Weber Workshops Moonraker Review | THE BEST WDT TOOL MONEY CAN BUY
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- Опубліковано 24 чер 2024
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When Weber Workshops dropped the Moonraker, I knew this could overhaul many individuals and cafes' WDT espresso workflow. In this video, we discuss all the great things about this product, along with some big downsides, and we even break out the refractometer and test how extraction and taste change depending on how we use this boutique WDT tool.
00:00:00 Intro
00:00:15 WDT Explained?
00:00:50 Why WDT Sucks in Cafe Environments
00:02:01 Overview of Testing
00:02:35 Moonraker Test and Features
00:04:00 Extraction Tests: 0, 5 & 10 Turns
00:05:25 Test Results: Moonraker Works!
00:06:03 Moonraker Cons: Bendy Needles
00:07:20 Moonraker Cons: Price
00:07:53 Final Thoughts & Would I Recommend?
00:08:40 Outro
Link to the Moonraker: weberworkshops.com/products/m...
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Been a couple weeks, so I wanted to give an update:
The Moonrakers are behind the bar at both Valor locations. Espresso is tasting fantastic, channeled shots are down overall, so those are the pros. As expected, though, the needles are mega bent. Also, one of the magnetic pieces that holds the needles in place fell out on one of the Moonrakers and has disappeared. So just totally missing a needle on one until Weber starts selling replacement parts. That is as much of a bummer as the needles bending, if not more.
I have the Barista Hustle Auto Comb on pre-order and will be posting a comparison video and review when it arrives - obviously I'll have to get it in my hands first, but I'm pretty optimistic that it will address the downsides of the Moonraker and likely replace it behind our bars.
Any questions, feel free to ask me below or send me a DM on my Instagram - @rileywestbrook
Have you received your autocomb yet? I just got mine today.
I like everything about it, except the pins are not on individual gears like the moonrake is. So they make circles just like the ones you find in the cap style. :-( exactly what the moon rake was designed to avoid.
I need the moon rake in the autocomb body!
Edit: I found your autocomb review, so disregard!
Just as an FYI there is a 3D printed version of this called Umikot. It works the same and costs a fraction to make. I’ve made 4 already and it costs literally dollars
I am printing my first one, and I am amazed on the quality of the gear system.
@@guiwood I don’t have a 3D printer. How much would you estimate a company would charge to print that amount for me?
@@Theincrediblespudcheck etsy, parts that size between $20-$60 but you might pay more bc of the tolerance needed and the low volume. However there are lots of 3D printing services where you can just upload the model they'll quote you, print it and ship it. I believe thimgiverse has this feature pr it might be shapeways
3d printing can unfortunately not match the quality, detail or material of the moonraker.
It’s an interesting experiment nevertheless.
@@gro967nobody is suggesting that it's overpriced (although the scraping/feel of the base version isn't great). Just that this tools unique functionality isn't unique.
Tbh a resin 3D print would probably feel better than the base version
I really enjoy your review style. It is EXACTLY the type of information I am looking for, especially since you give the perspective of using the tool in a cafe environment, which I think is lacking in the youtube coffee space. Thank you!
You're amazing! This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you so much for putting in the time for this detailed video!
I stuck a handful of needles in a wine cork, cost me two bucks, haven’t had a channeled shot since
Production is insane brother! Much respect from Vegas! The setup is crazy too. Subscribed!
The kind words mean so much, thanks for watching!!
Perfect video!
Don't feel like I need to see any other review for this. You got all the important points with data, taste, different turns.. true video for the sickos out there thinking of buying this!
Thanks for the love, glad you found it helpful - sickos is a hilarious and too true way to put it 😂
You deserve a lot more subs, keep at it man, great overview
Thanks for the kind words!!
I think what makes sense to me is redesigning this by adding a magnetic top with a stand so the needles won't get bent/damaged on the holder! 🤷♂️ Great review! New subscriber here!😊
Great video man! ☕️🤘
this channel is gonna blow up! Honored to be in the first 500 subs!
Thanks so much for the kind words!
thanks for the review! been eyeing this up, had an opportunity to buy a 2nd hand standard version, but lost out... :C
Dang! Saw the Barista Hustle Auto Comb just hit the market as well (preorder), might be worth a look🤔
I like your testing methodology, 10 turns I think is ideal for the Weber Moonraker and similar (3d printed) ones. I had the same problem with bending the needles on my 3d Printed version, it still seems to work nicely despite that!
The AutoComb doesn't have the spiralgraphic (gear mechanism thing) design but seems like it does a good job with distribution and it does it in like 1 second! and Needles seem more Protected from being bent, it has its own retractable stand built in basically, so it seems more café oriented for those reasons!
Agreed! Thanks for watching :)
Great video! Quality and editing are on point!
When you say "lab" is that just an extra room in one of the cafes or a separate office?
This is our lab space in our roasting headquarters, essentially a simulation coffee shop with extra manual brew methods, cupping table, etc.
I was one of the first 20 people to order the moonraker and also got it as one of the first.
It's been great and been using it for all my shots. Not had a channeled shot since, but I always go for the ten turns. If your unit is properly lubricated you can use a finger on the upper glass to turn the raker 10 times and keep most of the volatile compounds for extraction. (Some people have reported iffy QC so YMMV)
BTW if you like faster shots and are already looking at sworksdesign, then maybe the billet basket might also be a good one for you, it upped my EY by 2% on like-for-like shot parameters. The flat lip doesn't work 100% great with the raker so better to use the autocomb
This is a excellent video especially considering you have less than 500 subs!
I'd really like to see you do a blind taste test trying to determine which shot is using WDT vs just the standard traditional puck prep.
Good idea! Might post one on my Instagram in the next week or two
I appreciate you bringing up something as basic as the wear and tear and cost of needles. That wasn't something I factored into the already substantial price.
The needles have always been a problem in all the wdt tools I had. Could you do a video review of the Autocomb (Barista Hustle)?
I’ve got in on preorder and certainly will when it arrives :)
We use the BH Comb in the shop I work in. Night and day difference. This would certainly increase our speed, but I am wary on the longevity of the needles.
Auto Comb is just around the corner, might be right for you!
Very informative. Thanks. I just find the theatricals a bit distracting.
For Cafe's I think the workflow and durability of the Barista Hustle AutoComb seems better. Also a better value, and can adjust the depth of the needles quick and easy for different portafilter or basket depths. Not having adjustable depth is a pretty big design flaw on the Moonraker, even cheap 3d Printed versions that Weber based their design on HAS ADJUSTABLE Depth!
I think I'm probably on the same page as you here, will know for sure when my Auto Comb arrives and I get a video posted. Thanks for watching!
Big thanks to everyone who has stumbled upon this video! More reviews and tutorials coming soon, so hit SUBSCRIBE and stay in touch!
The biggest issue for a cafe i can see is the lack of finger hole do you can just move your whole hand around in a circle instead of the RSI inducing grip and twist 15+ times for 5 revolutions. The new BH tool looks to actually be designed for cafe use.
Totally agreed, I preordered the BH Auto Comb and will certainly get a video posted when I receive it (likely August or September).
I see 2 disadvantages in this tool against a normal WDT tool:
It has a fixed diameter that need to match the filter.
The needle length cannot be adjusted for different filter size. If you switch between double and single shots
So it's more for a café with always same routine.
Subscriber Lucky Number 3.
Let’s go.
Yoooooo thanks so much!
@@rileywestbrook
Your videos are seriously impressive and you’ve better presentation than a lot of established “coffee professionals” on a UA-cam. (And I say that generously because there are some that I am baffled are as popular as they are, but let’s keep this positive.)
What’s in the pipeline next?
I appreciate the kind words a ton! Got a video on my opinion of Cometeer, the new Fellow Tally Pro, and some education stuff coming up!
@@rileywestbrook
Sounds good.
Looking forward to it.
Should compare this and the auto comb when it comes out!
Got it preordered, keep an eye out!
For that kind of money, it should have a small motor driven by a button battery that makes 10 turns and then stops to make it a hands-free device. That would add efficiency and increase production in a cafe environment.
Nice video, nice breakdown 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
I wonder what the needle diameter is, 0.3mm most likely? replaceable with 0.35 or 0.4 for a li'l more sturdiness?!?
I also wonder who actually came up with the planetary geared WDT tool. I saw it on Etsy and Thingiverse way before Weber released the Moonraker 🤷🏻♂ but either way you can buy a 3D printed one for less than $50 which is pretty much a no brainer to me.
Thanks for watching! Yeah, $50 is certainly more palatable.
Good to finally see it in actual use with a vst basket and not a unifilter or just a clip of holding it up and spinning the needles around. But no naked portafilter shot :(
Hah, I’ll throw a bottomless in next time, honestly more of a spouted fan for reasons I may discuss later but this is good feedback!
@@rileywestbrook Totally understandable. It's just a neat visual way to see how it's extracting and how the pour forms. Always chacing that rat tail :D
I’ll be subscriber #25
Thanks a ton!
Maybe they need thicker needles. I’ve been using Duomo the Eight for three years and have seen it used by several top baristas in cafe and competition settings. It doesn’t do that beautiful gear thing the Weber does but it works well. Love the Weber design though.
I agree, function over form in most cases. Thanks for watching!
Im working on an identical working thin 3d printable version of this right now. its good to see that the needle thing is an issue cuz I can make so that they are exchangeable on my design. the biggest issue with 3 print is the tolerances but I think its not impossible to get it right and then publish the files online
Nice, yeah interchangeable needles seems like a good move. Not sure if it's possible, but maybe take a look at the Barista Hustle Auto Comb design and see if there's any inspo to gain there? Seems like the needles wouldn't have as much of a bending problem because of the retractable top piece
@@rileywestbrook yeah the retractable thing is really cool. with 3d print im not sure it would work because there are the thin layers so the surfaces are not so smooth to slide and be held tight by orings at the same time. over time the friction would destroy orings super fast and it would never be as smooth.ill think about it. thank you :)
I’m up for buying a 3D printed prototype to test once you have it
@@petercaddy not sure if id be selling but it very much depends on how long the print times are I will consider it. Ill write here if i do. I think the price would be about 40 Euros depending on print time and material costs
@@Bbarm97would you be publishing the stl files? I’d love to try it if it works out!
Well this didn't age very well after Lance Hedrick came out with the latest distribution method called the Blind shaker and this is the way to go now!
The extraction percentage is literally at the 0.5% level, a 2% increase maybe. So... WORTH IT.
I think in cafe setting the moonraker makes sense cost wise. If it ups the coffee taste above the rest of the competition, will do wonders for return customers. for personal use it is an absurd price, but for some it's still worth it. not me.
Agreed! Thanks for watching
The y-axis on your graph at 5:33 is bordering on trickery. You're making the 2% relative jump from 0 turns to 10 turns seem like a much bigger deal than it is.
Solid feedback, thanks for watching
What happens when someone combines a grinder with an motor-driven spirograph WDT? 10 turns in 3 seconds, for example?
Combining a great grinder, WDT and an internal puqpress would be nuts!
I 3D printed my own EG-1 for less than $300 included electronics and 83mm Mazzer Major burrs. I bet I can make the Weber Moonraker for almost nothing, but ofc with better needles.
Can you also test the AutoComb from barista hustle and compare the two?
nvm i already see you got it on preorder lol. looking forward to the review on that. given its cheaper, faster (from videos so far), and the variability of "combing" is more random than the moonraker, it kinda makes the WW pointless
Thanks for watching! Yeah, looking forward to getting it in my hands and will have the video posted shortly after.
I imagine, one day, someone will release an electric equivalent - ideal for cafés; similar to a PuqPress vs manual tamping.
True, could be cool!
Acupuncture needles are really cheap. 10$ (CAD dollars) for 100 replacement needles (0.3mm x 40mm).
what is wrong with my cork wdt ?
Just curious, what burrs are you using in the EK?
The newer stock EK burrs, really enjoy them personally!
@@rileywestbrook nice! I have the Stock EK burrs in my Ultra Grinder and love them as well. I use the Pre-2015 MK regrinds in my EK. Really like those as well. Great video btw!!
Seems like the bent needles are still a problem
You can even see it in the thumbnail
Still use a "oldschool" accupuncture needles with a handle type wdt
Thinking about the 3D printed ones that a few ppl showed on yt
nah, 3d printed one takes a while. Just keep doing the 'old school' WDT handle with 3-7 needles in it. Takes me like 10-15 seconds versus about 40-50 seconds to do 8 spins on the 3D printed Moonraker replica. And when you're spinning the 3D printed one, it's really not smooth at all and there's always the risk of bits and pieces falling as the gears are grinding against one another when you turn.
@tacosyk i have a few friends with 3d printers and lots of experience, so it wouldn't be too difficult for me
But 40-50sec for the 8 spins? Thats an awful long time
Yeah the little plastic shavings are a concern IMO. They say that the clearances and pressures between cogs and spindles are good enough that no material gets rubbed off
But if thats the truth, every transmission ever wouldn't need fluid or a flui change
@@someguy9520 Yeah maybe the clearance is good enough, but it just makes a sound (All 3 that I printed do this) which makes it sound like something pieces could fall off. Maybe you could make a screen or something thats in the middle of the needle so you're able to turn the device with minimum risk if some do shave off.
Also, didn't realize how much of an over-exaggeration the time I gave was. I just did a 'mock' run with no grounds, took me 20 seconds to do 8 full rotations.
Can you control depth of needles?
No, but they send different length needles in the box
Glaring issues with your methodology: (1) Not enough of a sample size for each group and (2) because of the first issue, you can't calculate if the difference in extraction is significantly difference.
Searching for something like "Nozzle Cleaning Needles 0.4mm" you get the same needles (answers to my previous comment keep disappearing)
That price 😮
Those needles look like the bottom part of a guitar string
50 gram shot in 22 seconds; is that to highlight more of the acidic, floral notes?
The EK43's burr geometry creates an interesting distribution of fines, leading to shot times being shorter on the EK and, oftentimes, preference by many to go towards longer yields. Matt Perger / Barista Hustle have written a decent bit on this that can be found by Googling something along the lines of "EK43 Barista Hustle"
@@rileywestbrook Ah, so it's because of the grinder. Thanks! Just wanted to make sure I'm not missing something.
hi the autocomb from barista hustle sees like more strong build and is cheaper
True! I have one preordered and will post a video when it arrives :)
20 in 50 out in 22 seconds seems fast-is that a turbo shot?
I wouldn’t call it a turbo shot, but it is certainly in the range that the EK43 specifically likes. If I was pulling this coffee on an E80 or the Mythos, I’d dial it any much differently, but I prefer shorter shot times and larger ratios with the EK
@@rileywestbrook Awesome! Still learning and hadn't heard of those numbers before. Thanks for elaborating!!
Wow. Now I just feel old. I was still of the impression that 20g in 30g out in 30 secs was the ultimate goal/ratio….
@@adamkohalmi7180I think the ultimate goal is something that tastes amazing!😊
@@adamkohalmi7180You are correct. But the new wave coffee proponents have been trying to break the traditional Italian espress ratios for some time now, som with more some with less cuvées.
Are you using these on bar at Valor now?
Yes, as of last week :)
I feel like preinfusion would be a better improvement than wdt
Thanks for watching :) I agree that both are improvements, but again in terms of viability in a cafe environment, longer pre-infusions can drastically slow ticket times.
this looks cool until i saw the price on the website... i love espresso, but definitely does not justify having one at home..
Cool, but I think I will wait for the knockoff at 1/2 to 1/4 of the price.
"I don't see any way around that" Ever though on just turning it over and not using the holder?
Not really a practical solution though, especially in a cafe. It’s supposed to go in the base, therefore it’s a design flaw imo
This is not going to improve your best shot a whole lot (unless you struggle with wdt but then you probably want this anyway) this improves your worst shot of espresso, everybody gets tired, everybody makes mistakes and this makes it so much easier to make sure you still have a great shot when your games a little off or your in a rush
This is the same reason I recommend a puqpress or force tamper
the stand should in no way bend the needles otherwise it's a clear design flaw, especially at that price.
Those needles with spring and lttle ring at the base are the usual 3D printer cleaning needles. I bought them separately for my DIY WDT. Nothing so special from Weber on that regard...
Thanks! Care to drop a link to some that would work?
Why just 22 seconds? I thought 30 was the target?
Shot time varies greatly depending on lots of parameters, including roast level, grinders/burr geometry and more. The grinder I’m using tends to pull its best shots in shorter times.
It got nothing on the AutoComb
Preordered and will review when it arrives :)
VST Alao with all that
How can you mees anything up. We don't
Need no VST.
Barista Hustle Auto Comb is the right Tool for you. This peace is just an expensive toy for home baristas.
How do you only have 1 subscriber? I’ll be your second :)
Thanks a ton! Just getting this channel going so the support means the world!
Sounds like you need an Autocomb
Got one on preorder 🤘
I personally don’t think wdt belongs in a cafe setting using commercial grinders , but if you are going to do it the barista hustle tool seems like a better option. ua-cam.com/video/ZvzjwrRnZoA/v-deo.html
I’ve got it on preorder and will review when it comes in. Genuinely curious, why do you feel commercial grinders and WDT aren’t a fit?
Mate..if you think spinning this for a few more turns makes a difference I want what you've been smoking...
@andrewpiper2880 He used a refractometer and tasted the coffee.
Maybe it is time to put away my trusty paperclip...
I think my AutoComb is coming tomorrow... but I sold my 58mm machine :'(
I’ll buy that Autocomb off ya if you no longer need it
@@rileywestbrook I'm thinking I might find a decent 58mm machine soon, I also have a Weber Buck portafilter and basket coming lol. I doubt the Meticulous machine is going to arrive early, but that's coming eventually. I'm enjoying pour overs and the La Pavoni Europiccola as well for now.
I'm in Canada, If I did sell the Autocomb it would be for a slight profit ;)
Guest ? Try Customers trying to be cute Guest it's free
You use that in a coffee shop. Line of CUSTOMER S. Can get long. Try a tooth pick
Don't push crap of course probably won't
Say price of it. We will see. Guest lol
This comment lol. Who hurt you?
Uh…Ya…It gets more than a little absurd. $275 US?!? You might as well buy yourself a bit of coke and have a sniff or two. It’ll likely be more bang for your buck. 😂 Ya. That’s right. Coka Cola. People are sniffing the stuff with a straw now. Kids these days!!!!
Totally waste of money
A tool that will buy the total fashion victim who doesn't really know how to make an espresso
Least scientific test I have seen for an overpriced tool.
Sick comment
Laughable.
other channels show the pins break --- pos
Everyday, a new way to totally waste money.
Weber workshop how to burn money