Hey thanks for being here! This video discusses some pretty serious topics, some of which may trigger sensitive discussions in the comments, so before heading down, just be aware of that. Please feel free to talk in the comments below and to offer alternative viewpoints about the game (that's a large part of what this particular video is about). I'm a small enough channel to control what goes on in my comments though, so any sign I see of unhealthy conversation which belittles, diminishes or discriminates will be instantly shut down. I work hard on my videos, so let's please keep being nice to everyone while you're at my place. Thanks!
This video is roughly 90 minutes of praise for Rocksteady's Arkham Asylum game and 90 minutes of tearing it back down again and making Rocksteady out to be insensitive for creating this horrible excuse for a Mental Health Care Facility. You act as if they invented this. Have you ever read "Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on a Serious Earth"? What about the Burton/Schumacher Batman movies? Arkham is SUPPOSED to be what those concerned with Mental Healthcare should wake up screaming about when they have work-related nightmares. It's the textbook example of WHAT NOT TO DO. That's the message here. Arkham is the WORST Asylum. Blackgate is the WORST prison. Gotham is the WORST and most crime-ridden city in the DC Universe and you can't swing a teenage sidekick without hitting three schizophrenics who've been off their meds since their escape. That is the POINT. Batman calls himself VENGEANCE. Batman is DESPERATION. He has sworn a vow to FIX his city so that other kids don't have to watch their parents murdered. But he swore this vow in a city where being a Joker Henchman looks like the 3rd most popular job right next to Crooked Cop and Petty Thug. Arkham is the Asylum that Batman has access to, and it's shitty. Wayne throws money at it like rain, but he just inadvertently pays for more creative and expensive abuse. Much in the same way that Marvel's Peter Parker rarely has enough money to pay his rent on time BECAUSE THAT'S PART OF HIS CHARACTER, Batman lives in ShittyTown, and can choose between MurderPrison and LunaticShithole. AND THAT'S THE POINT. Superman was drawn to bright, shiny, art-deco Metropolis and he's a good, bright, cheeful complement to that city. Batman and Arkham Asylum are what you get when you have a Gotham.
It’s a small thing, but I think ur criticizing a lil too harshly how effectively the game teaches player free flow combat. The game has an upgrade system based on choice and experience points, and I’m certain most players wouldn’t just spend their points on random crap without reading these things first. U could argue that many people would gloss over these details, but at the same time, there’s so many useful gadget upgrades/ just really cool and fun to use special moves that you’d need to look through them one at a time in order to determine which one u currently want to unlock. In almost all the arkham games (from what I remember), critical strikes and combo moves have always been upgrades u had to unlock, and said combo moves would always start with an 8-hit combo requirement before u can reduce it to 5. In other words, the game, through these upgrades, allows players to learn the certain intricacies of free flow combat one at a time. More specifically, critical strikes inadvertently teaches the rhythm of free-flow combat to players since they have to time their attacks in order to gain that boost, and the combo moves require players to first be seamless for 8 hits straight, which forces players to be more careful if they want to use these flashy yet useful finishers/throws; if you keep button mashing, it’s likely ur getting hit or missing hits and ruining ur combos, and thus (theoretically at least, can’t speak for everybody) the natural response would be to slow things down and be more careful, which is very easy adjustment to make since the game makes it pretty obvious how to recognize and react appropriately to incoming attacks
“Why is Killer Croc here? He has a physical disease not a mental one.” He also lives in the sewers, eats raw meat, and thinks he’s a crocodile pretty sure that qualifies him for Arkham, lmao.
@@smugalice6206they’re all insane. Insane doesn’t mean you fling 💩 at the wall and babble gibberish. Batman himself is insane. It’s not normal to do anything these people do
Wait hold up, people don’t like Asylum’s opening? I think it’s great. It’s far from slow and like you said it’s almost breakneck in pacing considering everything they’re throwing at you. They’re setting so much up in just a few minutes while also letting you build up that anticipation.
On replay it kinda sucks. Like on first playthrough, the walking and the environment is ment to show off what you will have to grow accustomed to in the future, as well as making you think "how is joker gonna get out of this one" which is later mimicked once it's Batman in the restrains.
In the Arkhamverse, hardly any of the Arkham patients are insane. A lot of them are psychopaths, i.e. mentally ill but still sane. It's a misconception that mental illness and insanity are synonymous. Joker, Zsasz, and Penguin are psychopaths/sociopaths, as in they are impulsively, remorselessly violent yet still lucid enough to fathom morality, consequences, and to stand trial. At best, Joker feigns insanity so he's not executed. Scarecrow's doctor explicitly said he's not insane, just "evil" (i.e. a psychopath.) Batman personally diagnoses Riddler with narcissism and severe obsessive compulsion, which, once again, are mental illnesses but not insanity. The only reason villains like Ivy, Freeze, Clayface, Bane, and Croc are held at Arkham is because their superhuman physiology requires specialized treatment. Furthermore, Arkham Origins retroactively establishes that most of Gotham's supervillains are simply transferred from Blackgate to Arkham due to its incompetence as a proper holding facility, not just Joker's goons. So for all intents and purposes, Arkham Asylum is a maximum security prison with a misleading name. Nothing more, nothing less. The only rogues who actually belong in Arkham are Harley and Two-Face, because they have psychosis/dissociation.
@@AGrayPhantom Like the guy above said, histrionic personality disorder is a good guess, given how she over-sexualizes herself for attention. However, if you want to emphasize her psychosis and dissociation seen in Arkham Knight (she hears the voice of "Harleen" in her head, which is both a psychotic hallucination and a dissociative identity), she'd have borderline personality disorder.
The story literally explains why croc is there. All Blackgate inmates were transferred to Arkham, the reason croc is in the sewers is because Arkham doesn't have the proper facilities to contain him. One of the riddles shows the first cell croc was in, the bars are broken and there is a skeletal corpse inside, showing that even in a cell he is a danger. So they modify the sewers, to make sure he can't escape and transfer him there during the opening of the game.
I can't fault Quincy for wanting Joker dead. Anyone with even the basic understanding of psychology knows that the Joker isn't insane. He's evil. He knows what he's doing is wrong, and he still does it because he likes causing harm to others. Joker isn't an agent of chaos. He's an agent of suffering.
Good and evil is a question for philosophy not psychology. Joker exhibits signs of being a psychopath, one of which is like you said, he knows that he is causing suffering to others and doesn’t care/enjoys it.
@@Markustempest don't over-complicate things and bring philosophy into this. "psychopathy" as a diagnosis is at best colloquial. and there are plenty functional people in society who are seen by medical health professionals as exhibiting anti-social tendencies. but the Joker fucking murders people, dud. He's aware of his actions, and he enjoys it. i think that's a pretty cut and dry barometer for evil.
@@doe-dw9lo psychopathy, sociopathy, narcissism, and other "dark personality" diagnoses are now beginning to be viewed as instances on a spectrum, much like autism. Regardless, the joker not only shows a total disregard for human life, but a pathological need to cause terror while also being fixated on batman throughout his criminal career. His constant call for batman's attention is compulsory, and he creates his acts of terrorism around what Batman would think, to tie them together even further. This would drive any psychologist to make a determination that he is clinically insane. If the batman ceased to exist, there is a good chance joker might kill himself, as he sees no purpose in disturbing the world without batman.
I don't think I agree with all of this. Just because Batman doesn't stop and say "torturing mentally ill people is bad" doesn't mean the game is somehow normalizing or glorifying it. If it is, then is Outlast? If anything I saw this as a cautionary tale. And most of the people Batman fights are Blackgate thugs, not mentally ill people. Even when he does come across the the actual patients he ko's them quickly. Also, Joker isn't a revolutionary. Even in the Joker movie he doesn't care to change the system. He's a product of the terrible system in place, but it won't bother him if it changes or not. Like at the end when he's arrested and looking at the rioting, he's laughing as says it's "beautiful".
My guy is going on about how Joker is a revolutionist that shines a light on corruption, to prove that society is the true monster. The Arkham Joker once replaced Holy Water with sulfuric acid at a Baptism and also murdered a class of children just to lure Robin out, in order to torture him for months. Arkham Joker might be the most evil incarnation of The Joker, making this video so damn unintentionally funny.
While I appreciate the thoughts and sentiments regarding mental illness, in this context, with Batman and his rouges who have no issue with being evil, empathizing with them is a bold choice. The comments about Joker especially are odd because viewing this version as this anti-capitalist revolutionist when he's a psychopathic narcissist who would kill doctors, patients, police, and his crew for his ego. In reality, that's someone who I call evil if he existed in real life, and in that reality, it's the same thing.
Joker doesn't want a revolution. This Joker is the same exact Joker that's in Arkham Knight, where we get to see EXACTLY what would happen if Asylum had played out the way he wanted. Gotham on fire. Everyone dead in the streets. Police unable to handle it. All of Batman's foes brutally murdered by Joker's forces. And Joker laughing the entire time, because that's what Joker wants. He's not crazy, you're right. But he's not a revolutionary either. He's just a sadist who wants everyone to suffer and likes it when what he does causes turmoil, chaos, and pain, whether what he's doing will lead to something positive or not. Eventually, he'll corrupt that positivity anyway when it bores him.
@@PeachBoi_RealI am so glad that this game is getting discussed so much later down the pipeline of when it was released, but I am equally exhausted watching people who this is obviously their only exposure to these characters and this world word salad their way into some of the most (pardon the pun) batshit takes I've ever seen. Anybody with a brain and at least one decent Batman comic under their belt knows that he's not a role model, that he frequently makes bad choices and is never portrayed in any context as infallible, just smart enough to outwit everyone around him and physically able to endure the consequences of his insane self-destructive actions. Calling him a "mega cop" or a political argument in favor of the police force misses the mark so fucking hard its not even funny. Did we forget Battinson? The Dark Knight? Killing Joke? Even the Fox Gotham show which was the most seemingly copaganda-coded piece of Batman media to ever release still portrayed every cop OTHER than Gordon as a slimy scumbag who deserved death or worse because of being in every mob boss and human trafficker's pocket. Half the plotlines of that show were about how much the police force sucks, how a random street-level thug became a supervillain to PROVE how bad the cops were, and then Gordon had to FIGHT the cops to get them put away properly and half the time that didn't even fucking work. Batman is a rich spoiled kid's ANSWER to a shitty police force that failed and his whole story is about how bad of an answer that is and how there are other better alternatives that he refuses to partake in due to his obsession. The more I watch this guy, and his videos on the Arkham games, the more I am convinced he knows absolutely nothing about Batman.
Did you actually play the game ? what you see in arkham knight is not what would happen if joker succeeded in asylum but if batman turned into the joker how else would he have a batmobile and why would the villains be surprised when he,s trying to kill them second he,s discussing this game without including the sequels or what happens after arkham asylum he says that in the VIDEO so next time watch or pay attention to the video before you write a dum essay like this
@mgood365 The intent behind Jokers actions, as a consistent character across all three games, doesn't change with what Battech equipment becomes available to him. Whether he's a giant Titan monster stomping through Gotham or driving the Bat tank it still ends the same way, and it's not a revolution for the opressed
@@DrFrankenMax Remember he,s judging the game without including the sequels and how they characterize him and like he said in the VIDEO the game does imply in some instances he is fighting for the oppressed ( as dum as that sounds) so it,s the games fault for implying something as stupid as that and I don't fault him for coming to this conclusion
Yeah the minute that second segment started I began to feel irritated. The whole point of the Arkham Chronicles for example is to show that the good intention of helping the ill went astray and became something malevolent. The whole point of the Asylum is that it became corrupt due to people like Sharp and Arkham himself as well as the city neglecting those who need help. The opposition that happens in the game being a natural consequence to all this abuse of power and Batman suffering and almost going mad in this non rehabilitating Asylum. Batman doesn’t like to beat the mentally ill lmao. He has to fight the ones that pose a threat due to the tragic nature that the Asylum is as a whole. If it weren’t as corrupt (another example being the black gate prisoners) the events of the game wouldn’t have happened. He had to prevent the prison outbreak to keep the rest of Gotham safe from a very faulty institution that was made that way due to a lot of political corruption. Overall I can’t really carry on through the rest of the video due to the gross implications.
@@frostreaper2311 dude said “If you suffer from a serious psychological disorder, this is what the game thinks of you, and this is what Batman thinks you deserve.” while sad violin music plays and shows a lunatic rocking back and forth.
@@frostreaper2311 I’ve never seen a video go to shit that harshly, though him basically saying “Batman should’ve been punching mentally ill women of color” was an omen.
I agree with alot of what you're saying but for me the Batman franchise focusing so much on psychology made me more aware of mental health issues as a young person and made the villians more sympathetic then the usual comic book affair. Batman is also clearly a character suffering from mental illness and the whole idea of Batman and his rouges gallery to me at least is about how trauma shapes you. The best Batman stories are ones where these themes are explored which is why he's the best Superhero imo and why he has such a strong and sympathetic rouges gallery. I do agree though that the backgrounds of these characters and why they are like this should be explored in a more sympatheic way and that Batman as a franchise should be at the forefront of this kind of thought process.
@@WhenDevilsDuel then you don't think "exactly this", they didn't say he "missed the entire point of the series as a whole somehow lol" (a bit redundant also), in fact micah worked off of it because of the way the writing is either avoiding or negligent to the "entire point of the series as a whole"
I think its a hard sell to tell me Killer Croc is only acting out for how he is being treat at Arkham. Its true he isn't there for a mental condition but is kept there due to how physically secure the old building is.
Interestingly Arkham Batman can object to inhumane treatment: in fact he does in Knight's Beneath the Surface DLC mission when he finds out the Warden of Iron Heights was experimenting on Killer Croc. He also interferes when Crane tries to gas people in the tapes the 2nd time within Asylum too. It's likely he just doesn't stop and reflect on what the Arkham staff are exactly doing or worse, selectively ignores it except when it's particularly heinous, even if in reality it's just a product of Rocksteady just wanting to not dwell on the uncomfortable implications of Bats being a megacop
Sorta? The warden of Iron Heights is placed in a cell with the men he abused. It's implied this is his punishment, that he deserves whatever harm is about to be brought upon him. Waylon himself is placed in an inappropriately tiny cell and gassed with drugs to keep him complacent. Mind you there was an active invasion occurring in Gotham at the time, so these arrangements are largely a means of convenience, but there's little emotional reaction from Bruce to signify any motivation to actually help anyone at the end of the DLC. In fact, what happened to Waylon can largely be laid at Bruce's feet, and sure enough it's a return to that abusive status quo at the end of the DLC.
@@AGrayPhantom to be fair to Bruce and as you said there’s either an entire invasion at the doorstep or his secret is out and just needs to get the affairs in order for the single night the story canonically takes place within. As you said the cell is more for necessity and since it’s literally one night we can’t really say anything about it given the situation
@@AGrayPhantomBruce doesn’t really show his emotions outright most of the time, since he’s very stoic. But you can tell he’s angry when he catches the Warden, and accuses him of the horrific crimes committed against the inmates. I think he even calls him a monster to some extent
This is one of the darkest videos I’ve seen, and it being about my favourite video game ever is what makes it great. I love this game to death, the grindhouse horror aspect, the gothic architecture, the simplistic and straight forward story with a massive and in-depth lore that can be chosen to be explored, and my favourite interpretation of Batman, a hero who’s professional and gets the work done. Some of the stills and shots you’ve made are absolutely perfect showcases the horror and the beauty of Arkham Asylum. This is the best examination of this game, you should be proud of the work you’ve put in.
for me it's yet to be topped. the other games tried but never really managed it. Asylum came out of nowhere and blew everyone away. truly a once in a lifetime phenomenon.
@@zubairali5400 They probably assumed you didn't listen to the critiques of AA's portrayal of mental health because you didn't mention that in the comment and it's a big part of the video.
I don't think the game is blind to the fact that Arkham Asylum is a terrible place that abuses its inmates, and that Batman is a part of this system. These are definitely things on its mind, if you pay attention. The Amadeus Arkham tapes show that the Asylum was founded on the idea of vigilante justice, and Batman is the natural extension of this idea, which links he and the Asylum in a dark way. Batman just refuses to kill which places him above the inmates and the warden. But Batman is not a moral paragon of compassion and never, ever was supposed to be. Batman is emotionless and cold because his only passion is punishing criminals, which is why even when conversing with civilians he has just saved, he is distant. A recurring line throughout the series is "If they're still alive, I'll find them" when Batman is informed of a hostage. It shows that he has assumed that they are already dead because he has been grappling with the death of innocents his entire life, it is his normal state of being, and something he has come to expect from Gotham, and thus he doesn't waste time shedding a tear. To quote Scarecrow, he is a "twisted shell of a man". And furthermore, the people he fights may be evil murderers, but they are just as sad and broken as he is. The Animated Series really emphasized this idea, and it makes the mythos all the more tragic and compelling. Batman is no saint, he's violent vengeance inflicted against those whom life has dealt a bad hand but who nonetheless pose a threat, and have let their pain drive them toward insanity, just like Batman, but to a more violent extreme. Scarecrow even tells him that he belongs here, and it's telling that Batman's ultimate nightmare is him becoming a resident of Arkham Asylum. Gotham is a terrible city where everyone suffers, Batman is just suffering aimed at those who deserve it more. Or, "fear turned against those who prey on the fearful." The game may not spell out "This is Wrong", which would be boring and pandering anyway, but the subtle bits of horror to be found in the Asylum serve to build the atmosphere and tension of how scary this place is. The horrifying torture devices scattered around the rooms, the raving inmates whom you later find out in Batman's files were driven mad by Strange's experiments. Similar to the Overlook Hotel in "The Shining" or other haunted settings such as in Poe's "The House of Usher", you get a vague and unsettling sense that this place is terrible and has been home to many horrors, the true scope of which is never revealed. There's nothing wrong with this approach. It's not a flaw. I think it's one of the game's ultimate strengths. It enhances the Arkham mythos and makes it infinitely engaging and expansive. The Asylum literally, thematically, and psychologically contains unfathomable depths. It's even written on the back of the game: "The Asylum holds many secrets...". That's just good storytelling, man.
Extraordinary. One of the most nuanced, challenging, engaging, creative videos I’ve ever watched. Beyond description. You should be proud, I can’t believe something like this is on UA-cam.
As the holder of the top comment on your old video on the Arkham series, let me just say that I cannot WAIT for you to make up for your past mistakes and FINALLY make a video where you talk about Batman Arkham Origins: Blackgate, for the Nintendo 3DS, for 5 hours.
Now THIS is what I wanted out of a 3.5 hour essay on a single video game. Not just rehashing the same praises and criticisms that we’ve been hearing for over a decade, but coming up with a completely unique (as far as I can tell) take on this subject. I never would have thought about the game in the same manner and depth as you did, and that’s exactly what’s great about this. Sub definitely earned.
I think what this video is made me realize is that I feel future games do actually address batman's actions here in asylum. He sees the actions of City and decides he's going to take a proper political approach to dismantle it only putting on the cowl when it's basically the only option he has. In Knight he's just riddled with self doubts about what it means to be The Batman, and ending the game by realizing he needs to leave and that gotham doesn't need someone like batman they need to rely on themselves for change. That's at least how I interpret it.
i dont quite think so since he basically turns into nightmare batman and that in itself is a resignation that your fight cannot be split into multiple paths and that he chose self sacrifice to continue overlooking gotham. But he also understood that Gotham politically cannot depend on the rich man for change and guidance hence he needs to let Gotham sink and be born anew. I mean Amadeus literally dedicated his entire life and fell into agony and became a monster.
The comic that this game is based off of examines the mental health of Batman and his rogues gallery pretty spot on. Harvey Dent is forced out of his comfort zone by his doctors. While the intentions might be for good, he suffers constantly. They take his coin and give him a die, then a pack of playing cards. He eventually loses all control, he urinates in his seat because he is so use to Yes or No. And at the end, Batman gives him his coin back. He uses the kindness he was shown to grow as a person. Lying for Batman and allowing his escape. It shows how Harvey sees his fellow inmates and Batman. Kindness goes a long way, even for the diagnosed insane. Sometimes a helping hand is necessary. So when people criticize the world of Batman, over his own treatment of his villains, is maddening. Batman is shown to be a great help to his villains who need it. He shows kindness and support for so many. Not just his fists. He strives to show genuine love towards those willing to change. It's far more nuanced than "He hits people because he cares."
At worst, he punches them because they are an active danger for people and the city AT THE MOMENT. Afterwards, he shows them compasion and tries to help them in any way he can. Like in Arkham Origins' DLC Cold Cold Heart. He started the DLC furious with Mr. Freeze, thinking he attacked Boyle, a person who helps the city. Or so he thinks at the begining. After learning about Mr. Freeze's tragic story and how much of an asshole Boyle really was, he tries to talk Victor down, offering him help to bring Boyle to proper justice. And after Freeze attacks him in rage and he bring him down, he saves him from Boyle and says this: "I'm sorry, Victor... I can't give you peace, but I can give you justice".
While I think this video is extremely well made, I think it also horribly misunderstands Batman and his mythos and a fundamental level. Saying Batman discriminates against the mentally ill just doesn't make sense considering in the comics and other media, he is *also* clearly suffers from mental illness. Like the famous quote "a guy who dresses up as a bat clearly has issues." Not to mention, Batman's distain for many of the super criminals of Arkham are not out of hatred of the criminally insane, but those who take advantage of the system to be labeled as criminally insane (like how Joker uses the insanity to dodge the death penalty). And While Arkham is obviously not a nice place, there are doctors who do care about genuinely troubled patients, doctors like Dr. Cassidy and Dr. Whistler. While the Warden is shown to be a horrible person and just kills many of his residents, Batman can't be said to have not cared, since in Arkham City, a sequel that was planned during Asylum's development, that he tries to shut down Arkham City and is obviously not pleased with him, hanging over a building. While Batman is cold, he does care, the entire reason he has his famous no kill rule, is because he believes everyone is capable of redemption. In the Killing Joke, a story that is referenced several times in the Arkham games including Asylum, Batman tried to level with Joker, asking him to let Batman help him, and Joker plainly declines. Batman isn't some megacop living out a power fantatsy, he just is trying to save lives during a massive breakout, which already took the lives of not only the guards and doctors that work at the asylum, but also of other Arkham patients who were trying to kill each other.
@@z-chan946 yes, I'm not going to pretend like I know what the writers were thinking when they crafted the story. But I find it highly unlikely that they read up on real-world medical diagnosis of fictional characters and prison laws of the mentally insane.
Every building has it's own ambient color, like if you pay enough attention you could see that batman's suit also changes colors depending on batman's surroundings, his cowl goes from dark blue to green and from green to dark brown, I think that was a very cool detail
Isn't Anarky the Anti Capitalist Villian? I find it hard to believe that Joker has any motivation other then pure chaos thats kind of the idea of his character. Putting a ideology on him is the antithesis of whats he's supposed to be as the Joker. There are more villians in Batman's rouges gallery who fit the theme of a villian showing societies ills i think. The game should have been more critical of the institution of Arkham Asylum though and it should have shown us a sympathetic view towards some of these inmates. Maybe have them cower in fear rather then attack like "crazy" people.
It’s always funny to me when people try to paint Joker as an actual anarchist. When describing his own goals, he only ever uses the word “anarchy” in the sense of chaos, mayhem, etc. He doesn’t refer to the actual political ideology. Like you said, he just wants to see shit hit the fan.
Yeah, that really just showed that the maker of this video has a certain view of capitalism that he pinned on Joker to make the game match his worldview.
Interesting point about the constant never going away tutorial button subtitles. I wonder if in the case of Asylum its because this was one of the last of those - "play it on the XBox at the local game store" games and so when the game is in different spots of the story as people walk up to it there still get prompts. Its not a good reason but just something I thought of
I don’t know, I remember playing one of those demos in a Walmart. All it let you play was the first combat challenge map, not anything from the game proper.
While I do agree that everything in this video is completely, utterly, undeniably valid, I must present the also undeniable fact that it’s a Batman video game with an intentional horror-esk aesthetic as well as components which exist for ease of gameplay and suspension of disbelief.
This is the best part about UA-cam. One day , just like any other, you're scrolling the recommended section. You come across an interesting thumbnail and a title that grabs you. You click, and are transported into yet another world. You find yet another creator (high sub count or low) to pour your time into - maybe too much time. Nice to meet you Micah.
I think you're missing the point a bit when you start explaining how misrepresenting the game is of mental institutions. No one ever said that Arkham Asylum is supposed to be a GOOD mental institution. It's a dark, twisted, fantasy imagining of one. It's the worst you could imagine. This is the world Batman lives in. It's not supposed to reflect the real world or real mental illness. And the world it paints is such an exaggerated one that I don't think anyone should feel they're led to believe otherwise. NO one is going to look at the "lunatics" in the game and go "yep, that's what mental illness is like", unless they're already grossly misguided and out of touch with the world. In fact, had they created a more nuanced depiction of mental illness, I think that would have muddled things even more. Keeping it more black and white makes the distinction of, "this is not real and it's not meant to be", more clear. You're meant to look at the game as a horror story, representing a world you would never ever want to live in. A story which, after it's over, makes you go "boy, am I glad I'm not living in that world. But at least they have the Batman to protect them." And the fantasy is that you get to BE that protector for a while. I'm not saying the game is by all means flawless and I do agree that the Batman ruthlessly beating up said "lunatics" is kind of questionable, at the very least in terms of Batman's character. In fact, I think the game would be enhanced if Batman actually acknowledged the lack of self-agency of those characters and incapacitated them in a less destructive way, like with a zip tie or knockout gas or something. That would actually be pretty cool. I also agree that making the Asylum itself a villain would have been an interesting prospect. That the Batman had blamed the incident directly on the institution not working. It would have been good to acknowledge the heinous acts of Warden Sharp more directly in the series, or how Bruce allowed him to become Mayor in the sequel (at least tell how and why he was unable to prevent it). Edit: I find your interpretation of the Joker in the game incredibly forced. You're actively choosing to see his actions as some kind of call for help or an attempt to call attention to the state of mental care in Gotham. And that's all fine I guess, if that's how you want to see it, but the game never implies the Joker's motivation to be anything more than to torment Batman/Gotham like he has countless times before. His actions are entirely selfish, to the point of discarding Harley, his debatable girlfriend, the minute she's of no use to him anymore. He shows complete disregard to the other inmates, as well. It's all about him and Batman. If anything, all he wants to call attention to, is himself. He's a narcissist, who needs Batman because he's the one who gives him full attention. His attention-seeking motivations are even reinforced by calling in the news to witness his final showdown with the Batman. He probably knows he's going to lose but he doesn't care because he got what he wanted.
"No one ever said that Arkham Asylum is supposed to be a GOOD mental institution." "This is the world Batman lives in." This is the actual complaint. Not that Arkham is depicted as abusive, but that the protagonist and superhero is complicit in that abuse. Arkham isn't presented as being good, but Batman is, and Batman both chooses to send his villains there, and does nothing to hold the criminals running the Asylum accountable. "And the world it paints is such an exaggerated one that I don't think anyone should feel they're led to believe otherwise" This is an issue of context. From our point of view now, with the hindsight of both more realistic Batman stories and even more realistic Arkham games, Asylum seems exaggerated by comparison. Cartoonish skeletons and the whatever the fuck the lunatics are supposed to be. But within the context of it's release, Arkham Asylum was extremely more realistic and serious when compared to it's contemporaries, especially when compared to it's contemporary Batman video games. Nolan's films are the only exception to this rule. "NO one is going to look at the "lunatics" in the game and go "yep, that's what mental illness is like"" Representation is just as much subliminal and implicit as it is explicit. The problem of the lunatics is that the player will never give them enough scrutiny to ever question them. I had no idea their eyelids were being held open, because I never paid enough attention to them to look at their character models that closely. The game provokes you into attacking them immediately by utilising jump scares and making their grab attack extremely annoying, making sure you never feel sympathy for them by making them mechanically inconvenient.
@@turbonerdo6838batman doesnt choose to send them there its the court who places them their Batman doesnt have a say in who does or doesn't get put there.
Arkham opened in 1921. If you want more information on the Asylum, I suggest you read Arkham Asylum: a Serious House on Serious Earth Anniversary Edition, the book which the game is based on. The reason I think you should get the Anniversary Edition is because it has the writers full script and notes of the graphic novel.
Damn, I'm glad I stuck with this video all the way through cause it gets so good when you get to Part II and delve into the mental health aspects of the game. I found it so intriguing to hear someone analyze since it WAS something on my mind when playing the game and all the mentally unwell people are men in peak physical health and age who want to kill Batman. I don't have unrealistic standards for a fun video game to get into the unsavory real world topics, but we have Batman share dialogue with officers and doctors, they could have fit in some inmates who are caught in the middle of this madness and put it into perspective that Batman is aware of it.
It’s explained in-story that the most of the people you fight are Joker goons brought in from Blackgate Prison. Now those lean lunatics, on the other hand...
The reason there were all kinds of wacky takedowns in stealth sections when Batman is usually all business isn't because Batman gets a kick out of it, it's because he relies heavily on theatrics and frightening the enemies. A ninja who can silently take you out at when you're not looking is one thing, but Batman can get you anywhere at any time. Nowhere is safe from Batman.
Exactly. What's more scary and make you want to shit your pants from fear? A guy who NEEDS to get behind you to take you down? Or the one that can go though walls, catch you from the vents, attack you from the ceilings, etc. without alerting anyone?
It's difficult to look at a project with this much talent, passion, and plainly evident hard work fall prey to such a basic vice at the end. The brutal conditions of the Asylum aren't a sweeping moral declaration that mentally ill people deserve to be made to suffer. Batman letting them lock up people who, out of lock and key, will kill others without hesitation... clearly isn't narrated as a part of his thirst for vengeance. The Asylum, for all its extreme faults, exists to protect and help its inhabitants as much as those they would murder. The fact that the people involved do not yet know a better way isn't some twisted moral vacancy content with a clearly dismal state of affairs. It's people trying to help and learning how to do it better as they go along. Because the known alternatives are far, far worse. I'll try to not read into the cold, sick feeling it puts into my stomach when I try to understand why you're prepared to project such extreme moral shortcomings onto a fairly undeserving canvas. But if you saw the attention to detail put into the suffering of the Arkham franchise's antagonists and didn't see the dark realities of institutional limitations both past and present used so deliberately to catch the audience's attention and only saw apathy... It's hard to imagine you simply weren't looking for an excuse to have a moral outrage about something.
You forgot (I think) that The Joker's lifegoal is not to be forgotten. Kind of like a catastrophic event that will be remembered through the ages. He wants to bring chaos to the city with the use of monsters so that everyone will come face to face with him. There is no alterior motif, there is no search for justice. He wants to be glorified one way or another.
My intepretation indicates that the Joker Figment in Arkham Knight is a vision of Bruce Wayne's greatest fears embodied as his perception of the Joker, so it's actually Batman who's afraid of being forgotten. Think that's pretty clearly what the game was playing into, metaphorically displaying Joker as a version of himself that Batman doesn't want to become, but Joker himself is already dead and isn't in Arkham Knight. Even so, if Joker did share the fear of obscurity, it still plays into the theory of the Asylum Joker acting out of a desire for empathy, something he wouldn't recieve if he was forgotten. So even if you're right, it actually plays in favour of a Joker who wants more awareness for the plight of the mentally ill quite strongly.
@@MicahEdmonds Interesting. I always thought that Batman's greatest fear was to become just like all the other criminals (namely The Joker in Arkham Knight's context). But you do have a point. Also, maybe I'm mistaken, but wasn't Arkham Asylum supposed to hold Joker's men only temporarily? Meaning that until another place was ready they would've stayed there, but that otherwise they wouldn't even be there. The distinction between Joker's army and the actual "guests" is pretty striking, so it's possible that the Asylum was only supposed to hold in people with a kind of insanity that would bring them to commit crime that isn't simply stealing or something, but actually murdering people (like the Joker Nygma, or those guys that scream all the time). It's pretty obvious that the way these people are treated is as insane as their own condition if not more so, but could it be that when Batman or the Police bring them to the Asylum they are already in that condition? I mean, it's not like Joker gets crazier every time he breaks out, same goes for all the other criminals. That would at least somewhat justify Batman's lack of reaction upon seeing these men the way that they're shown. Oh and another thing that I think should be stated is that Batman doesn't just go ham on the actual criminally insanes, he just Ko's them with one or two hits, unlike Joker's men who get repeatedly stomped on.
@@MicahEdmonds Joker doesn't want the issues of how the mentally ill are treated to be addressed, he wants revenge for the way society has treated him in particular. The Joker has always been depicted as someone who cares about only himself (and sometimes Batman due to seeing himself in him in some twisted way). That's why Joker's line about killing asylum inmates is there; because he doesn't give a shit about the mentally ill.
@@MicahEdmonds "My intepretation indicates that the Joker Figment in Arkham Knight is a vision of Bruce Wayne's greatest fears embodied as his perception of the Joker" The nature of the Joker hallucination, both diagetically and metaphorically, is very deliberately ambiguous. Bruce's fear of becoming corrupted by his own anger and violence, of killing making him no better than the criminal he fights, manifests as being afraid of becoming the Joker. And therefore, the fear toxin acts as a catalyst which accelerates the effects of Joker's blood, and magnifies the Joker personality which such blood carries. There is certainly a lot of Joker's dialogue which sounds like Bruce's own self hatred and self loathing being voiced by Joker, of him criticising himself of putting his friends in danger. Yet in the games finale, Joker is clearly represented as an agent independent from Bruce, who comes to power because of Bruce's fear, and becomes suppressed because of his own fears of Batman. I think there's too much evidence of Joker being an independent agent to argue that Joker is an entirely fabricated construct of Bruce's mind. When he laughs in Scarecrow's face and tells him to get ready for the encore, that isn't Bruce being afraid, that's Joker being liberated. My interpretation is that there is a struggle in Bruce's mind between his consciousness and the Joker's, and the more fear toxin he inhales the more agency and independence Joker gets. At the start of the game when you exit Ace Chemicals, Joker is almost entirely a product of Batman's mind. He voices Bruce's fears and insecurities. But I think the ambiguity of Joker's nature is to make the player feel the same way Batman does, not knowing what reality is, not knowing if he's a victim of manipulation or if this is all his own inner monologue. Both the Stagg airship and the movie studios hallucinations work under either the context of Joker being a devil on Bruce's shoulder manipulating him, or Bruce being self destructive and tempted and giving in at moments of emotional weakness. I think the ambiguity of Joker is what elevates these scenes to greater depth. "so it's actually Batman who's afraid of being forgotten" The entire game is under the dramatic irony of this being Batman's death, Scarecrow's goal is to destroy your legacy and legend. Bruce learning to let go of the Batman and sacrifice his legacy because it is no longer effective is a valid character arc. But the biggest objection I have to this analysis is that the Knightfall protocol is not something thought of after the games finale, but a protocol pre-planned before the game even ends. So Bruce has been willing to sacrifice Batman if his identity is ever threatened, which is to suggest that he does not learn about the pointlessness of legacy after he defeats the Joker, because he already planned to do this beforehand. Going back to Bruce being willing to sacrifice himself, I would point out that Bruce being afraid of his own personal safety is the direct result of the Joker hallucination, or the fears and insecurities such a hallucination represents. Bruce is entirely willing to sacrifice himself at ACE chemicals, and Joker is the one who emphasises self preservation. "After all, you're brooding for two now". This selfish desire manifests in the movie studios, where Bruce locks Robin because he views his personal freedom as more important than Robin's. So it could be seen that whilst Bruce prepared the Knightfall protocol earlier, that he wasn't entirely confident in it being necessary, and had reserved doubts about it's effectiveness, and merely hoped it would never need to be used. "but Joker himself is already dead and isn't in Arkham Knight." Whilst the metaphorical significance of Joker's dialogue being things that Bruce actually thinks is still very relevant to analysis, I think it's pretty disingenuous to ignore the exposition given during the Gordon flashback. The Joker blood is capable of manipulating the patients to the point that they display Joker like behaviour and tendencies. Joker may be dead, but if his blood is capable of a rough recreation of his consciousness in others bodies, then the Joker hallucination still functions like a copy of Joker from a character perspective, the same way a clone or a multiversal doppelganger does also. "if Joker did share the fear of obscurity, it still plays into the theory of the Asylum Joker acting out of a desire for empathy" As soon as you said Joker is someone looking for empathy in the video, I immediately thought of Joker's final scene in Knight. Being shoved into a cramped cell with scribbled writing, reaching out to Bruce and saying "No please, don't leave me. I need you." The vocal performance of Hamill carries a lot of pathos and tragedy in that plea, it is very clearly showing Joker's sadness and desperation and how Arkham isolates him. And I think it is very telling that Joker's greatest fear isn't Batman, it isn't being forgotten. It's Arkham Asylum. That's the thing he fears the most, the thing he wants Batman to save him from, the thing that Batman condemns him to.
This is a fantastic extensive critique and review of a game: possibly the best I’ve ever seen - full-stop. Great work! I personally enjoy the idea that Gotham is the ‘un-just city’ and that it is essentially pre-modern in its approach to mental health. Batman is at it’s most compelling when framed as a gothic-horror-noir.
2:46:09 What? First of all, Joker is literally responsible for the Titan experiments. I don't think his plan was to shed light on the suffering of Arkham patients, because he's the one that caused it. I mean, sure it's messed up that Dr. Young agreed to it and carried out the experiments but I don't think it was some grand 4D chess by Joker to show how corrupt Arkham was, he just wanted an army of titan mutants. Secondly, we DO see Joker's men fighting the Lunatics, when you enter Arkham North after leaving the Penitentiary when they're released. He only releases them to distract Batman, he clearly doesn't care about them and isn't trying to liberate them in some kind of crusade. They're annoyances to him and Joker ordering his men to kill them isn't bad writing.
Had a previous comment which I deleted upon further thought, so here’s what I’ll say. I did like the video and subscribe, you made a lot of really good points on the overall demonization of mental health and I appreciate sincerely you starting a conversation on how that needs to change. I even believe something should be said before interpretations of mental health that are not accurate are shown. However, in the context of this game and Batman as a character, Bruce Wayne on numerous occasions has attempted to reform Arkham through funding/political campaigns. Yes, it is a flaw of this game’s narrative to not address what he has seen, but a lot of the prisoners here are just transfers, not actual inmates. And as far as Batman’s reaction to the more animalistic inmates, they are attacking him, what else is he supposed to do? He has to defend himself as anyone would if being attacked. I am in no way dignifying or justifying the treatment of the mentally ill in this game by the characters, nor am I saying there isn’t a problem here narratively. But some of the ideas that you give here I feel are flawed. Joker does not care about the mentally at all in most interpretations. Yes, he is mentally ill. Yes his actions are because of this. But the overall goal of the Joker is to cause mayhem and play with Batman. Not to be a revolutionary. That is a more recent interpretation from one film. I love the points you make about the demonization of mentally ill patients and I do appreciate the conversation you’re trying to start. But in the universe of Batman, I feel there is some misunderstanding here. However, maybe new stories need to be started. Maybe more attention to the dramatization of mentally unstable patients in stories needs to be stated. Regardless, excellent work.
but that's what he's talking about. You're the one saying that's what Joker wants, the game is not; and on top of that the deliberate ambiguity and arguable lack of understanding of many of the topics touched upon makes the revolutionary angle on him a very valid take
I appreciate your analysis, but I find your comments about whether the game is "influential" or "great" a little baffling. Regarding whether it's "influential", you say "just because the game may have influenced titles after it doesn't mean it wasn't influenced itself," which seems like a complete non-sequitur. Most things that are influential also have influences; that's just kind of how culture and ideas work. You also seem to be trying to say (both at that point and much later in the video) that the game can't be called "influential" unless it reaches a particular standard of quality or "greatness", which doesn't actually have anything to do with how "influential" it is. I'm not sure why you're resistant to calling the game "influential" despite acknowledging that it "may have influenced titles after it," because that's the only thing that "influential" really means. Regarding calling the game "great", I think you're absolutely right that to say a game (or anything else) is "great" without qualification isn't really appropriate once you've observed these sorts of problems in it. But as you discussed in the beginning of the video, it has strengths and weaknesses, and I don't think that something with such extreme strengths and weaknesses necessarily averages out to "fine". I think it's perfectly reasonable to say "elements of this game are great, and elements of it are very bad," and not feel the need to sum that up in a single "rating" word like "fine" or "great."
@@smugalice6206think thats more because he thinks so highly of himself that he needs a cane to walk i mean there are number of statues and potraits of him and he also thinks himself "the voice of arkham" as also seen written on the posters
2:13:00 I’ve been liking this video so far, but I’ve got to point something out: the ninjas you fight in City and Knight are exclusively women, and in Origins, you fight Lady Shiva and Copperhead. Frankly, the take of “Batman didn’t punch enough mentally ill women” was not something I expected to hear. Edit: “Also, NO ONE here is physically disabled.” That’s just untrue. Aaron Cash has a hook after Killer Croc ate his hand, Warden Sharp uses a cane to walk, and even though she isn’t seen in-game, Barbara Gordon is shown to be in a wheelchair in her character bio art. Edit 2: “There is only one woman being treated at Arkham” That’s an outright lie. Along with Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn is an Arkham inmate. Christ, if you’re going to boil a cast down to their skin tones and genitals, at least be correct.
Cannot tell you how excited I am to see you back in the Arkham universe! I absolutely LOVE your videos, man! No joke, your Arkham Retrospective is one of, if not my all-time favorite video on UA-cam. You completely changed not only the way I look at video games, but the way I critique art as a whole. Your content found me at a time of immense maturity growing in my life, and I truly will never be able to thank you enough for your small hand is shaping my critical thinking skills, and my overall way of conducting both my speech and writing. "You've honored the reputation of Batman many times over, and for that I thank you." Thank you, Micah. Thank you for helping me be who I am today. Wishing you the best of everything to come, KR.
Your narrative analysis of asylum and Batman as a whole is amazing. It shows how much potential batman stories have, and how shallow most are in comparison.
The visuals on this are on a whole other level. The fact that this is 3 hours long but doesn't feel padded or rambly in the slightest speaks volume about the quality of the work. Very common for these multiple hour long videos to just be every inkling of a thought someone had over a subject, but this is clearly something you have been thinking about for a long time. The fact that you spend the time to give us other perspectives into this world, even divorced from Batman himself, especially on Section II, is nothing short of brilliant. The different angles, the - dare I say - cinematographic lense you apply to this video game world gives it life. The look you shine upon it when recording is something no one else is doing on the internet. Truly. Even a shot like the one at 1:46:54, that is so beautifully haunting. The sway of the clearly virtual branch over the very virtual statue brings out, somehow, the very real humans that made it. Just like the lunatics from the game, when looked upon with tenderness, and not brute, retributive justice, makes us that much more sad about the real humans, that ask for care, and we answer with cages. Should we feel good about being The Batman? About bringing The Justice to people who can't even comprehend what that is? Somehow, seeing the details of this virtual world, of this virtual depiction of the very real and very frail human mind makes it even more haunting, even more beautiful, even more pertinent, even more realistic. There are some shots in here that I'll carry forever in my mind. You've got a clear talent from this. From the bottom of my heart, THANK YOU, and please, if you feel like going on, I'd love to keep being a part of the audience. Thank you, and I hope you carry on making videos. You got a voice like none other in this platform.
this was such a profoundly insightful and moving video. it has to be one of the best things i've seen in a VERY long time the pacing, writing, visuals, music, and atmosphere were so on point and cinematic it was just unbelievable!!! incredible work, this video has left a really big impact on me, both as a fan of the arkham series and a person as a whole.
Hell yeah, this would have been a much better game if we walked up to psychopathic criminals and pressed X to empathize with them. Batman would sit down and have 1 on 1 therapy sessions on his way to group therapy with Joker and the rest of his rogue's gallery at the end. That would have been SO much more fun. It's also a shame that I now consider all mentally ill people deranged monsters because of how the patients in one asylum were depicted in a video game where a wealthy vigilante dresses up like a bat and goes into firefights with his fists.
Unfortunately, the ending just turned into unbearable bleeding heart hand-wringing. “I can’t recommend this game because it’s so problematic! I gotta calm down because I’m so upset!.” Sheesh.
They aren't saying that it needed to be utterly non violent but Batman could have shown Empathy, tried to punish Sharp etc. City even acknowledges this with him saving a city full of criminals at the end because they deserve it.
2:46:03 no I am sorry but god no, I was with you till this moment because this sounds absurd. Look I know you love The Joker film I do too but that version of the character and all that it stands for is not thr same as the one for the games or comics. Joker isnt written as a rebel with a cause but more so just a man taking his own personal hatred with the world and turning it on to humanity. I mean this guy is stated to have shot and crippled Batgirl and is now trying to make a mutant army. I doubt this brand of logic you are using fits this story or character. It also sounds kinda dumb when you remember that Joker payed Doc Young to make these monsters for him which would me he was fine with her using inmates as test subjects. Plus he also killed one of them without empathy.
I remember playing the game when it was released. After any action I was saying "I am Batman !" It's the first game that really gave me that feeling. The game aged and I never like Rocksteady's over guidance but it's still awesome imo.
31:38 Not Random, I think the slomo are only for special strikes or on the strike that will turn your combo bar ''Yellow'' so you know you have an special move available. But i guess it becomes a bit repetitive since with upgrades you can get a special move every 2 hits. However i use the slomos a lot to take a good look around and plan out the next moves
this video was so good. i've always felt slightly bad for enjoying the arkham series due to the treatment of the mental patients by both staff and batman himself. this videos talks so well about such a difficult topic. bravo to you, good creator!
2:12:26 would make sense if scarecrow didn’t exist. Sure the game has no people and only revolves around one man but the man in question dresses as a bat, beats up on thugs, and constantly thinks himself as belonging in this same hospital. Batman doesn’t think he’s deserving of being alive or without being incarcerated in the equivalent of hell. You assume the world building is fucked because it covers extreme comic book vibes with a serious undertone of mental illness left untreated. So why stop at the game and not any other book or video game??? Because it isn’t saying mental illness is horrible and should be eradicated but rather that it can be saved, that’s why Batman still saves thugs and villains. But the fault of Batman isn’t that he can’t kill or save them so much as it’s that he can’t save them from purgatory. He can only really save himself by sticking to the path. He’s also bound to let the law do its job in which case the people of Gotham are to blame. Batman spits on Quincy Sharps notion, maybe not audibly, but through actions he takes throughout the game. Batman has to face dark reflections and conquer them but the flaw of Batman is that he believes it to be a solo task. If you read the book Arkham Asylum a serious house on serious earth, it covers Batman basically enduring hell. in order to escape the hell he has to let people help him mainly Harvey dent. Harvey, who has been worked onto tarot cards instead of the coin, is given that coin back by Batman which threatens to undo the work set out by the doctors. But Harvey saves him by his own accord as it’s revealed that he didn’t obey the coin at all. Batman is also seen as an evil by the current warden in the book who describes how he simply sends them to a place, WHeRE THERE SUPPOSED to BE TREATED, as a bad thing despite Batman having to work around the clock at night to fucking protect Gotham. It’s much the same here where Batman is seemingly an annoyance to Sharp despite his being the “legacy bearer”. Hell after sharp is found out he begs Batman to do it. Now all this to say while it doesn’t tackle the people at the asylum very well or at all. To say that it’s somehow Batman’s fault for his power trip is a disservice to how terrible of a day this actually is for Batman. Because despite Batman being “ overpowered “ in combat and Stealth it actually isn’t the case given him being unable to save lots of people or even believing he can stop the joker. The world building is good, it might not be tasteful to you but this baffling depiction of its obscene and horrible take on mental illness as “ an evil” (which by the way doesn’t exist as a truth but a fallacy in the game). Is a disservice to the actual message that it gives.
I feel like Croc is really a doomed character. Guy has PTSD from a lifetime of dehumanizing abuse, pushed to cannibalism, and significant regeneration that only serves to dehumanize him further. Not to mention he is a 10'+ tall gator man. How do you treat that person? Ethically, what do you do for them?
That’s honestly a fair question. We even see in Arkham Knight that his condition has gotten worse, and due in large part to the continued exploitation of his mutation. Even when he’s locked up in GCPD again, there’s no closure, and he goes back to being a monster to be caged. Hell, Batman doesn’t say or do much to try and make things better. With that in mind, it’s important to remember that these games only occur in four nights, but some dialogue or tapes where Batman reflects on the asylum could have been good.
I've been watching this over a few days now and I think you did a good job talking about the topics you have brought up. But your interpretation on Joker as a revolutionary going against the corruption of the system is a misread I believe. He uses his henchmen as a tool to interact with Batman, not to give them any freedom or justice. Joker's motivations don't come from, in this game, from being wronged by the system but from his obsession with Batman. Also Arkham Asylum is used as a supermax prison with the window dressing of an insane asylem. And your points of Batmans beating on the mentally ill falls on their face for a majority of the characters present. Namely the aforementioned prisoners. This is because they are Blackgate prisoners and NOT mental patients. However the "lunatic" enemies are sorrowful to see. But what would you have anyone do when they are running towards you? Though I do agree with you looking into the injustice visible on the island and it is a glaring flaw that he never says anything nor does anything about it.
Wow man. Just wow. I normally don't watch videos this long about stuff I've already heard but with UA-cam premium I was able to listen to this whole thing at work and it's actually a brilliant video. Bravo mate honestly. You changed the way I see a game and really did end up spreading awareness as well. Great job 👍
So nobody else is gonna talk about that beautiful “Talkin’ ‘Bout Stealth” song at… the Stealth section? No? Just me? Alright, because it was fucking hilarious and I kinda want a full rendition now. Just. Perfect.
I have to say you kind of lost me around 2:05:00. I feel like this chunk of this section detracts from your overall analysis. You're trying to make this fictional superhero game fit into the real world. Nothing about this game fits into the real world. The batwing, the batmobile, batarangs, the crpytographic sequencer, titan formula, a caped crusader, supervillians,... none of this fits into the real world. Nothing about this game can be anaylized the way you're trying to do so here. You're trying to make them account for artistic license when without doing what they have done, you wouldn't have a game. I understand trying to grapple with the mental health issues at play here, that's actually quite admirable. Our understanding of mental health and the exploitation of mental health issues for shock value in media is abhorrent but, we cannot reasonably expect a perfect depiction of mental illness to be portrayed in a video and still have any sort of compelling story. The suspension of disbelief, the suspension of understood reality is necessary. In real life there is no superhero, no supervillian, no grand conspiracy, no rocket powered car that turns into a tank and fires only nonlethal rounds, no one can fly using a cape, falling into a vat of toxic waste doesn't turn you evil, your parents' death doesn't create a righteous anger, and there are no half man/half crocodiles. You have to be able to say "this is a game, it does not intend to make an statements on the realities of mental illness or the treatments thereof, it is merely a plot device to further you along in the game". Edit: Yeah man, this whole section just comes off as incredibly self-righteous. You're asking far too much of a video game. Practically speaking, your criticisms in this section cannot possibly be accommodated in a game of this type. I really think this whole section is just absolutely off the mark. I'm not saying what you've said is bad or unimportant, on the contrary, I agree with everything you've said. I know what you mean and I know that it is right. But for this context, it just screams of mansplaining and trying to retroactively apply more importance to the storyline of a video game than is justifiable. I really just get a sort of "white man's burden" vibe from the whole thing. "Let me, the educated white person 13 years in the future, tell you how to do your job and play your game". Your criticism of not seeing enough women and minorities in the game is valid. I will say that is something I have noticed on my playthroughs. That could've been pretty easily remedied. Edit 2: I don't like how now that we're trying to justify the acts of Waylon Jones and Scarecrow. This is not on point, bud. I think you assume that everyone who is in the asylum is actually medically insane and not legally culpable for their actions when, in the context of the batman universe, we see that Crane, Jones, Joker, Penguin, The Riddler,... they're not mentally ill, they're willfully evil. The only two characters who legitimately need treatment are Harley and Two-Face. Edit 3: Your psychological analysis of Batman is very pop psychology. You're making a lot of grand sweeping statements about the mental health and attitudes of characters and not providing anything to back it up. Edit 4: You just said that we have to view the game in the context of the it's own storyline and associated universe when you've spent the last 45 minutes try to apply an outside world view onto the game. Not rad. Edit 5: After saying you are trying to apply the world of the game to the game for interpretation you then use an entirely different piece of media that came out more than 10 years later to interpret the game. Edit 6: Nuance be damned? Bro, you can't say that after you've spent literally 2 and a half hours trying to convince us that nuance is the most important part of the interpretation. Edit 7: I'm going to give you a like on this video because, most of this video is quite good. I believe in the things you've said. It's good. However, I think your arguments are not really all that good. I think you're right but how you get there is flawed. You practice a poor pop psychology, bad philosophy, and very poor arguments. However, you did challenge my preconceived notions and you made me think. I appreciate that. This is, for the most part, a good video. Edit 8: 2:58:40 Whoa, whoa, whoa. You can't just say that without evidence. You can't make that accusation without actually showing that to be truth... which you have not done. That is a wild extrapolation. You can't justify that claim. What's with all the bad psychology dude? Edit 9: 3:02:00 Where is that said? As it seems to me, the only ones who said that in the game were villains. You're making a big fucking claim about the attitudes and motivations of the characters without actually having any real evidence to back that up buddy. Edit 10: 3:03:00 Matey you gotta stop. This is getting out of hand. I'm trying really hard to give you the benefit of the doubt but, your hot takes are somehow only getting worse the further along this video goes. Edit 11: 3:05:20 This is the first correct thing you've said in a while. You finally looked at it in the context of the game. It's literally just a shallow fighting game where you go through levels taking down baddies. We're not dealing with the Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner - it's fucking batman. This whole video is an exercise in shit pop psychology and bad philosophy. I spoke too soon when I said this was a good video. It could've been but, it's not.
What you talked about in edit 10 blew my mind when I first heard it. He must’ve been high on moral superiority when he wrote, said, and left that in during editing.
@@smugalice6206 I think his heart is in the right place for most of the video but in the last few segments it really just devolves into this nonsensical ranting about things that either have no context or are specifically taken out of context
@@emanuelcook5171 He’s definitely earnest, and if he makes a video on Arkham City like this, I’ll enjoy the first half of it. It’s just really disappointing that the second half of that video will probably compose of a Brit winging about the US prison system (ignoring how Arkham City was made with the purpose of killing criminals and political prisoners. If criminals die/are killed by others, that’s not a bug; it’s a feature). Maybe he’ll take offense on women’s behalf that hardened criminals say mean things to Catwoman. On a side note, one of the first things you hear from the inmates in Arkham City is “You’re gonna be my bitch, Wayne!” I do look forward to him trying to put a positive spin on “With the addition of assassins, Batman gets to punch women of color with bone crunching impact, an improvement on Asylum’s exclusively male enemies. I wish it happened more often, though.” That’ll be funny.
@@smugalice6206 I think the caricature of him being like "batman punching women of colour is good for intersectional feminism" is a little off the mark. That's a cheap laugh that has very little basis in reality. No one who can be taken seriously would ever say anything like that. While I agree that this guy is clearly trying to virtue signal and thump his own chest I also think that making silly claims like that just detracts from the credibility of anyone on this side. If we want to changes hearts and minds then you have to be able to rise above the pettiness. As for the US prison system, oh man, he would (very rightly) have a field day with that. However, again, you're right in saying that in the context of the game it makes sense and him making any sort of grand sweeping moral statements (like in this video) would not only be ridiculous but also immediately signal that this guy can't distinguish between the game and reality on some level.
@@emanuelcook5171 I admit that I am being *extremely* snarky about him celebrating punchable Asian women, but sometimes you’ve got to put stuff like that to make people question why they thought/said certain things. Questions I wish he asked himself as he wrote that in his script include: 1: “Why do I think Batman should have been punching (most likely) mentally ill women in this game (Asylum)?” 2: “How would that have improved the game?” 3: “Would opening that can of worms even be worth it from a developer’s perspective?” And most importantly: 4. “Why am I bringing this up?” I don’t write video essays, but I know a thing or two about writing; one of those is that while redrafting a persuasive essay, you often need to ask yourself why you want to include certain arguments, as well as think through them. I’ve said in a different comment that I left that if he replies, I’ll be perfectly civil to him (and that still stands), but in the meantime, I’m not going to pretend he didn’t drop the ball in certain areas like an atom bomb. I’m glad we agree on how laughable it’d be for him to get on a soapbox about how Arkham City is a reflection of irl issues. There are issues with the prison system in the US for damn sure, but a video about a video game with a zombie brute, ninjas, hypnotizing hats, a shapeshifting clay man, and more is NOT the right context to have that conversation. If he cares so deeply about that topic, then I encourage him to make a separate video about that. PS: I think I was crass but very honest in my caricature of Micah. From 2:13:00-2:14:00, he pointed out that: a) there are no regular female hostiles throughout this series, and b) there are no women of color in this game. By that logic (for better or worse), Micah would have to praise Arkham City for including women of color that are hostiles, but in order to stay consistent with his criticism, he’d have to criticize City for not having enough female hostiles. Combining all that into a statement, you get a gussied up version of: “With the addition of assassins, Batman gets to punch women of color with bone crunching impact, an improvement on Asylum’s exclusively male enemies. I wish it happened more often, though.” If I’m wrong in this train of logic, let me know how.
I think Dr. Young is mentioned only once after the events of Arkham Asylum. In Arkham City, Bane refers to her, once, by the title he's given to her-- "the bruja" --when explaining his motivation for gathering up the vats of TITAN located within Arkham City. He might mention her once or twice more, but I can't recall that off the top of my head.
3:08:56 With all due respect, at that point in this video, you’d been going on for about 50 minutes how absolutely insensitive this game is (and later you ultimately say you can’t recommend people play this game because of that insensitivity), so that’s a pretty huge inditement. I’d hardly call that fair, either. I’m not trying to dismiss your thoughts, but look at it this way: You don’t criticize an apple for not tasting like an orange. While you can do so and have a conversation/deeper look about why it doesn’t, at the end of the day, the apple is not an orange. Batman: Arkham Asylum is a video game focused on action and horror, at the end of the day. It never tried to give a PSA about mental health awareness. I realize there’s an endless loop of conversation over “X wasn’t trying to do Y” / “ah, but by not doing Y, what does that say about X?”, but my point is that I would’ve preferred going into the interview tapes instead of this take of “Joker wasn’t completely wrong in killing dozens of Arkham’s staff (and enjoying it) because they participate in the system that oppresses him.”
@@RuneAnimations22 To be fair, that isn’t a hard task. “If you suffer from a serious psychological disorder, this is what the game thinks of you, and this is what Batman thinks you deserve.” while sad violin music plays was a frankly, groan-inducingly awful line that I didn’t hear when I left my comment. If he replies, I’ll be polite and reasonable to him, but to put it bluntly: fuck off with that moralizing bullshit.
Thank you! I agreed with a lot of this guys points but it felt like the last half was him justifying the jokers uprising way too much and also putting way too many expectations on a brand new batman game made on a tight schedule by a semi inexperienced studio.
@@RainCloudVideos As I listened him, I was reminded of that one psychologist from Dark Knight Returns who also argued Joker was a victim. Joker ended up killing him and the entire late night show audience they were invited to. Joker takes sympathy shown to him and uses it to pull a gruesome prank because he’s a sick person. I completely agree that he expected too much social commentary out of this game. If he wants these topics explored, I’d recommend he read the comics (Batman: White Knight comes to mind).
This feels like a real place because of this video lol Like those old documentaries that get banned for 10 years then randomly released only after the institution has been shut down for malpractice.
Genuinely amazing and incredible video. We do truly need to reframe and reshape how we look and approach the handling of this property and how we approach discussions regarding this game series as a whole.
Wonder Tower was actually a highlight for me. In my most recent run, I realized early that vantage points were cheating me out of fun. The tower is great for using vents, sneaking around corners, etc., especially with Strange acting as a watchman. I do wish the game taught this on its own.
The throw gets reworked into a possible counter animation. In City and origins, the chance of doing this move is entirely random. In Knight, throw counter's occur after precise timing, making them mirror the function of critical strikes. This makes them a higher skill cap, but also means they're not tied to a limited resource. As long as you can execute the timing well, you can throw as much as possible, and don't have to sacrifice more mechanically relevant special moves.
I always noticed how messed up the guards and doctors treat the patients. I never really considered the fact that batman tolerates it. But I'm thinking back to jokers quote. "I just wanted you to drop this grim facade and for once see the world as I see it. Giggling in a corner and bleeding." Basing off what you presented joker wanted batman to see everything in the asylum. To let go of this belief that he stands for justice and just realize what is happening here. Also if your already tearing apart batman for not caring about the inmates at Arkham. I can only imagine what you say about batman not giving a fuck about jason and replacing him so soon.
"Not every game has to be political and have a huge message about mental health, abuse, and psychology" Not every game takes place in a mental Asylum. If you don't want to talk about it, pick a different setting. "it's just a comic book game tbh" The entire point of the Arkham series is that comic book games are capable of being art, of being greater than movie tie ins. You can't have your cake and eat it to. If you aspire to being a more serious piece of art, you invite more mature criticism of the world you create.
@@turbonerdo6838 yeah you are right about that but Arkham asylum isn't really an asylum it's more a max security prison and the only reason these characters like croc and others with physical conditions is because this is the highest security place they can go, it's nothing to do with the asylum part for some of them but the whole institution is still called an asylum
You need more credit for this video! This message needs to be heard by everyone! Because you’re not just talking about a video game you’re talking about the psychology of the story which everybody can relate and Batman is supposed to be a character where he supposed to have sympathy for the sick that he supposed to help people not just lock up super villains. I’m surprised you have advertised this video more because this is extremely important for everybody to understand. And I get it it’s a video game. We shouldn’t really look that deep into it, but I feel like regardless of that. It’s a game that’s representing a lot of things and it takes itself so seriously on it. Because it takes itself so seriously is the reason why we should fix this game. If this game was meant to be comical and disregard serious topics in a comedic fashion, then there’s not really a need to fix it because I think at that point it’s designed to be offensive. The reason why I say we need to fix this game is because there’s a lot of rumors- and so far they’re not just rumors- that rocksteady is gonna remake this game, not remaster, remake.
I don't think game is as great as people think it is but I dunno I don't think there's anything broke enough to be fixed. Somethings are just mediocre and matter how much spices you add it's not gonna change.
I think batmans best stories and moments in stories are when his set of morals is questioned. Like his brutalization of alberto falcone in dark victory despite him being the victim, joker forcing him to confront the reality that he is like the inmates in a serious house on serious earth, or pretty much all of dark knight returns.
I always got confused when I heard the criticism that Batman just takes his aggression out on underprivileged people while ignoring greater societal problems, hoarding his wealth and looking down on the less successful and mentally ill. I wondered where it came from. It’s not in the comics where he’s fairly sympathetic to his foes and unrealistically generous as Bruce Wayne. It’s not even in the Nolan trilogy. There’s a bit of it in the Burton movies, but he’s portrayed as more of an antihero there, so that’s hard to get mad at. That interpretation I always saw as a “bad take” is totally accurate in most of the Arkham series. And I’m not sure i heard much of that interpretation talked about until the Arkham games. Seeing Batman condemn the Asylum or express some guilt would go a long way. I think Sharpe is portrayed as evil, but nothing happens in that regard despite how much evidence is on him. I can’t wait to hear what you have to say about the rest of the series
I'm less than a third of the way through, and in at least four instances, you've put words to qualities of the game I'd never hard articulated or discretely thought of before ("moving through water" as the core feeling of freeflow, for one). Can't wait to get to the rest of it tomorrow! Also, this video arrived much earlier than expected. How in the world have you been so productive? I love to see it!
Glad to hear it! Recently upgraded the ol' PC thanks to Patreon, which is 50% the reason it got done so fast (once I decided to make it), cause the other 50% is having years and years to think it all over. Thanks for watching!
I’m literally so amped for this video. I love the series, I love the long form video essay style, and your voice is actually quite calming to listen to compared to some of the other raspy voiced lisp having folks out there ((: Thanks for all your hard work for an awesome experience for all to enjoy
Comparing real life mental disorders and such to a BATMAN game? Dude, you could have just done a video about Aradale and the topic of mental health. Would have enjoyed watching that.
Hey thanks for being here! This video discusses some pretty serious topics, some of which may trigger sensitive discussions in the comments, so before heading down, just be aware of that. Please feel free to talk in the comments below and to offer alternative viewpoints about the game (that's a large part of what this particular video is about). I'm a small enough channel to control what goes on in my comments though, so any sign I see of unhealthy conversation which belittles, diminishes or discriminates will be instantly shut down. I work hard on my videos, so let's please keep being nice to everyone while you're at my place. Thanks!
Jesus Christ loves you
I love it. Replaying it a few times may get a bit old but it’s still pretty amazing
This video is roughly 90 minutes of praise for Rocksteady's Arkham Asylum game and 90 minutes of tearing it back down again and making Rocksteady out to be insensitive for creating this horrible excuse for a Mental Health Care Facility. You act as if they invented this. Have you ever read "Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on a Serious Earth"? What about the Burton/Schumacher Batman movies? Arkham is SUPPOSED to be what those concerned with Mental Healthcare should wake up screaming about when they have work-related nightmares. It's the textbook example of WHAT NOT TO DO. That's the message here. Arkham is the WORST Asylum. Blackgate is the WORST prison. Gotham is the WORST and most crime-ridden city in the DC Universe and you can't swing a teenage sidekick without hitting three schizophrenics who've been off their meds since their escape. That is the POINT. Batman calls himself VENGEANCE. Batman is DESPERATION. He has sworn a vow to FIX his city so that other kids don't have to watch their parents murdered. But he swore this vow in a city where being a Joker Henchman looks like the 3rd most popular job right next to Crooked Cop and Petty Thug. Arkham is the Asylum that Batman has access to, and it's shitty. Wayne throws money at it like rain, but he just inadvertently pays for more creative and expensive abuse. Much in the same way that Marvel's Peter Parker rarely has enough money to pay his rent on time BECAUSE THAT'S PART OF HIS CHARACTER, Batman lives in ShittyTown, and can choose between MurderPrison and LunaticShithole. AND THAT'S THE POINT. Superman was drawn to bright, shiny, art-deco Metropolis and he's a good, bright, cheeful complement to that city. Batman and Arkham Asylum are what you get when you have a Gotham.
Local man discovers Batman is fascistic by nature over the course of 3 hours
It’s a small thing, but I think ur criticizing a lil too harshly how effectively the game teaches player free flow combat. The game has an upgrade system based on choice and experience points, and I’m certain most players wouldn’t just spend their points on random crap without reading these things first. U could argue that many people would gloss over these details, but at the same time, there’s so many useful gadget upgrades/ just really cool and fun to use special moves that you’d need to look through them one at a time in order to determine which one u currently want to unlock. In almost all the arkham games (from what I remember), critical strikes and combo moves have always been upgrades u had to unlock, and said combo moves would always start with an 8-hit combo requirement before u can reduce it to 5. In other words, the game, through these upgrades, allows players to learn the certain intricacies of free flow combat one at a time. More specifically, critical strikes inadvertently teaches the rhythm of free-flow combat to players since they have to time their attacks in order to gain that boost, and the combo moves require players to first be seamless for 8 hits straight, which forces players to be more careful if they want to use these flashy yet useful finishers/throws; if you keep button mashing, it’s likely ur getting hit or missing hits and ruining ur combos, and thus (theoretically at least, can’t speak for everybody) the natural response would be to slow things down and be more careful, which is very easy adjustment to make since the game makes it pretty obvious how to recognize and react appropriately to incoming attacks
“Why is Killer Croc here? He has a physical disease not a mental one.”
He also lives in the sewers, eats raw meat, and thinks he’s a crocodile pretty sure that qualifies him for Arkham, lmao.
And people. Also, it’s been established that Arkham holds inmates that require special cells (Mr. Freeze and Clayface).
@@smugalice6206they’re all insane.
Insane doesn’t mean you fling 💩 at the wall and babble gibberish. Batman himself is insane.
It’s not normal to do anything these people do
+ blackgate was burnt down by joker
“Thinks he’s a crocodile” he is a crocodile
@@neverbeganformehe is just a jacked mutated human technically.
Wait hold up, people don’t like Asylum’s opening? I think it’s great. It’s far from slow and like you said it’s almost breakneck in pacing considering everything they’re throwing at you. They’re setting so much up in just a few minutes while also letting you build up that anticipation.
I think it's more just annoying on replays, it's a perfect opening but I'd say it'd have been wise to make it skipable
On replay it kinda sucks. Like on first playthrough, the walking and the environment is ment to show off what you will have to grow accustomed to in the future, as well as making you think "how is joker gonna get out of this one" which is later mimicked once it's Batman in the restrains.
Its the best opening
@@ZB3003 yes but unavoidable first playthrough
I loved the opening
It's great to see 3 hour videos still being made about this game even after 13 years
That's a reason in itself why he secretly loves this game
Oh my gosh I haven't thought about your channel in months since you stopped uploading, it's crazy remembering the past.
It’s because good art is never irrelevant
you remind me of how old I feel ;-;
thats how you realize how great a game is
In the Arkhamverse, hardly any of the Arkham patients are insane. A lot of them are psychopaths, i.e. mentally ill but still sane. It's a misconception that mental illness and insanity are synonymous. Joker, Zsasz, and Penguin are psychopaths/sociopaths, as in they are impulsively, remorselessly violent yet still lucid enough to fathom morality, consequences, and to stand trial. At best, Joker feigns insanity so he's not executed. Scarecrow's doctor explicitly said he's not insane, just "evil" (i.e. a psychopath.) Batman personally diagnoses Riddler with narcissism and severe obsessive compulsion, which, once again, are mental illnesses but not insanity. The only reason villains like Ivy, Freeze, Clayface, Bane, and Croc are held at Arkham is because their superhuman physiology requires specialized treatment. Furthermore, Arkham Origins retroactively establishes that most of Gotham's supervillains are simply transferred from Blackgate to Arkham due to its incompetence as a proper holding facility, not just Joker's goons. So for all intents and purposes, Arkham Asylum is a maximum security prison with a misleading name. Nothing more, nothing less. The only rogues who actually belong in Arkham are Harley and Two-Face, because they have psychosis/dissociation.
I'm curious, what do _you_ think Harley's diagnosis is?
except the crazy guys who jump at you everywhere
@@AGrayPhantomShe has Histrionic Personality Disorder
@@AGrayPhantom Like the guy above said, histrionic personality disorder is a good guess, given how she over-sexualizes herself for attention. However, if you want to emphasize her psychosis and dissociation seen in Arkham Knight (she hears the voice of "Harleen" in her head, which is both a psychotic hallucination and a dissociative identity), she'd have borderline personality disorder.
Dissociative Identity Disorder and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder aren't basis for an insanity defense, Two-face doesn't belong in Arkham Asylum either
Arkham knight was actually an unreal engine 3 game as well. Crazy how it looks better than most unreal engine 4 games
That’s just a matter of rendering lol. Their UE3 engine is heavily modified for them. Jedi fallen order is UE4. I don’t know many other big UE4 games.
I'd say even more than the actual graphical fidelity, the stylised environments and attention to detail carry it
Yup, though it did use a heavily modified version of Unreal Engine 3, so it's not really fair to say that it used UE3, more like UE3.5
it looks better than games made even now, 7 years later😭
Its the rain that makes it look that good
The story literally explains why croc is there. All Blackgate inmates were transferred to Arkham, the reason croc is in the sewers is because Arkham doesn't have the proper facilities to contain him.
One of the riddles shows the first cell croc was in, the bars are broken and there is a skeletal corpse inside, showing that even in a cell he is a danger. So they modify the sewers, to make sure he can't escape and transfer him there during the opening of the game.
I can't fault Quincy for wanting Joker dead. Anyone with even the basic understanding of psychology knows that the Joker isn't insane. He's evil. He knows what he's doing is wrong, and he still does it because he likes causing harm to others.
Joker isn't an agent of chaos. He's an agent of suffering.
Like Dr. Young notes' clearly state: "...At times, I almost wonder if he's actually insane at _all_ "
Good and evil is a question for philosophy not psychology. Joker exhibits signs of being a psychopath, one of which is like you said, he knows that he is causing suffering to others and doesn’t care/enjoys it.
@@Markustempest don't over-complicate things and bring philosophy into this.
"psychopathy" as a diagnosis is at best colloquial. and there are plenty functional people in society who are seen by medical health professionals as exhibiting anti-social tendencies.
but the Joker fucking murders people, dud. He's aware of his actions, and he enjoys it. i think that's a pretty cut and dry barometer for evil.
Joker is the equivalent of a rabid dog. He has become a danger that must be put down
@@doe-dw9lo psychopathy, sociopathy, narcissism, and other "dark personality" diagnoses are now beginning to be viewed as instances on a spectrum, much like autism. Regardless, the joker not only shows a total disregard for human life, but a pathological need to cause terror while also being fixated on batman throughout his criminal career. His constant call for batman's attention is compulsory, and he creates his acts of terrorism around what Batman would think, to tie them together even further. This would drive any psychologist to make a determination that he is clinically insane. If the batman ceased to exist, there is a good chance joker might kill himself, as he sees no purpose in disturbing the world without batman.
I don't think I agree with all of this. Just because Batman doesn't stop and say "torturing mentally ill people is bad" doesn't mean the game is somehow normalizing or glorifying it. If it is, then is Outlast? If anything I saw this as a cautionary tale.
And most of the people Batman fights are Blackgate thugs, not mentally ill people. Even when he does come across the the actual patients he ko's them quickly.
Also, Joker isn't a revolutionary. Even in the Joker movie he doesn't care to change the system. He's a product of the terrible system in place, but it won't bother him if it changes or not. Like at the end when he's arrested and looking at the rioting, he's laughing as says it's "beautiful".
My guy is going on about how Joker is a revolutionist that shines a light on corruption, to prove that society is the true monster.
The Arkham Joker once replaced Holy Water with sulfuric acid at a Baptism and also murdered a class of children just to lure Robin out, in order to torture him for months.
Arkham Joker might be the most evil incarnation of The Joker, making this video so damn unintentionally funny.
While I appreciate the thoughts and sentiments regarding mental illness, in this context, with Batman and his rouges who have no issue with being evil, empathizing with them is a bold choice. The comments about Joker especially are odd because viewing this version as this anti-capitalist revolutionist when he's a psychopathic narcissist who would kill doctors, patients, police, and his crew for his ego. In reality, that's someone who I call evil if he existed in real life, and in that reality, it's the same thing.
@@godzillazfrictionnobody reading this 😭
@@Devilm4n-cw8tvi did
@@skyking5019 I have been humbled and will retract my statement
Joker doesn't want a revolution. This Joker is the same exact Joker that's in Arkham Knight, where we get to see EXACTLY what would happen if Asylum had played out the way he wanted. Gotham on fire. Everyone dead in the streets. Police unable to handle it. All of Batman's foes brutally murdered by Joker's forces. And Joker laughing the entire time, because that's what Joker wants. He's not crazy, you're right. But he's not a revolutionary either. He's just a sadist who wants everyone to suffer and likes it when what he does causes turmoil, chaos, and pain, whether what he's doing will lead to something positive or not. Eventually, he'll corrupt that positivity anyway when it bores him.
Don't waste your breath, if the guy thinks any version of the joker is a "revolutionary" he is too far gone to be reasoned with
@@PeachBoi_RealI am so glad that this game is getting discussed so much later down the pipeline of when it was released, but I am equally exhausted watching people who this is obviously their only exposure to these characters and this world word salad their way into some of the most (pardon the pun) batshit takes I've ever seen. Anybody with a brain and at least one decent Batman comic under their belt knows that he's not a role model, that he frequently makes bad choices and is never portrayed in any context as infallible, just smart enough to outwit everyone around him and physically able to endure the consequences of his insane self-destructive actions. Calling him a "mega cop" or a political argument in favor of the police force misses the mark so fucking hard its not even funny. Did we forget Battinson? The Dark Knight? Killing Joke? Even the Fox Gotham show which was the most seemingly copaganda-coded piece of Batman media to ever release still portrayed every cop OTHER than Gordon as a slimy scumbag who deserved death or worse because of being in every mob boss and human trafficker's pocket. Half the plotlines of that show were about how much the police force sucks, how a random street-level thug became a supervillain to PROVE how bad the cops were, and then Gordon had to FIGHT the cops to get them put away properly and half the time that didn't even fucking work. Batman is a rich spoiled kid's ANSWER to a shitty police force that failed and his whole story is about how bad of an answer that is and how there are other better alternatives that he refuses to partake in due to his obsession.
The more I watch this guy, and his videos on the Arkham games, the more I am convinced he knows absolutely nothing about Batman.
Did you actually play the game ? what you see in arkham knight is not what would happen if joker succeeded in asylum but if batman turned into the joker how else would he have a batmobile and why would the villains be surprised when he,s trying to kill them second he,s discussing this game without including the sequels or what happens after arkham asylum he says that in the VIDEO
so next time watch or pay attention to the video before you write a dum essay like this
@mgood365 The intent behind Jokers actions, as a consistent character across all three games, doesn't change with what Battech equipment becomes available to him. Whether he's a giant Titan monster stomping through Gotham or driving the Bat tank it still ends the same way, and it's not a revolution for the opressed
@@DrFrankenMax Remember he,s judging the game without including the sequels and how they characterize him and like he said in the VIDEO the game does imply in some instances he is fighting for the oppressed ( as dum as that sounds) so it,s the games fault for implying something as stupid as that and I don't fault him for coming to this conclusion
Yeah the minute that second segment started I began to feel irritated. The whole point of the Arkham Chronicles for example is to show that the good intention of helping the ill went astray and became something malevolent. The whole point of the Asylum is that it became corrupt due to people like Sharp and Arkham himself as well as the city neglecting those who need help. The opposition that happens in the game being a natural consequence to all this abuse of power and Batman suffering and almost going mad in this non rehabilitating Asylum. Batman doesn’t like to beat the mentally ill lmao. He has to fight the ones that pose a threat due to the tragic nature that the Asylum is as a whole. If it weren’t as corrupt (another example being the black gate prisoners) the events of the game wouldn’t have happened. He had to prevent the prison outbreak to keep the rest of Gotham safe from a very faulty institution that was made that way due to a lot of political corruption. Overall I can’t really carry on through the rest of the video due to the gross implications.
The video never got better.
@@smugalice6206 Fr? How so
@@frostreaper2311 dude said “If you suffer from a serious psychological disorder, this is what the game thinks of you, and this is what Batman thinks you deserve.” while sad violin music plays and shows a lunatic rocking back and forth.
@@smugalice6206 Jesus Christ that’s such a bold claim to have toward a game and character. Rather disingenuous overall for the sake of a video
@@frostreaper2311 I’ve never seen a video go to shit that harshly, though him basically saying “Batman should’ve been punching mentally ill women of color” was an omen.
I agree with alot of what you're saying but for me the Batman franchise focusing so much on psychology made me more aware of mental health issues as a young person and made the villians more sympathetic then the usual comic book affair. Batman is also clearly a character suffering from mental illness and the whole idea of Batman and his rouges gallery to me at least is about how trauma shapes you. The best Batman stories are ones where these themes are explored which is why he's the best Superhero imo and why he has such a strong and sympathetic rouges gallery. I do agree though that the backgrounds of these characters and why they are like this should be explored in a more sympatheic way and that Batman as a franchise should be at the forefront of this kind of thought process.
@@WhenDevilsDuel then you don't think "exactly this", they didn't say he "missed the entire point of the series as a whole somehow lol" (a bit redundant also), in fact micah worked off of it because of the way the writing is either avoiding or negligent to the "entire point of the series as a whole"
I think its a hard sell to tell me Killer Croc is only acting out for how he is being treat at Arkham. Its true he isn't there for a mental condition but is kept there due to how physically secure the old building is.
Especially considering his cannibalistic tendencies.
Interestingly Arkham Batman can object to inhumane treatment: in fact he does in Knight's Beneath the Surface DLC mission when he finds out the Warden of Iron Heights was experimenting on Killer Croc. He also interferes when Crane tries to gas people in the tapes the 2nd time within Asylum too. It's likely he just doesn't stop and reflect on what the Arkham staff are exactly doing or worse, selectively ignores it except when it's particularly heinous, even if in reality it's just a product of Rocksteady just wanting to not dwell on the uncomfortable implications of Bats being a megacop
Sorta? The warden of Iron Heights is placed in a cell with the men he abused. It's implied this is his punishment, that he deserves whatever harm is about to be brought upon him. Waylon himself is placed in an inappropriately tiny cell and gassed with drugs to keep him complacent. Mind you there was an active invasion occurring in Gotham at the time, so these arrangements are largely a means of convenience, but there's little emotional reaction from Bruce to signify any motivation to actually help anyone at the end of the DLC. In fact, what happened to Waylon can largely be laid at Bruce's feet, and sure enough it's a return to that abusive status quo at the end of the DLC.
@@AGrayPhantom to be fair to Bruce and as you said there’s either an entire invasion at the doorstep or his secret is out and just needs to get the affairs in order for the single night the story canonically takes place within. As you said the cell is more for necessity and since it’s literally one night we can’t really say anything about it given the situation
@@AGrayPhantomBruce doesn’t really show his emotions outright most of the time, since he’s very stoic. But you can tell he’s angry when he catches the Warden, and accuses him of the horrific crimes committed against the inmates. I think he even calls him a monster to some extent
Who tf is gonna read all that man? Cmon, on a UA-cam comment section?
@@goldenhead293it's a paragraph mate it's a pretty light read.
This is one of the darkest videos I’ve seen, and it being about my favourite video game ever is what makes it great. I love this game to death, the grindhouse horror aspect, the gothic architecture, the simplistic and straight forward story with a massive and in-depth lore that can be chosen to be explored, and my favourite interpretation of Batman, a hero who’s professional and gets the work done. Some of the stills and shots you’ve made are absolutely perfect showcases the horror and the beauty of Arkham Asylum. This is the best examination of this game, you should be proud of the work you’ve put in.
for me it's yet to be topped. the other games tried but never really managed it. Asylum came out of nowhere and blew everyone away. truly a once in a lifetime phenomenon.
Did... did you watch this video ?!
@@ilikemusic9599 yes I did, and what point are you trying to make?
@@zubairali5400 They probably assumed you didn't listen to the critiques of AA's portrayal of mental health because you didn't mention that in the comment and it's a big part of the video.
I don't think the game is blind to the fact that Arkham Asylum is a terrible place that abuses its inmates, and that Batman is a part of this system. These are definitely things on its mind, if you pay attention.
The Amadeus Arkham tapes show that the Asylum was founded on the idea of vigilante justice, and Batman is the natural extension of this idea, which links he and the Asylum in a dark way. Batman just refuses to kill which places him above the inmates and the warden. But Batman is not a moral paragon of compassion and never, ever was supposed to be. Batman is emotionless and cold because his only passion is punishing criminals, which is why even when conversing with civilians he has just saved, he is distant. A recurring line throughout the series is "If they're still alive, I'll find them" when Batman is informed of a hostage. It shows that he has assumed that they are already dead because he has been grappling with the death of innocents his entire life, it is his normal state of being, and something he has come to expect from Gotham, and thus he doesn't waste time shedding a tear. To quote Scarecrow, he is a "twisted shell of a man". And furthermore, the people he fights may be evil murderers, but they are just as sad and broken as he is. The Animated Series really emphasized this idea, and it makes the mythos all the more tragic and compelling. Batman is no saint, he's violent vengeance inflicted against those whom life has dealt a bad hand but who nonetheless pose a threat, and have let their pain drive them toward insanity, just like Batman, but to a more violent extreme.
Scarecrow even tells him that he belongs here, and it's telling that Batman's ultimate nightmare is him becoming a resident of Arkham Asylum.
Gotham is a terrible city where everyone suffers, Batman is just suffering aimed at those who deserve it more. Or, "fear turned against those who prey on the fearful."
The game may not spell out "This is Wrong", which would be boring and pandering anyway, but the subtle bits of horror to be found in the Asylum serve to build the atmosphere and tension of how scary this place is. The horrifying torture devices scattered around the rooms, the raving inmates whom you later find out in Batman's files were driven mad by Strange's experiments. Similar to the Overlook Hotel in "The Shining" or other haunted settings such as in Poe's "The House of Usher", you get a vague and unsettling sense that this place is terrible and has been home to many horrors, the true scope of which is never revealed.
There's nothing wrong with this approach. It's not a flaw. I think it's one of the game's ultimate strengths. It enhances the Arkham mythos and makes it infinitely engaging and expansive. The Asylum literally, thematically, and psychologically contains unfathomable depths. It's even written on the back of the game: "The Asylum holds many secrets...".
That's just good storytelling, man.
Extraordinary. One of the most nuanced, challenging, engaging, creative videos I’ve ever watched. Beyond description. You should be proud, I can’t believe something like this is on UA-cam.
As the holder of the top comment on your old video on the Arkham series, let me just say that I cannot WAIT for you to make up for your past mistakes and FINALLY make a video where you talk about Batman Arkham Origins: Blackgate, for the Nintendo 3DS, for 5 hours.
Now THIS is what I wanted out of a 3.5 hour essay on a single video game. Not just rehashing the same praises and criticisms that we’ve been hearing for over a decade, but coming up with a completely unique (as far as I can tell) take on this subject. I never would have thought about the game in the same manner and depth as you did, and that’s exactly what’s great about this. Sub definitely earned.
I think what this video is made me realize is that I feel future games do actually address batman's actions here in asylum. He sees the actions of City and decides he's going to take a proper political approach to dismantle it only putting on the cowl when it's basically the only option he has. In Knight he's just riddled with self doubts about what it means to be The Batman, and ending the game by realizing he needs to leave and that gotham doesn't need someone like batman they need to rely on themselves for change. That's at least how I interpret it.
i dont quite think so since he basically turns into nightmare batman and that in itself is a resignation that your fight cannot be split into multiple paths and that he chose self sacrifice to continue overlooking gotham. But he also understood that Gotham politically cannot depend on the rich man for change and guidance hence he needs to let Gotham sink and be born anew. I mean Amadeus literally dedicated his entire life and fell into agony and became a monster.
The comic that this game is based off of examines the mental health of Batman and his rogues gallery pretty spot on. Harvey Dent is forced out of his comfort zone by his doctors. While the intentions might be for good, he suffers constantly. They take his coin and give him a die, then a pack of playing cards. He eventually loses all control, he urinates in his seat because he is so use to Yes or No. And at the end, Batman gives him his coin back. He uses the kindness he was shown to grow as a person. Lying for Batman and allowing his escape. It shows how Harvey sees his fellow inmates and Batman. Kindness goes a long way, even for the diagnosed insane. Sometimes a helping hand is necessary. So when people criticize the world of Batman, over his own treatment of his villains, is maddening. Batman is shown to be a great help to his villains who need it. He shows kindness and support for so many. Not just his fists. He strives to show genuine love towards those willing to change. It's far more nuanced than "He hits people because he cares."
At worst, he punches them because they are an active danger for people and the city AT THE MOMENT. Afterwards, he shows them compasion and tries to help them in any way he can. Like in Arkham Origins' DLC Cold Cold Heart.
He started the DLC furious with Mr. Freeze, thinking he attacked Boyle, a person who helps the city. Or so he thinks at the begining. After learning about Mr. Freeze's tragic story and how much of an asshole Boyle really was, he tries to talk Victor down, offering him help to bring Boyle to proper justice. And after Freeze attacks him in rage and he bring him down, he saves him from Boyle and says this: "I'm sorry, Victor... I can't give you peace, but I can give you justice".
While I think this video is extremely well made, I think it also horribly misunderstands Batman and his mythos and a fundamental level. Saying Batman discriminates against the mentally ill just doesn't make sense considering in the comics and other media, he is *also* clearly suffers from mental illness. Like the famous quote "a guy who dresses up as a bat clearly has issues." Not to mention, Batman's distain for many of the super criminals of Arkham are not out of hatred of the criminally insane, but those who take advantage of the system to be labeled as criminally insane (like how Joker uses the insanity to dodge the death penalty). And While Arkham is obviously not a nice place, there are doctors who do care about genuinely troubled patients, doctors like Dr. Cassidy and Dr. Whistler. While the Warden is shown to be a horrible person and just kills many of his residents, Batman can't be said to have not cared, since in Arkham City, a sequel that was planned during Asylum's development, that he tries to shut down Arkham City and is obviously not pleased with him, hanging over a building. While Batman is cold, he does care, the entire reason he has his famous no kill rule, is because he believes everyone is capable of redemption. In the Killing Joke, a story that is referenced several times in the Arkham games including Asylum, Batman tried to level with Joker, asking him to let Batman help him, and Joker plainly declines. Batman isn't some megacop living out a power fantatsy, he just is trying to save lives during a massive breakout, which already took the lives of not only the guards and doctors that work at the asylum, but also of other Arkham patients who were trying to kill each other.
It's always fun watching someone over analyze a game from 2009 over aspects and subtext of the story that may be totally unintentional
Keyword being may 😈
@@z-chan946 yes, I'm not going to pretend like I know what the writers were thinking when they crafted the story. But I find it highly unlikely that they read up on real-world medical diagnosis of fictional characters and prison laws of the mentally insane.
@@Ryan-wr8fx keyword being unlikely 😈😈😈😈 alr but no jokes I agree with you
You seem like a l o s e r who consumes media for fun and refers to them as content on a daily basis
Every building has it's own ambient color, like if you pay enough attention you could see that batman's suit also changes colors depending on batman's surroundings, his cowl goes from dark blue to green and from green to dark brown, I think that was a very cool detail
Isn't Anarky the Anti Capitalist Villian? I find it hard to believe that Joker has any motivation other then pure chaos thats kind of the idea of his character. Putting a ideology on him is the antithesis of whats he's supposed to be as the Joker. There are more villians in Batman's rouges gallery who fit the theme of a villian showing societies ills i think. The game should have been more critical of the institution of Arkham Asylum though and it should have shown us a sympathetic view towards some of these inmates. Maybe have them cower in fear rather then attack like "crazy" people.
It’s always funny to me when people try to paint Joker as an actual anarchist. When describing his own goals, he only ever uses the word “anarchy” in the sense of chaos, mayhem, etc. He doesn’t refer to the actual political ideology. Like you said, he just wants to see shit hit the fan.
Anarky is not a villian
@sumejjaselimovic8694 fair enough honestly lol
Yeah, that really just showed that the maker of this video has a certain view of capitalism that he pinned on Joker to make the game match his worldview.
@@sumejjaselimovic8694 he tried blowing up buildings full of innocent people. while his ideologies aren't villainous, his actions 100% were
Interesting point about the constant never going away tutorial button subtitles. I wonder if in the case of Asylum its because this was one of the last of those - "play it on the XBox at the local game store" games and so when the game is in different spots of the story as people walk up to it there still get prompts. Its not a good reason but just something I thought of
I don’t know, I remember playing one of those demos in a Walmart. All it let you play was the first combat challenge map, not anything from the game proper.
While I do agree that everything in this video is completely, utterly, undeniably valid, I must present the also undeniable fact that it’s a Batman video game with an intentional horror-esk aesthetic as well as components which exist for ease of gameplay and suspension of disbelief.
Heck yeah, can't wait to listen to this all the way through
This is the best part about UA-cam. One day , just like any other, you're scrolling the recommended section. You come across an interesting thumbnail and a title that grabs you. You click, and are transported into yet another world. You find yet another creator (high sub count or low) to pour your time into - maybe too much time. Nice to meet you Micah.
I think you're missing the point a bit when you start explaining how misrepresenting the game is of mental institutions. No one ever said that Arkham Asylum is supposed to be a GOOD mental institution. It's a dark, twisted, fantasy imagining of one. It's the worst you could imagine. This is the world Batman lives in. It's not supposed to reflect the real world or real mental illness. And the world it paints is such an exaggerated one that I don't think anyone should feel they're led to believe otherwise. NO one is going to look at the "lunatics" in the game and go "yep, that's what mental illness is like", unless they're already grossly misguided and out of touch with the world. In fact, had they created a more nuanced depiction of mental illness, I think that would have muddled things even more. Keeping it more black and white makes the distinction of, "this is not real and it's not meant to be", more clear.
You're meant to look at the game as a horror story, representing a world you would never ever want to live in. A story which, after it's over, makes you go "boy, am I glad I'm not living in that world. But at least they have the Batman to protect them." And the fantasy is that you get to BE that protector for a while. I'm not saying the game is by all means flawless and I do agree that the Batman ruthlessly beating up said "lunatics" is kind of questionable, at the very least in terms of Batman's character. In fact, I think the game would be enhanced if Batman actually acknowledged the lack of self-agency of those characters and incapacitated them in a less destructive way, like with a zip tie or knockout gas or something. That would actually be pretty cool.
I also agree that making the Asylum itself a villain would have been an interesting prospect. That the Batman had blamed the incident directly on the institution not working. It would have been good to acknowledge the heinous acts of Warden Sharp more directly in the series, or how Bruce allowed him to become Mayor in the sequel (at least tell how and why he was unable to prevent it).
Edit: I find your interpretation of the Joker in the game incredibly forced. You're actively choosing to see his actions as some kind of call for help or an attempt to call attention to the state of mental care in Gotham. And that's all fine I guess, if that's how you want to see it, but the game never implies the Joker's motivation to be anything more than to torment Batman/Gotham like he has countless times before. His actions are entirely selfish, to the point of discarding Harley, his debatable girlfriend, the minute she's of no use to him anymore. He shows complete disregard to the other inmates, as well. It's all about him and Batman. If anything, all he wants to call attention to, is himself. He's a narcissist, who needs Batman because he's the one who gives him full attention. His attention-seeking motivations are even reinforced by calling in the news to witness his final showdown with the Batman. He probably knows he's going to lose but he doesn't care because he got what he wanted.
"No one ever said that Arkham Asylum is supposed to be a GOOD mental institution."
"This is the world Batman lives in."
This is the actual complaint. Not that Arkham is depicted as abusive, but that the protagonist and superhero is complicit in that abuse. Arkham isn't presented as being good, but Batman is, and Batman both chooses to send his villains there, and does nothing to hold the criminals running the Asylum accountable.
"And the world it paints is such an exaggerated one that I don't think anyone should feel they're led to believe otherwise"
This is an issue of context. From our point of view now, with the hindsight of both more realistic Batman stories and even more realistic Arkham games, Asylum seems exaggerated by comparison. Cartoonish skeletons and the whatever the fuck the lunatics are supposed to be. But within the context of it's release, Arkham Asylum was extremely more realistic and serious when compared to it's contemporaries, especially when compared to it's contemporary Batman video games. Nolan's films are the only exception to this rule.
"NO one is going to look at the "lunatics" in the game and go "yep, that's what mental illness is like""
Representation is just as much subliminal and implicit as it is explicit. The problem of the lunatics is that the player will never give them enough scrutiny to ever question them. I had no idea their eyelids were being held open, because I never paid enough attention to them to look at their character models that closely. The game provokes you into attacking them immediately by utilising jump scares and making their grab attack extremely annoying, making sure you never feel sympathy for them by making them mechanically inconvenient.
@@turbonerdo6838batman doesnt choose to send them there its the court who places them their Batman doesnt have a say in who does or doesn't get put there.
The subject matter of section 2 is some of the most cutting and human content I've heard in this space. Looking forward to seeing more from you!
The way you use silence in this is absolutely beautiful. Excellent work.
Arkham opened in 1921. If you want more information on the Asylum, I suggest you read Arkham Asylum: a Serious House on Serious Earth Anniversary Edition, the book which the game is based on.
The reason I think you should get the Anniversary Edition is because it has the writers full script and notes of the graphic novel.
Damn, I'm glad I stuck with this video all the way through cause it gets so good when you get to Part II and delve into the mental health aspects of the game. I found it so intriguing to hear someone analyze since it WAS something on my mind when playing the game and all the mentally unwell people are men in peak physical health and age who want to kill Batman. I don't have unrealistic standards for a fun video game to get into the unsavory real world topics, but we have Batman share dialogue with officers and doctors, they could have fit in some inmates who are caught in the middle of this madness and put it into perspective that Batman is aware of it.
It’s explained in-story that the most of the people you fight are Joker goons brought in from Blackgate Prison.
Now those lean lunatics, on the other hand...
The reason there were all kinds of wacky takedowns in stealth sections when Batman is usually all business isn't because Batman gets a kick out of it, it's because he relies heavily on theatrics and frightening the enemies. A ninja who can silently take you out at when you're not looking is one thing, but Batman can get you anywhere at any time. Nowhere is safe from Batman.
Exactly. What's more scary and make you want to shit your pants from fear?
A guy who NEEDS to get behind you to take you down? Or the one that can go though walls, catch you from the vents, attack you from the ceilings, etc. without alerting anyone?
It's difficult to look at a project with this much talent, passion, and plainly evident hard work fall prey to such a basic vice at the end. The brutal conditions of the Asylum aren't a sweeping moral declaration that mentally ill people deserve to be made to suffer. Batman letting them lock up people who, out of lock and key, will kill others without hesitation... clearly isn't narrated as a part of his thirst for vengeance. The Asylum, for all its extreme faults, exists to protect and help its inhabitants as much as those they would murder. The fact that the people involved do not yet know a better way isn't some twisted moral vacancy content with a clearly dismal state of affairs. It's people trying to help and learning how to do it better as they go along. Because the known alternatives are far, far worse.
I'll try to not read into the cold, sick feeling it puts into my stomach when I try to understand why you're prepared to project such extreme moral shortcomings onto a fairly undeserving canvas. But if you saw the attention to detail put into the suffering of the Arkham franchise's antagonists and didn't see the dark realities of institutional limitations both past and present used so deliberately to catch the audience's attention and only saw apathy... It's hard to imagine you simply weren't looking for an excuse to have a moral outrage about something.
Thank god, you put words where I couldn't.
You forgot (I think) that The Joker's lifegoal is not to be forgotten. Kind of like a catastrophic event that will be remembered through the ages. He wants to bring chaos to the city with the use of monsters so that everyone will come face to face with him. There is no alterior motif, there is no search for justice. He wants to be glorified one way or another.
My intepretation indicates that the Joker Figment in Arkham Knight is a vision of Bruce Wayne's greatest fears embodied as his perception of the Joker, so it's actually Batman who's afraid of being forgotten. Think that's pretty clearly what the game was playing into, metaphorically displaying Joker as a version of himself that Batman doesn't want to become, but Joker himself is already dead and isn't in Arkham Knight. Even so, if Joker did share the fear of obscurity, it still plays into the theory of the Asylum Joker acting out of a desire for empathy, something he wouldn't recieve if he was forgotten. So even if you're right, it actually plays in favour of a Joker who wants more awareness for the plight of the mentally ill quite strongly.
@@MicahEdmonds Interesting. I always thought that Batman's greatest fear was to become just like all the other criminals (namely The Joker in Arkham Knight's context). But you do have a point.
Also, maybe I'm mistaken, but wasn't Arkham Asylum supposed to hold Joker's men only temporarily? Meaning that until another place was ready they would've stayed there, but that otherwise they wouldn't even be there. The distinction between Joker's army and the actual "guests" is pretty striking, so it's possible that the Asylum was only supposed to hold in people with a kind of insanity that would bring them to commit crime that isn't simply stealing or something, but actually murdering people (like the Joker Nygma, or those guys that scream all the time). It's pretty obvious that the way these people are treated is as insane as their own condition if not more so, but could it be that when Batman or the Police bring them to the Asylum they are already in that condition? I mean, it's not like Joker gets crazier every time he breaks out, same goes for all the other criminals. That would at least somewhat justify Batman's lack of reaction upon seeing these men the way that they're shown.
Oh and another thing that I think should be stated is that Batman doesn't just go ham on the actual criminally insanes, he just Ko's them with one or two hits, unlike Joker's men who get repeatedly stomped on.
@@jackswan338 perhaps the most common depictions of him, but maybe Rocksteady wanted to portray the character in a different light in Arkham Knight
@@MicahEdmonds Joker doesn't want the issues of how the mentally ill are treated to be addressed, he wants revenge for the way society has treated him in particular. The Joker has always been depicted as someone who cares about only himself (and sometimes Batman due to seeing himself in him in some twisted way). That's why Joker's line about killing asylum inmates is there; because he doesn't give a shit about the mentally ill.
@@MicahEdmonds "My intepretation indicates that the Joker Figment in Arkham Knight is a vision of Bruce Wayne's greatest fears embodied as his perception of the Joker"
The nature of the Joker hallucination, both diagetically and metaphorically, is very deliberately ambiguous. Bruce's fear of becoming corrupted by his own anger and violence, of killing making him no better than the criminal he fights, manifests as being afraid of becoming the Joker. And therefore, the fear toxin acts as a catalyst which accelerates the effects of Joker's blood, and magnifies the Joker personality which such blood carries.
There is certainly a lot of Joker's dialogue which sounds like Bruce's own self hatred and self loathing being voiced by Joker, of him criticising himself of putting his friends in danger. Yet in the games finale, Joker is clearly represented as an agent independent from Bruce, who comes to power because of Bruce's fear, and becomes suppressed because of his own fears of Batman. I think there's too much evidence of Joker being an independent agent to argue that Joker is an entirely fabricated construct of Bruce's mind. When he laughs in Scarecrow's face and tells him to get ready for the encore, that isn't Bruce being afraid, that's Joker being liberated.
My interpretation is that there is a struggle in Bruce's mind between his consciousness and the Joker's, and the more fear toxin he inhales the more agency and independence Joker gets. At the start of the game when you exit Ace Chemicals, Joker is almost entirely a product of Batman's mind. He voices Bruce's fears and insecurities. But I think the ambiguity of Joker's nature is to make the player feel the same way Batman does, not knowing what reality is, not knowing if he's a victim of manipulation or if this is all his own inner monologue. Both the Stagg airship and the movie studios hallucinations work under either the context of Joker being a devil on Bruce's shoulder manipulating him, or Bruce being self destructive and tempted and giving in at moments of emotional weakness. I think the ambiguity of Joker is what elevates these scenes to greater depth.
"so it's actually Batman who's afraid of being forgotten"
The entire game is under the dramatic irony of this being Batman's death, Scarecrow's goal is to destroy your legacy and legend. Bruce learning to let go of the Batman and sacrifice his legacy because it is no longer effective is a valid character arc. But the biggest objection I have to this analysis is that the Knightfall protocol is not something thought of after the games finale, but a protocol pre-planned before the game even ends. So Bruce has been willing to sacrifice Batman if his identity is ever threatened, which is to suggest that he does not learn about the pointlessness of legacy after he defeats the Joker, because he already planned to do this beforehand.
Going back to Bruce being willing to sacrifice himself, I would point out that Bruce being afraid of his own personal safety is the direct result of the Joker hallucination, or the fears and insecurities such a hallucination represents. Bruce is entirely willing to sacrifice himself at ACE chemicals, and Joker is the one who emphasises self preservation. "After all, you're brooding for two now". This selfish desire manifests in the movie studios, where Bruce locks Robin because he views his personal freedom as more important than Robin's. So it could be seen that whilst Bruce prepared the Knightfall protocol earlier, that he wasn't entirely confident in it being necessary, and had reserved doubts about it's effectiveness, and merely hoped it would never need to be used.
"but Joker himself is already dead and isn't in Arkham Knight."
Whilst the metaphorical significance of Joker's dialogue being things that Bruce actually thinks is still very relevant to analysis, I think it's pretty disingenuous to ignore the exposition given during the Gordon flashback. The Joker blood is capable of manipulating the patients to the point that they display Joker like behaviour and tendencies. Joker may be dead, but if his blood is capable of a rough recreation of his consciousness in others bodies, then the Joker hallucination still functions like a copy of Joker from a character perspective, the same way a clone or a multiversal doppelganger does also.
"if Joker did share the fear of obscurity, it still plays into the theory of the Asylum Joker acting out of a desire for empathy"
As soon as you said Joker is someone looking for empathy in the video, I immediately thought of Joker's final scene in Knight. Being shoved into a cramped cell with scribbled writing, reaching out to Bruce and saying "No please, don't leave me. I need you." The vocal performance of Hamill carries a lot of pathos and tragedy in that plea, it is very clearly showing Joker's sadness and desperation and how Arkham isolates him. And I think it is very telling that Joker's greatest fear isn't Batman, it isn't being forgotten. It's Arkham Asylum. That's the thing he fears the most, the thing he wants Batman to save him from, the thing that Batman condemns him to.
This is a fantastic extensive critique and review of a game: possibly the best I’ve ever seen - full-stop.
Great work!
I personally enjoy the idea that Gotham is the ‘un-just city’ and that it is essentially pre-modern in its approach to mental health. Batman is at it’s most compelling when framed as a gothic-horror-noir.
2:46:09
What? First of all, Joker is literally responsible for the Titan experiments. I don't think his plan was to shed light on the suffering of Arkham patients, because he's the one that caused it. I mean, sure it's messed up that Dr. Young agreed to it and carried out the experiments but I don't think it was some grand 4D chess by Joker to show how corrupt Arkham was, he just wanted an army of titan mutants. Secondly, we DO see Joker's men fighting the Lunatics, when you enter Arkham North after leaving the Penitentiary when they're released. He only releases them to distract Batman, he clearly doesn't care about them and isn't trying to liberate them in some kind of crusade. They're annoyances to him and Joker ordering his men to kill them isn't bad writing.
Your take on the Arkham series has always been the most interesting to me. I’m excited to watch this one all the way through.
Had a previous comment which I deleted upon further thought, so here’s what I’ll say.
I did like the video and subscribe, you made a lot of really good points on the overall demonization of mental health and I appreciate sincerely you starting a conversation on how that needs to change. I even believe something should be said before interpretations of mental health that are not accurate are shown. However, in the context of this game and Batman as a character, Bruce Wayne on numerous occasions has attempted to reform Arkham through funding/political campaigns. Yes, it is a flaw of this game’s narrative to not address what he has seen, but a lot of the prisoners here are just transfers, not actual inmates. And as far as Batman’s reaction to the more animalistic inmates, they are attacking him, what else is he supposed to do? He has to defend himself as anyone would if being attacked. I am in no way dignifying or justifying the treatment of the mentally ill in this game by the characters, nor am I saying there isn’t a problem here narratively. But some of the ideas that you give here I feel are flawed. Joker does not care about the mentally at all in most interpretations. Yes, he is mentally ill. Yes his actions are because of this. But the overall goal of the Joker is to cause mayhem and play with Batman. Not to be a revolutionary. That is a more recent interpretation from one film.
I love the points you make about the demonization of mentally ill patients and I do appreciate the conversation you’re trying to start. But in the universe of Batman, I feel there is some misunderstanding here. However, maybe new stories need to be started. Maybe more attention to the dramatization of mentally unstable patients in stories needs to be stated. Regardless, excellent work.
I like this comment. These issues are complicated and have to be discussed more than lectured.
but that's what he's talking about. You're the one saying that's what Joker wants, the game is not; and on top of that the deliberate ambiguity and arguable lack of understanding of many of the topics touched upon makes the revolutionary angle on him a very valid take
@@crangejo How was he trying to be a revolutionary?
I appreciate your analysis, but I find your comments about whether the game is "influential" or "great" a little baffling.
Regarding whether it's "influential", you say "just because the game may have influenced titles after it doesn't mean it wasn't influenced itself," which seems like a complete non-sequitur. Most things that are influential also have influences; that's just kind of how culture and ideas work. You also seem to be trying to say (both at that point and much later in the video) that the game can't be called "influential" unless it reaches a particular standard of quality or "greatness", which doesn't actually have anything to do with how "influential" it is. I'm not sure why you're resistant to calling the game "influential" despite acknowledging that it "may have influenced titles after it," because that's the only thing that "influential" really means.
Regarding calling the game "great", I think you're absolutely right that to say a game (or anything else) is "great" without qualification isn't really appropriate once you've observed these sorts of problems in it. But as you discussed in the beginning of the video, it has strengths and weaknesses, and I don't think that something with such extreme strengths and weaknesses necessarily averages out to "fine". I think it's perfectly reasonable to say "elements of this game are great, and elements of it are very bad," and not feel the need to sum that up in a single "rating" word like "fine" or "great."
2:13:50 Disagree! Aaron Cash is physically disabled, Oracle too but I understand if she doesn't count due to never appearing on screen.
Does Warden Sharpe needing a cane to walk count?
@@smugalice6206think thats more because he thinks so highly of himself that he needs a cane to walk i mean there are number of statues and potraits of him and he also thinks himself "the voice of arkham" as also seen written on the posters
@@heyyygabiii(same guy, different account) That’s valid.
2:13:00 I’ve been liking this video so far, but I’ve got to point something out: the ninjas you fight in City and Knight are exclusively women, and in Origins, you fight Lady Shiva and Copperhead. Frankly, the take of “Batman didn’t punch enough mentally ill women” was not something I expected to hear.
Edit: “Also, NO ONE here is physically disabled.” That’s just untrue. Aaron Cash has a hook after Killer Croc ate his hand, Warden Sharp uses a cane to walk, and even though she isn’t seen in-game, Barbara Gordon is shown to be in a wheelchair in her character bio art.
Edit 2: “There is only one woman being treated at Arkham” That’s an outright lie. Along with Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn is an Arkham inmate. Christ, if you’re going to boil a cast down to their skin tones and genitals, at least be correct.
Cannot tell you how excited I am to see you back in the Arkham universe! I absolutely LOVE your videos, man! No joke, your Arkham Retrospective is one of, if not my all-time favorite video on UA-cam. You completely changed not only the way I look at video games, but the way I critique art as a whole. Your content found me at a time of immense maturity growing in my life, and I truly will never be able to thank you enough for your small hand is shaping my critical thinking skills, and my overall way of conducting both my speech and writing. "You've honored the reputation of Batman many times over, and for that I thank you." Thank you, Micah. Thank you for helping me be who I am today. Wishing you the best of everything to come, KR.
Your narrative analysis of asylum and Batman as a whole is amazing. It shows how much potential batman stories have, and how shallow most are in comparison.
The visuals on this are on a whole other level. The fact that this is 3 hours long but doesn't feel padded or rambly in the slightest speaks volume about the quality of the work. Very common for these multiple hour long videos to just be every inkling of a thought someone had over a subject, but this is clearly something you have been thinking about for a long time. The fact that you spend the time to give us other perspectives into this world, even divorced from Batman himself, especially on Section II, is nothing short of brilliant. The different angles, the - dare I say - cinematographic lense you apply to this video game world gives it life. The look you shine upon it when recording is something no one else is doing on the internet. Truly.
Even a shot like the one at 1:46:54, that is so beautifully haunting. The sway of the clearly virtual branch over the very virtual statue brings out, somehow, the very real humans that made it. Just like the lunatics from the game, when looked upon with tenderness, and not brute, retributive justice, makes us that much more sad about the real humans, that ask for care, and we answer with cages. Should we feel good about being The Batman? About bringing The Justice to people who can't even comprehend what that is?
Somehow, seeing the details of this virtual world, of this virtual depiction of the very real and very frail human mind makes it even more haunting, even more beautiful, even more pertinent, even more realistic. There are some shots in here that I'll carry forever in my mind. You've got a clear talent from this. From the bottom of my heart, THANK YOU, and please, if you feel like going on, I'd love to keep being a part of the audience. Thank you, and I hope you carry on making videos. You got a voice like none other in this platform.
I enjoyed the first half of this video, but not the rest of it.
this was such a profoundly insightful and moving video. it has to be one of the best things i've seen in a VERY long time
the pacing, writing, visuals, music, and atmosphere were so on point and cinematic it was just unbelievable!!! incredible work, this video has left a really big impact on me, both as a fan of the arkham series and a person as a whole.
You really put to words thoughts I put in the back of my mind while playing. Just wow this was an amazing video.
Hell yeah, this would have been a much better game if we walked up to psychopathic criminals and pressed X to empathize with them. Batman would sit down and have 1 on 1 therapy sessions on his way to group therapy with Joker and the rest of his rogue's gallery at the end. That would have been SO much more fun. It's also a shame that I now consider all mentally ill people deranged monsters because of how the patients in one asylum were depicted in a video game where a wealthy vigilante dresses up like a bat and goes into firefights with his fists.
Unfortunately, the ending just turned into unbearable bleeding heart hand-wringing. “I can’t recommend this game because it’s so problematic! I gotta calm down because I’m so upset!.”
Sheesh.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yet another 🤡 who consumes media for fun and refers to them as content on daily basis.
They aren't saying that it needed to be utterly non violent but Batman could have shown Empathy, tried to punish Sharp etc. City even acknowledges this with him saving a city full of criminals at the end because they deserve it.
This video is the definition of overthinking.
I watched the whole damn thing.
2:46:03 no I am sorry but god no, I was with you till this moment because this sounds absurd.
Look I know you love The Joker film I do too but that version of the character and all that it stands for is not thr same as the one for the games or comics.
Joker isnt written as a rebel with a cause but more so just a man taking his own personal hatred with the world and turning it on to humanity. I mean this guy is stated to have shot and crippled Batgirl and is now trying to make a mutant army. I doubt this brand of logic you are using fits this story or character.
It also sounds kinda dumb when you remember that Joker payed Doc Young to make these monsters for him which would me he was fine with her using inmates as test subjects. Plus he also killed one of them without empathy.
I remember playing the game when it was released.
After any action I was saying "I am Batman !"
It's the first game that really gave me that feeling. The game aged and I never like Rocksteady's over guidance but it's still awesome imo.
2:54:15 I got chills at this point, clearly distinguishing between being a hero, being powerful, and being Batman. Chills, literal chills.
31:38 Not Random, I think the slomo are only for special strikes or on the strike that will turn your combo bar ''Yellow'' so you know you have an special move available. But i guess it becomes a bit repetitive since with upgrades you can get a special move every 2 hits. However i use the slomos a lot to take a good look around and plan out the next moves
this video was so good. i've always felt slightly bad for enjoying the arkham series due to the treatment of the mental patients by both staff and batman himself. this videos talks so well about such a difficult topic. bravo to you, good creator!
Bro this game ain't so deep that u need the melodramatic piano music with the footage of physiciatists talking about of tragedies
I love this game but bro it's just punchy until u fight a goblin monster at the end
*que the 20 minute segment in the video where he talks about this one comment and how it gives you perspective on the meaning of life
you’ve a completely valid interpretation of this game if you ask me. thats what makes this discussion so interesting
From one hand "it isnt so deep" but on the other people call it a masterpiece with a great story
You cant have both
@@jimtsikos7712 You can have a good story that isn't deep
2:12:26 would make sense if scarecrow didn’t exist. Sure the game has no people and only revolves around one man but the man in question dresses as a bat, beats up on thugs, and constantly thinks himself as belonging in this same hospital. Batman doesn’t think he’s deserving of being alive or without being incarcerated in the equivalent of hell.
You assume the world building is fucked because it covers extreme comic book vibes with a serious undertone of mental illness left untreated. So why stop at the game and not any other book or video game??? Because it isn’t saying mental illness is horrible and should be eradicated but rather that it can be saved, that’s why Batman still saves thugs and villains. But the fault of Batman isn’t that he can’t kill or save them so much as it’s that he can’t save them from purgatory. He can only really save himself by sticking to the path.
He’s also bound to let the law do its job in which case the people of Gotham are to blame. Batman spits on Quincy Sharps notion, maybe not audibly, but through actions he takes throughout the game. Batman has to face dark reflections and conquer them but the flaw of Batman is that he believes it to be a solo task.
If you read the book Arkham Asylum a serious house on serious earth, it covers Batman basically enduring hell. in order to escape the hell he has to let people help him mainly Harvey dent. Harvey, who has been worked onto tarot cards instead of the coin, is given that coin back by Batman which threatens to undo the work set out by the doctors. But Harvey saves him by his own accord as it’s revealed that he didn’t obey the coin at all. Batman is also seen as an evil by the current warden in the book who describes how he simply sends them to a place, WHeRE THERE SUPPOSED to BE TREATED, as a bad thing despite Batman having to work around the clock at night to fucking protect Gotham.
It’s much the same here where Batman is seemingly an annoyance to Sharp despite his being the “legacy bearer”. Hell after sharp is found out he begs Batman to do it. Now all this to say while it doesn’t tackle the people at the asylum very well or at all. To say that it’s somehow Batman’s fault for his power trip is a disservice to how terrible of a day this actually is for Batman. Because despite Batman being “ overpowered “ in combat and Stealth it actually isn’t the case given him being unable to save lots of people or even believing he can stop the joker.
The world building is good, it might not be tasteful to you but this baffling depiction of its obscene and horrible take on mental illness as “ an evil” (which by the way doesn’t exist as a truth but a fallacy in the game). Is a disservice to the actual message that it gives.
I feel like Croc is really a doomed character. Guy has PTSD from a lifetime of dehumanizing abuse, pushed to cannibalism, and significant regeneration that only serves to dehumanize him further. Not to mention he is a 10'+ tall gator man. How do you treat that person? Ethically, what do you do for them?
That’s honestly a fair question. We even see in Arkham Knight that his condition has gotten worse, and due in large part to the continued exploitation of his mutation. Even when he’s locked up in GCPD again, there’s no closure, and he goes back to being a monster to be caged. Hell, Batman doesn’t say or do much to try and make things better. With that in mind, it’s important to remember that these games only occur in four nights, but some dialogue or tapes where Batman reflects on the asylum could have been good.
I've been watching this over a few days now and I think you did a good job talking about the topics you have brought up. But your interpretation on Joker as a revolutionary going against the corruption of the system is a misread I believe. He uses his henchmen as a tool to interact with Batman, not to give them any freedom or justice. Joker's motivations don't come from, in this game, from being wronged by the system but from his obsession with Batman. Also Arkham Asylum is used as a supermax prison with the window dressing of an insane asylem.
And your points of Batmans beating on the mentally ill falls on their face for a majority of the characters present. Namely the aforementioned prisoners. This is because they are Blackgate prisoners and NOT mental patients. However the "lunatic" enemies are sorrowful to see. But what would you have anyone do when they are running towards you? Though I do agree with you looking into the injustice visible on the island and it is a glaring flaw that he never says anything nor does anything about it.
Bro that’s one of the hardest UA-cam thumbnails I’ve ever seen.
I will agree on that. Finding out that Ex Inferis means “from Hell” is very metal and resonates with the depiction of Arkham in the game.
19:40 Thank you! Finally a UA-camr who knows what they're talking about with the combat
Wow man. Just wow. I normally don't watch videos this long about stuff I've already heard but with UA-cam premium I was able to listen to this whole thing at work and it's actually a brilliant video. Bravo mate honestly. You changed the way I see a game and really did end up spreading awareness as well. Great job 👍
So nobody else is gonna talk about that beautiful “Talkin’ ‘Bout Stealth” song at… the Stealth section? No? Just me? Alright, because it was fucking hilarious and I kinda want a full rendition now. Just. Perfect.
I have to say you kind of lost me around 2:05:00. I feel like this chunk of this section detracts from your overall analysis. You're trying to make this fictional superhero game fit into the real world. Nothing about this game fits into the real world. The batwing, the batmobile, batarangs, the crpytographic sequencer, titan formula, a caped crusader, supervillians,... none of this fits into the real world. Nothing about this game can be anaylized the way you're trying to do so here. You're trying to make them account for artistic license when without doing what they have done, you wouldn't have a game. I understand trying to grapple with the mental health issues at play here, that's actually quite admirable. Our understanding of mental health and the exploitation of mental health issues for shock value in media is abhorrent but, we cannot reasonably expect a perfect depiction of mental illness to be portrayed in a video and still have any sort of compelling story. The suspension of disbelief, the suspension of understood reality is necessary.
In real life there is no superhero, no supervillian, no grand conspiracy, no rocket powered car that turns into a tank and fires only nonlethal rounds, no one can fly using a cape, falling into a vat of toxic waste doesn't turn you evil, your parents' death doesn't create a righteous anger, and there are no half man/half crocodiles. You have to be able to say "this is a game, it does not intend to make an statements on the realities of mental illness or the treatments thereof, it is merely a plot device to further you along in the game".
Edit: Yeah man, this whole section just comes off as incredibly self-righteous. You're asking far too much of a video game. Practically speaking, your criticisms in this section cannot possibly be accommodated in a game of this type. I really think this whole section is just absolutely off the mark. I'm not saying what you've said is bad or unimportant, on the contrary, I agree with everything you've said. I know what you mean and I know that it is right. But for this context, it just screams of mansplaining and trying to retroactively apply more importance to the storyline of a video game than is justifiable. I really just get a sort of "white man's burden" vibe from the whole thing. "Let me, the educated white person 13 years in the future, tell you how to do your job and play your game".
Your criticism of not seeing enough women and minorities in the game is valid. I will say that is something I have noticed on my playthroughs. That could've been pretty easily remedied.
Edit 2: I don't like how now that we're trying to justify the acts of Waylon Jones and Scarecrow. This is not on point, bud. I think you assume that everyone who is in the asylum is actually medically insane and not legally culpable for their actions when, in the context of the batman universe, we see that Crane, Jones, Joker, Penguin, The Riddler,... they're not mentally ill, they're willfully evil. The only two characters who legitimately need treatment are Harley and Two-Face.
Edit 3: Your psychological analysis of Batman is very pop psychology. You're making a lot of grand sweeping statements about the mental health and attitudes of characters and not providing anything to back it up.
Edit 4: You just said that we have to view the game in the context of the it's own storyline and associated universe when you've spent the last 45 minutes try to apply an outside world view onto the game. Not rad.
Edit 5: After saying you are trying to apply the world of the game to the game for interpretation you then use an entirely different piece of media that came out more than 10 years later to interpret the game.
Edit 6: Nuance be damned? Bro, you can't say that after you've spent literally 2 and a half hours trying to convince us that nuance is the most important part of the interpretation.
Edit 7: I'm going to give you a like on this video because, most of this video is quite good. I believe in the things you've said. It's good. However, I think your arguments are not really all that good. I think you're right but how you get there is flawed. You practice a poor pop psychology, bad philosophy, and very poor arguments. However, you did challenge my preconceived notions and you made me think. I appreciate that. This is, for the most part, a good video.
Edit 8: 2:58:40 Whoa, whoa, whoa. You can't just say that without evidence. You can't make that accusation without actually showing that to be truth... which you have not done. That is a wild extrapolation. You can't justify that claim. What's with all the bad psychology dude?
Edit 9: 3:02:00 Where is that said? As it seems to me, the only ones who said that in the game were villains. You're making a big fucking claim about the attitudes and motivations of the characters without actually having any real evidence to back that up buddy.
Edit 10: 3:03:00 Matey you gotta stop. This is getting out of hand. I'm trying really hard to give you the benefit of the doubt but, your hot takes are somehow only getting worse the further along this video goes.
Edit 11: 3:05:20 This is the first correct thing you've said in a while. You finally looked at it in the context of the game. It's literally just a shallow fighting game where you go through levels taking down baddies. We're not dealing with the Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner - it's fucking batman. This whole video is an exercise in shit pop psychology and bad philosophy. I spoke too soon when I said this was a good video. It could've been but, it's not.
What you talked about in edit 10 blew my mind when I first heard it. He must’ve been high on moral superiority when he wrote, said, and left that in during editing.
@@smugalice6206 I think his heart is in the right place for most of the video but in the last few segments it really just devolves into this nonsensical ranting about things that either have no context or are specifically taken out of context
@@emanuelcook5171 He’s definitely earnest, and if he makes a video on Arkham City like this, I’ll enjoy the first half of it.
It’s just really disappointing that the second half of that video will probably compose of a Brit winging about the US prison system (ignoring how Arkham City was made with the purpose of killing criminals and political prisoners. If criminals die/are killed by others, that’s not a bug; it’s a feature). Maybe he’ll take offense on women’s behalf that hardened criminals say mean things to Catwoman. On a side note, one of the first things you hear from the inmates in Arkham City is “You’re gonna be my bitch, Wayne!”
I do look forward to him trying to put a positive spin on “With the addition of assassins, Batman gets to punch women of color with bone crunching impact, an improvement on Asylum’s exclusively male enemies. I wish it happened more often, though.” That’ll be funny.
@@smugalice6206 I think the caricature of him being like "batman punching women of colour is good for intersectional feminism" is a little off the mark. That's a cheap laugh that has very little basis in reality. No one who can be taken seriously would ever say anything like that. While I agree that this guy is clearly trying to virtue signal and thump his own chest I also think that making silly claims like that just detracts from the credibility of anyone on this side. If we want to changes hearts and minds then you have to be able to rise above the pettiness.
As for the US prison system, oh man, he would (very rightly) have a field day with that. However, again, you're right in saying that in the context of the game it makes sense and him making any sort of grand sweeping moral statements (like in this video) would not only be ridiculous but also immediately signal that this guy can't distinguish between the game and reality on some level.
@@emanuelcook5171 I admit that I am being *extremely* snarky about him celebrating punchable Asian women, but sometimes you’ve got to put stuff like that to make people question why they thought/said certain things. Questions I wish he asked himself as he wrote that in his script include:
1: “Why do I think Batman should have been punching (most likely) mentally ill women in this game (Asylum)?”
2: “How would that have improved the game?”
3: “Would opening that can of worms even be worth it from a developer’s perspective?” And most importantly:
4. “Why am I bringing this up?”
I don’t write video essays, but I know a thing or two about writing; one of those is that while redrafting a persuasive essay, you often need to ask yourself why you want to include certain arguments, as well as think through them.
I’ve said in a different comment that I left that if he replies, I’ll be perfectly civil to him (and that still stands), but in the meantime, I’m not going to pretend he didn’t drop the ball in certain areas like an atom bomb.
I’m glad we agree on how laughable it’d be for him to get on a soapbox about how Arkham City is a reflection of irl issues. There are issues with the prison system in the US for damn sure, but a video about a video game with a zombie brute, ninjas, hypnotizing hats, a shapeshifting clay man, and more is NOT the right context to have that conversation. If he cares so deeply about that topic, then I encourage him to make a separate video about that.
PS: I think I was crass but very honest in my caricature of Micah. From 2:13:00-2:14:00, he pointed out that: a) there are no regular female hostiles throughout this series, and
b) there are no women of color in this game. By that logic (for better or worse), Micah would have to praise Arkham City for including women of color that are hostiles, but in order to stay consistent with his criticism, he’d have to criticize City for not having enough female hostiles. Combining all that into a statement, you get a gussied up version of: “With the addition of assassins, Batman gets to punch women of color with bone crunching impact, an improvement on Asylum’s exclusively male enemies. I wish it happened more often, though.” If I’m wrong in this train of logic, let me know how.
I feel like i should be criminally charged for not finding your channel earlier. this is amazing content, just subbed to the patreon!
Jesus Christ. What a good video. Loved the Aradale postscript. Amazing work. CANT WAIT FOR CITY
"Arkham Asylum is over" made a video after 13 years it released. sure
I just woke up and I’m 2:05:57 and I have no clue where I am. cool video though
"Oh no people don't feel seen in a comic book game" 😂
I like that they captured the feel of the empowered stealth even in the name, Predator.
I think Dr. Young is mentioned only once after the events of Arkham Asylum. In Arkham City, Bane refers to her, once, by the title he's given to her-- "the bruja" --when explaining his motivation for gathering up the vats of TITAN located within Arkham City. He might mention her once or twice more, but I can't recall that off the top of my head.
Apparently she’s talked about a lot in A Matter of Family.
3:08:56 With all due respect, at that point in this video, you’d been going on for about 50 minutes how absolutely insensitive this game is (and later you ultimately say you can’t recommend people play this game because of that insensitivity), so that’s a pretty huge inditement. I’d hardly call that fair, either.
I’m not trying to dismiss your thoughts, but look at it this way: You don’t criticize an apple for not tasting like an orange. While you can do so and have a conversation/deeper look about why it doesn’t, at the end of the day, the apple is not an orange.
Batman: Arkham Asylum is a video game focused on action and horror, at the end of the day. It never tried to give a PSA about mental health awareness.
I realize there’s an endless loop of conversation over “X wasn’t trying to do Y” / “ah, but by not doing Y, what does that say about X?”, but my point is that I would’ve preferred going into the interview tapes instead of this take of “Joker wasn’t completely wrong in killing dozens of Arkham’s staff (and enjoying it) because they participate in the system that oppresses him.”
this comment is better than the entire second half of this video about how insensitive this game is lol
@@RuneAnimations22 To be fair, that isn’t a hard task. “If you suffer from a serious psychological disorder, this is what the game thinks of you, and this is what Batman thinks you deserve.” while sad violin music plays was a frankly, groan-inducingly awful line that I didn’t hear when I left my comment.
If he replies, I’ll be polite and reasonable to him, but to put it bluntly: fuck off with that moralizing bullshit.
Thank you! I agreed with a lot of this guys points but it felt like the last half was him justifying the jokers uprising way too much and also putting way too many expectations on a brand new batman game made on a tight schedule by a semi inexperienced studio.
@@RainCloudVideos As I listened him, I was reminded of that one psychologist from Dark Knight Returns who also argued Joker was a victim. Joker ended up killing him and the entire late night show audience they were invited to. Joker takes sympathy shown to him and uses it to pull a gruesome prank because he’s a sick person.
I completely agree that he expected too much social commentary out of this game. If he wants these topics explored, I’d recommend he read the comics (Batman: White Knight comes to mind).
@@smugalice6206 fr
I really wasn't expecting the Stanford Prison Experiment to come into this discussion. Definitely subbing.
Glad see you back at it. Can’t wait to see what’s in store.
The best part about Tobey maguire's performance is the difference between Peter and spider-man. It's part of Peter's character.
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@@guizzBRwatch the video
I'm speechless, you did an amazing job with this video (and all your videos.) I cant wait to see what I learn from your thoughts in part 2.
This feels like a real place because of this video lol
Like those old documentaries that get banned for 10 years then randomly released only after the institution has been shut down for malpractice.
1:09:17 you’re not quite old enough to understand and appreciate the significant reference; ‘89 Batman
You're hella underated and i'm barely into the video. It's criminal that you don't have more subscribers, keep on going bro!
Genuinely amazing and incredible video. We do truly need to reframe and reshape how we look and approach the handling of this property and how we approach discussions regarding this game series as a whole.
Wonder Tower was actually a highlight for me. In my most recent run, I realized early that vantage points were cheating me out of fun. The tower is great for using vents, sneaking around corners, etc., especially with Strange acting as a watchman. I do wish the game taught this on its own.
Yeah I rlly like wonder tower as well
Arkham Asylum has probably my favorite combat mechanic which is the throw combo that unfortunately was gone in the sequels. It was just so much fun!
The throw gets reworked into a possible counter animation. In City and origins, the chance of doing this move is entirely random. In Knight, throw counter's occur after precise timing, making them mirror the function of critical strikes. This makes them a higher skill cap, but also means they're not tied to a limited resource. As long as you can execute the timing well, you can throw as much as possible, and don't have to sacrifice more mechanically relevant special moves.
Robin has a throw with a little spin in City. Not sure about Knight
Oh damn. Thought we were done. Pleasantly surprised.
I always noticed how messed up the guards and doctors treat the patients. I never really considered the fact that batman tolerates it. But I'm thinking back to jokers quote. "I just wanted you to drop this grim facade and for once see the world as I see it. Giggling in a corner and bleeding." Basing off what you presented joker wanted batman to see everything in the asylum. To let go of this belief that he stands for justice and just realize what is happening here.
Also if your already tearing apart batman for not caring about the inmates at Arkham. I can only imagine what you say about batman not giving a fuck about jason and replacing him so soon.
Not every game has to be political and have a huge message about mental health, abuse, and psychology, it's just a comic book game tbh
"Not every game has to be political and have a huge message about mental health, abuse, and psychology"
Not every game takes place in a mental Asylum. If you don't want to talk about it, pick a different setting.
"it's just a comic book game tbh"
The entire point of the Arkham series is that comic book games are capable of being art, of being greater than movie tie ins. You can't have your cake and eat it to. If you aspire to being a more serious piece of art, you invite more mature criticism of the world you create.
@@turbonerdo6838 yeah you are right about that but Arkham asylum isn't really an asylum it's more a max security prison and the only reason these characters like croc and others with physical conditions is because this is the highest security place they can go, it's nothing to do with the asylum part for some of them but the whole institution is still called an asylum
You need more credit for this video!
This message needs to be heard by everyone!
Because you’re not just talking about a video game you’re talking about the psychology of the story which everybody can relate and Batman is supposed to be a character where he supposed to have sympathy for the sick that he supposed to help people not just lock up super villains.
I’m surprised you have advertised this video more because this is extremely important for everybody to understand.
And I get it it’s a video game. We shouldn’t really look that deep into it, but I feel like regardless of that. It’s a game that’s representing a lot of things and it takes itself so seriously on it.
Because it takes itself so seriously is the reason why we should fix this game.
If this game was meant to be comical and disregard serious topics in a comedic fashion, then there’s not really a need to fix it because I think at that point it’s designed to be offensive.
The reason why I say we need to fix this game is because there’s a lot of rumors- and so far they’re not just rumors- that rocksteady is gonna remake this game, not remaster, remake.
I don't think game is as great as people think it is but I dunno I don't think there's anything broke enough to be fixed.
Somethings are just mediocre and matter how much spices you add it's not gonna change.
One of the best multi-hour retrospectives out there.
I think batmans best stories and moments in stories are when his set of morals is questioned. Like his brutalization of alberto falcone in dark victory despite him being the victim, joker forcing him to confront the reality that he is like the inmates in a serious house on serious earth, or pretty much all of dark knight returns.
I think you read into Batman's lack of reaction to hearing quincy's last monolouge waaaay too much.
is he tho, because if this was anyother media film or comic batman would 100% comment on it
The intro jingle has become like Pavlovian training to me.
I have never been more focused on a sentence in my life.
I always got confused when I heard the criticism that Batman just takes his aggression out on underprivileged people while ignoring greater societal problems, hoarding his wealth and looking down on the less successful and mentally ill. I wondered where it came from. It’s not in the comics where he’s fairly sympathetic to his foes and unrealistically generous as Bruce Wayne. It’s not even in the Nolan trilogy. There’s a bit of it in the Burton movies, but he’s portrayed as more of an antihero there, so that’s hard to get mad at.
That interpretation I always saw as a “bad take” is totally accurate in most of the Arkham series.
And I’m not sure i heard much of that interpretation talked about until the Arkham games.
Seeing Batman condemn the Asylum or express some guilt would go a long way. I think Sharpe is portrayed as evil, but nothing happens in that regard despite how much evidence is on him.
I can’t wait to hear what you have to say about the rest of the series
Simply a masterpiece. Seen your Arkham Series retrospective. Keep up the good work.
What an amazing and well-articulated video. Needs to be watched by all lovers of the Arkham series
I'm less than a third of the way through, and in at least four instances, you've put words to qualities of the game I'd never hard articulated or discretely thought of before ("moving through water" as the core feeling of freeflow, for one). Can't wait to get to the rest of it tomorrow!
Also, this video arrived much earlier than expected. How in the world have you been so productive? I love to see it!
Glad to hear it! Recently upgraded the ol' PC thanks to Patreon, which is 50% the reason it got done so fast (once I decided to make it), cause the other 50% is having years and years to think it all over. Thanks for watching!
I’m literally so amped for this video. I love the series, I love the long form video essay style, and your voice is actually quite calming to listen to compared to some of the other raspy voiced lisp having folks out there ((: Thanks for all your hard work for an awesome experience for all to enjoy
Comparing real life mental disorders and such to a BATMAN game? Dude, you could have just done a video about Aradale and the topic of mental health. Would have enjoyed watching that.