you ain't as smart as zeke my guy. you could also hide when the founding titan is inexperienced by changing the inheritance time to something other than a routine 13 years.
Zekes plan was full proof you are just a genocide loving Isayama fanboy 😂
Cry about it kid. 😂
2:30 did you even think about this? Touching someone doesn't put their blood in you.... he wouldn't be able to control the founding titan.
Mate its litterally how eren is using the founder right now.
When eren activated his founding for the first time, Dina didn't have any blood on her hands, so how'd he control those titans?
@@videodimension69 you forget that only touching a royal blood person is not enough to control the founders power, if it was so easy Eren would have done it only touching Historia when he visited her in the farm.
Eren would need to touch a royal blood pure titan or royal blood titan shifter like Dina or Zeke.