Support our work and get a great PC building work surface in return! store.gamersnexus.net/products/modmat-volt-large We previously posted a budget power supply round-up! Learn about some of the best $50 to $80 power supplies over here (we bought all of these for the testing, they were not sent): ua-cam.com/video/weFJd8dzxAE/v-deo.html Watch our power supply review & testing playlist here: ua-cam.com/video/ftF8V6Di84s/v-deo.html
Hey Gamers Nexus, you might not want to state it as "% Over Current" in the OCP Data table (22:33) as that seems to indicate an 'additive percentage'. 64.5% above 32.25 amps is 53.05 amps; 164.5% above that is 85.30 amps. It might be better to state it as like "% of Current" or perhaps something else.
I feel like "nothing seriously wrong" is a victory for this little thermaltake unit! It gave a strong showing for costing less than some high end case fans!
I have a similar unit in my 7 year old build, with a Haswell i5, and GTX 960 (at the time, I had no other corners I could cut if I wanted to fit the 960 and quad core in the budget). I’m rather surprised it hasn’t keeled over long ago.
I run a small PC company and we have a deal with Thermaltake on these. They work great, we run their 430W model and 600W models respectively. We mainly focus on lower-end systems but we've done higher-end RTX builds and still used these to save money for the customer, 0 issues in years of usage. Prior to that we used a 450W Thermaltake model and it was fantastic also. We used to use HighPower gold series (same that you see in Origin PC and other companies), and Apevia's gold series, I've found those to be less or equally reliable. They get the job done.
the PSU gave 560W nothing broke, nothing exploded, no fire, way above the rated spec, far more then they power need of 95% of PC gamers in the world , 95% of actual gamers have low or mid range PCs with a i5 and a mid tier 3060 or 2060, this PSU can handle more than that easily, expensive PSUs are the biggest scan in the PC building world
Seeing your self-rating on your expertise in this field rate you as a novice because you’re just getting started is some next level integrity and i’m here for it
We're trying to make sure everyone is on the same page! Adding a new category is difficult, and we want to make sure it's clear when you may want to still check a second source while we learn and improve!
No, you're not truly novice since you have a badass like Stone aboard, plus the expertise of your team developing test plans, gathering data, and producing reports and copy. But, I appreciate the conservative ranking system. It's not often people will willfully sell themselves short for the benefit of their customer/audience.
This psu is in 3 of my office PC's for almost a decade now. They run 12hrs a day every day. & Get cleaned out every year. They have survived 1 lightning strike with no apparent failure of their capacitors or mov's.
You sure its the exact same model? I dont remember TT Smart being around that long. And even if it is the same midel, I highly doubt that they're using the same parts as they did a decade ago.
@@TKIvanov they are smart power 450 with 80plus white and pfc.. cables are not sleeved. but runs great they powering a q6600 & a7870k and r3 2200g (the systems have been upgraded at due to different needs of each user but they were all build around 2012 with all of them at first having p4 631. the psu is very similar , i need to find the box to let u know the exact model.
@らてちゃん looks and protection in some cases where there is sharp metal exposed. i have had one pc came with intermittent shutdown and won't turn on again till power cycled turned out the sata power cable has rubbed through and shorting into the metal case which is ground causing the psu to shut down in overcurrent protection.
Been watching GN for years . Seen GN grow from games to hardware to full on testing with genuine lab equipment. Here's the thing, as you and your team have grown so has the community that you have created. Not just in size but in knowledge. Repairs that I tackle today I would not have even dared back in the early days of GN. But armed with my trusty mod mat and years of shared knowledge by GN and the community, replacing dead caps on an old motherboard doesn't seem like that much of a big deal. You have helped me share my love of PC's with my children and we often have discussions at dinner on the latest upload. Thank you
@@GamersNexus I graduated my last year of High School, class of 1978, attending a Tech School, 3-quarters of Radio & T.V. Repair. So, I've been a power supply junkie for decades....To my knowledge, the explanation of the components & their functions has never been covered in detail like this in any 'computer enthusiast' video. Congratulations and Job Well Done, Steve & Company! For me, this was very satisfying to watch... 🇺🇸 😎👍☕
A fun test for GN would be testing a well aged used PSU that was once high end. Say one from 10+ years ago. Because people love buying old formerly high end used PSU's for cheap, believing they're getting the same performance from them as when new. And I know myself, PSU's are a consumable item that doesn't age too gracefully in some cases.
Would have loved to send over my old well used Corsair TX 650W that had seen solid use since I bought it back in 2009. 24/7 runtime for the last 5 years. But it self destructed after what I suspect was a major short from being absolutely caked up with dust, looked like the inside of a vacuum cleaner bag.
The hardest part of buying old good quality PSUs are noisy or damaged fans, proper replacement fans are so hard to find since starting voltage is way too low in many PSUs (many PSU fans have a starting voltage of 3.0v) and the only brand I've seen that specifies Fan starting voltage is Arctic and Noctua. Besides, many are not PWM fans so this shrinks possible replacements even more. The only ones I was tempted to buy were Arctic's P12 or F12 since those have a starting voltage of 2.8v, good price and quality, no point in buying Noctua.
09:47 that's interesting, I had a NTC thermistor blow up on an Enermax PSU about 12 years ago. The PSU would still work but I would hear a loud crack every time I switch on the mains, and when I looked I could see the green casing had blown out the side. The Seasonic replacement has been good since and I still use the PC for old games.
@@GamersNexus Yeah, that's how I learned it's worth spending on a quality PSU. Tempted to replace the whole PC when the new GPUs come out but I'm going to be in for a shock when I realise how much the typical prices have increased since then 😅.
I was running the included no name PSU from my amd opteron build back in 04 and it just died when I overloaded it with a new (used) graphics card and forgot to plug the fan in that I had re wired to an external header to keep the noise down. Made it to almost 20 years, with about 5 years of down time before I upgraded the single core opteron to a used 3rd gen i5.
I have a Corsair GS700 that has seen i7-2600 when the CPU was brand new. Now powering i7-8700K @5.0GHz and RX5700XT and no prob whatsoever. Quality PSU will last a decade easily. If I ever need more power I will buy either Corsair or Seasonic 1000+w.
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I had the same thing happen with a 10 year old HX or TX 650W Corsair made by Seasonic. It worked every time but there where sparks flying out of it every powerup. I can solder and stuff BUT it was in such I tight space requiring a big tear down of the unit to get to it so I sad F-it and sent it for recycled it instead. So its not a problem for just budget stuff, they seem to crack due to age I guess, heat cycling and also the shrink wrap around it is there to stop it exploding everywhere BUT dont help when its open at the top XD
I've bought a few of these over the years for absolute budget computers that have extremely cheap components, and they've always functioned properly. What my personal rule of thumb is when buying a budget power supply is to buy something with a lot of reviews, go to the one star reviews, and see what the most common failures are. The number one complaint for these thermaltake smart power power supplies (when I last checked!) was them being DOA. At the time when I bought these, there were no reviews for "it killed xyz" or "Went up in smoke when I plugged it in". I've actually avoided more expensive power supplies from name brands as there were trends where it would take out components, like the Corsair VS units, and so far my tactic has been working well.
Speaking of low wattage, Seasonic used to have a 360w gold rated model (SSR-360GP). It scored a VERY good review from jonnyguru. I have like 3 at this point (plus an OEM model). I wish they still made them.
I have a couple of what I assume are the OEM versions: SSP-350GT also 80+Gold, no PCIe Power but I used them for office PCs so they're just fine. Ironically in a similar vein, I replaced most other office PCs with some random Thermaltake grayboxes that I got for cheap. Sounds dangerous, but they're solid unlike the old PSUs whivh were made of the cheapest Chinesium you can find, and had: * 3 just died. * 3 had extremely rattly fans. * 2 had _no fans_ idk how they still worked. * 1 had a capacitor cover just dangling around. Still worked somehow. * 2 had no fuses to speak of, just bypassed.
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@@GamersNexus There are BeQuiet budget PSU's Im interested in, should be good for any modern 300-350W system like an Office PC or HTPC or just a reapir of and old system people want to keep alive. There are so many 775 systems and stuff people still use for home businesses and stuff that dont even have a 300W rated PSU from Dell ;) They are called "BeQuiet System Power B9 Bulk PC" on Conrad, the 300W 80+ starts at 46€ here in Sweden, the 350W is 49€. There OEM/Bulk so not even painted, just silver like the old days. I think Bequiets model number for them are BN206 and BN207 I think the 300W dont have PCI-E power but the 350W I think has so yea very basic BUT sometimes thats all you need. Me and friends often have to fix systems on a budget that are low power but still used. Nothing I would use for a modern Enthusiast build but for an old system or building from used parts it might be an option when the budget is almost null.
@ BQ's 300-350W models are decent little supplies, they're just decade-old tech. Still using FSP's EPN platform by the looks of it. Unless you are actually in the business of building PCs on a certain scale, I see fairly little reason to buy one when you can get a good used Straight Power 10 (CM) 400W/500W, Pure Power 9 (CM) 500W or System Power 7 500W for the same kind of money or less, all of which are substantially more efficient and modern.
Something I think you guys may want to mention when discussing capacitor lifespan and temperature (so as not to make people think that their caps are going to go bad really fast) is that a capacitor's lifespan doubles for every 10°C below the rated temperature. So that cap will actually last 4,000 hours @ 95°C 8,000 hours @ 85°C, etc. It's not something the average person would know, and they might only hear "2,000 hours" and not fully understand what "2,000 hours at 105°C" actually means.
What kind of temperatures would be normal operating temps? Would they usually be in that 85° area extending the lifespan? Obviously there's a lot of variables like ambient temp, case, other hardware but I'm just wondering ballpark figures.
@@stevenjohnson1692 I mean it's really hard to say. Only the manufacturer would know that for sure. But under normal usage I would expect it to be much lower, considering the MTBF is 100,000 hours. To hit that, temps would probably be around 55° on average. 85° as normal operating temps would cause the cap to fail in less than 3 years at 8 hours per day of usage. But given the relatively low power of this unit, I don't think the air around the capacitor (which is what the temperature rating refers to) would ever really reach that temperature unless you are pushing it to the absolute limit and the fan has failed.
@@scuder179 ahh, yeah I didn't really think about the difficulty of getting a temperature on it. Of course especially for cheap products like this you gotta take everything the manufacturer says with a truckload of salt lol.
I have a Thermaltake Smart 630, it's been 5 years and the psu still works very well, with a few months exceptions, the pc has been on every day for roughly 10 hours, probably 50 power outages and several power spikes, B450+Ryzen 3 3100+RX 470
I’ve used a few of these in systems and builds and so far no issues. Yeah they aren’t excellent but for entry level systems, they work well. And I’d rather have Teapo capacitors than the no-name ones found in other cheap PSUs that are guaranteed to bulge or leak in a year or two. Look forward to more testing of PSUs across basic to premium!
I started laughing when you reviewed this cuz I actually bought some of these for the all-in-one CPU with on board graphics motherboard combo. So good to hear that it's going to work. Feels good feel safer that you've tested this. Thank you.
@Steve The 430W total output rating is not misleading just because the +12V rail is only rated for 387W as suggested in the video. As it suggests the "Total Power [Output]" is the total output that the PSU is rated to sustain from the power supply; "Total" includes the +12V, +5V, and +3.3V. Other higher end power supplies often are able to do the entire rated output on the 12V rail because they are using DC-DC to generate the minor rails (5V, 3.3V). They take the +12V output and convert it to 5V and 3.3V. This means DC-DC power supplies need to be able to output the full power on the 12V rail as the power for the 5V and 3.3V rail is being taken from the +12V. The Thermaltake Smart 430W is a group regulated power supply which doesn't generate the minor rails from the 12V output, so it doesn't need to output the total power from the 12V. The 12V and 5V rails are generated together and the 3.3V is usually generated from the 5V output (generating from 12V is also possible but since 5V and 3.3V maximum output is grouped together at 110W it's likely generating 3.3V from the 5V rail). One of the big problems with group regulation is the power supply regulates the voltage of 5V and 12V together, so if there is a heavy load on the 12V rail which causes the 12V voltage to drop the power supply will compensate by raising the voltage to both 12V and 5V since they are regulated together, which can cause the 5V rail to fall outside of the +/- 5% tolerance allowed in spec - and vice versa if there's a heavy load on 5V and light load on 12V. These crossload scenarios are part of the reason why group regulated power supplies aren't recommended [at all really, but especially for] systems with high end CPUs/GPUs as the high 12V load can potentially drag 5V rail out of spec. While the CPU and graphics card are the biggest power consumers in most systems, there are still a lot of things that require 5V such as USB devices, HDDs, SSDs, and more... Even though the power supply is only rated for 387W on the 12V out of the 430W total (90% available on +12V) you can (potentially, depending on the specific setup) still get the full 430W output from when you factor things like USB devices and drives. Just because the maximum rated output isn't available on the +12V rail doesn't mean it's misleading. Realistically having 90% of the power available on the +12V rail for a low wattage power supply like this is going to be perfectly fine for most systems except for very odd edge cases. In a DC-DC system loading up the minor rails will reduce the output of the 12V rail, it's just that it's arguably more flexible as you *could* get the entire output on 12V rail if the 5V/3.3V rail isn't loaded, but it's unlikely you'd ever be using a system that *only* has a +12V load and 0W load on +5V. Whatever load you have on the 5V/3.3V rails is going to be taking that power from the 12V rail counting towards its maximum rated output. I see a lot of comments on forums/reddit saying that power supplies are "fake" or "lying" if they can't output the maximum power on the 12V rail and it can be difficult trying to explain it to people, and I'm worried someone trusted like GN perpetuating the myth is just going to make it more difficult. You should instead educate people on how to read the output power table on the power supply label. The table shows the maximum output for the +12V rail. Instead of saying it's misleading just inform people that with cheaper power supplies (group regulated) if the total output for 12V is important to you then you may need to pay more attention to details of the maximum output of each rail instead of just blindly going off the total output. I know GN is still new to PSU reviews, and I think this is the first group regulated unit you have looked at, so hopefully you get to read this and at least now understand why on this power supply (and other group regulated power supplies) the total output rating isn't the same as the total output on +12V rail.
This seems to be a fair offering. I expected this one to perform worse tbh. One thing I would really love to hear more about during these psu reviews is noise level.
Yea, I thought this was an oversight on their part myself...It would be fairly easy for them to do...I have had several power supplies that were louder than my case fans!
Not sure how relevant this would be to the subject, but I have the 500w version of this series of psu and the the fan is basically silent. No coil whine to speak of.
I'm a recent follower of your channel and I really like your testing methodology and data presentation. You don't present "good" or "bad" data. You present data, then explain why you consider it good or bad. I like that. At first I thought your video lengths were crazy, but after watching a few, it's crazy how much info you cram into the videos for their length. You're doing great work. Keep it up!
When we buy PSU's like these, we know what we're getting into. I bought one to revive a 10 year old system and has been running as a file server with no issues for awhile now. Great video.
Yeah I saw a comment about some guy saying he has these in his office PCs and of course the comments are ripping on him for using them but it seems like they missed the part where he said "office PCs." I wouldn't trust this in any gaming PC but in a standard office PC with onboard graphics It's most likely fine...
I like that GN recently includes more of the other staff in their videos. Really makes you appreciate all their knowledge and different fields of expertise.
In this price range, "meets the spec" is good enough. It actually makes the Gigabyte failures all the more ridiculous. The -12V SCP fail is the real discrepancy for the target use case. Two comments on the data: 1. The first pass on the block diagram would have been better if a bit larger and not presented as an overlay on Patrick Stone. 2. It would have helped to have the Intel spec identified on the chart if that value was in the chart range. I would not expand the chart to include it, but I think it would help to better understand what is, and is not, meeting the spec.
"The -12V SCP fail is the real discrepancy for the target use case." pretty sure they didn't include any protection in the specs, while only the -12V failed.
Thank you - built my first computer with help from GN and I come back for the power supply disassembly. Learning about computer parts has been my favorite part about the project, and GN has been one of the more accessible ways to get information. Best wishes!
Great review guys, I love that you emphasized the target market for the unit and didn't just call it "the worst PSU in it's class" or some other drama centric nonsense. These "budget" parts exist for a reason and knowing that it does the job it's intended to and does it passably well is all most people in the position to need such a cheap PSU want to know. At these price points even $5 makes a huge difference in component specs/performance. I can't imagine the margins on these are very high so kudos to Thermaltake for even producing these at such a low price point while keeping the quality at least safe for the intended use (unlike cheaper units). This is the kind of review I like to see. Some channels seem to have forgotten that not everyone can afford high end parts and bash on budget options (unfairly) just to get views.
I love the experience meter on the side to inform everybody watching that you still have more to learn, it is super open and transparent for viewers who may not watch you as regularly
I remember the days of getting "Free" power supplies with the case. In the early 2000's this was the thing todo when selling a case. Some of the most cool cases i found had a power supply included and no option to buy without for cheaper lol. The last one i had was a mini atx "Xcube" case around 2004, the PSU lasted about 6 months before taking out my motherboard. It smoked randomly, crackled, melted wires going to motherboard and the 24pin connector on motherboard.
@AdamsWorld I can remember buying a case with power supply for only $25 back in the 90's at computer shows, this was normal and everyone used these for builds!
In the "for what it's worth" department, I've built hundreds of machines with these over the last fifteen years, and they've been nearly perfect. I can't remember the last failure. I've also built with at least dozens, if not hundreds, of the other wattage of TT Smart PSUs, and I think the only failure has been a DOA. @gamersnexus maybe add some testing that looks for performance impacts of the voltage variability?
I've had the 500w version of this in a spare PC of mine for around 2 years now, and I haven't had any problems with it so far. Granted, it only has to run an i3 9100f and GTX 1060 3gb, but at one point it powered a GTX 470 with no issues. I'd say for the price, it's not bad at all.
I appreciated the block diagram/walk through and discussion of component choices/topology compared to higher quality power supplies. I understood the fundamentals already, but the visual representation of it combined with the part-by-part explanation was quite helpful. Being able to identify group regulated PSUs visually will be helpful in my own PSU testing. I'm prototyping a PSU adapter specifically for building AT PCs in ATX cases, and some of the issues I've run into with minimum loads tie into the topology and regulation.
Isn't the 5volt problem not the bigger issue? Most modern-day PSU's only have a output of 100W on the 5 volt lines while a decent P1 system could suck up 150/200W. Also the -5 volt line has disappeared from the ATX standard for a very long time now (which was the white cable on the 24 pin connector) and is used by some ISA cards. I know the Soundblaster 16 and AWE 32 needs -5 volt to function properly, which was the reason I had to unfortunately hunt down a old PSU with the white -5 volt cable for my P2 system.
@@thundereagle4130 The limited 5v output of newer PSU designs is certainly an issue, but just checking spec sheets is usually enough to figure out if a PSU will do the job in that respect. There are a number of ways to implement a -5v rail when a PSU doesn't supply it: Phil's Computer Lab has the Voltage Blaster which is a tiny ISA card with VRM circuitry to supply -5V in a plug and play fashion. Alternatively, you can roll your own that fits inline between the ATX PSU and AT power connectors.
These new PSU reviews are great. I've a friend who needs a cheap PSU just to repair a office PC, I'd suggest this since it's serviceable. One suggestion for these reviews I think is that if it's possible to add wave graphs of peak to peak ripples just out of interest plus in my opinion, it'll better visualise the ripples.
What you want is called an oscillogram. That's a capture from the screen of an oscilloscope. I think Steve's Rigol is capable of saving screen captures. You have to look at scopes a lot to develop some context for their waveforms to have much meaning.
The power supply breakdown and explanation was so cool! Thank you so much for explaining their layout and subcomponents. It was very in-depth and very clearly explained.
This ought to be fun. I regularly use this PSU in entry level client builds. So far haven't had a single one fail over the years. But then again they are usually Athlon 3000g, 2400g, or 5600 level builds used for basic computing and integrated graphics are all that is needed. Can't wait to see how these do when put through the ringer. Thanks Steve!!
It's really good seeing this type of content. I'm from Brazil and here hardwares are VERY expensive. Usually the mid-level products are considered high-end products here. This is a lot closer to what I can recommend to my friends.
Thanks for the review, as always, it's great to have more coverage of this otherwise under-represented part of the market. One suggestion that I would like to see implemented is to show the output voltage and ripple at the point when OCP triggers. If OCP is at 150% at 12V but output and ripple stay under control, it's not much of a problem. On the other hand, if OCP triggers at 130% but 12V output drops to 10.8V with .1V of ripple, that would be a problem. Either way, I look forward to your next review!
This PSU is appropriately named. It is smart to not waste money on a PSU that does more than what you need. Thank you Gamers Nexus for testing it and verifying that it works and poses no danger to your other components.
Problem with this review is simple: these thermaltake smart units seem to change components and manufacture constantly, its why the labels/specs were different in 3 places.
It is so great there is now a UA-cam channel which does reliable PSU reviews. A good quality PSU is important for other components, how long they work and how well they work. People often spend way too much to buy some over specced motherboard, but skimp when they buy a PSU. I have always used and recommended good PSU's (often using jonnyguru as source, which is no longer active) and motherboards with decent VRMs (not the most expensive ones, but anything with good enough VRM) and every build has lasted like 10+ years of use. Much respect for this channel for reviewing PSUs and doing it properly.
Thank you for making this review. This is exactly in the range of my budget and I cannot really pay much more. I even saw this exact PSU as a potential option. Having your opinion on it is invaluable for people like me who can't afford what we would actually want to buy. We buy "GN it's OK" stamped hardware because we just can't do any better. I hope to see more of this budget PSU reviews on the channel, it really makes a difference for people like me. BTW, I know that there are some cheap "It's OK" cases out there waiting for your reviews that would really help the community.
I'm proud of you! You got out the duster and rags and cleaned off that pile of equipment you bought but hardly ever used, and actually put it to use again!
As an engineer for ~40 years, and one that headed up the power supply lab for mainframes at NCR,I can tell you that when it comes to power supplies, you get what you pay for. One thing that bothers me about many PSUs is the efficiency. We were able to reach 98% with our switching supplies using what we called mag amps (magnetic amplifiers). I see way too many that are below 90%. I never pay under $150 for a PSU, but I suppose if I needed a cheap PC then I would go lower.
There are plenty of pure DC/DC converters that don't reach 98% of efficiency, let alone complete ATX power supplies - the best ones make it to over 95% on a good day, and what happens if you only want 10 or 20 watts out of them is another matter entirely. PC power supplies are mass market consumer products that have to hit quite a number of performance targets including size, reliability in the field (which may actually suffer if efficiency is pushed hard, as owners of the Seasonic Prime Titanium series SSR-xxxTD may be able to attest), safety, EMI, efficiency, standby power, power factor and cost - oh, and they're supposed to look pretty, too. It's a tough business, and the big OEMs behind the scenes all sport considerable amounts of vertical integration. Mag amps are fascinating electrical engineering secret sauce that few outside the field of power supplies have even heard of. Even the general engineering public is not very well versed in magnetics. This might be a good topic for EEVBlog Dave, actually...
6:25 - The datasheet numbers are not sacred values. The datasheet says 8A continuous at a case temperature of 100C. It doesn't say you can't pass 10A with external cooling, like from the fan. However, it will never draw 10A unless it fails. Highest nominal current will be about 5A (~500W at 100VAC), so the 8A rectifier has 60% nominal margin. It's fine.
Thats the exact same I bought 5 years ago for my ryzen "upgrade" knowing it would barely scrape what I needed. It hasnt failed once yet so it was definetly a win for me for the price I paid. Currently running a R5 1600, RX580, 32GB ram and way too many hard drives with no issues. I'm planning on getting a 3060 but I dont trust the PSU to be able to handle it comfortably so an upgrade is certainly on my to do list.
your system uses 185W + 65W =250 plus some 30 for the hard drives, coolers etc, you would be probably fine on a 350W PSU since they might be able to survive some 450W ocasional loads
you'll be fine. i used to run an i7 2600 and an undervolted rx470 on a 240watt dell psu. when i bought my ryzen system, i went for a 430watt evga psu and ran a r5 2600 and gtx 1070 with zero problems (undervolting wasn't needed, but i did it). i recently upgraded to a 1080ti (250watt tdp) and the 430watt psu is still doing fine with the undervolted gpu. granted, i do not feel comfortable running it without the undervolt, but i undervolt all my cards anyway. also, i just looked up the tdp for each card, and it turns out that your 580 is actually rated for higher tdp than the 3060, 185watts vs 170watts.
@@wisico640 yeah but in the end, its is a cheap psu that has been used for 5 years nonstop... Plus the previous one I had I gave away to a friend that had a similar power draw than my pc and he ended up blowing it up a week later
@@QruisS fair enough, a good psu should last quite a while longer tho. I have an old PC Power & Cooling 750w that has been running for like 14 years & still gives off solid voltages 😂
It's amazing to see a $30 PSU built without Chinese crap capacitors and transistors! The topology of this is TTF + diode rectification, and I personally recommend this kind of PSU for people with low budget because it's really cheap and robust. By the way, the choke nearby the standby transformer is the mag-amp for 3.3v, not for 5vsb regulation.
Teapo is cheap chinese crap. I've replaced thousands of failed Teapo capacitors in all matters of electronic equipment. The green vomit ones usually leak, the black ones with the gold stripe usually have a seal failure, dry out and short out.
I was super surprised. Some of their higher wattage models use the likes of chengx or asiax, so to see Teapo across the board and even 105°C rated, very nice.
@@maicrowsoft8867 They're both China. One is a republic (Taiwan), the other is a communist totalitarian dictatorship (mainland China), for the time being. The CCP is making war noises, so we'll see what happens. Both make cheap trash products. Both also make some good products, but the bad far outweighs the good.
@らてちゃん All capacitor failure is bad, but leaking is worse because the electrolyte is both corrosive and conductive. If the leak is left long enough, it will eat into the circuitry and can seep inside the PCB and cause irreversible damage. A short can be good if the circuitry is properly designed, a fuse can be blown or have OCP and shut the device down. In that case, you just have to change the caps. Capacitors that go high ESR is another bad scenario. The capacitor effectively becomes a big resistor that draws heavy current and can blow components both up and downstream of it. I've seen a single bad capacitor cause cause multiple cascading failures that blew quite literally every component on the device to pieces.
10:40 A discharge resistor would normally be added there in the design to discharge this high-voltage capacitor over about 1 to 4 minutes. Usually from 100 to 400 volts down to 10 volts in within 5 minutes. If I am working on a PSU that doesn't have a discharge resistor then I'll discharge the cap, calculate an appropriate value and add the resistor to the board myself. It just makes it safer later on when myself or someone else needs to work on it again. I usually make sure the resistor only has to dissipate about 1/8W while in normal use and use a 1/4W resistor direct on the caps leads underneath.
Thanks for also having low budget stuff, these video's are the best because they are more easily relatable since more people can affort lower budget products then enthousiast products.
I'd really love to see some of the low end Corsair and EVGA power supplies compared to this. Especially the bronze models. Most of the budget builds I've seen run $30-40 PSU's from those 2 brands.
I had a Corsair cx650m years ago kill the motherboard ram GPU and even the CPU it was i5 4690k,Msi Gaming 5 motherboard,2x8gb gskill ripjaws and msi R9 290X I got it all from the same company and they swapped it all went with a different power supply tho they said they would get reimbursed from Corsair as the PSU was at fault with there testing
@@TKIvanov Yeah destroyed the whole PC just bought all the parts and the first time I turned it on for about £1200 I paid. The company I bought the parts from was really good done testing on all the parts and agreed with me IT was the powers supplies fault they just sent out all new parts apart from the power supply got a seasonic instead
Personally, I really like the Thermaltake SMART series PSUs. I’ve been using them for the last few years with absolutely no issues to speak of (from the perspective of an ‘everyday man’ casual consumer) , and is currently my go-to for my lower end and mid-range systems (from a Core 2 Duo 38600 + GTX 750 system, to a i7-7700K + GTX 1060). Can’t say I’ve used the 430W, though; I usually go with the 600W or 700W model. Still.
Thermaltake do not make their own power supplies they contract it out to various OEM, so if you buy their cheap PSU you get the ones made to be cheap. Their higher end PSUs will be made by one of the better manufacturers who don't cut corners and use high quality cap. i.e. their Toughpower range is generally good.
Great! Bought this one for my mom's 5600g, 170W build despite the F tier in the tierlists, so it's good to hear that it'll probably be A-OK. Thanks for the review! Very very useful!
While the cheaper power supplies are interesting, it would be nice to see GN review some of the really high end PSUs as well. It would especially give a good comparison of really high end components to components like this one. Additionally with the rumoured power consumption of the upcoming RTX 4 series, higher watt/higher quality PSUs will potentially becoming more important. Something like the Antec Signature Series 1000W Titanium, or the Corsair AX1000, or the Seasonic Prime Titanium they are based on. These are the ultra top end (I have the Antec one myself). Would be interesting to see Patrick compare the components of the crème of the crop PSU components to the ultra budget like this, as well as the mid-range stuff.
used to use the built in power supplies in antec sonata 3s thinking "antec is fine!", had one die on me got an ocz xstream when 80+ came out since it was the cheapest 80+ power supply in my budget, died on me i have not made the power supply mistake in over a decade. used to check jonnyguru and get something they gave very high ratings to (usually seasonic), now you guys are filling that hole in the review space. love it.
When I tell people "Don't cheap out on the PSU" there are a few good reasons for this; Namely most people get to the point where their current hardware isn't keeping up and generally it's a new GPU that will get swapped in. Having a good PSU allows you, even 5+ years down the line to easily swap out and power a current-gen card. The other reason is mainly all the horror stories about the Ali Express specials that tend to go pop and take other components with them
Yep. When I started building PCs I was a young kid going into high school and I didn't have much money so I always skimped on the power supplies... and always had problems with them. Luckily none ever exploded but I did get BSODs.
Definitely don't cheap out with lesser known brands. They've got much less to lose. With more known brands you're just very likely to get old, cheap to produce, designs with lower efficiency (and lower operating times, I.E. don't expect it to get far past years of insurance it has).
@@MLWJ1993 I had this power supply from OCZ ? You remember them ? Ever heard of them ? Too bad they no longer exist, they made good products. I loves that power supply and used it in 3 different builds. It was still working just fine in 2016.
Great video with the "no BS allowed" presentation of facts I really appreciate. Also, I'm sure you already know this but I'll just reaffirm that you're right: those Gigabyte PSUs catching on fire clips will never get old.
Honestly, I'm amazed they can design, build, and ship a halfway decent PSU for $30. So, to some extent, TT should be applauded for making something that *probably* won't catch your house on fire at this price. That being said, I would never buy it, and would likely never recommend it.
Thermaltake probably didn't design it, hardly anyone selling power supplies do these days even if their logo makes it to the PCB. If your shocked at this thing costing $30 you'll probably be even more shocked at how much it would cost if you take the TT branding away and get it directly from the OEM. There is a very good reason seemingly every "makes" power supplies, it's very profitable even at the low-end.
@@zacharytaylor8523 yep good points. Although at this price point I'm sure TT isn't marking it up much. It would be curious to know what the BOM cost is. But then it needs to be branded, packaged, shipped, and the retailer needs to make something on it too.
@@zacharytaylor8523 Yeah, low-end stuff in particular is outsourced. According to old threads TT uses OEMs like HEC, Channel Well Technology, and FSP. This power supply has probably been in production for well over a decade though so it'll still be one of them.
TT doesn't make PSUs. It's basically the same hardware Great Wall and CoolerMaster and a dozen other budget brands use. Generally the brand companies order them to meet a certain price point and specifications, so you can get crap and great stuff coming out of the same factory, and for the same reason the work Steve and boys do is important because it is near impossible for consumers to tell what is what. Being a brand name does not automatically mean the unit you buy is any good (looking at you, CoolerMaster), just like a low end brand like Great Wall (which you'll find in stuff like Walmart PCs) actually isn't all that terrible - I mean, they don't blow up and won't fry your stuff
You need to tell that power supply buddy of yours to slow down and enunciate his words. He is speaking so fast that it is difficult to understand and digest what he is saying. He is also jumping from one stage to the next very quickly without a clear boundary/break/pause etc from the other section and just keeps pushing through. Someone who doesn't have a clear understanding of components will just go all glassy eyed. I have noticed that people on youtube are in a hurry to rifle as many words at the audience as possible so they won't get bored or move onto something else. I do think this video is excellent and very valuable to people looking to purchase that power supply or understand the components inside. Buying the cheapest one isn't always the best idea for component longevity. Some of the testers that used to do this aren't around anymore so it's nice to see someone taking up the mantle and running with it.
I got the 600W version of this PSU in a CyberpowerPC prebuilt running a 1700x, 16gb RAM and a 1070. I've since given that PC to my daughter but it's been holding up for over 5 years now with heavy use.
Always, always thank you for the total transparency with everything, including admitting your experience level with psu reviews! It's honestly surprising your dedication to integrity and doing things in a fair way. I know that is pretty much the opposite of a modern business model (or any model ever lol), but the need for this kind of attitude in the review space is alarmingly evident nowadays with everything from movies to food being sold through hype instead of quality. I don't comment much and I praise channels even more rarely, but y'all are one of a kind. Keep it up everyone at GN, take it from a 5+ year fan, what you're doing works!
Thank you so much! Having 5+ year veterans around here is important to us. It helps us remember why people liked us originally so that we can keep doing more of that.
Yeah -12V is not used anymore by any PCs/MBs, I believe it was used for RS232/RS485 or some other legacy stuff. I hope intel removed that rail from the newest ATX standard. Btw. 24:30 did you actually physically verify that the cables are 18AWG?
@@MeatPoPsiclez Yeah it probably would've been only few cards and obviously none are used these days really. Someone does PRO audio stuff you just get external ones. ATX 2.0 is really obsolete.
Please please please keep reviewing these lower budget products, so much more helpful than reviewing high end parts that companies want to show off. These are the parts most people will use and knowing what's the best in this category is so helpful to not to just people doing research on a budget but also for the people giving the recommendations to friends that aren't as interested in following PCs and tech
Personally I'm more interested in them reviewing mid tier stuff. Like finding a unit that performs really well for a decent price. I will never buy the cheapest nor will I buy th3 most expensive.
I'm curious how this compares to the PSUs included in prebuilts (dell, hp and the like) since they often have good 80+ ratings but low wattage What I also wonder is how this compares to the two other 30$ PSUs I could find on amazon which are the EVGA W1 500W and the EVGA W3 450W. While testing those is probably not worth the effort I still wonder how they stack up...
I'd like to see the W3 since the only legit review is gone and the enclosure has gone under some revisions, so possibly a changed internal layout. Last I recall, it actually performed pretty well for a group regulated unit like this smart. The W1 has been reviewed by Aris(psu reviewer for tomshardware/kit guru/etc.) a year or two ago, and the result was the bridge rectifier exploding when under max load, so that'd be a fun test I suppose.
i bought 4 of this power supply last month and made a small office pc with them for clients and when i clicked your video i was like $hit i have to change them now. but thanks god it passed your tests
This is where Linus has lost the plot, he no longer provides reviews that the average Joe wants to see, tech like this. He'd rather show us his giant $10000 monitor in his house than tech people actually can buy and need. Well done GN!
i have a thermaltake one in my old ivy bridge system. its still working fine, even after heavy gaming and blender rendering usage with god knows how many thousands of hours on the clock, if not 10.000 hours of operation.
Goes to show the actual bare margin on "premium" fan :-) The molded parts are pennies and the PCB is populated in smd jelly bean. Yes its round so an extra penny.. If you take out development costs and copper winding /rare earth magnets then there should be quite a lot of money to gain
@@kitecattestecke2303 You're probably mostly right, but for premium fans I expect them to use more-costly forming processes for the frame and impeller since they need tight tolerances. Also Noctua claims to use their own proprietary polymer for the impeller rather than a commodity plastic, which would raise costs.
Just wish they made more BETTER PSU's since like the smallest you can get(of GOOD quality) these days are like 550-650W which is a bit overkill for a 100W pc
Although you get to 200W+ really fast (far from 450 though). A smaller CPU, MB, maybe a PCI-e card and a disk or two probably already comfortably get you there.
I know this is a gamers channel but I'm interested in the low-load efficiency of cheap, low-capacity power supplies for home servers; or other always-on, low-power devices. It would be cool to see which, if any, supplies have decent efficiency at 10W or 2% of max rated capacity. Or does the spec as written not set a meaningful standard?
I'm also interested in this. My guess is that you'd be better off using a shared high-efficiency industrial PSU (e.g. 12V) together with one Pico-PSU (or its cheaper clones) per server. In one of the slides, you can see that the efficiency on all the consumer PSUs they tested is atrocious (50%-60% range) at 2% load, even the high-end ones, because they have fixed overhead and are not optimized for very low loads.
Patrick, that t-shirt is amazing! Sadly, it was a bad time/mood for me (and people from where I am) to think about PC/gaming stuff (and not that now it is much better). Still, it warms my heart that someone from this area actually thought about us and, even more, did something to help. God bless you and keep a good work! Will gladly buy a couple of similar limited t-shirts if you decide to give them another go. Thanks! P.S.: Your reviews are amazing as always, you're my favorite PC components reviewing channel, by a good margin.
Love Patrick's section here with the diagram. This is very helpful. Also, kudos to Patrick for using a wooden pointer instead of the screwdriver like Steve always uses :P
I've been running Thermaltake power supplies for years now. Built a few computers for other people with them as well. Not one single problem. They were not 430 watt supplies but rather all 700 watt and above. Meanwhile my EVGA 500 watt popped in a week but would have cost almost the same price as it cost, to ship it back for RMA. It is a nice paper weight in the box.
Been using the 500w version of this supply since 2018 in a hobby mining rig i built to get some more use out of my 2 old gpus that I was done gaming with. Only about a 200w load or so but it's going strong to this day.
I have used a smart series 700 watt for years with no issues, got it on sale (80 cad to 50) after my old PSU randomly died and was on a budget. Has served me well, though I can't say I'm not a little nervous about it
Even though I've bought ~100EUR quality PSUs for several years, it's nice to see reviews of cheaper ones, which aren't fire hazards. Like Steve said, seems like a passable unit for a budget setup.
This review is Bob on! What Steve says it’s refreshing - yes it’s cheap, yes it’s FAR from ideal - but it shows it does what it says in the tin and to acknowledge that for some people “don’t cheap out” isn’t an option.
I bought the 500 watt Smart PSU.... after a few days it started sparking and wouldn't power on. I took it back to microcenter and got a cheep 500w EVGA and it worked out great. Microcenter guy told me they are getting a lot of these Thermaltake PSUs back.
I am the owner of that power supply since 2019. I have used with a 1070 and a 2600x and have no issues. It even handle an upgrade to a 5800x with both the GPU and CPU running a stress test for an hour with no issues. Definitely a good powert supply for the money.
Will admit, I'm bias for thermaltake products simply because I've used them for several personal budget builds through my life (from cases to now psu). Currently own a 500w version of this psu and its been running well enough for my current rig, surviving through several rolling blackouts that happened in my area. Appreciate the review of this and glad to know its not purely the worst psu I could've purchased.
Good to see a review on a PSU I actually have. I bought this for my retro gaming PC; Dell Inspiron 531 upgraded with an AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+, 8GB of RAM, Nvidia GTX 260, a boot SSD and a games HDD. Dual booting W98 and XP. I wouldn't have put this PSU in any other system than this, but heck, it was cheap and it works great in that system that only gets used once or twice a week.
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can you do antec power supply next as i wish to see if it will support cards for the future.
going to be honest. I use this psu in most of my budget gaming
What I've found over the years is that an acceptable psu costs about $/€10 per 100Watts, a good one $/€15 and a great one $/€20.
What do you think about the chieftec psus? It's an old popular budget brand in europe but not many reviews are out there.
Hey Gamers Nexus, you might not want to state it as "% Over Current" in the OCP Data table (22:33) as that seems to indicate an 'additive percentage'. 64.5% above 32.25 amps is 53.05 amps; 164.5% above that is 85.30 amps. It might be better to state it as like "% of Current" or perhaps something else.
Cheaping out on the efficiency to make it cheap but safe is exactly what I want to see from a budget PSU!
Exactly. Heck I don't even care if it has just an 80 Plus rating, no bronze, for that price.
I feel like "nothing seriously wrong" is a victory for this little thermaltake unit! It gave a strong showing for costing less than some high end case fans!
It's probably fine for APU builds or super low end builds. All that ripple has little effect on a standard small CPU.
I have a similar unit in my 7 year old build, with a Haswell i5, and GTX 960 (at the time, I had no other corners I could cut if I wanted to fit the 960 and quad core in the budget). I’m rather surprised it hasn’t keeled over long ago.
I run a small PC company and we have a deal with Thermaltake on these.
They work great, we run their 430W model and 600W models respectively.
We mainly focus on lower-end systems but we've done higher-end RTX builds and still used these to save money for the customer, 0 issues in years of usage.
Prior to that we used a 450W Thermaltake model and it was fantastic also.
We used to use HighPower gold series (same that you see in Origin PC and other companies), and Apevia's gold series, I've found those to be less or equally reliable.
They get the job done.
the PSU gave 560W nothing broke, nothing exploded, no fire, way above the rated spec, far more then they power need of 95% of PC gamers in the world , 95% of actual gamers have low or mid range PCs with a i5 and a mid tier 3060 or 2060, this PSU can handle more than that easily, expensive PSUs are the biggest scan in the PC building world
@@leandrrob I wouldn't say a scam but if you aren't doing a lot of heavy overclocking you don't need to spend more than $75 on a PSU imo.
Seeing your self-rating on your expertise in this field rate you as a novice because you’re just getting started is some next level integrity and i’m here for it
We're trying to make sure everyone is on the same page! Adding a new category is difficult, and we want to make sure it's clear when you may want to still check a second source while we learn and improve!
This comment are my words exactly.
@@GamersNexus You might think you're novices because of experience, but this is some top notch explanation and data gathering.
I want to know how many years is deity...
No, you're not truly novice since you have a badass like Stone aboard, plus the expertise of your team developing test plans, gathering data, and producing reports and copy. But, I appreciate the conservative ranking system. It's not often people will willfully sell themselves short for the benefit of their customer/audience.
This psu is in 3 of my office PC's for almost a decade now. They run 12hrs a day every day. & Get cleaned out every year. They have survived 1 lightning strike with no apparent failure of their capacitors or mov's.
You sure its the exact same model? I dont remember TT Smart being around that long. And even if it is the same midel, I highly doubt that they're using the same parts as they did a decade ago.
@@TKIvanov they are smart power 450 with 80plus white and pfc.. cables are not sleeved. but runs great they powering a q6600 & a7870k and r3 2200g (the systems have been upgraded at due to different needs of each user but they were all build around 2012 with all of them at first having p4 631. the psu is very similar , i need to find the box to let u know the exact model.
@らてちゃん looks and protection in some cases where there is sharp metal exposed. i have had one pc came with intermittent shutdown and won't turn on again till power cycled turned out the sata power cable has rubbed through and shorting into the metal case which is ground causing the psu to shut down in overcurrent protection.
How could you pass up such a hot power supply as Diablo? What could go wrong pushing electricity through something named like a fire demon?
Wouldn't be surprised to see Diablo PSUs as a sponsor for House of the Dragon, alongside Gigabyte PSUs
I had a diablo psu before, it smelled weird every time I used it
The flames are a feature
The fire that ensues is the next new in-thing. Step aside RGB LEDs, open flames are IN!
@@HoloScope I imagine the smell was similar to when a tube TV burns out or when an electrical socket pops.
Been watching GN for years . Seen GN grow from games to hardware to full on testing with genuine lab equipment. Here's the thing, as you and your team have grown so has the community that you have created. Not just in size but in knowledge. Repairs that I tackle today I would not have even dared back in the early days of GN. But armed with my trusty mod mat and years of shared knowledge by GN and the community, replacing dead caps on an old motherboard doesn't seem like that much of a big deal. You have helped me share my love of PC's with my children and we often have discussions at dinner on the latest upload. Thank you
That's so awesome to hear that! Genuinely one of the most heart-warming comments I've read on the channel. Thank you for sharing.
@@GamersNexus Thanks GN
@@GamersNexus I graduated my last year of High School, class of 1978, attending a Tech School, 3-quarters of Radio & T.V. Repair. So, I've been a power supply junkie for decades....To my knowledge, the explanation of the components & their functions has never been covered in detail like this in any 'computer enthusiast' video.
Congratulations and Job Well Done, Steve & Company! For me, this was very satisfying to watch... 🇺🇸 😎👍☕
A fun test for GN would be testing a well aged used PSU that was once high end. Say one from 10+ years ago.
Because people love buying old formerly high end used PSU's for cheap, believing they're getting the same performance from them as when new.
And I know myself, PSU's are a consumable item that doesn't age too gracefully in some cases.
Would have loved to send over my old well used Corsair TX 650W that had seen solid use since I bought it back in 2009. 24/7 runtime for the last 5 years.
But it self destructed after what I suspect was a major short from being absolutely caked up with dust, looked like the inside of a vacuum cleaner bag.
The hardest part of buying old good quality PSUs are noisy or damaged fans, proper replacement fans are so hard to find since starting voltage is way too low in many PSUs (many PSU fans have a starting voltage of 3.0v) and the only brand I've seen that specifies Fan starting voltage is Arctic and Noctua. Besides, many are not PWM fans so this shrinks possible replacements even more. The only ones I was tempted to buy were Arctic's P12 or F12 since those have a starting voltage of 2.8v, good price and quality, no point in buying Noctua.
@@yorchli3152 Sunon KD1212PTB works pretty well for me. Double balls bearing and starts at 3V
That's why people say invest in a good psu, not only for the extra Watts/effic, but so that it lasts more than 3-4 years.
Or what about new ones that are old stock or old designs like the Seasonic S12II?
The power supply breakdown is solid gold. This information even helps me while restoring old CRT monitors. Thanks so much for this
09:47 that's interesting, I had a NTC thermistor blow up on an Enermax PSU about 12 years ago. The PSU would still work but I would hear a loud crack every time I switch on the mains, and when I looked I could see the green casing had blown out the side. The Seasonic replacement has been good since and I still use the PC for old games.
Wow! Still working since it was replaced 12 years ago?!
@@GamersNexus Yeah, that's how I learned it's worth spending on a quality PSU. Tempted to replace the whole PC when the new GPUs come out but I'm going to be in for a shock when I realise how much the typical prices have increased since then 😅.
I was running the included no name PSU from my amd opteron build back in 04 and it just died when I overloaded it with a new (used) graphics card and forgot to plug the fan in that I had re wired to an external header to keep the noise down.
Made it to almost 20 years, with about 5 years of down time before I upgraded the single core opteron to a used 3rd gen i5.
I have a Corsair GS700 that has seen i7-2600 when the CPU was brand new. Now powering i7-8700K @5.0GHz and RX5700XT and no prob whatsoever. Quality PSU will last a decade easily. If I ever need more power I will buy either Corsair or Seasonic 1000+w.
I had the same thing happen with a 10 year old HX or TX 650W Corsair made by Seasonic. It worked every time but there where sparks flying out of it every powerup.
I can solder and stuff BUT it was in such I tight space requiring a big tear down of the unit to get to it so I sad F-it and sent it for recycled it instead.
So its not a problem for just budget stuff, they seem to crack due to age I guess, heat cycling and also the shrink wrap around it is there to stop it exploding everywhere BUT dont help when its open at the top XD
I've bought a few of these over the years for absolute budget computers that have extremely cheap components, and they've always functioned properly.
What my personal rule of thumb is when buying a budget power supply is to buy something with a lot of reviews, go to the one star reviews, and see what the most common failures are.
The number one complaint for these thermaltake smart power power supplies (when I last checked!) was them being DOA.
At the time when I bought these, there were no reviews for "it killed xyz" or "Went up in smoke when I plugged it in".
I've actually avoided more expensive power supplies from name brands as there were trends where it would take out components, like the Corsair VS units, and so far my tactic has been working well.
Yeah the reviews are pretty spot on, i've built hundreds of PCs with low end TT PSUs and i've only ever had one DOA
Speaking of low wattage, Seasonic used to have a 360w gold rated model (SSR-360GP). It scored a VERY good review from jonnyguru. I have like 3 at this point (plus an OEM model). I wish they still made them.
We'll look into what they might make today as a replacement!
SSP-300SFG is a 300W 80+ Gold SFX unit I'm running in a SFF APU build which I built in November. Good unit
I have a couple of what I assume are the OEM versions: SSP-350GT also 80+Gold, no PCIe Power but I used them for office PCs so they're just fine.
Ironically in a similar vein, I replaced most other office PCs with some random Thermaltake grayboxes that I got for cheap. Sounds dangerous, but they're solid unlike the old PSUs whivh were made of the cheapest Chinesium you can find, and had:
* 3 just died.
* 3 had extremely rattly fans.
* 2 had _no fans_ idk how they still worked.
* 1 had a capacitor cover just dangling around. Still worked somehow.
* 2 had no fuses to speak of, just bypassed.
@@GamersNexus There are BeQuiet budget PSU's Im interested in, should be good for any modern 300-350W system like an Office PC or HTPC or just a reapir of and old system people want to keep alive. There are so many 775 systems and stuff people still use for home businesses and stuff that dont even have a 300W rated PSU from Dell ;)
They are called "BeQuiet System Power B9 Bulk PC" on Conrad, the 300W 80+ starts at 46€ here in Sweden, the 350W is 49€.
There OEM/Bulk so not even painted, just silver like the old days.
I think Bequiets model number for them are BN206 and BN207
I think the 300W dont have PCI-E power but the 350W I think has so yea very basic BUT sometimes thats all you need.
Me and friends often have to fix systems on a budget that are low power but still used.
Nothing I would use for a modern Enthusiast build but for an old system or building from used parts it might be an option when the budget is almost null.
@ BQ's 300-350W models are decent little supplies, they're just decade-old tech. Still using FSP's EPN platform by the looks of it. Unless you are actually in the business of building PCs on a certain scale, I see fairly little reason to buy one when you can get a good used Straight Power 10 (CM) 400W/500W, Pure Power 9 (CM) 500W or System Power 7 500W for the same kind of money or less, all of which are substantially more efficient and modern.
Something I think you guys may want to mention when discussing capacitor lifespan and temperature (so as not to make people think that their caps are going to go bad really fast) is that a capacitor's lifespan doubles for every 10°C below the rated temperature. So that cap will actually last 4,000 hours @ 95°C 8,000 hours @ 85°C, etc. It's not something the average person would know, and they might only hear "2,000 hours" and not fully understand what "2,000 hours at 105°C" actually means.
Thanks. I thought it was insanity that the manual claimed 100.000hr MTBF and then GN cracked it open to reveal 2000hr caps.
What kind of temperatures would be normal operating temps? Would they usually be in that 85° area extending the lifespan? Obviously there's a lot of variables like ambient temp, case, other hardware but I'm just wondering ballpark figures.
@@stevenjohnson1692 I mean it's really hard to say. Only the manufacturer would know that for sure. But under normal usage I would expect it to be much lower, considering the MTBF is 100,000 hours. To hit that, temps would probably be around 55° on average. 85° as normal operating temps would cause the cap to fail in less than 3 years at 8 hours per day of usage. But given the relatively low power of this unit, I don't think the air around the capacitor (which is what the temperature rating refers to) would ever really reach that temperature unless you are pushing it to the absolute limit and the fan has failed.
@@scuder179 ahh, yeah I didn't really think about the difficulty of getting a temperature on it. Of course especially for cheap products like this you gotta take everything the manufacturer says with a truckload of salt lol.
@@scuder179 I wonder why they didn't measure ESR (and ESL), that would give a lot better picture of the lifespan.
I have a Thermaltake Smart 630, it's been 5 years and the psu still works very well, with a few months exceptions, the pc has been on every day for roughly 10 hours, probably 50 power outages and several power spikes, B450+Ryzen 3 3100+RX 470
I have a 600 and it's seen a similar life for the past 2 years. Still quiet and reliable, just dusty
I’ve used a few of these in systems and builds and so far no issues. Yeah they aren’t excellent but for entry level systems, they work well. And I’d rather have Teapo capacitors than the no-name ones found in other cheap PSUs that are guaranteed to bulge or leak in a year or two.
Look forward to more testing of PSUs across basic to premium!
I started laughing when you reviewed this cuz I actually bought some of these for the all-in-one CPU with on board graphics motherboard combo. So good to hear that it's going to work. Feels good feel safer that you've tested this. Thank you.
this is a 430W PSU that handled 560W in the test, your spec is probably under 80W
@Steve
The 430W total output rating is not misleading just because the +12V rail is only rated for 387W as suggested in the video. As it suggests the "Total Power [Output]" is the total output that the PSU is rated to sustain from the power supply; "Total" includes the +12V, +5V, and +3.3V.
Other higher end power supplies often are able to do the entire rated output on the 12V rail because they are using DC-DC to generate the minor rails (5V, 3.3V). They take the +12V output and convert it to 5V and 3.3V. This means DC-DC power supplies need to be able to output the full power on the 12V rail as the power for the 5V and 3.3V rail is being taken from the +12V.
The Thermaltake Smart 430W is a group regulated power supply which doesn't generate the minor rails from the 12V output, so it doesn't need to output the total power from the 12V. The 12V and 5V rails are generated together and the 3.3V is usually generated from the 5V output (generating from 12V is also possible but since 5V and 3.3V maximum output is grouped together at 110W it's likely generating 3.3V from the 5V rail). One of the big problems with group regulation is the power supply regulates the voltage of 5V and 12V together, so if there is a heavy load on the 12V rail which causes the 12V voltage to drop the power supply will compensate by raising the voltage to both 12V and 5V since they are regulated together, which can cause the 5V rail to fall outside of the +/- 5% tolerance allowed in spec - and vice versa if there's a heavy load on 5V and light load on 12V. These crossload scenarios are part of the reason why group regulated power supplies aren't recommended [at all really, but especially for] systems with high end CPUs/GPUs as the high 12V load can potentially drag 5V rail out of spec.
While the CPU and graphics card are the biggest power consumers in most systems, there are still a lot of things that require 5V such as USB devices, HDDs, SSDs, and more... Even though the power supply is only rated for 387W on the 12V out of the 430W total (90% available on +12V) you can (potentially, depending on the specific setup) still get the full 430W output from when you factor things like USB devices and drives. Just because the maximum rated output isn't available on the +12V rail doesn't mean it's misleading. Realistically having 90% of the power available on the +12V rail for a low wattage power supply like this is going to be perfectly fine for most systems except for very odd edge cases.
In a DC-DC system loading up the minor rails will reduce the output of the 12V rail, it's just that it's arguably more flexible as you *could* get the entire output on 12V rail if the 5V/3.3V rail isn't loaded, but it's unlikely you'd ever be using a system that *only* has a +12V load and 0W load on +5V. Whatever load you have on the 5V/3.3V rails is going to be taking that power from the 12V rail counting towards its maximum rated output.
I see a lot of comments on forums/reddit saying that power supplies are "fake" or "lying" if they can't output the maximum power on the 12V rail and it can be difficult trying to explain it to people, and I'm worried someone trusted like GN perpetuating the myth is just going to make it more difficult. You should instead educate people on how to read the output power table on the power supply label. The table shows the maximum output for the +12V rail. Instead of saying it's misleading just inform people that with cheaper power supplies (group regulated) if the total output for 12V is important to you then you may need to pay more attention to details of the maximum output of each rail instead of just blindly going off the total output.
I know GN is still new to PSU reviews, and I think this is the first group regulated unit you have looked at, so hopefully you get to read this and at least now understand why on this power supply (and other group regulated power supplies) the total output rating isn't the same as the total output on +12V rail.
The breakdown from Patrick Stone going over each of the components was excellent though!
This seems to be a fair offering. I expected this one to perform worse tbh. One thing I would really love to hear more about during these psu reviews is noise level.
Yea, I thought this was an oversight on their part myself...It would be fairly easy for them to do...I have had several power supplies that were louder than my case fans!
Not sure how relevant this would be to the subject, but I have the 500w version of this series of psu and the the fan is basically silent. No coil whine to speak of.
I have this exact psu, its basically silent.
Yep, I have the Thermaltake Grand RGB and the coil whine is loud AF especially during idle.
I'm a recent follower of your channel and I really like your testing methodology and data presentation. You don't present "good" or "bad" data. You present data, then explain why you consider it good or bad. I like that. At first I thought your video lengths were crazy, but after watching a few, it's crazy how much info you cram into the videos for their length. You're doing great work. Keep it up!
I'm so glad you guys are branching out into more and more areas of testing. It's been so cool to see you grow. :)
When we buy PSU's like these, we know what we're getting into. I bought one to revive a 10 year old system and has been running as a file server with no issues for awhile now. Great video.
Yeah I saw a comment about some guy saying he has these in his office PCs and of course the comments are ripping on him for using them but it seems like they missed the part where he said "office PCs." I wouldn't trust this in any gaming PC but in a standard office PC with onboard graphics It's most likely fine...
@@Gatorade69 It's almost like they didn't watch the end of the video
@@Gatorade69 the standart officePC runs fine with 200W PSUs that can actually only output 150 but never gets more than 70W dragged from them
I like that GN recently includes more of the other staff in their videos. Really makes you appreciate all their knowledge and different fields of expertise.
This psu diagram is fantastic, ty to those who suggested and to gn for honoring the request! THANKS STEVE
In this price range, "meets the spec" is good enough. It actually makes the Gigabyte failures all the more ridiculous.
The -12V SCP fail is the real discrepancy for the target use case.
Two comments on the data:
1. The first pass on the block diagram would have been better if a bit larger and not presented as an overlay on Patrick Stone.
2. It would have helped to have the Intel spec identified on the chart if that value was in the chart range. I would not expand the chart to include it, but I think it would help to better understand what is, and is not, meeting the spec.
It doesn't quite meet the spec however. The cables are shorter than advertised :P
"The -12V SCP fail is the real discrepancy for the target use case." pretty sure they didn't include any protection in the specs, while only the -12V failed.
Thank you - built my first computer with help from GN and I come back for the power supply disassembly. Learning about computer parts has been my favorite part about the project, and GN has been one of the more accessible ways to get information. Best wishes!
Great review guys, I love that you emphasized the target market for the unit and didn't just call it "the worst PSU in it's class" or some other drama centric nonsense. These "budget" parts exist for a reason and knowing that it does the job it's intended to and does it passably well is all most people in the position to need such a cheap PSU want to know. At these price points even $5 makes a huge difference in component specs/performance. I can't imagine the margins on these are very high so kudos to Thermaltake for even producing these at such a low price point while keeping the quality at least safe for the intended use (unlike cheaper units). This is the kind of review I like to see. Some channels seem to have forgotten that not everyone can afford high end parts and bash on budget options (unfairly) just to get views.
I love the experience meter on the side to inform everybody watching that you still have more to learn, it is super open and transparent for viewers who may not watch you as regularly
I remember the days of getting "Free" power supplies with the case. In the early 2000's this was the thing todo when selling a case. Some of the most cool cases i found had a power supply included and no option to buy without for cheaper lol. The last one i had was a mini atx "Xcube" case around 2004, the PSU lasted about 6 months before taking out my motherboard. It smoked randomly, crackled, melted wires going to motherboard and the 24pin connector on motherboard.
@AdamsWorld I can remember buying a case with power supply for only $25 back in the 90's at computer shows, this was normal and everyone used these for builds!
@@davidg2731
The equipment of those times needed 75% less energy than modern components
I guess that's the whole explanation
In the "for what it's worth" department, I've built hundreds of machines with these over the last fifteen years, and they've been nearly perfect. I can't remember the last failure. I've also built with at least dozens, if not hundreds, of the other wattage of TT Smart PSUs, and I think the only failure has been a DOA.
@gamersnexus maybe add some testing that looks for performance impacts of the voltage variability?
I've had the 500w version of this in a spare PC of mine for around 2 years now, and I haven't had any problems with it so far. Granted, it only has to run an i3 9100f and GTX 1060 3gb, but at one point it powered a GTX 470 with no issues. I'd say for the price, it's not bad at all.
Running 6 years strong with my 750w Thermaltake PSU. Haven't had issues with my GTX 1070 and ryzen 3600x. I even stupid stuff before
I appreciate that you guys put up the years of expertise thing even when its not favorable to call yourselves "novices."
I appreciated the block diagram/walk through and discussion of component choices/topology compared to higher quality power supplies. I understood the fundamentals already, but the visual representation of it combined with the part-by-part explanation was quite helpful. Being able to identify group regulated PSUs visually will be helpful in my own PSU testing. I'm prototyping a PSU adapter specifically for building AT PCs in ATX cases, and some of the issues I've run into with minimum loads tie into the topology and regulation.
Isn't the 5volt problem not the bigger issue? Most modern-day PSU's only have a output of 100W on the 5 volt lines while a decent P1 system could suck up 150/200W. Also the -5 volt line has disappeared from the ATX standard for a very long time now (which was the white cable on the 24 pin connector) and is used by some ISA cards. I know the Soundblaster 16 and AWE 32 needs -5 volt to function properly, which was the reason I had to unfortunately hunt down a old PSU with the white -5 volt cable for my P2 system.
@@thundereagle4130 The limited 5v output of newer PSU designs is certainly an issue, but just checking spec sheets is usually enough to figure out if a PSU will do the job in that respect. There are a number of ways to implement a -5v rail when a PSU doesn't supply it: Phil's Computer Lab has the Voltage Blaster which is a tiny ISA card with VRM circuitry to supply -5V in a plug and play fashion. Alternatively, you can roll your own that fits inline between the ATX PSU and AT power connectors.
These new PSU reviews are great. I've a friend who needs a cheap PSU just to repair a office PC, I'd suggest this since it's serviceable. One suggestion for these reviews I think is that if it's possible to add wave graphs of peak to peak ripples just out of interest plus in my opinion, it'll better visualise the ripples.
What you want is called an oscillogram. That's a capture from the screen of an oscilloscope. I think Steve's Rigol is capable of saving screen captures. You have to look at scopes a lot to develop some context for their waveforms to have much meaning.
Good to see you guys review something like this, I feel that stuff like these budget units are often never reviewed. Keep up the good work.
man lmg can buy all the expensive equipment they want, nothing compares to the professional quality your reviews bring to the community.
The power supply breakdown and explanation was so cool! Thank you so much for explaining their layout and subcomponents.
It was very in-depth and very clearly explained.
Glad to see that you gave a recommended use case for this Power supply even if you couldn't recommend it for most people.
This ought to be fun. I regularly use this PSU in entry level client builds. So far haven't had a single one fail over the years. But then again they are usually Athlon 3000g, 2400g, or 5600 level builds used for basic computing and integrated graphics are all that is needed. Can't wait to see how these do when put through the ringer. Thanks Steve!!
Ouch lol
I really liked the way you explained the extra testing you did on the -12v rail instead of just saying "it failed lol"
It's really good seeing this type of content. I'm from Brazil and here hardwares are VERY expensive. Usually the mid-level products are considered high-end products here.
This is a lot closer to what I can recommend to my friends.
Thanks for the review, as always, it's great to have more coverage of this otherwise under-represented part of the market.
One suggestion that I would like to see implemented is to show the output voltage and ripple at the point when OCP triggers. If OCP is at 150% at 12V but output and ripple stay under control, it's not much of a problem. On the other hand, if OCP triggers at 130% but 12V output drops to 10.8V with .1V of ripple, that would be a problem.
Either way, I look forward to your next review!
This PSU is appropriately named. It is smart to not waste money on a PSU that does more than what you need. Thank you Gamers Nexus for testing it and verifying that it works and poses no danger to your other components.
Problem with this review is simple: these thermaltake smart units seem to change components and manufacture constantly, its why the labels/specs were different in 3 places.
interesting - makes sense
It is so great there is now a UA-cam channel which does reliable PSU reviews. A good quality PSU is important for other components, how long they work and how well they work. People often spend way too much to buy some over specced motherboard, but skimp when they buy a PSU. I have always used and recommended good PSU's (often using jonnyguru as source, which is no longer active) and motherboards with decent VRMs (not the most expensive ones, but anything with good enough VRM) and every build has lasted like 10+ years of use. Much respect for this channel for reviewing PSUs and doing it properly.
Thank you for making this review. This is exactly in the range of my budget and I cannot really pay much more. I even saw this exact PSU as a potential option. Having your opinion on it is invaluable for people like me who can't afford what we would actually want to buy. We buy "GN it's OK" stamped hardware because we just can't do any better. I hope to see more of this budget PSU reviews on the channel, it really makes a difference for people like me. BTW, I know that there are some cheap "It's OK" cases out there waiting for your reviews that would really help the community.
I'm proud of you! You got out the duster and rags and cleaned off that pile of equipment you bought but hardly ever used, and actually put it to use again!
I bought an Emachine over 10yrs ago it still works.
I still have one!
As an engineer for ~40 years, and one that headed up the power supply lab for mainframes at NCR,I can tell you that when it comes to power supplies, you get what you pay for. One thing that bothers me about many PSUs is the efficiency. We were able to reach 98% with our switching supplies using what we called mag amps (magnetic amplifiers). I see way too many that are below 90%.
I never pay under $150 for a PSU, but I suppose if I needed a cheap PC then I would go lower.
There are plenty of pure DC/DC converters that don't reach 98% of efficiency, let alone complete ATX power supplies - the best ones make it to over 95% on a good day, and what happens if you only want 10 or 20 watts out of them is another matter entirely.
PC power supplies are mass market consumer products that have to hit quite a number of performance targets including size, reliability in the field (which may actually suffer if efficiency is pushed hard, as owners of the Seasonic Prime Titanium series SSR-xxxTD may be able to attest), safety, EMI, efficiency, standby power, power factor and cost - oh, and they're supposed to look pretty, too. It's a tough business, and the big OEMs behind the scenes all sport considerable amounts of vertical integration.
Mag amps are fascinating electrical engineering secret sauce that few outside the field of power supplies have even heard of. Even the general engineering public is not very well versed in magnetics. This might be a good topic for EEVBlog Dave, actually...
6:25 - The datasheet numbers are not sacred values. The datasheet says 8A continuous at a case temperature of 100C. It doesn't say you can't pass 10A with external cooling, like from the fan. However, it will never draw 10A unless it fails. Highest nominal current will be about 5A (~500W at 100VAC), so the 8A rectifier has 60% nominal margin. It's fine.
Anything Patrick said just flew a million miles over my knowledge on this. 10/10
Thats the exact same I bought 5 years ago for my ryzen "upgrade" knowing it would barely scrape what I needed.
It hasnt failed once yet so it was definetly a win for me for the price I paid.
Currently running a R5 1600, RX580, 32GB ram and way too many hard drives with no issues. I'm planning on getting a 3060 but I dont trust the PSU to be able to handle it comfortably so an upgrade is certainly on my to do list.
your system uses 185W + 65W =250 plus some 30 for the hard drives, coolers etc, you would be probably fine on a 350W PSU since they might be able to survive some 450W ocasional loads
you'll be fine. i used to run an i7 2600 and an undervolted rx470 on a 240watt dell psu. when i bought my ryzen system, i went for a 430watt evga psu and ran a r5 2600 and gtx 1070 with zero problems (undervolting wasn't needed, but i did it). i recently upgraded to a 1080ti (250watt tdp) and the 430watt psu is still doing fine with the undervolted gpu. granted, i do not feel comfortable running it without the undervolt, but i undervolt all my cards anyway.
also, i just looked up the tdp for each card, and it turns out that your 580 is actually rated for higher tdp than the 3060, 185watts vs 170watts.
Isn't the 3060 more power efficient than the rx580?
@@wisico640 yeah but in the end, its is a cheap psu that has been used for 5 years nonstop...
Plus the previous one I had I gave away to a friend that had a similar power draw than my pc and he ended up blowing it up a week later
@@QruisS fair enough, a good psu should last quite a while longer tho.
I have an old PC Power & Cooling 750w that has been running for like 14 years & still gives off solid voltages 😂
It was a pleasant surprise that the low-end option won't blow up or catch fire. Even better that it's actually usable! Thanks for doing this. 👍
It's amazing to see a $30 PSU built without Chinese crap capacitors and transistors! The topology of this is TTF + diode rectification, and I personally recommend this kind of PSU for people with low budget because it's really cheap and robust.
By the way, the choke nearby the standby transformer is the mag-amp for 3.3v, not for 5vsb regulation.
Teapo is cheap chinese crap. I've replaced thousands of failed Teapo capacitors in all matters of electronic equipment. The green vomit ones usually leak, the black ones with the gold stripe usually have a seal failure, dry out and short out.
I was super surprised. Some of their higher wattage models use the likes of chengx or asiax, so to see Teapo across the board and even 105°C rated, very nice.
@@GGigabiteM Teapo is Taiwanese, but for some people there's no difference there. :p
@@maicrowsoft8867 They're both China. One is a republic (Taiwan), the other is a communist totalitarian dictatorship (mainland China), for the time being. The CCP is making war noises, so we'll see what happens.
Both make cheap trash products. Both also make some good products, but the bad far outweighs the good.
@らてちゃん All capacitor failure is bad, but leaking is worse because the electrolyte is both corrosive and conductive. If the leak is left long enough, it will eat into the circuitry and can seep inside the PCB and cause irreversible damage.
A short can be good if the circuitry is properly designed, a fuse can be blown or have OCP and shut the device down. In that case, you just have to change the caps.
Capacitors that go high ESR is another bad scenario. The capacitor effectively becomes a big resistor that draws heavy current and can blow components both up and downstream of it. I've seen a single bad capacitor cause cause multiple cascading failures that blew quite literally every component on the device to pieces.
10:40 A discharge resistor would normally be added there in the design to discharge this high-voltage capacitor over about 1 to 4 minutes. Usually from 100 to 400 volts down to 10 volts in within 5 minutes. If I am working on a PSU that doesn't have a discharge resistor then I'll discharge the cap, calculate an appropriate value and add the resistor to the board myself. It just makes it safer later on when myself or someone else needs to work on it again. I usually make sure the resistor only has to dissipate about 1/8W while in normal use and use a 1/4W resistor direct on the caps leads underneath.
Would be cool if GN put together a "logical increments" PC build tier list
Definitely. With click links so they get paid or similar reward when we buy.
what do you mean by “logical increments”? like how much you should spend on each part for certain budgets?
Thanks for also having low budget stuff, these video's are the best because they are more easily relatable since more people can affort lower budget products then enthousiast products.
I'd really love to see some of the low end Corsair and EVGA power supplies compared to this. Especially the bronze models. Most of the budget builds I've seen run $30-40 PSU's from those 2 brands.
Agreed. Lots of people buying low end evga and Corsair.
I had a Corsair cx650m years ago kill the motherboard ram GPU and even the CPU it was i5 4690k,Msi Gaming 5 motherboard,2x8gb gskill ripjaws and msi R9 290X I got it all from the same company and they swapped it all went with a different power supply tho they said they would get reimbursed from Corsair as the PSU was at fault with there testing
@@randomshorts739 Daaamn! Mf took everything with him?! I had a no-name PSU die during a storm like 13-14 years ago, it took nothing with it.
@@TKIvanov Yeah destroyed the whole PC just bought all the parts and the first time I turned it on for about £1200 I paid. The company I bought the parts from was really good done testing on all the parts and agreed with me IT was the powers supplies fault they just sent out all new parts apart from the power supply got a seasonic instead
Corsair low end PSUs are crap, would trust this over a Corsair low-end PSU any day of the week
I’ve had this same power supply for 2 years and it has done great
Personally, I really like the Thermaltake SMART series PSUs.
I’ve been using them for the last few years with absolutely no issues to speak of (from the perspective of an ‘everyday man’ casual consumer) , and is currently my go-to for my lower end and mid-range systems (from a Core 2 Duo 38600 + GTX 750 system, to a i7-7700K + GTX 1060).
Can’t say I’ve used the 430W, though; I usually go with the 600W or 700W model. Still.
Yeah that's age of parts where energy efficiency was prized
probably better size to most PSU's are not very efficient at full capacity
Thermaltake do not make their own power supplies they contract it out to various OEM, so if you buy their cheap PSU you get the ones made to be cheap. Their higher end PSUs will be made by one of the better manufacturers who don't cut corners and use high quality cap. i.e. their Toughpower range is generally good.
Great! Bought this one for my mom's 5600g, 170W build despite the F tier in the tierlists, so it's good to hear that it'll probably be A-OK.
Thanks for the review! Very very useful!
While the cheaper power supplies are interesting, it would be nice to see GN review some of the really high end PSUs as well. It would especially give a good comparison of really high end components to components like this one. Additionally with the rumoured power consumption of the upcoming RTX 4 series, higher watt/higher quality PSUs will potentially becoming more important.
Something like the Antec Signature Series 1000W Titanium, or the Corsair AX1000, or the Seasonic Prime Titanium they are based on. These are the ultra top end (I have the Antec one myself). Would be interesting to see Patrick compare the components of the crème of the crop PSU components to the ultra budget like this, as well as the mid-range stuff.
Working on more. For now, this one fills that! ua-cam.com/video/ftF8V6Di84s/v-deo.html
does Antec still make power supplies? We can't buy them in Scandinavia anymore because they had too many warranty issues
used to use the built in power supplies in antec sonata 3s thinking "antec is fine!", had one die on me
got an ocz xstream when 80+ came out since it was the cheapest 80+ power supply in my budget, died on me
i have not made the power supply mistake in over a decade. used to check jonnyguru and get something they gave very high ratings to (usually seasonic), now you guys are filling that hole in the review space. love it.
When I tell people "Don't cheap out on the PSU" there are a few good reasons for this;
Namely most people get to the point where their current hardware isn't keeping up and generally it's a new GPU that will get swapped in. Having a good PSU allows you, even 5+ years down the line to easily swap out and power a current-gen card.
The other reason is mainly all the horror stories about the Ali Express specials that tend to go pop and take other components with them
Yep. When I started building PCs I was a young kid going into high school and I didn't have much money so I always skimped on the power supplies... and always had problems with them. Luckily none ever exploded but I did get BSODs.
Definitely don't cheap out with lesser known brands. They've got much less to lose. With more known brands you're just very likely to get old, cheap to produce, designs with lower efficiency (and lower operating times, I.E. don't expect it to get far past years of insurance it has).
@@MLWJ1993 I had this power supply from OCZ ? You remember them ? Ever heard of them ? Too bad they no longer exist, they made good products. I loves that power supply and used it in 3 different builds. It was still working just fine in 2016.
Great video with the "no BS allowed" presentation of facts I really appreciate. Also, I'm sure you already know this but I'll just reaffirm that you're right: those Gigabyte PSUs catching on fire clips will never get old.
Honestly, I'm amazed they can design, build, and ship a halfway decent PSU for $30. So, to some extent, TT should be applauded for making something that *probably* won't catch your house on fire at this price.
That being said, I would never buy it, and would likely never recommend it.
Thermaltake probably didn't design it, hardly anyone selling power supplies do these days even if their logo makes it to the PCB.
If your shocked at this thing costing $30 you'll probably be even more shocked at how much it would cost if you take the TT branding away and get it directly from the OEM.
There is a very good reason seemingly every "makes" power supplies, it's very profitable even at the low-end.
@@zacharytaylor8523 yep good points. Although at this price point I'm sure TT isn't marking it up much. It would be curious to know what the BOM cost is. But then it needs to be branded, packaged, shipped, and the retailer needs to make something on it too.
@@zacharytaylor8523 Yeah, low-end stuff in particular is outsourced. According to old threads TT uses OEMs like HEC, Channel Well Technology, and FSP. This power supply has probably been in production for well over a decade though so it'll still be one of them.
TT doesn't make PSUs. It's basically the same hardware Great Wall and CoolerMaster and a dozen other budget brands use. Generally the brand companies order them to meet a certain price point and specifications, so you can get crap and great stuff coming out of the same factory, and for the same reason the work Steve and boys do is important because it is near impossible for consumers to tell what is what. Being a brand name does not automatically mean the unit you buy is any good (looking at you, CoolerMaster), just like a low end brand like Great Wall (which you'll find in stuff like Walmart PCs) actually isn't all that terrible - I mean, they don't blow up and won't fry your stuff
I've been using a thermaltake 600w smart white for two years now and it's pretty good, I've never been let down with thermaltake products tbh
It would be nice to see a really good PSU for a high end system tested. That way you can see the difference in the 50-80 range and the say 120+ range.
Been using one of these in a low-end 2200G HTPC / NVR for nearly three years and all has been well [so far].
You need to tell that power supply buddy of yours to slow down and enunciate his words. He is speaking so fast that it is difficult to understand and digest what he is saying. He is also jumping from one stage to the next very quickly without a clear boundary/break/pause etc from the other section and just keeps pushing through. Someone who doesn't have a clear understanding of components will just go all glassy eyed. I have noticed that people on youtube are in a hurry to rifle as many words at the audience as possible so they won't get bored or move onto something else. I do think this video is excellent and very valuable to people looking to purchase that power supply or understand the components inside. Buying the cheapest one isn't always the best idea for component longevity. Some of the testers that used to do this aren't around anymore so it's nice to see someone taking up the mantle and running with it.
I got the 600W version of this PSU in a CyberpowerPC prebuilt running a 1700x, 16gb RAM and a 1070. I've since given that PC to my daughter but it's been holding up for over 5 years now with heavy use.
Always, always thank you for the total transparency with everything, including admitting your experience level with psu reviews! It's honestly surprising your dedication to integrity and doing things in a fair way. I know that is pretty much the opposite of a modern business model (or any model ever lol), but the need for this kind of attitude in the review space is alarmingly evident nowadays with everything from movies to food being sold through hype instead of quality. I don't comment much and I praise channels even more rarely, but y'all are one of a kind. Keep it up everyone at GN, take it from a 5+ year fan, what you're doing works!
Thank you so much! Having 5+ year veterans around here is important to us. It helps us remember why people liked us originally so that we can keep doing more of that.
Yeah -12V is not used anymore by any PCs/MBs, I believe it was used for RS232/RS485 or some other legacy stuff.
I hope intel removed that rail from the newest ATX standard.
Btw. 24:30 did you actually physically verify that the cables are 18AWG?
-12v is also used in old soundcards (isa/pci), but modern uses are likely nonexistant.
@@MeatPoPsiclez Yeah it probably would've been only few cards and obviously none are used these days really.
Someone does PRO audio stuff you just get external ones.
ATX 2.0 is really obsolete.
Please please please keep reviewing these lower budget products, so much more helpful than reviewing high end parts that companies want to show off. These are the parts most people will use and knowing what's the best in this category is so helpful to not to just people doing research on a budget but also for the people giving the recommendations to friends that aren't as interested in following PCs and tech
Personally I'm more interested in them reviewing mid tier stuff. Like finding a unit that performs really well for a decent price. I will never buy the cheapest nor will I buy th3 most expensive.
I'm curious how this compares to the PSUs included in prebuilts (dell, hp and the like) since they often have good 80+ ratings but low wattage
What I also wonder is how this compares to the two other 30$ PSUs I could find on amazon which are the EVGA W1 500W and the EVGA W3 450W. While testing those is probably not worth the effort I still wonder how they stack up...
I'd like to see the W3 since the only legit review is gone and the enclosure has gone under some revisions, so possibly a changed internal layout. Last I recall, it actually performed pretty well for a group regulated unit like this smart.
The W1 has been reviewed by Aris(psu reviewer for tomshardware/kit guru/etc.) a year or two ago, and the result was the bridge rectifier exploding when under max load, so that'd be a fun test I suppose.
OEM prebuilts don't have cross-load problems because 12V-only, and can use higher quality parts at the same total cost -- again because 12V-only.
@@Vegemeister1 I didn't know they only used 12V. I guess there is at least one upside to proprietary stuff.
@@Vegemeister1 And a pretty smart way to save money / get a better psu for the same money
i bought 4 of this power supply last month and made a small office pc with them for clients and when i clicked your video i was like $hit i have to change them now. but thanks god it passed your tests
This is where Linus has lost the plot, he no longer provides reviews that the average Joe wants to see, tech like this. He'd rather show us his giant $10000 monitor in his house than tech people actually can buy and need. Well done GN!
I stopped watching Linus years ago, the guy definitely lost the plot.
Found there own niche though. Once the lab is done I'm sure we'll see more normal people stuff
i have a thermaltake one in my old ivy bridge system.
its still working fine, even after heavy gaming and blender rendering usage with god knows how many thousands of hours on the clock, if not 10.000 hours of operation.
kinda crazy how cheap this thing is. you can get an entire power supply for the cost of a single premium case fan from Noctua or Corsair
Goes to show the actual bare margin on "premium" fan :-)
The molded parts are pennies and the PCB is populated in smd jelly bean. Yes its round so an extra penny..
If you take out development costs and copper winding /rare earth magnets then there should be quite a lot of money to gain
@@kitecattestecke2303 You're probably mostly right, but for premium fans I expect them to use more-costly forming processes for the frame and impeller since they need tight tolerances. Also Noctua claims to use their own proprietary polymer for the impeller rather than a commodity plastic, which would raise costs.
it is indeed - the power supply is fine, for reference a 300W/30V open frame (no fan) with 85% efficiency would be over $200 at mouser.
I've had a seasonic s12 ii bronze PSU for about 5 years and it's been absolutely amazing. Invest in the PSU.
Just wish they made more BETTER PSU's since like the smallest you can get(of GOOD quality) these days are like 550-650W which is a bit overkill for a 100W pc
You can get 300 watt PSU Be quiet has a good one for the price be quiet! Pure Power 11 300W, 80 PLUS Bronze, power supply
Have a look into PicoPSU.
Although you get to 200W+ really fast (far from 450 though). A smaller CPU, MB, maybe a PCI-e card and a disk or two probably already comfortably get you there.
This has been a super useful video for me. I have several lower tier builds coming up, and I can be confident using this PSU now.
I know this is a gamers channel but I'm interested in the low-load efficiency of cheap, low-capacity power supplies for home servers; or other always-on, low-power devices. It would be cool to see which, if any, supplies have decent efficiency at 10W or 2% of max rated capacity. Or does the spec as written not set a meaningful standard?
I'm also interested in this. My guess is that you'd be better off using a shared high-efficiency industrial PSU (e.g. 12V) together with one Pico-PSU (or its cheaper clones) per server. In one of the slides, you can see that the efficiency on all the consumer PSUs they tested is atrocious (50%-60% range) at 2% load, even the high-end ones, because they have fixed overhead and are not optimized for very low loads.
Patrick, that t-shirt is amazing! Sadly, it was a bad time/mood for me (and people from where I am) to think about PC/gaming stuff (and not that now it is much better). Still, it warms my heart that someone from this area actually thought about us and, even more, did something to help. God bless you and keep a good work! Will gladly buy a couple of similar limited t-shirts if you decide to give them another go. Thanks!
P.S.: Your reviews are amazing as always, you're my favorite PC components reviewing channel, by a good margin.
Every video you guys post you bring it to another level.
Love Patrick's section here with the diagram. This is very helpful. Also, kudos to Patrick for using a wooden pointer instead of the screwdriver like Steve always uses :P
"Back to you, Steve!".
Never gets old..
Fantastic video on why I always tell people to avoid thermaltake products, period - and cheap power supplies as a rule
I love how Steve just throws the packaging the same realistic way most of us do.
I've been running Thermaltake power supplies for years now. Built a few computers for other people with them as well. Not one single problem. They were not 430 watt supplies but rather all 700 watt and above. Meanwhile my EVGA 500 watt popped in a week but would have cost almost the same price as it cost, to ship it back for RMA. It is a nice paper weight in the box.
Been using the 500w version of this supply since 2018 in a hobby mining rig i built to get some more use out of my 2 old gpus that I was done gaming with. Only about a 200w load or so but it's going strong to this day.
I have used a smart series 700 watt for years with no issues, got it on sale (80 cad to 50) after my old PSU randomly died and was on a budget. Has served me well, though I can't say I'm not a little nervous about it
Even though I've bought ~100EUR quality PSUs for several years, it's nice to see reviews of cheaper ones, which aren't fire hazards. Like Steve said, seems like a passable unit for a budget setup.
This review is Bob on! What Steve says it’s refreshing - yes it’s cheap, yes it’s FAR from ideal - but it shows it does what it says in the tin and to acknowledge that for some people “don’t cheap out” isn’t an option.
The review years ticker. This satisfies my pop up video nostalgia.
I bought the 500 watt Smart PSU.... after a few days it started sparking and wouldn't power on. I took it back to microcenter and got a cheep 500w EVGA and it worked out great. Microcenter guy told me they are getting a lot of these Thermaltake PSUs back.
Yep, the Thermaltake Smart-series and the like, are banned by me. If found in a PC, they are usually taken out on the spot!
I am the owner of that power supply since 2019. I have used with a 1070 and a 2600x and have no issues. It even handle an upgrade to a 5800x with both the GPU and CPU running a stress test for an hour with no issues. Definitely a good powert supply for the money.
Low end reviews and test are always welcome. Good job.
This is what I’ve been waiting for, interesting to see bottom end super cheap for something so important
Will admit, I'm bias for thermaltake products simply because I've used them for several personal budget builds through my life (from cases to now psu). Currently own a 500w version of this psu and its been running well enough for my current rig, surviving through several rolling blackouts that happened in my area. Appreciate the review of this and glad to know its not purely the worst psu I could've purchased.
Good to see a review on a PSU I actually have.
I bought this for my retro gaming PC; Dell Inspiron 531 upgraded with an AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+, 8GB of RAM, Nvidia GTX 260, a boot SSD and a games HDD. Dual booting W98 and XP.
I wouldn't have put this PSU in any other system than this, but heck, it was cheap and it works great in that system that only gets used once or twice a week.