I was running a side by side setup using a CEM60 at very close to a 60lb payload. The new CEM120 is on the pier with just the Esprit 120 at the moment. I had to use the HC network reset to get the LAN connection working but no startup issues otherwise. The forecast clear skies were cloudy but everything seems to work. I was a bit surprised at the whine when the mount slews to target, much louder than the CEM60. Thanks for your videos on setting up the mount.
Thanks, glad the hear the video was helpful. Yes the CEM120 does make a bit more noise compared to the CEM60 and seems even louder in the dead of night and everyone is sleeping :). CEM120 is a great mount so I'm sure you will be pleased with it. Clear skies.
Hey Logan - This is looking super cool. Even the ability to just leave both on and pick which one you want to use is great. I must admit when you were balancing I found myself nervous for some strange reason 🤣. I also appreciated the double cap 🧢🧢 approach, you should consider a four stack for full coverage lol. Look forward to the follow up video. :)
Thanks Ollie. Yep double cap means double projection, particularly when follicularly challenged like myself. Trust me I was nervous when I did the balancing too - kept checking those clamps were super tight.
Thanks James. It's still a bit frightening to see it slew around, seeking out it's target. Now I just have to work out the software changes to make it all work as planned.
Maybe trim your dew shield a touch to fit it all in. Can't wait to see more on this rig, looking at something similar so any learnings & tips will be great.
Thanks Andy. I actually do have a dew shield that I trimmed a while back to try and help with wind but I think I might have trimmed it a little too much as I still get dew forming on the corrector plate when pointing straight up, even though the dew shield does have a heat strip in it. But I might look at trying that again only this time not getting too enthusiastic on the trimming 😅. There isn't a lot out there on UA-cam about setting up such a dual rig (I'm very much a visual leaner I've realised) so I'm hoping that my video(s) will be useful for others such as yourself thinking of going down a similar path - if nothing else to see what mistakes I make and avoid them 😂.
Hey Logan, that’s a SERIOUS Rig you’ve put together there mate!! Awesome, not jealous at all 🤥 I hope you can figure it all out and I look forward to part 2 to see the outcome 😀 Best wishes and Clear skies
Thanks Simon. Assembly was (disturbingly 🤔) more straight forward than I thought it would be. Getting the software to work correctly is a different story, mostly because now I have to learn the advanced sequencer in NINA. Clear skies.
Hey Logan great video. Aa a result i picked up this same Primeluce dual saddle for my rig but noticed you cant really move the saddles closer in to dec axis because the saddle clamps then hit the dovetail. Seems a bit odd they would add all the holes but dont allow the silver knobs to clear so you could move them inwards more. I guess you have to use washers? Thanks
Thanks. Yes it was a problem I came across when I wanted to move them closer together so I've left mine far apart as a result. In retrospect it might have been better if the primalucelab plates were a bit thicker to get a bit of height above the knobs - or use two dovetail plates bolted together to get more height but that's more cost unfortunately. Using washers might introduce some flex in the dovetails (possibly) as they have such a small surface area.
That looks very impressive mate, I've watched quite a few of Steve's videos with his RASA twins & that system seems to be holding everything rock solid. Look forward to seeing the next installment, clear skies!!
Thanks very much. Lots to learn with the software changes I am going to have to make to get these two running together. Up until now I have been using the simple sequencer in NINA but have now been forced to learn the advanced sequencer so I can use the synchronised dither plugin.
Love the setup Logan, alot of planning has gone into these rigs. Great to have these options available. With my setup I’m going to get the new ioptron harmonic drive and set up independently on the new deck but I’ll be in a set up tear down scenario again for that one 😢
@@LogansAstro yes no counterweight required … I’d reckon you would get your espire going ok on that! They say even an edge 8HD. Not sure about that but I like the portability of it.
This is superb Logan! - I've been considering a SBS setup someday like this so I watched along eagerly! Really useful information mate, thank you for making this! :-)
Thanks Luke. Yep it's a whole new learning curve for me. I have had a couple of very short windows to test out the synchronised dithering and it seems to work but I now need to spend a bit of time making sure I have all the settings working correctly in the NINA's advanced sequencer so that everything runs smoothly (well as smoothly as possible). Imaging with the two scopes at the same time will probably be something I'll do occasionally - this setup was largely to allow me to easily switch between my scopes for imaging without having take one off and swap it over with the other etc. Hopefully I can get an informative Part 2 video out once I've had a descent go at imaging with this setup.
Thanks Avanteesh. Yep it is a bit crazy - looks more crazy when slewing around in the observatory😱. Unfortunately no, you can't do two targets at once but you can do two different perspectives on a the same target, one wider field and then other closer in on an area of that same target.
Another excellent video. Thanks. Any thoughts on OTA spacing along the crossbar? Wider spacing will slightly increase the DEC's rotational Moment. [MxD] Which might affect slewing. Depending on the speed, acceleration and braking.
Thanks. Yes I would recommend trying to keep the OTA's as close as possible for the reasons you mention and for making it easier getting both OTA's aligned on a target. Unfortunately, the shallowness of the cross bar along with the position of the knobs on the saddle meant I had to have them quite far apart. CS
Nice work so far ! looking forward to your experience imaging with both scopes simultaneous. I have similar gear, a Celestron EHD9.25 and Esprit 120 on a 10µ GM2000. I just haven't tried imaging with both at the same time, as I thought it would be beter with a more matched imaging scale. But I get your take on it having one scope for the bigger picture while the other focuses on a detailed part. Good luck!
Wow you have a nice setup there. Probably most of the time I will end up doing the same as you and image separately with the scopes at different times but sometimes doing a combined image would work also. Still working out the kinks in the setup but so far have managed to get the synchronised dithering working on a couple of short test runs.
Interesting that the Primaluce Labs plate fits in the cem120. I have the EC version and having a bit of a nightmare getting hold of standard 'Losmandy' plates to fit. I keep getting referred back to the Celstron CGE plates which are clearly out of stock pretty much everywhere. Nice to know, will have a look at their offerings now. Cool rig, nice simple video. Subscribed.
Thanks very much for checking out the video and for the sub 👍. The Primalucelab Losamandy plate fits nicely and is fine for a normal single scope setup. The only issue I had, as you probably saw from the video, is that as the plate isn't particularly thick and the knobs on the CEM120 saddle got in the way of my two saddles. As a result I can't really move the scopes any closer together because of that.
Thanks Simon. I have quite a lot to learn running this setup. I think I will often be running these separately rather than at the same time. I got tired of swapping over these two telescopes every time I wanted to go for a small target like a galaxy etc with the Meade. Running the Meade outside the observatory was always a bit of a challenge as we get plenty of breeze/wind here and it doesn't take much to move the SCT around, especially with the dew shield on. Part II will be the software side and first light imaging with both scopes at the same time and using synchronised dithering.
Looking great Logan. very impressive set up. just need those clear skies now. One question that I did thinkof is did you check your 3rd axis balance? With that heavy load it could be a big factor when you come to guiding and imaging with it.
Thanks Glenn. Yes very good point about the third axis and no it's not something I have checked yet. Although I have had a couple of short test runs and the guiding is showing an rms error of between 0.35 and 0.5 but I will definitely check the third axis.
Thanks. NINA does have a plugin called Synchronised Dithering which I will talk about in my follow up video. Effectively, the rig that is controlling the guidescope will wait for the other rig to finish it's exposure and then do a dither.
@@adrianphotovisions2308 Yes, you just run two instances of NINA and in the advanced sequencer, make sure both sequences have synchronised dithering setup and they should talk to each other.
Awesome Pls, How did You fine Align both scopes, or 1 of them, so you would have the Same FOV? I tried doing two TOAs 150, but I could not find a plate that could withstand the weight for fine alignment Optec Libra….
Thanks for checking out the video Rafa. At this stage the scopes are not aligned - the main reason for this setup was so that I could easily switch between my Meade and my SkyWatcher without having to take scopes off and on. But I also hope to image the same target at the same time with both scopes but at the moment, with these two quite different focal lengths, I'm not too worried about being perfectly aligned. It would be a different story with two scopes the same if trying to double the imaging time on the one target - then alignment would be important. At this stage I have only found a few devices - the Optec Libra you mentioned and the JTD Dual Rig Telescope Alignment Saddle but those will only take up to 25lbs (11.3kg). My SkyWatcher setup is 14.2kg and the Mead is 18.4 kg which is too heavy. Optec do make the Big Bubba Alt-Azimuth Adjusting Base which is designed for heavy telescopes but isn't exactly cheap unfortunately.
@@LogansAstro Optec did build one for me Libra reinforced for my TOA150. Ultimately, I decided to just build another pier and get another mount for it. Just basically threw money at it to solve it. I may got back to it eventually. The point is, they now have one reinforced, you may want to try.
@@LogansAstro yes it is! Sold it and now I’m getting ready for the ROR. In fact I was just mullin the wall height. I think I’m going for the short walls to avoid HOA issues; 4.5 ft vs 6 ft. So I’ll be parking with weight parallel to ground…
@@tonycooper0 haha you read my mind 😉. There is always room for one more. If I do decide to move these two closer together, I am going to have to overcome the fact that the two saddles will hit the knobs on the iOptron saddle so for now, they will have to look like and arguing couple 😂.
Astrophotographers, we are such gadget geeks. Great video, impressive setup, clear sky’s.
Haha I cannot disagree with you there 😂. Cheers. Clear skies.
lol, the perfect practical application of why you buy more mount than you think you need. nice setup mate, well done
Thanks very much. Haha yes you never know what the future might hold.... or how the astro obsession will take over 😆.
I was running a side by side setup using a CEM60 at very close to a 60lb payload. The new CEM120 is on the pier with just the Esprit 120 at the moment. I had to use the HC network reset to get the LAN connection working but no startup issues otherwise. The forecast clear skies were cloudy but everything seems to work. I was a bit surprised at the whine when the mount slews to target, much louder than the CEM60. Thanks for your videos on setting up the mount.
Thanks, glad the hear the video was helpful. Yes the CEM120 does make a bit more noise compared to the CEM60 and seems even louder in the dead of night and everyone is sleeping :). CEM120 is a great mount so I'm sure you will be pleased with it. Clear skies.
Splendid planning, excellent work! Clear skies!
Thanks, fingers crossed it all works. Clear skies
This is so cool Logan! If you don’t get clear skies you can always shoot jets out of the sky for fun 😁
haha thanks Joe. I'd rather shoot clouds out of the sky at present 🚀🚀☁⛈🌦😁
Now this is quite a rig! Beautiful!
Thanks very much. Now the real challenge is to get it working as planned 😀
Hey Logan - This is looking super cool. Even the ability to just leave both on and pick which one you want to use is great. I must admit when you were balancing I found myself nervous for some strange reason 🤣. I also appreciated the double cap 🧢🧢 approach, you should consider a four stack for full coverage lol. Look forward to the follow up video. :)
Thanks Ollie. Yep double cap means double projection, particularly when follicularly challenged like myself. Trust me I was nervous when I did the balancing too - kept checking those clamps were super tight.
Quite a beast you have living in your Obs now. Looking forward to seeing your results :)
Thanks James. It's still a bit frightening to see it slew around, seeking out it's target. Now I just have to work out the software changes to make it all work as planned.
Can't wait to see how this works out with an image looking forward to seeing what you come out with
Thanks Nik. Hopefully it all works - initial test runs look promising but it seems I have caused at least a couple of weeks of clouds doing this. 😂
Maybe trim your dew shield a touch to fit it all in. Can't wait to see more on this rig, looking at something similar so any learnings & tips will be great.
Thanks Andy. I actually do have a dew shield that I trimmed a while back to try and help with wind but I think I might have trimmed it a little too much as I still get dew forming on the corrector plate when pointing straight up, even though the dew shield does have a heat strip in it. But I might look at trying that again only this time not getting too enthusiastic on the trimming 😅. There isn't a lot out there on UA-cam about setting up such a dual rig (I'm very much a visual leaner I've realised) so I'm hoping that my video(s) will be useful for others such as yourself thinking of going down a similar path - if nothing else to see what mistakes I make and avoid them 😂.
Awesome Logan, Extreme Astrophotography at its finest!! Can't wait to see how this all works out!
Thanks Jason. Lets hope it does work out 😬🤞.
Hey Logan, that’s a SERIOUS Rig you’ve put together there mate!! Awesome, not jealous at all 🤥 I hope you can figure it all out and I look forward to part 2 to see the outcome 😀 Best wishes and Clear skies
Thanks Simon. Assembly was (disturbingly 🤔) more straight forward than I thought it would be. Getting the software to work correctly is a different story, mostly because now I have to learn the advanced sequencer in NINA. Clear skies.
Hey Logan great video. Aa a result i picked up this same Primeluce dual saddle for my rig but noticed you cant really move the saddles closer in to dec axis because the saddle clamps then hit the dovetail. Seems a bit odd they would add all the holes but dont allow the silver knobs to clear so you could move them inwards more. I guess you have to use washers? Thanks
Thanks. Yes it was a problem I came across when I wanted to move them closer together so I've left mine far apart as a result. In retrospect it might have been better if the primalucelab plates were a bit thicker to get a bit of height above the knobs - or use two dovetail plates bolted together to get more height but that's more cost unfortunately. Using washers might introduce some flex in the dovetails (possibly) as they have such a small surface area.
That looks very impressive mate, I've watched quite a few of Steve's videos with his RASA twins & that system seems to be holding everything rock solid.
Look forward to seeing the next installment, clear skies!!
Thanks. I've been getting a few tips from Steve since he has that setup working well.
WoW! What a setup, great video mate, looking forward to more on this setup
Thanks very much. Lots to learn with the software changes I am going to have to make to get these two running together. Up until now I have been using the simple sequencer in NINA but have now been forced to learn the advanced sequencer so I can use the synchronised dither plugin.
Great video Logan
Thanks Craig
Love the setup Logan, alot of planning has gone into these rigs. Great to have these options available. With my setup I’m going to get the new ioptron harmonic drive and set up independently on the new deck but I’ll be in a set up tear down scenario again for that one 😢
Oooh nice - the harmonic drive. Hmmmmm, now you've got me thinking.....maybe I can squeeze one of those into the observatory also 🤔😃.
@@LogansAstro yes no counterweight required … I’d reckon you would get your espire going ok on that! They say even an edge 8HD. Not sure about that but I like the portability of it.
This is superb Logan! - I've been considering a SBS setup someday like this so I watched along eagerly! Really useful information mate, thank you for making this! :-)
Thanks Luke. Yep it's a whole new learning curve for me. I have had a couple of very short windows to test out the synchronised dithering and it seems to work but I now need to spend a bit of time making sure I have all the settings working correctly in the NINA's advanced sequencer so that everything runs smoothly (well as smoothly as possible). Imaging with the two scopes at the same time will probably be something I'll do occasionally - this setup was largely to allow me to easily switch between my scopes for imaging without having take one off and swap it over with the other etc. Hopefully I can get an informative Part 2 video out once I've had a descent go at imaging with this setup.
Logan goes full Beast mode. Lol
haha, once I learn the software setup for this rig🤔. Thanks for checking out the video Chris.
Very cool Logan! What a Crazy Setup. I wonder if you could use it to image Two Targets all at once. Looking forward to the Next Part!
Thanks Avanteesh. Yep it is a bit crazy - looks more crazy when slewing around in the observatory😱. Unfortunately no, you can't do two targets at once but you can do two different perspectives on a the same target, one wider field and then other closer in on an area of that same target.
all i can say is just wow 👊👍
Thanks Frack. That's exactly what I'll be saying if it all actually works together 🤣
Another excellent video. Thanks. Any thoughts on OTA spacing along the crossbar? Wider spacing will slightly increase the DEC's rotational Moment. [MxD] Which might affect slewing. Depending on the speed, acceleration and braking.
Thanks. Yes I would recommend trying to keep the OTA's as close as possible for the reasons you mention and for making it easier getting both OTA's aligned on a target. Unfortunately, the shallowness of the cross bar along with the position of the knobs on the saddle meant I had to have them quite far apart. CS
Nice work so far ! looking forward to your experience imaging with both scopes simultaneous. I have similar gear, a Celestron EHD9.25 and Esprit 120 on a 10µ GM2000. I just haven't tried imaging with both at the same time, as I thought it would be beter with a more matched imaging scale. But I get your take on it having one scope for the bigger picture while the other focuses on a detailed part. Good luck!
Wow you have a nice setup there. Probably most of the time I will end up doing the same as you and image separately with the scopes at different times but sometimes doing a combined image would work also. Still working out the kinks in the setup but so far have managed to get the synchronised dithering working on a couple of short test runs.
Interesting that the Primaluce Labs plate fits in the cem120. I have the EC version and having a bit of a nightmare getting hold of standard 'Losmandy' plates to fit. I keep getting referred back to the Celstron CGE plates which are clearly out of stock pretty much everywhere. Nice to know, will have a look at their offerings now. Cool rig, nice simple video. Subscribed.
Thanks very much for checking out the video and for the sub 👍. The Primalucelab Losamandy plate fits nicely and is fine for a normal single scope setup. The only issue I had, as you probably saw from the video, is that as the plate isn't particularly thick and the knobs on the CEM120 saddle got in the way of my two saddles. As a result I can't really move the scopes any closer together because of that.
Very impressive set up Logan. Not jealous at all! Interested to see if your guiding changes going with two scopes mounted.
Thanks Simon. I have quite a lot to learn running this setup. I think I will often be running these separately rather than at the same time. I got tired of swapping over these two telescopes every time I wanted to go for a small target like a galaxy etc with the Meade. Running the Meade outside the observatory was always a bit of a challenge as we get plenty of breeze/wind here and it doesn't take much to move the SCT around, especially with the dew shield on. Part II will be the software side and first light imaging with both scopes at the same time and using synchronised dithering.
@@LogansAstro As always, I’ll be looking forward to your videos. Love your work Logan
Looking great Logan. very impressive set up. just need those clear skies now. One question that I did thinkof is did you check your 3rd axis balance? With that heavy load it could be a big factor when you come to guiding and imaging with it.
Thanks Glenn. Yes very good point about the third axis and no it's not something I have checked yet. Although I have had a couple of short test runs and the guiding is showing an rms error of between 0.35 and 0.5 but I will definitely check the third axis.
@@LogansAstro Great numbers mate and well under image scale so all good. looking forward to what you can do with this.
Nice setup, you'll have fun with that. The only issue I can foresee is if you image with both setups, then you wont be able to dither between images.
Thanks. NINA does have a plugin called Synchronised Dithering which I will talk about in my follow up video. Effectively, the rig that is controlling the guidescope will wait for the other rig to finish it's exposure and then do a dither.
@@LogansAstro thats cool!
I havent used NINA much, so you can control the two camera's at the same time?
@@adrianphotovisions2308 Yes, you just run two instances of NINA and in the advanced sequencer, make sure both sequences have synchronised dithering setup and they should talk to each other.
Awesome
Pls, How did You fine Align both scopes, or
1 of them, so you would have the Same FOV?
I tried doing two TOAs 150, but I could not find a plate that could withstand the weight for fine alignment Optec Libra….
Thanks for checking out the video Rafa. At this stage the scopes are not aligned - the main reason for this setup was so that I could easily switch between my Meade and my SkyWatcher without having to take scopes off and on. But I also hope to image the same target at the same time with both scopes but at the moment, with these two quite different focal lengths, I'm not too worried about being perfectly aligned. It would be a different story with two scopes the same if trying to double the imaging time on the one target - then alignment would be important. At this stage I have only found a few devices - the Optec Libra you mentioned and the JTD Dual Rig Telescope Alignment Saddle but those will only take up to 25lbs (11.3kg). My SkyWatcher setup is 14.2kg and the Mead is 18.4 kg which is too heavy. Optec do make the Big Bubba Alt-Azimuth Adjusting Base which is designed for heavy telescopes but isn't exactly cheap unfortunately.
@@LogansAstro Optec did build one for me Libra reinforced for my TOA150.
Ultimately, I decided to just build another pier and get another mount for it. Just basically threw money at it to solve it.
I may got back to it eventually.
The point is, they now have one reinforced, you may want to try.
@@Rafastro Fantastic, thanks for letting me know that. Will definitely look into the reinforced version.
@@Rafastro I have just seen what you describe for sale on Astromart. Is that you?
@@LogansAstro yes it is! Sold it and now I’m getting ready for the ROR.
In fact I was just mullin the wall height. I think I’m going for the short walls to avoid HOA issues; 4.5 ft vs 6 ft. So I’ll be parking with weight parallel to ground…
Why are the two scopes so far apart? My intuitive feeling is that the closer the better - less moment of inertia for your dec motor
Yep you are probably right. I may end up moving them a bit closer together once I see how everything runs. It's all a bit of a learning curve 🙂
@@LogansAstro Moving them closer together is the lazy way out. A real astrophotographer would put a third telescope in between the two.🤪
@@tonycooper0 haha you read my mind 😉. There is always room for one more. If I do decide to move these two closer together, I am going to have to overcome the fact that the two saddles will hit the knobs on the iOptron saddle so for now, they will have to look like and arguing couple 😂.
I know why you only have clouds lately... 🤣
haha yes true. 🤣
Just out of curiosity, which models numbers did you use regarding the PrimaLuceLab plates?
www.primalucelab.com/side-by-side-plates/side-by-side-losmandy-plate-350mm-plus-large-dovetail-clamps.html