James Sunderland Analysis | Silent Hill 2
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- Опубліковано 19 вер 2024
- In this video I try to breakdown the individual scenes of James Sunderland in Silent Hill 2 and the role he plays in the plot. The goal of the video is to use the given game footage to dissect who James truly is.
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James is one of the most sympathetic individuals I’ve ever seen in fiction. He’s done some messes up stuff, yet despite that, you can’t help but feel some sort of empathy for what he’s going through, depression and denial for the loss of his wife has made him continue down a downward spiral, it’s only there where he fully grasp the entire situation.
Totally, especially if we’ve lost someone we loved as well. As I told another guy, I lost the love of my life soon before playing this game for the first time. I kinda saw myself on James and her on Mary. This game helped me go through the worst part of it.
@@melkor0626 Your comment gave me chills….reason being I commented something similar on the SH2 re trailer about how I just lost the love of my life and that I relate to James as a character in a lot of ways especially when I look back on SH2 (original) which I played years ago….
I hope they are able to portray that in the remake.
I’m so sorry to hear that. I so glad you were able to use this game as a way to process that grief! This really is a deep game with amazing themes. It’s helped me understand myself after a divorce too.
The only two possible canon endings are rebirth and dog.
I honestly think the "Leave" ending fits it the most. The whole game, James goes through the stages of grief/death, and it's at the tail end of the game that he finally hits his "acceptance", which is nicely capped off by said ending, where he's not only able to finally accept what happened, but also accept the last wish Mary had for him (to live his life and the wish to take care of Laura).
"In Water", while a fantastically bleak ending, I feel dips more back into stage one, "denial" and, as he commits suicide not because it would free him or give him closure, but because he feels it would let him be with Mary... which, we all know is a lie, due to Silent Hill (as an entity) clearly pointing out even if he did die, he'd end up in a very different place rather than where Mary is. Succumbing to his guilt, he dies head-first into his denial, unable to move on in the end.
i think so too
but i guess it's not a popular opinion in the Silent Hill 2 Fandom...🤷♂
@@calliope3123 Mostly because they're so in love with downer endings, at least I think so.
@The Manifold James and Mary is like a Game version of Romeo a Juliet
@@1Synnerhonestly i like the “leave”ending because its not as depressing and it has a nice message. However “in water” makes the most sense to me. Why would Laura leave with James if..
1. She didn’t like James to begin with 2. He killed someone she really cared about.
He’s been looking for Mary and the world itself told him that if he wants to see Mary, he should just die. And lastly it fits the tone.
@@FBombs59 Well, for the sake of argument:
1. Mary had told Laura to give James a chance, and considering Laura seems close enough to Mary that she'd want to keep that dying wish (whether she understands the concept of a dying wish or not).
2. James is the last and only connection Laura would ever have to Mary after her death. No matter what, I doubt she'd want to throw that away.
And, honestly (with the exception of the Dog ending), all of the endings fit the tone of the game. The tone is a sad, depressing tale about a very complicated man with very complicated feelings about his dying wife. I just prefer the Leave ending because it caps off the journey of his guilt and grief with acceptance and moving forward, carrying on Mary's memory without dwelling on the past and the shame. Not a happy ending, but a hopeful one.
My favorite character in all of fiction. A dude who's done some horrible things, but the story doesn't tell you how to feel about it. You can understand his actions or hate him for what he's done, and both sides are perfectly respectable.
You can uh… sympathize with his situation and hold him accountable at the same time. It doesn’t have to be black and white.
Thanks for stopping by!
Agree, I lost the love of my life soon before playing SH2 for the first time, that made me a lot more simpathetic towards James. I still hold him accountable for the murder of Mary, tho, as you said.
he hasn’t seen bojack horseman
I mean he had it rough but in the end he fucked up
@@melkor0626 At least James had a degree of concience
One of the games that will never stop being talked about. What a masterpiece.
The reason why Silent Hill 2 it became a classic is because eventually people began to see how unique, eerie, melancholic and authentic the game's atmosphere it really is, and took the time to enjoy its deeply thoughtful narrative and symbolism. To this day it’s by far one of, if not the most mature examination of grief, sexual trauma, suicide, and morality all combined. It’s an intelligent game that does not hold anyone’s hand and comes at the player with utmost confidence in itself. It’s fantastic stuff. The rest of the original 4 are great in their own right and have their own well written stories, but they don’t hold the same emotional weight to them. I think SH2’s maturity by comparison is something that a lot of people are drawn to. ☯️
another thing with the first eddie interaction is that james doesn't seem to acknowledge his environment at all. not the dead body, but also not reacting at all to eddies continuous retching. doesn't offer help, doesn't show disgust, literally just talking like this man isn't giving up breakfast lunch and dinner into the toilet. he just stands there and talks to him, which always struck me as so odd. the way he speaks also seems to be disconnected, like suddenly changing the topic multiple times and introducing himself at a pretty random time
Good job pointing that out! I definitely believe James was in a state of psychosis til the end of the game.
@@Callyxi thank you :]! but yea james definetly doesn't seem to be all there. I heard that he was actually suppose to have dissociative identity disorder somewhere, so I think james was always suppose to be understood as very mentally ill
Having lost someone to illness myself I can honestly say it’s not black and white. I watched my grandmother slowly pass away over a six month period. It was hell.
Was I angry with her? Hell no. She wouldn’t have picked that way. No one would. Was I angry? All the time. Between sorrow and rage over her slow and painful death those were basically the only things I felt.
I absolutely can sympathize with James. Intelligence goes right out the window when one is powerless against a slow demise. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.
The real hell is the powerless feeling, right? The feeling of watching a loved one slowly go away and being unable to do anything to stop it...
I know. I was in a similar situation.
Nah.
Had a similar experience with my own grandmother, though in my case the absolute mess she left me did negatively impact my perception of her. My grandma was a hoarder with crap floor to ceiling in a five bedroom house and she left debt and lied to me about things for years.
fax
24:27 and that’s another reason many of us relate to him. He’s no knight in shining armor as you said, nor an extremely handsome man, or a super muscular super soldier that fists his way out of trouble against zillions of monsters. He’s a normal guy, like most of us, and yes he’s done terrible things, but he’s still one of the best written and most relatable characters in the entirety of videogames.
You are right about that. I definitely meant to portray that in the video. It's what makes James well James.
James at least tries to sent thing rights
I think he's more handsome then your average guy especially for his age, other then that 100%
It's a shame so many people really struggle to see the humanity in James' situation. The last two videos analyzing SH2 that have been recommended to me have basically just been dragging James without really tackling the nuance of his ending - his motivations weren't solely his own selfishness but those are the ones that drive his guilt. James was in an unenviable position, watching as the love of his life slips away, who is also actively trying to push him away for fear of her own burden. Though the truth is, no one wants to die alone, and James seeks to keep his wife company in her dying days. It's tragic for both of them. Mary is hating herself and projecting it on to James, and James is fostering resentment over how his wife is treating him and there's also a great deal of internalized resentment towards himself too, for how he looks at the nurses now that his wife is no longer who he physically remembers. James made a mistake, certainly, but he's no monster.
James is a perfect anti-hero. A guy that we play as and relate with, when typically we are supposed to relate with the hero and not the villain. But James doesn't have many heroic qualities about him, then again, not many villainous traits either. Somewhere in between.
I like the ending where him and lura leave and Mary’s poem is being read in the background ❤
It's the ending I got
I quite liked James because he was real. He was just a man who had faults but a redeeming side. Everything he went through, no matter how bad it got, he really did it all for Mary. He wanted to atone for what he did but could never forgive himself unless he knew Mary would forgive him. He was no hero or villain, just a person who goes through loosing the woman he loved.
Every time I hear the name James, I think of this character.
James
Brown
I was so upset when my PS2 passed away in my arms and I couldn't play this game for the 20th time anymore.
I love SH video games where you literally play a story dealing with the human psyche.
How many SHs do you have for the ps2?
James is a real good protagonist and despite all that happened I found myself rooting for him.
James is a bad person. Realistically he should've just filed for a divorce regardless of the pain if things with Mary got that bad. But in a messed up way. I get why he did it too.
James says he loved Mary with everything he had and didn't want her to suffer. But then he says that he hated her too, because while he accepted she was dying, Mary didn't and it made him feel trapped. Unable to move on with his life.
When we see the tape, James kisses Mary before killing her. That tells me, that both of theses reasons are true.
The duality in his character is done beautifully. James is a wonderfully written man
I agree with that statement. You start the game sympathizing for him because he seems like a decent guy and I am sure he is. Yet when you undercover his actions by the end of it, you find out he is not who you thought he was.
Filing for a divorce would have been the same thing as leaving her to die. James was trapped taking care of someone who he once loved, secretly wishing for her to die and thinking that she would be free too if she did. Of course he loved her, he just hated the illness that had to destroy both of their lives. You can't abandon someone with a terminal illness like that, the reality that nobody wants to think about is that it's about waiting for the death of the person just to be free after a while. It's tragic and sh2 handled this theme greatly.
This is a hot take, but honestly I don’t think he was wrong for what he did. If anything I think putting her out of her misery would be the morally correct option, his options were A: stay with Mary until she dies, prolonging both of their suffering, B: leave Mary with no one to care about her, also prolonging her suffering and him having to bear the guilt, or C. Put her out of her suffering. Every day it got worse, and she CLEARLY didn’t want to be alive, it’s selfish to want to prolong that only because you don’t want to feel like a bad person, if I was in her shoes I’d want the same thing, Atleast let me go out while I’m still me
I don’t think divorce was an option. It’s not that he didn’t love his wife. Watching the person you love die is hard. I don’t think your comment of just leave takes that into consideration. We also don’t get his wife’s point of view either. She may have wanted to die. We live in a society where a person cannot choose this. The most you can opt for is a DNR do not resuscitate. That’s it or some really good drugs and going home to wait it out is a fairly recent option. Being a caretaker and breadwinner in this type of situation with a child is stressful. I hope we as a society really start taking a look at that. This way the caretaker has a place where they can get help. This trauma. James needed help too and the wife’s wishes should have been honored.
Maybe I'm weird, but in all my years of loving this game, I never viewed James as just a monster. I don't excuse his murdering of Mary, but there is no denying that this is a guy who persists in his journey in the unlikely hope just of seeing her again. He exhibits love for her throughout the whole story and excluding the Maria and Dog endings, he commits himself to her totally. He is violent, he is a devoted, he carries resent, he feels guilt, he is pulled by passion. These are the kinds of paradoxes that exist in people, though they are rarely displayed in such honesty in media. I think there is an honest case for James Sunderland being the most real character created in all of fiction.
"But I got a letter from her" James, you're a psycho
I mean his other 2 contacts weren't well either lol
Its confirmed that james came to silent hill with marys body. Which is in his car at the start. That suggests he knew he killed his wife and that he wanted to go to their special place and pretty much do the in water ending.
I'm not so sure its actual psychosis but rather the town and its influence as we find while hes looking in the mirror he loses his memories and he confuses the letter from marry as a message from her telling him to come to silent hill thus giving him reasonable doubt why he originally came.
we know its the letter mary recites at the end so I'm not a big fan of chalking this up to a symptom of disease its more nuanced then that... he self rightously killed mary to end her pain and her spirit at the end forgave him for it.
Its more of amnesia and the town's influence causing him to be forgetful and delusional
When you say its psychosis its you giving the spiritual nature the heart of the story the town itself a material reasoning when that is not whats happening
the point is that when you visit the town your guilt and spiritual energy causes the town to reflect that. When you say its psychosis your dismissing the power of silent hill. A lot of it is mental trauma which can be the most powerful type of spiritual energy which is why silent hill is forcing him to confront his past as that is what was most powerful in his consciousness.
You can call him selfish sure because it was selfish but delusional and suffering psychosis I have to disagree... Eddy and angela is proof that the town's energy is real because we see their other world influence on James, if it was simple psychosis their demons and energy would not manifest in the way it did especially because james didnt know about angelas past... yet we see the sexual abuse represented in the room where she confronts her father.
how would he be able to know about angelas past without actually hearing and witnessing it? To create hallucinations of it so accurately is impossible... its because these arent hallucinations they are real manifestations on the world and thus we can conclude that silent hill has powerful energy enough to change even your memories and perception down to the physical space of the world itself.
The same happens with Maria
When Maria try to kill herself (in the ending of Born From A Wish) is like if the town makes her don't kill herself and keep going on, with her purpose.
@The Manifold yes I agree its a combo of trauma and the energy of the town but what i am arguing is its not one or the other like the video suggest
Also i totally agree with you on the in water ending I mever saw it as depressing especially looking at it in japanese terms suicide os viewed very differently there but its more then suicide
Its very cathartic in a way I love how vague everything is but after seeing like every fungo lore stream there is so much detail that there is enough evidence to piece together exactly how everything works and silent hill isnt just some place where delusional people go its a hotbed for spiritual energy that was corrupted after the land was taken from the indians especially when the cult moved in and after all the death an sickness of the civil era I really think people miss out on how accurate the illusions bleed into eachother later in the game with eddie and Angela and their other world bleeding into james world you cant chalk that up to just plain delusion thats more supernatural thats similar to 2 people tripping on hallucinogens and seeing the same thing even though their different its this weird anachronism
@20:54 james: "I brought you some flowers"
Also james: *casually walking with a shotgun on both hands
Underrated comment
Did you hear what Sara said? Did you hear what she wanted?
''I really don't care''
Saying that nobody should have sympathy for James doesn’t make any sense.
There are characters far more abhorrent than him that get showered by sympathy by the audience.
This seems like a really simplified and stark look at a nuanced character and situation.
Masahiro Ito has described Mary as verbally abusive, so attempting to lessen the blow of abuse by saying she was justified because she was sick is kind of gross. She wasn't trying to do some noble thing by pushing James away, she was using him as a punching bag by her own admission in the end.
My goal at that point in the video was regardless of her state it was wrong of James to do what he did.
@@Callyxi Yes, it was wrong for James to do what he did. The common theme of James, Eddie and Angela is that they were all pushed to the brink and lashed out at those who hurt them. Try to play the game with this in mind and you'll find James's motivations are a lot simpler than it seems. There are several sentences by Mary and Maria which confirm this, so did Guy Cihi, the actor, and Ito's tweets which have debunked the perverted sexual frustration angle and proposed that the twitching lips in the game's monsters are sugestive of verbal abuse. Also, SH2's greatest Stephen King inspiration was Pet Semmatary, a book where a character named Rachel had to take care of a terminally ill, verbally abusive sister and was afraid to announce her death to her family because they knew she hated her and would think she strangled her.
@@robbie_o_coelhoito be lying shut up bruh
man i really appreciate your work you deserve big support but we are your biggest supporters do not let let the small number of your fans stop you doing that amazing work we love you bro
Thank you for the support!
I was a little taken aback at 20:26 when it stated that no one should sympathize with James. I disagree with this statement, and I feel that with this black and white view you miss a huge point of the game.
While I understand feeling sympathy for James going through what he did with Mary, I personally did not sympathize with him after learning what he did. He took another person's life through frustration. It was not through self-defense or to protect anyone else.
@@Callyxi You didn't. That does does not mean no one else shouldn't either.
@@Callyxi the reason why he did that is unclear, at first he says it was a mercy kill and later states it was out of anger, but then Mary states that he was sad while doing it, so we can't be sure.
@@Callyxithat's because you never had to take care of ill relatives for years, especially his wife, both of them knowing full well there is no recovery from that illness. It's not even about watching someone you love losing all ability to do anything themselves, after a time it all becomes a burden that you have to do and know it will only get better once the person you loved is dead. During that time intrusive thoughts always come into your mind about wishing that person was dead, and your brain tries to rationalize that by thinking it would be freedom for the ill person as well. The only difference between James and us is that he acted on those thoughts meanwhile most of us wouldn't dare do anything like that, but just wait for the inevitable. Yeah what he did was wrong but there is also no other option than death in those kinda degenerative illnesses, seeing the person in pain every single day doesn't give you any optimism for the future. All you high and mighty people don't think about any of that when it comes to putting dogs to sleep for the same exact thing though. Empathy goes a long way.
@@mrdabrowit's all of those feelings, it is true that something like this is not black and white; he tried to rationalize what he did as an act of mercy, so that mary would be free of pain and suffering for the rest of her life, but he was also frustrated and upset at the world for causing this illness to his wife, he wanted to be free himself. He was definitely sad to do it, that is 100% for sure.
God i feel so fucking bad for all these characters man its nuts
Really cool video, I just subbed! I've really been getting back into Silent Hill lately, so this is just wonderful.
one correction all Mammals do that not only people
espacilly mice have been watched to help other mice in captivity even if they dont get any profit out of it
cows cats and dogs are also very common and well documented examples
Love the SH videos you upload.
Thanks for always checking them out. Did you any ideas for future ones?
Damn man.. the way you ended this video was powerful.
The reason why Silent Hill 2 it became a classic is because eventually people began to see how unique, eerie, melancholic and authentic the game's atmosphere it really is, and took the time to enjoy its deeply thoughtful narrative and symbolism. To this day it’s by far one of, if not the most mature examination of grief, sexual trauma, suicide, and morality all combined. It’s an intelligent game that does not hold anyone’s hand and comes at the player with utmost confidence in itself. It’s fantastic stuff. The rest of the original 4 are great in their own right and have their own well written stories, but they don’t hold the same emotional weight to them. I think SH2’s maturity by comparison is something that a lot of people are drawn to. ☯️
James is considered handsome??? Thats a first
better looking then me atleast
One of the 1st 1000 subscriber ! Just waiting for the remake to come out your gonna blow up forsure
Work in progress but thanks for checking it out!
IT IS hot Like hell in here...
So James has Schizophrenia? I hope Konami remastered this masterpiece.
I personally wouldn't say he has schizophrenia but more so psychosis or a temporary state of delusion due to trauma.
You don't need to have schizophrenia to experience psychosis. It can be caused by stress , trauma, and can be a result of severe depression.
@@Callyxihonestly. Depersonalization, derealization sounds fitting to me.
junji ito needs to do a silent hill 2 manga adaptation
Very interesting video mate! nice one
We need a sh2 remake
You got your wish buddy
@@holyshiet787 true😂 it's just sad that we won't have guy chihi for the voice of James he truly made the character
5:36 after seeing a bunch of dead bodies and monsters I could already be used to it tbh
100% disagree with the "In Water" ending
I wonder if the upcoming remake will have multiple endings too... 🤔
It'd be great if it does!
We will have to see!
4:10.
But of course the porkchop would start to puke all over the place when im having lunch.
angela o. = Murderess and temptress. Punished by Silent Hill.
Amazing
Maria is the girl James cheated on Marie with and that's why Maria is being sexual and reminding him how similar she is too her and also making him do everything for her. I have a theory that James seen a girl that look just like Marie but Young and her name was Maria and Maria got James to kill Marie because he wanted the younger version of her
And that's why he can't deny her
5595
1:03 cope
The only two possible canon endings are rebirth and dog.
dog ending is the only canon ending