Hey! Great video and I’m going to watch part 2 next! Not sure if someone mentioned it, but from one of Lance’s now various videos on the blind shaker, he did mention his belief that the mound collected in the middle is actually part of what lead to higher EYs, stating that it might be because it helps the counteract the “donut extractions” that’s typically happen. Hope this helps!
I spent about a month doing some accurate testing of shaking, it took that long to figure out the mode of action, but it does work to boost EY in some cases, specifically if you're on the clogged side of the grind size to EY curve (did a vid on it). It works by basically homogenizing the critical bottom layer that contacts the basket (as grinders can produce grind size inconsistencies during start up). It's the size distribution of the grind particles in this layer that impacts evenness of flow, in fact it governs flow I'd say... Lance, phrased he's video unfortunately, as he pitted shaking "VS" WDT whereas I found both are somewhat important for light roasts and the newer precision baskets. The other thing i found was that you can just shake in the dosing basket with a cover, pour into the espresso basket, then some WDT and that produced EY's as good as the blind shaker (non-weber) with WDT, i.e., it's really the shaking process that matters, not the blind shaker per say, in my opinion... have fun testing, it's a fascinating subject :)
Interesting, I'll check the video out. How did you measure the grind distribution by layer? I actually already tested using a dosing cup for shaking, and came to the conclusion that it didn't increase extraction yield vs just WDT (neither did the knockoff blind shaker). In every test I've ran so far, there's no statistical difference and plain WDT has higher yield in raw data. However, it could be grind dependent, and my grind settings are in a region where it doesn't matter.
@@TechDregs No, shaking won't make a difference unless you're near the fine grind size limit. See if you grind really fine, you'll start to see dark spots on the puck, indicating that some sections of the puck don't have proper flow. If your grind size is near this limit, shaking will distribute the fines among the boulders and prevent the air-locking issues to some degree (you'll notice less dark spots). You'll also see a small increase in extraction yield (EY) in a shaken vs. unshaken comparison, but the shaken EYs will never go above the peak in the EY curve. Shaking just recovers some EY if your grind is too fine.
For years, I’ve been using a small, glass cup for shaking. I recently bought a Weber shaker, thinking that it might improve workflow or distribution. It made both worse. My method is to toss like sautéing in a pan, definitely not to violently shake. We want to homogenize, and not to cause clumps. Next, I pour it into the portafilter with a magnetic funnel. I shake to flatten it, do a surface level rake with a WDT tool, one firm tap on the counter, and tamp. So, why is the shaker worse? First, it has three pieces to handle, and they all get dirty. Next, why doesn’t the body have magnets? I can’t shake the portafilter with the shaker on top. So now I need the funnel too. Also, because I can’t see inside the shaker, I can’t get the grounds roughly distributed before removing the lid. I could shake it side to side with the lid off, but the plug isn’t magnetic, so I risk it falling apart and making a mess. With my little glass bowl, a magnetic funnel, and just a little skill, I get a better, faster result. Who cares about the extraction of the Weber, when the workflow is so dumb. Had they added magnets and maybe a glass lid, it might have been another story.
I used to do WDT but found it lacking in consistency, possibly just operator error. I tried the knockoff shaker and found I still needed to use a funnel to stop coffee spilling and avoid burning my hand touching the hot portafilter. I still tap the sides to get the top flat. I use a side to side shake not just up and down, I also rotate 180 degrees in the middle to ensure all the coffee is mixing. I prefer the shaker but I tap the top with the wooden handle of the tamp before removing the shaker lid. I use a dry paper towel to clean the shaker and found coffee accumulation to be greatly reduced for the next two or three uses.
I'm not sure if they did any special coating. It just looks like they polished it more prior to anodizing. I still had quite a bit of retention with it.
Just speculating, but I really think roast level plays into it. I mostly use medium to dark roasts. These roast levels tend to express more surface oil, and I think that makes the grounds stickier than light roasts. Haven't tested that though. As for grind size, I think finer grinds tend to lend to more retention in general, as you just get smaller particles and surface tension and static have larger influence with those.
I haven't found a huge difference. There is going to be retention either way. What I have found to make a difference is grind size... coarser grinds have less retention (due to less fines, I think).
But they didn’t add magnets to secure it to the portafilter basket, so I can’t give it a shake without it falling apart. It’s a dumb device. I bought it, and I can’t believe what a bad workflow it delivers.
I can already give you the summary: no tamper is worth $200. Get a spring loaded tamper, and use a bathroom scale to test and make sure it's giving you >30lbs of force before it bottoms out on the basket. The spring mechanism will keep it repeatable for a given coffee/dose/grind. Just my opinion.
I think you should get a spiral WDT and call it a day. I have one and I think it tops blind shakers by far. I got a Gusucin brand on Amazon for $35. MHW3-Bomber has a nice one. I was surprised to see you try again after the first time. 😳
Might be helpful to see the context; this is the third video I've done on shaking. ua-cam.com/video/M0QuSNROy6M/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/5nQgo0BHWiQ/v-deo.html
@@gordanskunca9896 Krikey that's expensive. I found another similar "universal" one from Neouza but meh, I don't know how it will be like for 54mm. I just want something that is made for it, not a universal one.
Rip off Vs knock off 😂
Thanks for the video
The magent is for grinders that have a magnet on the base for the dosing cup to stay in place
Oh yess, the cozy rabbit hole of the espresso world...
I love these videos. So many people see products from influencers and don’t think much or do research and just run out and buy them
Hey! Great video and I’m going to watch part 2 next! Not sure if someone mentioned it, but from one of Lance’s now various videos on the blind shaker, he did mention his belief that the mound collected in the middle is actually part of what lead to higher EYs, stating that it might be because it helps the counteract the “donut extractions” that’s typically happen. Hope this helps!
I spent about a month doing some accurate testing of shaking, it took that long to figure out the mode of action, but it does work to boost EY in some cases, specifically if you're on the clogged side of the grind size to EY curve (did a vid on it). It works by basically homogenizing the critical bottom layer that contacts the basket (as grinders can produce grind size inconsistencies during start up). It's the size distribution of the grind particles in this layer that impacts evenness of flow, in fact it governs flow I'd say... Lance, phrased he's video unfortunately, as he pitted shaking "VS" WDT whereas I found both are somewhat important for light roasts and the newer precision baskets. The other thing i found was that you can just shake in the dosing basket with a cover, pour into the espresso basket, then some WDT and that produced EY's as good as the blind shaker (non-weber) with WDT, i.e., it's really the shaking process that matters, not the blind shaker per say, in my opinion... have fun testing, it's a fascinating subject :)
Interesting, I'll check the video out. How did you measure the grind distribution by layer? I actually already tested using a dosing cup for shaking, and came to the conclusion that it didn't increase extraction yield vs just WDT (neither did the knockoff blind shaker). In every test I've ran so far, there's no statistical difference and plain WDT has higher yield in raw data. However, it could be grind dependent, and my grind settings are in a region where it doesn't matter.
@@TechDregs No, shaking won't make a difference unless you're near the fine grind size limit. See if you grind really fine, you'll start to see dark spots on the puck, indicating that some sections of the puck don't have proper flow. If your grind size is near this limit, shaking will distribute the fines among the boulders and prevent the air-locking issues to some degree (you'll notice less dark spots). You'll also see a small increase in extraction yield (EY) in a shaken vs. unshaken comparison, but the shaken EYs will never go above the peak in the EY curve. Shaking just recovers some EY if your grind is too fine.
For years, I’ve been using a small, glass cup for shaking. I recently bought a Weber shaker, thinking that it might improve workflow or distribution. It made both worse.
My method is to toss like sautéing in a pan, definitely not to violently shake. We want to homogenize, and not to cause clumps. Next, I pour it into the portafilter with a magnetic funnel. I shake to flatten it, do a surface level rake with a WDT tool, one firm tap on the counter, and tamp.
So, why is the shaker worse? First, it has three pieces to handle, and they all get dirty. Next, why doesn’t the body have magnets? I can’t shake the portafilter with the shaker on top. So now I need the funnel too.
Also, because I can’t see inside the shaker, I can’t get the grounds roughly distributed before removing the lid. I could shake it side to side with the lid off, but the plug isn’t magnetic, so I risk it falling apart and making a mess.
With my little glass bowl, a magnetic funnel, and just a little skill, I get a better, faster result. Who cares about the extraction of the Weber, when the workflow is so dumb. Had they added magnets and maybe a glass lid, it might have been another story.
can you make a video with your original method?
So, the line between if using wdt is, you only use the wdt to smooth it out and get it close to even before tapping using the counter then tamp.
I used to do WDT but found it lacking in consistency, possibly just operator error. I tried the knockoff shaker and found I still needed to use a funnel to stop coffee spilling and avoid burning my hand touching the hot portafilter. I still tap the sides to get the top flat. I use a side to side shake not just up and down, I also rotate 180 degrees in the middle to ensure all the coffee is mixing.
I prefer the shaker but I tap the top with the wooden handle of the tamp before removing the shaker lid. I use a dry paper towel to clean the shaker and found coffee accumulation to be greatly reduced for the next two or three uses.
1. Magnet is for auto-centring on a grinder
2. Biggest difference is the coating that helps make coffee grounds stick to it less
I'm not sure if they did any special coating. It just looks like they polished it more prior to anodizing. I still had quite a bit of retention with it.
@@TechDregs Very interesting, I wonder if grind size or roast level impacts the retention on it. What roast level was this with?
Just speculating, but I really think roast level plays into it. I mostly use medium to dark roasts. These roast levels tend to express more surface oil, and I think that makes the grounds stickier than light roasts. Haven't tested that though. As for grind size, I think finer grinds tend to lend to more retention in general, as you just get smaller particles and surface tension and static have larger influence with those.
I read in a Reddit thread that the weber has more retention when you use water.
I haven't found a huge difference. There is going to be retention either way. What I have found to make a difference is grind size... coarser grinds have less retention (due to less fines, I think).
Can the knockoff be polished or waxed so it works as well?
I didn't find it to work any differently despite the slightly different finish.
The magnet is so that the shaker "locks" to Weber's eg-1 grinder.
Thanks! I knew it wasn't random, but just couldn't figure out why.
It also locks perfectly onto the Acaia Orbit grinder too.
But they didn’t add magnets to secure it to the portafilter basket, so I can’t give it a shake without it falling apart. It’s a dumb device. I bought it, and I can’t believe what a bad workflow it delivers.
Try to compare force tamper with mhw 3bomber constant tamper.
I can already give you the summary: no tamper is worth $200. Get a spring loaded tamper, and use a bathroom scale to test and make sure it's giving you >30lbs of force before it bottoms out on the basket. The spring mechanism will keep it repeatable for a given coffee/dose/grind. Just my opinion.
@@TechDregs I received my 3bomber constant tamper not too long ago and man this click is satisfying. The spring ain't good without clicking☝
I think you should get a spiral WDT and call it a day. I have one and I think it tops blind shakers by far. I got a Gusucin brand on Amazon for $35. MHW3-Bomber has a nice one. I was surprised to see you try again after the first time. 😳
I'm doing it for other people, not myself. I made my own WDT, and it works well.
MHW told me to RDT the blind shaker before use.
So what exactly is the shaker meant to do?
Might be helpful to see the context; this is the third video I've done on shaking.
ua-cam.com/video/M0QuSNROy6M/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/5nQgo0BHWiQ/v-deo.html
Man I can't seem to find one of those but for 54mm.
Craig Lyn espresso shaker funnel II
@@gordanskunca9896 Krikey that's expensive. I found another similar "universal" one from Neouza but meh, I don't know how it will be like for 54mm. I just want something that is made for it, not a universal one.
The magnet is for grinders like fellow ode
Luckily I found a much cheaper alternative to coffee: Ritalin
Probably cheaper, too.
Next time, dont spray it.
None of the tests were ran with water spray. It didn't make any difference.
Gyat