The reason the soldier dropped to one knee, is because if you're standing and have to shoot at a bear running toward you, if you shoot at the head your bullet may hit the bear in the rear end because it's moving so fast. If you drop to one knee the bullet is traveling the length of the bear. That's why he got one center to chest and one in the head!
Another way to state the same point: drop to one knee so you don't have to track your aim as the bear is approaching, your aim stays at the same angle / more likely to hit where you need to.
@@joeyindahl2593 Why, the 1911 made by St. Browning chambered in God's caliber .45 ACP of course. It will not only kill your adversary's body but also their soul.
Guy's, don't sleep on that 1911 in 45acp, the key is running it with 45 Super 255grn hardest, 230 or 185grn Underwood extreme defense or extreme penetrator or Buffalo bore rounds If You can't hand load. You need the fully supported chamber/ barrel( typical of almost any standard 1911 in 45) a 22 to 28lb recoil spring, get that 15 or 16lb out of there for running the Super cartridges. Proper loadings of this is equally capable of better than 10mm, basically it's personal preference at that point. Perhaps this fella hasn't heard much about this little known cartridge. Stay safe, GOD bless and help us all.
I taught school in a Native village on the Yukon and carried a .41 magnum with 220 hard cast Buffaloes Bore. Back then everyone had either a .44 mag. or .41 magnum. The people carrying the .44 mag. said they just bought the biggest they could. The .41 magnum people explained that the.41 traveled further in the bear and the lesser recoil allowed for a follow up shot with more precision in aiming!
When I hunted with Phil in 1995, my guide made me stand guard, constantly rotating 360 degrees, with my .338 while Phil’s guide skinned my bear. FYI, squared 9’10” Great outfitter! Saw 30 moose, and 27 bears in 1 day. It was the most intense hunt I’ve ever been on. It’s a great story, I in my life
Timely video, Ron. A man was just killed in a bear attack this morning a couple miles down the road from me in Arizona. Completely unprovoked, a male black bear attacked him while he was sitting in a chair and enjoying his coffee.
I carried a 4” S&W 29 for years in Wyoming during bow season and when fishing in the back country. It is heavy, but I practiced a lot with it and had complete confidence in it. Saved my partners life once with that gun.
When things are looking bad and it doesn’t look like you’re going to make it. That’s when you gotta get mean. I mean plumb mad dog mean, because if you lose your head you neither win nor live. That’s just the way it is.
Ron of all the shows that you have put together, I think this one will rank as one of the most important and meaningful. For those big game hunters ( especially bowhunters ) that hunt in grizzly country, what could be more important than having an expert prepare you for an encounter with a bear. The grizzly population has increased significantly occupying much more land area in several western states., not to mention black bears. Wheather you are cleaning a carcass ( some experts claim that bears can associate a gun shot with meat on the ground ) or just slipping quietly through dense timber, having a bear encounter should always be on your mind. Thanks for the info. as always. You may have saved a life.
Georgeclark, Ya, thats a big problem up in Kodiak. The bears know a gunshot means food on the ground & come running. Ive heard thats starting to happen in Montana too. And thoes bears are a LOT more AGGRESSIVE than Alaskan bears are. Smaller, but meaner.
Ive pondered that one a while now. A bear associating gunfire with food. Makes me not want to target practice. Almost. Definitely at least in the morning and not towards night😊
Thank you for your informative video. The five inch barrel double action .454 Casull is my choice. Single actions just require a lot of fine motor skills; and the situation you’re carrying for dictates they should be minimized. Anyone carrying a semi automatic should always have a round in the chamber; and if it’s a 1911, cocked and locked is proper protocol.
That is a tragic story, but good to dissect it and speculate how it could have been avoided. Not to put blame on either individual but we learn from our (or other's) mistakes. What about carrying a 12ga. with slugs or buck shot? Is that effective on a big bear?
@@manstersr That's why I'm here watching this vid. I don't go out hiking anywhere where there are bears but I wonder what gun could have saved them if the bear spray didn't.
My buddy killed a bull in archery season and made a trip and came back to a Grizz on his elk, he said they will follow hunters and have no problem getting aggressive, there's so many of them they are fighting eachother so they are always down for a fight
I enjoy listening to your show, I’ve learned a lot. I lived in Alaska for 33 years and work as a paramedic part of my duty is bear watch/ bear hazing. I noticed you said not many bear attacks in Alaska, there’s quite a few they don’t make the news anymore like they used to. I’ve had by two neighbors attacked by grizzlies, a coworker as a flight medic had two patients badly mauled by brown bears . Heard or read numerous accounts of people using pepper spray during a bear attack not one case did it have any effect on the bear. I carry a 44 mag a 454 Casul. Thanks for your UA-cam channel.
ive met a large number of people who have had success with bear spray. Ive also met a number of people who have had success with handguns and long guns. They all have their time and place and drawbacks.
@@alexdrockhound9497, Willing to bet your LIFE on spray that hardly ever works & NEVER in a real attack. AK F&G for 25 years bud & spray belongs in a dumpster. It's only bunnyhugger morons who say it works all the time. It DOSENT & should be banned completely.
I agree, as an Alaska resident for 63 years, we know that many Bear, and moose, encounters are not reported often. As well, homeowners here carry, and do execute a charging threat, call troopers after, case settled
It's called the " Michigan stance". Drop to one knee , and with a two hand hold, with your left elbow on the left raised knee. Just reverse for left handed draw. It is very stable, and works with alot of different animals, because you don't have to constantly adjust for the angle of approach as you do standing.
@@Shaylokhow do you plan to run from a bear or watever is charging at you. Last time, if i remember correctly we are the slowest and that doesnt take into account the individual physical body in that situation.
I never thought about it before. But the Michigan stance makes a lot of sense to me. You're better off taking the Michigan stance so you can take a good shot so the bullet travels the length of the beer rather than constantly trying to adjust you're aim. I mean let's face it. If a bear is charging you you got seconds not several minutes. And last time I checked humans cannot outrun bears.
In another discussion, there was a hunting guide who says he skips the handgun approach entirely in bear country. He carries an AR-SBR chambered in 450 SOCOM and wears it in a chest rig. Maybe not as convenient as a handgun but he's going to be more accurate and will have a lot more rounds to send down range.
Yup, all you have to do is look at the ballistic performance of any center fire big game rifle and compare that to the muzzle energy of any "magnum" handgun. Unless we're talking about ridiculously powerful handguns like the .500 S&W, having recoil that most people are incapable of handling, the terminal ballistics of just about any big game hunting rifle at 100-200 yards is far superior to just about any "magnum" handgun's terminal ballistics at the muzzle.
@@markihde4381, Handguns are only a backup when you can't get your rifle into play, which is MOST of the time in a real, up close bear attack. However, the 10mm is taking over here in Alaska as the PRIMARY bear deterrent. It works, light, fast & instinctive shooting when there's no time to aim w massive firepower. And, most likely to be kept ON you all the time. A rifle you have to swing into play or is just an inch out of reach might as well be on the moon for all the good it will do you when the SHTF. Most bear attacks start around 15 yards or less. You'll have 1-maybe 2 seconds to react before it has you. Alaska bushman 30 years, multiple attacks. Only twice was I able to use my rifle which was IN my hand. 45/70 lever gun. Other attacks were at point blank range. No time for the rifle.
Alaskan here - Yes, bush pilots that transport hunters usually have a pile of bear spray and also camp stove fuel they will let you pick from. They carry bear spray and fuel in the plane floats or other outside storage. I carry a 10mm model 1911. It’s a thumper and is very reliable. I like that it is flat. Several years ago, a guy in Kenai was attacked by a brown bear and he shot it with his .44 Magnum revolver. He got four shots off when the gun jammed. One of the bullets had moved forward under the heavy recoil and pulled out of the case far enough to bind the cylinder. So if you do carry heavy loads, make sure the crimp is really tight!
My uncle had a black bear sow charge back in the early 80's. He put 4 rounds of 30-06 into it mid charge with his old rem 700. It dumped at his feet a mere yard from my cousin (7yo at the time)
I know the story you're talking about, it happened fairly recently, and it was sick. Furthermore, I heard that the bear spray can was found to have been fully used. Additionally, a couple and their dog were recently killed in Montana by a brown bear, and it took help a day later to get there to rescue them, but they passed away. This couple had a total of two bear spray cans that were fully used as well, and they failed. Bear spray is being overhyped and I feel that it could result in lawsuit territory at some point if this continues. Sure, use the spray as a first resort, but back it up with a firearm.
Bear spray probably works great for a bear wanting inside a cooler in camp or some random curiosity bear. But an angry bear?, I doubt it. I imagine an angry Grizzly is like putting nitrous in a bulldozer.
Thank you for mentioning the best handgun is the one you can and will take with you. For me it’s a 10mm (with 200 or 220 grain HC). The big wheel guns are just too heavy for me, and I can handle a semi-auto better. The medium revolvers with 5 rds weigh about the same as my XDMe with 10 rds. I live where there are grizzlies and wolves, so I’ll take the extra rounds. I’ll also carry a handgun AND bear spray, depending on what I’m doing.
A great topic to cover. We can never be too careful out there because lives can depend on our ability to stop a threat. Enjoyed seeing Ron and Joseph in a video again.
In Arizona my risk from a bear attack is relatively low but my risk from feral dogs ( we lost a young lady on the Navajo Reservation recently) and feral people is real. One logical option is .357 from my Gp 100 or my 686
I actually made a video about surviving dog attacks if you're interested. I've also made videos about bear defense and .357 magnum is more than capable. With proper hardcast lead loads it has well over 64 inches of penetration in clear ballistics gel. ua-cam.com/video/vPkmP29zjp8/v-deo.html
I think the soldier dropped to one knee to be on the same plane as the bear. That way you don't have angle intersection shooting, it would be flat, straight on. Easier to hit the target. Smart move.
I describe in this video why doing that is not necessarily a good idea. ua-cam.com/video/oFTqBOeZgV0/v-deo.html I talk about that at roughly 24:20 in the video.
@@infogunvault6920Good show I enjoyed it Obviously he was staying calm and thinking about bullet placement. Going to one knee leaves the other knee in an elevated position which can be used as a rest for an elbow to steady the aim. Right knee, for right handed people, left elbow on the raised knee, two handed grip. Shooting off hand is quicker but not as steady. While in the Military I used to turn my right foot to lay flat on the ground and sat on it for the kneeling position, Range Master allowed it because I was not sitting on the ground.
The soldier dropping to one knee is what we called a “training scar”. When we were firing and didn’t have an actual barricade we simulated by dropping to one knee. Awesome video guys! Thanks.
I'm not sure that barricades have much to do with it. We were always taught that your steadiest shot is prone. Next best is kneeling or sitting, whichever you can, and that standing fire with no braces is simply done for mobility or better visual range. It is inherently the least accurate position.
Most practical of your videos; thank you. We all struggle with this question. For me 1911 vs Colt 45. I lean to 1911 because of concern of bears vs concern of wolves.
Living here the Interior of Alaska i can say around half of the hunters here carry 10mm mostly in a Glock and the other half are wheel gunners. Myself included. But every single 1 ive met carry hard cast. 454 casull for me. Good topic yall👍
Saw a comment from a hunting guide that had many encounters with black and grizzly bears. He stated the charge of a grizzly bear and the amount of ground it can cover can not be over emphasized. He recommended that if you have to shoot a charging bear, go to a knee (as you described the military man doing) and shoot at the bear parallel to the ground, or,, based on it's amazing speed, your shots are most likely going to be hitting the ground behind the bear because you won't be swinging down on the bear fast enough to engage it before it's on you.
I describe in this video why doing that is not necessarily a good idea.ua-cam.com/video/oFTqBOeZgV0/v-deo.html I talk about that at roughly 24:20 in the video.
Killed one charging bear at the base of a snow slide on the edge of a spruce forest. No way was I going to get down on one knee. Might as well as made it two and prayed for all the good that would have done me.
@@interrestrial9815 what is the point in staying standing up? Its not like youre gonna outrun the thing. By kneeling you get a nice straight shot. I would say circumstances would dictate whether to kneel or stand. But hey...nice shooting man!
I grew up in Alaska when ever my family would go out hunting or we would go fishing. My dad would carry a Mossberg 500 with a pistol grip 3 slugs and 2 buck. We’ve had encounters with bears but by the time we would see them they are high tailing it away from us. However we did have more run-ins with moose and nearly ran over.
I also grew up in Alaska. The only bears I saw were blacks and I never saw their faces, just the hind end rapidly getting smaller. But that doesn't mean the next one would have a different attitude, so we always stayed on guard.
I’ve been in Alaska all my life and I’ve seen all three bears, Polar, brown including Kodiak, and black. Easy to see browns and blacks around Anchorage. Last summer saw blacks 3 times and brown once in town.
#1 buckshot is an absolute NO GO. Absolutely trash against a big bear. Far too little penetration. #2 standard "foster style" lead slugs are ALSO absolute trash. They smash and deform, and don't penetrate enough. Can it work? Mabey. But it's a bad option. 12g slug is a great option BUT it MUST be a specific designed hardened slug like a Brenneke Black magic or Federal extreme penetrators.
I like the idea of a10mm semi-auto. My preference is a Glock. But as a backup to a 45/70 lever gun. First choice: the 45/70, always close at hand. And I wouldn't discount a 357 wheel gun if that's what you have. Everybody has an opinion. But most agree that optimal reliability and the most power you can manage in an emergency is best. Thanks for the video.
Cool video! I spent a few years on Kodiak Island in the 90’s and the general sentiment at the time was that if you bought a handgun for bear defense, you should file the sights off so it doesn’t hurt as bad when the bear shoves it into your nether regions… That said, I have spent more time in bear county than most and I really think you are on to something with the 10mm if a guy practices often. That kind of firepower with ammo capable of modern ballistics weren’t even something we imagined back then. Freedom Arms was just starting with the .454, but we still didn’t think it was enough to bet our lives on. We carried rifles. Thanks, good video, solid advice.
Great episode guys. I've always heard that you should drop to a knee when shooting a charging bear to prevent you from shooting over it. Because when standing up you're shooting at where the bear WAS when you pulled the trigger, due to angle and direction of travel the bear moves forward of your aim point as you fire. Otherwise You should practice and remember to sort of lead the shot or aim slightly in front of the bear depending on the speed of the charge, and this is only anecdotal knowledge to me, but it makes sense just like leading shots for birds or any moving targets.
Makes sense, twointhe... But will one have the presence of mind, not to mention time, to assume the position. Many, if not the vast majority, of bear attacks one hears about are described as terrifying and instantaneous. Came out of nowhere. Covered 40 yards in a split second. Didn't have time to raise my rifle. Methinks one must imagine, visualize, rehearse, and practice a sudden charge scenario... and then practice, practice, practice some more. A weekly bear attack training regimen?
I'm not saying it's easy to do in most situations. I'm just saying as a guide he should have known why he got dropped to 1 knee. he literally said I'm not sure why he did that. I'm also not criticizing him, just that I'm surprised he didn't know why he did it.
In the 1970s my uncle was the Ranger for Red Lodge Montana. My dad was a visiting Doctor from Billings. They shot an aggressive bear. I believe brown. Once with a 30-30 and once with a 30-06 . My father and uncle escaped with their lives. The bear ran off. They never found what happened. I visited years later after my dad's death. I was placing something in a trash bin on a rainy day in Red Lodge. A black bear came out from around the bin. I got away before he did anything. Carry a firearm in Red Lodge Montana
Wonderful video, guys! It's always nice to listen to people with real-world experience. In my younger years, I carried a 500 Linebaugh in a cross-draw holster. I had extensive experience with that caliber and it is a serious thumper. It was those second and third shots, as Joseph mentioned, that were too slow to come on target that drove me to leave it at home. I switched to an S&W 625 Mountain Gun in 45 Colt. What a wonderful gun. There used to be an ammunition company in Texas by the name of 4W. They produced a 45 Colt 368gr hard cast that left the barrel at nearly 1,200fps. I still have a couple of boxes of that fine ammo. After many rounds of practice, I was able to get follow-up shots off quick enough to give me a significant level of comfort. The double action was a major part of that. Buffalo Bore is another company that can bring out the best in the 45 Colt. In the end, it's all a personal choice and thanks to the gun companies and ammo companies who listened to guys like you two, the options are many.
I remember my dad taking me to Alaska when I was 16. We fished, seen the beautiful scenery. We had a guide, old man, he had been doing guide work since he was 18 if I remember correctly. He carried a .357 magnum for the bears. I remember him and my dad talking about it. He said, and I remember this very clearly, " If you can't back out, and the bear starts to get ornery, take one of his lungs out. They ain't looking for a fight when they lose half their air.". Always will remember that.
Great show , I was aware that many hunters up in Alaska have turned to the 10mm for bear . It delivers the energy needed has the bullet capacity without the weight of a big revolver.
@@David-q1k4k , Try again. The 10s are sweeping Alaska as THE superior backup handgun & w the proper bear loads more than enough to do the job. Even 9mm works IF loaded properly. Check out " Phil Schumakers 9 mm grizzly kill." And not a single head shot in the bunch.
@@robertramirez2076 , Try 16 rounds in the normal size. But even 9mm are working loaded properly. Check out " Phil Schumakers 9 mm grizzly kill. " And THAT was a single stack 9.
You two would be fun to camp with and tell stories over an open fire, coffee in hand. Appreciate you both sharing your knowledge. Stay safe and have fun.
I carry a S&W 329PD 44 Mag titanium in a chest rig. It has taken years of practice to master it and a good set of Hogue grips. I make a point to shoot it at least once a month. I wear it every time I go hunting and I forget I have it on. You have given some good advice.
Power to you, Buddy. I had one and it was fun to practice with 44 specials, but Magnum loads were too much for me, 1st shot dead on, 2nd shot a foot high ... 5th on my butt with a bear on me. At least that's what I envisioned during an attack. Had many experienced friends shoot it and none of them liked it. Your practice regime would make all the difference in the world! Went to a Glock 20 SF and can shoot much more accurately.
That's a hard gun to shoot!!!!! I swear eith my glockenspiel I'll shoot a half sized silhouette at 100 yards 8 outve 10 times, u give me my 329pd 44, titanium. And a target at 20 yards I won't hit ot once!!!
@@trevinvaldez2763 It is the worse kicking handgun I've ever shot. I have a 500 S&W that is nothing compared. Even a TC .308 I had was nothing to that one. I carry it because it is light and hopefully I will only need 1 shot so make the first one a good one.🙂
I too carry a pd329 Smith in a chest holster. You are absolutely correct. Practice frequently. With 255gr Buffalo Bore or Garret 310 Hammerheads it is a wicked hand gun even with the Magnaport double ports. I practice frequently with hot hand loads.
I have the same 329PD with Hogue grips. Diamond D chest holster on every hunt. Comes very close to my S&W 460V 395 grain in recoil. Recently went with a Glock 20 and 40 10mm as well.
I heard a Canadian guide recommend the "drop to one knee" approach. His reasoning was that many people overshoot a charging bear, whereas a shot from the kneeling position is parallel to the ground and more likely to go straight through the bear.
I describe in this video why doing that is not necessarily a good idea. ua-cam.com/video/oFTqBOeZgV0/v-deo.html I talk about that at roughly 24:20 in the video.
I don’t go with hard cast, I carry the Lehigh penetrators loaded by underwood. Penetration of the monolithic with tissue disruption like a hollow point is a excellent combination by my estimation.
Jay, Try both, alternate the shells. Best of both worlds. Underwoods & Buffalo Bore make the best/ hottest hard casts & the WFN for some weird reason has an amazing pressure wall in front of it causing plenty of disruption. Travels straighter too where the penetrators seem to vear off more.
I carry lehigh xtreme penetrators as well. Theyre perfect for large predators. Theyll go through anything you point them at, even in smaller calibers. Only thing ill say is, they dont produce any permanent cavitation in real tissue. they lack the velocity to do that. if you've seen cavitation in ballistics gel, thats because ballistics gel is not a simulation of tissue, its just a standardized media for comparing performance, it doesnt represent what a projectile will do in living tissue. with real ballistics gel you can poke your finger right through it. And that clear synthetic ballistics gel is a lot harder than the FBI standard ballistics gel, but also breaks apart differently. That being said, hollow points show cavitation in ballistics gel too, but in real tissue they dont. they only create crushing type wound tracts that are the diameter of the expanded bullet. The diameter of a wound channel for a handgun cartridge is essentially inconsequential. shot placement and penetration depth are the two metrics that are truly important. As long as you can shoot the round well enough to have fast well placed shots, and those shots can penetrate deeply enough, then you've got a winning combination, regardless of caliber. (this only applies to handgun cartridges, things change a lot for rifle cartridges)
@@alexdrockhound9497 , Have you checked out "Phil Schumakers 9mm grizzly kill."? Not a head shot in the bunch but he stopped a charging grizzly up close w a single stack 9. What BALLS that guy has! 😁
@@tristantimothy1004 yeah, aiming center mass is definitely the best idea when it comes to a fast moving animal. trying to pull off a headshot on a charging grizzly seems like an exercise in futility to me. I personally carry a double stack 9mm. I think 9mm with a good deep penetrating bullet design should definitely be enough to stop a bear, but single stack is definitely starting to get sort of sketchy. Did you hear of that woman who killed a grizzly with a .22long? (not to be confused with .22 LR) People act like grizzly bones are made out of AR500. theyre flesh and blood like everybody else, but they are pretty thick, and pretty pissed off.
One other comment I have is about recoil,I had my 10 yr.old 60-70 lb.daughter shooting my .44 Redhawk without any problems at all & she actually enjoys the recoil & big boom & still does at 30. Full cylinders of 310gr. Handloads into a 10”plate at 20 yds. was pretty easy for her! Of course I didn’t want her to damage her small growing wrist bones so we kept shooting the big stuff to a couple cylinders. I have also taught some MEN to shoot handguns they were afraid to shoot? Hollywood ,the internet & bar talk greatly exaggerated recoil of the massive .44 magnum! A good set of rubber stocks ,proper grip & practice,recoil fear fades away. Shooting larger caliber handguns can be fun & shot accurately.
Great video guys. I've hunted Montana and Idaho for years and had a number of tense bear encounters including bluff charges, but no actual attacks. I usually carry a S&W 329PD and very well practiced with it. My load of choice is heavy Buffalo Bore 305 gr.
It isn't much help but I swapped the factory wood grips for S&W 629 rubber pair and then grips from S&W X-frame series. When practicing, I also wear high quality leather shooting gloves. Recoil is still is close to having a firecracker explode in your hand but my fingers don't swell up anymore. Fiocchi makes a 240 grain JSP that is great for practice. American Eagle and Winchester 240 gr. JSP are not as much fun.
As someone who works as a back country pilot/fishes/& hunts in the grand bear country of AK they are not usually an issue. But when they decide to be, you better have a way of deterring them. Personally I carry a 5" ported 5 shot Taurus tracker double action in .44 with 310 gr hardcast. I buy a box of 50 cowboy action loads at sportsmans every time I'm there and at least once a month I'll shoot a box of 50 to warm up, then I shoot the wheel of bear loads I've been carrying and then load a fresh wheel for carry.
I have a model 329PD 44 magnum for ease of carry. It has been quad ported by Mag-Na-Port and wears a 500 S&W Hogue recoil absorbing grip. And the lighter titanium cylinder was replaced with a stainless steel aftermarket fluted stainless steel S&W brand cylinder instead. I carry it in a Monarch Shoulder Holster made by Andrews Custom Leather. Weighs just under 30 ounces.
You both are great, I'm not a hunter or outdoorsman I would probably would be mauled by a duck.😂😂🤣 But I appreciate the experience that you both have and the stories are riveting. Thank You both👍👍
I like what you said about not being alone. Two people face-to-face can see behind each other. One person with a Ready weapon and a head on a swivel can stand guard watch for somebody else who is focused on what they're doing on the ground
Very interesting video. One of the best snd most informative i have seen.Thank you. I live in South Africa and We do not have bears that would attack hikers on the trail. The Dangerous Game is in Big reserves like Kruger and you ar not permitted to go on foot except with a Ranger,or field guide who is equipped with a 458 Win Mag. It seems bears are much more agressive and likely to attack than any game we have here. Mostly Lion, etc have a natural fear of man. Leopards are youre most likely attacks. Usually in and around Camps where the big cat has become to old to hunt fast game and they attack people. It happens but is rare. Buffalo ,Hippo Elephants,and Rino are youre big threat. So no handgun will stop them. So you never walk in big game country.So for areas that are for hiking etc you could come across Baboons or Leopard. So a 10mm Or one of the big caliber revolvers you presented would be an excellent choice.So i do follow stories about bear attack and am amqzed tha folk would actuality go unarmed on a hike in one of the many beautiful forests and wilderess areas you have in America. They probably think of winny the poo when the think of bears.They are not cuddly creatures. They are wild animals and we are intruding on their land and natural habitat.Have any bears actually been killed by handguns and stopped in their tracks.? Either way its a scary scenario. I have seen videos of Grizzlies hunting moose and they can run incredibly fast. I would not like to stake my life on any handgun.But i guess you stand a chance as opposed to no chance.
Ive had 2 close encounters and my 454 casull was perfect on my side quick deploy each time 1 was 8 yards from me on a lunge the other waa 12 and gettibf ready to rush both male grizz coming up on a fresh kill of elk that they tried to claim 2 shots the first time 1 the 2nd time but 454 casull 6 inch work perfect with a 325 gr barnea goinf 1625 fps
So nice to see Joseph for the first time. Been listening to his podcast (Backcountry Hunting podcast) for quite some time. Fantastic wealth of knowledge. Good cartridges for bear defense are as follows: 180gr .357magnum (hard cast flat nose, hot loads), these will penetrate just as much as a 44 magnum per testing 240gr and heavier .44 magnum (hard cast flat nose, hot loads) 10mm 200gr or heavier (hard cast hot loads). .45acp+p 255gr hardcast (Buffalo Bore or Underwood; the sectional density of .18 is equivalent to a 200gr 10mm) with 5" barrel, but preferably not with other options available. Also Xtreme penetrator Underwood loads, the heavier the better. .45 Super 230gr or heavier for higher sectional density. Xtreme Penetrator Underwood loads also. .460 Rowland heavy loads 45 Colt+p in strong revolvers (Ruger), at least 280+ grain. .454 Casull .480 Ruger .475 Linebaugh You can use a .460 S&W mag or equivalent but the guns get to be a cinder block and unwieldy.
I have a S&W 460XVR revolver carried in a cross-chest rig, and it's not too bad. (Also carry a Glock 20SF on the hip when in the woods out back, which is where the black bears are. Eastern NC, they get big here.) I do like to load the 460 with Buffalo Bore hardcast .454 Casulls though, not .460 Magnums. The Casulls are a little easier to handle, recoil-wise, for followup shots, and will still get the job done if I do my part.
It’s good to see a couple of men not putting the 44 magnum down. Now that you got the Smith and Wesson 460 magnum and the 500 magnum. So many people that used to treat the 44 magnum as the undisputed bear stopper on the planet. They now treat it like it’s barely good enough for rabbits. Good to see you guys have not abandon the 44 magnum as a legitimate bear gun.
This was a great watch. I am definitely a greenhorn next to these guys - great guys to go on a backcountry hunt, not just for their hunting/firearm expertise but just campfire talk and great stories. Probably wouldn’t get much sleep. Thanks boys - I say boys just because I’m probably old enough to be Joseph’s grandpa. Thanks again
I absolutely found this video extremely informative. I have been watching your videos for a long time and loved them. But this video reinforces why i carry a 10mm or 44 mag handgun when hunting. You just never know what you walk up on, or what may come up on you. Great video guys!!!
Look man you cannot compare a 10 mm to a 44 Magnum, I don't give a damn about the 10 mm capacity, come on man you got a 40 caliber bullet going 1150 ft a second that's a damn joke, and you rarely get 1200 out of a 200 grain bullet, you might get 1250 out of 180 grain but not a 200 so please man don't compare a 10 mm to a 44 Magnum
@@gregalcorn-pu5ye15 rounds of a .400 solid copper 115 grain round at over 1700 fps (chrono confirmed) doesnt suck. A 450B if I have the time. A 44 would be nice anyday if you can afford one and can find the large pistol primers. Blazer and federal 10 uses small pistol primers although the federal factory loads are weak enough i have to drop down to a 17 lb spring to keep them from stove piping
I bought a 460 Rowland kit for my 1911 several years ago. I know a 10mm is all the rage today but my Rowland gives me 50% more muzzle energy and the compensator halps me keep on target. If you can't stop a bear with 9 shots it probably doesn't matter what you are shooting
Thank you for sharing the info in todays vid, I'm a hunter/timber faller in southern OR and have had many encounters in the woods and at home with black bears and have had to shot many of them. I was charged once when I found a bear eating the cat food on the back porch late one night knowing what it was there I had my Ruger SR40 with me and it attacked so I shot him twice he then turned and ran away it was dark so I didn't know for sure where I hit it but my first was aimed at his head about 15 feet away we found it a few days late 150 yards away in thick brush it weighed in the 350 to 400lb range. Always be alert and ready even a "friendly" bear can attack and be on you in an instant.
Interesting fact; No handgun starting in .4 or larger caliber has ever been documented to fail to stop a bear attack, when at least one hit was scored.
@@Followme556, Try again bud. I worked with AK F&G for 25 years & have lived 38 years IN the bush & there's so many accounts of a 44 NOT being enough gun it's pathetic. Even the 500 mags aren't enough w/o hitting the spine or brain. Or shattering the major shoulder, hip bones. I don't know where you got your info but it's incomplete. Granted, the bears will almost always die later but during the critical " in your face" attack time they can mess you up before finally dying. Caliber Dosent mean squat. Placement is EVERYTHING. A 22 L.R. will instantly drop a griz if shot in the eye, up the nose or at the base of the ear sideways INTO where the bears brain is at. Biggest recorded kill was a native girl who killed a stalking grizzly by outsmarting it. Used its own trick against it. Led it around a big rock & climbed the rock on the backside & brainshot shot it straight down w a 22 LONG. Not an L.R. but an old Long. Basically a 22 short in a long case. 100s of documented cases of grizzlies having their heart/ lungs blown clean out of them w high powered rifles WAY stronger than any handgun & still living long enough to kill the shooter. Either gotta brain shoot em or " break em down. ( shatter enough bones to cripple em so they CANT keep chasing you) Granted, bigger is better for that but never think it's ALWAYS going to work. When the SHTF there's so many variables at play no one can trust any 1 set of " rules". I learned that the hard way. Moose attacked up close. Dumped 5 hot/heavy bear loads through it's heart in a moment & it still came crashing down on the sled. Barely had time to fling my daughter off into the deep snow & point blank the last round through both it's shoulder sockets compleatly shattering them & knocking the moose over the snow berm where it STILL managed to hobble past both sleds before getting back up on the hardpacked trail before finally collapsing. Found all 5 WFNHC slugs just under the fur rear flank later but even that didn't knock the small moose down. I can't imagine a large griz failure like that. Be wary of anybody telling you there's absolutes w any gun because they're aren't. ( Maybe a 50 BMG but who carries thoes around?)
@@tristantimothy1004 Show me the documented accounts of handguns failing to stop bear attacks. Even more importantly, show them to ammoland. Oh, right...they don't exist. Fuddlore. Handguns are 98% effective against bears, Elmer.
@@Followme556 , Check w the Alaska F&G dept records. Particularly the number of people who go missing & are never found. You know bud, not everything is documented when there's no evidences left to find. Some times one has to use their brain to figure out what happened. Unfortunately, too many clowns go bush armed w only a 44 thinking that's going to be enough & they never return & are never found..might want to check w the AK State Troopers records on missing people too. Better yet, bring your dumbass up here & go bush w only a 44 & see how long you survive. Especially when you run into a sow w 3 full grown cubs & only 6 rounds. Bigmouth.
@@tristantimothy1004 I actually would like you to direct me to where i can read the reports of these incidents you describe. Actual reports would be ideal, but news paper reports are an acceptable substitute. Because in the one actual verifiable study we have, that documents every known incident of handguns for bear defense *in world history* handguns are 98% effective.
My bear defense is a Ruger Alaskan in .460 S&W magnum with a 4" ported barrel, and 350 grain hardcast ,carried in a chest rig. I've carried it for years and had to use it once on a Grizzly while elk hunting and it saved my life. I've also had to use it on a cougar while hiking. There is no way I would trust bear spray against a full grown angry or hungry Grizzly, especially a sow with cubs. I have heard of too many instances and actually seen it fail to phase a bear charge and I had to use my handgun to stop the bear.
Brilliant discussion.The crux is to use the largest caliber YOU CAN OPERATE FAST ON THE MOVE AND HOLSTER DRAW.PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!! Large magazine capacity is a bonus. Preferably have a high powered long gun with your handgun as a backup
I bought my Ruger Super Redhawk 7.5" barrel in .454 Casull when stationed in Alaska. I carried it in a guide holster in front and on top of my clothes. 🙂
I had a firearms instructor who had 2 catchphrases that I use for training. 1. "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast." meaning you should be methodical and accurate. 2. "You cannot miss fast enough to win a gunfight" Like Joseph said, shoot accurately, speed will come.
im really surprised he recommended a kimber 1911 over a more reasonable option like a g20, after all, he was talking about hard use outdoors, 1911s arent really known for doing so well in dirty rough conditions like a glock is... and a kimber at that... really lost a lot of interest in what he had to say after that...
@@alexdrockhound9497no one will agree with anyone on everything. If someone says something I don’t agree with, I’ll still listen anyway because they might say something I like. I’ve learned things from people I thought were idiots and had no respect for decades ago
This was a great discussion. My one grumble (and not about the video) is that practicing with a big bore caliber is super expensive. These rounds are going for $1.50 to $2.00 a round. I carry a .45 long colt in the mountains of New Mexico. Mostly for mountain lions or black bear. I try to get as much practice in as possible, but have now started conserving my ammo cause I would rather have it and not need it, then practice and not have it. Again great content. You got yourself a new subscriber.
No on the plus power for standard 45 colt. Get into reloading. If revolver you can shorten 454 casull brass which uses small primers as 45 colt brass. The primer seats a little deeper by not much but still works. Small primers are cheaper and easier to find
👍👍decades ago long before the 458 or 500 or other bigger calibers came out 44 mag was king. And your assessment of the 300 grain was right in line with an article covering the same topic in a magazine I'm too old to remember said about best sidearm to carry in Grizzly country. Do know they were correct. 300 grain has way more penetration power than the standard 240 grain. Practice is always key as well. Being familiar and comfortable with any of your firearms is as important as caliber or bullet choice. A well placed shot is better than emptying a clip and missing. Great show!
I'm a cross draw guy too! No clue why so many run strong side... Cross draw rules. M&P 10mm full size with Buffalo Bore copies (I make my own now) with 17+1 is my hunting sidearm for hunting here in Montana.
Having done field work in the northern Canadian bush for over 35 years, I had to shoot 2 bears and 1 cougar during actual charges at very close range. All charges happened within seconds and all animals were killed at less than 5 yards. What I find nobody mentions in all these defense videos, is the psychological fact of surprise. I have seen quite a few good shooters (on target ranges) that actually stiffened up and forgot that they had a gun in their hands when confronted with a real situation. In order to survive a real situation, shooting your gun has to become second nature to you and that happens only after tens of thousands of shots and lots of practice, especially on moving targets. A once in a while weekend practice with one box of ammo will not get you there!
Guns that have sharp recoil and are hard on wrists tend to make people flinch. The 44 mag, S&W 500 are two rounds that can be too harsh for some people especially when in short barrel configurations. I have found that the Ruger 480 has a much milder recoil with the ability to drive a 400gr bullet at 1200 fps without breaking your wrist. They made a short barrel version I think was called the Alaskan. Anyway great reviews.
If you carry a semiautomatic handgun for bear defense, if it has a rail on the frame, put a weapon light on it that protrudes a bit past the muzzle so that if a bear is on top of you you push that weapon light into the bear and it not interfere with the cycling of your slide.
That's a good idea. Another good idea is keeping a handgun on each side of your body. I've talked about in one of my bear defense videos where a guy was being attacked and he couldn't get to his bear spray because his arm was in the bear's mouth. Luckily he had a gun on his other side that he did have access to. Guns are obviously more effective anyhow. Because bear spray worked in only 33% of aggressive brown charges according to a study that I mention in my videos.
Yeap. That's why revolvers are more popular when camping as a back up gun. Semi-auto handguns have their place. But if you have that muzzle right up against an animal of that MASS on top of you. Not going to fire. Light deal, is a good idea,
I can't stress enough how important it is to listen to real experts and hunters like these men. Lack of my own experience almost killed me. I got myself into a very bad situation with a 500+ pound Texas hog when I went to the cage with just .44 specials loaded in my Model 29. I was alone, it was night, and I just had a Wal-Mart flashlight. I didn't drive the ATV or the car up to it, I walked out. Once again, dumb and arrogant. I knew it was big, just not 600 pounds big... I shot that animal all six times before it charged, and flipped the cage, it was 5 foot away with a bead on me, and I was standing with an empty revolver. Use Magnum rounds! I luckily had a ghm9, which is like a tec-9 under my arm, I tucked the pistol under my left armpit and fired about 15 rounds at the animal, with at least 1 bouncing off its forehead, it turned and ran about 50 feet, and I fired 10 morehitting it's side, but was not dead. I had to speed load 6 magnum rounds into the Smith & Wesson, it took 3 more to the head before it died. The cage had a broken weld and the tooth matched the scrape. Anyone who deals with a very large animal like a bear can attest, and this is the most important thing - a charging or attacking animal is much different than an unexpected shot, in that the animal can take much more. You can kill a Grizzly easy with any round when it isn't looking, wait for a heart shot, but a charging animal is much different. A Bear obviously, but also a big hog, a bull (Longhorns) and moose need big rounds. The hog I shot was over 9 foot stretched out and could only be lifted by a Deere 5150 full size tractor. The thing may have been 700 and I have photos.
Some great info! I'll probably never be in a position to encounter more than a black bear in the back yard or on a hike. I'm glad he mentioned 10mm as being adequate. I am currently looking at a Rock Island 2011 in 10mm with a 16+1 capacity
I have one and really like it but it's a heavy sucker with that all steel frame, almost considering getting a Glock 20 to save a full pound of weight while backpacking.
Glocks have versatility. Have spring rods from 17 lb to 24 lb for my hot load 45acp rounds in 45 super or 45 win mag shortened brass. 10 mm conversion i also shoot 40 s&w in. The extractor catches the extractor groove in the brass case. Same as 45acp or super in a 460 rowland gun. When the 10 mm case mouths start splitting, can shorten to 40 length and load as 40. Ill shallow seat a little too. 777 works in 10mm with 175 grain bullet mould but with black powder substitutes, same as black powder applies. No airspace. 10 mm in the bottom of the mag and 40 in the top for city defense. 40 for target and 10 for everywhere else. Lone wolf the titanium spring rod comes apart at both ends. Titanium pins everywhere else. Black powder dirties the gun big time. Complete strip down. Versatility 😊
I just love listening to you guys talk about anti bear guns and ammo as I carry my 38 snubby here in an Ohio city lol.but if I ever take that Yellowstone vacation, I'll have a plan .
Ron and Joseph, I’m a 30 yr Forest Service employee here in Idaho. Back in the day were trained, if you were working in the field in Alaska, with a 375 H&H rifle. No field work if you don’t qualify. But working with the public who come to Idaho for recreational purposes or the big national parks in Wyoming and Montana have no clue about the dangers of the big animals. I was told, in a training session, the a full grown grizzly can out run a thoroughbred race horses in the first 100yrds! But in 2023 people still hike with tinker bells and bear spray. I see a hiker got killed in Glacier recently. But I have to tell both of you: this video was the most thought provoking video I’ve ever watched on UA-cam! I do not have a close range personal weapon but do carry a 338-378 Weatherby while hunting. I’ve been looking for a pistol for awhile and could not decide as I did not know what to think. The 40 Kimber masses since to me now. Thank you so much for taking the time to educate and explain this to me.
Carrying a big handgun is tiring. Ounces make pounds sir! Very cool video.. The more I think about it, the more I think I would carry either a .357 with buffalo bore bullets or a 10 mm with the same.. Great video.. Had to watch again!
Anyone interested in this subject, the site *ammoland* has done a years long ongoing study of the subject of handguns for defense against bear attacks, of every single verifiable bear attack in world history where a handgun was used in defense. It is an extremely informative study, and blows away a lot of myths. Great read that I highly recommend.
@@xtreme4stringbass Yep. the ammoland study absolutely destroys the fuddlore that you need some big mega magnum. Based on the stats a deep penetrating 9mm+P+ is plenty sufficient (that M1152 round is actually putting out +P+ performance, not sure what psi its loaded at), and anything more than 10mm is probably counter productive.
@@nomorerainbows What makes them even angrier is when I tell them the reason that .44 magnum is known as the "minimum caliber" is because of an old USGS "study" where they shot different guns into a mixture of sand and silt. The conclusion from this nonsense was that .44 was the minimum needed. I've also measured the amount of time that different handguns calibers take to kill or down animals. There is no practical difference between the calibers that was used (10mm, .357, .44, etc.).
Ron and Joseph covered the topic very well. I have Blacks and Browns on my land year round. When carrying a handgun, I typically prefer a Glock 20 loaded with 200 or 220 grain flat tip hard cast or FMJ, but I also use a S&W 29 4" on occasion. While I have not yet had any serious encounters with the bruins, there have been several maulings and deaths in my area of Montana over the past decade, all due to the poor attitude or tactics of the people involved. I believe you should always be prepared for the worst scenario, even if the possibility is remote. With regard to handgun selection I would add the 357 Magnum loaded with 180 hard cast flat tipped bullets. The 40 S&W also has a good track record. Just make sure the ammo you choose is well constructed and won't mushroom or come apart when it enters the beast. Not all cast bullets or FMJs meet the required standard. Practice and familiarity with your handgun are paramount.
Paladin, For what it's worth. I worked w AK F& G & by our stats your grizzlies are just freiking mean. Smaller but WAY more AGGRESSIVE than our northern bears are. We travel a LOT & spent lots of time in Montana's backwoods van camping. On 1 trip by a big wide but very shallow river where the state had put in picnic tables alongside the river we had a griz circle all day around our camp back & forth from waters edge to waters edge on the far side & he was grumbling & popping his jaws & in general letting us clearly know HE wasn't happy with us being there. I had my standard Alaska 45/70 up on the table & when it got dark the bear left. ( We thought, we were wrong.) After dinner by the Coleman lantern on the table my wife wanted a picture of that spot w the river behind her. We had the old flashcube type film cameras so I stood a few feet away & took the pic. Went into the van for the night. Next morning that bears tracks were EVERYWHERE in our camp. He'd circled the van many times close enough to rub it. We left the next day..AFTER we got back to Alaska we sent the cameras in to be developed. Imagine our surprise to see the bear only feet behind my wife in the river sneaking up on her in her shadow & using the rivers noise to cover his approach unseen by either of us. Not even our very bear wary dog knew! She never said squat & she usually goes ape shit when bears are around. Not a sound. During the day she was staying close to me & the rifle with her low bear growl pointing him out as he crused back & forth but knows better than to go chase em. That sucker had waited all day to sneak up on us in the dark & could have easily nailed us both before I could grab the rifle only feet away. We figure the flash going off in it's face spooked it & it left still using my wife's lantern shadow to cover it's exit. Spooky stuff there bud!!
@@tristantimothy1004 Now you're giving me the willies. We've had them in our front garden, back yard, side yard, and down by the barn near the horses (the only one I was able to get a photo of). Of course I can pretty much say this about cougars, wolves, and coyotes, but they don't put the fear of God in me. I'm glad you didn't have a serious run-in with them.
@@Paladin1873 , Living out here in the Alaskan bush for 38 years I've been bear attacked 5 times. Twice by grizzlies, 3 times by blackies. The griz don't scare me. The blackies do. Sneaky bastards who silently come in from behind & hit the head or spine to paralize first & then eat you alive. Cougars freik me out too for the same reason. Luckily, we don't have those up here. Sneaky ambush suckers. Easy to deal with something coming at you head on but thoes stealth hunters are bad news. From the F&G reports I've seen your grizzlies are much the same. Sneaky ambush hunters. Even the Lewis & Clark expedition reports made special notes of how AGGRESSIVE & smart your grizzlies are. Up here, we have dogs. Several. They tell us when anything's near & they have special barks for each critter. We usually know where & what long before they're dangerously close. My huskie goes EVERYWHERE w me. Back during the Montana trip I was stunned our Aussie ( prime bear dog of that decade) never said squat about the griz circling our van all night. Never knew til we opened the door the next day & the entire site was carpeted with it's tracks. Muddy footprints on the picnic table, on the vans sides/ windows. THAT was spooky enough to change locations. Add, the dog DIDNT wake us up. That was just too weird. I have hunting friends in Montana. Their stories are better than mine.😁But they BELEIVE in the 3 S' es. Shoot em, Shovel em, Shut up about it. Apparently your F&G dept can be just as big of rectums as ours is even in a legal self defense shoot. We love Montana, almost moved there but our Alaskan son wouldn't leave & our grandchildren are here. After Obama screwed Montana by gating off all the federal lands & screwing up everybody there it became less reasonable. Love the people. Same free, independent, brave spirit as Alaska. Amazingly, Arizona was very similar too until California bunnyhugger transplants moved in & screwed it up. Seems everywhere they go they bring the same stupid mindset with them that destroyed California.Alaskas being over run now too. Same stupidity. But that's a book best left closed. Glad I'm old now but pity our younger generation. They will never know the freedoms we took for granted. Sad.....
3" Raging Judge. Yes, I'm from TX. Carry it because we have hogs, bobcats, coyotes, and snakes with bears on the way. I like the ability to select rounds.
What about .460 Rowland? That's my go to bear handgun in what began as a Glock 21. I had to upgrade the magazine springs to accommodate the increases slide speed in addition to the other upgrades, which makes loading 13 too tough to seem to be a good idea, but 12 + 1 of 1000 ft-lbs of energy with a well-functioning compensator is a lot of power in a relatively light package. The polymer frame is also much more forgiving to the shooter than a short barrel .44 mag.
Lone wolf has a titanium spring rod that unscrews at both ends. My glock is a gen 4 so i had to use some washers at the magazine end of the spring rod😂. 17 lb to 24 lb springs. I had broken an all stainless spring rod and springs from someone else that had broken. I ended up getting titanium pins for the entire glock off midway. I use 460 rowland brass shortened for my high powered acp rounds i load hot. Couldnt get the rowland conversion so did as much work around as possible
Im confused. I'm in my 60's, have hunted most of my life, and been interested in handguns for most of that time as well. In all that time, everything i've heard and read claimed that the 357mag was too small for bear. Absolutely not for browns. I can understand that. Now, here's what has me confused. In the last few years, i'm hearing/reading that the 10mm is "the caliber" for bear hunting or defence. 10mm and 357mag are VERY close in their ballistics. I'm sure you can see my confusion.
My wife and I used to take our 35 foot Class A Motor Home to Arizona, from South Dakota every winter to get away from the cold and snow, we loved the trip and always had a wonderful time while down there. I pulled my Jeep behind and once sit up in a camp ground the Jeep was our means of exploration in the desert and mountains of that great state. I always carried a M1911A1 unless we were going to cross over the line and enter California, we camped just a mile from that State Line. I keep it stuffed with 230 grain hardball loaded to standard military specs. I never had to use it, thank God but I was always comfort able having it on my belt when we ventured out in the desert, or into the cities. Alas I lost my good wife just days after our 51st wedding anniversary in 2020, and sold off the RV a few years ago, well basically gave it away to get out from under the Monthly payments and insurance costs.
I bought two revolvers in different calibers. Both had the same sites. I filed one down and left the other alone. To site them in. I never knew they planned for that before your video. Thanks 👍🏼
As an Army Ranger and former guide in North Western Montana, who has encountered many grizzly bears, the best firearm i used was a Glock 21 with Buffalo Bore ammunition. Hard cast, +p+ rounds out of a .45 gets really close to a .44 Mag ballistics in a semi automatic, fairly light weight hand gun. The main thing is know when a bear is close and respect it. We did lose some elk kills to grizzlies, but once the bear had control of the food, there was no danger. I figured with all my training and 13, high power, rounds, if the bear killed me it's my time to go. Many times I chose to relocate the hunt because of fresh sign of a Mamma bear and her Kiddos too close for comfort.
Great information...I carry a 5in 45 auto...Nine rounds in the gun....At least on humans, the Federal 230gr. "Hydra Shok" gets around 97% one shot stops. I don't worry about bear, here in S.E. Arizona. But mountain lion ARE on my mind, after seeing one in person. It was not cute. If high up, FMJ with max velocity would be my choice.
Your right. They don't make the hot loads I used to buy any more. After reviewing what is available, there are does and don'ts not previously, expressed as well. I'm sure there's a good reason.
I love Ron Spomer and his guest; there is a lot of good advice givien. I just want to introduce my own personal handgun bear cartridge for those who reload or know someone who reloads. I have done a private patent on this load for those who want more than a 44 mag and find a 454 Casul too much handgun. I call this wildcat load "The 45 Crandall Magnum" It starts out with a 454 Casul case's trimmed down to 15,000 of an inch below the maximum length; that's 5,000 of an inch below the trim too length and primed with a small pistol magnum primer . Next, I use either Horady 458, 350 grain flat point or round noes soft point's sized down to 451 using Lee sizing dies. You might want to go from 454 to 452 to 451. Use lots of sizing wax! These are rifle caliber bullets with thicker jackets and soft lead cores and I load them with 21.5 grains of Win 296 (you can go higher, but use CAUTION; work up a load! I personally recomend staying at 21.5 grains of Win 296. These loads are superior to any 44 Magnum Load of comparable strength and knockdown power and should only be only fired out of a Ruger 45 Long Colt Black Hawk Revolvers not any colt clones Ruger or otherwise! NOTE: I've never tried using 45 long colt cases with large pistol primers. Only use the 454 Casul cases trimmed to 15,000 psi below maximum or 5,000 psi below minimum to be safe. Good luck with these loads. I take NO responsibility for the misuse of the instrutions abouve. Gary
A back woods handgun should be very similar to your every day carry handgun. So when you train with your EDC it will also apply to your back woods handgun.
As someone who has carried firearms professionally for decades, in the military, in big cities, and in bear country, I 100% agree with you. In fact I would recommend using the *same* gun all the time as much as possible.
True, but if you normally carry a .25 auto you're only going to piss it off. A .380 might work if you don't miss at all. You really need something that will drop it fast, or it's going to kill you before it dies.
@@okgroomer1966 In the few documented incidents where a .380 has been used for bear defense, it has been 100% effective in stopping the attack. Handguns overall are 98% effective in documented cases, at stopping bear attacks.
I tend to hunt in the worst possible areas of Wyoming for Grizzly bears. They are everywhere! I have been around people that have killed them in self defense, around problem bears that break into vehicles at the trailhead, and bears that claim my friends elk that they left overnight. Last year I was making an evening hunt an hour before dark and I caught the smell of a Griz close by. I went on high alert and backed my way out of there. I typically carry a 338 RUM loaded hot with heavy bullets, I also carry a Taurus Raging Bull 454 Cassul with 300 gr bullets. Two years ago my buddy shot a 4 point mule deer buck while I was elk hunting and he needed to finish it off. I handed him my 454 loaded hot with 300 gr nosler partion handgun bullets. He shot the deer 3 times behind the shoulder and each time the deer would drop with the shot and then 30 seconds later get back on his feet. The 4th shot was in the neck and finished him. I don't know what the issue was with those bullets, but I don't carry them anymore. None of those bullets penetrated to the off side of the deer at 5 feet. I am now shooting Lehigh Defense extreme penetrators in 300 gr. As a test I shot an 8 inch pine tree and the bullet blew through like butter. These bullets have flutes machined in the nose and are constructed of solid copper. They make a larger wound channel than hard cast bullets and should cause more blood loss due to the sharp edges of the machining. I have also switched to these in my Glock 20 10mm with 155 gr Lehigh Defense Extreme Defenders. I carry both of these handguns in a cross chest holster mainly because it isn't in the way of my backpack. You are correct about the binocular issue though and my bino's are in a padded case. Over the years I have reduced the items in my back pack, but when in Griz country I usually always opt for the 454. I have started using an electric fence around my tent too, because sometimes I am alone in the high country.
You need extreme penetrators not extreme defense ammo if that's what you choose.....extreme defense will run out of steam before reaching the vitals of a bear.
@@stevenp8198 there is no real world evidence to back that claim, as bear attacks have been successfully ended many times with calibers and cartridges that typically have far less than the usual 16"-18" penetration of xtreme defender type rounds.
@@mtman2 the data says hand guns stop bear attacks 98% of the time. That is a lot of good luck. Or maybe Bears just aren't anywhere near as unstoppable as the internet lore suggests.
@@Valorius lol= like w/Fauxci~ "Trust the data" & "Safe N Effective" Here's more "data" =1,200+people a yr go missing in Alaska- many are never found; ...likely bear food...!
Having had to use the bear spray in Southeast Alaska I was very impressed at well it worked. I was working very remotely, helicopter location for a mining company. Killing a bear was to be avoided, we kept large sized bear attack spray in several locations, sleeping tent, cook tent, work area. A black bear stuck his head through the no seeum screen of the tent window. I was standing about three feet from the window. I grabbed the spray and let loose at point blank range, about two feet from my hand to the bears face. The bear screamed and bellered, pulled his head out of the tent and was still screaming as it ran over the ridge.
Redbrick, Had a similar experience our 1st year in Alaska. A baby griz was molesting our fish smoker but ran off when I went outside. Called F&G on the radio phone & they told me to Educate the cub by blasting him with the spray. Next day dogs went off + I could see the trail leaving the smoker so I grabbed the new magnum can & went after it. 20 minutes later I'm on the far ridge, can in hand ready to fire, leaning up against a big tree to catch my breath & I feel breathing on the back of my neck. Turning around I'm face to face with a BIG griz . HE wasn't attacking, just curious about this new critter in his area. I panicked! Shot that entire can right in his face from 2 inches away, most of it going right up his nose. The overspray right into his eyes too. That poor bear bellowed & ran off screaming & running blind until I couldn't hear it anymore. I was pretty green back then. No gun ON me at all. Since then I've wised up & don't go out the door unarmed. Seen/ heard of too many spray failures. That bears tracks NEVER came back anywhere near our remote cabin.
(33:20) What he’s talking about was literally Wild Bill Hickok’s morning routine. He would empty his 2 colt navy revolvers. Then he cleaned them inspected, removed them and went on with his day. He always had a little practice and fresh powder!!!
I mainly carry a S&W 460V 395CPB Gas Check with my Glock 20 or 40 Underwood 200HC for grizzly country. The 460V recoil is enormous and takes lots of practice. My Glock 20 and 40 both have an Alpha Wolf barrel and a McNally trigger assembly.
Glock 20 or 40. Have you shot 40s&w in it? The 40 has to go to the back of the magazine and the extractor catches the extractor groove in the bullet case. I dont shoot factory 40 much. I light load 200 grain bullets these days in the 40 after the case mouths in my 10mm brass starts splitting the case mouth. Shorten the brass to 40 length and load as 40. Shallow seat a little for extra consolation 😊
The reason the soldier dropped to one knee, is because if you're standing and have to shoot at a bear running toward you, if you shoot at the head your bullet may hit the bear in the rear end because it's moving so fast. If you drop to one knee the bullet is traveling the length of the bear. That's why he got one center to chest and one in the head!
Right on 👍
Needed to be said.
Another way to state the same point: drop to one knee so you don't have to track your aim as the bear is approaching, your aim stays at the same angle / more likely to hit where you need to.
Excellent point.🐧
Well put,,,iv never heard this advice before,,,
True alot of ppl shoot over the bear especially with a rifle. bears are extremely fast Steve ishdal said this as well in one of his bear stories.
I legitimately didn’t know Ron knew pistols existed??? First time I’ve seen a video on a “short gun”!!!
Hunters should always have a sidearm.
What is this pistol voodoo you speak of?
@@joeyindahl2593 Why, the 1911 made by St. Browning chambered in God's caliber .45 ACP of course. It will not only kill your adversary's body but also their soul.
It’s a short rifle I think
Guy's, don't sleep on that 1911 in 45acp, the key is running it with 45 Super 255grn hardest, 230 or 185grn Underwood extreme defense or extreme penetrator or Buffalo bore rounds If You can't hand load. You need the fully supported chamber/ barrel( typical of almost any standard 1911 in 45) a 22 to 28lb recoil spring, get that 15 or 16lb out of there for running the Super cartridges. Proper loadings of this is equally capable of better than 10mm, basically it's personal preference at that point. Perhaps this fella hasn't heard much about this little known cartridge. Stay safe, GOD bless and help us all.
I taught school in a Native village on the Yukon and carried a .41 magnum with 220 hard cast Buffaloes Bore. Back then everyone had either a .44 mag. or .41 magnum. The people carrying the .44 mag. said they just bought the biggest they could. The .41 magnum people explained that the.41 traveled further in the bear and the lesser recoil allowed for a follow up shot with more precision in aiming!
I see more people talking about the .41 but it really deserves more attention. Awesome round
The people that have a 41 magnum love it to death.
41 mag for me👍
I have 2-41 magnums I shoot more accurately with them than my 44 Magnum. Less recoil
@@robertohlund9408
Do you reload? Or do you have any issues finding ammo?
When I hunted with Phil in 1995, my guide made me stand guard, constantly rotating 360 degrees, with my .338 while Phil’s guide skinned my bear.
FYI, squared 9’10”
Great outfitter!
Saw 30 moose, and 27 bears in 1 day. It was the most intense hunt I’ve ever been on.
It’s a great story, I in my life
Love how these two are sitting so close together and in front of camera. Feels like someone is sitting across and talking to you. Subscribed!
Timely video, Ron. A man was just killed in a bear attack this morning a couple miles down the road from me in Arizona. Completely unprovoked, a male black bear attacked him while he was sitting in a chair and enjoying his coffee.
The usual suspects, huh?
Black bears in Arizona?
@20alphabet it was socioeconomic bear conditions
@@borkwoof696 yep there is a large population in the mountains around Flagstaff and the canyon
@@borkwoof696 Some of the largest in the country. And widespread, even in Sonoran desert habitats.
I carried a 4” S&W 29 for years in Wyoming during bow season and when fishing in the back country. It is heavy, but I practiced a lot with it and had complete confidence in it. Saved my partners life once with that gun.
Bear attack?
Same gun saved my life
@hotwheel6663 no, shot his charging wife when she figured out he was cheating.
Lol
@@hotwheel6663 bull moose charge, in camp at 10 yards
Anyone that references Outlaw Josey Wales is definitely at the top of my A list. Looking forward to hearing more from this young man.
Pa? Is that you Pa? I got the gold right here Pa. The gold that me and Josey robbed from the bank. Love that scene.
I just watched that movie yesterday. I love it
I named my Drahthaar (game dog) Josey Wales
@@offroadsoda Just looked up Drahthaar. Is it the same as a German Wirehaired Pointer?
When things are looking bad and it doesn’t look like you’re going to make it. That’s when you gotta get mean. I mean plumb mad dog mean, because if you lose your head you neither win nor live. That’s just the way it is.
Ron of all the shows that you have put together, I think this one will rank as one of the most important and meaningful. For those big game hunters ( especially bowhunters ) that hunt in grizzly country, what could be more important than having an expert prepare you for an encounter with a bear. The grizzly population has increased significantly occupying much more land area in several western states., not to mention black bears. Wheather you are cleaning a carcass ( some experts claim that bears can associate a gun shot with meat on the ground ) or just slipping quietly through dense timber, having a bear encounter should always be on your mind. Thanks for the info. as always. You may have saved a life.
Georgeclark, Ya, thats a big problem up in Kodiak. The bears know a gunshot means food on the ground & come running. Ive heard thats starting to happen in Montana too. And thoes bears are a LOT more AGGRESSIVE than Alaskan bears are. Smaller, but meaner.
Oh yeah that rifle shot is like a dinner bell in the moose woods of Alaska
Ive pondered that one a while now. A bear associating gunfire with food. Makes me not want to target practice. Almost. Definitely at least in the morning and not towards night😊
Thank you for your informative video. The five inch barrel double action .454 Casull is my choice. Single actions just require a lot of fine motor skills; and the situation you’re carrying for dictates they should be minimized. Anyone carrying a semi automatic should always have a round in the chamber; and if it’s a 1911, cocked and locked is proper protocol.
I have my ruger alaskan 454 for years in NW Montana but find myself carrying my Glock 20 in the woods now day!
Tragic story in Wyoming. I had camped about 10 miles West of where that happened just a month before. Really hit home. I pray for that man's family.
That is a tragic story, but good to dissect it and speculate how it could have been avoided. Not to put blame on either individual but we learn from our (or other's) mistakes. What about carrying a 12ga. with slugs or buck shot? Is that effective on a big bear?
@@manstersr That's why I'm here watching this vid. I don't go out hiking anywhere where there are bears but I wonder what gun could have saved them if the bear spray didn't.
@@damienholland8103 You need a 10mm or bigger!!! They can get a bit heavy and difficult to handle!!! But you've got to do whatever is necessary!!!
My buddy killed a bull in archery season and made a trip and came back to a Grizz on his elk, he said they will follow hunters and have no problem getting aggressive, there's so many of them they are fighting eachother so they are always down for a fight
6th7@@damienholland8103
I enjoy listening to your show, I’ve learned a lot. I lived in Alaska for 33 years and work as a paramedic part of my duty is bear watch/ bear hazing.
I noticed you said not many bear attacks in Alaska, there’s quite a few they don’t make the news anymore like they used to. I’ve had by two neighbors attacked by grizzlies, a coworker as a flight medic had two patients badly mauled
by brown bears . Heard or read numerous accounts of people using pepper spray during a bear attack not one case did it have any effect on the bear. I carry a 44 mag a 454 Casul. Thanks for your UA-cam channel.
ive met a large number of people who have had success with bear spray. Ive also met a number of people who have had success with handguns and long guns. They all have their time and place and drawbacks.
@@alexdrockhound9497, Willing to bet your LIFE on spray that hardly ever works & NEVER in a real attack. AK F&G for 25 years bud & spray belongs in a dumpster. It's only bunnyhugger morons who say it works all the time. It DOSENT & should be banned completely.
I agree, as an Alaska resident for 63 years, we know that many Bear, and moose, encounters are not reported often. As well, homeowners here carry, and do execute a charging threat, call troopers after, case settled
@@alexdrockhound9497 Have you ever spoken with someone who didn't have good luck with bearspray? There are very few!!!
Thanks for sharing that.
It's called the " Michigan stance".
Drop to one knee , and with a two hand hold, with your left elbow on the left raised knee. Just reverse for left handed draw.
It is very stable, and works with alot of
different animals, because you don't have to constantly adjust for the angle of approach as you do standing.
That stance would require a bit of courage. You're in a better position to shoot, but not the best position to run should bullets fail.
@@Shaylokhow do you plan to run from a bear or watever is charging at you. Last time, if i remember correctly we are the slowest and that doesnt take into account the individual physical body in that situation.
@@Corteslatinodude God was going for overkill when he invented the bear - Built like a Mac truck and yet moves like a muscle car.
I never thought about it before. But the Michigan stance makes a lot of sense to me. You're better off taking the Michigan stance so you can take a good shot so the bullet travels the length of the beer rather than constantly trying to adjust you're aim. I mean let's face it. If a bear is charging you you got seconds not several minutes. And last time I checked humans cannot outrun bears.
Michigan stance- drop to one knee and pray...Hardy har har
In another discussion, there was a hunting guide who says he skips the handgun approach entirely in bear country. He carries an AR-SBR chambered in 450 SOCOM and wears it in a chest rig. Maybe not as convenient as a handgun but he's going to be more accurate and will have a lot more rounds to send down range.
Yup, all you have to do is look at the ballistic performance of any center fire big game rifle and compare that to the muzzle energy of any "magnum" handgun. Unless we're talking about ridiculously powerful handguns like the .500 S&W, having recoil that most people are incapable of handling, the terminal ballistics of just about any big game hunting rifle at 100-200 yards is far superior to just about any "magnum" handgun's terminal ballistics at the muzzle.
thanks to our lib gov that's illegal now.. they get their jollies when a hunter is attacked
This is probably the best answer in what to carry in bear country
@@markihde4381, Handguns are only a backup when you can't get your rifle into play, which is MOST of the time in a real, up close bear attack. However, the 10mm is taking over here in Alaska as the PRIMARY bear deterrent. It works, light, fast & instinctive shooting when there's no time to aim w massive firepower. And, most likely to be kept ON you all the time. A rifle you have to swing into play or is just an inch out of reach might as well be on the moon for all the good it will do you when the SHTF. Most bear attacks start around 15 yards or less. You'll have 1-maybe 2 seconds to react before it has you. Alaska bushman 30 years, multiple attacks. Only twice was I able to use my rifle which was IN my hand. 45/70 lever gun. Other attacks were at point blank range. No time for the rifle.
@@tristantimothy1004 3.5 inch .44 mag is a must for bear country
Alaskan here - Yes, bush pilots that transport hunters usually have a pile of bear spray and also camp stove fuel they will let you pick from. They carry bear spray and fuel in the plane floats or other outside storage. I carry a 10mm model 1911. It’s a thumper and is very reliable. I like that it is flat. Several years ago, a guy in Kenai was attacked by a brown bear and he shot it with his .44 Magnum revolver. He got four shots off when the gun jammed. One of the bullets had moved forward under the heavy recoil and pulled out of the case far enough to bind the cylinder. So if you do carry heavy loads, make sure the crimp is really tight!
Joseph seems like a great addition to the team
My uncle had a black bear sow charge back in the early 80's. He put 4 rounds of 30-06 into it mid charge with his old rem 700. It dumped at his feet a mere yard from my cousin (7yo at the time)
I can only imagine the the gust of air he let put when that resolved!
Those blackies are a bit underrated. Tough, is what I have encountered.
I know the story you're talking about, it happened fairly recently, and it was sick. Furthermore, I heard that the bear spray can was found to have been fully used. Additionally, a couple and their dog were recently killed in Montana by a brown bear, and it took help a day later to get there to rescue them, but they passed away. This couple had a total of two bear spray cans that were fully used as well, and they failed. Bear spray is being overhyped and I feel that it could result in lawsuit territory at some point if this continues. Sure, use the spray as a first resort, but back it up with a firearm.
Bear spray probably works great for a bear wanting inside a cooler in camp or some random curiosity bear.
But an angry bear?, I doubt it. I imagine an angry Grizzly is like putting nitrous in a bulldozer.
Thank you for mentioning the best handgun is the one you can and will take with you. For me it’s a 10mm (with 200 or 220 grain HC). The big wheel guns are just too heavy for me, and I can handle a semi-auto better. The medium revolvers with 5 rds weigh about the same as my XDMe with 10 rds. I live where there are grizzlies and wolves, so I’ll take the extra rounds. I’ll also carry a handgun AND bear spray, depending on what I’m doing.
A great topic to cover. We can never be too careful out there because lives can depend on our ability to stop a threat. Enjoyed seeing Ron and Joseph in a video again.
Any US city is orders of magnitude more dangerous.
4 legs / 2 Legs.
@@johnwallace7694or no legs. I worry about those bastards too😬
In Arizona my risk from a bear attack is relatively low but my risk from feral dogs ( we lost a young lady on the Navajo Reservation recently) and feral people is real. One logical option is .357 from my Gp 100 or my 686
I actually made a video about surviving dog attacks if you're interested.
I've also made videos about bear defense and .357 magnum is more than capable. With proper hardcast lead loads it has well over 64 inches of penetration in clear ballistics gel.
ua-cam.com/video/vPkmP29zjp8/v-deo.html
That's what I pack in Colorado. Ammo selection is important. I use 180 grain hard cast flat nose moving around 1300 fps.
You have feral humans there too ? That's frightening
@@Diego-m3g6g every one and every place has feral people... It's just response time sucks where you have 10 people or less per square mile.
Feral people?
I think the soldier dropped to one knee to be on the same plane as the bear. That way you don't have angle intersection shooting, it would be flat, straight on. Easier to hit the target. Smart move.
I describe in this video why doing that is not necessarily a good idea. ua-cam.com/video/oFTqBOeZgV0/v-deo.html
I talk about that at roughly 24:20 in the video.
@@infogunvault6920Good show I enjoyed it Obviously he was staying calm and thinking about bullet placement. Going to one knee leaves the other knee in an elevated position which can be used as a rest for an elbow to steady the aim. Right knee, for right handed people, left elbow on the raised knee, two handed grip. Shooting off hand is quicker but not as steady. While in the Military I used to turn my right foot to lay flat on the ground and sat on it for the kneeling position, Range Master allowed it because I was not sitting on the ground.
The soldier dropping to one knee is what we called a “training scar”. When we were firing and didn’t have an actual barricade we simulated by dropping to one knee. Awesome video guys! Thanks.
Hahaha, not.
I'm not sure that barricades have much to do with it. We were always taught that your steadiest shot is prone. Next best is kneeling or sitting, whichever you can, and that standing fire with no braces is simply done for mobility or better visual range. It is inherently the least accurate position.
Most practical of your videos; thank you.
We all struggle with this question. For me 1911 vs Colt 45.
I lean to 1911 because of concern of bears vs concern of wolves.
Living here the Interior of Alaska i can say around half of the hunters here carry 10mm mostly in a Glock and the other half are wheel gunners. Myself included. But every single 1 ive met carry hard cast. 454 casull for me. Good topic yall👍
Saw a comment from a hunting guide that had many encounters with black and grizzly bears. He stated the charge of a grizzly bear and the amount of ground it can cover can not be over emphasized. He recommended that if you have to shoot a charging bear, go to a knee (as you described the military man doing) and shoot at the bear parallel to the ground, or,, based on it's amazing speed, your shots are most likely going to be hitting the ground behind the bear because you won't be swinging down on the bear fast enough to engage it before it's on you.
Grizzly bears can run at 40mph.
I describe in this video why doing that is not necessarily a good idea.ua-cam.com/video/oFTqBOeZgV0/v-deo.html
I talk about that at roughly 24:20 in the video.
Good thing I'm short so a slight bend in the knee would suffice for me.
Killed one charging bear at the base of a snow slide on the edge of a spruce forest. No way was I going to get down on one knee. Might as well as made it two and prayed for all the good that would have done me.
@@interrestrial9815 what is the point in staying standing up? Its not like youre gonna outrun the thing. By kneeling you get a nice straight shot. I would say circumstances would dictate whether to kneel or stand.
But hey...nice shooting man!
I grew up in Alaska when ever my family would go out hunting or we would go fishing. My dad would carry a Mossberg 500 with a pistol grip 3 slugs and 2 buck. We’ve had encounters with bears but by the time we would see them they are high tailing it away from us. However we did have more run-ins with moose and nearly ran over.
I also grew up in Alaska. The only bears I saw were blacks and I never saw their faces, just the hind end rapidly getting smaller. But that doesn't mean the next one would have a different attitude, so we always stayed on guard.
To me this is the best bear defense, that shotgun
I’ve been in Alaska all my life and I’ve seen all three bears, Polar, brown including Kodiak, and black. Easy to see browns and blacks around Anchorage. Last summer saw blacks 3 times and brown once in town.
#1 buckshot is an absolute NO GO. Absolutely trash against a big bear. Far too little penetration.
#2 standard "foster style" lead slugs are ALSO absolute trash. They smash and deform, and don't penetrate enough. Can it work? Mabey. But it's a bad option.
12g slug is a great option BUT it MUST be a specific designed hardened slug like a Brenneke Black magic or Federal extreme penetrators.
I like the idea of a10mm semi-auto. My preference is a Glock. But as a backup to a 45/70 lever gun.
First choice: the 45/70, always close at hand.
And I wouldn't discount a 357 wheel gun if that's what you have.
Everybody has an opinion.
But most agree that optimal reliability and the most power you can manage in an emergency is best.
Thanks for the video.
DITTO. That what I always have too when in the woods
Cool video! I spent a few years on Kodiak Island in the 90’s and the general sentiment at the time was that if you bought a handgun for bear defense, you should file the sights off so it doesn’t hurt as bad when the bear shoves it into your nether regions…
That said, I have spent more time in bear county than most and I really think you are on to something with the 10mm if a guy practices often. That kind of firepower with ammo capable of modern ballistics weren’t even something we imagined back then. Freedom Arms was just starting with the .454, but we still didn’t think it was enough to bet our lives on. We carried rifles.
Thanks, good video, solid advice.
LMAO!!! Well said.
Great episode guys. I've always heard that you should drop to a knee when shooting a charging bear to prevent you from shooting over it. Because when standing up you're shooting at where the bear WAS when you pulled the trigger, due to angle and direction of travel the bear moves forward of your aim point as you fire. Otherwise You should practice and remember to sort of lead the shot or aim slightly in front of the bear depending on the speed of the charge, and this is only anecdotal knowledge to me, but it makes sense just like leading shots for birds or any moving targets.
that's exactly right. I'm surprised he didn't know that
Makes sense, twointhe... But will one have the presence of mind, not to mention time, to assume the position. Many, if not the vast majority, of bear attacks one hears about are described as terrifying and instantaneous. Came out of nowhere. Covered 40 yards in a split second. Didn't have time to raise my rifle. Methinks one must imagine, visualize, rehearse, and practice a sudden charge scenario... and then practice, practice, practice some more. A weekly bear attack training regimen?
@@RonSpomerOutdoors And coming at you silently from behind. A very small crucial window. The one to practice for.
I'm not saying it's easy to do in most situations. I'm just saying as a guide he should have known why he got dropped to 1 knee. he literally said I'm not sure why he did that. I'm also not criticizing him, just that I'm surprised he didn't know why he did it.
Thats brilliant. Thank you sir. In case I'm atta ked again.
In the 1970s my uncle was the Ranger for Red Lodge Montana. My dad was a visiting Doctor from Billings. They shot an aggressive bear. I believe brown. Once with a 30-30 and once with a 30-06 . My father and uncle escaped with their lives. The bear ran off. They never found what happened. I visited years later after my dad's death. I was placing something in a trash bin on a rainy day in Red Lodge. A black bear came out from around the bin. I got away before he did anything. Carry a firearm in Red Lodge Montana
red lodge has grown a lot since then. its now a huge tourist hub. really sad to see how its changed in just the last 20 years.
@@alexdrockhound9497 Yeah, I used to visit a friend often in Red lodge back in the early 80's. It was a beautiful sleepy little town back then.
Wonderful video, guys! It's always nice to listen to people with real-world experience. In my younger years, I carried a 500 Linebaugh in a cross-draw holster. I had extensive experience with that caliber and it is a serious thumper. It was those second and third shots, as Joseph mentioned, that were too slow to come on target that drove me to leave it at home. I switched to an S&W 625 Mountain Gun in 45 Colt. What a wonderful gun. There used to be an ammunition company in Texas by the name of 4W. They produced a 45 Colt 368gr hard cast that left the barrel at nearly 1,200fps. I still have a couple of boxes of that fine ammo. After many rounds of practice, I was able to get follow-up shots off quick enough to give me a significant level of comfort. The double action was a major part of that. Buffalo Bore is another company that can bring out the best in the 45 Colt. In the end, it's all a personal choice and thanks to the gun companies and ammo companies who listened to guys like you two, the options are many.
I remember my dad taking me to Alaska when I was 16. We fished, seen the beautiful scenery. We had a guide, old man, he had been doing guide work since he was 18 if I remember correctly. He carried a .357 magnum for the bears. I remember him and my dad talking about it. He said, and I remember this very clearly, " If you can't back out, and the bear starts to get ornery, take one of his lungs out. They ain't looking for a fight when they lose half their air.". Always will remember that.
Great show , I was aware that many hunters up in Alaska have turned to the 10mm for bear . It delivers the energy needed has the bullet capacity without the weight of a big revolver.
10 mm is marginal for Bear
And provides lower recoil! Allowing you to get off more shots on target!!! Additionally, they utilize 10 round magazines!!!
@@David-q1k4k , Try again. The 10s are sweeping Alaska as THE superior backup handgun & w the proper bear loads more than enough to do the job. Even 9mm works IF loaded properly. Check out " Phil Schumakers 9 mm grizzly kill." And not a single head shot in the bunch.
@@robertramirez2076 , Try 16 rounds in the normal size. But even 9mm are working loaded properly. Check out " Phil Schumakers 9 mm grizzly kill. " And THAT was a single stack 9.
@@tristantimothy1004don’t care what the trend is ! 41 mag on up
You two would be fun to camp with and tell stories over an open fire, coffee in hand. Appreciate you both sharing your knowledge. Stay safe and have fun.
I carry a S&W 329PD 44 Mag titanium in a chest rig. It has taken years of practice to master it and a good set of Hogue grips. I make a point to shoot it at least once a month. I wear it every time I go hunting and I forget I have it on. You have given some good advice.
Power to you, Buddy. I had one and it was fun to practice with 44 specials, but Magnum loads were too much for me, 1st shot dead on, 2nd shot a foot high ... 5th on my butt with a bear on me. At least that's what I envisioned during an attack. Had many experienced friends shoot it and none of them liked it. Your practice regime would make all the difference in the world!
Went to a Glock 20 SF and can shoot much more accurately.
That's a hard gun to shoot!!!!! I swear eith my glockenspiel I'll shoot a half sized silhouette at 100 yards 8 outve 10 times, u give me my 329pd 44, titanium. And a target at 20 yards I won't hit ot once!!!
@@trevinvaldez2763 It is the worse kicking handgun I've ever shot. I have a 500 S&W that is nothing compared. Even a TC .308 I had was nothing to that one. I carry it because it is light and hopefully I will only need 1 shot so make the first one a good one.🙂
I too carry a pd329 Smith in a chest holster. You are absolutely correct. Practice frequently. With 255gr Buffalo Bore or Garret 310 Hammerheads it is a wicked hand gun even with the Magnaport double ports. I practice frequently with hot hand loads.
I have the same 329PD with Hogue grips. Diamond D chest holster on every hunt. Comes very close to my S&W 460V 395 grain in recoil.
Recently went with a Glock 20 and 40 10mm as well.
I heard a Canadian guide recommend the "drop to one knee" approach. His reasoning was that many people overshoot a charging bear, whereas a shot from the kneeling position is parallel to the ground and more likely to go straight through the bear.
good idea if you have the opportunity.
I describe in this video why doing that is not necessarily a good idea. ua-cam.com/video/oFTqBOeZgV0/v-deo.html
I talk about that at roughly 24:20 in the video.
I don’t go with hard cast, I carry the Lehigh penetrators loaded by underwood. Penetration of the monolithic with tissue disruption like a hollow point is a excellent combination by my estimation.
Jay, Try both, alternate the shells. Best of both worlds. Underwoods & Buffalo Bore make the best/ hottest hard casts & the WFN for some weird reason has an amazing pressure wall in front of it causing plenty of disruption. Travels straighter too where the penetrators seem to vear off more.
Great round I agree your get best of both worlds
I carry lehigh xtreme penetrators as well. Theyre perfect for large predators. Theyll go through anything you point them at, even in smaller calibers.
Only thing ill say is, they dont produce any permanent cavitation in real tissue. they lack the velocity to do that. if you've seen cavitation in ballistics gel, thats because ballistics gel is not a simulation of tissue, its just a standardized media for comparing performance, it doesnt represent what a projectile will do in living tissue. with real ballistics gel you can poke your finger right through it. And that clear synthetic ballistics gel is a lot harder than the FBI standard ballistics gel, but also breaks apart differently.
That being said, hollow points show cavitation in ballistics gel too, but in real tissue they dont. they only create crushing type wound tracts that are the diameter of the expanded bullet.
The diameter of a wound channel for a handgun cartridge is essentially inconsequential. shot placement and penetration depth are the two metrics that are truly important. As long as you can shoot the round well enough to have fast well placed shots, and those shots can penetrate deeply enough, then you've got a winning combination, regardless of caliber. (this only applies to handgun cartridges, things change a lot for rifle cartridges)
@@alexdrockhound9497 , Have you checked out "Phil Schumakers 9mm grizzly kill."? Not a head shot in the bunch but he stopped a charging grizzly up close w a single stack 9. What BALLS that guy has! 😁
@@tristantimothy1004 yeah, aiming center mass is definitely the best idea when it comes to a fast moving animal. trying to pull off a headshot on a charging grizzly seems like an exercise in futility to me.
I personally carry a double stack 9mm. I think 9mm with a good deep penetrating bullet design should definitely be enough to stop a bear, but single stack is definitely starting to get sort of sketchy.
Did you hear of that woman who killed a grizzly with a .22long? (not to be confused with .22 LR)
People act like grizzly bones are made out of AR500. theyre flesh and blood like everybody else, but they are pretty thick, and pretty pissed off.
One other comment I have is about recoil,I had my 10 yr.old 60-70 lb.daughter shooting my .44 Redhawk without any problems at all & she actually enjoys the recoil & big boom & still does at 30. Full cylinders of 310gr. Handloads into a 10”plate at 20 yds. was pretty easy for her! Of course I didn’t want her to damage her small growing wrist bones so we kept shooting the big stuff to a couple cylinders. I have also taught some MEN to shoot handguns they were afraid to shoot? Hollywood ,the internet & bar talk greatly exaggerated recoil of the massive .44 magnum! A good set of rubber stocks ,proper grip & practice,recoil fear fades away. Shooting larger caliber handguns can be fun & shot accurately.
Can always drop to the 44 special for less kick or just load your own
Redhawk recoil is much less than a Smith and Weston
Great video guys. I've hunted Montana and Idaho for years and had a number of tense bear encounters including bluff charges, but no actual attacks. I usually carry a S&W 329PD and very well practiced with it. My load of choice is heavy Buffalo Bore 305 gr.
It isn't much help but I swapped the factory wood grips for S&W 629 rubber pair and then grips from S&W X-frame series. When practicing, I also wear high quality leather shooting gloves. Recoil is still is close to having a firecracker explode in your hand but my fingers don't swell up anymore. Fiocchi makes a 240 grain JSP that is great for practice. American Eagle and Winchester 240 gr. JSP are not as much fun.
As someone who works as a back country pilot/fishes/& hunts in the grand bear country of AK they are not usually an issue. But when they decide to be, you better have a way of deterring them. Personally I carry a 5" ported 5 shot Taurus tracker double action in .44 with 310 gr hardcast. I buy a box of 50 cowboy action loads at sportsmans every time I'm there and at least once a month I'll shoot a box of 50 to warm up, then I shoot the wheel of bear loads I've been carrying and then load a fresh wheel for carry.
Good choice, .44 magnum has never failed to stop a bear attack in any documented bear attack in human history.
To me the .44 mag 4" is the best that exist to stop bears !
I have a model 329PD 44 magnum for ease of carry. It has been quad ported by Mag-Na-Port and wears a 500 S&W Hogue recoil absorbing grip. And the lighter titanium cylinder was replaced with a stainless steel aftermarket fluted stainless steel S&W brand cylinder instead. I carry it in a Monarch Shoulder Holster made by Andrews Custom Leather. Weighs just under 30 ounces.
You both are great, I'm not a hunter or outdoorsman I would probably would be mauled by a duck.😂😂🤣 But I appreciate the experience that you both have and the stories are riveting. Thank You both👍👍
Hey, ducks can be pretty...uh....Loud....Geese, on the other hand, can really flap the chett out of a....Child...😂
I like what you said about not being alone. Two people face-to-face can see behind each other. One person with a Ready weapon and a head on a swivel can stand guard watch for somebody else who is focused on what they're doing on the ground
Thank you for this advice. This is one of the best bear defense videos I have ever heard.
Very interesting video. One of the best snd most informative i have seen.Thank you. I live in South Africa and We do not have bears that would attack hikers on the trail. The Dangerous Game is in Big reserves like Kruger and you ar not permitted to go on foot except with a Ranger,or field guide who is equipped with a 458 Win Mag. It seems bears are much more agressive and likely to attack than any game we have here. Mostly Lion, etc have a natural fear of man. Leopards are youre most likely attacks. Usually in and around Camps where the big cat has become to old to hunt fast game and they attack people. It happens but is rare. Buffalo ,Hippo Elephants,and Rino are youre big threat. So no handgun will stop them. So you never walk in big game country.So for areas that are for hiking etc you could come across Baboons or Leopard. So a 10mm Or one of the big caliber revolvers you presented would be an excellent choice.So i do follow stories about bear attack and am amqzed tha folk would actuality go unarmed on a hike in one of the many beautiful forests and wilderess areas you have in America. They probably think of winny the poo when the think of bears.They are not cuddly creatures. They are wild animals and we are intruding on their land and natural habitat.Have any bears actually been killed by handguns and stopped in their tracks.? Either way its a scary scenario. I have seen videos of Grizzlies hunting moose and they can run incredibly fast. I would not like to stake my life on any handgun.But i guess you stand a chance as opposed to no chance.
Some people go into the woods with nothing and camp in tents. And call us the crazy ones😂
Two of my favorite hunters joining forces. This is fantastic.
I'm not an outdoorsman, never been hunting, only been camping like 3 times. This channel is awesome. I think I might have to change that
Exceptionally well said, spoken concisely and eloquently.
Ive had 2 close encounters and my 454 casull was perfect on my side quick deploy each time 1 was 8 yards from me on a lunge the other waa 12 and gettibf ready to rush both male grizz coming up on a fresh kill of elk that they tried to claim 2 shots the first time 1 the 2nd time but 454 casull 6 inch work perfect with a 325 gr barnea goinf 1625 fps
Yep , .454 Casull is big medicine for Mr. Bear 👍
Indeed 👍
So nice to see Joseph for the first time. Been listening to his podcast (Backcountry Hunting podcast) for quite some time. Fantastic wealth of knowledge.
Good cartridges for bear defense are as follows:
180gr .357magnum (hard cast flat nose, hot loads), these will penetrate just as much as a 44 magnum per testing
240gr and heavier .44 magnum (hard cast flat nose, hot loads)
10mm 200gr or heavier (hard cast hot loads).
.45acp+p 255gr hardcast (Buffalo Bore or Underwood; the sectional density of .18 is equivalent to a 200gr 10mm) with 5" barrel, but preferably not with other options available. Also Xtreme penetrator Underwood loads, the heavier the better.
.45 Super 230gr or heavier for higher sectional density. Xtreme Penetrator Underwood loads also.
.460 Rowland heavy loads
45 Colt+p in strong revolvers (Ruger), at least 280+ grain.
.454 Casull
.480 Ruger
.475 Linebaugh
You can use a .460 S&W mag or equivalent but the guns get to be a cinder block and unwieldy.
You need to learn to reload and cast in other metals then lead. Zinc is a good metal for dangerous game.
Even a 9mm +p 124gr hard cast bullet will have a lot penetration.
@@Gieszkanne Maybe you should look up Fort Scott and see what can be done with CNC machined copper.
@@hartstudebakerkid tell me
I have a S&W 460XVR revolver carried in a cross-chest rig, and it's not too bad. (Also carry a Glock 20SF on the hip when in the woods out back, which is where the black bears are. Eastern NC, they get big here.) I do like to load the 460 with Buffalo Bore hardcast .454 Casulls though, not .460 Magnums. The Casulls are a little easier to handle, recoil-wise, for followup shots, and will still get the job done if I do my part.
Great information!
My choice is the S&W 629 that I had Mag-N-Ported in .44 mag !
I carry 310 grain hard cast bullets loaded in it !
It’s good to see a couple of men not putting the 44 magnum down. Now that you got the Smith and Wesson 460 magnum and the 500 magnum. So many people that used to treat the 44 magnum as the undisputed bear stopper on the planet. They now treat it like it’s barely good enough for rabbits. Good to see you guys have not abandon the 44 magnum as a legitimate bear gun.
This was a great watch. I am definitely a greenhorn next to these guys - great guys to go on a backcountry hunt, not just for their hunting/firearm expertise but just campfire talk and great stories. Probably wouldn’t get much sleep. Thanks boys - I say boys just because I’m probably old enough to be Joseph’s grandpa. Thanks again
I absolutely found this video extremely informative. I have been watching your videos for a long time and loved them. But this video reinforces why i carry a 10mm or 44 mag handgun when hunting. You just never know what you walk up on, or what may come up on you. Great video guys!!!
Look man you cannot compare a 10 mm to a 44 Magnum, I don't give a damn about the 10 mm capacity, come on man you got a 40 caliber bullet going 1150 ft a second that's a damn joke, and you rarely get 1200 out of a 200 grain bullet, you might get 1250 out of 180 grain but not a 200 so please man don't compare a 10 mm to a 44 Magnum
@@gregalcorn-pu5ye Nobody compared a 10mm to a 44 mag except you, simmer down sally
@@gregalcorn-pu5ye15 rounds of a .400 solid copper 115 grain round at over 1700 fps (chrono confirmed) doesnt suck. A 450B if I have the time. A 44 would be nice anyday if you can afford one and can find the large pistol primers. Blazer and federal 10 uses small pistol primers although the federal factory loads are weak enough i have to drop down to a 17 lb spring to keep them from stove piping
I bought a 460 Rowland kit for my 1911 several years ago. I know a 10mm is all the rage today but my Rowland gives me 50% more muzzle energy and the compensator halps me keep on target. If you can't stop a bear with 9 shots it probably doesn't matter what you are shooting
Lucky you. I wanted one☹️
@@pitchforkpeasant6219 as far as i know they are still in business
Thank you for sharing the info in todays vid, I'm a hunter/timber faller in southern OR and have had many encounters in the woods and at home with black bears and have had to shot many of them.
I was charged once when I found a bear eating the cat food on the back porch late one night knowing what it was there I had my Ruger SR40 with me and it attacked so I shot him twice he then turned and ran away it was dark so I didn't know for sure where I hit it but my first was aimed at his head about 15 feet away we found it a few days late 150 yards away in thick brush it weighed in the 350 to 400lb range.
Always be alert and ready even a "friendly" bear can attack and be on you in an instant.
Interesting fact; No handgun starting in .4 or larger caliber has ever been documented to fail to stop a bear attack, when at least one hit was scored.
@@Followme556, Try again bud. I worked with AK F&G for 25 years & have lived 38 years IN the bush & there's so many accounts of a 44 NOT being enough gun it's pathetic. Even the 500 mags aren't enough w/o hitting the spine or brain. Or shattering the major shoulder, hip bones. I don't know where you got your info but it's incomplete. Granted, the bears will almost always die later but during the critical " in your face" attack time they can mess you up before finally dying. Caliber Dosent mean squat. Placement is EVERYTHING. A 22 L.R. will instantly drop a griz if shot in the eye, up the nose or at the base of the ear sideways INTO where the bears brain is at. Biggest recorded kill was a native girl who killed a stalking grizzly by outsmarting it. Used its own trick against it. Led it around a big rock & climbed the rock on the backside & brainshot shot it straight down w a 22 LONG. Not an L.R. but an old Long. Basically a 22 short in a long case. 100s of documented cases of grizzlies having their heart/ lungs blown clean out of them w high powered rifles WAY stronger than any handgun & still living long enough to kill the shooter. Either gotta brain shoot em or " break em down. ( shatter enough bones to cripple em so they CANT keep chasing you) Granted, bigger is better for that but never think it's ALWAYS going to work. When the SHTF there's so many variables at play no one can trust any 1 set of " rules". I learned that the hard way. Moose attacked up close. Dumped 5 hot/heavy bear loads through it's heart in a moment & it still came crashing down on the sled. Barely had time to fling my daughter off into the deep snow & point blank the last round through both it's shoulder sockets compleatly shattering them & knocking the moose over the snow berm where it STILL managed to hobble past both sleds before getting back up on the hardpacked trail before finally collapsing. Found all 5 WFNHC slugs just under the fur rear flank later but even that didn't knock the small moose down. I can't imagine a large griz failure like that. Be wary of anybody telling you there's absolutes w any gun because they're aren't. ( Maybe a 50 BMG but who carries thoes around?)
@@tristantimothy1004 Show me the documented accounts of handguns failing to stop bear attacks. Even more importantly, show them to ammoland.
Oh, right...they don't exist.
Fuddlore.
Handguns are 98% effective against bears, Elmer.
@@Followme556 , Check w the Alaska F&G dept records. Particularly the number of people who go missing & are never found. You know bud, not everything is documented when there's no evidences left to find. Some times one has to use their brain to figure out what happened. Unfortunately, too many clowns go bush armed w only a 44 thinking that's going to be enough & they never return & are never found..might want to check w the AK State Troopers records on missing people too. Better yet, bring your dumbass up here & go bush w only a 44 & see how long you survive. Especially when you run into a sow w 3 full grown cubs & only 6 rounds. Bigmouth.
@@tristantimothy1004 I actually would like you to direct me to where i can read the reports of these incidents you describe. Actual reports would be ideal, but news paper reports are an acceptable substitute.
Because in the one actual verifiable study we have, that documents every known incident of handguns for bear defense *in world history* handguns are 98% effective.
My bear defense is a Ruger Alaskan in .460 S&W magnum with a 4" ported barrel, and 350 grain hardcast ,carried in a chest rig. I've carried it for years and had to use it once on a Grizzly while elk hunting and it saved my life. I've also had to use it on a cougar while hiking. There is no way I would trust bear spray against a full grown angry or hungry Grizzly, especially a sow with cubs. I have heard of too many instances and actually seen it fail to phase a bear charge and I had to use my handgun to stop the bear.
When did Ruger make a 460S&W?
I knew they had a 480 Ruger and 454 Casull....but never seen a 460 Model
Brilliant discussion.The crux is to use the largest caliber YOU CAN OPERATE FAST ON THE MOVE AND HOLSTER DRAW.PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!! Large magazine capacity is a bonus. Preferably have a high powered long gun with your handgun as a backup
That's basically it, Bennie.
I bought my Ruger Super Redhawk 7.5" barrel in .454 Casull when stationed in Alaska. I carried it in a guide holster in front and on top of my clothes. 🙂
The .454 Casull is my go to revolver for Mr.Bear also 👍
I had a firearms instructor who had 2 catchphrases that I use for training. 1. "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast." meaning you should be methodical and accurate. 2. "You cannot miss fast enough to win a gunfight" Like Joseph said, shoot accurately, speed will come.
10mm, my personal backup is a 1911. But the G20 is also good.
Of course the most dangerous part of bear country is the drive to bear country.
im really surprised he recommended a kimber 1911 over a more reasonable option like a g20, after all, he was talking about hard use outdoors, 1911s arent really known for doing so well in dirty rough conditions like a glock is... and a kimber at that... really lost a lot of interest in what he had to say after that...
@@alexdrockhound9497no one will agree with anyone on everything. If someone says something I don’t agree with, I’ll still listen anyway because they might say something I like. I’ve learned things from people I thought were idiots and had no respect for decades ago
This was a great discussion. My one grumble (and not about the video) is that practicing with a big bore caliber is super expensive. These rounds are going for $1.50 to $2.00 a round.
I carry a .45 long colt in the mountains of New Mexico. Mostly for mountain lions or black bear.
I try to get as much practice in as possible, but have now started conserving my ammo cause I would rather have it and not need it, then practice and not have it.
Again great content. You got yourself a new subscriber.
Yep! 45 long Colt from Buffalo Bore works just fine.
No on the plus power for standard 45 colt. Get into reloading. If revolver you can shorten 454 casull brass which uses small primers as 45 colt brass. The primer seats a little deeper by not much but still works. Small primers are cheaper and easier to find
Two words come to mind: RELOAD and RELOAD!!😅
@@pitchforkpeasant6219 thanks for the insight on this.
👍👍decades ago long before the 458 or 500 or other bigger calibers came out 44 mag was king.
And your assessment of the 300 grain was right in line with an article covering the same topic in a magazine I'm too old to remember said about best sidearm to carry in Grizzly country.
Do know they were correct.
300 grain has way more penetration power than the standard 240 grain.
Practice is always key as well.
Being familiar and comfortable with any of your firearms is as important as caliber or bullet choice.
A well placed shot is better than emptying a clip and missing.
Great show!
Great guest! He’s very knowledgeable! And also a good guy! 👍🏻
The 10mm has become my go to, carry loaded up with heavy hard cast.
I'm a cross draw guy too! No clue why so many run strong side... Cross draw rules. M&P 10mm full size with Buffalo Bore copies (I make my own now) with 17+1 is my hunting sidearm for hunting here in Montana.
Having done field work in the northern Canadian bush for over 35 years, I had to shoot 2 bears and 1 cougar during actual charges at very close range. All charges happened within seconds and all animals were killed at less than 5 yards. What I find nobody mentions in all these defense videos, is the psychological fact of surprise. I have seen quite a few good shooters (on target ranges) that actually stiffened up and forgot that they had a gun in their hands when confronted with a real situation. In order to survive a real situation, shooting your gun has to become second nature to you and that happens only after tens of thousands of shots and lots of practice, especially on moving targets. A once in a while weekend practice with one box of ammo will not get you there!
Guns that have sharp recoil and are hard on wrists tend to make people flinch. The 44 mag, S&W 500 are two rounds that can be too harsh for some people especially when in short barrel configurations. I have found that the Ruger 480 has a much milder recoil with the ability to drive a 400gr bullet at 1200 fps without breaking your wrist. They made a short barrel version I think was called the Alaskan. Anyway great reviews.
If you carry a semiautomatic handgun for bear defense, if it has a rail on the frame, put a weapon light on it that protrudes a bit past the muzzle so that if a bear is on top of you you push that weapon light into the bear and it not interfere with the cycling of your slide.
That's a good idea. Another good idea is keeping a handgun on each side of your body. I've talked about in one of my bear defense videos where a guy was being attacked and he couldn't get to his bear spray because his arm was in the bear's mouth. Luckily he had a gun on his other side that he did have access to.
Guns are obviously more effective anyhow. Because bear spray worked in only 33% of aggressive brown charges according to a study that I mention in my videos.
Life savings, God be with you
⭐⭐⭐⭐
@@infogunvault6920 that is *another* piece of great advice.
Yeap. That's why revolvers are more popular when camping as a back up gun. Semi-auto handguns have their place. But if you have that muzzle right up against an animal of that MASS on top of you. Not going to fire. Light deal, is a good idea,
Glad to see that Mr.Benedikt is joining your team Ron. The man knows his stuff!
I'm Canadian, I use a 4.25'' Colt Anaconda .44 Magnum with 240grain hard cast as my bear gun.
Thanks Guy's always good to see common Sense Prevail. My pick would be hard cast copper @ the 10mm golck. I have one and I love it 14+1.
This guy knows his shit. By far one of the best I’ve ever heard absolutely no bullshit here. Very good options and knowledge being given here.
I can't stress enough how important it is to listen to real experts and hunters like these men.
Lack of my own experience almost killed me.
I got myself into a very bad situation with a 500+ pound Texas hog when I went to the cage with just .44 specials loaded in my Model 29.
I was alone, it was night, and I just had a Wal-Mart flashlight. I didn't drive the ATV or the car up to it, I walked out. Once again, dumb and arrogant. I knew it was big, just not 600 pounds big...
I shot that animal all six times before it charged, and flipped the cage, it was 5 foot away with a bead on me, and I was standing with an empty revolver.
Use Magnum rounds!
I luckily had a ghm9, which is like a tec-9 under my arm, I tucked the pistol under my left armpit and fired about 15 rounds at the animal, with at least 1 bouncing off its forehead, it turned and ran about 50 feet, and I fired 10 morehitting it's side, but was not dead.
I had to speed load 6 magnum rounds into the Smith & Wesson, it took 3 more to the head before it died.
The cage had a broken weld and the tooth matched the scrape.
Anyone who deals with a very large animal like a bear can attest, and this is the most important thing - a charging or attacking animal is much different than an unexpected shot, in that the animal can take much more.
You can kill a Grizzly easy with any round when it isn't looking, wait for a heart shot, but a charging animal is much different.
A Bear obviously, but also a big hog, a bull (Longhorns) and moose need big rounds.
The hog I shot was over 9 foot stretched out and could only be lifted by a Deere 5150 full size tractor.
The thing may have been 700 and I have photos.
Some great info! I'll probably never be in a position to encounter more than a black bear in the back yard or on a hike. I'm glad he mentioned 10mm as being adequate. I am currently looking at a Rock Island 2011 in 10mm with a 16+1 capacity
I have one and really like it but it's a heavy sucker with that all steel frame, almost considering getting a Glock 20 to save a full pound of weight while backpacking.
@@A_potato9772I find it’s not so bad if you have a chest holster. But I’ve looked into a Glock 20 as well.
Glocks have versatility. Have spring rods from 17 lb to 24 lb for my hot load 45acp rounds in 45 super or 45 win mag shortened brass. 10 mm conversion i also shoot 40 s&w in. The extractor catches the extractor groove in the brass case. Same as 45acp or super in a 460 rowland gun. When the 10 mm case mouths start splitting, can shorten to 40 length and load as 40. Ill shallow seat a little too. 777 works in 10mm with 175 grain bullet mould but with black powder substitutes, same as black powder applies. No airspace. 10 mm in the bottom of the mag and 40 in the top for city defense. 40 for target and 10 for everywhere else. Lone wolf the titanium spring rod comes apart at both ends. Titanium pins everywhere else. Black powder dirties the gun big time. Complete strip down. Versatility 😊
Model 41
I just love listening to you guys talk about anti bear guns and ammo as I carry my 38 snubby here in an Ohio city lol.but if I ever take that Yellowstone vacation, I'll have a plan .
These guys actually have a really nice flow and articulation of their ideas. Both would be pretty decent public speakers.
Ron and Joseph, I’m a 30 yr Forest Service employee here in Idaho. Back in the day were trained, if you were working in the field in Alaska, with a 375 H&H rifle. No field work if you don’t qualify. But working with the public who come to Idaho for recreational purposes or the big national parks in Wyoming and Montana have no clue about the dangers of the big animals. I was told, in a training session, the a full grown grizzly can out run a thoroughbred race horses in the first 100yrds! But in 2023 people still hike with tinker bells and bear spray. I see a hiker got killed in Glacier recently. But I have to tell both of you: this video was the most thought provoking video I’ve ever watched on UA-cam! I do not have a close range personal weapon but do carry a 338-378 Weatherby while hunting. I’ve been looking for a pistol for awhile and could not decide as I did not know what to think. The 40 Kimber masses since to me now. Thank you so much for taking the time to educate and explain this to me.
Carrying a big handgun is tiring. Ounces make pounds sir! Very cool video.. The more I think about it, the more I think I would carry either a .357 with buffalo bore bullets or a 10 mm with the same.. Great video.. Had to watch again!
Anyone interested in this subject, the site *ammoland* has done a years long ongoing study of the subject of handguns for defense against bear attacks, of every single verifiable bear attack in world history where a handgun was used in defense.
It is an extremely informative study, and blows away a lot of myths. Great read that I highly recommend.
That study really makes fudd lore people angry, for some reason.
@@xtreme4stringbass Yep. the ammoland study absolutely destroys the fuddlore that you need some big mega magnum.
Based on the stats a deep penetrating 9mm+P+ is plenty sufficient (that M1152 round is actually putting out +P+ performance, not sure what psi its loaded at), and anything more than 10mm is probably counter productive.
@@xtreme4stringbass M1152 is about as good a round as you can get if you cannot use expanding ammo. And is about perfect for bear defense.
@@nomorerainbows What makes them even angrier is when I tell them the reason that .44 magnum is known as the "minimum caliber" is because of an old USGS "study" where they shot different guns into a mixture of sand and silt. The conclusion from this nonsense was that .44 was the minimum needed.
I've also measured the amount of time that different handguns calibers take to kill or down animals. There is no practical difference between the calibers that was used (10mm, .357, .44, etc.).
@@infogunvault6920 I am interested in that study you did
Ron and Joseph covered the topic very well. I have Blacks and Browns on my land year round. When carrying a handgun, I typically prefer a Glock 20 loaded with 200 or 220 grain flat tip hard cast or FMJ, but I also use a S&W 29 4" on occasion. While I have not yet had any serious encounters with the bruins, there have been several maulings and deaths in my area of Montana over the past decade, all due to the poor attitude or tactics of the people involved. I believe you should always be prepared for the worst scenario, even if the possibility is remote. With regard to handgun selection I would add the 357 Magnum loaded with 180 hard cast flat tipped bullets. The 40 S&W also has a good track record. Just make sure the ammo you choose is well constructed and won't mushroom or come apart when it enters the beast. Not all cast bullets or FMJs meet the required standard. Practice and familiarity with your handgun are paramount.
Paladin, For what it's worth. I worked w AK F& G & by our stats your grizzlies are just freiking mean. Smaller but WAY more AGGRESSIVE than our northern bears are. We travel a LOT & spent lots of time in Montana's backwoods van camping. On 1 trip by a big wide but very shallow river where the state had put in picnic tables alongside the river we had a griz circle all day around our camp back & forth from waters edge to waters edge on the far side & he was grumbling & popping his jaws & in general letting us clearly know HE wasn't happy with us being there. I had my standard Alaska 45/70 up on the table & when it got dark the bear left. ( We thought, we were wrong.) After dinner by the Coleman lantern on the table my wife wanted a picture of that spot w the river behind her. We had the old flashcube type film cameras so I stood a few feet away & took the pic. Went into the van for the night. Next morning that bears tracks were EVERYWHERE in our camp. He'd circled the van many times close enough to rub it. We left the next day..AFTER we got back to Alaska we sent the cameras in to be developed. Imagine our surprise to see the bear only feet behind my wife in the river sneaking up on her in her shadow & using the rivers noise to cover his approach unseen by either of us. Not even our very bear wary dog knew! She never said squat & she usually goes ape shit when bears are around. Not a sound. During the day she was staying close to me & the rifle with her low bear growl pointing him out as he crused back & forth but knows better than to go chase em. That sucker had waited all day to sneak up on us in the dark & could have easily nailed us both before I could grab the rifle only feet away. We figure the flash going off in it's face spooked it & it left still using my wife's lantern shadow to cover it's exit. Spooky stuff there bud!!
@@tristantimothy1004 Now you're giving me the willies. We've had them in our front garden, back yard, side yard, and down by the barn near the horses (the only one I was able to get a photo of). Of course I can pretty much say this about cougars, wolves, and coyotes, but they don't put the fear of God in me. I'm glad you didn't have a serious run-in with them.
@@Paladin1873 , Living out here in the Alaskan bush for 38 years I've been bear attacked 5 times. Twice by grizzlies, 3 times by blackies. The griz don't scare me. The blackies do. Sneaky bastards who silently come in from behind & hit the head or spine to paralize first & then eat you alive. Cougars freik me out too for the same reason. Luckily, we don't have those up here. Sneaky ambush suckers. Easy to deal with something coming at you head on but thoes stealth hunters are bad news. From the F&G reports I've seen your grizzlies are much the same. Sneaky ambush hunters. Even the Lewis & Clark expedition reports made special notes of how AGGRESSIVE & smart your grizzlies are. Up here, we have dogs. Several. They tell us when anything's near & they have special barks for each critter. We usually know where & what long before they're dangerously close. My huskie goes EVERYWHERE w me. Back during the Montana trip I was stunned our Aussie ( prime bear dog of that decade) never said squat about the griz circling our van all night. Never knew til we opened the door the next day & the entire site was carpeted with it's tracks. Muddy footprints on the picnic table, on the vans sides/ windows. THAT was spooky enough to change locations. Add, the dog DIDNT wake us up. That was just too weird. I have hunting friends in Montana. Their stories are better than mine.😁But they BELEIVE in the 3 S' es. Shoot em, Shovel em, Shut up about it. Apparently your F&G dept can be just as big of rectums as ours is even in a legal self defense shoot. We love Montana, almost moved there but our Alaskan son wouldn't leave & our grandchildren are here. After Obama screwed Montana by gating off all the federal lands & screwing up everybody there it became less reasonable. Love the people. Same free, independent, brave spirit as Alaska. Amazingly, Arizona was very similar too until California bunnyhugger transplants moved in & screwed it up. Seems everywhere they go they bring the same stupid mindset with them that destroyed California.Alaskas being over run now too. Same stupidity. But that's a book best left closed. Glad I'm old now but pity our younger generation. They will never know the freedoms we took for granted. Sad.....
@@tristantimothy1004 "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Goethe
@@Paladin1873 , Yep. Older I get the more I know that's true. Sadly.......
3" Raging Judge. Yes, I'm from TX. Carry it because we have hogs, bobcats, coyotes, and snakes with bears on the way. I like the ability to select rounds.
Joseph is a great addition I’ve been loving the shorts with him
What about .460 Rowland? That's my go to bear handgun in what began as a Glock 21. I had to upgrade the magazine springs to accommodate the increases slide speed in addition to the other upgrades, which makes loading 13 too tough to seem to be a good idea, but 12 + 1 of 1000 ft-lbs of energy with a well-functioning compensator is a lot of power in a relatively light package. The polymer frame is also much more forgiving to the shooter than a short barrel .44 mag.
Lone wolf has a titanium spring rod that unscrews at both ends. My glock is a gen 4 so i had to use some washers at the magazine end of the spring rod😂. 17 lb to 24 lb springs. I had broken an all stainless spring rod and springs from someone else that had broken. I ended up getting titanium pins for the entire glock off midway. I use 460 rowland brass shortened for my high powered acp rounds i load hot. Couldnt get the rowland conversion so did as much work around as possible
Taurus model 66 in .357, 7 cylinders and easily packing.
Im confused. I'm in my 60's, have hunted most of my life, and been interested in handguns for most of that time as well. In all that time, everything i've heard and read claimed that the 357mag was too small for bear. Absolutely not for browns. I can understand that.
Now, here's what has me confused. In the last few years, i'm hearing/reading that the 10mm is "the caliber" for bear hunting or defence. 10mm and 357mag are VERY close in their ballistics.
I'm sure you can see my confusion.
My wife and I used to take our 35 foot Class A Motor Home to Arizona, from South Dakota every winter to get away from the cold and snow, we loved the trip and always had a wonderful time while down there. I pulled my Jeep behind and once sit up in a camp ground the Jeep was our means of exploration in the desert and mountains of that great state. I always carried a M1911A1 unless we were going to cross over the line and enter California, we camped just a mile from that State Line. I keep it stuffed with 230 grain hardball loaded to standard military specs. I never had to use it, thank God but I was always comfort able having it on my belt when we ventured out in the desert, or into the cities. Alas I lost my good wife just days after our 51st wedding anniversary in 2020, and sold off the RV a few years ago, well basically gave it away to get out from under the Monthly payments and insurance costs.
I bought two revolvers in different calibers. Both had the same sites. I filed one down and left the other alone. To site them in. I never knew they planned for that before your video. Thanks 👍🏼
As an Army Ranger and former guide in North Western Montana, who has encountered many grizzly bears, the best firearm i used was a Glock 21 with Buffalo Bore ammunition. Hard cast, +p+ rounds out of a .45 gets really close to a .44 Mag ballistics in a semi automatic, fairly light weight hand gun. The main thing is know when a bear is close and respect it. We did lose some elk kills to grizzlies, but once the bear had control of the food, there was no danger. I figured with all my training and 13, high power, rounds, if the bear killed me it's my time to go. Many times I chose to relocate the hunt because of fresh sign of a Mamma bear and her Kiddos too close for comfort.
Do you start every conversation with “As an Army Ranger, I think…”? You’re a douche canoe.
I'd double check those numbers. The most powerful 45 acp rounds clock in at about 500-550 ft-lbs, which is about half the power of 44 mag
Great information...I carry a 5in 45 auto...Nine rounds in the gun....At least on humans, the Federal 230gr. "Hydra Shok" gets around 97% one shot stops. I don't worry about bear, here in S.E. Arizona. But mountain lion ARE on my mind, after seeing one in person. It was not cute. If high up, FMJ with max velocity would be my choice.
Your right. They don't make the hot loads I used to buy any more. After reviewing what is available, there are does and don'ts not previously, expressed as well. I'm sure there's a good reason.
I agree a G20 or G21 if you’re only carrying a handgun. They make plenty of hot solid cast for 10mm and.45+p
I love Ron Spomer and his guest; there is a lot of good advice givien. I just want to introduce my own personal handgun bear cartridge for those who reload or know someone who reloads. I have done a private patent on this load for those who want more than a 44 mag and find a 454 Casul too much handgun. I call this wildcat load "The 45 Crandall Magnum" It starts out with a 454 Casul case's trimmed down to 15,000 of an inch below the maximum length; that's 5,000 of an inch below the trim too length and primed with a small pistol magnum primer
.
Next, I use either Horady 458, 350 grain flat point or round noes soft point's sized down to 451 using Lee sizing dies. You might want to go from 454 to 452 to 451. Use lots of sizing wax! These are rifle caliber bullets with thicker jackets and soft lead cores and I load them with 21.5 grains of Win 296 (you can go higher, but use CAUTION; work up a load! I personally recomend staying at 21.5 grains of Win 296.
These loads are superior to any 44 Magnum Load of comparable strength and knockdown power and should only be only fired out of a Ruger 45 Long Colt Black Hawk Revolvers not any colt clones Ruger or otherwise! NOTE: I've never tried using 45 long colt cases with large pistol primers. Only use the 454 Casul cases trimmed to 15,000 psi below maximum or 5,000 psi below minimum to be safe.
Good luck with these loads. I take NO responsibility for the misuse of the instrutions abouve. Gary
A back woods handgun should be very similar to your every day carry handgun. So when you train with your EDC it will also apply to your back woods handgun.
As someone who has carried firearms professionally for decades, in the military, in big cities, and in bear country, I 100% agree with you. In fact I would recommend using the *same* gun all the time as much as possible.
True, but if you normally carry a .25 auto you're only going to piss it off. A .380 might work if you don't miss at all. You really need something that will drop it fast, or it's going to kill you before it dies.
@@okgroomer1966 In the few documented incidents where a .380 has been used for bear defense, it has been 100% effective in stopping the attack. Handguns overall are 98% effective in documented cases, at stopping bear attacks.
This is by far one of the most interesting videos I’ve watched on your channel in a while. Thanks for sharing, Ron. 🤠
These guys are so interesting and knowledgeable, I'm not even a hunter and I watched the entire video.
Great content!
I absolutely love the dialogue and in-depth knowledge provided. Thank you very much!
I tend to hunt in the worst possible areas of Wyoming for Grizzly bears. They are everywhere! I have been around people that have killed them in self defense, around problem bears that break into vehicles at the trailhead, and bears that claim my friends elk that they left overnight. Last year I was making an evening hunt an hour before dark and I caught the smell of a Griz close by. I went on high alert and backed my way out of there. I typically carry a 338 RUM loaded hot with heavy bullets, I also carry a Taurus Raging Bull 454 Cassul with 300 gr bullets. Two years ago my buddy shot a 4 point mule deer buck while I was elk hunting and he needed to finish it off. I handed him my 454 loaded hot with 300 gr nosler partion handgun bullets. He shot the deer 3 times behind the shoulder and each time the deer would drop with the shot and then 30 seconds later get back on his feet. The 4th shot was in the neck and finished him. I don't know what the issue was with those bullets, but I don't carry them anymore. None of those bullets penetrated to the off side of the deer at 5 feet. I am now shooting Lehigh Defense extreme penetrators in 300 gr. As a test I shot an 8 inch pine tree and the bullet blew through like butter. These bullets have flutes machined in the nose and are constructed of solid copper. They make a larger wound channel than hard cast bullets and should cause more blood loss due to the sharp edges of the machining. I have also switched to these in my Glock 20 10mm with 155 gr Lehigh Defense Extreme Defenders. I carry both of these handguns in a cross chest holster mainly because it isn't in the way of my backpack. You are correct about the binocular issue though and my bino's are in a padded case. Over the years I have reduced the items in my back pack, but when in Griz country I usually always opt for the 454. I have started using an electric fence around my tent too, because sometimes I am alone in the high country.
You need extreme penetrators not extreme defense ammo if that's what you choose.....extreme defense will run out of steam before reaching the vitals of a bear.
@@stevenp8198 there is no real world evidence to back that claim, as bear attacks have been successfully ended many times with calibers and cartridges that typically have far less than the usual 16"-18" penetration of xtreme defender type rounds.
@@Valorius
Many have been lucky hits like a .38 thru the eye->brain
@@mtman2 the data says hand guns stop bear attacks 98% of the time. That is a lot of good luck. Or maybe Bears just aren't anywhere near as unstoppable as the internet lore suggests.
@@Valorius
lol= like w/Fauxci~
"Trust the data" &
"Safe N Effective"
Here's more "data"
=1,200+people a yr
go missing in Alaska-
many are never found;
...likely bear food...!
Depends on the size of the Bear.😮😮
Having had to use the bear spray in Southeast Alaska I was very impressed at well it worked. I was working very remotely, helicopter location for a mining company. Killing a bear was to be avoided, we kept large sized bear attack spray in several locations, sleeping tent, cook tent, work area. A black bear stuck his head through the no seeum screen of the tent window. I was standing about three feet from the window. I grabbed the spray and let loose at point blank range, about two feet from my hand to the bears face. The bear screamed and bellered, pulled his head out of the tent and was still screaming as it ran over the ridge.
It works good on violent ex wives too.
Redbrick, Had a similar experience our 1st year in Alaska. A baby griz was molesting our fish smoker but ran off when I went outside. Called F&G on the radio phone & they told me to Educate the cub by blasting him with the spray. Next day dogs went off + I could see the trail leaving the smoker so I grabbed the new magnum can & went after it. 20 minutes later I'm on the far ridge, can in hand ready to fire, leaning up against a big tree to catch my breath & I feel breathing on the back of my neck. Turning around I'm face to face with a BIG griz . HE wasn't attacking, just curious about this new critter in his area. I panicked! Shot that entire can right in his face from 2 inches away, most of it going right up his nose. The overspray right into his eyes too. That poor bear bellowed & ran off screaming & running blind until I couldn't hear it anymore. I was pretty green back then. No gun ON me at all. Since then I've wised up & don't go out the door unarmed. Seen/ heard of too many spray failures. That bears tracks NEVER came back anywhere near our remote cabin.
(33:20) What he’s talking about was literally Wild Bill Hickok’s morning routine. He would empty his 2 colt navy revolvers. Then he cleaned them inspected, removed them and went on with his day. He always had a little practice and fresh powder!!!
I mainly carry a S&W 460V 395CPB Gas Check with my Glock 20 or 40 Underwood 200HC for grizzly country. The 460V recoil is enormous and takes lots of practice.
My Glock 20 and 40 both have an Alpha Wolf barrel and a McNally trigger assembly.
Glock 20 or 40. Have you shot 40s&w in it? The 40 has to go to the back of the magazine and the extractor catches the extractor groove in the bullet case. I dont shoot factory 40 much. I light load 200 grain bullets these days in the 40 after the case mouths in my 10mm brass starts splitting the case mouth. Shorten the brass to 40 length and load as 40. Shallow seat a little for extra consolation 😊