If King Seiko is supposed to be positioned just below Grand Seiko and above Presage, it really does deserve a chronometer grade hi beat movement; how on earth can they justify it otherwise?
I think this shows what types of people are running Seiko, or at least this division of Seiko. They have little idea what they are doing (besides "do a reissue to keep up with market trends, and put a cheap movement inside it because it'll cut costs"), and they clearly don't understand the significance of their own King Seiko movement history.
Until Seiko cares enough to make a change by either putting a new upgraded movement or the existing 6l movement in their $1000 to $2000 priced watches, every review of these watches no matter how good the rest of the watch might be will always have a "but" in it. I would imagine they are aware of this..
I think they can justify it with finishing that competes with Grand Seiko and is on par with Rolex for a fraction of the cost, stop partaking in the spiritually bankrupt economics of atomic time keeping and enjoy your watches for their beauty on the wrist
I'd take a 8L35 for a couple hundreds more. Or leave the 6R31 but drop below 1500$ just like Prospex are mostly priced around 1000-1300$. This is a Ferrari with a 3-cylinder in it...
@@MasterSam85 I get what you’re saying but technically this is an amazing looking piece at a decent price for what you’re getting, watch geeks are always complaining about one thing, if it had a date window I’d be complaining about that, I’m just happy a manufacturer made a beautiful piece at a conservative size that looks amazing, there are other options if timekeeping is that important to you, Longines probably do some uninspiringly finished pieces that are cosc for similar prices
what s wrong with rhis movement. It does the job. It is not comparable to a car motor. For example a Ferrari V12 is really special and makes a big difference. Personally I don't see the différence
I love Seiko/GS, so it really bothers me to see them drop the ball like this. King Seiko deserves a quality movement;by not providing one, Seiko’s denigrating it’s own history, while trying to sell these models off the Story. I see it as being somewhat of a letdown for Seiko fans, what with all the positives the watch has to offer. This strategy does little to instill confidence in the market outside the Seiko-sphere, thereby losing an opportunity to compete w/other brands in this category. Thanks for the great review!
I bought this KS because it has an improved 7s26 ... Time keeping is excellent. I don't know why people are complaining. No date.. 37mm. Beautiful one-watch collection.. I love it.. if you prefer a 6L movement, the price would be doubled🙄.. then people will complain about the price !
The movement is nonconsistent and lottery to get decent one. It's no date version of 6r35 which is really bad. In My spb149 it was constantly doing +15s/day and for no reason it decided to go to - 11s/day over 2 weeks period. Look up the reviews of watches with this movement and you see the non existent accurracy is all over the place. Get longines for the price.
@@Adam-eh4fq I bought it 2 months ago. I paid $1500.. the tolerance is -2 minutes per month which is not bad at all. It is better than my speedmaster which I sold 2 years ago. I tried Longines Spirit. The KS looks and wears superior even though I have 7.5" wrist. but again it is a personal taste.
Maaaan I’m so addicted to GS videos right now! I’m still just learning everything about Seiko, GS and King Seiko! Thank you so much for this. So informative… as always! Great video ! ❤️✨
The Grand Seiko here is the first and only high end watch I've ever purchased. Nice to see it shown off a bit here, I feel like the winter gets overlooked by the Snowflake but it's my favorite of the seasons.
I wanted to buy a king seiko so bad but as soon as i heard about the movement i bought the alpinist reinterpretation with the green dial for less than half the price of the king seiko. Hope they will continue the king-series with a better movement. UPDATE: Bought a vintage King Seiko 5626. One of the best watches i ever purchased. Finishing is out of this world and it keeps time at +1sec per day. That's insane for a 50 year old watch.
Honestly, most people care more about the looks and wearability. As long as the movement provides a few plus or minus seconds per day it should be fine. I have a SARB033 that has a 6R15 movement and I only have to adjust the time once a week because it gains almost two minutes a week. That doesn’t bother me because I like it better because of its looks. As long as the movement is reliable and consistent I don’t really care much.
As a proud owner of a KS 45-7000, couldn't agree more. A 36k hi-beat would be very welcome; or at least something more befitting the history (even though the 44 didn't beat as fast). I honestly think Seiko's _previous_ tribute is more compelling: the SCVN001, which pays more direct homage to the 52KS line (which also happens to look a lot more like my 45). This tribute is both external _and_ internal with a 4S15 that was directly derived from the 52 series.
Nah a 4hz automatic would be nice at this price point. I mean the hamilton khaki field auto has similar specs at almost a grand less. The Ball Fireman enterprise has a swiss movement with great shock resistance with a 4hz movement, but it does lack in the power reserve department (but its 700 dollars less). So yeah they could've at least offered a 4hz movement with a decent power reserve at this price point for sure.
The King Seiko movement is indeed an insult. Longines gets much better time keeping at about $1,800-$2,200 with modern movements. As for the rest, a key issue is the quality of the finishing. Is KS all machine finished? This line might have a place in the Seiko lineup, but I'm not sure it has much of a place in many collections, unless they are Seiko-only collections.
I think I could forgive everything else about this watch if they has used a 6L35 movement instead of the 6R35. At least then it'd be 4hz and a lot thinner.
With some Seiko's already more expensive than the low-end Grand Seiko's, is this not something that will only confuse the market for anyone who isn't a watch nerd.
It's really not even close. GS is just far and away a better watch, better craftsmanship, better movement, better everything. Even with the massive price difference, it is 100% worth it
Awesome review! Spot on comparison with the Honda NSX. I’m excited with this new KS and also wish them to succeed. The looks, size, and heritage are fantastic, making it a must have if you are, like me, a 6.5 inch wrist Seiko fan. Fingers crossed Seiko will upgrade its movement! 🍀✨
If there were no names or branding on the dial, I would honestly go for the King Seiko over the GS. Why then did Seiko not put a King grade movement in the watch? Sometimes its like Seiko handicap themselves, giving other brands a helping hand! Great video. Thanks for sharing.
I thought you were going to say Omeganut insisted you show a photo of his luminous dinosaurs. It's a fantastic looking watch that King Seiko, the price was a bit more than I thought but what do I know about Seiko. Great one again Max, keep them coming.
What is most confusing about this is the fact this watch is for watch nerds. Most consumers who are just looking for a nice watch around this price point will choose a Tag, Longines, Tudor or even Oris. You can only find these in GS boutiques and these won't reach your average consumer. The watch officionados who will look at this watch in their boutique and know the Seiko history will know the 6R movement is not up to scratch. I do like the aesthetics but I do wonder 'who is the watch targeted at and who is buying it?'
I have lived in Japan for 3 years; you get what you pay for in Japan. If it is $1,700, you will get $1700 values of the watch. The price will reflect the quality!
I don’t know if it’s just myself but the problem I have with Grand Seiko is I feel the brand doesn’t have an established identity unlike brands like Rolex or AP, or even just plain old Seiko. However, King Seiko is so noticeable from a mile away and I found wearing the KS much more enjoyable than wearing a GS even thought the GS has much more superior dials and movements. If the Grand Seiko put its beautiful dials and cutting edge movements in the King Seiko design language cases and bracelets I believe the Brand would be in similar regards to the upper Swiss brands.
Stunning watch - I love the case feel, fit and finish, the geometric chamfers of the case paired with the glimmer of the the finishes really is a unique combination. Theres lots of micro surfaces for this watch to catch light and put on a show. I'm not sure about the bracelet, I like the bracelet more than I thought I would however the lack of adjustability leaves me wondering if I would become frustrated with finding the perfect fit... Great video boss, I'm always a fan of how you combine real world conversation points with immaculate research. Cheers
Lovely looking timepiece. However, it's a shame that Seiko on a whole who once focused on time accuracy now seems to not care about the movement they put into their watches. Their dials and case designs are top notch but the movements........they take a watch that they know is a home run but don't make the extra refinements to make it a grand slam. I love Seiko, but they are fully capable of doing better.
I think people are being a bit too hard on the KS. Discounts are readily available on this watch, I got mine (in oxblood red) for 20% off MSRP, bringing the price (before tax) under $1400. For that you get a great case, great bracelet, incredible dial (with no date!) and an overall great watch. Would I have preferred an 8L movement instead of a 6R? Sure, and yeah I would have paid more for that, but not everyone else would. The LE King Seiko that came out last year with the 8L didn’t sell well and is being heavily discounted. Obviously there are limits to what non-Grand Seiko name can command, and I don’t knock them for wanting to make a profit. Mechanical watches are niche today, a luxury, unlike when KS first came out. The pricing reflects that reality
I have the SPB 291J (graduated purple dial) and it is a great watch. I don't categorize the 6R31 as a basic movement. Seiko dod not introduce this movement as a basic movement. The NH 35 is basic and used on so many watches, both Seiko and 3rd party brands. Anyway, the appearance of this watch just catches your eye so nicely. I think the bracelet is superior to any of the Presage bracelets and even some of the GS. It has become apparent to me in watching the many reviews of this watch, one is either turned off by it because of the movement, which is a pity, or it is loved. I'm figuring the lovers of the watch are definite winners since this watch (all styles) is off the shelves in extraordinary amounts. It is a beautiful watch and will remain a big seller for sriko.
I think you are right with your conclusion! It's marketing driven not Japanese craftmanship and love for detail. Old KS watches are such great value and are part of the ancient proper Seiko philosophy with stunning dials and high quality calibers. Buy an old KS and enjoy proper Japanese watchmaking. Cheers Pym
I own both 1st Gen (1961) & 2nd Gen (1966) King Seikos, To my eye and heart, they look so much better than the new release from a couple of years ago and the most recent.
From what I understand higher beat movements found in GS and limited Seiko runs are handmade and would bump the cost up considerably. Then people would be complaining as to why they should pay $3.5k for a king seiko. If it works fine and is reliable who cares, how many of you sit there and watch how fast the second hand moves after a week with the watch?
I really wanted to KS but to put that movement in there for that price is such a let down. I have had such a hit and miss experience with a lot of Seikos with a 6XXX movement that I now actively avoid any but it's so annoying that they have them in almost all of the ones I wanted :(
It's funny you mention the 4 cylinder Accord engine in the NSX, because the 3.5L 250hp V6 was also an Accord engine. You see the 7s26 and it's successor that's in the King Seiko, are that robust V6 accord engine that can be tuned to push out the performance you want out of it. This is something that people generally overlook, as I see that you have; considering how typically the 7s26 movement should be taken to be calibrated once and then have maintenance performed every 2-3 years (maybe even less so). Seiko chose that movement to be placed in the King Seiko line up because that movement has proven its worth and efficacy over the years. It allows the wearer to no need to worry about maintenance, nor have the costs and the nuisance of needed to send the watch back to Japan to have it serviced. Grand Seiko is opulence and innovation, it embodies the characteristics of something that is neither modest nor traditional and does so with flying colors. In contrast to King Seiko, in accordance to it's name would need to embody modesty and traditionalism, and that is precisely what this watch showcases.
Thanks for making this informative vid. I have a suggestion. How about a Credor all steel vs GS? I hear that the craftsmanship between brands would be more comparable over the King. Credors not available here in Canada
Ha, I knew that Omeganut would make it to shadow crew member status ever since I joined WatchCrunch a few months ago...^^ In terms of the KS: you nailed it when you said that you were only being so harsh because you want it to succeed. That's exactly how I feel about it. Such a lovely range that could blossom from this, but, man: either make it 500 bucks cheaper or put an appropriate movement inside...
Great video and I totally agree with your views on the ks. I also own the 415 and just wondered if you get similar accuracy. In the first 100 days I owned it it only gained 3 seconds 🤯, and have you any recommendations for a strap option?
Luckily now we have KS with the 6L movement! but at $3300 how does that movement compare with other swiss like longines master colleciton or a tudor, sinn
Really happy they brought back King seiko but not happy with where they put it within their line up. It’s definitely below the presage and prospex line.
Really like the watch/size and bracelet. Heck I even like the mouvement, and I’m happy to see a 6r time only. But the price?! For a 6r movement.. c’mon.
Very thought-provoking review. So now I'll just go think. I'd like to know more about the 7S26 derivative. I'm thinking that most newer movements are derivatives (or improvements) of pre-existing technology? Hmmmm....
I agree that Seiko should improve on the 6R movement. I have the 6R35 in my Capt. Willard and it loses something like 15seconds per day. King Seiko deserves better.
As usual Max, a very savvy take on this. A Grand Seiko is a a watch of watchmakers, this King Seiko is a bean counter's watch, pitched into a price point and "Hey what movement have we got we can put in this thing?" Disappointing. The King Seiko name deserves better. Seiko already has Presage.
Great video and very good “Seikos”, both Great options, specially GS… that i love Please review Seiko LX 300m, for me, a GS that oficially it si not, and for me the best Seiko - GS Diver, a true professional diver but with the best finishing
Strange strategy for King Seiko, to compete with their own Presage line. I would’ve expected it to be put below the Grand Seiko line but above Presage and Prospex lines, in the 3,000-4,000 (dollar, Euro, pound) range. But for that to happen it’d need a much better movement.
Seiko Corporation is all over the market place, now, more than ever. Trying to expand ever upwards, with GS and more recently, KS while not giving an inch of space in the low end market. One obvious problem with this is the overlap at the high end Seiko's with the GS movements living in the same price ranges as the GS's. Now, the intermittent King Seiko? Trying to be too many things to too many people for my taste.
@@WatchCrunchOfficial oh yes yes I know, i think I worded my initial comment weirdly lol.. That analogy just flipped the switch on my inner Honda fanboy. Anyways, great video! King Seiko's comeback is looking good.
It is a super cool design though, no? I think the design and finish of face/case/bracelet is very good. Not much dress/sports out there on a bracelet to compare. But surely a bit more expensive, using the 6L movement would have been the way to go. Seiko's ranges are getting messy: Prospex from $250 to $6k? Eh? KS floated in somewhere in the upper-mid of Presage? Err? Would have made more sense to have 'Marinemaster' (RIP) above Prospex and KS above Presage - these could have targeted Longines and Tudor. But not with 6R...
Maybe too sporty compared to the original but a beautiful watch nonetheless. That being said, all in house and beautiful doesn't justify the price. The release looks more like a cash grab rather than a love letter to King Seiko with the subpar movement and many other cons like the pin and collar bracelet with no adjustment. Seiko sells beautiful watches with 6R movements for a third of the price so what are you paying a premium for? The King Seiko print and the case shape? This is a beautiful watch that is too expensive for what it is just like the 62MAS and Willard reissues. Hopefully, these models will be here to stay and improved versions in the future will justify the prices because I want them all in my collection.
Seems my biggest issue is large wrists. 40mm is about as small as i will go. My wrist is close to 9". My 40mm watches look small. And how my vision is at this age if the date wndogets any smaller may as well not have one.
They've made the King Seiko almost indistinguishable from an entry-level Seiko 5. What kind of confused brand-heritage could a consumer learn from this?
Wtf you talking abt, look at the price point different. You aspect the KS price point to match GS. At the start you’re side towards GS what is the point doing a unfair review, there’s no VS, you should change the title to Grill King SEIKO. Sick guy sick review
Max! Your video came out too late today! Already finished my 2 watch mods earlier this afternoon. Since I couldn’t put your vid on loop, I’m only going to watch it 3 times now instead of the usual 50 times during modding 😉👍😁
@@WatchCrunchOfficial You’re killing it with WatchCrunch, Max. I doubt your analytics even notices my views. Nevertheless, to be safe, I will continue to keep your vids on loop. 👍
There is no excuse for the lack of micro-adjustment in this price class. I would only consider one of these on a leather strap. I am not a fan of those bracelets.
GS is the real "King". With the Spring Drive, textured dials, higher level of finishing, Industrial Design and stories tied to the Japanese seasons. The King Seiko doesn't really differentiate itself from any other Seiko IMO
Major letdown in my opinion. That movement in combination with King Seiko in a watch at this price… you can get some chronometer graded or unofficially chronometer graded hi beat movements at this price point, I find it an insult to the consumer to be frank.
Since you asked .. Both are missed. 'Grand A Seiko is a just an expensive Seiko' - Nico watch guy I got 1 Seiko Diver + Presarge and ended Seiko journey
Join the discussion at WatchCrunch: www.watchcrunch.com/Max/posts/king-seiko-vs-grand-seiko-9217
If King Seiko is supposed to be positioned just below Grand Seiko and above Presage, it really does deserve a chronometer grade hi beat movement; how on earth can they justify it otherwise?
I think this shows what types of people are running Seiko, or at least this division of Seiko. They have little idea what they are doing (besides "do a reissue to keep up with market trends, and put a cheap movement inside it because it'll cut costs"), and they clearly don't understand the significance of their own King Seiko movement history.
Until Seiko cares enough to make a change by either putting a new upgraded movement or the existing 6l movement in their $1000 to $2000 priced watches, every review of these watches no matter how good the rest of the watch might be will always have a "but" in it.
I would imagine they are aware of this..
I think they can justify it with finishing that competes with Grand Seiko and is on par with Rolex for a fraction of the cost, stop partaking in the spiritually bankrupt economics of atomic time keeping and enjoy your watches for their beauty on the wrist
I'd take a 8L35 for a couple hundreds more. Or leave the 6R31 but drop below 1500$ just like Prospex are mostly priced around 1000-1300$. This is a Ferrari with a 3-cylinder in it...
@@MasterSam85 I get what you’re saying but technically this is an amazing looking piece at a decent price for what you’re getting, watch geeks are always complaining about one thing, if it had a date window I’d be complaining about that, I’m just happy a manufacturer made a beautiful piece at a conservative size that looks amazing, there are other options if timekeeping is that important to you, Longines probably do some uninspiringly finished pieces that are cosc for similar prices
I really like the king Seiko but they really dropped the ball with the movement. Kinda ironic to put such a boring movement in that case.
Boring movement and boring design. There's really nothing here to write home about.
what s wrong with rhis movement. It does the job. It is not comparable to a car motor. For example a Ferrari V12 is really special and makes a big difference. Personally I don't see the différence
I love Seiko/GS, so it really bothers me to see them drop the ball like this. King Seiko deserves a quality movement;by not providing one, Seiko’s denigrating it’s own history, while trying to sell these models off the Story. I see it as being somewhat of a letdown for Seiko fans, what with all the positives the watch has to offer. This strategy does little to instill confidence in the market outside the Seiko-sphere, thereby losing an opportunity to compete w/other brands in this category.
Thanks for the great review!
Well said John! Not a good way to get outta the gate with KS
I bought this KS because it has an improved 7s26 ... Time keeping is excellent. I don't know why people are complaining. No date.. 37mm. Beautiful one-watch collection.. I love it.. if you prefer a 6L movement, the price would be doubled🙄.. then people will complain about the price !
The movement is nonconsistent and lottery to get decent one. It's no date version of 6r35 which is really bad. In My spb149 it was constantly doing +15s/day and for no reason it decided to go to - 11s/day over 2 weeks period. Look up the reviews of watches with this movement and you see the non existent accurracy is all over the place. Get longines for the price.
@@Adam-eh4fq I bought it 2 months ago. I paid $1500.. the tolerance is -2 minutes per month which is not bad at all. It is better than my speedmaster which I sold 2 years ago. I tried Longines Spirit. The KS looks and wears superior even though I have 7.5" wrist. but again it is a personal taste.
Maaaan I’m so addicted to GS videos right now! I’m still just learning everything about Seiko, GS and King Seiko! Thank you so much for this. So informative… as always! Great video ! ❤️✨
Thanks Gringa! they just keep releasing new watches 🤣
GS all the way!
Lucy really converted you with Cherry didn’t she! 😂
The Grand Seiko here is the first and only high end watch I've ever purchased. Nice to see it shown off a bit here, I feel like the winter gets overlooked by the Snowflake but it's my favorite of the seasons.
I wanted to buy a king seiko so bad but as soon as i heard about the movement i bought the alpinist reinterpretation with the green dial for less than half the price of the king seiko.
Hope they will continue the king-series with a better movement.
UPDATE: Bought a vintage King Seiko 5626. One of the best watches i ever purchased. Finishing is out of this world and it keeps time at +1sec per day. That's insane for a 50 year old watch.
Me too I almost commited suicide😂 ...seriously stop being so snob. The movement works and does not makes a big difference
Definitely a miss for the KS. The KS deserves a true hi beat movement and 50+ hours of power reserve.
Honestly, most people care more about the looks and wearability. As long as the movement provides a few plus or minus seconds per day it should be fine. I have a SARB033 that has a 6R15 movement and I only have to adjust the time once a week because it gains almost two minutes a week. That doesn’t bother me because I like it better because of its looks. As long as the movement is reliable and consistent I don’t really care much.
True. Movement is overrated. As long as the time is within the same minute, it's fine with me.
Epic levels of honesty in this review. New sub here!
The King Seiko has an average movement for the price..
I was disappointed ☹️
As a proud owner of a KS 45-7000, couldn't agree more. A 36k hi-beat would be very welcome; or at least something more befitting the history (even though the 44 didn't beat as fast).
I honestly think Seiko's _previous_ tribute is more compelling: the SCVN001, which pays more direct homage to the 52KS line (which also happens to look a lot more like my 45). This tribute is both external _and_ internal with a 4S15 that was directly derived from the 52 series.
Nah a 4hz automatic would be nice at this price point. I mean the hamilton khaki field auto has similar specs at almost a grand less. The Ball Fireman enterprise has a swiss movement with great shock resistance with a 4hz movement, but it does lack in the power reserve department (but its 700 dollars less). So yeah they could've at least offered a 4hz movement with a decent power reserve at this price point for sure.
@WatchCrunch Great video..I would rather have the vintage KS 1974 56KS a better movement and price!
The King Seiko movement is indeed an insult. Longines gets much better time keeping at about $1,800-$2,200 with modern movements.
As for the rest, a key issue is the quality of the finishing. Is KS all machine finished?
This line might have a place in the Seiko lineup, but I'm not sure it has much of a place in many collections, unless they are Seiko-only collections.
I think I could forgive everything else about this watch if they has used a 6L35 movement instead of the 6R35. At least then it'd be 4hz and a lot thinner.
Seen them in the steel, they are gorgeous and finishing is excellent, but the movement...not at that price. They should have used the 6L!
@@ctimonen Thanks for your firsthand account.
With some Seiko's already more expensive than the low-end Grand Seiko's, is this not something that will only confuse the market for anyone who isn't a watch nerd.
I can’t wait to see all the great things in the future for King Seiko.👍
Loving the honestly and direct approach. Keep up the good work.
Cheers Adam 👍
Let’s all hope that Seiko puts a 6LXX or 4SXX movement in the next iteration of the King Seiko. Those two movements are worthy of the KS badge.
I agree about it being designed by accountants rather than enthusiasts. Thanks for the video!
That wear on your King Seiko clasp shows you clearly love to wear this beautiful watch. I can't wait to try one one for myself.
The bracelet is great!
Both are beautiful watches. Kinda can't go wrong either way.
Lovely all cap font on King Seiko especially the K. Great video Max!
Such cool font, ruined by the "automatic" 😅
Yes the movement is disappointing but I tried one and damn do these look great
It's really not even close. GS is just far and away a better watch, better craftsmanship, better movement, better everything. Even with the massive price difference, it is 100% worth it
Yeah definitely too many faults with the KS, let's see how they improve the next one 🤔
It sounds cynical, but maybe that was the point - to make the GS look more worth it. But I don't see it that way. I just see the KS as a miss.
I just wish they would list the dial color on the website. The sunburst is very subtle and hard to see when you're not in person
Awesome review! Spot on comparison with the Honda NSX. I’m excited with this new KS and also wish them to succeed. The looks, size, and heritage are fantastic, making it a must have if you are, like me, a 6.5 inch wrist Seiko fan. Fingers crossed Seiko will upgrade its movement! 🍀✨
If there were no names or branding on the dial, I would honestly go for the King Seiko over the GS. Why then did Seiko not put a King grade movement in the watch?
Sometimes its like Seiko handicap themselves, giving other brands a helping hand!
Great video. Thanks for sharing.
I thought you were going to say Omeganut insisted you show a photo of his luminous dinosaurs. It's a fantastic looking watch that King Seiko, the price was a bit more than I thought but what do I know about Seiko. Great one again Max, keep them coming.
Haha, he really wanted his poopy dog in there 🤦♂️. Thanks Morgan 😁
Thank you Buster for making this review happen
Cheers bud 🍻
What is most confusing about this is the fact this watch is for watch nerds. Most consumers who are just looking for a nice watch around this price point will choose a Tag, Longines, Tudor or even Oris. You can only find these in GS boutiques and these won't reach your average consumer. The watch officionados who will look at this watch in their boutique and know the Seiko history will know the 6R movement is not up to scratch. I do like the aesthetics but I do wonder 'who is the watch targeted at and who is buying it?'
Great point! An enthusiast model destroyed by accountants
I have lived in Japan for 3 years; you get what you pay for in Japan. If it is $1,700, you will get $1700 values of the watch. The price will reflect the quality!
Some great (and appropriate) criticisms.
I don’t know if it’s just myself but the problem I have with Grand Seiko is I feel the brand doesn’t have an established identity unlike brands like Rolex or AP, or even just plain old Seiko. However, King Seiko is so noticeable from a mile away and I found wearing the KS much more enjoyable than wearing a GS even thought the GS has much more superior dials and movements. If the Grand Seiko put its beautiful dials and cutting edge movements in the King Seiko design language cases and bracelets I believe the Brand would be in similar regards to the upper Swiss brands.
Stunning watch - I love the case feel, fit and finish, the geometric chamfers of the case paired with the glimmer of the the finishes really is a unique combination. Theres lots of micro surfaces for this watch to catch light and put on a show. I'm not sure about the bracelet, I like the bracelet more than I thought I would however the lack of adjustability leaves me wondering if I would become frustrated with finding the perfect fit... Great video boss, I'm always a fan of how you combine real world conversation points with immaculate research.
Cheers
Geometric is the operative word! Thanks bud, you are a stylish man 😉👍
Seiko is releasing a couple of new Presage watches with gorgeous Arita porcelain dials for $1700. (same as King Seiko). Just a thought.
They should've priced this at 2300 with a 6L me thinks
Lovely looking timepiece. However, it's a shame that Seiko on a whole who once focused on time accuracy now seems to not care about the movement they put into their watches. Their dials and case designs are top notch but the movements........they take a watch that they know is a home run but don't make the extra refinements to make it a grand slam. I love Seiko, but they are fully capable of doing better.
Well said, a major oversight!
yeah, the movement is a let down...so is their mid-end 6R35
I think people are being a bit too hard on the KS. Discounts are readily available on this watch, I got mine (in oxblood red) for 20% off MSRP, bringing the price (before tax) under $1400. For that you get a great case, great bracelet, incredible dial (with no date!) and an overall great watch. Would I have preferred an 8L movement instead of a 6R? Sure, and yeah I would have paid more for that, but not everyone else would. The LE King Seiko that came out last year with the 8L didn’t sell well and is being heavily discounted. Obviously there are limits to what non-Grand Seiko name can command, and I don’t knock them for wanting to make a profit. Mechanical watches are niche today, a luxury, unlike when KS first came out. The pricing reflects that reality
This was a great video thank you!
You got it Chris!
Enjoyed your video. You were tough but fair. Most of all you were honest.
Thanks John 👍
I have the SPB 291J (graduated purple dial) and it is a great watch. I don't categorize the 6R31 as a basic movement. Seiko dod not introduce this movement as a basic movement. The NH 35 is basic and used on so many watches, both Seiko and 3rd party brands. Anyway, the appearance of this watch just catches your eye so nicely. I think the bracelet is superior to any of the Presage bracelets and even some of the GS. It has become apparent to me in watching the many reviews of this watch, one is either turned off by it because of the movement, which is a pity, or it is loved. I'm figuring the lovers of the watch are definite winners since this watch (all styles) is off the shelves in extraordinary amounts. It is a beautiful watch and will remain a big seller for sriko.
Jip, I agree with you....it needs an upgrade in the movement department.......but it is a nice looking piece .....
I think you are right with your conclusion! It's marketing driven not Japanese craftmanship and love for detail. Old KS watches are such great value and are part of the ancient proper Seiko philosophy with stunning dials and high quality calibers. Buy an old KS and enjoy proper Japanese watchmaking. Cheers Pym
With the SJE095 it looks like they are improving on this line hopefully more will come for this line
I own both 1st Gen (1961) & 2nd Gen (1966) King Seikos,
To my eye and heart, they look so much better than the new release from a couple of years ago and the most recent.
From what I understand higher beat movements found in GS and limited Seiko runs are handmade and would bump the cost up considerably. Then people would be complaining as to why they should pay $3.5k for a king seiko. If it works fine and is reliable who cares, how many of you sit there and watch how fast the second hand moves after a week with the watch?
I really wanted to KS but to put that movement in there for that price is such a let down. I have had such a hit and miss experience with a lot of Seikos with a 6XXX movement that I now actively avoid any but it's so annoying that they have them in almost all of the ones I wanted :(
It's funny you mention the 4 cylinder Accord engine in the NSX, because the 3.5L 250hp V6 was also an Accord engine. You see the 7s26 and it's successor that's in the King Seiko, are that robust V6 accord engine that can be tuned to push out the performance you want out of it. This is something that people generally overlook, as I see that you have; considering how typically the 7s26 movement should be taken to be calibrated once and then have maintenance performed every 2-3 years (maybe even less so). Seiko chose that movement to be placed in the King Seiko line up because that movement has proven its worth and efficacy over the years. It allows the wearer to no need to worry about maintenance, nor have the costs and the nuisance of needed to send the watch back to Japan to have it serviced. Grand Seiko is opulence and innovation, it embodies the characteristics of something that is neither modest nor traditional and does so with flying colors. In contrast to King Seiko, in accordance to it's name would need to embody modesty and traditionalism, and that is precisely what this watch showcases.
Clean, clear thoughts, pleasantly formulated … 👍🏻
Cheers 🍻
Thanks for making this informative vid. I have a suggestion. How about a Credor all steel vs GS? I hear that the craftsmanship between brands would be more comparable over the King. Credors not available here in Canada
Ha, I knew that Omeganut would make it to shadow crew member status ever since I joined WatchCrunch a few months ago...^^
In terms of the KS: you nailed it when you said that you were only being so harsh because you want it to succeed. That's exactly how I feel about it. Such a lovely range that could blossom from this, but, man: either make it 500 bucks cheaper or put an appropriate movement inside...
You are hardest on the child with the most potential 🙏
This is a Prince Seiko. Surely ain't a King yet.
😆
Great video and I totally agree with your views on the ks. I also own the 415 and just wondered if you get similar accuracy. In the first 100 days I owned it it only gained 3 seconds 🤯, and have you any recommendations for a strap option?
Yes! Delugs ostrich is grey 👌
I think the word "automatic" is unnecessary on all watches. Nice video Max!
Yeah I blocked it with my finger and it was so much better 😆
Is there a watch crunch mobile app? Would be sweet if so
Luckily now we have KS with the 6L movement! but at $3300 how does that movement compare with other swiss like longines master colleciton or a tudor, sinn
Really happy they brought back King seiko but not happy with where they put it within their line up. It’s definitely below the presage and prospex line.
Really like the watch/size and bracelet. Heck I even like the mouvement, and I’m happy to see a 6r time only. But the price?! For a 6r movement.. c’mon.
Great looking watch, but why would you pay $1,700 for a 6R movement when you can still get a SARB for $500-600 second hand?
Very thought-provoking review. So now I'll just go think. I'd like to know more about the 7S26 derivative. I'm thinking that most newer movements are derivatives (or improvements) of pre-existing technology? Hmmmm....
Yeah but it's still got the old escapement/balance structure. If they changed that, it'd be a new movement
Spot on. The KS should have been relaunched with a 4S movement to do the subbrand justice.
I'll even settle for a 6L
I agree that Seiko should improve on the 6R movement. I have the 6R35 in my Capt. Willard and it loses something like 15seconds per day. King Seiko deserves better.
I have spb149 and for the money it's really low quality. Seiko is no longer value for money brand. Now it's money grab brand.
As usual Max, a very savvy take on this. A Grand Seiko is a a watch of watchmakers, this King Seiko is a bean counter's watch, pitched into a price point and "Hey what movement have we got we can put in this thing?" Disappointing. The King Seiko name deserves better. Seiko already has Presage.
Completely agree Chris 👍
Great video and very good “Seikos”, both Great options, specially GS… that i love
Please review Seiko LX 300m, for me, a GS that oficially it si not, and for me the best Seiko - GS Diver, a true professional diver but with the best finishing
Still no micro adjustments!!
Why!!!
I sold my GS because I got aggravated with it.
Dude, seriously!!!
The red dial KS is hard to resist
King Seiko vs Alpinist 1959? What do you guys think?
Love that one! Bund gang
This King Seiko is awesome.
Strange strategy for King Seiko, to compete with their own Presage line. I would’ve expected it to be put below the Grand Seiko line but above Presage and Prospex lines, in the 3,000-4,000 (dollar, Euro, pound) range. But for that to happen it’d need a much better movement.
A bit harsh maybe, but essentially completely correct!
Haha, thanks Andrew 😆
That was a fine review.
Seiko Corporation is all over the market place, now, more than ever. Trying to expand ever upwards, with GS and more recently, KS while not giving an inch of space in the low end market. One obvious problem with this is the overlap at the high end Seiko's with the GS movements living in the same price ranges as the GS's. Now, the intermittent King Seiko? Trying to be too many things to too many people for my taste.
very good review and nothing but the truth. king seiko is overpriced. movement is everything and finishes are the icing on a cake.
Hohoho.. And a few years later, that accord motor (K24A) is now one of the most sought after four cylinder motor, favored by motorsports enthusiast ✌️
Back then accords used the F series motors. Different decade bro
@@WatchCrunchOfficial oh yes yes I know, i think I worded my initial comment weirdly lol.. That analogy just flipped the switch on my inner Honda fanboy. Anyways, great video! King Seiko's comeback is looking good.
Very informative video, thank you
Thanks Jeff 👍
Just a bit more money gives you a GS quartz in 37mm.
Simply better in every way except the bracelet.
It is a super cool design though, no? I think the design and finish of face/case/bracelet is very good. Not much dress/sports out there on a bracelet to compare. But surely a bit more expensive, using the 6L movement would have been the way to go. Seiko's ranges are getting messy: Prospex from $250 to $6k? Eh? KS floated in somewhere in the upper-mid of Presage? Err? Would have made more sense to have 'Marinemaster' (RIP) above Prospex and KS above Presage - these could have targeted Longines and Tudor. But not with 6R...
Haha yeah they are so confused. Every line overlaps. Driving my OCD crazy 😂
Is Spring Drive a greater tech achievement than the manned moon missions? Only exaggerating a little ...
Pretty close 😆
Maybe too sporty compared to the original but a beautiful watch nonetheless. That being said, all in house and beautiful doesn't justify the price. The release looks more like a cash grab rather than a love letter to King Seiko with the subpar movement and many other cons like the pin and collar bracelet with no adjustment. Seiko sells beautiful watches with 6R movements for a third of the price so what are you paying a premium for? The King Seiko print and the case shape? This is a beautiful watch that is too expensive for what it is just like the 62MAS and Willard reissues. Hopefully, these models will be here to stay and improved versions in the future will justify the prices because I want them all in my collection.
Good points, though I do love some of the Willards reissues 👍
Seems my biggest issue is large wrists. 40mm is about as small as i will go. My wrist is close to 9". My 40mm watches look small. And how my vision is at this age if the date wndogets any smaller may as well not have one.
I really wanted the new KS because of its history and (admitted) its looks until indeed.. that movement.
Sad, maybe next time 😞
come at the king and you best not miss. Definitely missed with that movement.
Giá bao nhiêu tiền 1 cái vậy anh.
They've made the King Seiko almost indistinguishable from an entry-level Seiko 5. What kind of confused brand-heritage could a consumer learn from this?
Wtf you talking abt, look at the price point different. You aspect the KS price point to match GS. At the start you’re side towards GS what is the point doing a unfair review, there’s no VS, you should change the title to Grill King SEIKO.
Sick guy sick review
Go home... You are drunk 😆
Either put in a better movement and keep the name King Seiko, or reduce the price to around $1k and just call it Seiko.
Agreed 👌
Max! Your video came out too late today! Already finished my 2 watch mods earlier this afternoon. Since I couldn’t put your vid on loop, I’m only going to watch it 3 times now instead of the usual 50 times during modding 😉👍😁
You're killing my analytics Cecil, will coordinate better next time 🤣
@@WatchCrunchOfficial You’re killing it with WatchCrunch, Max. I doubt your analytics even notices my views. Nevertheless, to be safe, I will continue to keep your vids on loop. 👍
The King looks more appealing and fine, for me.
to 30k! love this
Let's go Linus ☝️
Seiko needs to bring back the L series movements and throw them into the KS series.
Totally agree on what you said
👌
I really wish they didn't put two Seiko logos on the dial. Keep it original with just King Seiko at the 12 o'clock
Actually original 44ks this is based on had king Seiko at 6. You may be referring to the J14102
There is no excuse for the lack of micro-adjustment in this price class. I would only consider one of these on a leather strap. I am not a fan of those bracelets.
I'd buy a King Seiko if they used the GS 9F movement.
No I don't think you were harsh considering that price.
Thanks, I couldn't help but give honest feedback 😞
GS is the real "King". With the Spring Drive, textured dials, higher level of finishing, Industrial Design and stories tied to the Japanese seasons. The King Seiko doesn't really differentiate itself from any other Seiko IMO
Exactly👌
01:57 I do not understand why japanese Watch brands alway use european coats of arms.
Major letdown in my opinion. That movement in combination with King Seiko in a watch at this price… you can get some chronometer graded or unofficially chronometer graded hi beat movements at this price point, I find it an insult to the consumer to be frank.
Agreed!
Seiko 5 movement aye, for $1700...that's unfortunate!
You might want to wait for the next release of this KS.
They better get it right on the next one!
Since you asked
.. Both are missed.
'Grand A Seiko is a just an expensive Seiko' - Nico watch guy
I got 1 Seiko Diver + Presarge and ended Seiko journey
If Nico says so 🤣
@@WatchCrunchOfficial - joking ya :)
Liked it before watching the video 🤣
😆👌