This Hole was IMPOSSIBLE to Drill Until I Figured Out this Process
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- Опубліковано 27 кві 2024
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#Machining #Machinist #Engineering #3DPrinting - Наука та технологія
People asking for results... about a month after titans first video on this first came out, a job came through my shop that I almost passed up. .379" hole drilled 16.25" deep in 316L stainless. I ordered up this exact combination, ran it just like the video, 120 pcs with absolutely no problem. End to end the holes had a tolerance of .0015" deviation, mine where all within .0008" of Centerpoint location. My diameter tolerance was .0015/-0.000 and mine where consistently +.0005 to +.0012. It works, and works well. That job opened up a whole new series of opportunities for us and now my guys are deep drilling and gun drilling crazy L/D ratios on the regular.
So let's see the results. Show us the bottom end of the stock and the three holes. Measure the hole locations and report their runout relative to their planned/programmed positions.
Maybe holes that need to be that long have some wiggle room in the tolerances.
I’ve got a feeling that a carbide drill of that diameter isn’t walking very much, especially since the hole was already pilot drilled and it’s running thru spindle HP coolant.
@@tropixMw2 often they have not. for example in molds you have to drill several of those close together for the cooling. or in Automotive applications, they drill such deep holes into the main shaft of the engine, for oil distribution to the different bearings.
In the original video they do exactly that.
Very informative. How about a case of 3/8s and smaller for a depth of 6 inch. With a rpm limit of 1800 (AKA Haas TL-2 and no through coolant). This is my challenge in 17-4.
Nothing like some morning coffee and a new Titan video
I’m an old fart machinist, served a 5 year apprenticeship at an aerospace company in Europe way back further than I care to mention. I honestly think cutting tool technology as progressed faster than the machine tool technology. Amazing stuff. Thank you.
The content on this channel is pure gold, I've never machined a single thing nor have been near a cnc machine and I can appreciate the content here.
Easy peasy lemon squeezy . You know your about to learn something when that intro music hits!
I appreciate all of the technical information Titan drops in his videos. I’m always adding something new to my notes. 😊
I'm a machinist apprentice in the Basque Country and I can't even begin to express how grateful I am for these videos. It's awesome, really. Thanks for taking the time!
Love that y’all post videos right a 9am for my 10 min break lol
This video was a great help when I first started machining couple years back! Deep hole drilling was a pain, but this vid sure helped!
These videos are the ones that got me hooked on this channel. All your videos are awesome!
Deep drilling is an art in and of itself. This video was great info then and is great info now. Love it!
Always informative. Awesome throwback Titan! I remember watching as you recorded this and it was absolutely amazing. We were all glued to the machine 💪
what the hell, i was LITERALLY just a few minutes ago watching the same video but from 4 years ago.
I actually had to pull up the old video a couple of weeks ago when I had to drill a 5mm 30xD hole in stainless. Worked great 👍
Insane drill. Lot of great information Titan!
So good - love this throwback with such great info.
Insane drill.😎 Lots of great information Titan!
Love to see the detailed explanation for the OG himself!
Wow, I like this stuff I’m not alone in the world. I programmed my deep holes. Also basically the same way little bit different pretty much the same. I love that these guys teach been doing this for 47 years. That’s what I do. I teach all the time now young guys gotta take over, so I thank you Titans of CNC. Thank you for always teaching and always being the student.
Man could you please show us the real measurement of the entering and exiting ends of the holes? I mean I would like to see how does it maintain position, especially when drilling horizontally. The material structure is also important because usually there is some internal stress to relax or material anisotropy. How does this affect position of both ends when deep drilling. Appreciate your job Gilroy! Go ahead!
Great teacher, great video! Thanks a lot!!!
I like how you've added going through the code.
Nothing blew my mind like the first time I used a 30x diameter drill. Great video!
Well, except for full slotting in stainless with the Harvi 1TE. That blew my mind more.
@@barrysetzernot even 300mrr?
You giving out the code is amazing. You're inspirational, man.
G83
wow bro this one is new for me I have had drill holes up to 3 inch deep one shot, but this one is insane!!! thank you for this well done lecture.
Awesome!! Titan you rock!!!
Awesome story Titan!
I never knew that a twist drill could be drilled by using gun drill tactics. Interesting. Thanks
Awesome Video and great tips!
Good class Tytan thank you very much.
Unbelievable, this drill bit cost £500 in the UK 🇬🇧 .The most expensive drill bit I've ever come across.
I've been learning so much since I subscribed to this channel.
Thank you
Great information! Bank those speeds and feeds, people! 🤯
Excellent video. Love your practical hands-on approach to your work. Q. How do you stop a 'birds nest' when drilling normal steel? Cheers!
If you are birdnesting with stringy material like 1018, 4140, other alloys you may have to increase feed, generally with a 2 flute carbide coolant drill you want to be feeding at 2-4 percent of the diameter. Also, look for tooling with r-gashing that forces the chip to break instead of the x-thinning style tip.
Awesome video!
One more thing to consider:
when the long drill is getting twisted by cutting forces the chip evacuation channels "unwrap" a bit and the diameter becomes larger, It is why the drill is on the lower side of the tolerance
The longer the drill, the smaller it is to be able to pilot drill with shorter drills. Not by much, microns.
Quick tip to anyone new at deep hole drilling like this - turn your spindle on backwards entering the hole so the cutting edge will never catch the wall of the predrilled hole and snap the drill off (ask me how I know) then turn it back to the correct cutting direction when you begin the drilling cycle at full speed
Correct! also do this when exiting the hole.
Sweeettttt! Love the value!!
Dude is buff, and knows his stuff! o7
looking at your work holding i have 2 good fundamental questions. #1 how do you decide when to use a dovetail jaws between 2 vices or 2 serrated jaw vices? #2 how do you line them up to assure the work piece doesn't fly out?
Could you have a guide jig for the drill maybe made from a bronze with reverse spiral relief for the coolant?
i remember the original vid!!! it helped me a few times
I have used this method in they hydraulic industry and had great success in mild steel. HP coolant thru is incredible.
You want to reverse the spindle when entering the drill into the pre drilled hole. And also stop the spindle and turn of coolant before exiting the hole completely. This is a common gundrill strategy and also works great with long carbide drills.
In my work site we work a lot with Deep drilling, i m talking of holes of even 2 meters, and we do like that in most of cases, but like always depending on the situation, but usually thats the usual tactic.
Its a great way to prevent the drill from catching a corner and breaking. But if theres a chip in the hole, it might not evacuate. Thats why I always run CW at 50 RPM like Titan mentioned.
@@hanibal764 Two meters? What was the smallest diameter ever drilled that deep?
We drill stainless using 3 different length 3.5mm Walter drills almost 5 inches deep. First a pilot, then an intermediate and finally a 6" long drill. The trick is to engage the intermediate and long drill slowly in M4 rotation at low rpm to about 3/16" depth, stop the spindle, turn on the through tool coolant, M3 12,000 rpm and in it goes like butter.
We are already use this drill in steel En19 materials
Hypermill has a particular cycle for this.
We are useing D8 Kenna drill with deep of 286mm with pilot drill of 25mm .
Life of the drill is achieving with 5m with coated corners , with regrading we were achieved more then 50m life.
Onevthe best drill geometry I ever seen.
I realize that in this specific scenario it doesn't matter because the pilot drill will have coolant to clean any chips but, by not turning flood coolant back on, is it in case you have multiple pilot holes drilled and preventing chips from falling in there or some other reason?
Been deep hole drilling for over a decade now, from 10-70xD in almost every material you can imagine, form stainless to inconel, even 55 HRC dies steels. This video give good insight to the programming which is crucial but not as hard as so many make it out to be. With the right programs you can flawlessly deep drill in any material with consistent repeatability.
My only issue is that the IPR is too small, .003" IPR is less than 1 percent of diameter of the drill, in this material the minimal I would go is 2 and all the way up to 4 percent of the diameter. With this feed being low, you can see how small and thin the chips are, you will wear this drill out prematurely and it is more likely to wander.
Good stuff
Our company here in New Zealand makes hydraulic manifolds for the most part, usually out of Ductile Iron, Mild steel and Aluminium. And occasionally stainless steel. Ane we use these drills for all our deep drillings and they are a great drill. My machine is a Horizontal (Matsuura HP630) and deepest drilling I've done is around 350mm with a 12mm Kennmetal. What you do is pretty much what we do although we reverse direction in Z 5mm once we get to depth, theres a half second dwell spindle goes to 50RPM and it retracts at 100% rapid. We also leave the flood coolant on and our CTS is on just before the drill enters the pilot hole. We also use 4mm drills but only go to 150mmmm max deep and as there have been issues with chips not clearing we stopped doing this cycle and changed it so it plunges to 50mm then changes to a chip break cycle (G83). Great video.
What type of collet and holder are you using for this?
Thats crazy! Id love to give that a go. Ive just got my company to start ordering kennametal tooling
Love this video style vs the more marketing type that happens here. The irony is that in more likely to buy it
Used to regularly drill 5mm oilway holes through 240mm of En40B on a bridgeport.
Great video, can you please show us gun-drilling also.
Will this drill work in Hastalloy ? We’ve been experimenting with different types of drills. All very costly so they need to produce a lot of holes.
I havent tried this kennametal drill but I have done dee drilling like this in tool steel with Guhring, Sandvik, Sumitomo, and OSG. So far. OSG has been the best. Next time we get a part that needs a deep hole, maybe I'll try this, just to see how it performs.
Try Mikron Crazy Drills... Osg, Mitsubishi and guhring are always replaced when it comes to high performances and quality
Were these holes drilled using 1000psi tsc?
We do this on the machine shop I work here in Brazil, I remember the face of my manager the first time we pulled It off 😂
thats pretty cool, but how do they make the tiny holes all the way through the tooling for the coolant ?
If you take this guys word, Kennametal makes the best over every kind of tool imaginable across the board. They’re fine, but I’d call them mid-grade. In my experience, at least with smaller diameters, Mitsubishi makes the best deep hole drills. Harvey tool makes nice ones too but not a big range of sizes. I’ve personally run an .093” Mitsubishi drill 3.2” deep in 304SS through several thousand parts in a Swiss lathe holding under .0005” T.I.R drill to outer diameter and .0002” T.I.R to a shallow bore at the front of the drilled hole.
Would'nt a gundrill have been a better choice for such a deep and small hole?
we once drilled a 175 times diameter hole into steel :-) and it worked great. they made a spezial tool, its a pipe that was squished into a 3/4 cake shaped crosssection, to get the cooling fluid to the tip, that was made from tungsten cabide and soldered onto the pipe. its was really fun to do, first we predrilled a 60mm deep hole with a normal 8mm cabide drill, then we slowly inserted the spezial 8mm drill and drilled up to the 1400mm deep we had to go. and i am not sure but we were off by 0,1 or 0,2 mm wich is pretty imperssive. the hole was just for grease, so it was not that important to be perfect.
Some in depth S33 Studer videos would be awesome
I'm using this technology since 5 years, the holes parameters are dia: 3mm lenght: 95mm
1 drill drills more than 100 holes.
Walter titex drill
Genius
Be really careful with those long drills! We almost killed somebody with these long drilling tools.
In the company i work we have similar drills from diameter 5 to 80mm.
We had a crash because we speed up the tool before it was engaged, then the drill bend to an L shape and the head of the drill shoot through the sheet metal of the machine. It was 30-50cm next to the head of the worker.
Because of the very high pressure plus volume of coolant. Does it help hydraulically to center the drill stem?
That drill bit has through coolant!! Just imagine. How did they drill the hole for the through coolant in the drill bit.
Surely you know it's not drilled right?It's all powder metallurgy.
I did realise it wasn't drilled, but I've got no idea how it's made.
The pilot hole is key. It supports the long drill to stop it blazing it's own trail, but not much info on why 1.2" was said. Could you get away with 1"? is it 1.2" for any size drill? The answer is that it needs to be deep enough to support the long drill on 4 points along it's twist - the cutting flutes and 90º to the cutting flutes or then 1/4 helix pitch of the long drill in depth. That stops it dancing around off center.
As the pilot drill is still just a drill, it can wander too even if very short and if you're aiming for the best straightness, you don't use a tool that slaves to the hole like a reamer or drill, you'd bore the pilot so it's 100% concentric with the spindle.
Probably was a 3xd drill that he buried. Depending on the manufacturer, a 3xd drill can have 5xd of flute length. Here he went just shy of 4xd.
YOU ARE BEST
Even I get it, Great video. Ray Stormont
❤❤❤ you the myth the man the legend #TitanGilroy
I have a few questions,
how many holes or mm can you expect before failure/ resharpen?
how many times can you resharpen the tool ? (i have in mind that you can resharpen it a lot but the inner structure is going to fail).
much love from Germany and thank you for your education in this industry.
One drill - one hole
One size, one goal
No going back....
Or what should be (its a kind of magic)
I´m use them and some other in 1.4404 (2 - 2,5 - 4 - 5 - 5,5 - 6mm up to 30xD) with feed and speed from Novo. Tool life is about 8m - 11m including some interrupted holes. Position is around 0,03mm at 100mm deep.
thanks mate just asking last week i had to drill some alloy 50 or xm-19 some nasty shit, and broke one drill
i used osg drill, tool breaks after 8m
I am a sophomore in high school and like engineering and I have a free version of solid works what do you recommend for learning how to get better at cam software
Where did the holes come out?
He didn't talk about everything this video but it is really hard to cover everything at once in a relatively short video. I have a couple of additions.
Pilot hole needs to be 3 times drill diameter or greater. Titan talked about hole diameter and other things, but it is also worth noting double checking the diameter with a gauge pin is a good idea. This will catch both diameter and roundness problems, both of which will break drills. A small chamfer at the top of the hole also isn't a bad idea to guide the deep hole drill.
This demonstration was with a vertical machine. The struggle with vertical machines is chips wanting to fall back into the hole. Horizontal machines struggle with drill drooping, and you might have to program in a slight offset to account for this. Also, drilling one pilot followed by one deep hole is the preferred method if time allows. This prevents chips from being in the pilot hole.
The piloting process shown here was very conservative, you can definately go faster but work up to it. You still need to keep your rpms low, but you can feed a bit faster. Pilot RPM should always be below 500 rpms.
The pauses in this program are way too long, and you don't need one when you turn the coolant on. 50-100 ms is enough after you tell the drill to go to full rpm, assuming a fairly modern machine.
For though holes, it is a good idea to slow down the federate before exit. There 50-75% is generally the range for exits.
The exit feedrate and rpm was very conservative again. These are good to start with, but in high volume production these numbers are too slow.
Could u elaborate on the pilot hole needing to be 3 times drill diameter? Are u saying if im drilling a .25" hole i need a .75" pilot? Because that would kill 100% of the parts i run lol
@@verakoo6187 the pilot needs to be 3x the drill diameter in depth. Diameter should be about 0.001" larger than the deep hole drill, but most suppliers will have a pilot tool made for their deep hole drill. Use that and diameter should not be a problem.
Was there some calculation or reason your spot depth was 1.2? Could a half round drill do this if you were able to get coolant at the bottom?
He was more than likely using a 3xd drill so he buried it to get as deep a pilot as he could. He could have gone in after with an 8xd or whatever intermediate drill as well. Depends on how straight you need it.
it is good to spin the drill counterclockwise. down the hole. so it doesn't capsize and the corners come off then I usually drill with 20 times the diameter before I go on with 40/50 times the diameter
40/50 times the dia. man that is nerve wrecking for me.I've never drilled anything that deep especially in small sizes.
Love you guys. Anyway I could get a Titan shirt? XL
how bout a hole pop and wire edm?
GREAT
4:43 😂
me who is used to 3d-printing and feedrates at 20+k looking att .55 thinking that will take some years to finnich and then realizing that its a different unit and spec on those machines, still reely cool to watch and learn (sorry for language, not naitive english)
I operate excavators. But love watching this all the time. I would love to be in a machine shop
Deep hole drilling cycle, canned cycle with thru coolant drills. It's not terribly hard, but stainless steel is a nightmare to work with if you don't have coolant flooding.
How would you go about making an ellipse at these lengths? Would you just use an EDM at that point?
Unless u have the longest endmill in existence, yeah that'd prob be ur only bet. Not many EDM machines that go over 12" tho, and getting settings dialed in to do straight cut at those lengths is a bitch an a half. If there not perfect u end up getting a convex/concave shape. Were the top and bottom of the cut are oversized and the middle is undersized, or vice versa.
Damn, after watching the video I wanna drill anything so baddddddd
Now with a 1" diameter drill down to 6"
if your drilling holes deeper then 3 inches in many cases the base part its self needs to be rotating against the rotation of the drilling bit cutter. a physics law that forces self centering, one object rotating into another in apposing directions.
Sometimes it's impossible because of the dimensions or shape of the part (angled holes in heavy parts as an example). But otherwise you are right.
That only works with round stock doing center holes. U cant put 3 side by side holes in rectangle while its spinning lol.
I take it these drills cut faster than a gun drill.
How do they compare for, straightness of hole, surface finish, diameter accuracy.
That'd be a big oops too fire that up 2k rpm un supported!
Deepest hole I've ever machined was 42.5xD in 718 inconel at a 60° angle. Hole was like 2.5" deep at like .0625" dia
Some how I have difficulty to understand that climax wen you speak how it's like a miracle to drill those holes.
I'm drilling 400mm deep 9mm holes to 42CrMo4 steel m35 cobalt drill bit that i get aliexpress abaut 20€/22$
Nice video! But i guarantee you tha with Mikron Crazy drills you can get much better performance in terms of time, roughness and hole runout
If you really want to hole deep holes you need a EDM-drilling machine such as BES or AGEMA. Those machines can drill up to 1000 x diameter!
How many hours does it take?
It depends on the material and the diameter but the speed is 5 to 30 mm/min
Now try with a CrazyDrill Cool SST-Inox from Mikron Tool and you’ll realise how slow this is 😅
agreed, this should be 2-3 times faster.
Coolest video!
what is the limit? could you do 100 times diameter?
70 x D is longest I have seen, it comes down to the manufacturing process of the drill itself that has kept companies from going much deeper as of yet.
Why not just run your feed rate at inch per rev? You consistently used .003 per rev. I would think it would make the program just that much easier to write.