The PC industry is in crisis... and can't continue this way...
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- Опубліковано 21 лис 2024
- The PC industry is in trouble... lets talk about it.
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"We don't have scalpers now." ... Yea you do, it's just the manufacturer themselves. NVidia saw what people were willing to pay scalpers and said, "wow, we're selling too cheap!"
Well that and before scalpers really got going certain significant government officials caught wind of Nvidia's success and began insider trading it. They began getting more and more consumer hostile ever since.
Nah they made the 1080ti too good in terms of cost to performance relative to the longevity of cards versus gaming demands and learned their lesson. They also knew Moore's law was on its last legs and that its requiring more and more power draw to improve performance. That's why frame gen is the future atm. Fact is people just don't need to buy cards as often and except for the ultra enthusiasts almost no one upgrades every single generation anymore.
To be fair, as long as people are still buying up, why shouldn't they increase the price as much as they can.
it's now ilegal in a lot of states now to sell produce higher than MSRP. so that's how a lot of scalpers died off
Bingo.
I miss the days when $600 gpus were high end
My Gran Gran Gran Gran Gran Dad bought 150acres of land for 75$... Tell me about inflation
Like i bought my 1080 from Nivida at 520€ and that was an Hig-End card at that time.
A high end motherboard was $150 max
i never spent more than $350 on a gpu before rtx.
@@fabrb26You think Nvidia pricing is because of inflation? 😂😂😂
Not only are prices AWFUL, quality control for such prices is WORSE!
I hear you! I am so sick of hearing hard reviewers talking about things like DLSS/FSR/XeSS when the reality is, those things are only needed because the GPUs are so bad performing that they can't run games native at the resolutions and frame rates people expect for the price tag. "DLSS On" only tells me that that $1600+ RTX 4090 can't run games at 4K with the very visual effects like ray tracing and path tracing that Nvidia are pushing down our throats; and we see this in Black Myth. Same thing with AMD and Intel with FSR or XeSS. It doesn't matter if DLSS looks better than FSR, I only need to use them because the GPU can't run the game well enough in native resolution.
@@elr77So Nvidia is doing something wrong by only giving 50% uplift per generation at the high end as opposed to.. what in the past? 30% instead?! 4k is over 2 times as difficult to run and it is just now becoming somewhat standard in the PC space. You cannot up resolution and make far more demanding games and expect that your standard uplift is not enough. This is exactly what I'd expect and it makes perfect sense. Play older games at 1080p or 1440p if you do not like the performance of the high end. How do you propose Nvidia makes more powerful GPU? Use the 2nm node 3 years before it is viable? You want to have your cake and it too. Nothing wrong with the performance of new gpus. Only the price is bad.
Yeah... no. I've literally seen boards from back in the day that came in the box lopsided lol. You hear about every little mistake now because of how the internet is but I'd say it's about the same as it's always been.
@@christophermullins7163 I can tell you right now, going by the most widely used metric, Steam charts, 4k is not becoming standard. According to steam hardware survey, over 56% of people still use 1080p. Almost 20% use 1440 and those are the two largest. 4k only accounts for 3.93% of users. I am speaking PC because that's what this video is about. Considering Steam dominates 75% of the PC gaming market I would say those stats are pretty reliable.
I don't even care about that price isn't cards. But the QA is what's awful and atrocious.
Gamers becoming adults has done terrible damage to the industry. Charging the cost of a beater used car for a video card is insane.
You hate Capitalism, Ivan?
nah, it's called inflation. A $600 card in 2014 would be $~900 today. A 4060 priced in 2014 money would be ~$200. Basically, the prices haven't changed that much, if at all in some cases. Unfortunately while your money has devalued by insane amounts in the past 10 years, your wages haven't increased similarly. That's the real problem here.
@@moonasha half true, Chip is A770 is huge(product by TSMC like NVidia) almost like 4070ti.
MSRP 329 vs 799$. Thats show how huge profit have Nvidia. Nvidia also make this 4060ti with 8gb instand 12gb. Thats show how Nvidia **** us. Why ? bcz they can.
But till 600$ maybe be finally now better. Battlamage and RDNA 4 looks decent so Nvidia will must to cut a bit profit for this range price (High-end be like is rn).
@@moonasha They are all next to worthless the minute you open the shrink-wrap... The argument that needs to happen to fix this actually has nothing to do with it at all.
Dude, where are you buying a bester car for less than 5k?
I build computers for a living, and ever since you've adressed the power consumption issue in 2020, we've been limiting the wattage and undervolting the CPU's, LIKE YOU TOLD US! Our temps are great and we haven't had ANY 13 or 14 series CPU failing on us.... Thank you SO MUCH!!!!!!! This has REALLY saved our warranty claims!
i suspect the power hogging was an effort to keep gpu miners from hogging inventory. because miners want the most efficient hardware to hasten roi and start turning a profit. so a card that sucks 300-400 watts is not a profitable card. it worked because gpu mining is effectively dead (eth going proof of stake also, but it did prevent a competitor coin from taking its place).
@@LordOfNihil Would the manufacturers really think that far ahead? And that's GPU'S of course... I was just commenting on the CPU's... 😅
@@LightningTechNL you need a lot of smart people to make chips. also there were mining algos that could use a lot of cores, i suspect power hogging stopped those too.
Unfortunately the degradation will still be occuring (but at a slower rate) because the voltage spikes, despite the undervolting, are still occuring and the circuitry needs stable voltage for longetivity.
I've never had any issues with my i9-13900K since launch. Intel themselves state to set the max power limit to 253W.
It's a mess because the hardware makers decided to up the price when people were selling at extremely high prices during C19. They thought they could get away with it permanently.
I agree here - the prices of hardware has gone up considerably. You can get low performance devices for reasonable money, but that's not giving me much improvement over the i7-2600 that I have, and that was a pretty good rig when I built it a decade ago.
Thing is, they kind of could. The 4090 GPU market is for people with plenty of money to buy even $5000 cards. Titan cards have existed for far longer. People also used to buy 4 cards for SLI. The problem is more the cheap end isn't that cheap anymore due to poor competition leading to rising profit margins plus rising production costs so we get less VRAM to cut corners, it's not great.
And it's not just hardware. A lot of manufacturers across basically all the industries did that. The post C19 inflation is mostly driven artificially by corporate greed.
None of them THOUGHT they could get away with it.....everyone IS getting away with it. It's ridiculous 😑.
not anymore.
Over on the car channels, they’re panicking over the collapse of sales.
Over on the bicycle channels, they’re panicking over the collapse of sales.
Meanwhile, PC industry still jacking up prices….
why are we talking about cars? aren’t cars expensive already? plus there is car sales so I don’t know what you are talking about, same with Motorcycles as well there is sales every year.
@@rainbowdash3419 I’m pointing out similar collapses in consumer interest across several industries.
And they will see a collapse in the computer industry also. People will stop buying.
@@rainbowdash3419The point is, these expensive products are not being sold any longer.
@@failingup4907 not enough regular consumers are pc hobbyists so they will just get whatever pre-built pc or laptop is available within their budget
Minimum wage in Greece is like 780 euro (like 870$), from taxes, electricity bills, water, internet.. then there's food which has literally doubled in the last 3 years, and if you have rent -- R.I.P. Currently I cannot support my favorite hobby, I used to always be able to by the high-end stuff, build a good PC and keep it for ~5 years, now I can't even buy a budget one. It's bad.
A month or a week?
@@kyzer9144a month. Its similar in “central” europe
dont work for a minimum wage, i nolifed all my life and got a 1700euro (before taxes) manual labour job this year
Its not only the PC industry . . .
It's the culmination of everything. Personally, I think it's too much money being poured into R&D. I'd prefer they let others do the research and then help perfect it. Not the whole thing cause that's costing too much.
i agree. businesses just dont seem to get people still have a cost of living crisis and are NOT an infinite pool of cash they can expect any price to be paid from.
also the video game is in really bad shape
The auto too
Tech is doing mass layoffs and the price of everything is going up. So, it's really rough out there. Especially when McDonald's cost $20, pg&e and real page exists. The pandemic and the promise of a good generative ai have fucked the economy.
The fact that i can still play games on my 1080 and ryzen 1700 has kinda shielded me from industry issues
Yeah, my 1080 and i7 8086k are holding on fine still
my laptop (old one anyway) is on a 6gb 1060 and a 6th gen i5. My son is on Ryzen 5 and 1660 and my other son 4th gen i7 and a 1050Ti. We use these machines daily for gaming with no problems at all and my old laptop still gets occasional Oculus VR use...
None of this is anything new, yeah it sucks but just like anything you either adapt or learn to be content with what you have and look for other ways to improve your experience. Problem is complaining about prices of a hobby and entertainment items has become and art form for people in this space...People don't know how to be content with what they have. They blame companies who have always had a mission to make money. If you don't like it save your money, or work extra hours...Or, just don't buy every new thing that comes out. Younger generations have no idea what priorities are.
@@DaysofKnight Same boat - BUT, the next gen of games are putting me at risk of barely being able to run on my system. Plus at 7years old, the components are giving indication of tiredness, and my wife's PC (same model/age) died about 6 months ago.
my 1080 ti was a great card, upgraded last year for a 7900 xtx for 1k can . no way im paying 2500 plus for a 4090 here in canada
Everything is too expensive. Like everything. Even food is ridiculous. I can’t be the only one whose suddenly scraping the barrel and struggling their tits off
I feel you bro. I wouldn't be surprised if most people are just holding off for upgrades for several years.
I just bought a used 3070 for 120 dollars. The new gpu prices are stupid
No way where?@@sharpasacueball
this las year has depleted years of saving massively
Good deal.@@sharpasacueball
The consumer is just as much to blame as Nvidia for buying their over priced over inflated GPU's in the first place. As someone who has always gone with Nvidia I refuse to pay for their cards and have now gone with AMD as they're cheaper and there's not a massive difference in performance.i wanted the 4070 but got the rx7800xt instead as it was between £100-£150 cheaper and was faster in most cases.
@@danieljones112 same reason I bought a 7900 xtx . Was literally half the price. Here in Canada 4090 start at 2500.00 plus you got to deal with melting connector
I just haven’t upgraded I’m still on a 2080
same here i'm in love with my 7800 XT and it cost me a fraction of the nvidia equivalent, its unreal!
Nvidia puts BILLIONS into their marketing to make you WANT their product. Humans are humans and they are fallible, you can't blame people for falling for their tactics. It's all them, the second you have to appeal to people's common sense to fix a companies wrongdoings you're lost. Their greed and the system that screams for continued growth is to blame, not the individual that gets bombarded with ads and influencers and tech-channels and and and and.
@@peterpeter5666 and for 4090 you need massive case and thats another $$ to spend
Many industries are facing similar issues-monopolies, a lack of creativity, and minimal critical thinking. We're seeing the same products repeated across different regions. If we remain stagnant like this, it’ll eventually lead to significant problems. This is just common sense.
look at what CHINA is doing to the "western car makers" EVERY "western" car maker is in some sort of financial crises over massive sales drops
... but .... but .... infinite growth! The shareholders need more yachts!
If you want to break monopolies, elect people that will encourage competition and innovation. If you hate Nvidia’s prices, stop buying high end GPU’s. If the market goes away, things will change.
@@Andy-AJC72 I don't have much choice other than Nvidia. I've been using newer updates of the same creative CGi software and their big thing is Nvidia's Iray render engine which only works on Nvidia cards. Being 55 I am too old and set in my ways to relearn a completely different software suite for my hobby. More memory = more complex scenes. More CUDA cores = faster renders. LUCKILY I managed to get a decent ASUS 3090 that retailed for $1600 for only $900 on a newegg flash sale. No, I won't be buying a 4090. this 3090 works just fine for me, but my point is, some of us are locked into certain things unless we want to spend a LOT of time relearning everything.
Many business sectors seem to have declared winners, leading to different priorities by those winners. "Value extraction." That, and you can only invent a refrigerator, car, microwave, or smartphone once. So...what's next? I swear it's not EVs, AI, or IoT.
The main issue for AMD is that people want them to compete only so that they can buy the Nvidia card cheaper they don't buy the AMD card, so I don't blame them for not competing. I'm one who would buy the AMD card though, as they're good cards.
I don't buy NVidia out of principle ever since they discontinued support for my decade old laptop GPU and there was no way to use newer OS versions, practically making it unusable even though the hardware is still there.
Well, people would buy AMD's cards if the software wasn't so dogshit. If AMD _actually_ competed people would buy their cards. But AMD is about doing minimum possible and hope it works. Look at their new cpu's. All of these companies needs to take accountability and make better products and not go entirely after profits. Not just AMD. But all of them. Nvidia cards costing over what inflation has caused is insane.
I'm with you 💯. The 7700xt is a great deal right now and it somkes the 4060ti but people still buy the 4060ti for more money lol nuts
@@highpol1ceThe software is a dream on Linux. And with proton games work nowadays.
@@highpol1ce The software is good now. Has been for a while, and you still buy Nvidia. I've been on a 6800XT for over a year and I don't see ever going back to nvidia. 4k@120Hz, Let's go
Let's face it. The romance has gone from PC building and it ain't coming back.
I saw that garbage tier Apple phones are selling for as much as 4090 cost and the romance immediately came back
@@goochipoochie Bought a car for the price of that 4090 money. 2 years later it still starts and runs everyday without issues meanwhile my friends who prioritize their PCs, some are crying about they cant afford other things when they waste money on PC gaming.
@@Serathera Should just buy a ps5 at that point. 🤣
@@xdarthpool6463Nah the Ps5 is overclocked junk, it’s bound to fail eventually.
I'm going to stick with my 5800X3D and 6800XT for as long as I can. As long as my games look good to me I'm not going to upgrade.
yeah i just got a 5700x3d from a 5600x, and went from a 1070, to a 6700xt, and now a 6800xt all in less than a year.
I just upgraded from a 3600x to a 5900x with a 2080S I got used. I’m only playing at 1440 and it runs great. Some games I have to drop to medium to get 60 fps, but most games look so good now that even medium looks amazing
I got a 6800XT last fall. I feel like it really hit the sweet spot of price to performance ratio. And it's even cheaper now a year later! Sure there are higher performance cards, but they're at a price jump of several hundred dollars for even a 10-15% improvement. I can even game in 4K on my OLED TV pretty decently with this, so I don't really have much incentive to go bigger than this yet.
I’m on a 3700x and 2080s, waiting to see how AMDs 8000s compares to the 7800xt in cost/performance. Everyone told me in the beginning of 2020 to wait and not buy a 2080s because of the 3000 series and I truly feel like I dodged the biggest bullet
Saaame here with my 5950x and 6800XT. I wouldn't say no to a 7900xtx, but im also not ready to pay $800 for one.
Well, seeing how the games industry is actively committing suicide all around us, the GPU issues aren't really that big of a deal anymore...
its a joke, most graphically impressive games are terrible. most great games can be handled by 10 year old cards,
Bollocks, I will buy a 5090 for the new Factorio expansion.
What’s even more insane is that graphics are starting to look WORSE in modern games compared to 10 years ago. The game industry hasn’t left 2014.
I went back and played through crysis 3 the other week and I'm like wow this looks as good as anything that has came out the past 5 years, lol.
@@poppers7317 watched my friend play that crap for 10 minutes a while back nearly feel asleep at the keyboard. Litrally...
Wait... The 7900XTX has already been out for 2 years?! Jesus, time flies!
Nvidia is the true scalper, manufacturing is already pretty cheap for the gpu dies, but they get people with the "RaYtRaCiNg" and "AI uPsCaLiNg" bullshit and basically get away with absurd pricing.
True, their exaggeration of "RAyT RACING" is too much.
I'm pretty sure all those buyers buy them out of free will because they think they need a quadrillion frames per second for some few hours of gameplay a week on their 4k monitor...
@@germanmosca Ah yes the edgecase uses that 99% of people who are buying these GPUs for gaming, will never use. If they werent marketing towards people who play games, they should have benchmarks in their talking points. End of story. Yes, they are used elsewhere, this conversation is about enthusiast builders and average PC players. Grow up.
Yeah they get them real good with these gimmicks.
This is true. AMD GPU's were built with only gaming and gamers in mind based on how awful their drivers are for many forms of CAD. Games are alright but still not flawless which is rediculous at the prices they ask now.
Nvidia aims more at creators than on gamers in recent generations, and it's paid off 10 fold.
Also there is the fact certain very significant government officials I will not name are insider trading it... and things have been going downhill for normal consumers ever since. The writing was on the wall. We should have seen that coming.
TLDR; Shit is too expensive.
Shit being the operative word. You don't even get quality assurance for the price anymore.
@@subcon959 Yep. I'm considering RMAing my graphics card due to two wobbling fans on each side.. I bought that shit NEW, come on!
Quality is the missing factor! Cheap crap at premium prices is where this went wrong, with no genuine quality alternaives.
Lol cry harder 😂
@@christophermullins7163thank you for your words of wisdom.
If the graphics card costs more than a mortgage payment, we got problems with greed.
They also draw insane amount of power. Not that big of a problem if you also use them to heat up your house.
Hell, when you can build an entire, mid-range pretty good PC for the cost of a graphics card, thats an even bigger problem (with the price of the card, not the cost of the pc)
So get a bigger house!
If you're monthly paying bills worth a 4090, you've got plenty of money for a 4090. Most of the world isn't paying that much in 3-4 months all bills put together.
@@OlettaLiano Consumers dont care about consumers! look at these sheep sleep on the street so they can get a 3090 or whatever on day one. Dont blame these guys for all your problems.
The biggest factor for hardware sales is on the game development side of the equation. Games have always been a driver for PC hardware sales. Lackluster games equals a decline in hardware revenues.
back then games were made with love, times where they had to offer innovation(thru code) in order to run things on limited hardware, games had to be a good reason to buy them
The level of greed is insane.. and the level of complacency is just insane.. we need to stand up and fight and stop all these monopoly greed corporations! I've been waiting for the 4090 to drop to a reasonable price but it looks like I will never see that happen!
Your money is worth less than it was. Without knowing it you now make less than you did.
@@SamotOremor It’s not greed. It’s the free market that brings about excellent innovation and progress. If you take away the free market you will not get people to invest their time into building a better product. There is a market now for a $1800 GPU thanks to people buying them. If everyone said nope $500 is my limit on a GPU they would stop making over priced cards to play games on.
if the 5090 has 48GB of VRAM it will be bought out by AI developers. Sadly gaming is not high on Nvidia's priority, so they can sell these cards at a premium.
This. The largest Blackwell chip will probably have support for 32 or 64gb of vram on a 512 bit bus, but there is no way nvidia gives that config to gamers when AI cards are selling 5k or even way more.
I'd expect them to cut the bus down to 24gb or 28gb. That way they can give the best yields to AI for 5k each and give the leftovers to gamers for 2k or 1500.
@@b127_1try 2500. 1500 ain't happening, and 2000 is too littlr for scamvidia.
@@b127_1 I think you are right, but I feel they will charge $1799 for the 5090
Never ever 48gb 😂
@@b127_1 $1500 for a 5090??? I wish I had your optimism....
You forgot to metion that Microsoft are a bunch of psychos hell bent on making WIndows uninhabitable
Laughs in Linux.
Smart PC owner use custom Windows like Ghostspectre, free from whatever the cr*p Microsoft shiet flood that bogs down the system. Or Linux like @SirRoundPotato above.
It truly is the best advertising for Linux.
Increased intrusive advertising presence, deprecation of more usable legacy interfaces, practically forced use of Microsoft Edge with pages using the edge protocol, removal of software choices outside of Europe, forcing people to have an Internet connection for Home tier and below, an absolute flop of UWP software distribution as they transition away from local software binaries to proprietary cloud-managed software…
Then, there's what Microsoft had been doing with the _company;_ hankifying Game Pass, chasing trends which blew up for other companies stuffing AI into everything co-opting it as _their_ trend, practically killing off its DEI division, showing its _true_ unreliability through CrowdStrike because they bowed to pressure from McAfee and Symantec, which trickled down until bad code broke Windows instances around the world… _no_ Microsoft, you cannot stuff the entire world economy and say you'll _do better._ Sam Bankman-Fried couldn't do that when he practically destroyed mainstream crypto exchange, you don't get that luxury!
So for those reading this, Linux isn't that hard to wrap one's head around. I dare say, even an Arch Linux-based derivative like EndeavourOS wouldn't be that hard for a half-competent computer user to install so long they know how to manage partitions across their various media and use conveniences like Ventoy to make bootable USB-attached media (almost) painless to use, and look past a vocal minority's toxicity while finding answers to whatever issues they may encounter. It *_doesn't_*_ suck_ to use these days.
I swear that if I had to teach some grandma to use a pc, it would be easier to teach how to use simple distro like Linux Mint, than the overbloated clusterfuck like Win11
I actually like the ifixit advert bits you do... I don't know if I should be disappointed in myself or not.
Everything has been WAAAY too expensive the last years. Way beyond ANY delivery chain increases. More like turning the price meters to 11 and wondering with a surprised pikachu face when sales drop heavily.
Stock market capitalism can't afford anything but growth. If it stalls investors momentarily move their funds to new areas collapsing the companies and , more importantly, the pay check of the executives.
The only way to fix the problem is severe restrictions on stock market practices and executive compensation policies
iw not seen vn complaining about sales all i see is people complaining its too much. Well guess Me/We people that actually got money make up for those lost sales i got no problem droping 2k on glpu every 4 years its cheap comparing to my car hobby where 1 trackday can be like 500 in total.
Unfortunately its supply and demand. If people are willing to pay 3k for a 5090 then it doesn't matter what the nvidia msrp is, it will sell for 3k on the market. If people are only willing to pay 1k for it then that's what it will cost. We as consumers need to vote with our wallet
@@tsorevitch2409 that won't happen. Expect a crash.
@@devilselbow High end cards can fuck off the market. Who cares what the 1% of PC gamers are paying. The problem is that they are raising the prices of every single part. So 100% of the market is screwed.
1070 launched at 379 USD... the 4070 launched at 599 USD...
amd 480 8gb launched at 229 USD...
prices nowadays are trash. Im still on my old 1080 TI.
Ain’t nothing wrong with that 1080ti.
@@CantankerousDave I'm a 1080p high framerate guy anyways. Ill probably upgrade in the next gen or two.
Got my 1080 for 300 EUR almost 5 years ago, and it was the best decision of my life. It is still good and the cost has easily been worth it considering I've had it for 5 years with no problems or thoughts about upgrading it
Still have my 1070 just on a 5500 not the 7700k I build it with
I bought two 1080ti's on release day, one for my son and one for me. Still rocking them both today! Doesn't make sense to replace them with 4060s. I may wait till APUs are faster.
4090s have been plentiful in the UK because nobody can realistically buy one so they've been in stock pretty much the whole time.
I could of bought one but I refuse to pay more than £500 on a GPU that's getting binned in 5 years.
@@Christina-g4s I usually upgrade every 7 years
Wrong they were NOT in stock at all the time I wanted to buy one there about two years ago... I know... I was waiting on one and had a script tracker watching the main sites for stock... so had to buy a 4080 instead as soon as a good model came into stock.
@@anone3842 they were scalped right at the beginning when they launched but when the hype died down they were consistently in stock everytime i checked they were there even on the nvidia website.
@@Christina-g4s could have not could of
The only fair UA-camr who has a good connection with the audience and gauge of their pockets. Very useful and concerning video. 🙏🏻
All this just reinforces that I couldn't care less about the latest hardware and am more than happy running decade old stuff.
Last game I played was that Quake 2 rerelease, and that ran great on an older iGPU.
Same here. Time to work through that pile of shame
Lossless Scaling frame generation is different than DLSS/FSR upscaling tech but really helps if you cannot get 60fps to 120fps naturally, or useful on games with 30fps lock to improve without speeding up the physics or scripts. The only cost is input latency so don't use in shooters.
I'm still on super Nintendo 😂
It's not only PC, the problem is the markets in America are nearly monopolized, there's no competition so the companies are doing what they want because there is no true competitive second option.
Not just in America.
Agreed, not only the US; its a global phenomenon.
Not being naive here, and completely agreeing with the observation that it's not just the PC market, because yes the markets in America are now monopolized. The only thing that would wake up the PC market is more independently made video games AND movies and a distribution that is not going to make it impossible to have the efforts of independents, shared. Of course that's why I do listen but it comes down to those who wish to be creative an independent free from rule by corporations.
BECAUSE.
MONEY.
PRINTER.
GO.
BRRR.
Blockrok vanguard state street own 88% of everything
This is the end result of big corp buying little corps till there are only a handful of corps making EVERYTHING.
It’s cheaper to buy the competition than to compete against them. It’s a one-time cost, and then you jack up your prices as much as you want.
@@CantankerousDaveif companies could they would 100% destroy their competitors rather than buy them out or create better products or services than them. And by destroy I mean literally blowing up their competitors' factories, warehouses etc. They would much rather sell the same product at a higher price each year forever than build a better product.
Honestly I feel like the world would be a better place if it was outright illegal for companies to buy other companies. Force these companies to actually innovate.
It's called late stage capitalism, and we are in it bro.
@@christopherjunkins It's the only viable system.
To think I reached your channel researching on liquid cooling exactly because the issues of LGA1700, and now years later I dodged a bullet thanks to that.... Love u man
06:00 I think you're wrong, only the scalpers now live in the NVidia offices.
after getting sick of the rat race, i built a $1200 7600/7800xt gaming rig in a fractal ridge and called it good.
That's what it's truly about :)
Going with the same build in a few months and the specs are good for at least 5 years.
Eh.. 7600 is about 6600xt. 7800xt is about 6800xt. AMD is selling the same performance for more price over last gen. That’s what Jay is talking about.
Keeping up with Jones's as the old saying go.
@@kelvinjinxd true but I feel the 7800xt will age a little better / stay relevant longer than the 6800xt
I'm not as knowledgeable about computer tech as the average person who comments here, but I just wanted to make known my sincere appreciation for you, Gamers Nexus and the other content creators who report on this industry.
We should all do as mush as we can to support you guys.
We just want to have fun with the hobby we all love and, unfortunately, the companies responsible for this don't share our passion and lack the sincerity and professionalism to facilitate that.
It's getting more depressing every year to follow this. Instead of the excitement shared years gone by, we dread hearing news.
Anyway, my rant for today. Best wishes/blessings/kudos, etc. to you and all the other content creators in this genre.
I stopped supporting Nvidia years ago (aside from the ticker), happy with my 7950X3D and 7900XTX. Even my Plaid has a Ryzen.
Disposable income is at an all-time low.
Disposable income has only been a thing for middle class and below since like 1950 aaaaaaaand....it's gone
@@alynch9846 Nice reference
@@alynch9846
I think the definition of the middle class is having disposable income. So it's more accurate to say that the middle class has been shrinking for a while.
And the breaking point was the 70's, that's when GDP and wages went their separate ways. The former up, the latter nowhere. It had a couple of reasons from political changes (Citizens United), automation, offshoring, etc.
@Solveq I would if I didn't require an eight hour rest period every 24 hours.
Actually, it's been almost a year now since I lost my previous job. No one wants to hire a computer repairman so I'm back in college as a young adult (luckily) and trying to pump up those paper skills. It's only a certificate though, so it won't be as worthless as a degree.
And before you ask, I refuse to return to food service. That was my first job in high school and I remember all the bs. Give me a desk job and my sanity tyvm.
@@uss-dh7909 I worked two days in food service and couldn't handle the rudeness. You guys are absolute warriors for even going through this
Here they say "it's the fool who is willing to pay it and as long as that fool exists, as long as that price remains high".
there's that and then there's also "is it still good value for someone"? For me that price is stupid but I spent a lot of time at my PC gaming and so the value for the time I invest is probably still there as sad as that is. and to be frank I can afford it but I'm good with my 3090 for now.
That's all nice but if you are the only seller of the given product, ie. you have a monopoly then there will always be a fool willing to pay. Cause people will just keep needing graphics cards. And it's a market that is so difficult to enter that there is no easy way out of that situation.
Are you a fool if it is the BEST and you can afford it? My youngest son makes over $300k a year. Do you think he blinked when he bought his water-cooled 4090? Now that said, he has no plans to buy the 5090, he thinks that would be foolish.
@2528drevas While that salary is meant to sound high to those reading the comments, it really isn't, depending on location and expenses. I would say luxury goods are foolish on principle, but if competitively priced are understandable for those with actual expendable income (most that consider themselves wealthy rarely actual do have income that should be considered expendable). The 4090 is foolish. A graphics card is not a vanity item, yet was priced as such.
@@2528drevas I don't think he blinked. That doesn't make him any less foolish. We're already passed the point where people like that have inflated the price of video cards for themselves.
So yeah, not bright.
The thing is we're paying way more and getting way less. That's just a fact of reality that no one can deny.
We are paying way way more for a little bit more.
5% generationally (or borderline negative 5 in regards to the 4060), is apparently worth 100 bucks more every gen… and AMD is 100% in bed with nividia
@@heatnup compared to other generations, we pay ALOT more, for ALOT less.😮 Not to mention service is at rock buttom too + around 50% of RTX 4090 gets cooked, and wont be worth fixing/isnt sustainable. No 1 talks about how many still breaks😮
Pretty sure you're not getting less. Cards aren't going backwards in power.
@@albert2006xp generation wise. Price to performance you are.
*About the AMD situation, they said they werent making anymore high end GPUs and heres a crazy thought. Maybe they werent lying, they can still compete in the mid-range market where MOST of their consumers are*
It’s been 8 years now since my last PC build. Here I am today waiting on Amazon for my case and a few other parts after a Microcenter run yesterday. I spent a LOT of time watching videos from Jay and Steve over at GN. I’ve never built an AMD before until now. I was sure I was going to go Intel again until I watched everything on all the over volt issues. I also stayed away from Asus after so many negative reviews. I’m thankful for the good resources we have available to us. I’m hoping things go smoothly with my new build. 😉👍🏼
Here here. 2017 on my rig. Been watching and waiting for the”right time” 😅
Best of luck I like to build every 4 years. I built my current rig in 2019, and have a pretty nasty itch to build again. I'm planning on waiting until around March 2025 just because of the current state of everything. I may tone it down and stay mid-level if things keep going the way they are, and get more into console gaming.
@@lazarus2345 ps5 pro is $700. The cost of a “low end” card… but keyboard and mouse play suck on consoles
I built my current rig in December of 2023. I paid attention to what Jay, Steve, and Paul were saying. I built my first rig with help from Paul's videos on Newegg. This one is a 7800X3D, on an Asrock mobo. I'm using a 4070Ti, because the Supers hadn't quite come out. I wanted DDR5 RAM, and USB-C in my case. I'll be waiting at least two more years, probably three, before I build another. I can't see spending another $2000-plus on anything I see coming in the next year or two. I retired in October of 2023 and don't have a bunch of money to play with. I'm debt free and hope to keep it that way. So I'll keep working with what I have, and maybe things will settle down a bit. I'm not optimistic, though.
@@CrackMatrix Yeah you're 100% correct. It's just with the current state of things with lackluster hardware, and manufacturers that are almost anti-consumer *cough ASUS cough* it's getting to be too expensive and too much of a headache for me. The next money I spend on my PC will have to be earned by the manufacturers, I'm just not giving it away.
Prices are too high and the economy is shambles and in Canada the prices to build a pc insane
I guess we'll have to make due with older hardware
The economy is in shambles? What planet do you live on? Maybe it depends on how you measure, but your personal economic situation is not a valid measure.
Record highs in the stock market. Record corporate profits across the board. Lowest unemployment rate in over a decade. You can argue that corporations aren't passing those profits on to normal employees, and are price gouging their customers. That is true, but that is a different matter. nVidia messing up the market and screwing us over doesn't mean the economy is in shambles. It means they can sell us anything and we'll still bend over and shell out the cash for them.
@@a5cent Someone has been drinking the Kool-aid. Tell us more about the wage to home ownership disparity. Tell us about the millions who've outright left the workforce completely and aren't being factored into unemployment. Tell us about inflation rates and median salary increases. Tell us about the index of mental happiness. Etc.
@@cup_and_cone That’s because Canada (and most places tbh) don’t build housing
Residential buildings should just be permissibly allowed, no zoning review, just safety code review
@@a5cent I guess not everyone is a corpo or a investor with decades of history trading in the stock market. About the unemployment rate, that's relative to your country.
0:11 he did it! He said the thing!
Roll the credits!
About time! Lol
Insert pointing and whistling meme
I don't get "no pun intended." The name of the channel implies that someone name Jay is going to deliver opinions. It's not a pun, just an acknowledgement.
woooo!
Graphics card prices tripled - not doubled.
I remember being disgusted when I paid €700 for my 1080Ti. Now you easily pay €2.100 for a 4090 🤮
At least you got something that still works great today thanks to FSR.
If you are buying from the top shelf regardless the price -- you are the part of the problem
I spent some time abroad and was unable to watch your channel. So glad I am back!!
it's problematic to maintain competition when 90% of customers buy Nvidia without a valid reason, especially in the mid/low range. I can understand those who buy cards like the rtx 4080 and 4090, but those who buy a 4060 must explain to me what they have instead of a brain.
Truthfully? As stupid as it sounds, the 4090 sells the 4080, the 4070 and the 4060 class GPUs.
The highest performing processor in a companies lineup is what sells the rest of the lineup.
Because its nvidia and its the best at RT and has D.L.S.S, frame geberation, ray recontruction. Nvec nv voice. A.i tensor.....
Most people don't compare the performance of the 7700xt vs the 4060ti for example even though they are in the same price range.
Even if someone isn't buying a 4090 or 7900xtx they will justify their lower tier card purchase by the 4090 vs the 7900xtx.
I mean it's true that in the lower end, AMD is very compelling cause it usually offers more raw power for the price. But nVidia has kinda reputation of being reliable and having a flawless software support. And to a degree it's kind of true. Yeah something like serious raytracing or DLSS is truly more of a domain of higher end cards and yeah both of these features are dominated by nVidia as AMD's alternative is not that good. But it kinda goes also into drivers software and overall game optimisation. In vast majority of cases game devs make sure to optimise their games for nVidia cards and nVidia always releases specialised driver updates before launches of major games. And when you hear that some gamers have performance issues with a game it's almost always AMD cards. nVidia is kind of treated like Apple. It's expensive but 'it just works' and the user experience is good and software is polished, kinda the best there is. AMD is cheaper and a bit more powerful but buying it can often be risking potential issues and giving up some features. I mean nVidia even has that stuff like AI for webcams and mics and their recording features throught nvidia xperience are pretty neat too. Not sure if AMD has an alternative but yeah.
@@kevinerbs2778 All gimmicks. RT looks terrible and grainy in most games and requires TAA to hide that grain and pixelation. DLSS is nice but isn't a selling point IMO because it is always better to run at native resolution if you can. Frame Generation adds a bunch of latency. Ray reconstruction makes the MASSIVE performance loss of RT more acceptable but it is still not worth it to lose all of those frames.
To quote all the CEO's
"You are not the customer we are looking for!"
Why sell one card to a consumer, when you can sell 10,000 to a customer.
10,000 to a customer who will pay 6x as much because business money isn’t real
@@the48thronin97i don't gonna lie to you.
Most of my 4090 for server their was pretty close to be 3 x 2 😂.
Because i buy many with some discount.
And i don't even close of the biggers data brokers centers. Who have billions from the investor's.
To much of the market problem is related to the USA credit tendency.
They dont really have the money, but basically use the promise of payment has warranty.
So they paid with the profits of a "promise".
I have a friends in the bank who complain about how many people in USs actually still thinking that "the credit is free money" 😂.
You forgot the Jedi hand motion :)
Yeah i remember when the 3090 came out i was "what do people need a 3090 for?" Its AI and VR... even back in 2020 its not the games are HEARING about that people want these big cards for.
It's underground/niche stuff...
@@VioFaxThey GPU are high end processors , and there are even sample analysis teams that used them before they became popular with the release of Crysis.
The real dude is why you want one for play videogames? don't you think?
I know people who have fun training algorithms.
Nvidia only uses gamers to grow and has to prove their technology, is that a bad thing?
Everyone does it, so I don't think so, there is a sector that produces a more consistent income with added benefits when you are in growth stages.
Then you move to the sectir you were targeting in the first place. And if it is viable to go back to the previous one, you do it.
It's not even a question of business, it's a question of, "what it takes to get ahead."
I think the point on capitalism it was "i can pay more, i can have more".
I bought a 13900kf.
It died.
Intel's been giving me all sorts of shit trying to get it warrantied.
Sub par performance. Unacceptable.
The sad thing is what can you do? Besides pursuing your warenty rights, of course. Saying you will never buy Intel again (or AMD) is not very practical or relevant, with only 2 companies in the market. The same goes for GPU's with AMD and Nvidia. With Intel still having tiny markethare and also a gaint in the industry. 3 companies controlling the 2 most expensive parts in a PC...
@@GroetenUitNederland yup. As consumers, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.
Tell me Intel has lost a customer for the rest of your life 😊
@@christophermullins7163 thing is, no.
I'm not brand loyal to either side.
And truth of the matter is, what's to stop AMD from making another bulldozer?
@@mikschultzyevo the issues with bulldozed showed up in the reviews. Intel's dying CPUs did not. Very different.
A lot of us outside the US, where electrical prices are absolutely insane, really do care about nearly halving our energy usage.
The price gouging never really stopped after lockdown. The industries suffering now are ones that tried to normalise it.
Owning a 13th gen cpu i learned more in the last 12 month about the motherboard bios than in the 35 years before that.
Your videos helped a lot, so thanks for that.
If you've gone 35 years without learning that says more about you than anything else.
Sure glad I built my current PC with a 12th gen Intel a couple of years ago or so. No reason to upgrade for quite a while.
@@-Devy- Someone shouldnt be required to learn how to mess around in a BIOS.
It was never an requirment.. but then it became a requirment so you can try to stop your Intel CPU from self destruction.
Would you say to avoid the 13th gen for new buyers? Or have they kinda fixed the issues now?
You think Nvidia RTX prices are bad now?.. Just wait for 5000 series without AMD competition.
well, we used to update our GPUs every 2 years. now we get used to not update 'em or resort to second hand market. its up to Nvidia whether or not they wanna sell new GPUs at all
@@vvhitevvizard_ They don't need to anymore why make GPUs for gamers. When you earn far more from AI/professional....
Will be sticking with my 6900xt and 5800x for another 5 years minimum, why upgrade when prices are silly and what we have still does what we need with ease...
My old PC died at the height of the shortages during COVID. I took the word of everyone (including Jay) about why that was - COVID shutdowns, droughts in manufacturing locations, and crypto bris buying every GPU in sight - not the fault of the hardware companies everyone said.
I sucked it up and forked out the money for new hardware. Then yearly earnings were reported and ALL of the hardware manufacturers reported recort profits.
I'll keep gaming on my current system as long as I can but I'm done with high-end gaming systems going forward.
45 years of gaming on PCs but they've brojen me. I'm done.
No need to be so dramatic, yes the state of the industry is not looking very good but at the same time for a working adult switching to the latest stuff every 4 or so years shouldn't be that big of an issue. You very likely earn that much in like 3 weeks. So saving 3 weeks worth of your wage every 4yrs is hardly a big issue for something we all enjoy so much
Buy used if you want to keep money reduce sales but still have newer gear
Yup, same here, never again getting the very best GPU or CPU. Last 2 PC's have been in the middle and have worked perfect for me.
Likely the bargain gaming system packages sold by PC orientated stores with a newer GPU are good enough for most gaming. Then you won’t feel bad when you replace that $1400 PC with a newer one in 5 years.
I bought my computer from a work buddy, who updated in anticipation of CP 2077. The components are 10 year old high-end. I've yet to find anything I can't play with it. Sure, some more demanding newer games may require a High graphics setting instead of Ultra, but with modern graphics that isn't that big of a issue. I just started shopping around for a new GPU, and current low-end GPUs are more powerful. You don't need to update constantly.
I just built a new PC for the first time in about 15 years. Went for a saphire 7800xt for the graphics and am running it on an LG 1440p Oled monitor. It crushes my Xbox series X into pieces. People just don't need high end stuff in mid is incredible.
What most people don't understand is that _raw power_ is not even in the top three reasons to support PC gaming over Big Console.
They will never make a mistake like 1080 Ti ever again. That card is so good it will probably hold up until 2040. That's why they no longer release such a good product.
3080 is the better 700usd GPU than 1080Ti
😢 rocking my 1080ti. Faster than a 3060 ti.
@@krizby87 Take a look when the 1080Ti came out and count the years to today where many still run that thing and the newest games. The 3080 never sold for 700 but the 1080Ti did! From a 980Ti to a 1080Ti was a performance jump like from a 1080Ti to a 4080 nowadays. Unprecedented till now! 700 bucks and you were golden for a decade! Well the ATI Radeon 9700 20 years ago was also amazing!
That was the time we actually loved Nvida, yes? *sarcasm*
Titan x have more vram then the 1080Ti literally the upgraded version of 1080Ti . I think they should release also 1090Ti version the GPU is still useable today..
They did another better GPU on gen 4 rtx 4090 is over powered alot.. especially the matrix rog version is banned version it is hard to find it
This pretty much sums it all up Jayz.
Great takes. Genuine and authentic with that deep sincerity. More folks needs to hear this.
IMO, one of the major problem is that the industry currently rely on a single company to make the most advance semiconductor die, and their capacity is finite. With the increasing demand from datacenter industry which brings in more money, its hard to imagine things will ever get better for consumer segment.
As much as people love to hate on Intel, we desperately need them to do well in their fab side of things.
CPU's aren't the real expensive component. It's the GPU's. We need Intel to do well with their graphics card division. Get AMD and Intel to compete while nVidia prices themselves out of the market since they have their AI buyers.
There are several new fabs going up, here & around the globe. At this point for Intel (at least for me) the only way i'd buy a CPU from them is if they used their Fab to produce for AMD lol... actually thats been true for me a very long time, as a kid they stiffed me on an RMA, never purchased anything since then, decades ago.
That's what we said about AMD around 6 years ago.
The REAL issue is Nvidia has no real competition. They will greed themselves into pushing folks out of the PC market and into Consoles where AMD gpu's rule. Great business move Nvidia! /s
The PC industry feels like a race to the bottom right now.
Graphics cards have always been kind of pricy, but not obscenely so. Then, crypto came along and a bunch of people realized they could use them to literally print money. And lo, was the market repeatedly gutted as the price of crypto fluctuated. Then the crypto gold rush finally died down... and people realized they could use all those now useless GPUs to create and sell buzzword heavy chat bots.
I do get a warm fuzzy when I see scalpers still trying to sell off cards they overpaid for 2 years ago, and likely realizing they aren't gonna get their investment back.
I would feel REALLY warm and fuzzy if the federal government were to pass some scalper's tax law! Specifically, an at least 80 percent Capital Gains Tax for each scalped sale! I would classify as a "scalped sale" the selling of any item 50 percent or more above its MSRP. For instance, let's say that you sell a $500 graphics card for $750. Because that $750 is 50 percent above that graphics card's MSRP, this would count as a scalped sale; and would thus be subject to the scalper's tax.
@@jeffzebert4982 Just charge the tax anywhere above msrp. If not, they'll abuse that 1% under max amount.
@@jeffzebert4982 You just defined the limit for scalping. Scalpers will go all the way up to that limit. The root of the problem is price fixing and the artificial limiting of supply. The FTC used to hawk over companies over these types of antitrust violations, but corporations have had so much political power in recent years that the balance has shifted in their favor. We all need to urge the FTC to break up Nvidia and AMD if they’d rather engage in this price fixing behavior rather than compete for the good of the consumers.
I'm praying for Intel to get their GPU drivers sorted. We really need 60 class cards at 200-300$ again.
Not happening bruh, at least not in the next 7-9 years, just as AMD never catched up and competed with Nvidia for halo/high end, Intel won't be able to catch up or compete with AMD on low/mid end especially now more than ever due to their poor sales, stock market tank and going to get lower margins on the new arrow lake processors due to TSMC manufacture, that means Intel is going to jack up the prices because they can't sell at a loss, their hardware will be expensive and going to be very hard to undercut AMD. Intel joined the GPU market to abuse crypto back on 2021 but they missed it and now they already lost so much money.
People and reviewer would have to recommended the card for users to actually find driver problems. Can't you see every influncer trashed arc cards for drivers & said don't buy the arc cards.
I have an A770 and it is pretty stable now. There have been some concerns with some new games like Space Marines 2 and Black Myth wukong (I don't have them, just heard of the mediocre performance) but it generally performs well in most games now.
@@trueNahobino I think they sorted, or attempted, to fix old DirectX APIs. How's is that holding up? If you play any DX9 games or below that is.
@@Voldson I don't have any DX9 games so I unfortunately can't answer that
People are poorer when compared to 30 years ago. The money is in companies nowadays. Really sad, basically the downfall of the middle class.
I have little to no disposable income for upgrades or hardware. The economy is actually very bad for the working class
Joooooeeeeeee Bidennnnn
Add to that the rest of the rotting world with worse economies
@@timrogers9191 not every human lives in the us?
@@2z1t0by9 Yet many countries are affected by US state of economy.
@@2z1t0by9 The other top ten "richest" countries have tiny markets.
Moore's law is ending around the same time that improved graphics rely on more and more computationally expensive techniques and large data centers are being heavily invested in for the purpose of mobile computing and AI. So supply is down, the ability to improve rapidly year over year is getting more expensive, and yet demand is up so it's no wonder prices have responded.
I think within the next 10 years we'll begin to look at the computer industry the way we look at the car industry. Innovation that can actually push performance will slow to a drip and you'll buy a new card when the one you have gets too old to operate correctly, not because you need a new card to keep up with graphics.
exactly!
10 years might be too long of an estimate. It's either in 2 years or 4. Just look at ps5 pro price. What about next gen nvidia.
I agree. I think that 10yr time period just started and a lot of people think of their GPU purchases in this way now. NVIDIA DLSS tech also supports this behavior.
@AaronLDeWolf
What you describe is already happening, it's jusr that the heart of the issue lies more on the software side of things currently with big game dev studio's pumping out tired and unfinished/poorly implemented trash these last 5 years or so.
Cpus can’t keep up
Many things definitely have doubled in price if not more
There is an easy solution, just don't buy these over-priced cards.
the problem is constantly rising prices to the point where mainstream is getting kicked out for lower-end quality oriented products. these companies have gone from small to full fledged shareholders deciding the next move. ive learned about more smaller companies for keyboards,mice,headsets,cases in the last year than i ever have.
It's not just PCs. Look at auto manufacturers. They have bragged in their annual.reports of being able to increase the per transaction (sale) price five percent above inflation.
Nvidia makes 10x income on AI datacenters compared to gaming PCs.
Nvidia just doesn't care about video games anymore. It's just a legacy side business.
I truly believe the poor adoption of the 9000 series is because many of us are waiting for the 9800X3D. A TON of people in the gaming market jumped to 5800X3D (me included) and 5700X3D. There is no point to go for the 7800X3D from where we stand, but once the X870e motherboards come out, there finally might be an incentive to jump to 9800X3D. I still have my €1500 which i was about to spend on EKWB components for custom loop, set aside, waiting for the 9800X3D, X870E mobo and 64 GB of high-speed DDR5.
The 9000 series wasn't markwted against the 7800x 3D. Thats what reviewer decided t o compare it to
All while known that the zen 4 3D is already on average 20% fastet than normal zen 4 in gaming.
It’s also because it’s barely faster than zen 4 while being more expensive. Zen 5 is garbage; as far as gaming uplifts over zen4 at least. No reason to buy it
I think the problem is different, people with 5000 and 3000 ryzens and intel equivalent stuff are probably just not in the need to upgrade at all, espcially if 7000 and 9000 are that close anyway
Why would there be? Are there some games that 5800x3d is struggling with?
As long as the 9800x3d can get a few extra frames at a resolution most aren't going to buy it to play at, they will be good. They have a good advantage.
Rasterization REALITY :
RX 6900 XT 16GB > RTX 3090 24GB
RX 6950 XT 16GB > RTX 3090 Ti 24GB
RX 7900 XTX 24GB > RTX 4080 Super 16GB
RX 7900 XT 20GB > RTX 4080 16GB
R9 290X 4GB/8GB > GTX 780Ti 3GB
HD 7950 3GB > GTX 680 2GB
HD 4870 2GB > GTX 9800 0,5GB
Radeon 9800 Pro > FX 5800 Ultra / FX 5900
The invention of the FPS counter was the single biggest contributor to this industry. I remember the good old days when I was happy to not be playing a pixelated slideshow.
Apparently 4090 owners are sad because you're still playing pixelated slide shows. "4090 isn't even strong enough to run cp2077 at max settings 1080p" 🤣 they falling for Nvidia trap lmao
@@christophermullins7163 Not really? Look man I own a G9 monitor 5120x1440 dips down to 40 fps with everything cranked on my 3090 and I dont agree with the cost of a 4090 but its like actually double my 3090 in almost every game I play with out dlss and I need DLSS to hit 120fps in cod with lowered settings the 4090 has legitimate use depending on your setup and some of us literally cant play some games on lower end GPUs
@@MichaelJohnson-uo3ef you highlighted my point exactly. In the 3DFX days with 4x3 monitors, you were happy to be playing something that looked good and ran “smoothly”. We had no concept of an arbitrary FPS number. Monitors weren’t faster than 60hz. Then someone invented the on-screen counter and it psychologically made us want bigger numbers.
@@MichaelJohnson-uo3ef sure man.
@throwthrow-c7e not really
I purchased HIGH end, back when parts were super high. Spent WAY more than I should have. Would I do it again? Nope! I'd do it much smarter next time.
As for "don't upgrade!" jay is right, better plan on having it forever. And I planned on that, til the whole "we stop supporting windows 10, software/games, etc. are FORCING requirements on things and GPU is pushing the need for windows 11, so then you are FORCED to go out get a new motherboard, new cpu, etc. All in the initial BS of "defend your privacy lulz"
What really annoys me is 2 years into this generation there's still a large price bracket where RDNA 2 is pretty much the only game in town.
RDNA 4 is out soon.
Below $600 is rdna2 and 3 only.
And people still buy nvidia anyway
@@oimazzo2537that's what has lead here, in some respects consumers only have themselves to blame.
@@jonathanellis6097 I agree, even if usually people that follow tech more are not so adverse to not nvidia stuff. I say plenty of amd sensible options and even some intel used amonmgst the usual tech video viewers
I just checked the price of a 4090 for laughs and I did laugh...2400 for an Asus brand 4090 on new egg. Just horrific.
It's funny cause you can get a 7900 XTX for like $850 - $900. For rasterization it is almost as powerful as the 4090. Really my conclusion is that consumers are just stupid lol.
@@truedps8 agreed.
@@truedps8 That's exactly it. Many of the games with better graphics that you'd buy a higher end model for include RT or even PT these days. I bought Nvidia (not the 4090, though) for that reason because RT/PT matters to me in the games that have this feature.
@@123Suffering456 I mean the 7900 XTX can do ray-tracing decently well too, not on par with the 4090 but it is serviceable. Granted I don't think ray-tracing is worth the performance hit in most scenarios...especially if you are trying to do it at 4k. I believe the 7900 XTX is about equal to a 4070 TI for ray-tracing. I think the main thing Nvidia has going for them is DLSS, but personally I do not like upscaling at all. I instantly notice the blurriness it causes. Native is much much better. I am curious, how often do you really use ray-tracing? Like with your last 10 played games, did you use full ray-tracing in all of them (if it was an option)? Personally I only consider using ray-tracing in older games, in newer games they just aren't well optimized, so ray-tracing can cause less than 60 fps even with a 4090.
People are overpaying for gpus. Most games utilize cpu a lot more so you are not gaining that much performance for paying double the price of a recommended gpu
I disagree that people don't care about CPU efficiency. Ever since Skylake people have been making fun of Intel for pushing more power in their CPUs and their CPUs getting hotter. Now that a CPU maker focuses on efficiency, suddenly "nobody cares". If people don't care about efficiency, then what was the past decade of making fun of hot Intel CPUs all about?
That is because people are just looking to find something wrong with said product. They actually don't care. Why you think Intel still had higher market share even with worse efficiency? That is because for most PC gamers performance is the #1 priority. You can't take what people say on the internet at face value. Those same people will complain about said product but will still go buy it. So to really answer your question Intel's efficiency really was never a problem for most people until the CPU started failing.
Catching up for all the dumping on AMD being hot garbage all those years prior if I had to guess, came in to PCs coincidentally during skylake with a 67k at the time.
@@akmid60 It started failing because of the extremely poor efficiency and pushing them to their limit. So yes, efficiency matters.
Intel who?
@@Son37Lumiere I didn't say efficiency didn't matter did I. I said performance was #1 priority until they start failing. If most people cared more about efficiency then Intel would of lost market share faster then they have.
Glad we can be an outlet to things in your head🙏
the ifixit ads just keep getting funnier and funnier keep it up jay!
Every time it plays I always chime in inside my head, in high pitch and the new minow.
It's the only ad a watch
Just to do some opinion load balancing, for me it was annoying, forced, and it made me question the sanity of a decision to watch the rest of the material.
Just about every PC builder on youTube has already told me to either buy a 3060 ti (JayzTwoCents) or a 4070 (Daniel Owen and a couple of others ) before the 8000 series has even been announced. I really do not see why AMD should bother when the PC community have this attitude.
trueeee. When he just did a video the other day that people should be more worried about food on the table.....
So, it's like which is it?
Problem is, making modern electronics is so capital-intensive, both in r&d and manufacturing, that only large corporations can afford it. This results in lack of competition and lower quality as even they seek to reduce costs.
This will be getting worse.
Nvidia's moat is 90% software. CUDA monopoly.
Finally, youtube advertisements that are fun to watch! kudos to Jay and it Ifixit.
I'm still using 1070... it still works, refuse to spend ridiculous money for an upgrade... plus the new memory/motherboard and cpu to utilise it...
I had a 1070 for a long time I picked up a 3060ti and it was a massive upgrade a gigabyte card is $285 on Amazon and used 1070s sell for $90 so sell that and you only in around $200 with tax.
I think people are starting to realize they don't need a new phone, GPU, CPU, console, monitor, ect every year. You can absolutely wait 2, 3, or even 4 generations without really seeing problems.
20:14 That moment when you realize you spend more time tinkering with your hardware than actually using it LOL. We've all done it with either PCs or guitars or cars.
Overclocking days and now undervolting days.. love it.
Thing is, the new process nodes tend to be so expensive that the performance/chip is going up, but the performance/$ is close to stagnating.
I used to live a few miles from Micro Center, back in the day. It was a PC builders paradise. The clearance table was epic.
Nvidia taking cards back and gonna rebadge them into 50 series. Wouldn't be surprised
They would have to re-engineer them with the AI component. Still possible I guess.
the next generation is supposedly going to be like the jump from Kepler to Maxwell, except for the 5090.
I mean amd did it with 6000/7000 series.. so why not? lol
Jay, no one has the money to spend on PC parts anymore. Have you seen the economy? People aren't even going to movies. It sucks planning anything besides groceries and bills right now.
I make 109,000 a year as a offshore worker. So don't say no one. but I am sure i am the 1% but still
You say this as if there are still good movies being made to be watched. It's 99% absolute trash from Hollywood so obviously no one is going to the movies.
People don't go to theaters because of home theaters, and to add to that the movies atm almost all entirely suck... if not all of 'em depending on who you ask. It's all just the 29387489 e10 people on the planet without a paycheck that keeps up with the cost of living, companies don't care if no one is buying, as long as the 1 whale buys they are good... I mean look at that space game that has hundreds of thousands of dollars of stuff to buy... AND WHALES BUY IT... like wtf. Add that in to greedy house builders and sellers and well.... yea the pc market did the same thing, just on the same bad trend. Late stage capitalism BABY!! WOOP!
@@Rommel12 Heck not even the stuff on streaming is as good as it once was. Look at D+ for example of that... I mean Netflix cancels all it's good stuff cause MONEY!!!!
Didn’t we have three different recordbreaker movies this year? People are still going to the movies but just like with the tech products it’s this contraction to just a few competitors
I've been planning on upgrading my CPU and GPU for a while, and hearing this news is not making my hopes for that come true at all. I have a love for custom gaming PCs and this PC I'm currently using is my first ever build on my own, and it's lasted me since 2021, next year it will be 4 years old, which also means, everything in it that has a warranty will be out of it lmao. I always try to buy PC parts with the "budget" mindset where I'm not interested in high end cards, I just want something that will last me a long time without having to upgrade, and that's usually where my money goes, I don't treat my mother board and power supply with that same mindset because going cheap on either one can sometimes prove to be a mistake. So, yeah, that's my thought on how things are at the moment, I'm worried, and something needs to change, hopefully sooner rather than later.
If they are better than your current GPU just buy something from AMD or Intel to foster better competition. It is up to the consumer.
I'm in the same boat with you, dude. Budget graphics cards nowadays are still more expensive than my 3050XC was. Not cool.
Just go up 1/2 gens and you will be good for the next 4/5 years
Thank you for testing all this hardware. I appreciate these videos.
The prices are crazy...
Thanks Obama. I mean Biden/Harris
@@ldope3904 I don't know what's more ridiculous, you thinking that global graphics card prices are nuts because of Democrats in the US or you thinking it will get better with Trump's import tariff.
@@ldope3904 I forgot that Obama, Biden, and Harris all run NVIDIA! What a fun fact! Theyre clearly the reason nvidia is taking advantage of their dominance in the GPU space!
Absolutely based @@ldope3904
the consumers are crazier. paying this shit
I left the market 2 years ago because of all the scalpers inside the store (bestbuy and a few others got caught reselling at scalpers price) and outside in the e-market. However, I love Jay's passion and insights so I stick around.
Thing is Jay, I am solely a mid range Gpu buyer that has zero interest in the high end. Is AMD abandoning the top end not good news for me?
I have been a PC gamer since before the IBM PC existed.
Hmmm... I think the mid-range market will see some fierce competition. There is a chance that even Intel (if they go on with designing new video cards), will be part of that competition too. I am sure both Nvidia and AMD will love to hark in those mid segment buyers, because they are the biggest market. And that segment will be growing, while the high-end will be shrinking.
Look at it this way. How many people are able to buy a 4090? And I am not even talking about the 5090 that is to expected even more expensive. There are not that many buyers that can afford these cards, and with the way the economy is going right now, there will be even less in the future. To put it simple. What do you think is more profitable? 100 people buying a 2000 priced card or 2000 people buying a 500 (or even 800) priced card? The answer is obvious. I think AMD has realized that as well.
And this predicted competition can only be good for the consumer. Sure, you won't get top ranged cards for a low(er) price, but you surely will get a mid range (or even above mid range) card for a price that is attractive.
Is it though? The high end models set the pricing across the board. I wouldn't expect to find new mid range gpus for less than $500. A major mid range design win for AMD is the only thing that might make any difference to prices. I wouldn't hold my breath, but I suppose it has happened maybe twice in the last two or three decades 😂
You need halo products to put your name in the papers. Mid-range won't do that, can't do that. Those few customers that put in the work to do their research might go for products of a mid-range brand - but most won't even know this brand exists. People only see "Intel" and "nVidia" stickers and buy THAT, even if it costs a bit more. Silently screaming "We're here too!" with budget cards won't make you a household name, as much as that sucks.
The market is in a very dark place right now.
@@jclosed2516easy, they'll just raise the price of mid range. If the people won't buy the high end prices they'll just make mid range the new high end with some stupid excuses for it
@@thedoomslayer5863 Nvidia, AMD and Intel do that all at the same time? I don't think so. If Nvidia raise the prices, then you can be sure AMD or/and Intel will undercut them. The same is true if AMD or Intel does the same stunt. And yes - Intel is interesting for the low-mid tier. They all want a cut of the mid range market, because (as AMD already noticed) the high-tier market is drying up. Prices of high-tier products are becoming out of reach for even enthusiasts. Only hard core (and wealthy) users spend that insane amounts of money.
For someone who has built and used PCs and especially gaming PCs for 30+ years this is a humbling watch :). Such deep understanding of the industry and technology and how it effects you as a consumer
I remember when I got a voodoo 2 graphics card it was affordable and there were plenty of other makes to choose from and it ran every game maxed out way beyond 60fps.Those were the good old days.
the past few years have taught me to just be happy with what I have and to take care of my things more across all things. Still satisfied with my gtx1080 with 6700k
I upgraded last Christmas from a 6700k, 1060 6gb, 24gb ddr4 to
13700k, 3090ti & 64gb ddr5, I was thoroughly disappointed to hear these CPU’s are faulty.
The only reason I got a 30 series is because the 40 series had reduced memory and were setting on fire.
I must have spent £3000 total on my entire setup (including monitor). Yet I don’t even play the latest games, just the same old games.
Maybe it was a waste of money in retrospect, I will personally never buy anything Intel or Nvidia manufactured ever again.
This is probably the most important video of the year regarding PCs. And I agree completely.
The price on a Strix 4090 is INSANE at the moment
I don’t get why the STRIX lineup has such brand loyalty. I go by law of the cheapest model
@jameyt1 usually higher clocks and better coolers
It's because they are going our of production
@@supercool_saiyan5670all the 4090s are over engineered so better cooling wouldn’t matter. All of them can handle 500w of power. Even if the strix cards are higher binned (say +500mhz on the memory higher and +100mhz on the core) that’s like at best 7 more fps for an insane markup
Bro a Nvidia 4070 here is on average 800 USD 😭
3080s if you still can find them are higher priced than the 4080. . . it is stupid.
Even AMD cards are stupid expensive.
The age of infinite growth must crash eventually...
well bescue we are not in outer space that can keep that going. there only so much one planet can handle by the way.
Complete collapse of civilization is coming.
Remember when a Voodoo 2 was $300 or a 8800gtx was $600? Pepperidge farm remembers 😞
i memba
8800gtx a used (and it was pretty dusty and heavily used) $8800gtx was $1200 in my country back then.
But because my country was crazy, there was ATI Radeon HD 4770 for example they were asking for $850 while it was $280 online.
8800gtx in current $
will have cost 936$
and 386$ for the voodoo2 and still need a 2d card
still half price 😁
Ah, a time, long ago, when there weren't just two major graphics card brands to choose from.
well if you want you can buy those for cheaper now