Is Kaleidescape Better Than Physical Media? | Encoding Size Comparisons for 40+ HD & 4K HDR Movies
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2024
- In this video, I challenge if Kaleidescape quality is "better" than physical media/disc/Blu-ray across a variety of HD and 4K HDR titles from various studios, release years, and movie genres. I'm comparing the main movie video + audio stream ripped from HD/4K Blu-ray into MKV vs. the download size of the same movie only on the Kaleidescape system.
Understand that size is not the only or end all determination factor for quality; however, the larger the size with similar compression techniques then the more bits are being used to sample/encode the content and it should indicate in overall likelihood of higher quality and less negative artifacts. Small differences in size will not matter, but as you see in the video, some films are considerably larger on Kaleidescape.
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0:00 Kaleidescape vs Disc
1:35 Comparison Setup
2:26 Alita Battle Angel 4K & Details
4:24 A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood 4K
4:42 Back to the Future 4K
5:00 Batman 4K
5:15 The Dark Knight 4K
5:30 Blade Runner 2049 4K
5:53 Enter the Dragon HD
6:19 Batman Hush 4K
6:48 Wonder Woman 1984 4K
7:07 Encanto 4K
7:25 The Croods A New Age 4K
7:50 Dune 4K
8:06 Free Guy 4K
8:17 Fury 4K
8:30 Kiki's Delivery Service HD
9:22 Ghost in the Shell 4K
9:37 Ghostbusters Afterlife 4K
9:51 Belle HD
10:26 Godzilla King of the Monsters 4K
10:52 Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire 4K
11:12 Sing 2 4K
11:30 No Time to Die 4K
12:09 John Wick 3 4K
12:21 Jurassic Park 4K
12:43 King Richard 4K
12:53 Last Night in Soho 4K
13:06 Mad Max Fury Road 4K
13:16 Avengers Endgame 4K
13:49 Spider-Man No Way Home 4K
14:08 The Matrix 4K
14:23 Luca 4K
14:35 War for the Planet of the Apes 4K
14:46 Ready Player One 4K
15:07 Rocky IV HD
15:34 Ron's Gone Wrong 4K
15:47 Children Who Chase Lost Voices HD
16:03 Sonic the Hedgehog 4K
16:23 Star Trek 4K
16:34 Star Wars Return of the Jedi 4K
16:44 Tenet 4K
16:57 Terminator 2 Judgment Day 4K
17:12 The Transformers The Movie 4K
17:41 Comparison Results
#hometheater #homecinema #kaleidescape - Наука та технологія
I am a certified Kaleidescape dealer and am adding more home theater brands as well. I can help add Kaleidescape to your system or upgrade your Kaleidescape gear. Contact me through www.jaremypyle.com for more information. Thanks!
This is really helpful! This has been one of my biggest questions, so I'm happy you addressed a good number of films without cherry-picking. Thanks!
My pleasure! Glad it helped. If you jump into K please consider using my referral code. 👍😄
Good video, I would love to see real world examples, I’ve seen a few you tubers talk about the file size and picture quality but no one really shows the difference. I know some of it has to do with our viewing displays as what you are seeing may not be what we are seeing on phones/ tablets etc but it would be even more informative to show on screen.
I can try for some kind of real example follow-up. We'll see. It's very hard to make because I'd be recording the image with a camera, would have to account for HDR in both recording and editing, any sharpness or detail difference might not even resolve.
Even if you can't take high quality image captures, sharing any noticable difference with video or audio would be helpful.
Yeah, we'll see. I'm working on the idea, but it'll take some time before it could happen.
I bought a Kaleidescape and compared it to my modified oppo 205 done by cinema mike and also I convert my my movies into m2ts files they are 4 to 10 gigs bigger than MkV files. The quality between my oppo 205 and the kaliedoscape were pretty much the same , but my moder oppo 205 blew out of the water as far as sound , so the kaliedoscape got box up and sent back .
What audio are you referring to? Digital bitstream audio from movies or analog audio? The latter is a key element of what the 205 was made for handling. I'm kind of curious to try a toroidal power supply on my Strato C and see or hear if anything improves.
Digital Bitstream from movies I only use m2ts as files I had it totally modified with new power supply better compactors, he replaced some the chips on board.
That's kind of surprising to read you saying that, cause digital audio is just digital audio. Decoding is being done in the receiver/processor so the signal is just a bit stream. But I see often enough that upgrading power supplies to toroidal/linear models makes a difference for video and audio. It's also a big part of the design in the new high end Zappiti and Zidoo type players. I need to get an LPS for the Strato and see what happens... :)
@@Techthusiasm I spent 2000 thousand dollars getting my 205 modified, it wasn't just the the power supply that was replaced , the movie i used to play the diffrence between the two I played the greatest showman, the scene with Jenny Lind after her singing performances in the ball room on moded oppo 205 you can feel the room , people whispering in the background, the kaliedoscape I didn't hear none of that i had my cousin over and one my friends to to hear the difference. That's why i pack it up and sent it back.
I'll have to see if I can test that movie off K vs. disc/rip. Thanks for letting me know. There's always potential of a bad mix/release. I don't think that difference is customary based on my experience.
You should try doing a blind test. Have someone load up a movie and you have to determine if it's K or disc. Repeat multiple times and determine your accuracy.
Yes, we'll see. I might do that coming up.
Thank you for taking the time to do this comparison. As a new kaleidescape owner, one thing that I did not know about, is that there are a handful of physical media disc's that have the atmos/dts x audio and the kaleidescape does not. Do you know why? If kaleidescape is being marketed and sold as the best of the best, then it should include the best audio. Hopefully, this is something that kaleidescape will upgrade. Otherwise, I highly recommend saving up for the kaleidescape. It's so much more convenient.
My pleasure! For some time, titles in the K store from Fox and NBCU lack Atmos style audio tracks due to a process issue with those studios preventing K from getting and providing the assets. Issues with both studios were resolved some time ago. New titles from both now come with Atmos audio, but the speed of updating the back catalog hasn't been the same for each of them and still needs some attention on certain titles. K also doesn't carry as much DTS:X tracks on some titles as are on disc.
One of most useful and informative videos I've watched for kaleidescape so far. My question is what file format Kaleidescape uses. I know MKV files are slightly smaller than MT2S file which are stored on the disc. I would be more interested in the blind test to see if anyone can actually see and hear the difference between two while watching and without knowing which one is which.
Thanks! We don't know their specific encoding format. Keep in mind that I am a certified/authorized dealer for Kaleidescape now. If you're interested in a system or want to discuss, reach out through www.jaremypyle.com.
Just a Marginal Difference will be noticed by most people...
Sometimes, the SDR version has a Larger File Size than the HDR Version, which is a cause of the Encoding Algorithm used ( from Shane Lee's Interview with Kaleidoscope)
For Avengers Endgame, it's just a Mind-boggling that they would store it in a 66 GB Disc
Can I ask you (and anyone else reading this) a question... can you, on the Kaleidescape website... find any mention of them providing better than physical media quality files? When I was researching it a few months back, I couldn't find anything. And I just spent 20 minutes scouring their website and can't find any mention of it. If this was an actual thing, wouldn't the use it as a sales pitch?
I don't think it's on the web page, but they are very open in interviews and such that their K content can exceed the quality of physical discs. Per my video, those differences are minor and while I consider a virtue of the platform, I would not recommend spending all that money based on this one element as it is not that significant.
Interesting video - thanks. One variable to keep in mind is that sometimes the Disc version and the K-Scape version might differ in terms of aspect ratio changes. I don't own K-Scape, so I can't be certain, but I have read things that suggest this might be the case. Some movies will have a combination of 16:9 (or other narrower aspect ratio) and 2.40:1, and these switches may differ between the 2 sources. If so, one version or the other might have more "black bar" content, which would obviously require less bandwidth, since there is no content in those black bars.
So it would be interesting to have a look at some of those titles, to see if they differ in regard to aspect ratio presentation, and if file size differences might be partly attributable to those differences.
True, but I don't think these differences are attributed to aspect ratios. Dark Knight on 4K Blu-ray has IMAX ratios, but I believe it is fixed scope on K. That's the only title that I showed which was like that, I believe. If anything as well, that should have made the 4K disc Dark Knight size larger.
@@Techthusiasm Yes, whichever version had more 'letterbox' scenes would otherwise have the smaller file size, all else being equal, since there is no content in those large areas. I just thought that could have an impact on what you were seeing, at least on a theoretical basis. So was just curious it this might help explain some of the cases where there were unexpected differences seen between the two, in at least some of the movies.
Just a thought, and it might turn out to be irrelevant.
The other big question, which you alluded to, and which could be a truly unique video and test, would be to get a handful of people in there with you, blinded as to which source they were watching, to have them compare and rate selected scenes from selected movies from the 2 sources.
I agree that the greater file size, and hence bandwidth, would potentially provide a better image, but I've never seen this demonstrated. I'm not saying it hasn't been done, just that I haven't seen it.
Maybe you could be the first, especially doing it in a controlled fashion to provide objective results!
I'm going to work on the blind group test idea and see what I can do.
@@Techthusiasm There is a UA-cam channel called ‘Secrets of Dune’ where they compared scenes from the 4K blu-ray release of Dune to the IMAX theatrical presentation, and the blu-ray was cropped to hell. The version shown in IMAX screenings is arguably the better version but none of the options for viewing it at home allow you to view those IMAX scenes in the original aspect ratio. What I’m wondering is if the Kaleidescape version is any different? I cannot seem to find any discourse about this online.
@@fty-ys4niI wish. At the end of the sane. DV, along with Warner Bros shows they dont care about how their movies are watched for the rest of time after they arent in theatres anymore.
Does Kaleidescape have the IMAX versions of certain movies like Interstellar, The Dark Knight Rises where the aspect ratio changes to 1:78? From what I've noticed all downloaded versions are cropped (iTunes etc).
Some, yes, but not all. The new Top Gun has the changing aspect ratios.
As much as I would love a K the cost benefit doesn’t work for me. You were using a NAS before the K I was interested on your thoughts regarding playback NAS vs Disc.
No worry or care if K is not a solution for you. I still do a bit of both, actually. There are a bunch of other videos on the channel about it starting with this one ua-cam.com/video/xP032heJy4E/v-deo.html. I have an 8 bay DS1821+ now and still do maintain some local media and use Infuse to access them ua-cam.com/video/qYcBm07ihcI/v-deo.html.
I would like to see freeze-frame comparisons between Jaleidescape and 4K UHD.
Anyone know what compression K uses? It might be less efficient.
Compression on K, at the moment at least, is equitable to disc, streaming, and so on. It has all been based on H.264 and HEVC.
Thanks for the video. I'm wandering what the ringside would be if they were iso instead of mkv. In my experience, making mkv files shave off size of you don't choose everything available for the mkv. Creation.
Yeah, MKV is a great choice for taking up less storage. Pulling a main movie off a disc cuts quite a bit of space per disc.
Something I have noticed on a lot of titles from say 2013 to 2018 K is missing the DTS X audio that was available on the 4K disc. Here is one example. On Jordan Peele's 2017 movie "Get Out" the 4K disc has DTS X while the K only has DTS 5.1. Interesting ......
Yes, this is a concern that they need to address. It's present for a relatively limited number of movies, but still not ideal.
Do movies like the dark knight include the IMAX scenes in the 4k version or are they cropped
It depends on the movie. Top Gun has the IMAX ratios, but the Batmans I believe, do not.
when u download a movie in Kaleidescape, do you get the whole movie with movie menu and everything or just the movie?
K doesn't have menus. That's just a disc thing. It's a nice virtue of the platform. No menus, no forced trailers, no FBI warnings or any of that junk.
Yes I would Love to own K but as we have debated before it's just too expensive for the average Joe,to Me. I also believe K is more geared towards the Projector owners. That extra data is more so needed because of the long throw a Projector has to overcome to display an extra high quality picture. That extra 10% probably isn't as discernable on a Tv but 50% is eye opening! If K ever has a 50% Fire Sale I'll probably sign up!!😁 Great Video and Thanks for showing the comparisons.💯
Sure thing. It's definitely a luxury purchase and no one should sweat not having one. I'm working on some other ideas too focused on more video comparison... :)
I started collecting physical media 3 years ago. I liked owning and choosing a disc from the shelf and the improved quality. Started researching Kaleidescape a lot recently and feel discouraged lol. I own about 300 discs and feel stuck as to whether I should stop collecting discs and just get the kaliedescape. I currently have the 85 inch Sony. Would you say a kaliedescape is only worth it if you use a projector?
If you're using a flat panel, one thing you'll want to be aware of is that the Kaledescape currently does not do Dolby Vision.
K is pretty nice if you can justify the cost. I would say 85" is up there in size enough that warrants higher fidelity content (disc or K), but I could also be plenty happy with iTunes video quality as well at 85". Do you have a multi-channel audio system to go with the TV?
@@Techthusiasm current audio setup is SVS prime L and R towers and center speaker with plans to get a sub woofer and the prime elevation speakers as well once I move
@@Techthusiasm also, do you ever worry about K-scape losing license agreements? Or do you get the feel they are the premier product for film enthusiasts and studios will always want their content on the platform
Cool, so you have as big a flat panel as they come and plans for immersive audio. I'm not worried about the state of K's business or licenses. Among reasons I would leave the platform, those would not be reasons for me. With regards to the high fidelity content we can serve in our home theaters, we have disc and we have K or be happy with iTunes. No other high bit rate choices. Go K if you can happily spend the big money for the convenience and the elegance, and you value those things.
Can you save/move movies from computer to kaleidescape? Also for this high price tag, I guess you don’t have to purchase movies from kaleidescape platform?
Content in the Kaleidescape platform is provided by them. It's not like a Plex system where you bring your outside media. You do have to purchase content (or rent). Content is not included with the hardware purchase price.
@@Techthusiasm how wow, then complete worthless it is…. Also when you watch on projector, you can’t-really tell the difference between bluray 4k disk and 4k content on your kaleidoscope. Maybe on oled tv, but also maybe. Not bashing it enjoy it but that’s my 0.2 cent
As I understand it, cinema movie files are anywhere from 170 GB to over 300 GB, and in the case of IMAX movies, they are well over half a TB (correct me if I am wrong on this). Therefore Kaleidescape is not providing true reference cinema quality as one might expect for the price, but simply the best quality that is currently available on the market, providing marginally more data than UHD Blu-ray, but no Dolby Vision or IMAX aspect ratio. Is this all correct and is there a noticeable picture fidelity advantage over UHD blu-ray in an extra 30 gigs? Would love to see a side-by-side comparison of Harry Potter (a title I know very well) and maybe even a blind test.
I was disappointed with the UHD Blu-ray release of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (a 2k upscale) in particular as it was a lot greyer and more desaturated compared to the OG blu-ray or even the Apple TV 4k stream which is in Dolby Vision. Also in the frog choir scene on the 4k blu-ray, the music track is out of sync with the vocals. Seemed like a rushed release. I wonder if the Kaleidescape version is free of such issues. If so, then a side-by-side comparison of that scene on the 4k blu-ray versus K would make a strong case for Kaleidescape. Future video idea? ;) I heard the CEO of K say they review each movie frame by frame to correct issues that would otherwise go uncorrected.
The original studio masters are much large, I presume. I don't know actual numbers. Kaleidescape video is still compressed. Some people call is uncompressed, but that's not accurate. Yes though, it is the "best quality that is currently available" as it does (in many cases) surpass disc, even though that delta is small enough in some cases to not be visually impactful.
I have all the Potter movies on K and ripped on my NAS, so give me some specific time codes to check to help make it easier.
I would caution that better than disc quality is a nice element of K, but it's not necessarily a reason to justify the purchase given the price. It's more about convenience, access, and things like that. Although I still knowing I'm using the best source and I trust it, is nice peace of mind.
@@Techthusiasm Sure; the frog choir scene with the issue begins at 23:51. It’s a subtle delay issue that is only on the 4k blu-ray, and you have to be a true fan to notice it lol. It’ll also be interesting to compare the HDR. By my estimation, the streamed version (which you get with the digital code that comes with the 4K blu-ray which I added to my Apple TV library) is actually the better version over the 4k blu-ray, with brighter HDR in dolby vision versus the darker HDR10 on the disk version, and no issues with that one scene or any other.
How much additional gb is due to picture quality vs additional useless meta data etc
None, I would think. Meta data is just information. It's minuscule compared to the video and audio itself. Look at the different in size between in the video between the 4K HDR and 4K UHD downloads. That's the entire HDR meta data adding very little. Other meta data K includes, like credit roll timing, scene timestamps, and so on would amount to nothing.
I'm in Italy. I'm not that new to streaming, nor to physical media, but with Samsung abandoning UHD Players production, I'm a bit worried for the future of 8K media. I mean, I stream from Netflix, Prime Video & Disney+ (at least) and I'm not 100% happy with the quality of their 4K movies, sure, having a ethernet cable all around my home would help, but I can't have it. Wish something like Kaleidescape, if not Kaleidescape itselft, would be available here. That way I'll be less worried about my 8K media consuming.
Send them feedback and let them know!
Thanks for the video.. Download size is one thing, but how's the picture quality in comparison between the physical rip to the Kaleidescape file. Also I'm wondering if the Terminator 2 file is the same excessive DNR version that Lionsgate put to UHD or if it's a different version all together.
I'll have to work out a way to more directly compare the video here in another video actively.
Mine arrives next week so we'll see!!!!!
Definitely share your thoughts in some comments!
Any chances It Works outside USA? maybe using VPN, Just wondering
I do know some folks use VPN. Using it stock outside the US is not the same experience with the store. I don't have guidance on this though. Check around online and maybe on the owner's forum.
@@Techthusiasmthanks for taking some time answering my question 🙌🏻👏🏻
The mkv remux hevc files i have downloaded are just as large as the movies and half are larger and has different languages and 5.1 and 7.1 atmos.
I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean as large as the sizes I showed here? If the files contained all the different audio tracks, then yes, they'd be larger.
@@Techthusiasm yes the file sizes i have most are larger. do they give you a choice of your audio track depending on your home theater setup?
Yeah, multiple audio will make files bigger. I can't specifically comment on what you are downloading. I rip content myself for comparison. I wouldn't recommend downloading or torrenting movies.
Kinda have a feeling discs will soon be replaced by swappable ssd's.
We will see what comes, if anything, after 4K discs for physical media distribution formatting.
i must chime in with the obvious, how do they compare in regards to performance. i am not asking for a demo, just an opinion. The K system has so many obstacles, money and lack of diverse content being the big ones. As a business model, since K sells the storage, bigger is always better. On the other hand, as a platform it looks quite nice.
What aspect of performance are you asking about?
@@Techthusiasm well, audio or video
Well, the video was meant to give an indication of potential for better video quality. I think any major difference to disc will be hard to detect on most titles for video or audio. We'll see if I can set something up coming up to really put things to test.
Thank you for showing this. I’d love a K but at 9,000… I can’t justify it. 300 4k movies at $30 each is what I’d spend for a K. I currently have an OPPO, Marantz, flagship receiver, and a Sony 77 inch OLED, and do not see the value in $9000 to then turn around and have to purchase those movies to play. I’d be out $18,000 for the same 300 movies ( if I didn’t get any on sale and I usually do) and the K system. 🤦🏼♂️
It's an expensive purchase for sure. Sometimes very hard to justify. Be happy with discs, they're great!
I think you can access all your bought and paid for Blu-ray Discs via Kscape.
Provided you use a usb bdp player.
File size is anecdotal. There are so many different versions of a single movie that it would be tough to do a 1:1 comparison…
I disagree. I’m not sure what you mean by “different versions”. These are the same films, same cuts of the same movies, same running lengths. The comparison is sound. Compression schemas are similar. Higher bit rate is a proxy for quality and is evidenced by different file sizes.
Come on Kaleidescape make this available in Australia. Large market here.
Let them know what you want!
streaming>physical discs>K (per buck) ;) (you've said it Jaremy comparing streaming services vs physical discs!!!)
Too bad they've dropped their DVD/BkueRay drives. Many people have hundreds of discs (more in my case) and don't want to buy them again.
Check with a dealer if you're interested about the disc to digital program.
Why are you just giving us the file size of the mkv why not compare the full size of the disc, is that because Kaleidescape just gives you the main movie only with no extra content?
Because MKV file size is apples to apples to Kaleidescape. The 4K K movie downloads are the equivalent of main movie only MKV rips. On K, the extra content comes in the HD movie download package.
Thousand bucks says you can’t tell the difference in a blind comparison between any of these.
That is the question! I'm working on some thoughts to do more with this idea.
Nobody Can Afford Kaleidoscope I Know I Can’t I WILL stick to Physical Media Thank You
It's a luxury product for sure, but it has a decent niche customer base. They've been around for quite a few years now through multiple iterations of their products. Definitely not justifiable for mass market at the current price points.
No Dolby Vision nor HDR10+? No, thank you.
No 3d
Hi. Can you make other video with side by side comparisons? I hardly think that a 10% higher bitrate makes a difference at 4K. I think Kaleideskape is overpriced, their 7TB NAS costs 7999 dollars. I built a 160TB NAS for $6000 where I have full control. I think this service is for very rich old men with no technical understanding of NAS. The benefits of Kaleideskape are never worth the money. Exclusive releases are also known on Apple TV Dolby atmos German Track only on Apple TV for an older Mission Impossible film. But I think that a 10% higher bit rate compared to a 4K disk does not provide any advantage for the end user. Unless you watch films at 500% zoom and even then I don't believe it. More interesting are exclusive Kaleideskape releases for 4K also only 4K on Kaleideskape. But is it worth the money? never. Above all, it will all appear publicly anyway. Time exclusive is more suitable. I'll stick with it. This is snake oil for old men.
I think you're being a little overdone with your analysis. Whether something is worth the time or the money to someone is very different per person. I wish I had saved all the hours I spent formerly doing DIY ripping and media serving and bought into K earlier. The calculus is up to the individual. The virtues of K factor much more than just quality, though it does give peace of mind that it is the highest quality source available.
It looks great to me, but I'd rather buy a new car.