How to Roll Margit's Carian Sword Combo (and Double Dagger)
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2024
- Margit's hardest attack has 3 ways to dodge it that I use depending on my positioning and what mood I'm in. This video is dedicated to the gamer who asked me about this on my Margit Zwei video • Margit RL1+0 Zwei Only...
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DangitJM Margit video for no particular reason other than metadata: • In Defense of Margit, ...
Watch no roll challenge runners if you want to learn how to strafe attacks for more optimal punishes and stamina management: • Margit, the Fell Omen ...
Wheat showing you can also roll it to the right and is probably easier than going left for the slash variant: • Hard Attacks To Avoid ...
Other Margit videos:
• How to beat Margit, Th...
• [Elden Ring] Level 1 W...
• Margit, the Fell Omen ...
• Rock Blaster Only (vs ...
• Level 1 Wretch vs Marg...
• Margit, the Fell Omen ...
Yea I still can't find much in the way of people rolling through his sword combo cuz Idk how to filter just videos from Feb-July of 2022.
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:45 First Method
1:56 Second Method
3:45 Third Method
5:06 Bonus Tips
#eldenring #challengerun #hitless - Ігри
![[Hitless] Mohg, Lord of Blood RL1+0 Zwei Only - Elden Ring Challenge Run](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jswuSNtIjWo/mqdefault.jpg)
Well, fair enuff. I’ll eat my words. I knew I had bad reaction time and struggled to discern the tell from double dagger, but I thought this move was a forced disengage and punished you for being too close regardless. Great video.
No worries, everyone has been having trouble with this attack and it wasn't until I dived into making this video that I understood why sometimes I could roll left and sometimes only roll behind. I never realized the stab or slash opening made a difference in how he swings his body and where you have to dodge
I like doing stuff like this and challenge running because it forces me to really analyze and get to the heart of what's going on in the boss fight.
And honestly high refresh rate monitors are basically a performance enhancing drug, just ask any pkcs or cgk duelist in ds3.
just more proof that so many souls veterans barely cared about proper dodge direction and posotioning, the older games, especially the spammy bb, dont really incentivize thinking that way.
@@flamingmanure I’m not against caring about roll direction; I’m a hardcore MH player and those games care way more about it. Mohg is my favourite fight in the game. It’s just that this move has an overlapping tell and is already among the fastest attacks in the game on main bosses.
@@meathir4921 Ayy a fellow monster hunter player, it would be funny to see some of these "souls vets" attempt some of mh's hardest challenges I bet they'd just moan it was clunky
I'd actually already learned that dodging to his right is the more viable route, but I was still getting clipped a lot of the time. This video really helped me understand what I was doing wrong still. Thanks!
And I also love that positioning and direction of your rolls matters, both for dodging and creating damage opportunities, plus the fact ER incentivizes you to use your weapon's entire set of moves to get the best out of these fights. Plus, the builds in this can get really crazy with the ashes of war, skills, and the revamped and WAY more fun magic system.
Yea I didn't really spend time diving into doding to the right but apparently it's a viable option too
@@loopine Margit's right, not the player's. And yeah, I saw that short, too.
Since you seem to go out of your way to try to find jump dodges for every boss, I'd really like to watch you going over every attack you've found that is jumpeable. Or at least the most unintuitive ones.
So many, you just gotta try. In my challenge run I find my self unlcok strafing and doing the sprint dodge wayyy more than rolling at all. Maliketh phase 2 literally every attack can be evaded with a jump and some degree of positioning
The VG Matthew video is really funny to me. It cannot get any more ironic than FromSoft deliberately designing a beginning boss that requires directional rolling to teach a new player not to just carelessly spam the roll button, only for someone who carelessly spams the roll button to rant about the boss being unfair for hitting them.
It gets even more funny when you realise VG Matthew played through the game 4 whole times I think and still didn’t learn the first boss
@@RandomPerson-rt8zt Truuue, althougbI will say Margit is a beast of a combo boss and everytime I did a ng+ cycle I felt like I was learning a whole new boss since I would play a bit differently and this would cause him to do different things and bring out moves I had never even seen before. This just makes him a good boss imo, he has a lot of answers for different playstyles
I agree, Margit is a good boss, although I personally prefer Morgott because he is more fast pace and has a larger move set. I would say Margit is my favourite early game boss, whilst Morgott is my favourite Shard Bearer
something being dodgeable doesnt make it less of a bad design decision, i can dodge that over delayed attack but i still think it shouldn't be there and its a bad choice in general
This was super helpful! Thanks for the tips
Do you have a short showing how to dodge this attack around the right side? If so, link it and I'll add it in the description
@@loopine I will say looking back at it the way I rolled it was probably because I was already on his right side, but here you go. I just love posting false information.
ua-cam.com/users/shorts5BYfqYCGT_8
Awesome tips! Personally i'm more comfortable dodging backwards and (because the arena is basically a ramp) if i have the high ground i can use the extra height to jump over the fast dagger (because he only does one after this move instead of two) and punish. If i don't have the high ground i'll wait a second for him to start the recovery animation after the staff stab and rush him with a runing attack (works with colossal weapons as well).
That VG Matthew vid was something special indeed. When he said no matter how good you get at Margit you will always have to fight him passively thanks to his dice roll undodgeable attacks... i basically died. And the Maliketh section was arguably even worse. It's crazy to think that someone can believe they're capable of dissecting a From game (which are notoriously deep) without having to do any research or experimentation of their own what so ever💀
My achey breaky heart couldn't take watching him talk about Maliketh lol. And yea the arena is whach, I constantly have to be aware of the slope if I want to go for a jump attack over the tail swipe
In the intro I already learned something. I have beat this game 9 times but never knew you could jump Margit’s tail
What funny timing. I just recently did my own no hit Margit fight and settled on the roll back and go in for fast knife method.
But this video provides a lot of good information on the difference between the stab and slash version, which I never quite got despite dodging both.
I never even realized either until I was watching back the footage for the edit. I ended up going back and testing it more and figured it out
This was a great video!
I thought of some other attacks that would be interesting to see how you deal with them
1) gideon disc
2) deer phase 3 roll
3) fia champion jump attack
There’s maybe more as well that I can’t think of
1. Vid next week
2. Have to look into it but it might be one the most inconsistent in the entire game
3. Pray
Now THIS is what I call a tutorial. Thank you so much!
more people should learn how to fight a lot of bosses unlocked tbh
But what if I just want to roar and full charge into poise break? People actually learning boss patterns instead of face trading smh my head 🤦✋🤔
Based
Based and Colossal-pilled
Thanks for sharing. I've been replaying the game recently to have a build ready for the DLC, and from the few stuff I've done, it seems you can strafe way more attacks than I've thought. You can strafe the Elemer thrust, the crucible knight shield bash for instance, and even a random radagon combo finisher and his thrust he does after either the ground slam or the fast projectiles (I knew the last ones from co-op)
Yea I've been using the sprint jump and strafing way more than dodging I feel like lately
Great stuff. Would love to see some other small videos addressing other “problematic” attacks in the game.
On another note, happy to know I wasn’t the only person irked a bit by that VG Matthew video. His Sekiro commentary is pretty great, but I think his Elden Ring boss critique shares a lot of overlap with the problems in Anderson’s video on the game.
Yea I kinda like this format, might do it again
Margit is a way better “tutorial boss” than Gundyr. He doesn’t become a joke after fighting him once.
The double dagger kinda reminds me of Maliketh’s double dagger. It’s better to roll in the same direction as the attack if you only roll once.
Honestly Margit is one of the hardest boss in NG+ because if you change your style of play a little it's like having to learn a whole new boss because he's doing attacks you've never even seen before. He's a God tier tutorial boss that's well rounded at dealing with all kinds of players
@@loopine Maybe this is a hot take but, i prefer Margit over Slave Knight Gael, at least from a mechanical point of view i think he is more nuanced and engaging to fight.
@@corporialme yea Gael is cool but not a personal favorite of mine. It was p fun seeing alot of people show disdain for elden ring boss combo routes in my video and then say that they prefer ds3 bosses like Gael, when Gael himself is a combo route boss from ds3. Margit is just a much deeper and complex boss than most. People yap and overblown the delayed attacks shtick but honestly elden ring tell animations are much more subtle and natural and the hitboxes are also much cleaner
@@loopine Totally agree. For example with Margit and his 2h overhead slam, he always raises his foot of the ground just as he is about to slam the staff. Also the cool thing about the delayed attacks in ER is that, not only do they provide punish windows but opportunities to regen stamina during a combo without having to disengage from the fight as well. If you play ER very aggressively and use a lot of heavy attacks for posture breaks, delayed attacks become essential to make sure you always recover just enough stamina to continue to apply pressure on the boss.
Yup, i think the reason people never realized that about Gael and other bosses in DS3 and BB was because the difficulty of those games never really required them to learn about that. In DS3 you can mindlessly roll every attack and in BB a lot of people just hit traded with bosses thanks to the rally system. Face rolling in these games was a lot easier even without overleveling or having to use overpowered tools.
Margit is also a great tutorial boss because he's good at teaching you that ER is open world. Struggling? go get some materials and levels and come back. Or you can just git gud at the fight and beat him. Both feel satisfying imo and I love that.
I don’t know if this is considered cheesy but I always fight him mid distance and space that attack
Perfectly legit
the jump at 1:49 is N u t t y
The problem with the 1st solution is you CAN be too close to be able to roll out.
2 works but as you point out its a bit absurd. You can dodge into him and have to be positioned right alread. And if your timing is slightly offset even if you dodge the 1st swing you can be caught by the 2nd one before you can get your 2nd roll in.
3rd method like the 2nd is very situational and it can be hard to tell if youre in the clear.
I wish they would have slowed how fast the 2nd attack comes out. It would have felt a lot better. But I think this will be very helpful for a lot of people
Edit. Also nee to this channel. A cool video might be showcasing a bunch of attacks you can jump attack over across all the bosses and enemies in the game
nah you can roll out if you're touching him. also if you don't like the 2nd method you can roll right around him too but I still think its not as hard as you make it out to be. Also the 3rd method isn't even situational its just a playstyle preference as you will strafe most things he can do and the stuff that will hit you can be easily reacted. It actually makes sense because if you are walking into his aggro range the only thing you really have to worry about is this carian sword combo or double dagger and this completely negates it
Oh and you can dodge every attack in the game if you want, whether that be over it or away from it.
@@loopine I think what youre not taking into consideration is how you can offset the dodges. If you dodge too late even if you the first swipe you can still be caught recovering from the first dodge animation. Making this a very fickle method. Of course theyre possible. You can avoid Waterfowl Dance from point blank too. Its just absurd.
But anyway. To be clear my critique isnt of your methods so much as the attack itself. Its a very helpful video. Ive done a RL1 run so I had the wonderful opportunity to become very familiar with it 😂
@@austin0_bandit05 I mean if you mistime any dodge you get hit don't you? I dont find inconsistent at all. There's quite a few ER attacks that you have to dodge two hits to make the timing and positioning more important, like Malenias slashes. I also made a video about about dodging waterfowl point blank with jumps, it's pretty easy
@@loopine I dont think I used the word inconsistent. I said fickle. You can perfectly dodge the first swipe but be caught by the second while in the recovery animation. You have 13 s in a dodge. Then taking into consideration that you have to dodge early enough to the attack and also early enough to be out of the recovery animation in time to dodge the 2nd attack. Which lowers that window even further. 13 s is reasonable. This attack less so. Its borderline absurd. And like Waterfowl Dance point blank. Just because its possible that doesnt make it reasonable or fun. And tbh I dont understand why people will defend Fromsoftware to a fault. Elden Ring was maybe the game of the decade but its okay to recognize flaws or less ideal game design. Waterfowl is bullshit but people will deny it. I think its a knee-jerk reaction because people think if they accept soemthing is flawed theyre accepting that the game is bad or something
@@austin0_bandit05 bro idk what to tell you, the attack is more lenient than you think and even if the 2nd sword roll catches you because you have a bad reaction time once in a while the sword does no damage and you still can simply mash roll and avoid the club. If 4 ways to dodge it isn't enough for you the easiest way is just block the sword with a shield and roll the club.
Waterfowl is probably the most if not not only fun thing about malenia. The game has problems but once again the real ones aren't addressed because normies waste everyone's time spreading rumors and misinfo and muddying the discourse. An example would be whining about waterfowl and malenia healing when the problem is how her kit combos together, her broken aggro, her janky tracking, the arena terrain, and her ham fisted posture and poise immunity mechanic
Wooooo i already knew cuz i watched yo suck it anderson vid like 3 times but still thanks for uploading i fucking love this fight so much.
As someone who tanked these attacks when I fought Margit (at level 13 because I'm a stubborn bitch who refused to go and level properly) and had to heal often throughout the fight and had about 10 hp and no flasks left it's nice to know that you can actually dodg this to the right and back (I don't like backrolling because it hurts my pride)
Aww, yes, the boss that I though was mid and then when I came back to him on a 2nd playthrough had a blast and made me realise I played almost my entire first run like if ER was DS3 when its not. Classic.
Great video! Honestly, that video of VGMathews is much worser imo than the Joseph Anderson one. I agree with him on how ER's combat relies too much on delayed attacks, not because they're not fair but just cause after a while they feel very repetitive and tiresome to me. But when you do a 3 hour video that its sole purpose is trying to justify why ER's bosses have unfair design choices, you have to be very methodical and make sure what you're saying is actually true. But his analysis on Margit and Maliketh are absolutely abysmal. He said Maliketh is meant to be played very passively without the blasphemous claw. MALIKETH. DUDE, DO SOME RESEARCH.
Really? Sorry, haven't seen it, but if that's true then what the fuck was he on? Maliketh and passivity are like Midir and going for the ankles and tail; it - mostly - doesn't work, and it def isn't fun. I'm no god gamer (I don't do any forms of challenge runs), but it seemed pretty intuitive and obvious to me to be aggressive against him.
@@Marco1995Mega Yes, you're spot on. Haven't played against Midir yet cause I don't feel like playing DS3 again (nothing against the game, I'm just lazy to play the whole game again just for the DLC's), but the responses against Maliketh seems like the ones i saw when Ringed City came out and everyone was saying he was bullshit, then people realizing he's fantastic once they learn how to play it.
And yeah, to me it was really intuitive to play against him aggressively in his 2nd phase. I say this as a guy that was going with a strengh build and struggled to find openings on many bosses the first time around. But never with Maliketh. I don't get why people keep saying he doesn't have openings when quite literally every time he swings phisically his sword is an oportunity to attack, and he just doesn't leap in the air to the extent many are claiming.
OMG, i just realized i used the expression ''much worser''. Fuck, i'm sorry, i'm not a native speaker.
Fighting Margit RL1 was really fucking annoying to the point of just giving up and making a Guts build instead.
Might give it a shot again though, that and DS2, it just looks so fun.
Yea with Elden Ring you'll know off the bat if you wanna keep going after Margit. Ds2 though is all sunshine and roses until you get to Iron Keep
interesting and informative
Educational and entertaining
I tried this and still got hit. There goes my first ever hitless run. Down dooted...
Your first hitless is forever ruined 😭😭😭 it's soooo special 😿😿😿😿😿
The 3 hit combo where he pokes the ground at the end always hits me with the last hit if I roll spam backwards, I made a clip and I dodged the second hit perfectly, the third hit catches me no matter what
You said one wrong thing tho when roll straight back you can punish but you have to wait for him to start pulling the cane out while that animation plays do a jumping light attack that is a guaranteed punish as far as i know for he can't cancel that animation.
I'd say it's definitely feasible, the trick would be learning the timing as he can delay doing the quick knife for quite a bit
@@loopine it's the way i did it it's quite easy actually but if he does the one that starts woth a thrust he might follow up with tge slash one which is actually really easy to dodge even from dick twisting range.
@@loopine it's pretty easy actually as i said also i would recommend not punishing the attack where he does a cane and hammer swipe but rather being far and waiting for the jump follow up rolling forward into that but not to his right for that will ruin it then he will do the delayed cane stab which yoz can strafe and get a waaaay bigger punish also no tgreat of the 3 hit attack.
Sounds more complex then it is
i ended up still not being able to dodge a second time going left. alternatively, i rolling to the right and then out worked consistently, since the second swing takes longer to connect when rolling right
TL;DW Just git gud and don't be poor (REAL Gamers use high refresh rate monitors 💪😎)
There are probably more ways to dodge it I don't know of as well. This also isn't event counting the plethora of creative solutions you could do dodging with an ash of war or blocking the sword hits and rolling the club.
Also the VG Mathew vid I watched only the Margit and Regal Ancestral Spirit section like 3 months ago and I felt like I got the gist and didn't watch anything else.
@@BBQcheese oh brother 😔
Also, inb4 some dumbass comes here to say "if you need to make a guide for a boss that automatically makes them bad. gg"
@@loopine Games having depth is a crime of game design. Everything should be immediately obvious to every player!!
"Well, if you have to do a guide for a boss fight in a complex game about build variety and combat, then I'm doing homework and that's objectively bad design."
-Random people on the internet thinking you need summons to beat every boss.
I would 100% rather have a very hard to figure out boss so I can go online to get a general gist of how to fight him so I can use that strat and still be able to figure out more, than having bosses with every attack being reactable on the fly.
That VG Matthew video basically is "attack is hard to dodge= undodgeable".
idk if it got patched, but I've been pretty reliably able to dodge it by rolling directly right twice, for both variations
>you'll get a knack for it after like 20 minutes
that's a lot of minutes :)
Backwards rolling doesn't always work from personal experience though? Does it depend on timing or your initial positioning?
I dunno, might be a framerate issue. Do you play on console? I can roll backwards when I'm touching him. If it's inconsistent for you then you may have to be more careful about positioning. An option would be to do the 3rd method in order to get into range when you are at medium range and to be ready to do the sideways roll whenever you are standing in front of him after he finishes a combo and resets to neutral
@@loopine No i'm on PC. While my framerate is somewhat inconsistent it's never dropped against Margit before (pretty much only in some of the open world areas).
If I remember right, the problem is getting hit by the second attack after dodging the first. Either way I should really be testing this a little.
@@jacobnorris8256 I wonder about input delay but if you queue the second roll it shouldnt matter. Not sure what to say. Might have to do a test and see if it's possible that sometimes you just can't roll out
@@loopine After testing, it's entirely possible i've remembered it wrong and that it's only getting hit by the first swipe that makes dodging backwards nonviable. Though I wouldn't look past it potentially being unavoidable if you dodge the first hit too late.
I also am not sure if I tested it while truly being as far into him as possible, and I wonder what happens if you're very slightly to his right.
@@jacobnorris8256 you can roll it around to the right anyways, I think in the description I included wheatpuncher's video
Could some of these work with morgot?
I think morgott just swings the sword twice kind of like Margit double dagger iirc the optimal way is to roll behind him to the right and you can get a swing in before he links to hammer swing. If memory serves
Love how only the first boss in this game requires googling how to properly dodge their attacks but legit the entire rest of the cast is simple and enjoyable 😂
Fantastic vid my friend, not a Carian sword though Margit/Morgott has absolutely no connection to Caria
I did exactly this and still got hit
Update: I dodged to theright instead and managed to avoid damage 2 out of 3 times
Watch VG Matthews BC/Maliketh and Godfrey sections if you want to lose faith in humanity. Especially the former.
Thanks for this video!
Oh God I dont think my little heart could take it
It annoyed me when VGMatthew said Elden Ring took a step backwards in bosses because he doesn't know how to dodge their moves. I personally think Elden Ring has the second best bosses in the series, Sekiro is first.