It's definitely not in the realm of a therapist to start with a particular diagnosis, and then work backwards through the data from there. It would be much more appropriate to start with the data, and arrive at a particular diagnosis afterwards, especially for avoiding a confirmation bias.
In the interest of balance: This evidence-based approach would be ideal, but there are some situations where a clinician (particularly a specialist) is starting with a suspected diagnosis and must test its validity against alternate explanations. It is possible to do such an approach ethically and competently... and is certainly more than just rubber-stamping down the DSM criteria from a conversation or two. Obviously, what happened in this incident fits none of those established validation approaches.
If anyone is interested, an interesting paper on the topic by Mendel and colleagues (2011): "Confirmation bias: why psychiatrists stick to wrong preliminary diagnoses"
As someone who has been scarred by unethical behavior from a therapist, I truly appreciate that you took the time to give your thoughts about this situation. Thank you.
I said this on your Twitter too, but the most disturbing part to me was when she was pulled aside by Shane and asked what she thought so far and she said "Welll, he made me feel bad for him so that could be a symptom..." What?!?!?!? Even Shane said "I don't think that makes him one" and then she backpedaled. I have been subscribed to her since 2013 and I have to be honest, this whole thing made me REALLY see her in a super unprofessional light. As therapists, we are suppose to be as unbiased as possible (I get that we are human and sometimes emotion creeps in). She is taking it waaaayyyy too far with injecting emotion and "feeling" into this. It's literally like she is just using pure intuition to diagnose someone on the internet. It is so disturbing to me.
i think this video NEEDS to be shared. it is sad that so many people are going to have the wrong idea of ASPD. 3 of the people I know expressed that they thought they had ASPD (they do not) because of how vague her explainations of ASPD were.
I could not get through the specific video mentioned. My sister asked me to watch it as a forensic psychologist. What I told her was, “Watch it for entertainment, but don’t believe that you’ll get any valid answers from this series.”
MsAntigonaki totally off topic. Forensic psychologist is forever my dream job. A reality, sadly not. But for 30 plus years it’s all I wanted to do (still is😉) Are there any sites you would recommend for an armchair enthusiast? Btw. Absolutely the attitude I took towards the video. ✌🏽
The first therapist i ever saw broke ethics code and contributed to my development of PTSD. It has taken many years of hard work and a trustworthy therapist to work through the damage those actions caused me. Watching Kati do what she did really opened up a lot of those feelings again, and made me hurt for Jake if im being real here. Thank you for being willing to speak honestly and without bias to educate. I trust i can come to your channel for the science of this whole ordeal.
I can empathize so much, Kristin is coping. I still struggle with the effects of what transpired with a few unethical therapists. One of the most painful things that has happened in my life.
THANK YOU! The first comment I left on Shane's videos with Kati were about ethics and how she as a clinician should not be doing this. You've said in your two videos so much of what needed to be said. Disappointing that her responses so far have been to say that people are bullying her and that she will block you and threw in a half-hearted apology while defending everything she did so it wasn't really an apology anyway. The best thing she could have done was to respond letting people know she has taken the time to seriously consider what people have said to her and offer a real apology.
Ok, something he kept saying was appropriate for this situation "I don't have all the facts and I don't know what was previously agreed to". We, as the audience, do not have the full story here. It could have been a complete act in which they make it seem like Jake doesn't know Kati is a therapist but he actually does. Or many other scenarios. We simply don't and can't know all of the factors at play here. And the series isn't even finished! Also, people were bullying her or at least saying some nasty stuff. Not necessarily about her role as a clinician but just showing up on her videos and cussing her out. She has all the right to block those people. HOWEVER, she did not block anyone who kindly put forth their concerns. You can still read those in the comments. She welcomes criticism as long as it is done respectfully. Everyone wants their feelings to be acknowledged in this series but that simply cannot happen. You can't make everyone happy, nor should Shane or anyone else try to do so.
I'm really disappointed by this whole thing. I have been subscribed to Kati for a long time and have shown relevant videos of hers to people I know because she has provided a vital service on UA-cam. Up until this situation. I am afraid that this event will overshadow all of the progress she has made for mental health. Because of the celebrity involved, these will be high view videos for her and will likely be what she is known for on the platform. Now this web resource is lost to me. When I recommend Kati Morton videos to people not familiar with her work, this incident will come up. It will be in their feed. I unsubscribed and can't really recommend videos until she provides some acknowledgement of this mistake. (As an aside, I'm also disappointed in some of the fellow fans who have rallied around her and supported her in her mistake and encouraged her to ignore the criticisms that this has brought. This is not in the best interest of Kati or her work.)
@@ck2d In Kati's defense, I don't think this was some shallow fame grab. She overstepped an important professional boundary as she expanded her reach and, if you look at her previous approach, this mistake looks less sinister than it might first seem: She has a very informal style (probably derived chiefly from her specialty in working with eating disorders especially in young adults); she did alot of collaborations before this that seemed professional and successful; she built a pretty close support-group style community that is very tight knit; she put out alot of videos explaining the introductory wikipedia-level information on various therapy-related topics in very accessible formats. These things have attracted attention for a while before this (probably more than she intended) and likely made things less clear for her going in to this ill-advised video. All of this history can make this collaboration seem less cut and dry from her point of view without the benefit of hindsight. She should have seen the red flags: channels involved that are known for scandal and sensationalism, minimal editorial control, investigative instead of interview or informative formats, out of her specialty, etc. She made a public mistake that she should publicly correct for sure. That said, I am not ready to claim that she went in with selfish intent or that the process of making the video was as obviously bad as the results clearly are to an impartial viewer. But as a content creator she has to own the results. I classify this more as a "someone pulled out of their depth and thrown into difficult territory who made a mistake and is now not owning it" rather than it being greed, selling out, or fame-seeking.
Her one opportunity for redemption was her response video, in which she makes herself seem less legitimate by talking about "haters" and not taking responsibility for her unprofessionalism.
Really great video. Many have tried to voice their concerns with her on Kati’s channel but have been ignored or shamed by her fans. This video makes me feel more comfortable to be in therapy. Client-clinician relationships rely on trust and Kati is eroding that vision for many.
I think this whole incident also shows the difficult boundaries that exist for clinicians with an online presence who engage in collaborations with other channels. They may be able to be done properly (and are obviously a sound business strategy), but they can create complicated dual relationships and conflicts of interest that should not be taken lightly.
The worst part of the whole series for me is that it implies that we need to slap labels like narcissist and sociopath in order to cut people out of our lives... some people are good or bad for us in relationships and we need to take charge of that without distancing ourselves through the use of labels
Thank you for this video! What especially bothers me in her own defense of her words is that she has repeatedly pointed out that a psychopath "wouldn't care" about the things she listed in her video with Shane, as well as her description being dramatic in general. This dehumanization of psychopaths by a mental health professional is disturbing, and this will only perpetuate incorrect stereotypes about people with ASPD/cluster B personality disorders in general.
Exactly. Can you imagine the absolute shit show that would have ensued if she would have said that people with autism 'don't care' about themselves and others?
I don’t know why it’s so funny to hear someone talk about Shane’s video with such professionalism. It almost feels like I’m reading a research paper on the video. “An individual named Jake Paul” LOL this is no offense, I love it! Subscribed!
also, many of the things in the video that they characterised as sympthom of Sociopathy was a stretch. they are common things that most of us do.. for example... i convince my friends to go out with me... that's normal... not manipulative. i like the thrill from adrenaline... that's common in individuals like athletes or just people who like to stay active... not necessarily tied to a mental disorder. Jake was sharing a sad part of his childhood and she said he was looking for sympathy... tho that may be common in manupulative individuals... she in no way had enough proof that he was looking for sympathy as much as he was simply relating a part of his childhood. she also said that it was not her speciality... she deals with eating disorders. to me it's like asking an ultrasound technician to deliver a baby lol
After the 2nd video came out I literally started to think I was a sociopath lol. I'm glad professionals like Dr. Grande are making videos like this. Kati used to be my number one source for mental health related content on UA-cam but I can't support someone who won't even take accountability for their obvious mistakes.
Well here's the thing, when we look at the symptoms and behaviors of someone with ASD, we have to look at them as a spectrum. Yes, you can make your friends go out, on the spectrum that reflects as average. Athletes like adrenaline, again on a spectrum that's average. However if the person is frequently doing possibly harmful stunts with no concept if his own well-being, that is behavior at the tail end of the spectrum and a red flag. Kati didn't explain that enough and has everyone thinking they're sociopaths. They share the same qualities as you and I, but the qualities are way more amped and are severe in their occurrences.
TheDarkAngel396 i totally agree with everything you said but I just wonder if Shane had Jakes permission to use the Sociopathic angle. Irregardless, I think you are right. It’s just too serious of a subject matter to be presented the way it was.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if shane's series was half stage and half real. What I mean is it may have been brought up off camera before hand but didnt show it on camera to make it more dramatic
Her behavior on social media is strange considering the fact that she is a therapist. She blocks people, deletes comments, thinks people are bullying her when they simply disagree with her. Makes her look a bit unstable.
I agree. She even put out an "apology" video that was just horribly defensive, with the notion "I'm right and smarter than all of you and you're all wrong." I'm not someome who goes around calling just anyone fake, but she comes off very fake-nice and acts like she's smarter than everyone, which strikes me as very immature
Thank you Dr for this much needed explanation! I’m diagnosed with mental illness (not ASPD) and tbh i felt offended by some of Kati’s words in the documentary series and i too thought her actions were unprofessional.
Same here, to the point that I simply was not interested anymore to finish the last one and the one before it, I just wanna see a pure conversation between Shane and Jake, man on man and fully and NORMAL communication
@@orangecloud8820 I unsubbed from Shane... After so long. I just can't get what the fuck he's thinking. I feel sorry for doing this but this became unbearable
What I don't undertand is, if Jake Paul consented to be part of this series and be "psychologically profiled" (it feels like this is what they're trying to do) and explicitely said "no limits", why Shane and/or Kati didn't encourage him to go to a hospital, have his brain scanned, have him talk to professionals and maybe get him proper help. Why frame this whole series like "M -- A City Searches for a Murderer"? Instead they could've made a documentary about Jake Paul, who seems to have had a very difficult childhood, getting proper help. He has done a lot of very bad things but "cancel-culture" is not exactly helpful in this situation. Get him diagnosed, follow him on his road to mental health AND character improvement, and create an inspirational, helpful series for people with mental disorders.
That would've been so much more educational. Watching it makes me feel like I'm participating in gossiping about someone else. Most mainstream media does not further public understanding or knowledge of the mental health field or mental health treatment
this chick is so unprofessional every time i see her i wanna throw up. it sickens me how giddy she became over going to jake paul's house. like really.. you're just going to throw away your professionalism that easily?
Well said. In today's world it's usually not the professional voices that are heard the most, just the most popular ones, which can be quite a problem with misinformation. I hope more people see this video. Thanks, Dr. Grande!
As a PhD in Biopsychology I feel I have been badly hurt, abused and damaged by psychiatry and psychology and am now at 66 is considered unable to work due to being considered to be disabled. Thank you for expressing your concerns. In fact I find many of Kati Morton’s videos and popularity with many very vulnerable and who appear to be young people to be extremely disturbing.
The whole situation upsets me as a mental health patient. I can't believe a professional would do something like this. Trust is such an important part of the relationship between a patient and medical professional.
Therapy is a team effort - there is no 'us' and 'them'. This team effort is built on trust that is not easily gained and that is one of the many many reasons the Shane Dawson and Kati Morton videos are so damaging. Thank you for your educated and balanced response.
I’m sure the video was fake and set up. There’s a moment where Shane asks if Jake trusts him and he says “why else would I let your the-“ and cuts himself off and instead goes on about letting Shane film him. The assumption being that Jake was going to say “why else would I let your therapist come along.” Jake *knows* that Kati is a therapist and knows that the series is about “””proving””” he’s a sociopath. The whole video is set up for Jake, Shane and Kati to get attention and views. I find it very appalling that a mental health professional would pretend that she’s “””undercover””” especially to such a young impressionable audience. It’s almost as if she thinks that anti social personality disorder doesn’t deserve the respect that other mental illness do. I mean, if she followed someone around and “””tried to see””” if they had schizophrenia it would be seen as appalling. Why is it okay to do this when it concerns aspd?
I had thought from when it was revealed that this would be what was going on, I think that it would be quite difficult to have a reasonably well known (within youtube) personality go undercover around other people who live and breathe youtube. I think it's a shame that both Shane and Kati would lie about this, it throws the point of the docuseries for me to begin with and it seems like a dangerous career move to pretend to have ethically wrong practices to such a large and quite impressionable audience.
thank you for being a voice of reason. love your science and logic. i don't know how ethics were not considered before the filming. how will this play out for reputations....i'm curious.
Wow thank you. This was really well put together, as for your second question, from what I understand, the reason that she went under covers because Shane was afraid that Jake Paul was it going to be honest and give honest answers if he knew that she was a licensed therapist.
I have a masters and doctorate in clinical psychology, and completed a formal forensic fellowship. I came across Morton over a year ago, and there was quite a bit of evidence that indicated she frequently misrepresented herself, her experience, she has endangered patients, etc. I am so happy people are starting to have a conversation about this now. Thanks for sharing.
I am subscribed to her as well and feel like she was very unprofessional from the beginning of the series when she started talking about sociopathy. I just think she's doing it for fame maybe or to get more attention for her channel. I supported her for a while but I honestly think this is what she will be known for and will probably ruin her reputation. I see her as a bit fake now honestly. I myself, would hate/despise if some type of clinician went undercover to analyze me. I really think it goes against the code of ethics (which I have not read) and just as a moral stand point as well. I hope that makes sense. I definitely see your point of view and I'm glad that you shared it with us. Anyway, I just think they went over a lot of big boundaries in a bad way and even though I do get excited to watch them...or did I only do it fo Shane. But is he being fake now or trying to get more fame as well? No one can be trusted on youtube anymore....honestly. Everything's all about money and views.
Thank god someone finally said it! I've been arguing with people on his videos that this would have to be unethical, regardless of their not being a specific client relationship established (which was the argument most gave). Deception is an unethical regardless. And she also publicly made assessments to millions of people acting as an expert, despite her specialisation in research being on eating disorders - not ASPD or psychopathy. You've 100% earned a subscriber in me and my respect for being just about the only person on UA-cam to recognise this problem and make a video, so thank you!
Although I am lumped together with master's level clinicians--I see your point ethically. So many I attended grad school with were very remiss about the very situations you are referring to.
I think a major piece we are missing here is that Jake knows a lot more than what is being disclosed in regards to video content. It is very likely that Jake knows that Kati is a therapist and that she was working in the capacity as a consultant for the video. She talks about ethics on her channel on a regular basis, and many things are cut and edited for these videos. I feel like a lot of people fail to realize that videos like these are for entertainment purposes and it is very clear from all aspects that Kati is an LMFT and not a clinical psychologist who specializes in psychopathy, sociopathy, and APD. And if you listen to or speak with a number of different clinicians, each one has a different perspective of these. Kati simply had a perspective based on the DSM. He has a perspective based on research and a deeper knowledge. Other clinicians have a perspective based on their own experiences. Bottom line, the Jake Paul series is a dramatic series meant for entertainment and not educational purposes. It is very clear from his content that this is the case. And Kati made a video after the fact addressing the fact that his video was edited to be quite dramatic and she went on to reveal her true perspective on sociopathy. This is a prime example of why we shouldn’t judge a book by its cover. There is more information on each page. We don’t have access to the pages and therefore, cannot make a determination on anything.
As someone who is studying to be a mental health counselor, I was appalled by her role in the series, and how mental health was dealt with the entire series, just based on what I've learned and discussions I've had surrounding ethics and informed consent in my classes. Thank you so much for touching on this.
I was wondering how this undercover-therapy-thing should work or be ethical at all... I really appreciate this video and its explanatory intention. Thank you!
Thank you for including your perception of what is missing and helpful from this series and information given during such. I appreciate your manor of delivery of information, it’s clearly to help educate and enlighten those of us who have viewed said series and what we may have been misinformed of. Thank you. I am also glad that you reiterated that Kati had, indeed, mentioned that this area of psychology was not her area of expertise, she had even made a similar comment during her interview with Shane in episode 2. Which I think is important for the viewer to make note of, since in my mind it reduces the weight behind her words and opinions. It also highlights those moments where she misspeaks (calling the symptoms of ASPD os creepy and gross) or throws in a gut feeling about her observations, it makes those moments stand out more in my mind as biased, useless, and unnecessary for Shane’s video. Clearly, his idea for a series looking into sociopaths should have been made as a separate, more thought out, and with serious care. While this series about Jake should have just focused on Jake and his choices made as a UA-camr.
According to psychologist Kevin Dutton who wrote widely on the topic sociopaths are reprisented in the clergy. Here is his full list. The top ten jobs that attract sociopaths, according to author Kevin Dutton are: CEO. ... Lawyer. ... Media. ... Salesperson. ... Surgeon. ... Journalist. ... Policeman. ... Clergyman.
Another excellent analysis. I'd dispute the scope of practice limitation- she makes the claim that she does not work with people with the disorders that she is "commenting on," and I think scope of practice is one of the more troublesome legal/ethical terms out there.. does it mean specialized post-grad training, specific continuing education, or just the degree? ...scope of practice in a legal sense is often tied to what insurance companies require of a service provider, or what state law designates as appropriate for a given specialty (LMFT/LPC/LCSW, etc) .. But her master's degree program would have covered these disorders, and the LMFT scope of practice includes all of the disorders she has used interchangeably in California- so she is trained in at least a basic understanding of treatment and diagnosis for people who experience those categories of disorders. Enough not to say she's not here to diagnose while s̶m̶u̶g̶l̶y̶ (ok.. keep it objective keep it objective) carrying around a book about personality disorders. I think the stigma that arises out of these videos, and the unnaturally dramatic facial expressions Morton uses in her thumbnails are all a detriment to mental health destigmatization, and that breaks my heart. Thank you, Dr. Grande for sharing your analysis. (former clinical counselor educator, now higher ed counseling and student affairs educator.)
Watching all of this makes me wish we had licensure portability for LPCs.. I left mine in Ohio with no reason to renew back there, and here in California I would need to retake many of the courses I've been teaching for nearly a decade. "Practitioner scholar" is not practical for counselor education, except for a handful of states, or those who endeavor never to leave their state.
Thank you for this video. I'm in my first year of graduate school in counseling, just starting to dive into ethics, but I knew something felt questionable about this situation. If I remember correctly, they got consent from Jake after the "evaluation" had already occurred, which really isn't how consent works. The whole situation also has the potential to be damaging to Jake psychologically, with regards to trust. I really enjoy a lot of Kati Morton's videos, and looked up to her as a clinician. I hope she addresses this.
This is certainly a special case, and I enjoy listening to your opinion and perspective on the situation regarding Kati and Shane's new video series. I genuinely like the video, but it is dramatized and it's important to take much of what is stated with a grain of salt. I think Kati has good intentions, but because of the nature of those videos, it becomes sensationalized. I don't think the video implies that going undercover is a normal thing to do as a therapist, and even though the information people are getting about ASPD is not 100% factual, it opens up an important conversations and I'm sure a lot of people are learning more about it. (And some of them will do more research, for example ending up at your channel which I did.) I'm deeply interested in ASPD as I find people with this disorder very fascinating, and I thought that I had it when I was younger (17-18) Turned out it was mostly apathy/cynicism from depression, and I've taken a personality disorder test profesionally and I didn't score high on anything. I'm looking forward to future videos, Todd!
Found you through all this Shane Dawson drama and I’m so excited to watch all your videos on BPD and learn more about something I was diagnosed with a couple of years ago and still don’t fully understand
i think she was definitely unethical. what she was doing was more or less research and one of the first things in research is that though the researcher may have a hypothesis, they should not do things in a biased manner. everyone has an opinion but on a researcher is not supposed to express it because it skews the opinions of others. just because someone does not think the way we think or process emotions the way we do does not mean we should call them "gross" or "creepy" or "icky"! Also, she made a response to the hate that she received from the collab and got REALLY defensive instead of apologising. Many constructive criticisms were left on the video and she completely ignored them. Most of her videos are very opinionated, she did not even explain that there is a spectrum. Individuals with ASPD can feel love in the are lower in the spectrum... she made them out to be serial killers who feel nothing and care for nothing. I recently looked at a video she did where she reviewed the tv show/book called "13 reasons why" she completely missed the point of the show. she was very negative and close-minded about it, did not see the bigger picture. Almost like she had preconceived notions.
Another topic this incident touches on is the importance of unconditional positive regard and similar boundary-based approaches as components of clinical professionalism and ethics.
Thank you so much for this. You put your case forward very clearly. As a registered Dramatherapist in the UK I had a high level of concern around the role boundaries, ethical practise, level of experience and transparency of the therapist. Of course we don’t know if Jake was in on the whole thing or not, but regardless of this, the programme was aired to a massive audience, some of whom may have misperception of ‘social paths’ and/or what therapy is, what a therapists code of ethics, boundaries and responsibilities are. This programme showed the viewer not just stereotypes of social paths but also of therapist, that they are sneaky, they are trying to get something out of you, which might put someone off of engaging in therapy. Also if you have no experience of therapy you make think all therapists behave like this or it is ok for a therapist to have unclear boundaries. I just hope a lot of people did research afterwards and found videos like yours to gain clarity of the situation x
I forgave Kati for the first video she appeared in, I merely blamed it on Shane's horror movie-esque editing. I didn't take it seriously. I've found Shane's series quite entertaining, but I really wish Kati hadn't joined in. Her information was very misleading and hyped Shane up the wrong way. It's all reflected really badly on her and she didn't even contribute much IMO. Then you see everyone's diagnosing themselves or others in the comment section based on her opinion (which she has said is not her professional opinion, but Shane certainly framed it that way). I know it's not to be taken too seriously and you can't believe everything someone says just because they seem to be an authority, Jake Paul clearly isn't a sociopath and he was never going to be revealed as one otherwise the series wouldn't exist, but there are a lot of kids watching and taking it all at face value. Yes we should be having more conversations about mental health, but we don't need people flinging accusations. I'm fairly certain Shane's intention was to combat baselessly accusing people of personality disorders, and I'm not sure yet if he's made it better or worse. The line that really got me was Kati's comment that she felt sorry for Jake, therefore he must be manipulative. That was straight up paranoia. She's either acting or terribly biased against even a perceived case of ASPD. Maybe it's all staged and she had consent all along, but it still looks really bad. A therapist shouldn't be pulling stunts either way.
Kati Morton needs her license revoked. She is extremely unethical. Not just in this Shane Dawson series but also in her previous videos and social media profiles. She carries herself as a psychologist (when she is just a therapist), often diagnosing and making very broad statements about other disorders. She often uses the disclaimer “this is not my area of expertise” before making sometimes false statements or clearly opinionated statements about disorders. She also likes to throw the DSM around way to much as a reference to back up her claims.
Shannonlovesth Yes as a PhD Biopsychologist I have researched the DSM extensively. It is widely used and cited but has NO scientific credibility or reliability. Kati Morton has no background in research and just reiterates what she has been taught. With all the utube presentations she does and so called inexpensive text therapy how do vulnerable young people know that she really knows what she is talking about based on real patient experience?? I trust more Daniel Mackler who was a former therapist and really struggled with his experience with real clients and therapists.
Wonderful video. Thank you for providing an object and professional take on this. The sensationalization portrayed in Shane’s video is giving mental health professionals a bad name, in my opinion.
Dr. Todd Grande Oh gosh, I’m honoured. Didn’t think you’d notice this haha. Keep doing good work, is all I can say. Currently a college student who wants to do good work in the medical field too.
Since most people on the cluster b spectrum, especially at the malignant end, will never be diagnosed, it is crucial that laypeople be educated about red flags & behaviors. This is incredibly hard to convey through the DSM or studies presented online. Regular people and former victims are demanding this information and there is incredible, high quality info from both clinicians and patients outside of the treatment room or scientific journals. Abuse survivor testimonials save lives of distraught victims seeking guidance. Kati’s purpose was participating in a supportive capacity as an informed outsider & friend to Shane. Like someone would weigh in with a quote in an article or profile outside of a clinical capacity. She disclosed all of this and it was consented by the subject being profiled.
I was so excited to see you made this video! I'm a new subscriber and really appreciate the work you put into your videos. Listening to you on the way to class has been a great way for me to sort of freshen up my readings. I feel like we learn so much in such a short time, so your videos have really helped. As a clinical sw student, AND huge Shane Dawson fan, I have gently expressed the exact same concerns in comments about this. Someone said I was way off base because I'm "just an intern". Now, I can say the real experts agree!
I like Shane but I had a lot of issues with this whole thing. Thank you for presenting exactly the issues I was feeling about it and couldn't find the words to explain. "Therapy is not an undercover operation". You hit the nail on the head.
I’m an LPC and have been in the field for over 10 years. I love your channel and agree with your commentary on this topic. It saddens me that those videos may have painted the mental health field in a negative light. Thank you for your input.
I was subscribed to her for a short while some months ago. I had to unsubscribe again after having followed her for a short while, I don’t remember exactly why though, but something about her approach made me uncomfortable. I have been following the Shane Series from the sidelines, but I have not watched it, I feel like the whole thing is kind of off. In a way it was as people say, a “mistake” that she participated in this series, but at the same time her doing that and then her subsequent response to criticism concerning her participation and the things she said, is something I feel like it’s good to know and for people to see and be aware of. I feel bad for her loyal fans who have gained something from her videos and are therefore now supporting her and enabling her in this, because she is encouraging them to do that by liking their comments. I feel like she’s handling this whole thing extremely irresponsibly, by taking the constructive criticisms as an attack on her as a person. This video is great, as was the previous one on this issue, will be subscribing! Professionalism is awesome and important.
Victims and those vulnerable to abuse absolutely deserve information outside of clinical settings. Dependency on authorities to interpret dangerous situations and people should not be the point of therapy.
No one deserves a PUBLIC DIAGNOSIS. Unless they are deceased and their families have signed them over to science, no psychiatrist should diagnose anyone in front of any public. I have been subscribed to Kati and I've even told my sister to follow her. Kati is not a doctor and perhaps that's why she does not think that there's a confidentiality involved, but then she shouldn't be diagnosing whoever in public, for monetary gain no less! My psychiatrist even advised me that I do not need to disclose my diagnosis to anyone. It will remain confidential unless I decide it is not, which I have. But no one deserves their illness to be mocked. Whether or not Jake Paul is a sociopath, he can discuss that with his psychiatrist. Even Trump, the question of senility must be discussed with his psychiatrist. The psychiatrist may initiate the meeting, but privately. Not on TV, not on any social platform. This concept of going undercover only works on criminals because, criminals ALREADY KNOW that they outside the law and the undercover operative is merely there to call them out. The mental health sufferer MAY NOT know and COULD NOT self-diagnose, even if and when they have read the entire dsm, that they are sufferers. And also? Mental illness is not a crime! There are crimes committed by the mentally ill but even then, you have to work out if their symptoms are what led to the crime and not just poverty, abuse, etc. Listen, I don't like Jake Paul as a youtube content creator but Jake Paul as a private person? I have nothing against the man. And if he does suffer from mental illness, any therapist would know that public shaming is never the way to go if the goal is to rehabilitate and not get views and ad revenue. The very things that Jake Paul is doing.
I’m a research assistant as part of a developmental disabilities team and found her poor knowledge of the research area very concerning - even just basic info such as the prevalence of sociopathy and likely prognosis. The lack of informed consent is also a huge breach imo and may cause backlash for the mental health community.
Hello, Dr. Grande! I'm a social worker also making mental health videos on UA-cam. I came across your videos recently and I wanted to say thank you for your videos on this platforms. It can be difficult receiving backlash that comes with commenting on "trending" topics, which leads to swarm of brash negative comments on your professionalism or comments. I experienced this recently as well due to my video I made on this series. I believe that it is important to spread awareness and advocacy regarding ethics of our field! Sorry this was so long, but thank you for your non-biased commentary - I agree with you completely and stand with you!
It is a shame that you you have a relatively low viewer count and subscriber. While I am sure my own opinions about the whole kati morton/betterhelp topic is a strong factor, I am really enjoying your videos and your channel as a whole. You earned my subscription :) Really hope your channel gets bigger
I hope Kati sees this, and watches it until the end. She dismissed all concerns as "bullies" and "haters" harassing her. It's a very serious and chilling issue.
I've found these really helpful. When she said her specialty was Eating Disorders and Depression (I think that was the other one) and not Sociopathy I was honestly a little taken aback. When Shane went to her she should have turned down the offer all together or referred him to someone that knew it better. Question - Jake Paul's brother did a video and said he's on the Sociopathic scale, but not a sociopath. Is that a thing? Are some people technically sociopaths but just not "as bad" as others... and I guess that is more is there an ASPD scale?
Sociopathy is on a continuum, so different individuals could experience symptoms to varying degrees. ASPD theoretically would be on a continuum as well, but diagnostically, it is either present or absent (categorical).
She technically just observed the individual and it was agreed upon that a therapist could asses him no limits, while I do admit that it's pretty shady to be an undercover therapist but I feel like Jake wouldn't do anything crazy like file lawsuit and another thing is that Kati was really there with a rile of a friend more then a therapist so basically it's like bringing a smart friend to check something. Still I don't agree with this kind of action as it is a risky move and I think it could be done in a safer way.
I’m really coming to appreciate your channel I hope more people do too. It would be very interesting to see your/scientific views regarding the Better Help service that Shane Dawson was originally promoting in the series regarding Sociopaths/Jake Paul. Thank you for great content.
She didn't appear to be very knowledgeable in this particular field, constantly reading from books. Her advice and information was incredibly unethical in the way it was presented, that it almost makes her appear unprofessional and unqualified. I have dealt with numerous clinician's in my life, none of which had acted in the way that she did in those videos. Unfortunately she made the wrong call by being apart of these videos in the way she did.
I watched the series because it came to my attention that the Paul brothers were targeting children as their viewing audience and creating inappropriate content. As a parent, I wanted to know what that was and who these people are, what they are about without having to sit through all of their videos, so I could talk to my own children about it. My kids do not watch their videos but other kids around them have and make reference to them. I find Shane's video series to be useful in this context. My understanding of Kati's involvement is that earlier in the series Shane asked Kati if Logan or Jake could be dangerous and was apprehensive about walking into this situation because people in the Paul videos had been hit, spit on, etc. She agreed to observe to advise him to if he was in danger. But I agree that the actual video of the actual confrontation was edited to make her look creepy hanging out behind the scenes and she was feeding him questions. So is this a cross over between being a friend and her profession? I agree, that these videos could misrepresent professional therapists in a negative light. Thank you for making this video clarifying ethics.
I can 100% guarantee he knew everything beforehand. I cannot see Kati doing that. She was much more unprofessional when she gave an opinion video on Logan Paul after his suicide forest video fallout. I thought her negative opinion of him was highly unprofessional. Therapists should remain neutral on opinions of behaviours.
actually, she personally said (in the sec 6:36), (idk if she was joking) "this is not my speciality, I'm just saying, I work with eating disorders and self-injury", I'm not sure if that is relevant (idk a lot of these topics, as you can see) but that was a loud thing for me.
Dr Grande, thank you for your concise analysis! In regards to Jake Paul, is 'sociopath' the accurate ballpark for assessment or does this seem like NPD?
Very interesting. I would be very interested in knowing the opinion from a professional that is equipped to asses Katie appropriate or inappropriate behavior in this case. I think that an assessment of any professional should be with all the necessary information available to conclude an accurate assessment not just what one has on hand. Not responsible to anyone to do so otherwise.
I think that this is a lot of technical, text stuff. The thing is that Katie was not diagnosing, treating or even directly analyzing Jake; she was not interviewing him and her interactions were minimal. Her client, if she had one, was the person consulting her: Shane. He is the one asking her questions and so forth for his own inner search of sorts; she was just an observer of Shane's object of interest and she was helping him sort out his thing. Anyway; I think that Katie is a high person and she may have had reasons for participating; social media is becoming a big thing affecting many people, especially young people and Katie spoke publicly and decried earlier this year about Logan's filming the remains of a person who had committed suicide. She is a high soul and she probably gave some thought to this, I'm sure with good motives and reasons. Did she have to introduce herself by what she does for a living while present? I'm not sure, especially if she is not working directly with him but just observing.
It's definitely not in the realm of a therapist to start with a particular diagnosis, and then work backwards through the data from there. It would be much more appropriate to start with the data, and arrive at a particular diagnosis afterwards, especially for avoiding a confirmation bias.
In the interest of balance:
This evidence-based approach would be ideal, but there are some situations where a clinician (particularly a specialist) is starting with a suspected diagnosis and must test its validity against alternate explanations. It is possible to do such an approach ethically and competently... and is certainly more than just rubber-stamping down the DSM criteria from a conversation or two.
Obviously, what happened in this incident fits none of those established validation approaches.
Thanks Mike; good point.
If anyone is interested, an interesting paper on the topic by Mendel and colleagues (2011): "Confirmation bias: why psychiatrists stick to wrong preliminary diagnoses"
@Ryan C She is a therapist on this platform and used the DSM... that's not a friend that is a therapist making a mistake.
As someone who has been scarred by unethical behavior from a therapist, I truly appreciate that you took the time to give your thoughts about this situation. Thank you.
turns out she's also a plagiarist xD
@@greenboarder89 Tell me more
You are quite welcome!
@Janna just search kati morton plagiarist on youtube.
Quite disappointing to see a health professional such as Kati project poor values and practice.
this really needs to be seen by more people
I said this on your Twitter too, but the most disturbing part to me was when she was pulled aside by Shane and asked what she thought so far and she said "Welll, he made me feel bad for him so that could be a symptom..." What?!?!?!? Even Shane said "I don't think that makes him one" and then she backpedaled. I have been subscribed to her since 2013 and I have to be honest, this whole thing made me REALLY see her in a super unprofessional light. As therapists, we are suppose to be as unbiased as possible (I get that we are human and sometimes emotion creeps in). She is taking it waaaayyyy too far with injecting emotion and "feeling" into this. It's literally like she is just using pure intuition to diagnose someone on the internet. It is so disturbing to me.
i think this video NEEDS to be shared. it is sad that so many people are going to have the wrong idea of ASPD. 3 of the people I know expressed that they thought they had ASPD (they do not) because of how vague her explainations of ASPD were.
Jessie Dowlah good point! I would to see a video that discusses the ramifications of mislabeling a pwASPD.
I could not get through the specific video mentioned. My sister asked me to watch it as a forensic psychologist. What I told her was, “Watch it for entertainment, but don’t believe that you’ll get any valid answers from this series.”
MsAntigonaki totally off topic. Forensic psychologist is forever my dream job. A reality, sadly not. But for 30 plus years it’s all I wanted to do (still is😉) Are there any sites you would recommend for an armchair enthusiast? Btw. Absolutely the attitude I took towards the video. ✌🏽
The first therapist i ever saw broke ethics code and contributed to my development of PTSD. It has taken many years of hard work and a trustworthy therapist to work through the damage those actions caused me. Watching Kati do what she did really opened up a lot of those feelings again, and made me hurt for Jake if im being real here.
Thank you for being willing to speak honestly and without bias to educate. I trust i can come to your channel for the science of this whole ordeal.
I can empathize so much, Kristin is coping. I still struggle with the effects of what transpired with a few unethical therapists. One of the most painful things that has happened in my life.
You're welcome!
Would you be willing to share what ethics the therapist broke? Thank you!
THANK YOU! The first comment I left on Shane's videos with Kati were about ethics and how she as a clinician should not be doing this. You've said in your two videos so much of what needed to be said. Disappointing that her responses so far have been to say that people are bullying her and that she will block you and threw in a half-hearted apology while defending everything she did so it wasn't really an apology anyway. The best thing she could have done was to respond letting people know she has taken the time to seriously consider what people have said to her and offer a real apology.
Ok, something he kept saying was appropriate for this situation "I don't have all the facts and I don't know what was previously agreed to". We, as the audience, do not have the full story here. It could have been a complete act in which they make it seem like Jake doesn't know Kati is a therapist but he actually does. Or many other scenarios. We simply don't and can't know all of the factors at play here. And the series isn't even finished!
Also, people were bullying her or at least saying some nasty stuff. Not necessarily about her role as a clinician but just showing up on her videos and cussing her out. She has all the right to block those people. HOWEVER, she did not block anyone who kindly put forth their concerns. You can still read those in the comments. She welcomes criticism as long as it is done respectfully.
Everyone wants their feelings to be acknowledged in this series but that simply cannot happen. You can't make everyone happy, nor should Shane or anyone else try to do so.
Well said
I'm really disappointed by this whole thing. I have been subscribed to Kati for a long time and have shown relevant videos of hers to people I know because she has provided a vital service on UA-cam. Up until this situation.
I am afraid that this event will overshadow all of the progress she has made for mental health. Because of the celebrity involved, these will be high view videos for her and will likely be what she is known for on the platform.
Now this web resource is lost to me. When I recommend Kati Morton videos to people not familiar with her work, this incident will come up. It will be in their feed. I unsubscribed and can't really recommend videos until she provides some acknowledgement of this mistake.
(As an aside, I'm also disappointed in some of the fellow fans who have rallied around her and supported her in her mistake and encouraged her to ignore the criticisms that this has brought. This is not in the best interest of Kati or her work.)
It does seem that she went for a publicity grab and it warped her sense of judgment.
@@ck2d
In Kati's defense, I don't think this was some shallow fame grab. She overstepped an important professional boundary as she expanded her reach and, if you look at her previous approach, this mistake looks less sinister than it might first seem:
She has a very informal style (probably derived chiefly from her specialty in working with eating disorders especially in young adults); she did alot of collaborations before this that seemed professional and successful; she built a pretty close support-group style community that is very tight knit; she put out alot of videos explaining the introductory wikipedia-level information on various therapy-related topics in very accessible formats. These things have attracted attention for a while before this (probably more than she intended) and likely made things less clear for her going in to this ill-advised video.
All of this history can make this collaboration seem less cut and dry from her point of view without the benefit of hindsight. She should have seen the red flags: channels involved that are known for scandal and sensationalism, minimal editorial control, investigative instead of interview or informative formats, out of her specialty, etc.
She made a public mistake that she should publicly correct for sure. That said, I am not ready to claim that she went in with selfish intent or that the process of making the video was as obviously bad as the results clearly are to an impartial viewer. But as a content creator she has to own the results.
I classify this more as a "someone pulled out of their depth and thrown into difficult territory who made a mistake and is now not owning it" rather than it being greed, selling out, or fame-seeking.
If you look at her recent channel analytics, she got a massive subscriber bump from the exposure.
Her one opportunity for redemption was her response video, in which she makes herself seem less legitimate by talking about "haters" and not taking responsibility for her unprofessionalism.
@@mikebaker2436 If she didn't do it for publicity, why does she hawk her new book in every single video she puts out?
Really great video. Many have tried to voice their concerns with her on Kati’s channel but have been ignored or shamed by her fans. This video makes me feel more comfortable to be in therapy. Client-clinician relationships rely on trust and Kati is eroding that vision for many.
Thank you!
I think this whole incident also shows the difficult boundaries that exist for clinicians with an online presence who engage in collaborations with other channels. They may be able to be done properly (and are obviously a sound business strategy), but they can create complicated dual relationships and conflicts of interest that should not be taken lightly.
Mome Gnome now you seem like a hater
The worst part of the whole series for me is that it implies that we need to slap labels like narcissist and sociopath in order to cut people out of our lives... some people are good or bad for us in relationships and we need to take charge of that without distancing ourselves through the use of labels
Thank you for this video!
What especially bothers me in her own defense of her words is that she has repeatedly pointed out that a psychopath "wouldn't care" about the things she listed in her video with Shane, as well as her description being dramatic in general. This dehumanization of psychopaths by a mental health professional is disturbing, and this will only perpetuate incorrect stereotypes about people with ASPD/cluster B personality disorders in general.
Exactly. Can you imagine the absolute shit show that would have ensued if she would have said that people with autism 'don't care' about themselves and others?
Emily Harrison
*sociopath *sociopaths
You're welcome!
I don’t know about sociopaths caring about things, but are you sure you know much about psychopaths ?
Bolsheviki did you just compared autism with psycopathy?
I don’t know why it’s so funny to hear someone talk about Shane’s video with such professionalism. It almost feels like I’m reading a research paper on the video. “An individual named Jake Paul” LOL this is no offense, I love it!
Subscribed!
Thank you!
also, many of the things in the video that they characterised as sympthom of Sociopathy was a stretch. they are common things that most of us do.. for example... i convince my friends to go out with me... that's normal... not manipulative. i like the thrill from adrenaline... that's common in individuals like athletes or just people who like to stay active... not necessarily tied to a mental disorder. Jake was sharing a sad part of his childhood and she said he was looking for sympathy... tho that may be common in manupulative individuals... she in no way had enough proof that he was looking for sympathy as much as he was simply relating a part of his childhood. she also said that it was not her speciality... she deals with eating disorders. to me it's like asking an ultrasound technician to deliver a baby lol
After the 2nd video came out I literally started to think I was a sociopath lol. I'm glad professionals like Dr. Grande are making videos like this. Kati used to be my number one source for mental health related content on UA-cam but I can't support someone who won't even take accountability for their obvious mistakes.
Well here's the thing, when we look at the symptoms and behaviors of someone with ASD, we have to look at them as a spectrum. Yes, you can make your friends go out, on the spectrum that reflects as average. Athletes like adrenaline, again on a spectrum that's average. However if the person is frequently doing possibly harmful stunts with no concept if his own well-being, that is behavior at the tail end of the spectrum and a red flag. Kati didn't explain that enough and has everyone thinking they're sociopaths. They share the same qualities as you and I, but the qualities are way more amped and are severe in their occurrences.
I knew Kati Morton doing this was unethical but I don’t blame Shane I blame her. She really should have known better.
TheDarkAngel396 i totally agree with everything you said but I just wonder if Shane had Jakes permission to use the Sociopathic angle. Irregardless, I think you are right. It’s just too serious of a subject matter to be presented the way it was.
TheDarkAngel396 Jake knew that the documentary was going to be based around the sociopath question to begin with
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if shane's series was half stage and half real. What I mean is it may have been brought up off camera before hand but didnt show it on camera to make it more dramatic
Nice video. Tough I don't need to read the codes of ethic to come to a conclusion. She looked very unprofessional in both 'docu-series'
Thank you!
Her behavior on social media is strange considering the fact that she is a therapist. She blocks people, deletes comments, thinks people are bullying her when they simply disagree with her. Makes her look a bit unstable.
TheInternet Sucks Yes as a PhD Biopsychologist I agree
I agree. She even put out an "apology" video that was just horribly defensive, with the notion "I'm right and smarter than all of you and you're all wrong." I'm not someome who goes around calling just anyone fake, but she comes off very fake-nice and acts like she's smarter than everyone, which strikes me as very immature
TheInternet Sucks really
TheInternet Sucks what’s her Twitter I want to test a theory
Becca I always never liked her
Why would a marriage counselor be needed for anti personality disorder.
Thank you Dr for this much needed explanation! I’m diagnosed with mental illness (not ASPD) and tbh i felt offended by some of Kati’s words in the documentary series and i too thought her actions were unprofessional.
You're welcome!
The whole series has truly bothered me.
I couldn't even watch them because it seemed so fake and just a way to get views/money
Me too. It’s a very problematic series
Same here, to the point that I simply was not interested anymore to finish the last one and the one before it, I just wanna see a pure conversation between Shane and Jake, man on man and fully and NORMAL communication
@@hannah3146 if it was for views and money then why did he go with the plan of making the series despite the backlash that came with it.
@@orangecloud8820 I unsubbed from Shane... After so long. I just can't get what the fuck he's thinking. I feel sorry for doing this but this became unbearable
What I don't undertand is, if Jake Paul consented to be part of this series and be "psychologically profiled" (it feels like this is what they're trying to do) and explicitely said "no limits", why Shane and/or Kati didn't encourage him to go to a hospital, have his brain scanned, have him talk to professionals and maybe get him proper help. Why frame this whole series like "M -- A City Searches for a Murderer"? Instead they could've made a documentary about Jake Paul, who seems to have had a very difficult childhood, getting proper help. He has done a lot of very bad things but "cancel-culture" is not exactly helpful in this situation. Get him diagnosed, follow him on his road to mental health AND character improvement, and create an inspirational, helpful series for people with mental disorders.
Leigh that’s actually a brilliant idea! I would 100% watch that
That would've been so much more educational. Watching it makes me feel like I'm participating in gossiping about someone else. Most mainstream media does not further public understanding or knowledge of the mental health field or mental health treatment
@@MomeGnome its Shane. He could make a video of him just sitting there reading a book interesting
this chick is so unprofessional every time i see her i wanna throw up. it sickens me how giddy she became over going to jake paul's house. like really.. you're just going to throw away your professionalism that easily?
Senpie I agree. Every time she comes up in the series I’m like “this bitch again???”
Well said. In today's world it's usually not the professional voices that are heard the most, just the most popular ones, which can be quite a problem with misinformation. I hope more people see this video. Thanks, Dr. Grande!
You're welcome!
My therapist is Licensed in CA & Wa..
I mentioned this to her and showed her a clip of what kati was doing and my therapist was not impressed..
As a PhD in Biopsychology I feel I have been badly hurt, abused and damaged by psychiatry and psychology and am now at 66 is considered unable to work due to being considered to be disabled. Thank you for expressing your concerns. In fact I find many of Kati Morton’s videos and popularity with many very vulnerable and who appear to be young people to be extremely disturbing.
The whole situation upsets me as a mental health patient. I can't believe a professional would do something like this. Trust is such an important part of the relationship between a patient and medical professional.
Therapy is a team effort - there is no 'us' and 'them'. This team effort is built on trust that is not easily gained and that is one of the many many reasons the Shane Dawson and Kati Morton videos are so damaging. Thank you for your educated and balanced response.
You are quite welcome!
i tweeted this video to them. hopefully they see it and not write it off as hate. thank you for making this video.
You're welcome!
I’m sure the video was fake and set up. There’s a moment where Shane asks if Jake trusts him and he says “why else would I let your the-“ and cuts himself off and instead goes on about letting Shane film him. The assumption being that Jake was going to say “why else would I let your therapist come along.” Jake *knows* that Kati is a therapist and knows that the series is about “””proving””” he’s a sociopath. The whole video is set up for Jake, Shane and Kati to get attention and views. I find it very appalling that a mental health professional would pretend that she’s “””undercover””” especially to such a young impressionable audience. It’s almost as if she thinks that anti social personality disorder doesn’t deserve the respect that other mental illness do. I mean, if she followed someone around and “””tried to see””” if they had schizophrenia it would be seen as appalling. Why is it okay to do this when it concerns aspd?
I saw that too, was wondering if was going to say therapist.
I had thought from when it was revealed that this would be what was going on, I think that it would be quite difficult to have a reasonably well known (within youtube) personality go undercover around other people who live and breathe youtube. I think it's a shame that both Shane and Kati would lie about this, it throws the point of the docuseries for me to begin with and it seems like a dangerous career move to pretend to have ethically wrong practices to such a large and quite impressionable audience.
thank you for being a voice of reason. love your science and logic. i don't know how ethics were not considered before the filming. how will this play out for reputations....i'm curious.
You're welcome!
Wow thank you. This was really well put together, as for your second question, from what I understand, the reason that she went under covers because Shane was afraid that Jake Paul was it going to be honest and give honest answers if he knew that she was a licensed therapist.
Treelo yes,
@@treelo11 that's a really good point
I have a masters and doctorate in clinical psychology, and completed a formal forensic fellowship. I came across Morton over a year ago, and there was quite a bit of evidence that indicated she frequently misrepresented herself, her experience, she has endangered patients, etc.
I am so happy people are starting to have a conversation about this now. Thanks for sharing.
Dr. 👏🏼Todd 👏🏼Grande 👏🏼ain't 👏🏼playin' 👏🏼he 👏🏼brought 👏🏼facts
It wasn’t appropriate or ethical. I was extremely disappointed by Kati’s decision to participate in that video.
I am subscribed to her as well and feel like she was very unprofessional from the beginning of the series when she started talking about sociopathy. I just think she's doing it for fame maybe or to get more attention for her channel. I supported her for a while but I honestly think this is what she will be known for and will probably ruin her reputation. I see her as a bit fake now honestly. I myself, would hate/despise if some type of clinician went undercover to analyze me. I really think it goes against the code of ethics (which I have not read) and just as a moral stand point as well. I hope that makes sense. I definitely see your point of view and I'm glad that you shared it with us. Anyway, I just think they went over a lot of big boundaries in a bad way and even though I do get excited to watch them...or did I only do it fo Shane. But is he being fake now or trying to get more fame as well? No one can be trusted on youtube anymore....honestly. Everything's all about money and views.
Thank you for your unbiased analysis of the situation. Shane and Kati need to see this video!
You're welcome!
I questioned this situation previously, and got shamed. I was told she is reliable and I’m just jealous. So I really shut down fo a while.
Thank god someone finally said it! I've been arguing with people on his videos that this would have to be unethical, regardless of their not being a specific client relationship established (which was the argument most gave). Deception is an unethical regardless. And she also publicly made assessments to millions of people acting as an expert, despite her specialisation in research being on eating disorders - not ASPD or psychopathy.
You've 100% earned a subscriber in me and my respect for being just about the only person on UA-cam to recognise this problem and make a video, so thank you!
Although I am lumped together with master's level clinicians--I see your point ethically. So many I attended grad school with were very remiss about the very situations you are referring to.
Therapists like her are the reason i didnt seek help for my schizophrenia for so long.
Katie Morton doesn’t even specialize in Personality Disorders
I think a major piece we are missing here is that Jake knows a lot more than what is being disclosed in regards to video content. It is very likely that Jake knows that Kati is a therapist and that she was working in the capacity as a consultant for the video. She talks about ethics on her channel on a regular basis, and many things are cut and edited for these videos. I feel like a lot of people fail to realize that videos like these are for entertainment purposes and it is very clear from all aspects that Kati is an LMFT and not a clinical psychologist who specializes in psychopathy, sociopathy, and APD. And if you listen to or speak with a number of different clinicians, each one has a different perspective of these. Kati simply had a perspective based on the DSM. He has a perspective based on research and a deeper knowledge. Other clinicians have a perspective based on their own experiences. Bottom line, the Jake Paul series is a dramatic series meant for entertainment and not educational purposes. It is very clear from his content that this is the case. And Kati made a video after the fact addressing the fact that his video was edited to be quite dramatic and she went on to reveal her true perspective on sociopathy. This is a prime example of why we shouldn’t judge a book by its cover. There is more information on each page. We don’t have access to the pages and therefore, cannot make a determination on anything.
As someone who is studying to be a mental health counselor, I was appalled by her role in the series, and how mental health was dealt with the entire series, just based on what I've learned and discussions I've had surrounding ethics and informed consent in my classes. Thank you so much for touching on this.
You're welcome!
I was wondering how this undercover-therapy-thing should work or be ethical at all... I really appreciate this video and its explanatory intention. Thank you!
You're welcome!
Thank you for including your perception of what is missing and helpful from this series and information given during such. I appreciate your manor of delivery of information, it’s clearly to help educate and enlighten those of us who have viewed said series and what we may have been misinformed of. Thank you.
I am also glad that you reiterated that Kati had, indeed, mentioned that this area of psychology was not her area of expertise, she had even made a similar comment during her interview with Shane in episode 2. Which I think is important for the viewer to make note of, since in my mind it reduces the weight behind her words and opinions. It also highlights those moments where she misspeaks (calling the symptoms of ASPD os creepy and gross) or throws in a gut feeling about her observations, it makes those moments stand out more in my mind as biased, useless, and unnecessary for Shane’s video. Clearly, his idea for a series looking into sociopaths should have been made as a separate, more thought out, and with serious care. While this series about Jake should have just focused on Jake and his choices made as a UA-camr.
According to psychologist Kevin Dutton who wrote widely on the topic sociopaths are reprisented in the clergy. Here is his full list. The top ten jobs that attract sociopaths, according to author Kevin Dutton are:
CEO. ...
Lawyer. ...
Media. ...
Salesperson. ...
Surgeon. ...
Journalist. ...
Policeman. ...
Clergyman.
Another excellent analysis. I'd dispute the scope of practice limitation- she makes the claim that she does not work with people with the disorders that she is "commenting on," and I think scope of practice is one of the more troublesome legal/ethical terms out there.. does it mean specialized post-grad training, specific continuing education, or just the degree? ...scope of practice in a legal sense is often tied to what insurance companies require of a service provider, or what state law designates as appropriate for a given specialty (LMFT/LPC/LCSW, etc) .. But her master's degree program would have covered these disorders, and the LMFT scope of practice includes all of the disorders she has used interchangeably in California- so she is trained in at least a basic understanding of treatment and diagnosis for people who experience those categories of disorders. Enough not to say she's not here to diagnose while s̶m̶u̶g̶l̶y̶ (ok.. keep it objective keep it objective) carrying around a book about personality disorders. I think the stigma that arises out of these videos, and the unnaturally dramatic facial expressions Morton uses in her thumbnails are all a detriment to mental health destigmatization, and that breaks my heart. Thank you, Dr. Grande for sharing your analysis. (former clinical counselor educator, now higher ed counseling and student affairs educator.)
You're welcome! Thank you so much for your insight on the issue of scope of practice.
Watching all of this makes me wish we had licensure portability for LPCs.. I left mine in Ohio with no reason to renew back there, and here in California I would need to retake many of the courses I've been teaching for nearly a decade. "Practitioner scholar" is not practical for counselor education, except for a handful of states, or those who endeavor never to leave their state.
Thank you for this video. I'm in my first year of graduate school in counseling, just starting to dive into ethics, but I knew something felt questionable about this situation. If I remember correctly, they got consent from Jake after the "evaluation" had already occurred, which really isn't how consent works. The whole situation also has the potential to be damaging to Jake psychologically, with regards to trust. I really enjoy a lot of Kati Morton's videos, and looked up to her as a clinician. I hope she addresses this.
You're welcome!
Again thank you, this was exactly my concern. Her involvement and the way it was conducted felt highly inappropriate.
You're welcome!
This is certainly a special case, and I enjoy listening to your opinion and perspective on the situation regarding Kati and Shane's new video series.
I genuinely like the video, but it is dramatized and it's important to take much of what is stated with a grain of salt. I think Kati has good intentions, but because of the nature of those videos, it becomes sensationalized. I don't think the video implies that going undercover is a normal thing to do as a therapist, and even though the information people are getting about ASPD is not 100% factual, it opens up an important conversations and I'm sure a lot of people are learning more about it. (And some of them will do more research, for example ending up at your channel which I did.)
I'm deeply interested in ASPD as I find people with this disorder very fascinating, and I thought that I had it when I was younger (17-18) Turned out it was mostly apathy/cynicism from depression, and I've taken a personality disorder test profesionally and I didn't score high on anything.
I'm looking forward to future videos, Todd!
I'm so glad you enjoyed this video. Thank you!
Found you through all this Shane Dawson drama and I’m so excited to watch all your videos on BPD and learn more about something I was diagnosed with a couple of years ago and still don’t fully understand
i think she was definitely unethical. what she was doing was more or less research and one of the first things in research is that though the researcher may have a hypothesis, they should not do things in a biased manner. everyone has an opinion but on a researcher is not supposed to express it because it skews the opinions of others. just because someone does not think the way we think or process emotions the way we do does not mean we should call them "gross" or "creepy" or "icky"!
Also, she made a response to the hate that she received from the collab and got REALLY defensive instead of apologising. Many constructive criticisms were left on the video and she completely ignored them. Most of her videos are very opinionated, she did not even explain that there is a spectrum. Individuals with ASPD can feel love in the are lower in the spectrum... she made them out to be serial killers who feel nothing and care for nothing.
I recently looked at a video she did where she reviewed the tv show/book called "13 reasons why" she completely missed the point of the show. she was very negative and close-minded about it, did not see the bigger picture. Almost like she had preconceived notions.
Another topic this incident touches on is the importance of unconditional positive regard and similar boundary-based approaches as components of clinical professionalism and ethics.
Thank you so much for this. You put your case forward very clearly. As a registered Dramatherapist in the UK I had a high level of concern around the role boundaries, ethical practise, level of experience and transparency of the therapist. Of course we don’t know if Jake was in on the whole thing or not, but regardless of this, the programme was aired to a massive audience, some of whom may have misperception of ‘social paths’ and/or what therapy is, what a therapists code of ethics, boundaries and responsibilities are. This programme showed the viewer not just stereotypes of social paths but also of therapist, that they are sneaky, they are trying to get something out of you, which might put someone off of engaging in therapy. Also if you have no experience of therapy you make think all therapists behave like this or it is ok for a therapist to have unclear boundaries. I just hope a lot of people did research afterwards and found videos like yours to gain clarity of the situation x
I forgave Kati for the first video she appeared in, I merely blamed it on Shane's horror movie-esque editing. I didn't take it seriously. I've found Shane's series quite entertaining, but I really wish Kati hadn't joined in. Her information was very misleading and hyped Shane up the wrong way. It's all reflected really badly on her and she didn't even contribute much IMO. Then you see everyone's diagnosing themselves or others in the comment section based on her opinion (which she has said is not her professional opinion, but Shane certainly framed it that way). I know it's not to be taken too seriously and you can't believe everything someone says just because they seem to be an authority, Jake Paul clearly isn't a sociopath and he was never going to be revealed as one otherwise the series wouldn't exist, but there are a lot of kids watching and taking it all at face value. Yes we should be having more conversations about mental health, but we don't need people flinging accusations. I'm fairly certain Shane's intention was to combat baselessly accusing people of personality disorders, and I'm not sure yet if he's made it better or worse.
The line that really got me was Kati's comment that she felt sorry for Jake, therefore he must be manipulative. That was straight up paranoia. She's either acting or terribly biased against even a perceived case of ASPD. Maybe it's all staged and she had consent all along, but it still looks really bad. A therapist shouldn't be pulling stunts either way.
Kati Morton needs her license revoked. She is extremely unethical. Not just in this Shane Dawson series but also in her previous videos and social media profiles. She carries herself as a psychologist (when she is just a therapist), often diagnosing and making very broad statements about other disorders. She often uses the disclaimer “this is not my area of expertise” before making sometimes false statements or clearly opinionated statements about disorders. She also likes to throw the DSM around way to much as a reference to back up her claims.
Shannonlovesth Yes as a PhD Biopsychologist I have researched the DSM extensively. It is widely used and cited but has NO scientific credibility or reliability. Kati Morton has no background in research and just reiterates what she has been taught. With all the utube presentations she does and so called inexpensive text therapy how do vulnerable young people know that she really knows what she is talking about based on real patient experience?? I trust more Daniel Mackler who was a former therapist and really struggled with his experience with real clients and therapists.
Wonderful video. Thank you for providing an object and professional take on this. The sensationalization portrayed in Shane’s video is giving mental health professionals a bad name, in my opinion.
You're welcome!
Dr. Todd Grande Oh gosh, I’m honoured. Didn’t think you’d notice this haha. Keep doing good work, is all I can say. Currently a college student who wants to do good work in the medical field too.
Since most people on the cluster b spectrum, especially at the malignant end, will never be diagnosed, it is crucial that laypeople be educated about red flags & behaviors. This is incredibly hard to convey through the DSM or studies presented online. Regular people and former victims are demanding this information and there is incredible, high quality info from both clinicians and patients outside of the treatment room or scientific journals. Abuse survivor testimonials save lives of distraught victims seeking guidance. Kati’s purpose was participating in a supportive capacity as an informed outsider & friend to Shane. Like someone would weigh in with a quote in an article or profile outside of a clinical capacity. She disclosed all of this and it was consented by the subject being profiled.
Like like and triple like this video... As an LCSW I say nicely done sir.
Thank you so much!
Thanks for your objective thoughts on this issue!
You're welcome!
4:37 she probably got that information from buzzfeed.
Also, *I would like to know what are your opinions on the betterhelp issue at the moment?*
I see that several subscribers have requested this. I will look into it and make a video if I find anything of interest. Thank you!
i’m glad i stumbled across your channel even if it happened to be due to controversy in the community. i’m excited to explore your channel further.
Thank you so much!
I was so excited to see you made this video! I'm a new subscriber and really appreciate the work you put into your videos. Listening to you on the way to class has been a great way for me to sort of freshen up my readings. I feel like we learn so much in such a short time, so your videos have really helped. As a clinical sw student, AND huge Shane Dawson fan, I have gently expressed the exact same concerns in comments about this. Someone said I was way off base because I'm "just an intern". Now, I can say the real experts agree!
Thank you for those kind words -
she makes so many inflammatory statements and vast generalizations, her being involved with this series was such a terrible mistake :^/
It seemed extremely unethical to me.
Well spoken Dr. Grande 👍
Thank you!
I like Shane but I had a lot of issues with this whole thing. Thank you for presenting exactly the issues I was feeling about it and couldn't find the words to explain. "Therapy is not an undercover operation". You hit the nail on the head.
I’m an LPC and have been in the field for over 10 years. I love your channel and agree with your commentary on this topic. It saddens me that those videos may have painted the mental health field in a negative light. Thank you for your input.
I was subscribed to her for a short while some months ago. I had to unsubscribe again after having followed her for a short while, I don’t remember exactly why though, but something about her approach made me uncomfortable. I have been following the Shane Series from the sidelines, but I have not watched it, I feel like the whole thing is kind of off.
In a way it was as people say, a “mistake” that she participated in this series, but at the same time her doing that and then her subsequent response to criticism concerning her participation and the things she said, is something I feel like it’s good to know and for people to see and be aware of.
I feel bad for her loyal fans who have gained something from her videos and are therefore now supporting her and enabling her in this, because she is encouraging them to do that by liking their comments. I feel like she’s handling this whole thing extremely irresponsibly, by taking the constructive criticisms as an attack on her as a person.
This video is great, as was the previous one on this issue, will be subscribing! Professionalism is awesome and important.
Victims and those vulnerable to abuse absolutely deserve information outside of clinical settings. Dependency on authorities to interpret dangerous situations and people should not be the point of therapy.
No one deserves a PUBLIC DIAGNOSIS. Unless they are deceased and their families have signed them over to science, no psychiatrist should diagnose anyone in front of any public. I have been subscribed to Kati and I've even told my sister to follow her. Kati is not a doctor and perhaps that's why she does not think that there's a confidentiality involved, but then she shouldn't be diagnosing whoever in public, for monetary gain no less! My psychiatrist even advised me that I do not need to disclose my diagnosis to anyone. It will remain confidential unless I decide it is not, which I have. But no one deserves their illness to be mocked. Whether or not Jake Paul is a sociopath, he can discuss that with his psychiatrist. Even Trump, the question of senility must be discussed with his psychiatrist. The psychiatrist may initiate the meeting, but privately. Not on TV, not on any social platform. This concept of going undercover only works on criminals because, criminals ALREADY KNOW that they outside the law and the undercover operative is merely there to call them out. The mental health sufferer MAY NOT know and COULD NOT self-diagnose, even if and when they have read the entire dsm, that they are sufferers. And also? Mental illness is not a crime! There are crimes committed by the mentally ill but even then, you have to work out if their symptoms are what led to the crime and not just poverty, abuse, etc. Listen, I don't like Jake Paul as a youtube content creator but Jake Paul as a private person? I have nothing against the man. And if he does suffer from mental illness, any therapist would know that public shaming is never the way to go if the goal is to rehabilitate and not get views and ad revenue. The very things that Jake Paul is doing.
Even if she is an LCSW, she would have to provide INFORMED consent.
I’m a research assistant as part of a developmental disabilities team and found her poor knowledge of the research area very concerning - even just basic info such as the prevalence of sociopathy and likely prognosis. The lack of informed consent is also a huge breach imo and may cause backlash for the mental health community.
Hello, Dr. Grande! I'm a social worker also making mental health videos on UA-cam. I came across your videos recently and I wanted to say thank you for your videos on this platforms. It can be difficult receiving backlash that comes with commenting on "trending" topics, which leads to swarm of brash negative comments on your professionalism or comments. I experienced this recently as well due to my video I made on this series. I believe that it is important to spread awareness and advocacy regarding ethics of our field! Sorry this was so long, but thank you for your non-biased commentary - I agree with you completely and stand with you!
Thank you so much!
They probably didn’t care about how ethical it was because it was Jake Paul.
It is a shame that you you have a relatively low viewer count and subscriber. While I am sure my own opinions about the whole kati morton/betterhelp topic is a strong factor, I am really enjoying your videos and your channel as a whole. You earned my subscription :) Really hope your channel gets bigger
Thank you so much!
Thank you for making these videos
You're welcome!
I hope Kati sees this, and watches it until the end. She dismissed all concerns as "bullies" and "haters" harassing her. It's a very serious and chilling issue.
Wow this is so unethical!! She could lose her license over this.
So why hasn't someone tagged her license? Why hasn't she been reported to the Department of Professional Regulation?
I've found these really helpful. When she said her specialty was Eating Disorders and Depression (I think that was the other one) and not Sociopathy I was honestly a little taken aback. When Shane went to her she should have turned down the offer all together or referred him to someone that knew it better.
Question - Jake Paul's brother did a video and said he's on the Sociopathic scale, but not a sociopath. Is that a thing? Are some people technically sociopaths but just not "as bad" as others... and I guess that is more is there an ASPD scale?
Sociopathy is on a continuum, so different individuals could experience symptoms to varying degrees. ASPD theoretically would be on a continuum as well, but diagnostically, it is either present or absent (categorical).
She technically just observed the individual and it was agreed upon that a therapist could asses him no limits, while I do admit that it's pretty shady to be an undercover therapist but I feel like Jake wouldn't do anything crazy like file lawsuit and another thing is that Kati was really there with a rile of a friend more then a therapist so basically it's like bringing a smart friend to check something. Still I don't agree with this kind of action as it is a risky move and I think it could be done in a safer way.
Wow! Being a fan of her, I just found out this.
I’m really coming to appreciate your channel I hope more people do too. It would be very interesting to see your/scientific views regarding the Better Help service that Shane Dawson was originally promoting in the series regarding Sociopaths/Jake Paul. Thank you for great content.
You're welcome! I am hoping to produce a video about Betterhelp soon.
Oh brilliant, can't wait!
I appreciate your mannerism in this video. Thank you for this well informed and well mannered video.
You are quite welcome!
She didn't appear to be very knowledgeable in this particular field, constantly reading from books. Her advice and information was incredibly unethical in the way it was presented, that it almost makes her appear unprofessional and unqualified. I have dealt with numerous clinician's in my life, none of which had acted in the way that she did in those videos. Unfortunately she made the wrong call by being apart of these videos in the way she did.
I watched the series because it came to my attention that the Paul brothers were targeting children as their viewing audience and creating inappropriate content. As a parent, I wanted to know what that was and who these people are, what they are about without having to sit through all of their videos, so I could talk to my own children about it. My kids do not watch their videos but other kids around them have and make reference to them. I find Shane's video series to be useful in this context.
My understanding of Kati's involvement is that earlier in the series Shane asked Kati if Logan or Jake could be dangerous and was apprehensive about walking into this situation because people in the Paul videos had been hit, spit on, etc. She agreed to observe to advise him to if he was in danger. But I agree that the actual video of the actual confrontation was edited to make her look creepy hanging out behind the scenes and she was feeding him questions. So is this a cross over between being a friend and her profession? I agree, that these videos could misrepresent professional therapists in a negative light. Thank you for making this video clarifying ethics.
im being essentially stalked by my family under the guise of therapy. theyre trying to steal my inheritance. what can i do?
I can 100% guarantee he knew everything beforehand. I cannot see Kati doing that. She was much more unprofessional when she gave an opinion video on Logan Paul after his suicide forest video fallout. I thought her negative opinion of him was highly unprofessional. Therapists should remain neutral on opinions of behaviours.
actually, she personally said (in the sec 6:36), (idk if she was joking) "this is not my speciality, I'm just saying, I work with eating disorders and self-injury", I'm not sure if that is relevant (idk a lot of these topics, as you can see) but that was a loud thing for me.
Dr Grande, thank you for your concise analysis! In regards to Jake Paul, is 'sociopath' the accurate ballpark for assessment or does this seem like NPD?
Do you have any books or online pdfs you can recommend that would give me a better understanding of sociopathy
You're so right with what you're saying!
Very interesting. I would be very interested in knowing the opinion from a professional that is equipped to asses Katie appropriate or inappropriate behavior in this case. I think that an assessment of any professional should be with all the necessary information available to conclude an accurate assessment not just what one has on hand. Not responsible to anyone to do so otherwise.
Thank you for keeping this proffesional!
You're welcome!
I think that this is a lot of technical, text stuff. The thing is that Katie was not diagnosing, treating or even directly analyzing Jake; she was not interviewing him and her interactions were minimal. Her client, if she had one, was the person consulting her: Shane. He is the one asking her questions and so forth for his own inner search of sorts; she was just an observer of Shane's object of interest and she was helping him sort out his thing. Anyway; I think that Katie is a high person and she may have had reasons for participating; social media is becoming a big thing affecting many people, especially young people and Katie spoke publicly and decried earlier this year about Logan's filming the remains of a person who had committed suicide. She is a high soul and she probably gave some thought to this, I'm sure with good motives and reasons. Did she have to introduce herself by what she does for a living while present? I'm not sure, especially if she is not working directly with him but just observing.
This series has been a weird witch-hunt which has put people who genuinely have ASPD at risk.
Watch her other videos. Also watch her apology video.
Please don't forget that all of that serie have a entretainment underline, And all of them have a role, a persona to play in this performance.