All of Circe AND Underworld with Mortius are BOTH available over on our Patreons! Done For + The Underworld + Monster, on my Patreon - www.patreon.com/collection/562639?view=expanded There Are Other Ways + No Longer You, on Motius' Patreon - www.patreon.com/collection/572718?view=expanded
Fun fact: As I found out recently, there's a running joke BTS that Hermes' actor is the real Hermes who broke into Jay's house and demanded to be in the musical (or he would destroy Jay's keyboard)
Also, Circe is his ex. They broke up because Hermes might as well have "YOLO" as his motto, and Circe took everything super seriously. However, their relationship wasn't one of love. It was purely because both were good in bed. So Hermes is chaotic, helping family, and pranking an ex-girlfriend all in one.
That and he just kinda does that (tho it's also most likely because Athena asked him too. Her piano is heard in this song) he always kind of just shows up helps and watches the show. He doesn't give conditions or challenges because when he shows up it's because they are already in one and needed a little help. With him being well a messenger who acts for the gods aswell as just enjoying the show.
I always saw it as a combo of nepotism and Hermes fullfilling some of his godly duties. Hermes is also the god of travelers. It would be well within his domain to help a group of soldiers traveling home.
Fun fact the way that hermes is drawn you basically never see his eyes except a rare few times and fans interpreted it that way because "the eyes show the truth of your soul" kinda why most animatics with this hermes have his eyes always covered
Funny tidbit: Hermes is actually Odysseus' great-grandfather as well as Circe's ex-boyfriend, which is why he's helping him here, when he says "someone who's not afraid to send a message".
I like to think that while Odysseus was well aware he was speaking to a god, he only figured out who it was at the "someone who's not afraid to... send a message." 😆
@nathanroy4000 Small addition. She gave the potion to scylla because the dude (can't bother remembering his name) asked Circe for a love potion to give Scylla because she wasn't interested lmao RIP Scylla regardless
23:43. Fun fact about Greek mythology: Zeus actually shows up three times in Herakles’ family tree. Not only is he the dude’s father, but he’s also his great great grandfather, and, since Herakles is descended from Io, also his ancestor about 12 generations back.
So in other words if you want a extremely powerful demigod you need to “plan” it out so that the godly genes are in such abundance for it to be more powerful than other demigods?!
I love Odysseus' little "ah" when Hermes tells him the name of the flower, it's like when a kid tells you something weird and you have to pretend that you think it's cool. (Also, I don't think he says it as often as he used to, but Jorge has said repeatedly that he wanted to make a musical that sounds like a video game, so if you're hearing something that sounds like a reference to a video game, it probably is.)
@@songhuy8908zeus appears 3 times in heracleses ancestry..... He married his sister after r4ping her, and then cheat on her with other sisters, pretty sure he impregnated one of his daughters..... Blood relations never prevented any flirting or worse from greek gods
I could be very, very wrong but I thought the DEATH motif (different from danger) is when someone is chanting a name, because that literally happens when someone’s gonna die, in ruthlessness, Polyphemus, Odysseus, and I believe another I’m forgetting.
Casper still being salty about Polites death is amusing to me for some reason, but anyways- A detail I like about Wouldn’t You Like is Hermes’s laugh. In MY OPINION, my opinion folks, it sounds a lot like birds; like when they flutter around in trees close to you and their calls.
Hermes is a god of travel and other stuff so makes sense that he would take a liking to mortals all the time. Also Odysseus is Hermes Great-Grandson so think of it also as a older family member giving a younger one a helping hands, and as Mortius said he’s in for the vibes and also is the Greek trickster god he loves chaos!
The fact that not many ppl know that Hermes is Odysseus’s great grandfather is always fascinating to me. Cuz like this moment with Ody and Hermes isn’t him being flirtatious or having hidden agendas, it’s Hermes genuinely wanting to help his great grandson out while also sticking it to his ex Circe.
Tbf, it CAN still very much be flirty, like this is a Greek God we're talking about, flirting with your grandkids isn't exactly a big deal to them, they've done much more to much closer relations.
I would say Hermes is being coy not flirty and he sounds amused by the situation he has been called in to assist with . I also think the song hints that he has been sent by Athena since we hear her voice during part of the song. She is who sent him , he's not helping due to familial loyalty.
@@breannacarlisle5441maybe but also Hermes is the God of Tricksters so he is probably just doing it for shits and Giggles, also I can’t remember but I think in Greek myth Hermes isn’t sent by Athena, he’s just out here vibing and helping mortals defeat minor gods cause he can
It could still be flirty. Zeus had Hercules with his own great grandaughter and Greek gods are not even close to being straight and are known for incest so it could be Hermes being flirtatious, it could be Hermes sticking it to his ex Circe, it could be him genuinely wanting to help his great grandson, or it could be combination of all three.
Interesting thing about Odysseus being a descendant of Hermes is in what Hermes is the god of. He mainly gets revered as the god of messages, travel and herding, but he also has play over oration, cunning and wit. Trickery is pretty much all in his wheelhouse, even utilizing that aspect of him as an infant to secure him and his mothers status with Olympus and to take up the role of messenger of the gods. And whenever we see Odysseus actually having a win its usually through cunning and wit, the exact traits passed down from Hermes. Basically Odysseus should have just set up with Hermes as his patron god from the start cuz they honestly would have the better understanding of one another and would play to eachother much much better.
You guys are going to flip out if you're going with Anniflamma's animatics for "Done For" and "There are Other Ways" because she absolutely nailed the visuals, especially with the way she portrays Circe.
Troy Doherty (Hermes) has embraced the Hermes persona to the point that he makes videos as Hermes on his own Tik Tok, not just for Epic. 😂 Edit: I paused and commented this IMMEDIATELY before Mortius mentioned it.
I almost did the same with the "wait, puppeteer = strings?" thing but then I told myself to wait until the end of the video to hear if they talked about it.
@@aniheartsong5102 Jorge actually posted a video with that short right after the cyclops saga came out saying that he purposefully labeled that lyric as Polites to make people think Polites would at least live through Polyphemus just so it was even more devastating.
I shared Herme's being a somewhat-great-great-grandfather because I totally picture him patting Odysseus on the head and sneaking him gifts like a grandparent spoiling their grandkids.
To be fair, some people also say "Hermes is Odysseus Great-Grandfather" in a "This is probably part of why he helps Odysseus out" sort of way, at least I do
23:48 I feel like if it’s gods it’s fine. Oedipus marrying his mom was seen as part of a horrific prophecy he accidentally fulfilled, so there does seem to be a negative connotation on the mortal side.
@@dragonstouch1042Not really. Parent and child is looked down upon, but pretty much everything else is on the table. Zeus and Hera are siblings, for example. A lot of the gods are both siblings and lovers, in fact. Also super common to have an aunt/uncle with their niece/nephew.
Yeah, the Greeks were freaked out by the Pharaos marrying their sisters and such. God's are gods they do not have blood or any of the things, like morals, that would make it a problem, but that incest in humans leads to issues "and is punished by the gods" was known thoughout most of human history. Would not be a problem here, given it's with a god, but human on human was a taboo
It’s cool seeing you guys mention Jonathan Young, Caleb Hyles, Troy, etc because I’ve been following all of them for years. It’s just nice getting to see different areas I follow intersect
So true I love wouldn’t you like. Although I found a hour long version of dangerous and I watched the entire thing with out getting bored. It was just like two of jays shorts put on repeat what is wrong with me
To answer the question "Why would you see disco elements in a greek-": In The Lightning Thief Musical, the underworld song D.O.A. is disco because disco is dead. Also, DOA = Dead On Arrival I really recommend reacting to The Lightning Thief Musical
Going off of the fact that Hermes often gifts heroes what they need to succeed, I remember how Mortius was going all crazy about how Odysseus just accepted all the gifts that were thrown into his path. In Greek mythology, it was considered rude to deny gifts from the lowest guest to the gods. There are myths where people with poor hospitality will literally get the wrath of the gods, or those with good hospitality would be allowed to avoid some kind of catastrophe. Just thought you might like to know, so here you are.
Nope, that's something Madeline Miller made up for her novel and it somehow became so popular people think its mythology canon. There is no myth and no mention in either the Illiad or the Odyssey where Circe and Hermes mention each other, let alone have history of a relationship.
How many other people realised that in this song, hermes is a literal wing-man for odysseus. "I help you conquer her" is clearly meant more than just defeating her in battle.
Which is kinda a trap, cause interest in her would have killed ody the key to win her over is respecting women and not touching even when she invited it
Hermes just brings all the good vibes. After dealing with an ENRAGED POSEIDON, and now Circe turning what remains of Odysseus' "600 Men" (minus Eurylochus) into pigs, Hermes' good vibes is something we need. at least there is no double-edged sword with Hermes. Homeboy just wants to lend a hand to his great, great, grandson.
About the fact that Hermes and Ody are related (dont worry, im not gonna make it weird), it definitely explains the trickster part of his personality! The reason why hermes is so chill with Ody specifically is because thats his dude. Part of him is in Odysseus, and he feels inclined to help him. Odysseus was the one to come up the Trojan horse (at least in some translations). He uses the nobody trick, and later in the saga, he goes to Cirice with moly, and at first is playing dumb about what she did. Its fun to think of Hermes as that one guy from you family that shows up to teach you how to cheat the system, and dootes heavily on Odysseus.
Casper I'm surprised you didn't pick up on the fact that there were two voices singing the " wouldn't you like a taste of the power" line . One was Hermes and the other is the person who voices Athena. Nothing has been confirmed , but I think your theory that Athena has been watching and that has been signified by the piano in previous songs is correct and that hearing her voice here is a hint that she is trying to indirectly help Odysseus and that she sent Hermes.
Well I was told that Gods can summon choirs at will so I just assumed that was the case here - But I agree with you, Athena theory definitely gets reinforced by the fact the she sings in this! That's such a dope detail! :)
@@CFEntertains Yeah the invisible choirs the Gods can summon does make the possible intention more ambiguous. Some the singers who have more prominent parts also lended their voices for minor no name parts like crew members . I just checked what artists are listed on "Wouldn't you like"and Athena's actor is not listed by name it just lists Troy , Jorge, and 'cast of epic' but it seems suspicious. If it's not intentional it does seem like a missed opportunity especially considering how a piano, Athena's instrument, always seems to be played right before or when Odysseus is facing off against the bad guy in previous sagas.
@@CFEntertains I believe when it lists "Epic Ensemble" as the choir is being used, it is any of the prior voices singing that are not currently being focused on. I believe Luke Holt, Zues, is in either/both "Full Speed Ahead" and/or "Luck Runs Out" but isn't credited as a solo voice since in that instant he is not playing Zues but just a man of the crew. If we are hearing other gods' voices it really could just be them being in the choir not their role. On a side note, this could just be old info that I am recalling from Jorge's TikToks and not really canon to the musical anymore. I do remember seeing a 4 person song snippet with Jorge, Armando, Luke, and a fourth I cannot recall with Luke having either "crew" or "Elpenor" above him.
@@asuna9243 You're probably thinking of the old snippet for "Storm" and the line "An Island in the Sky", in which Luke is playing Elpenor and the fourth guy, Ayron Alexander, is playing Perimedes
Jay posted a clip a while ago of an older version of "Puppeteer" with Teagan (Athena) as Circe, and the song sounds so different, and not just because of Teagan. Armando (Eurylochus) has greatly improved in his confidence in the rap part. There are a lot of clips of older versions of the songs and it's mind-blowing how much changed.
There exists a bunch of shorts of Hermes songs where the performer is just singing to the camera in character and it is so damn disco it's great. The man is just absolute boogie.
Mortius and Casper, if you guys haven't seen it by now, Caleb Hyles did do an Epic the Musical cover, but unfortunately it wasn't with Jonathan but at least it was with Annapantsu, who I believe is the only person I know that can match Athena's vocals perfectly! Which is why Caleb and Anna did Warrior of the Mind
i mean. Oedipus went out of his way to avoid marrying his mother, accidentally did anyway, and gouged his eyes out when he found out. so that is at least the line
That was an issue, cause they both where human, it does not matter for the gods and zeus can be an ancestor of heracleus 3 times over, but human on human incest that's icky because of biethdefects and the gods punish it as hypocrits. This, with Hermes being removed more then once, no one would care, gods have different genetics and rules anyways.... Pretty sure zeus impregnated at least one of his daughters
@@SingingSealRiana okay, i'm not actually complaining about Hermes/Odysseus being shipped, it's just annoys me when people use Oedipus as an example of "incest was okay in ancient greece" when for him specifically it was very bad and very not okay
Right now I'm at about 18 minutes in. I know that you guys haven't touched on it yet but just in case you guys didn't throw out the rest of this video, that long string of yelling at the end that cord. That was Jay. It's supposed to be Odysseus like powering up after eating the plant. A lot of people tend to think that that was Hermes it's not Hermes, it's just Odysseus being empowered with the plant
Hermes is also Odysseus' great grandfather! so helping him at this moment doesn't nessecarily come out of the blue. he may have been following along for a while or at least checking in from time to time. it's not unreasonable to assume he already knows how much influence Athena has exerted on Odysseus
@@dragonsweat256I feel like if other gods are implied to be a part of the story, it's not their voice that's used, but their instruments. Jorge doesn't have an infinite amount of vocalists, so I think it makes sense for him to reuse ones who's character isn't here for a while. And it may just be me, but I don't hear Athena's theme, nor her instrument in the background, so I doubt she asked Hermes to help.
Hermes: Messenger of The Gods and God of Messengers, currency, hospice, and healing. Fun Fact: When King Leonidas killed the Persian messenger, the other King at the time was scared shitless because messengers are supremely protected by laws above Man. He sent two messengers to Xerxies for the sole intent to sacrifice themselves in recompense to avoid war. Xerxes killed them and went to war anyway. That's how sacred messengers were, BANDITS did not mess with them!
Thank you, Mortius, for sharing the *HERMES* ~and Jay~ tiktok series and Troy's other Hermes material, even if it is off screen. If you want to share those reactions here, I'd love to see them.
I like to think that the background singers aren't just random voices summoned because Hermes is a god, but instead that he is moving so fast that he can legit just harmonize with himself
Just getting it out now, I came up with the names Drug grampa Hades and Troy Hades. Edit: Also I came up with the _ Hades to signify how many people were watching the premiere at the time.
17:23 I’m hella late but I know for my own music I’ve been obsessed with that downward chord progression. And apparently it has roots in flamenco music, it’s called the “Andalusian cadence”. It’s great in flamenco applications but I think it can be really dramatic and “heartthrobby” 😂 when slowed down
One thing I think is often forgotten is also that Hermes is the Greek god of mischief/trickster god. He’s essentially the Ancient Greek Loki, which explains why he’s so playful.
When you saw Hermes' feet in the Pupeteer animatic, you also get a hint of those plucked harp notes. It's a musical hint that Hermes is watching the interaction between Odysseus and Eurylochus. That's why he commented on Odysseus' speech.
This is one of my top songs, and I do love this artwork..... however I will admit that I love the design of Hermes from WolfytheWitch. I don't know what it is but their design just nails Hermes Trickster God of Travelers. Like I can SEE that design in the middle of the woods being a mysterious traveler. While This Hermes just hits more Messenger of the Gods and God of Trade. It's A GOOD Design, my heart was just taken by another.
Fun fact: The end with the ‘whoas’ over the last verse is actually Odysseus tripping on acid and feeling invincible, taking a leaf from Hermes’s book and starting to riff. I pretty sure Jay had to clarify it was him singing that, not Troy- I mean the real Hermes
Someone once proposed an Epic cover album consisting of UA-camrs and lesser-known singers. Caleb was who they suggested for Odysseus, and Jonathan Young was their pick for Zeus. However, I think this was before the Ocean Saga came out, so I could totally see him for Poseidon instead.
I don't know if anyone else has mentioned it, but Wouldn't You Like has a mellow vibe that gives the feeling of a drug trip. While this might just be me it could be playing into the root/drug Hermes is getting Odysseus to eat.
Hermes is my _favorite_ EPIC character after Polites He's so funky, so like, _lively_ & yeah, i kinda get disco vibes too This song is so fun, its in my top 10 at least
20:44 - The original demos of all of the songs were all just performed by Jorge essentially until he started casting the roles through tiktok lol. Save he had Teagan (Athena) early, as a frlend of his I believe and she demoed Athena and Circe's parts
Important context to know is that Odysseus is the the great grandson of Hermes (from his mother's side of the family). So Hermes has even less reason to expect something in return from Odysseus since the favor is for family.
Eyyyy it's my favourite song so far and (probably) my favourite animatic for it! Odysseus getting incessantly flirted at and also fed psychedelics by his great-grandpa will never get old :D
Im here re watching Mort's playlist for these reactions bc i adore you both so much. This is my favorite song of the saga and maybe the whole musical. I will die happy when Mortius covers this
Hermes is also the god of thieves (which you know from pjo) and I like to connect him to Loki in the agent of chaos trickster vibe he has throughout Greek mythology
Yeaaahhhh it makes me laugh when people say it's weird to interpret it as Hermes flirting because well... like you said, this IS Greek mythology where basically nothing is off limits 😂
All of Circe AND Underworld with Mortius are BOTH available over on our Patreons!
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this is the FULL anamatic for there is other ways ua-cam.com/video/QEG4Zd87r5A/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
and her annamatic for done for is cool to
Hermes: So I have this cool plant-
Odysseus: (already eating it) Wow~
Hermes just gave his grandson some drugs and told him to go fight the nearest girl.
Fun fact: As I found out recently, there's a running joke BTS that Hermes' actor is the real Hermes who broke into Jay's house and demanded to be in the musical (or he would destroy Jay's keyboard)
That is so fun
Also, he flirts with him😅
Agressivly
I always connected “Hermes is Odysseus’ great grandfather” to him helping without asking for anything in return. Olympian nepotism
"Olympian nepotism" HHAHAHAHAHAHA
Also, Circe is his ex. They broke up because Hermes might as well have "YOLO" as his motto, and Circe took everything super seriously. However, their relationship wasn't one of love. It was purely because both were good in bed. So Hermes is chaotic, helping family, and pranking an ex-girlfriend all in one.
That and he just kinda does that (tho it's also most likely because Athena asked him too. Her piano is heard in this song) he always kind of just shows up helps and watches the show. He doesn't give conditions or challenges because when he shows up it's because they are already in one and needed a little help. With him being well a messenger who acts for the gods aswell as just enjoying the show.
I always saw it as a combo of nepotism and Hermes fullfilling some of his godly duties. Hermes is also the god of travelers. It would be well within his domain to help a group of soldiers traveling home.
Divine Nepotism, not intervention.
Fun fact, likely the reason Hermes is represented by that plucked string instrument is because he's the inventor of the lyre in myth.
Yep, and gifted it to Apollo if I remember right. I like how the strings get synthesized when the song starts moving, though.
@@Goomsieshe gifted it to Apollo as an apology for stealing his cattle iirc. I love how it gets synthesized too. It's such a fun combo of sounds.
Fun fact the way that hermes is drawn you basically never see his eyes except a rare few times and fans interpreted it that way because "the eyes show the truth of your soul" kinda why most animatics with this hermes have his eyes always covered
Oh I thought it was because of the voice actor? Yk he has this glasses he keeps wearing so animators made Hermes like that
@@kabartmatozu3791 could be that too musicals have alot of different enterpretations especially with fan animatics
I love that detail! My pfp is my version of Hermes lmao I gave him a snake themed masquerade mask :)
@@zexalplays yep you are right but loved your perspective!
Ohhh ima make mine have shiny black eyes so it can play into the “monster” theme
Hermes (basically):
Hey kid, ya wanna try some drugs :3?
Odysseus’ mother: Grandfather! Stop giving him drugs!
Doing drugs with great grand son
Family bonding, like fr my grandpa once told me he knew a guy who still supplies him😭😭😭
I would like but your at 420
Hermes flirting with his Great Grandson is the most Hermes thing ever, and I love it.
Given zeus is 3 times in heracleses ancestry
Funny tidbit:
Hermes is actually Odysseus' great-grandfather as well as Circe's ex-boyfriend, which is why he's helping him here, when he says "someone who's not afraid to send a message".
I believe ex-boyfriend thing is just happened in the novel Circe but not the Greek Mythology?
@@Myc-bh6ux yeah she was into a dude that fell for scylla instead so she fed scylla the potion that made her a monster.
@@Myc-bh6ux You might be right there. Not sure where the author got that info from.
I like to think that while Odysseus was well aware he was speaking to a god, he only figured out who it was at the "someone who's not afraid to... send a message." 😆
@nathanroy4000 Small addition. She gave the potion to scylla because the dude (can't bother remembering his name) asked Circe for a love potion to give Scylla because she wasn't interested lmao RIP Scylla regardless
the entirety of the song is just Hermes convincing Odysseus to take drugs 😭
nah imagine your great grandpa dances with you while trying to sell you drugs
@@blueberrylover29 that sounds fire, your great grandpa is a ghost-crackhead
Canon Odysseus: “Hermes?”
Fandom Odysseus: “Grandpa?! Tf r u doing here?!”
I mean... Kinda. It's canon in greek mythology that Hermes is his great grandfather
@@boomgirlbucko true but I don’t know if swearing was invented at the time:>
@@NalaTheRaptorSwearing has probably been a thing since language happened. Maybe not "F--k" but y'know
@@NalaTheRaptorI mean even with the swear it kinda is cannon , since he IS his great grandpa
@@NalaTheRaptor it would've been. Just not in english considering they are... Greek.
23:43. Fun fact about Greek mythology: Zeus actually shows up three times in Herakles’ family tree. Not only is he the dude’s father, but he’s also his great great grandfather, and, since Herakles is descended from Io, also his ancestor about 12 generations back.
Hell yeah, that is how ya do it 😅
Yes I now hate myself but I hate Zeus more
That’s Zeus for ya.
zeus moment
So in other words if you want a extremely powerful demigod you need to “plan” it out so that the godly genes are in such abundance for it to be more powerful than other demigods?!
@@Janky03 he got his superspecial powers by boob-nomming Hera.
We arent forgetting wet hades.
I love Odysseus' little "ah" when Hermes tells him the name of the flower, it's like when a kid tells you something weird and you have to pretend that you think it's cool. (Also, I don't think he says it as often as he used to, but Jorge has said repeatedly that he wanted to make a musical that sounds like a video game, so if you're hearing something that sounds like a reference to a video game, it probably is.)
This song, in short... is a gremlin god giving his grandson a hallucinagenic to fight a witch.
All: Odysseus's grandfather :D
Me: Seeing how clearly Ermes flirts with Odysseus
@@boceto0w0My man smooched Ody like 2 times 😭 Hermes that's your great grandson you can't do that-
@@songhuy8908zeus appears 3 times in heracleses ancestry..... He married his sister after r4ping her, and then cheat on her with other sisters, pretty sure he impregnated one of his daughters..... Blood relations never prevented any flirting or worse from greek gods
Also Hermes being flirty with his great grandson, in ye old Greek mythology times, just feels very _Hermes_
Very much on brand
I'm so glad he found the danger motif!!
Except Mortius told him the wrong notes and had to later go back and correct them both on it XD
…help I can’t find it and I’m now convinced it didn’t happen
@@ShadowFox1412 Yeah, I commented this based on the clip from the intro
I could be very, very wrong but I thought the DEATH motif (different from danger) is when someone is chanting a name, because that literally happens when someone’s gonna die, in ruthlessness, Polyphemus, Odysseus, and I believe another I’m forgetting.
@@SleepyHollowKnight Wait this actually makes sense so far holy shit. But maybe it could just be like a "boss battle" intro
Casper still being salty about Polites death is amusing to me for some reason, but anyways-
A detail I like about Wouldn’t You Like is Hermes’s laugh. In MY OPINION, my opinion folks, it sounds a lot like birds; like when they flutter around in trees close to you and their calls.
Hermes is a god of travel and other stuff so makes sense that he would take a liking to mortals all the time. Also Odysseus is Hermes Great-Grandson so think of it also as a older family member giving a younger one a helping hands, and as Mortius said he’s in for the vibes and also is the Greek trickster god he loves chaos!
I mean, he is also literally the god of tricksters and thieves!
@@SeriouslyWhoDidThis yeah so he’s just here to be silly and wacky
The fact that not many ppl know that Hermes is Odysseus’s great grandfather is always fascinating to me. Cuz like this moment with Ody and Hermes isn’t him being flirtatious or having hidden agendas, it’s Hermes genuinely wanting to help his great grandson out while also sticking it to his ex Circe.
Tbf, it CAN still very much be flirty, like this is a Greek God we're talking about, flirting with your grandkids isn't exactly a big deal to them, they've done much more to much closer relations.
I would say Hermes is being coy not flirty and he sounds amused by the situation he has been called in to assist with . I also think the song hints that he has been sent by Athena since we hear her voice during part of the song. She is who sent him , he's not helping due to familial loyalty.
@@breannacarlisle5441maybe but also Hermes is the God of Tricksters so he is probably just doing it for shits and Giggles, also I can’t remember but I think in Greek myth Hermes isn’t sent by Athena, he’s just out here vibing and helping mortals defeat minor gods cause he can
@@mattmayhem4377 Like the guy above said, he's also just a fan of Ody's trickstering ways as his grandson.
It could still be flirty. Zeus had Hercules with his own great grandaughter and Greek gods are not even close to being straight and are known for incest so it could be Hermes being flirtatious, it could be Hermes sticking it to his ex Circe, it could be him genuinely wanting to help his great grandson, or it could be combination of all three.
Interesting thing about Odysseus being a descendant of Hermes is in what Hermes is the god of. He mainly gets revered as the god of messages, travel and herding, but he also has play over oration, cunning and wit. Trickery is pretty much all in his wheelhouse, even utilizing that aspect of him as an infant to secure him and his mothers status with Olympus and to take up the role of messenger of the gods. And whenever we see Odysseus actually having a win its usually through cunning and wit, the exact traits passed down from Hermes.
Basically Odysseus should have just set up with Hermes as his patron god from the start cuz they honestly would have the better understanding of one another and would play to eachother much much better.
Tell me why I thought it said “cvnting” instead of cunning and it made so much sense as well, bc Hermes is, in fact, kind of a cvnt
Also his audacity he definitely inherited the audacity to f with gods, from hermes, antagonise apollo as a toddler ... Beside the trickery
When I listened to this saga, my brain immediately went “wait the two new characters in this saga both have a British accent” and I laughed so hard
You guys are going to flip out if you're going with Anniflamma's animatics for "Done For" and "There are Other Ways" because she absolutely nailed the visuals, especially with the way she portrays Circe.
This^^
I hope they do react to it :)
WINGED SHOE HADES LETS GOOOOO
At least it fits both are astonishing helpful or at least not confrontational and going out of their way to fuck people over.
Troy Doherty (Hermes) has embraced the Hermes persona to the point that he makes videos as Hermes on his own Tik Tok, not just for Epic. 😂
Edit: I paused and commented this IMMEDIATELY before Mortius mentioned it.
I almost did the same with the "wait, puppeteer = strings?" thing but then I told myself to wait until the end of the video to hear if they talked about it.
@@radicaledward84 I always pause to comment because I have brain damage, and if I wait to comment, I'll forget.
found out recently that although polites dies HE DIES 3 SAGAS AFTER THE CYCLOPS SAGA SO WE COULD'VE HAD MORE POLITES
And originally he was going to survive the cyclops! In epic, there is a short showing this.
And I’m pretty sure the reason why he died early is because Jorge thought it would be funny to make us cry
@@aniheartsong5102 Jorge actually posted a video with that short right after the cyclops saga came out saying that he purposefully labeled that lyric as Polites to make people think Polites would at least live through Polyphemus just so it was even more devastating.
@@StaticSpark314 oh my bad! I must have misread that situation.
great choice to kill him. very annoying character, always skip his song.
I absolutely love Jay's use of a lyre for Hermes, the inventor of the lyre.
ZESTY HADEEEEESSSSS (but its with his great great grandson but its also greek mythology so weird but not the weirdest)
LMAO ZESTY HADES hermes is now zesty hades
I love how Odysseus is so over Hermes’ shit from the moment the song starts
He’s just like “great grandfather, please stop flirting with me and telling me to do drugs”
I shared Herme's being a somewhat-great-great-grandfather because I totally picture him patting Odysseus on the head and sneaking him gifts like a grandparent spoiling their grandkids.
But also waiting for him to trip so he can laugh at him 😂
To be fair, some people also say "Hermes is Odysseus Great-Grandfather" in a "This is probably part of why he helps Odysseus out" sort of way, at least I do
Mortius fangirling over Hermes is my whole mood and religion
Hermes being Odysseus's great-grandfather is what makes it that much better. Family bonding! Fun grandpa pulling pranks!
Trickster gods, they love to meddle.
Also the younger the gods get the more they kinda vibe with mortals and Hermes is one of the youngest.
23:48 I feel like if it’s gods it’s fine. Oedipus marrying his mom was seen as part of a horrific prophecy he accidentally fulfilled, so there does seem to be a negative connotation on the mortal side.
There needs to be a few degrees of separation
@@dragonstouch1042Not really. Parent and child is looked down upon, but pretty much everything else is on the table. Zeus and Hera are siblings, for example. A lot of the gods are both siblings and lovers, in fact. Also super common to have an aunt/uncle with their niece/nephew.
Yeah, the Greeks were freaked out by the Pharaos marrying their sisters and such. God's are gods they do not have blood or any of the things, like morals, that would make it a problem, but that incest in humans leads to issues "and is punished by the gods" was known thoughout most of human history. Would not be a problem here, given it's with a god, but human on human was a taboo
Fun fact: Hermes is Odysseus's great-grandfather.
14:41 that's an Easter egg that jay put there it's actually dive of the heart because he loves kingdom of hearts and zelda
It’s cool seeing you guys mention Jonathan Young, Caleb Hyles, Troy, etc because I’ve been following all of them for years. It’s just nice getting to see different areas I follow intersect
Oh yes were reacting to my second favorite song in Epic the musical wish you all the best casper
Only rival to dangerous
So true I love wouldn’t you like. Although I found a hour long version of dangerous and I watched the entire thing with out getting bored. It was just like two of jays shorts put on repeat what is wrong with me
@@GleamDrawzYes bro facts
To answer the question "Why would you see disco elements in a greek-":
In The Lightning Thief Musical, the underworld song D.O.A. is disco because disco is dead.
Also, DOA = Dead On Arrival
I really recommend reacting to The Lightning Thief Musical
Going off of the fact that Hermes often gifts heroes what they need to succeed, I remember how Mortius was going all crazy about how Odysseus just accepted all the gifts that were thrown into his path. In Greek mythology, it was considered rude to deny gifts from the lowest guest to the gods. There are myths where people with poor hospitality will literally get the wrath of the gods, or those with good hospitality would be allowed to avoid some kind of catastrophe. Just thought you might like to know, so here you are.
if I remember right HERMES have Love/Hate relationship with Circe that one of reason he help Odysseus but HERMES will not be OK if Odysseus kill Circe
Nope, that's something Madeline Miller made up for her novel and it somehow became so popular people think its mythology canon.
There is no myth and no mention in either the Illiad or the Odyssey where Circe and Hermes mention each other, let alone have history of a relationship.
How many other people realised that in this song, hermes is a literal wing-man for odysseus. "I help you conquer her" is clearly meant more than just defeating her in battle.
Which is kinda a trap, cause interest in her would have killed ody the key to win her over is respecting women and not touching even when she invited it
I cant wait for u to meet by far the ZESTIEST & most FLAMBOYANT GOD in EPIC: The Musical. I know u will love him in this.
When I tell you my brain short circuited when I heard his laugh for the first time
Hermes just brings all the good vibes. After dealing with an ENRAGED POSEIDON, and now Circe turning what remains of Odysseus' "600 Men" (minus Eurylochus) into pigs, Hermes' good vibes is something we need. at least there is no double-edged sword with Hermes. Homeboy just wants to lend a hand to his great, great, grandson.
@@captainfordo3978 you are a bit overstating what circe did, she only turned at most 5 men into pigs, not all 40 something.
Bro mount Olympus is just a giant mound of skittles 💀
10:00 the frame mortius pause is so funny to me XD
I love that the lighting of the animation is reminiscent of the flags for different sexualitys because of how paradoxical Hermes's sexuality is
Something weird happens, I now must shout, "It's a Hermes!!"
About the fact that Hermes and Ody are related (dont worry, im not gonna make it weird), it definitely explains the trickster part of his personality! The reason why hermes is so chill with Ody specifically is because thats his dude. Part of him is in Odysseus, and he feels inclined to help him. Odysseus was the one to come up the Trojan horse (at least in some translations). He uses the nobody trick, and later in the saga, he goes to Cirice with moly, and at first is playing dumb about what she did.
Its fun to think of Hermes as that one guy from you family that shows up to teach you how to cheat the system, and dootes heavily on Odysseus.
WINGS HADES
Yes, we went from Wet Hades to Wing Hades
Casper I'm surprised you didn't pick up on the fact that there were two voices singing the " wouldn't you like a taste of the power" line . One was Hermes and the other is the person who voices Athena. Nothing has been confirmed , but I think your theory that Athena has been watching and that has been signified by the piano in previous songs is correct and that hearing her voice here is a hint that she is trying to indirectly help Odysseus and that she sent Hermes.
Well I was told that Gods can summon choirs at will so I just assumed that was the case here - But I agree with you, Athena theory definitely gets reinforced by the fact the she sings in this! That's such a dope detail! :)
@@CFEntertains Yeah the invisible choirs the Gods can summon does make the possible intention more ambiguous. Some the singers who have more prominent parts also lended their voices for minor no name parts like crew members . I just checked what artists are listed on "Wouldn't you like"and Athena's actor is not listed by name it just lists Troy , Jorge, and 'cast of epic' but it seems suspicious. If it's not intentional it does seem like a missed opportunity especially considering how a piano, Athena's instrument, always seems to be played right before or when Odysseus is facing off against the bad guy in previous sagas.
@@CFEntertains I believe when it lists "Epic Ensemble" as the choir is being used, it is any of the prior voices singing that are not currently being focused on. I believe Luke Holt, Zues, is in either/both "Full Speed Ahead" and/or "Luck Runs Out" but isn't credited as a solo voice since in that instant he is not playing Zues but just a man of the crew. If we are hearing other gods' voices it really could just be them being in the choir not their role.
On a side note, this could just be old info that I am recalling from Jorge's TikToks and not really canon to the musical anymore. I do remember seeing a 4 person song snippet with Jorge, Armando, Luke, and a fourth I cannot recall with Luke having either "crew" or "Elpenor" above him.
@@asuna9243 You're probably thinking of the old snippet for "Storm" and the line "An Island in the Sky", in which Luke is playing Elpenor and the fourth guy, Ayron Alexander, is playing Perimedes
How did I not get the “send a message” line until now…
Shame on you, shame on your family, shame on your cow
YES YOU WATCHED XIMENA NATZEL’S ANIMATIC FOR THIS
(i loved this animatic so much)
Jay posted a clip a while ago of an older version of "Puppeteer" with Teagan (Athena) as Circe, and the song sounds so different, and not just because of Teagan. Armando (Eurylochus) has greatly improved in his confidence in the rap part. There are a lot of clips of older versions of the songs and it's mind-blowing how much changed.
i swear this song is my favorite considering how often it enters my brain in a day along with just the chours saying posidean over and over
15:02 for a second I thought you just did the limp wrist thing 💅to Hermes like you were calling him gay😭
So fun fact,
Troy, the man that plays Hermes, replied to my comment on TikTok and and this is my greatest achievement 🎉
That is an incredible achievement!
Feel you!
This singer for HERMES, the laugh is just so hermes LOL I love him
There exists a bunch of shorts of Hermes songs where the performer is just singing to the camera in character and it is so damn disco it's great. The man is just absolute boogie.
Mortius and Casper, if you guys haven't seen it by now, Caleb Hyles did do an Epic the Musical cover, but unfortunately it wasn't with Jonathan but at least it was with Annapantsu, who I believe is the only person I know that can match Athena's vocals perfectly! Which is why Caleb and Anna did Warrior of the Mind
i mean. Oedipus went out of his way to avoid marrying his mother, accidentally did anyway, and gouged his eyes out when he found out. so that is at least the line
That was an issue, cause they both where human, it does not matter for the gods and zeus can be an ancestor of heracleus 3 times over, but human on human incest that's icky because of biethdefects and the gods punish it as hypocrits.
This, with Hermes being removed more then once, no one would care, gods have different genetics and rules anyways.... Pretty sure zeus impregnated at least one of his daughters
@@SingingSealRiana okay, i'm not actually complaining about Hermes/Odysseus being shipped, it's just annoys me when people use Oedipus as an example of "incest was okay in ancient greece" when for him specifically it was very bad and very not okay
Right now I'm at about 18 minutes in. I know that you guys haven't touched on it yet but just in case you guys didn't throw out the rest of this video, that long string of yelling at the end that cord. That was Jay. It's supposed to be Odysseus like powering up after eating the plant. A lot of people tend to think that that was Hermes it's not Hermes, it's just Odysseus being empowered with the plant
Oh, didn’t know that 😅 thanks for it❤
Hermes is also Odysseus' great grandfather! so helping him at this moment doesn't nessecarily come out of the blue. he may have been following along for a while or at least checking in from time to time. it's not unreasonable to assume he already knows how much influence Athena has exerted on Odysseus
That and Athena did send as she was one of the background vocals in the chorus
@@dragonsweat256I feel like if other gods are implied to be a part of the story, it's not their voice that's used, but their instruments. Jorge doesn't have an infinite amount of vocalists, so I think it makes sense for him to reuse ones who's character isn't here for a while. And it may just be me, but I don't hear Athena's theme, nor her instrument in the background, so I doubt she asked Hermes to help.
Hermes: Messenger of The Gods and God of Messengers, currency, hospice, and healing.
Fun Fact: When King Leonidas killed the Persian messenger, the other King at the time was scared shitless because messengers are supremely protected by laws above Man. He sent two messengers to Xerxies for the sole intent to sacrifice themselves in recompense to avoid war. Xerxes killed them and went to war anyway. That's how sacred messengers were, BANDITS did not mess with them!
Thank you, Mortius, for sharing the *HERMES* ~and Jay~ tiktok series and Troy's other Hermes material, even if it is off screen. If you want to share those reactions here, I'd love to see them.
Being related to eachother in came up in the Percy Jackson series...that I think is worse to think about than Hermes and Odessyus 💀🤣
maybe I'm too naive, but I felt like the "message" Hermes sent were from Athena
I like to think that the background singers aren't just random voices summoned because Hermes is a god, but instead that he is moving so fast that he can legit just harmonize with himself
Just getting it out now, I came up with the names Drug grampa Hades and Troy Hades.
Edit: Also I came up with the _ Hades to signify how many people were watching the premiere at the time.
This is the single most snappable song in the play.
If you haven't started snapping your fingers at the later chorus, you're missing out
I can’t wait! Best part, it’s coming out on my birthday-day!
Happy birthday 🎂
Happy birthday 🎂
17:23 I’m hella late but I know for my own music I’ve been obsessed with that downward chord progression. And apparently it has roots in flamenco music, it’s called the “Andalusian cadence”. It’s great in flamenco applications but I think it can be really dramatic and “heartthrobby” 😂 when slowed down
One thing I think is often forgotten is also that Hermes is the Greek god of mischief/trickster god. He’s essentially the Ancient Greek Loki, which explains why he’s so playful.
When you look at Troy Doherty, you _just get_ disco vibes. He looks very disco, if that makes any sense.
So sad I missed the premiere, but the vid was great! Hermes is a giant meme and I love this interpretation of him!
YES HES YES YES
HERMES, OUR BOYBOSS
i am now imagining Hermes with an old grandpa voice just going "yo you want some drugs grandson?"
When you saw Hermes' feet in the Pupeteer animatic, you also get a hint of those plucked harp notes. It's a musical hint that Hermes is watching the interaction between Odysseus and Eurylochus. That's why he commented on Odysseus' speech.
This is one of my top songs, and I do love this artwork..... however I will admit that I love the design of Hermes from WolfytheWitch. I don't know what it is but their design just nails Hermes Trickster God of Travelers. Like I can SEE that design in the middle of the woods being a mysterious traveler.
While This Hermes just hits more Messenger of the Gods and God of Trade. It's A GOOD Design, my heart was just taken by another.
12:48 Yes, Hermes is in it for the memes
OH MY GOD THE DOUBLE MEANING OF SEND A MESSAGE WENT SO OVER MY HEAD. Of course hermes isnt afraid to send a message i missed that until now
so glad you're reacting to my bbg (Hermes)
Flying Hades 🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥
Fun fact:
The end with the ‘whoas’ over the last verse is actually Odysseus tripping on acid and feeling invincible, taking a leaf from Hermes’s book and starting to riff.
I pretty sure Jay had to clarify it was him singing that, not Troy- I mean the real Hermes
Hercules is the product of Zeus f*cking around in his family tree 4 times.
And outside of it at least once.
Someone once proposed an Epic cover album consisting of UA-camrs and lesser-known singers. Caleb was who they suggested for Odysseus, and Jonathan Young was their pick for Zeus. However, I think this was before the Ocean Saga came out, so I could totally see him for Poseidon instead.
Hermes is also distantly related to Odysseus, I think he's his great great grandfather
He’s closer than that. Great grandfather. Only two generations apart
I don't know if anyone else has mentioned it, but Wouldn't You Like has a mellow vibe that gives the feeling of a drug trip. While this might just be me it could be playing into the root/drug Hermes is getting Odysseus to eat.
Hermes is my _favorite_ EPIC character after Polites
He's so funky, so like, _lively_ & yeah, i kinda get disco vibes too
This song is so fun, its in my top 10 at least
Troy is so good at embodying Hermes that in a clip of him recording this, his mannerisms are very Hermes.
20:44 - The original demos of all of the songs were all just performed by Jorge essentially until he started casting the roles through tiktok lol. Save he had Teagan (Athena) early, as a frlend of his I believe and she demoed Athena and Circe's parts
Important context to know is that Odysseus is the the great grandson of Hermes (from his mother's side of the family). So Hermes has even less reason to expect something in return from Odysseus since the favor is for family.
Cant wait to see your reaction to my favourite epick the musical song!
24:17 I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT. That's a great point!
Eyyyy it's my favourite song so far and (probably) my favourite animatic for it! Odysseus getting incessantly flirted at and also fed psychedelics by his great-grandpa will never get old :D
HERMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES(and jay)
My favorite song !!! ❤ I can't wait ! J'ai trop hâte !!!
Oh an other french fan of Epic The Musical ! So glad !
@@EmrysTheGreat-dg7zv yeap ! 😁
Im here re watching Mort's playlist for these reactions bc i adore you both so much. This is my favorite song of the saga and maybe the whole musical. I will die happy when Mortius covers this
The drumming at 19:07 is the Rick Roll drums 😂😂😂
Hermes is also the god of thieves (which you know from pjo) and I like to connect him to Loki in the agent of chaos trickster vibe he has throughout Greek mythology
I love this community, I was scrolling through the comment section and every now and then there's a (blank) Hades 😂😂 we will never let it go hehehehhe
Yeaaahhhh it makes me laugh when people say it's weird to interpret it as Hermes flirting because well... like you said, this IS Greek mythology where basically nothing is off limits 😂