Hey Kungen, Ragebar (Ensidia Warrior) here. I was casual during the last part of Wotlk, so I did not do Arthas with you so I don't know exactly what happened. However I do remember during our PTR testing of the Anub'Arrak raid zone, that Munken (Hunter with Engi saronite bombs) accidently used it on the floor while we were waiting for the boss to respawn. When he threw it on the floor (by accident) he broke the floor and we all fell into Anub's room. Meaning we bascilly skipped to the last boss without killing anything else. So back then we very quickly realized that saronite bombs do crazy shit on floors and floor mechanics. I was under the impression that this is something we never shared with Blizz devs (even though they sometimes joined our TeamSpeak). Therefore, I thought maybe just maybe this "trick" was used on Lich King fight. Not that I cared too much about WoW at that point, so I don't think I even asked the guys what happend. I do remember logging in the day after the ban and seeing only 3 others online in the guild.
I guess the fix was buggy cause many players fell through the instance past Anub and ended up In West fall or wherever the default location for lost characters for horde was.
You were in the Algalon FK right? I've watched so many times over the years that video on macktzer's channel. Blue Sea Tides was the song in the background and if I remember correctly one of the povs was from your warrior
I remember back then when people started crashing Tarren Mill server to prevent Ensidia progressing on Lich King HC. They then transferred to Lightnings Blade which had Paragon at the time.
He is obviously lying about how small of an achievement world first normal LK was, guilds were racing and ensidia were bragging like mad after normal LK
HI Kungen, can you please upload your old raids talk (maybe also cut breaks etc.)? It were very interesting stories, but unfortunately I was not able to watch whole stream. Videos like "vanilla raids", "TBC raids", etc. I know VOD is on Twitch now, but I think it would be deleted after some time, so it would be shame to loose this interesting WoW legacy stories :-)
+KungenTV Damn that sucks. Yeah I was a big, huge follower of the top tier raiding guilds. I loved the world's first end game race. I thought what happened to you guys made absolutely no sense at all. My philosophy is, If its allowed in the game, then you can use it anyway you choose. If they did not want people to use saronite bombs, take it out the game or limit it to non raid environments.
+bigbullbk "My philosophy is, If its allowed in the game, then you can use it anyway you choose." LOL what you think is irrelevant son, you don't own or run WoW. " If they did not want people to use saronite bombs, take it out the game or limit it to non raid environments." Saronite bombs affected the LK area, that is not an intended effect.
Max Beefsteak Guess no one should have an opinion in that case. I guess Ensidia should've stopped raiding and contacted blizzard and let them know they found a weakness in their programming.
Weeeeeelll actually the edges made it so you couldnt be dropped of the edge when those wraiths carried you off.... there was a video showing the exploit.... everything else might be true but it wasnt just "the edges were bigger".... no it was, you couldnt be carried off the edge and killed, meaning you didnt even have to kill the wraiths that tried to carry you off... so yea, big difference
Yeah I noticed that too. He didn't explain it that well taking into account it was the biggest drama in WoW and the name of his guild was in it. I'm not a pro player and I remember every phase of Arthas until this day, his sets of abilities and the mechanics of the exploit itself. As you said, it didn't grow bigger in size. It's just that the edges didn't collapse so the valkyries could safely drop anyone on those same edges. Lol
Doing normal was essential to do Heroic on next week. In case you didn't know: You weren't able to go ICC heroic if you don't have killed Lich King on normal first. Appareantly they found the exploit accidentaly but kept doing it since it wasn't just using Saronite Bombs in your normal rotation, they had to stand somewhere specific to trigger the exploit.
+Razer kungen had a hole stream where he talked about old days with screenshots and stuff. from the start of vanilla til when he stopped raiding :D www.twitch.tv/kungentv/v/24560165 www.twitch.tv/kungentv/v/24475818 www.twitch.tv/kungentv/v/24703971
Blizzard is still releasing buggy instances and raids, everything in mythic+ from the last boss in Neltharions Lair resetting if he goes into lava to players getting stuck in the cage after the first boss in Maw of Souls. And these issues still have not been fixed a year after release of Legion. If Blizzard doesn't want the Lich King to be killed because of a bug, then they need to playtest the raid beforehand. And was it out of the question that a rogue or even a healer would use a saronite bomb? Of course not. This was a clear mistake on the part of Blizzard and 90% of the players knew that.
Fun fact. i Remember Kungen and Nihilum as a godlike crew with 1st kills in wow in all mostly.. So later on actually that i for the first time ever cheated in Diablo 3 of frustration cuz he with he was first ever barb got to lvl 100 (cant remember exactly what the achivement was) But i said that was imposible so i bought a bot. and ofc got perm banned. Had to write an apology letter to blizz and told why i was cheating and they lifted my ban (And have never cheated since.)
tl;dr It's K̶a̶l̶g̶a̶n̶ Furor's fault, of "Tigule and Foror's Strawberry Ice Cream" fame. 4:52 One person wanted to ban, four didn't. Blizzard. supported the unforgiving employee by presenting it as a group decision, not an individual one. The affected guild didn't reveal this information because they were unable to describe the desire to ban in altruistic terms. They didn't view what they were doing as important, and so didn't think it mattered if how they accomplished things appeared ethical (the same way laws can be written so that someone acting "under colour of law" can avoid additional offenses that would have been avoided if their actions were actually legal, instead of just appearing so). 'Top' guilds contributed to the culture that led to discrimination against poorly-geared, unskilled, and inexperienced players. Ensidia/Nihilum ranted about bugs or difficult mechanics in early TBC, like the main tank being mind-controlled. Complaints about bugs were nothing new - Death and Taxes did it with C'Thun. But Nihilum publicly insulted Blizzard using offensive language. Blizzard responded by giving what had been requested - harder content. But this didn't lead to 'top' guilds like Nihilum helping the game. Elitist attitudes like "no one cares about easy modes" and "items define a character or player's worth" made Blizzard think that adding the group finder, and later raid finder, to the game was a good idea. These arguably made the game worse, but the social environment that 'top' guilds contributed to made it difficult for Blizzard to see better options. It was fair to say that 'top' guilds like Ensidia were hurting the game, and that banning one was justified even if it caused those players to quit the game. It's hard to make a video of a raid encounter interesting when you show the user interface and all the UI elements the player is paying attention to. Raider UIs are often pretty ugly. I was not impressed with what I saw from Ensidia/Nihilum.
I don't know man .. I don't bother with master raiders.. the only thing I know is the gold I made from selling saronite bombs and mats to level engineering. Every dps back then was switching to engineering all of a sudden, might have been coincidence (which I don't think so, cause for the platfo to rebuild you needed to be on the edge) but I know I made a lot of gold
Oh please. theres no way this wasn't done intentionally. there was no reason for the bombs to be thrown where they were being thrown, they intentionally abused the bug. For a high ranking guild that tests things before everyone else, they would know better than anyone if they find a bug, they do NOT abuse it. it was clear that the platform rebuilding was a bug, but they dont care, they cant HANDLE the fact that they fucked up. They cheated on normal because they thought they wouldn't be caught. it was a supposedly known fact at the time that blizzard only monitored heroic bosses. so the guild figured that blizzard weren't watching on normal. These people are not innocent. they cheated and they suffered as a result. Kungen is an amazing player, but the fact hes still defending this shit after all this time makes him a bit less credible.
+vikelous The encounter-designers should expect saronite bombs, as they know at that time, that top guilds used it in their dps rotation. +KungenTV And here comes the answer to the question, why Blizz reacted in such manner: because they were clumsy, and it is clearly their fault, for they never tested that boss with the saronite bombs. All on you, Bli(t)zz...
Why you lie bruh? Unless you were tanking LK on the edge durning valk phase, there is no way you'd use saronite bombs in your dps rotation and discovered the bug. And as both of us know, you had to tank him in the middle of the room durning that phase. Unless, you knew the valk mechanic was irrelevant, thanks to your saronite bomb exploit.
@kungenTV When will you start playing diabelo?? i have bin waitng for you to go back for over 2 years.. :( Please start agen, your clan and friends miss you
didn't you have to use the saronite bombs on the edges where no mobs were anyway ... and wasn't there a video circulating where you could see the same rogue always run out and bomb the edges for no apparent reason at all other than exploiting .... I mean I could be wrong here it's been a couple of years ... and of course they could clear normal but the tested out the exploit for heroic and the firstkill still had some prestige then ...
That could be plausible, but they still have a right to feel aggrieved. Especially when you consider the way Paragon killed Anub arak in the tier before. Perma-stunning the adds with paladins (the adds had a bug whereby the paladin stun had no diminishing effect) thereby completely bypassing an extremely hard part of the encounter.
2 be honest class stacking is still a thing to this day and abusing bugged adds or bossmechanics is not the same for me as doing something you normally wouldn't to exploit a major bug with the encounter ... but also to be fucking honest here before that ban guilds were always searching for the new major exploit and Kungen is just full of bullshit
Ooh cmon kungen, just step up and admit you knew what you guys were doing. You are even going as far as "up to this date we still dont know what exactly happened". Cmon man.
BananaBread I'm a bit skeptical too. He scoffs at how incredibly easy normal mode is, then he should've quickly understood the fact that the encounter was bugging. You can't claim both brilliance and ignorance simultaneously. Doesn't make sense. Ya know?
Keep an open-mind here: Saying "you didn't do it" is false, but he does make a solid point about the bombs and the facts behind things like using it on every single boss, and the platform being rebuilt is a Blizzard mechanic and their problem, the fact they banned you for 3 days after they say they WATCHED what was going on is ridiculous - it sounds like the somebody not liking you story has some validity, and that's messed up. If the players have a Terms of Service, why don't the staff have to follow rules as well? I'm sure this has happened before and wasn't the last time either. In my opinion, if something is broke in your game, that's your fault; the most disgusting thing about this story is that you're telling me their internal testers didn't test something that's used in every fight on, well, the final boss of an expansion (essentially), yeah right okay.
People with common sense knew it was a bs ban back then, but you are wrong saying that people wouldn't abuse normal mode, I ll just put here DS when lfr was released, so many top guilds abused the bug there so yeah.
+Repanocho At least this is sort of an "official" source so the idiots that claim exploitz will maybe get it trough their thick skulls. Unlikely though.
so you seriously think that they were unintentionally using an exploit as obvious as restoring a platform on a boss with saronite bombs? you have to be incredibly naive to think that was unintentional and to think that these top raiders didn't know that what they were doing was an exploit.
phav i Rogues had been using saronite bombs for dps for the entire expansion. If this had been the first encounter where they had been using saronite bombs then it would obviously have been intentional, but it wasn't.
Didn't Ensidia exploit game mechanics quite regularly though in previous tiers? Or was that just hearsay that jealous people began spreading to further stain your good name? I have been progression raiding since Molten Core and each tier, jealous people on our server would spread bullshit about us cheating. Also, FOR THE HORDE!
+Vesperwow The only 2 people I can think of it being are Kaplan or Afrasiabi. Kungen said he was cool with Kaplan. It has to be Afrasiabi. Both were big in EQ1. It could even be Pardo, but the Blizzard Throwaway account on the reddit thread (take it or leave it) confirmed it was Afrasiabi. I don't believe Pardo was an encounter designer. Kaplan and Afrasiabi both were.
How about the fact there was actually no reason to be 100% sure this even WAS a bug. Icecrown Citadel is built out of......Saronite. The idea that a platform built of Saronite could be rebuilt with shrapnel of Saronite bombs isn't a very out there idea for an Easter egg in the fight.
Thank you so much, Kungen. I didnt understand and got super upset too that they ban your guild. My story: I transfered same night from Maggi to TM as I have heard you are leaving Maggi. Thank you for all the raids I was allowed to be with your guild, alts and mains. Loved it so much, so much, so much, ... Your merge with Envy broke my heard. I was Tharetas, holy paladin and some other alts, Pionier, resto druid and so on. Thank you so much for the best time in wow you gave me. Playing TBC classic now on firemaw. See you there. xdxd
Never knew the full story, the way i was told and read it, it seemed you cheated to get the world first. Typical bliz 'we fucked up when making an encounter so we blame the players'.
Seems like you're lying just because you started out playing it off like the room getting bigger doesn't matter. Then you compare normal of wrath to normal of modern day wow to down play it despite them not being the same. Also why would you exploit normal? To practice for heroic of course.
I thought the same thing. Just to practice for heroic. It's obvious that is a possibility and the fact he didn't mention it... Pretty sus. Tbh, if that was the goal, they could have been extending the fight in normal trying to find every little advantage they could use and prepare for heroic.
It was probably an accumulation of offences. You "cheated" quite a few bosses in previous tiers/expansions, right? Freya trash in the Hodir encounter for example. My guess is they were looking for an excuse because the cycle of exploit then report AFTER the kill so no other guild could follow was something they wanted to break.
+ronanmcw He talked about that too. They had to do it after they buffed Hodir (after 2 guilds killed him already) and made him unkillable. Having Freya mobs on hodir hc made the fight ever harder for healers, in fact it was even harder to do it that way. They needed some extra dps.
ronanmcw The way they killed Hodir was pure brilliance though, even if it wasn't technically allowed. Plus it wasn't an exploit per say, it was just a clever use of in game mechanics. Who knew fighting Hodir + Freya's adds made the encounter possible (just).
He says that he cheated on normal for practice, but how are you practicing for heroics if your cheating in normals. If his statement was genuine then his guild would have done normal without saronite bombs for "practice" I refuse to believe that the best guild in the world, did not notice that using saonite bombs made the room grow larger, These guys are the best, they see things normal plebs miss. The truth is Nihilum makes $$$ competing at the level they do, and when your consistantly being challenged by other great guilds, it becomes easy to jusitify using a cheat then pleading ignorance. You deserved your ban and hopefully you learn from this poor judgement call. Hardwork > Cheating.
+Hellspawnddm fact is if they are using saronite bombs in rotation they shouldnt have got banned for blizz making a mistake, an exploit is intentionally doing it and there isnt really any proof saying that they intentionally exploited, but the fact they had proof they where using the saronite bombs in their rotations. Its dumb as fuck if you ask me. You cant ban people for failures in mechanics and as kungen said it was normal ffs why cheat on normal.
+Ashley Goggs That statement was really stupid.. Its like saying that using aim assistance in a FPS shouldn't get you banned because there are ways to code it and the developers should "suit themselves for making a mistake".. We're all human.. If they noticed the saronite bombs made the room bigger, they could've wiped, re-did the encounter without saronite bombs, seeing as Kungen.. several times throughout the video, talks about how EASY normal mode was. I don't believe that 25 people missed the platform growing larger. Take your ban as a man, you cheated, you got rekt. You should be happy it wasn't a harsher punishment than a rollback and a couple of days ban.
even so like i said it was a one time thing you cant ban someone for exploiting when they only did it once, exploiting is knowing it happened and repeatidly doing it. And something so obvious blizz should have noticed before hand and should have let it slide.
+Hellspawnddm How would they know if it is a bug if they don't know how big the room is if they don't use the bombs? I don't really think they deserved the ban due to doing it first time. I mean, blizz could've warned ensidia the moment blizz realised.
They existed, but for this particular case, Blizz decided to remove Arthas in Normal and all the bosses in Heroic from PTR. I could be wrong about Heroic but Arthas was not in the PTR, 100% sure of that
Anyone with half a brain back then knew it was bullshit, glad you finally uploaded a vid telling the whole story though, and glad you're uploading again!
He's lying his ass of in this video. I remember their world first post on their website. They had the usual group screenshot and the fancy photoshops blatantly boasting they won world first normal Lich King. He's also comparing normal mode to mythic which is bullshit in today's standard. Normal mode back then was basically what heroic mode is now. They were pushing for world first during that first week of normal mode raiding. When a new raid gets released these days, do you see any top guilds ranked top 5 on wowprogress, on heroic mode? No, because the top guilds are practicing on heroic for Mythic. He's claiming they were "practicing" and could "easily" kill Lich King on normal mode, this is a lie. Normal was a little challenging, not easy. And they were certainly not practicing. Keep an eye out for this guy folks. He is a manipulative individual. His former Nihilum guild is notorious for exploiting, just search for the Lady Vashj story, which they exploited for world first and got away with it. And people for Christs sake do not give this guy your money! All he does is stream the most currently popular game of the moment, rakes a few easy bucks in, rides on his past Nihilum fame and leeches off of his fanboys money. When he gets bored, he just buggers off, no word, nothing. When he needs money, bam! he's back! The funny thing is he lives with his gf who's job is "full time streamer". Basically they are both broke. It's hilarious once you start digging into this shit.
HenryRide That eyesore of a paragraph doesn't make much sense. They killed the boss with worse geared alts 3 days later, they did not need this saronite bug at all to claim the World first, it just does not make any sense. You then talk about Lady Vashj. You do realise just how buggy the encounter was right? And you also realise that GMs watched Nihilumd progress raids throughout TBC, if they exploited Vashj they would've been caught. It was not them exploiting the encounter, it was the encounter being buggy as fuck.
Gotta love the little fanboys glued to his little pecker. No real arguments, so they make fun of a paragraph of text. These are the kinds of shitheads elitist scum like Kung-whatever breeds. They're like actual children.
why would the best guild in the world cheat for normal? to practice it for heroic, like you just said. . . Normal was practice for Heroics for your guild. . .
So you are going to argue that you weren't cheating on normal to make sure it works for heroic? That if you made it to heroic mode you would not have used that exploit? BULLSHIT. I spoke with someone in your guild, not naming anyone. But he was always been in your guild. Extremely senior member and he told me that the person that threw the bombs knew what he was doing way beforehand and you guys all knew about it. The fact that you admit that it made the room bigger also shows you acknowledge it as an exploit that you guys used.
+08071991S someone asked about it in chat and he decided to make a follow up vid as part of his stream. Normal mode kills have always been jokes to top tier guilds. Had it been on Heroic for a world first then yea I could have understood the bannings. Why Blizzard didn't get directly in touch in a more normal way is beyond logic and had an obviously biased motive behind it.
Maybe you answer my question later on in the video, but it seems VERY obvious why people get mad that you do the saronite bomb "cheat" on normal? Because it means you wanted to see if it works, and you'd undoubtedly do it on HC too, given the chance, now that you know it works.
+cantfindaname123421 How could they "wanted" to see if an exploit works, if they never ever killed that boss before??? They didn't even know, what was going on when the platform "rebuilt" itself, they tought it is (part of) a game mechanic. Trolling much? GTFO
+phav i I beleive the final wing of WOTK went largely untested by top guilds as they wanted to leave some mystery to the final world first race for WOTK. A lot of people were pissed as shit about it and quite a few bugs (nothing as huge as the saronite *exploit*) were found during the first week. Either way if you think they were abusing the bomb bug for world first on normal, you're being completely absurd. They had sent in bug reports after the kill anyway so you can't even use the excuse that they were testing for HC the following week as the reports would have clearly indicated to Blizzard there was a problem. Blizzard handled a situation sloppily and ultimately made no difference. Boss went down to alts, heroic died the following week. WOTK was ezpz yada yada casuals crymore
James Joseph everything you said is irrelevant, they intentionally used a bug that they knew wasn't working as intended. doesn't matter that they killed it with alts, doesn't matter that it's only normal.
*Until Paragon claimed the throne in ToC, and never looked back since. The current top guild in world is always the one who claimed the latest endboss wf :) Just like method was the top guild in most of WoD, despite paragon having a more impressive history up until that expansion. In my mind paragon will forever be the best guild to compete in wow, just like I'm sure many people consider Ensidia or Nihilum to be the best guild ever. It's just important to see the difference between past and present, facts and personal thoughts.
All reasonably smart people at the time knew this was a BS ban. If it wasn't Kaplan, it was Pardo?? I always thought he seemed an ok dude and I further thought he worked on non wow projects after TBC.
You can't say that "normal" is easy for top guilds, when you have another video saying that classic wow is harder than the expansions, because as you well know there was ONLY ONE level of difficulty in classic wow. Please don't tell me they were hard, because I done them, and that doesn't mean that I should be in a top guild.
Yea it's very true about normal mode, i remember being blue geared and fullclearing icc first week, not even sure if we wiped. Not sure why would anyone get banned over normal mode, the loot in icc normal mode was pretty trash too considering how easy first wing heroic was
"i remember being blue geared and fullclearing icc first week". lmao..... Very few guilds (relative to how many were actively raiding at the time) actually cleared ICC week1. My guild got a US top25 kill on lich king heroic 25 (world 98th), and we did not clear it week1 on 25man. Maybe we should have, but we didn't. Quite a few guilds that were higher ranked than us also failed to kill him week1. I'm talking guilds that had tribute to insanity in ToGC25 months earlier (our guild was world 149th, i believe, on tribute to insanity 25man -- we were getting climbing the ranks fairly quickly from Ulduar into Cataclysm). In fact, we almost had tribute to immortality on 25m (only death the entire run was a mage who DC'd just before getting targeted by Anub in p2 --and if you raided back then you know how difficult that feat of strength - was too hard to make an achievement - was). Yet we didn't get a 25m normal LK kill week1. Luckily, some of us went on to do 10m later that night and literally killed him on 10m normal on our very last attempt. That was one of the most satisfying raid nights ever, since that meant we were able to do heroics as soon as possible. Between shit I read in youtube comments and (especially) the shit that people would say during my time playing classic, it's INSANE how many people are either straight bullshitting about their past experience or have lost their minds in the 10-15yrs that went by since then. Anyone who really wants to know can always check the data that's still out there -- i'm surprised how accurate it is still after all these years.
I always thought it is funny that, at release of wotlk it became Activision Blizzard and everything went down hill from there. Out of WoW's entire timeline it somehow lines up perfect with the company changes. Ingame items for money also became a thing at the same time.
you do know that 85% of wotlk was made by the offcial blizzard team right? they released wotlk in 2008 and activision tog over at the same year blizzard. Blizzard projects are pretty much made finished when they release thir games... the pre-season up to cata tho and cata is made by activision blizzard ^^ and yeah thats when thir player based falled dramaticly down... wotlk is the wow that had most active users at all time xD
Please upload more of these, I loved the weekend streams where you went through old raids and told stories about them =)
+vilestine the reason I now know about Kungen and have become a fan. Please make more of these videos
Hey Kungen, Ragebar (Ensidia Warrior) here. I was casual during the last part of Wotlk, so I did not do Arthas with you so I don't know exactly what happened. However I do remember during our PTR testing of the Anub'Arrak raid zone, that Munken (Hunter with Engi saronite bombs) accidently used it on the floor while we were waiting for the boss to respawn. When he threw it on the floor (by accident) he broke the floor and we all fell into Anub's room. Meaning we bascilly skipped to the last boss without killing anything else. So back then we very quickly realized that saronite bombs do crazy shit on floors and floor mechanics. I was under the impression that this is something we never shared with Blizz devs (even though they sometimes joined our TeamSpeak). Therefore, I thought maybe just maybe this "trick" was used on Lich King fight. Not that I cared too much about WoW at that point, so I don't think I even asked the guys what happend. I do remember logging in the day after the ban and seeing only 3 others online in the guild.
I guess the fix was buggy cause many players fell through the instance past Anub and ended up In West fall or wherever the default location for lost characters for horde was.
You were in the Algalon FK right? I've watched so many times over the years that video on macktzer's channel. Blue Sea Tides was the song in the background and if I remember correctly one of the povs was from your warrior
legend
@@Ayudado yeah I was. From what I remember the fight started from my pov.
I think never sharing that information is definitely THE butterfly effect of all time
I remember back then when people started crashing Tarren Mill server to prevent Ensidia progressing on Lich King HC. They then transferred to Lightnings Blade which had Paragon at the time.
He is obviously lying about how small of an achievement world first normal LK was, guilds were racing and ensidia were bragging like mad after normal LK
ENSIDIA CHEATED AGAINST 3 YEAR OLD KIDS IN FOOTBALL :O
HI Kungen, can you please upload your old raids talk (maybe also cut breaks etc.)? It were very interesting stories, but unfortunately I was not able to watch whole stream. Videos like "vanilla raids", "TBC raids", etc. I know VOD is on Twitch now, but I think it would be deleted after some time, so it would be shame to loose this interesting WoW legacy stories :-)
You waited till now, after all these years to give an explanation?
+bigbullbk Should have waited longer. Not getting any BETA KEYS ANYMORE :( RIP LEGION ALPHA/BETA
+KungenTV Damn that sucks. Yeah I was a big, huge follower of the top tier raiding guilds. I loved the world's first end game race. I thought what happened to you guys made absolutely no sense at all. My philosophy is, If its allowed in the game, then you can use it anyway you choose. If they did not want people to use saronite bombs, take it out the game or limit it to non raid environments.
+bigbullbk "My philosophy is, If its allowed in the game, then you can use it anyway you choose."
LOL what you think is irrelevant son, you don't own or run WoW.
" If they did not want people to use saronite bombs, take it out the game or limit it to non raid environments."
Saronite bombs affected the LK area, that is not an intended effect.
Max Beefsteak Guess no one should have an opinion in that case. I guess Ensidia should've stopped raiding and contacted blizzard and let them know they found a weakness in their programming.
+bigbullbk
TLDR
ACTIVISION merge killed Blizzard
Weeeeeelll actually the edges made it so you couldnt be dropped of the edge when those wraiths carried you off.... there was a video showing the exploit.... everything else might be true but it wasnt just "the edges were bigger".... no it was, you couldnt be carried off the edge and killed, meaning you didnt even have to kill the wraiths that tried to carry you off... so yea, big difference
Yeah I noticed that too. He didn't explain it that well taking into account it was the biggest drama in WoW and the name of his guild was in it. I'm not a pro player and I remember every phase of Arthas until this day, his sets of abilities and the mechanics of the exploit itself. As you said, it didn't grow bigger in size. It's just that the edges didn't collapse so the valkyries could safely drop anyone on those same edges. Lol
it was on Normal? well shit i thought it was on Heroic lol, who the fuck gives a shit about normal /facepalm
Doing normal was essential to do Heroic on next week. In case you didn't know: You weren't able to go ICC heroic if you don't have killed Lich King on normal first. Appareantly they found the exploit accidentaly but kept doing it since it wasn't just using Saronite Bombs in your normal rotation, they had to stand somewhere specific to trigger the exploit.
James Wayne so it was still completely pointless using it, in the end they got banned anyway lol
Yeah, it was so important and hard for them, they even done that with alts.
kungen should get his own hearthstone card.
2:21 he knew the way before us
more of these vids but tbc style please! :)
+Razer kungen had a hole stream where he talked about old days with screenshots and stuff. from the start of vanilla til when he stopped raiding :D
www.twitch.tv/kungentv/v/24560165
www.twitch.tv/kungentv/v/24475818
www.twitch.tv/kungentv/v/24703971
+Alßino thank u sir!
+Jimb Jones I wanna know aswell
i have no clue really
Blizzard is still releasing buggy instances and raids, everything in mythic+ from the last boss in Neltharions Lair resetting if he goes into lava to players getting stuck in the cage after the first boss in Maw of Souls. And these issues still have not been fixed a year after release of Legion.
If Blizzard doesn't want the Lich King to be killed because of a bug, then they need to playtest the raid beforehand. And was it out of the question that a rogue or even a healer would use a saronite bomb? Of course not.
This was a clear mistake on the part of Blizzard and 90% of the players knew that.
OMG I forgot Kungen even existed
Stars got world first yog +0 and I would say that was even harder than algalon
No boss has been harder than Algalon. Anyone saying that never cleared it early.
Yogg+0 without any help was MENTAL
Story time from Kungen? nice!
Just because I'm paranoid, does not mean people are not following me...
how can you log your alts when you are banned?
Fun fact. i Remember Kungen and Nihilum as a godlike crew with 1st kills in wow in all mostly.. So later on actually that i for the first time ever cheated in Diablo 3 of frustration cuz he with he was first ever barb got to lvl 100 (cant remember exactly what the achivement was) But i said that was imposible so i bought a bot. and ofc got perm banned. Had to write an apology letter to blizz and told why i was cheating and they lifted my ban (And have never cheated since.)
tl;dr It's K̶a̶l̶g̶a̶n̶ Furor's fault, of "Tigule and Foror's Strawberry Ice Cream" fame. 4:52 One person wanted to ban, four didn't. Blizzard. supported the unforgiving employee by presenting it as a group decision, not an individual one.
The affected guild didn't reveal this information because they were unable to describe the desire to ban in altruistic terms. They didn't view what they were doing as important, and so didn't think it mattered if how they accomplished things appeared ethical (the same way laws can be written so that someone acting "under colour of law" can avoid additional offenses that would have been avoided if their actions were actually legal, instead of just appearing so).
'Top' guilds contributed to the culture that led to discrimination against poorly-geared, unskilled, and inexperienced players. Ensidia/Nihilum ranted about bugs or difficult mechanics in early TBC, like the main tank being mind-controlled. Complaints about bugs were nothing new - Death and Taxes did it with C'Thun. But Nihilum publicly insulted Blizzard using offensive language.
Blizzard responded by giving what had been requested - harder content. But this didn't lead to 'top' guilds like Nihilum helping the game. Elitist attitudes like "no one cares about easy modes" and "items define a character or player's worth" made Blizzard think that adding the group finder, and later raid finder, to the game was a good idea. These arguably made the game worse, but the social environment that 'top' guilds contributed to made it difficult for Blizzard to see better options. It was fair to say that 'top' guilds like Ensidia were hurting the game, and that banning one was justified even if it caused those players to quit the game.
It's hard to make a video of a raid encounter interesting when you show the user interface and all the UI elements the player is paying attention to. Raider UIs are often pretty ugly. I was not impressed with what I saw from Ensidia/Nihilum.
You cheated on C'thun with the disgusting oozling.
one woud have thought he already got over it after those years
I don't know man .. I don't bother with master raiders.. the only thing I know is the gold I made from selling saronite bombs and mats to level engineering. Every dps back then was switching to engineering all of a sudden, might have been coincidence (which I don't think so, cause for the platfo to rebuild you needed to be on the edge) but I know I made a lot of gold
Was it ghostcrawler? 😂
Jesus, last time I watched you you were 30. Now you're 60.
What was your inner peace be like not to quit the game back then and still playing it?
....and then on armory all of ensida's raiders lvl'ed engineering :O
Dude that sword looks pretty cool, what sword you using and what enchant?
Oh please. theres no way this wasn't done intentionally. there was no reason for the bombs to be thrown where they were being thrown, they intentionally abused the bug. For a high ranking guild that tests things before everyone else, they would know better than anyone if they find a bug, they do NOT abuse it. it was clear that the platform rebuilding was a bug, but they dont care, they cant HANDLE the fact that they fucked up.
They cheated on normal because they thought they wouldn't be caught. it was a supposedly known fact at the time that blizzard only monitored heroic bosses. so the guild figured that blizzard weren't watching on normal. These people are not innocent. they cheated and they suffered as a result. Kungen is an amazing player, but the fact hes still defending this shit after all this time makes him a bit less credible.
You cant throw the bomb on a non existent platform. They threw it on LK himself but it bugged and spawned it in
u dumb, u can throw bomb only to an active target, u brAindead 0 iq son of a dead bitch
Can confirm every single dps in my raid was an engineer in Wrath
glove tempo enchant if i remember right.
@@parabel5437 yeah tailoring + engineering for big dick burst cooldowns combined with strong t10 and trinket procs
Hail Kungen, hail the Warrior King
Tjena broshan saknar dina d3 streams några planer på återvända till 2.4? Fan 2.4 är ju nästan ett exp ^^
"We didn't know" Kappa
+zauru192 as he said it was normal mode, why would they use them on normal?
+zauru192 well i mean, they probably knew it was a bug. However who would suspect saronite bombs? haha
They used it on all other bosses so i dont think they did
+vikelous The encounter-designers should expect saronite bombs, as they know at that time, that top guilds used it in their dps rotation. +KungenTV And here comes the answer to the question, why Blizz reacted in such manner: because they were clumsy, and it is clearly their fault, for they never tested that boss with the saronite bombs. All on you, Bli(t)zz...
+Markus köhler world first is a world first, thats why
Why you lie bruh? Unless you were tanking LK on the edge durning valk phase, there is no way you'd use saronite bombs in your dps rotation and discovered the bug. And as both of us know, you had to tank him in the middle of the room durning that phase. Unless, you knew the valk mechanic was irrelevant, thanks to your saronite bomb exploit.
how long till you quit again?
@kungenTV When will you start playing diabelo?? i have bin waitng for you to go back for over 2 years.. :( Please start agen, your clan and friends miss you
didn't you have to use the saronite bombs on the edges where no mobs were anyway ... and wasn't there a video circulating where you could see the same rogue always run out and bomb the edges for no apparent reason at all other than exploiting .... I mean I could be wrong here it's been a couple of years ... and of course they could clear normal but the tested out the exploit for heroic and the firstkill still had some prestige then ...
That could be plausible, but they still have a right to feel aggrieved. Especially when you consider the way Paragon killed Anub arak in the tier before. Perma-stunning the adds with paladins (the adds had a bug whereby the paladin stun had no diminishing effect) thereby completely bypassing an extremely hard part of the encounter.
WotLK had so many controversial world first. Exodus zero Yogg world first still is crazy.
2 be honest class stacking is still a thing to this day and abusing bugged adds or bossmechanics is not the same for me as doing something you normally wouldn't to exploit a major bug with the encounter ... but also to be fucking honest here before that ban guilds were always searching for the new major exploit and Kungen is just full of bullshit
Wachi2000 either way this was the first lich king run so the rogue would have never known the bombs would have done that
Ooh cmon kungen, just step up and admit you knew what you guys were doing. You are even going as far as "up to this date we still dont know what exactly happened". Cmon man.
BananaBread
I'm a bit skeptical too. He scoffs at how incredibly easy normal mode is, then he should've quickly understood the fact that the encounter was bugging.
You can't claim both brilliance and ignorance simultaneously. Doesn't make sense. Ya know?
Awesome man keep it up!We need more fo these stories.
in the end, it was just pve the easiest thing in world of warcraft.
Keep an open-mind here: Saying "you didn't do it" is false, but he does make a solid point about the bombs and the facts behind things like using it on every single boss, and the platform being rebuilt is a Blizzard mechanic and their problem, the fact they banned you for 3 days after they say they WATCHED what was going on is ridiculous - it sounds like the somebody not liking you story has some validity, and that's messed up. If the players have a Terms of Service, why don't the staff have to follow rules as well? I'm sure this has happened before and wasn't the last time either. In my opinion, if something is broke in your game, that's your fault; the most disgusting thing about this story is that you're telling me their internal testers didn't test something that's used in every fight on, well, the final boss of an expansion (essentially), yeah right okay.
+ZolidarPwns blablabla no one cares get over it dont act like you were there
*Sarcasm because you're too stupid to get it* Good constructive answer. What does being there have anything to do with immorality?
+ZolidarPwns FUCK AMERICA AND BLIZZARD!!! I HOPE ALL BLIZZARD EMPLOYEES LOSES THEIR JOBS AND COMMITS SUICIDE!!!!!!!!!
People with common sense knew it was a bs ban back then, but you are wrong saying that people wouldn't abuse normal mode, I ll just put here DS when lfr was released, so many top guilds abused the bug there so yeah.
+Du San They exploited the loot system though, not the bosses itself. The DS exploits were all to get people the tier set bonuses early on.
True, but its still an exploit, I don't see any difference, fact is, that was done on purpose you just mentioned..
+Du San Funny thing is there was a legit way of getting a lot of gear , they just decided to expolit.
Cant he come Back?
How do you work "things were different" and "things are ready now" into the first 26s of a video about sarobite bombs.
if you find a bug in a Game just simply report it and end of the Story!
if you did it on normal, why everyone got banned?
The original Blizzard feck up
you just said you knew the room would get bigger, still using it.. Yeah.. Pretty legit.
Every raider over a certain rank back than said this is a joke everyone used this bombs in a normal rotation.
after years the truth!
+Repanocho At least this is sort of an "official" source so the idiots that claim exploitz will maybe get it trough their thick skulls. Unlikely though.
+Jonseemann what? it would still be considered an exploit lol...
phav i Intentional vs unintentional I mean.
so you seriously think that they were unintentionally using an exploit as obvious as restoring a platform on a boss with saronite bombs? you have to be incredibly naive to think that was unintentional and to think that these top raiders didn't know that what they were doing was an exploit.
phav i Rogues had been using saronite bombs for dps for the entire expansion. If this had been the first encounter where they had been using saronite bombs then it would obviously have been intentional, but it wasn't.
Nice to see you playing WoW again Kungen :)
Didn't Ensidia exploit game mechanics quite regularly though in previous tiers? Or was that just hearsay that jealous people began spreading to further stain your good name? I have been progression raiding since Molten Core and each tier, jealous people on our server would spread bullshit about us cheating.
Also, FOR THE HORDE!
Good to have you Back Kungen, any Legion hype?
kungen come back streaming and cure my depression please
gz, he's back :D
@@ruben_m4561 aaaand he's gone
Are you talking about Furor? Alex Afrasiabi?
+Vesperwow The only 2 people I can think of it being are Kaplan or Afrasiabi. Kungen said he was cool with Kaplan. It has to be Afrasiabi. Both were big in EQ1. It could even be Pardo, but the Blizzard Throwaway account on the reddit thread (take it or leave it) confirmed it was Afrasiabi. I don't believe Pardo was an encounter designer. Kaplan and Afrasiabi both were.
+Docmarty Gotta be Furor lol. He would definitely do something like that.
+Vesperwow Wasn't Ian Hazzikostas Lead Boss designer back then? or did he not get that title till later?
does kungen have a tattoo and are there pics of it'?
Kungen my lord. How art thou?
Woah, the ground of skulls in the beginning looks like the visuals I get when I smoke weed on MDMA.
normal then was much harder than normal now
eikuulu sulle lol no
is he talking about tigole?
How about the fact there was actually no reason to be 100% sure this even WAS a bug. Icecrown Citadel is built out of......Saronite. The idea that a platform built of Saronite could be rebuilt with shrapnel of Saronite bombs isn't a very out there idea for an Easter egg in the fight.
omg THAT room......still remember the first time my toon entered icc...awesomeness........
where are u ppl playing nowdays?
Thank you so much, Kungen. I didnt understand and got super upset too that they ban your guild. My story: I transfered same night from Maggi to TM as I have heard you are leaving Maggi. Thank you for all the raids I was allowed to be with your guild, alts and mains. Loved it so much, so much, so much, ... Your merge with Envy broke my heard. I was Tharetas, holy paladin and some other alts, Pionier, resto druid and so on. Thank you so much for the best time in wow you gave me. Playing TBC classic now on firemaw. See you there. xdxd
Never knew the full story, the way i was told and read it, it seemed you cheated to get the world first. Typical bliz 'we fucked up when making an encounter so we blame the players'.
Seems like you're lying just because you started out playing it off like the room getting bigger doesn't matter. Then you compare normal of wrath to normal of modern day wow to down play it despite them not being the same. Also why would you exploit normal? To practice for heroic of course.
I thought the same thing. Just to practice for heroic. It's obvious that is a possibility and the fact he didn't mention it... Pretty sus. Tbh, if that was the goal, they could have been extending the fight in normal trying to find every little advantage they could use and prepare for heroic.
get well kungen
It was probably an accumulation of offences. You "cheated" quite a few bosses in previous tiers/expansions, right? Freya trash in the Hodir encounter for example. My guess is they were looking for an excuse because the cycle of exploit then report AFTER the kill so no other guild could follow was something they wanted to break.
+ronanmcw He talked about that too. They had to do it after they buffed Hodir (after 2 guilds killed him already) and made him unkillable. Having Freya mobs on hodir hc made the fight ever harder for healers, in fact it was even harder to do it that way. They needed some extra dps.
ronanmcw The way they killed Hodir was pure brilliance though, even if it wasn't technically allowed. Plus it wasn't an exploit per say, it was just a clever use of in game mechanics. Who knew fighting Hodir + Freya's adds made the encounter possible (just).
OK, what about Lewt's claims about your cheating on Lady Vashj? He was in the guild.
He says that he cheated on normal for practice, but how are you practicing for heroics if your cheating in normals. If his statement was genuine then his guild would have done normal without saronite bombs for "practice" I refuse to believe that the best guild in the world, did not notice that using saonite bombs made the room grow larger, These guys are the best, they see things normal plebs miss. The truth is Nihilum makes $$$ competing at the level they do, and when your consistantly being challenged by other great guilds, it becomes easy to jusitify using a cheat then pleading ignorance. You deserved your ban and hopefully you learn from this poor judgement call. Hardwork > Cheating.
+Hellspawnddm fact is if they are using saronite bombs in rotation they shouldnt have got banned for blizz making a mistake, an exploit is intentionally doing it and there isnt really any proof saying that they intentionally exploited, but the fact they had proof they where using the saronite bombs in their rotations. Its dumb as fuck if you ask me. You cant ban people for failures in mechanics and as kungen said it was normal ffs why cheat on normal.
+Ashley Goggs That statement was really stupid.. Its like saying that using aim assistance in a FPS shouldn't get you banned because there are ways to code it and the developers should "suit themselves for making a mistake".. We're all human..
If they noticed the saronite bombs made the room bigger, they could've wiped, re-did the encounter without saronite bombs, seeing as Kungen.. several times throughout the video, talks about how EASY normal mode was. I don't believe that 25 people missed the platform growing larger. Take your ban as a man, you cheated, you got rekt. You should be happy it wasn't a harsher punishment than a rollback and a couple of days ban.
even so like i said it was a one time thing you cant ban someone for exploiting when they only did it once, exploiting is knowing it happened and repeatidly doing it. And something so obvious blizz should have noticed before hand and should have let it slide.
+Hellspawnddm How would they know if it is a bug if they don't know how big the room is if they don't use the bombs? I don't really think they deserved the ban due to doing it first time. I mean, blizz could've warned ensidia the moment blizz realised.
+Hellspawnddm YOU USED AN IN-GAME ITEM CRAFTED BY A PROFESSION DURING A BOSS FIGHT?! BANNED!
Omfg how to get that Old Set?:(
Omg, LOL the bombs. Remember when you guys did that. Interesting hearing it from you tho
HE IS ALIVE
Do you know play on private servers ?
Where is your berserker stance?
you know why wotlk still was a good exp? just because about Arthas. a truly big warcraft hero
Im a little confused. Did they not test bosses on the PTR?
+Lampwik03 Didn't exist back then.
They existed, but for this particular case, Blizz decided to remove Arthas in Normal and all the bosses in Heroic from PTR. I could be wrong about Heroic but Arthas was not in the PTR, 100% sure of that
hahahah blah blah were the best blah blah were the best..... wait how do u kill this guy?? lol
Anyone with half a brain back then knew it was bullshit, glad you finally uploaded a vid telling the whole story though, and glad you're uploading again!
He's lying his ass of in this video. I remember their world first post on their website. They had the usual group screenshot and the fancy photoshops blatantly boasting they won world first normal Lich King. He's also comparing normal mode to mythic which is bullshit in today's standard. Normal mode back then was basically what heroic mode is now. They were pushing for world first during that first week of normal mode raiding. When a new raid gets released these days, do you see any top guilds ranked top 5 on wowprogress, on heroic mode? No, because the top guilds are practicing on heroic for Mythic. He's claiming they were "practicing" and could "easily" kill Lich King on normal mode, this is a lie. Normal was a little challenging, not easy. And they were certainly not practicing. Keep an eye out for this guy folks. He is a manipulative individual. His former Nihilum guild is notorious for exploiting, just search for the Lady Vashj story, which they exploited for world first and got away with it. And people for Christs sake do not give this guy your money! All he does is stream the most currently popular game of the moment, rakes a few easy bucks in, rides on his past Nihilum fame and leeches off of his fanboys money. When he gets bored, he just buggers off, no word, nothing. When he needs money, bam! he's back! The funny thing is he lives with his gf who's job is "full time streamer". Basically they are both broke. It's hilarious once you start digging into this shit.
HenryRide That eyesore of a paragraph doesn't make much sense. They killed the boss with worse geared alts 3 days later, they did not need this saronite bug at all to claim the World first, it just does not make any sense.
You then talk about Lady Vashj. You do realise just how buggy the encounter was right?
And you also realise that GMs watched Nihilumd progress raids throughout TBC, if they exploited Vashj they would've been caught. It was not them exploiting the encounter, it was the encounter being buggy as fuck.
Gotta love the little fanboys glued to his little pecker. No real arguments, so they make fun of a paragraph of text.
These are the kinds of shitheads elitist scum like Kung-whatever breeds. They're like actual children.
love the story time so much
What's the transmog on your sword?
+João Silva slayer of the lifeless
Thank you sir!
why would the best guild in the world cheat for normal? to practice it for heroic, like you just said. . . Normal was practice for Heroics for your guild. . .
So you are going to argue that you weren't cheating on normal to make sure it works for heroic? That if you made it to heroic mode you would not have used that exploit? BULLSHIT. I spoke with someone in your guild, not naming anyone. But he was always been in your guild. Extremely senior member and he told me that the person that threw the bombs knew what he was doing way beforehand and you guys all knew about it. The fact that you admit that it made the room bigger also shows you acknowledge it as an exploit that you guys used.
Wow ICC was ages ago why is he bringing this up now?
+08071991S someone asked about it in chat and he decided to make a follow up vid as part of his stream. Normal mode kills have always been jokes to top tier guilds. Had it been on Heroic for a world first then yea I could have understood the bannings. Why Blizzard didn't get directly in touch in a more normal way is beyond logic and had an obviously biased motive behind it.
RIP Muqq
Maybe you answer my question later on in the video, but it seems VERY obvious why people get mad that you do the saronite bomb "cheat" on normal? Because it means you wanted to see if it works, and you'd undoubtedly do it on HC too, given the chance, now that you know it works.
+cantfindaname123421 How could they "wanted" to see if an exploit works, if they never ever killed that boss before??? They didn't even know, what was going on when the platform "rebuilt" itself, they tought it is (part of) a game mechanic. Trolling much? GTFO
+PLord so you're telling me that a world first guild didn't participate in PTR of a new raid? "trolling much? GTFO"
+phav i I beleive the final wing of WOTK went largely untested by top guilds as they wanted to leave some mystery to the final world first race for WOTK. A lot of people were pissed as shit about it and quite a few bugs (nothing as huge as the saronite *exploit*) were found during the first week. Either way if you think they were abusing the bomb bug for world first on normal, you're being completely absurd. They had sent in bug reports after the kill anyway so you can't even use the excuse that they were testing for HC the following week as the reports would have clearly indicated to Blizzard there was a problem. Blizzard handled a situation sloppily and ultimately made no difference. Boss went down to alts, heroic died the following week. WOTK was ezpz yada yada casuals crymore
James Joseph everything you said is irrelevant, they intentionally used a bug that they knew wasn't working as intended. doesn't matter that they killed it with alts, doesn't matter that it's only normal.
+cantfindaname123421 Many many world first are abusive and saronite bomb trick is one of the least.
Pretty sure Paragon was the best guild in the world at the time of ICC, considering they beat you in ToC. But I'm just another guy
*Until Paragon claimed the throne in ToC, and never looked back since. The current top guild in world is always the one who claimed the latest endboss wf :) Just like method was the top guild in most of WoD, despite paragon having a more impressive history up until that expansion. In my mind paragon will forever be the best guild to compete in wow, just like I'm sure many people consider Ensidia or Nihilum to be the best guild ever. It's just important to see the difference between past and present, facts and personal thoughts.
Baby Rage?
Though I do not understand why you waste money for Saronite Bombs (which I remember weren't cheap) on bosses you do not give a shit about?
He says that is because it was part of every dps rotation. But that's the thing, you wouldn't waste your gold in that if it's a stupid normal boss...
All reasonably smart people at the time knew this was a BS ban. If it wasn't Kaplan, it was Pardo?? I always thought he seemed an ok dude and I further thought he worked on non wow projects after TBC.
+Gustaf alex afrasiabi
he even says he played against him in EQ, and alex is known to be a giant egotistical douchebag
Ok. Thanks. Makes more sense. I guess "the other guy" when talking of Kaplan just made me think of Pardo.
kungen keep them comin ir the man
ur* -_-
LOOT THE BOSS IT DRIVES ME NUTS! :D
We need moar stories! Please Knugen
You can't say that "normal" is easy for top guilds, when you have another video saying that classic wow is harder than the expansions, because as you well know there was ONLY ONE level of difficulty in classic wow.
Please don't tell me they were hard, because I done them, and that doesn't mean that I should be in a top guild.
are you saying that the ''ONE'' difficulty from vanilla is just as difficult as normal from wotlk and others xpacs? because that is just wrong.
+Arthur Vandelay Difference is that after TBC they nerfed normal and made the hard fights be in heroic
Who was the one Dev that wanted them banned?
+Tha Dood I don't know his name but it's fairly obvious being American he was just salty the EU raiders were/are superior
So Alex Afrasiabi banned you guys (as he's the only other EQ Blizzard guy I know of). Classic Afrasiabi.
Yea it's very true about normal mode, i remember being blue geared and fullclearing icc first week, not even sure if we wiped. Not sure why would anyone get banned over normal mode, the loot in icc normal mode was pretty trash too considering how easy first wing heroic was
@phatal45 its because he is lying
@@robertk49 Lying on the internet? I can't imagine someone actually lying on the internet for the sake of their e-peen
"i remember being blue geared and fullclearing icc first week". lmao.....
Very few guilds (relative to how many were actively raiding at the time) actually cleared ICC week1. My guild got a US top25 kill on lich king heroic 25 (world 98th), and we did not clear it week1 on 25man. Maybe we should have, but we didn't. Quite a few guilds that were higher ranked than us also failed to kill him week1. I'm talking guilds that had tribute to insanity in ToGC25 months earlier (our guild was world 149th, i believe, on tribute to insanity 25man -- we were getting climbing the ranks fairly quickly from Ulduar into Cataclysm). In fact, we almost had tribute to immortality on 25m (only death the entire run was a mage who DC'd just before getting targeted by Anub in p2 --and if you raided back then you know how difficult that feat of strength - was too hard to make an achievement - was). Yet we didn't get a 25m normal LK kill week1.
Luckily, some of us went on to do 10m later that night and literally killed him on 10m normal on our very last attempt. That was one of the most satisfying raid nights ever, since that meant we were able to do heroics as soon as possible. Between shit I read in youtube comments and (especially) the shit that people would say during my time playing classic, it's INSANE how many people are either straight bullshitting about their past experience or have lost their minds in the 10-15yrs that went by since then.
Anyone who really wants to know can always check the data that's still out there -- i'm surprised how accurate it is still after all these years.
”Best guild in the world” LUL
I always thought it is funny that, at release of wotlk it became Activision Blizzard and everything went down hill from there. Out of WoW's entire timeline it somehow lines up perfect with the company changes.
Ingame items for money also became a thing at the same time.
you do know that 85% of wotlk was made by the offcial blizzard team right? they released wotlk in 2008 and activision tog over at the same year blizzard. Blizzard projects are pretty much made finished when they release thir games... the pre-season up to cata tho and cata is made by activision blizzard ^^ and yeah thats when thir player based falled dramaticly down... wotlk is the wow that had most active users at all time xD