Yeaahh... 2WD is the ultimate in performance and efficiency, people would be surprised the amount of POWEER that two very little motors can produce when combined and overvolted. So far from experience, two wheel drive generates a lot less heat and much better acceleration. The UBCO 2WD farm bike got two big MAC motors, in this case there's enough power to lose front wheel traction in some occasions (uphill off-road specially). Surprisingly, that doesn't make you lose control at all but actually helps pointing the bike to the right direction in my opinion, I actually LOVED that feeling!! Despiting my ideas of fun 2WD it's recommended to have a bit more POWER at the rear wheel like 60% rear and 40% front (this can be done via programming)Some 2WD decrease front wheel power at higher speeds, some completely switch it off. Some people like the idea of having 2x throttles, one for the front and one for the rear.People have different opinions on what is best, everyone's ride is different, so there's no right or wrong here. *love the outdoor video idea.. audio was actually fantastic for a beach video!
Thanks :-) I was wondering whether it may cause any problems with motors during cruising if the power is not equalized on both wheels but yeah, there shouldn't be.
Hey man I am having trouble trying to accomplish two hub motor, so I got a rear 72v 12000hub motor on my e bike but i want to add a front hub motor maybe like 8000w hub motor and i at the moment I am using a 150a controller to a 48ah lithium Panasonic cell battery, if I add the extra front hub do I need a extra controller or battery or even the voltage analysts, since there are two different hub motor will they miss up my controller ?
I've been Trying to build and ebike for the longest time with NO luck, I'm Super Glad I came across your Channel! My next project I will be trying again Now!
Thank you so much for this video!!! I got me a 2nd motor and battery and was stressing on how and where I'd mount a second throttle and try to somehow link them together by mechanical means. I am SO glad you can simply combine the signal wires! :D THANK YOU!
If I have two separate batteries for the two motors, would I need two throttles? Or could I just hook the throttle power wires to one controller and the signal wire to both controllers?
ebikes.ca carries a throttle splitter cable, or you can make one, just connect both controllers to the same throttle, the problem is not all are wired the same but you have 3 wires, one power, one ground and one signal, as long as you match those, your good to go. But I have seen some guys like to have a throttle on each side.
I'm a big fan of electric bicycles. I bought one two months ago and I love it. But the reason I'm commenting is your location brings back great memories of my past. I've been there on that beach. I ate delicious Gyros wraps there and I went to the night club there near the circle end where you stood at the end of your video. By the way, I've been wondering about two motors for more torque and quicker acceleration. Nice video
Just caught up with your video today because of my interest in building my own ebike. I bought a Sondors Fold ebike last year and am hooked on commuting by ebike. I live in Chicago and we do have a change of seasons here. I'm of the opinion that a two motor bike is more practical plus I want more speed. I'm learning from you and hope to give you an update after completion of my own bike with a photo. Thanks fir your insight, your new friend, Alfredo.
My question is why stop at two motors and add a midmount motor as well? Three! It would be like two people pedaling it, wouldn't it? ( And of course, a real high amp battery).
Wow I've never heard of having two motors for an ebike. I've been considering making my own frame from scratch with my powertig welder. It would be great if I could design it so the batteries are very low to keep the center of gravity down.
Hi. Can you also provide information on how to setup both bafang mid drive and front geared hub with the same technique you have used on this video? Thanks in advance!
Thank you so much for making this video! I've been trying to plan out a Hybrid Moped project, just to boost its speed to work as a daily commuter without violating local laws. But, I failed Circuit Analysis in college soooo this electrical stuff was a bit beyond me 😅 You summed everything up great, though!
Heya Mike.. you can usially filter out the wind noise with what I call the "PB filter" (removes the explosive wind noise when saying P or B into an unprotected mike). Despite the name, it's pretty simple. You just select the part of the audio you wanna filter (you can use audacity. Free and open source) and set an equalizer effect in which you silence the lower frequencies. First 1-2 bars all the way down, the rest gradually go up in a sharp curve spanning no more than 1-3 bars. This filters out the bass. Disruptive wind noise is mostly bass
Best bet is to hook one brake lever up to each controller, so one brake lever cuts power to one controller, then connect the pedal assist to one controller normally while running a jumper from the signal wire of the pedal assist to the second controllers PAS sensor.
Yep. Copenhagen here. Almost no ebikes! On my commute through downtown I´ve rarely seen ebikes apart from the granny type or bewildered tourists on the overly expensive municipally sponsored clunky ebikes. It feels like my BBSHD 52V is VERY exotic in a place where almost 30% of commute trips are on a bike. I´ve NEVER through a ½ year of ebiking been overtaken by another bike (or moped for that matter). I should set up an advanced building shop for our type of ebiking, as it feels not much is going on in DK. Ponder ponder... - And thanks Mica for the heads-up on endless FB on the AliExpress sale 11/11 2016. It just came at the right moment :).
Hi, You will get a 2WD controller 36V/48V both. This controller got two wire for motor, one is back and one is for front and remaining everything is same as your normal kit. Try it!
Oh crap bro, I just found out that you live in Tel Aviv. Man, I pray that you, your people, and neighbors would live in peace and harmony so you could add prosperity to it and grow your business 🙏
Hi Micah. I wanted to ask. If you wanted to put a regenerative system in place, to recharge the battery and perhaps even have a fold out portable 100w solar panel to add more range and charge. Living in Israel you should be able to get a load of extra power. Is this possible to do. Is it feasible or not worth the extra cost.any advice on regenerating systems like the freewheeling types. Look forward to now going through your videos. Awesome 👏 🤙😎🤙
Stick two pedal assist controlled hub motors on a mid mounted e bike for a stealth triple motor machine. So long as the hub motors are capable of freewheeling the operation of the original mid drive motor will be unchanged, but when you pedal the hub motors kick in for extra power and 2wd traction. You can cruise around on the mid drive motor using minimal battery and power up steep hills with all three motors.
Good stuff Micah. As your video is a few years old now, has some of the parts needed become cheaper or more expensive as Ebikes have become more popular? I am a beginner here but I am down! Thanks
I was looking at those, (1000w per wheel), and it would be $400 plus bike and whatever battery you wanted to use). To me, that seems very cheap. Since I'm not worried about weight on an E-bike since its going to be heavy (this wouldn't be like me replacing everything with carbon fiber on my road bike), I could just get a gently used fat bike for $150 (my cousin has one of those, we've thoroughly abused it, and it looks and rides like new, I don't plan on doing ledge drops like I typically do). Seems like $550 plus some high powered LiPo batteries (to keep it moderately light weight) should be able to rip around and have fun!
@@jakegarrett8109 $199 48v 1000w front or rear. Slightly under size rim..still takes a 4" tire. Controllers are cheap- I upgraded 1 with pure sine which is about 25% better. $700 2 kits and a bike. $800 mid mount 48v 1000w. Rear rack mounted 48v 1500w. $1500 for a really nice toy :) www.ebay.com/itm/26-IN-48-Volt-1000W-Electric-Bike-Motor-Fat-Tire-Kit-Front-Wheel-US-Stock/132961352932?hash=item1ef51d3ce4:g:h-kAAOSwiuRcbqM~:rk:13:pf:0
There is one more E-Bike in Florida today. Thanks for the instructional video! You got me thinking. I did not know there was such a thing as 2WD bicycles.
Sir. Was adding more motor. Will give more increase speeds? Example i used 80km ebike motor and i want to add more e bike 80km motor. And is that even possible? I hope i got cleared answer soon.
Finally a sensible understandable guide to doing some rad things for ebikes, thank you very much. Unfortunately we don't have amazon in my country yet or i'd purchase your book right now.
Nice design sketch. It really simplifies the whole process. My question would be concerning over-volting a motor. I have a 37V Bafang rear hub powered by a 37V 17Ah battery pack. Could I sacrifce amps (therefore range) for a higher voltage to gain more of a pick up speed? You mentioned 52V but I guess there could be limitations and risk of over-heating the motor.
Yea, any brushless motor can basically accept any voltage, and thus have an equal change in speed. The issue becomes heat. Most 36V motors can do 48V, and also 52V, pretty easily. If you only had one, and you went up a big hill, you'd be putting more amps and thus more heat through it, so you'd want to just be careful and watch the motor temp to see how high it rises. 2 motors means half the work per motor, so they can handle the abuse better.
Thanks. I tend to try and stick to low assist when hill climbing since I notice how upping the PAS can stress the motor (almost giving it a low vibration feeling).
I am wanting to use two front electric hubs to build a electric car for my grandson, and I plant to make it look like an old ford 1920 model “t” I could definitely use help in what would work best. I am building it so he can grow up with it. For now Dad could ride him around until my grandson can handle it in his future.
Okay your sort of a wild-man of e bike no how. Question : Ariel Rider v2 is on backorder for August. After the warranty is out in a year I want to get 40 to 43 mph out of it for less than a 20 minute sprint... 1000 watt x 2 hub motors (2) 52 volt batts, 23 amp controller, selector switch front an back motor independent or dual. Unlock code 1919 stock. How would you do it. What do i scrap, what do i keep, what do i modify.. Nice video on your all wheel drive bike by the way...
Nice way to get around the single motor rule. could you in theory also have several motors surrounding a central shaft like an old radial engine. 5 small motors producing a large combined power output.
it's crazy out here in the suburbs of Philadelphia I don't see them ever. if anything I see more gas powered bikes. if I had some place to store it I was thinking of doing a hybrid bike rear gas front hub Electric and I'm surprised I haven't seen anything like that yet.
me too. theres a handful of gas bikes and in recent memory only saw 1 cruiser e bike here. maybe i'll have the 2nd :-) I like the idea of a 2x small motor build
sdq sdq It's technically not a hybrid unless the combination is synergistic. An electric and a gas drive on the same bike will reduce each other's performance and efficiency unless modified or initially designed to work together in a way that takes advantage of each system's advantages. A true hybrid arrangement uses excess gas engine power to charge a battery that can contribute power when needed for acceleration or extending range. Cars, relatively speaking, are much better suited to a hybrid setup than are bikes. Cars travel at half their top speed or less. The large engines are required to get the heavy vehicles up to cruising speed quickly. Hybrids can use a smaller, more fuel efficient engine because the electric motor can contribute power during that acceleration phase. When cruising at a steady speed, much less horsepower is necessary, so the engine can also be powering an alternator that is building up a charge in the large traction battery. A bicycle is using all its gas engine power to reach a marginally safe speed in mixed traffic, so has no power to spare to turn an alternator to power the electrical half of a practical hybrid system. Fuel economy is so good already on a gas powered bike that doubling it isn't much of a gain. For a bicycle to be a good candidate for a hybrid powertrain, it would have to be heavier and much more aerodynamic, like a fully enclosed, streamlined, recumbent tandem. Another configuration would be a series hybrid loaded cargo bike with regenerative braking in a stop & go urban environment in which the gas engine was used only to power an appropriately sized alternator to keep a relatively large battery pack topped off. This hybrid arrangement would work well for extending the bike's range rather than increasing performance. An optimized hybrid gas/electric vehicle adjusts contributions from each depending on how much instantaneous power is needed, how much fuel is available, how much battery capacity and state of charge is available, the ratio of power available from each, how much power from the alternator can be efficiently stored (charge rate) etc. Even battery temperature is important since that greatly affects charge rate, capacity and output rate. Expense, complexity, battery deterioration etc. are a few other variables that require consideration in any practical design.
I had a thought...what about the pedal assist? How would that fare with the ebike as well? Would it have to be all 3 wires to one controller, then the other controller just gets the signal, or would it be the same?
Great Work...... You are really filling a fast growing need for eBike info. I remember a couple of years ago when it was very difficult to get info/parts and now we are on the cusp of an eRevolution, Thanks so much for being a facilitator. . . . . . . . //// ?(1) avail of eBike hubs for small wheels (16" & 20")? . . .We ride recumbents and I look forward to adding ePower in next year or so. ( BikeE , Vision R40, Velotechnik Grasshopper ) //// ?(2) Can you charge a lithium too often? or should you let them run down before charging?
I am wanting to do this to my ecotric sportcool fat tire bike you reviewed not to long ago. Would you be able to do a current video on making that bike dual motor?
My plan is to add a 3000w front hub motor to my current 1500w rear hub setup. I'll be adding a second 60v battery for the new motor and connect throttle to both controllers. See any issues here?
When the wind is destroying your audio, try dropping the bass using a (High Pass Filter in your equalizer) This will take out the lows and allow your voice to carry through the video. Or you can drop the EQ ~6Db+/- in the 60-120Hz range in the video editor (I assume it has that capability) Thanks for the diagram. neat setup!
As of today March 2018 we have very few ebikes in Manchester UK. I did your test and 10 out of 10 were pedal bikes. And that was on a major road leading into the city centre.
Sure, but you'd want to make sure your mid drive isn't slower than your rear hub motor. Otherwise it wouldn't be adding any power, it would be the same effect as pedaling slower than the speed you're going, where you might as well not pedal at all since the freewheel is spinning on the rear wheel.
What about using 2 battery packs and the BMS on each to control the max amps and everything? That's how I would do it since I want to draw low nominal voltage and amps from each individual cell anyway. Sure the controllers and thus the throttle might always be offering max power, but the battery won't be giving up too much at one time. Am I missing something obvious?
Hi ebike school. I love your videos and watch them over and over to assist my understanding. You inspired me to do a 2wd small motor conversion with cycle analyst. For. Now I’m using the generic controllers supplied with the kit. The CA does not communicate with the controllers except for throttle input as everything is governed by throttle input to controllers. However I don’t understand how plugging the CA into the remote shunt can provide full functionality. I’ve hit a brick wall with my project. I see you have on your website detailed instructions on how to wire the CA into a generic controller but then what is the 6 pin plug on the shunt for? And how do I perform this and plug in 2 controllers? I hope I have explained my conundrum sufficiently. Any advice would be greatly appreciated Ryan
I want to create an ecycle from scratch. I figure I can cut the frame with my powerplasma cutter and tig weld everything with my everlast welder but I'm lacking some dimensions for the frame to mount the motors and batteries so that they are low to the ground.
Thank you Micah so much for this. I found a kit on Aliexpress for a dual set up for front and rear 500 watt Bafang motors. There is only one controller at 48 volts and 500 watts. I am trying to find the specs for the controller. Can one controller do the job? Is two 500 watts motors through one controller like a 1000 watt motor? A lot of newbie questions. Is this the best place for the questions?
Hi, I'm interested in a 2wd with only 1 controller system. I like your idea but, I would like less bulk. It's theoretically no. BUT it does work but I'm have some minor setbacks.
What are your thoughts on the uni pack power batteries? I just bought a 52v 13ah and so far it's great. I've built my own a few times with your help. Just wondering if you could do a video with one of there Chinese cell batteries. Seems very well built, but I'm no expert.
May be a good upgrade for mine some day and would probably just put a switch in to turn on 2x2 mode when I need it. Some kind of cruse control would be nice too.
Just for curiosity, and for the long distances treckers, could you put a moter that just generates but not for drive on the front wheel to charge as they go or make a trailer with a generator on the wheel?
how do you over voltage your motors? also how would you support your bike to handle higher powers. I want to take 2 1000watt hub motors and have both hooked up and over voltage but I'm not sure how to go about it and how to beef up my bike to handle the high power and high torque. thank you for your videos and insite
This is fine in a straight line, but what about tight bends/corners? Is there any problem with the wheel speed difference? On the sand, the back wheel looked to be kicking out as it pushed against the front.
New to everything involveing e bikes, and I was wondering what the cheapest way to get a lithium battery that could get me at least 15 mile range is? Should I make my own or buy one, if I should buy, where should I buy one? And if I build, what's the cheapest way to make a reliable and safe battery pack?
This is exactly what I need... Dual motor set up. Is it possible to add a 48V 1000 watt front wheel hub motor 26" x 4.0 fat tire bike? As my current ebike is 48V 500 watt rear motor with PAS. I find it difficult going up hills in my neighborhood, as I haul my two children in a Thule Coaster XT. Now, is it possible to add a conversion kit to the front? Can the front wheel also be connected to PAS as the rear wheel is already set up. I guess, id have two displays on my handle bar. What if I don't connect PAS, and only use thumb throttle only when I need the extra help going up the hills. I currently use PAS 2, and sometimes 5. So I guess it be nice to have PAS set up on the front hub, but now how do I go about connecting it to a pre-existing ebike setup. Any thoughts or ideas or sources that would help me accomplish this goal would be much appreciated.
Ok legal and traction issues, perfectly clear but what about power efficiency ? I assume 2 geared motors must must be less efficient than 1 power equivalent gearless motor . Do you know any serious comparison between gear and gearless hubs ? thanks! great channel
Mica you are awesome if you don't have a phd in this battery tech you should be given one very nice instruction and you cover everything ebike and battery build thank you very much very very good don't stop looking forward to more John Lilley thanks
Its said that these electric motors will still get moisture inside and eventually rust up and cause motor to go bad, for the amount of time you've used your bike have you ever opened up your motors to check the conditions of internals, or have you did an internal water proofing method.
I have a question for you. In another video, you said that you can overvolt your motor but you have to lower the current because the motor is going to get hot. Now I see that you over clock both voltage and current.
Micah great vid. Other than the traction improvement (2wd) is having 2 motors more greedy on the battery front even if you lowered the amps draw. So does this reduce the range? Even as you say each motor helps the other motor out. So my question is 1 larger motor or 2 smaller motors?
Great information and thanks for sharing. The "all-wheel-drive" advantages are irrefutable - and must be GREAT FUN to ride! I can see where it would be very useful to have the option to readily switch/select either only FWD, or RWD, or AWD. Can you please show and explain how this could be readily optioned? With Thanks
I think you might run into torque vectoring problems trying to power both front wheels. You might do better with a larger motor on the back wheel or going with a mid-drive motor.
grate video thanks for the insight. I have one question with you adding an extra motor how has your range been hindered have you done any test with just the one motor compered to both ?
mike nice vid , still missing a few parts , how do you connect your pas sensor , and your display , or you dont need it ? my tought was when i use your setup , without cycle analist , i dont have , how does the controllerS know in which speed or pas lvl both wheels or both controllers are , since you only use power and throttle of 1 controller
I'm trying to setup my e bike to get to work but don't really want to use a lead acid battery. Would love to learn to build my own battery. The old batteries I have are lead acid but I'm not sure what to do.
Could you please describe E-Bike Hub Sizes. What bike frames are suitable for say Bafon Hub motors? What Frame measurements do you need for 4 Inch Fat Tires? What E-Hubs are required for 4inch fat tires? What measurements do E-Hubs require? Do they come in different size widths?
Great vids!!! I was a trail rider on gas bikes since young (67 now) and this has opened up a new chapter for me! I have a question pertaining to the battery (By The Way I have your books); in this vid you say a stronger single battery. I assume you’re running 48v because of your flavor of controllers. Say if I want to spend an afternoon in the woods and still have power left over, what capacity battery should I be looking for?
I was wondering how I could do this and you explained it well, and quickly. Thanks.
OR... you could go into the settings on a standard lcd controller and reduce the maximum current draw there! Much cheaper
@Myles Grant godamn scammer
Now add a mid drive
Yeah, soon three motors ebikes...with torque vectoring etc...etc
Soon
👍
✌️
😇
Add a 4cycle go full hybrid
And a 80cc petrol engine make a hybrid
🤣
LoL
Yeaahh... 2WD is the ultimate in performance and efficiency, people would be surprised the amount of POWEER that two very little motors can produce when combined and overvolted. So far from experience, two wheel drive generates a lot less heat and much better acceleration.
The UBCO 2WD farm bike got two big MAC motors, in this case there's enough power to lose front wheel traction in some occasions (uphill off-road specially). Surprisingly, that doesn't make you lose control at all but actually helps pointing the bike to the right direction in my opinion, I actually LOVED that feeling!!
Despiting my ideas of fun 2WD it's recommended to have a bit more POWER at the rear wheel like 60% rear and 40% front (this can be done via programming)Some 2WD decrease front wheel power at higher speeds, some completely switch it off.
Some people like the idea of having 2x throttles, one for the front and one for the rear.People have different opinions on what is best, everyone's ride is different, so there's no right or wrong here.
*love the outdoor video idea.. audio was actually fantastic for a beach video!
Thanks :-) I was wondering whether it may cause any problems with motors during cruising if the power is not equalized on both wheels but yeah, there shouldn't be.
Hey man I am having trouble trying to accomplish two hub motor, so I got a rear 72v 12000hub motor on my e bike but i want to add a front hub motor maybe like 8000w hub motor and i at the moment I am using a 150a controller to a 48ah lithium Panasonic cell battery, if I add the extra front hub do I need a extra controller or battery or even the voltage analysts, since there are two different hub motor will they miss up my controller ?
How much average charge duration do you get with 2wd ebikes? Longer using 2 seperate battery packs or with one larger pack? Thanks.
I was actually thinking of building it with two throtles,each for an engine.
two 1000w motors.
What about hill or trail climbing with 2WD?
I've been Trying to build and ebike for the longest time with NO luck, I'm Super Glad I came across your Channel! My next project I will be trying again Now!
Thank you so much for this video!!! I got me a 2nd motor and battery and was stressing on how and where I'd mount a second throttle and try to somehow link them together by mechanical means. I am SO glad you can simply combine the signal wires! :D
THANK YOU!
If I have two separate batteries for the two motors, would I need two throttles? Or could I just hook the throttle power wires to one controller and the signal wire to both controllers?
ebikes.ca carries a throttle splitter cable, or you can make one, just connect both controllers to the same throttle, the problem is not all are wired the same but you have 3 wires, one power, one ground and one signal, as long as you match those, your good to go.
But I have seen some guys like to have a throttle on each side.
Micah how would one go about connecting the Pedal assist with the two motors? Can you splice them to each controller with no signal loss??
I'm a big fan of electric bicycles. I bought one two months ago and I love it. But the reason I'm commenting is your location brings back great memories of my past. I've been there on that beach. I ate delicious Gyros wraps there and I went to the night club there near the circle end where you stood at the end of your video. By the way, I've been wondering about two motors for more torque and quicker acceleration. Nice video
Awesome!!! Never realized you coukd use 2 controllers on one display. Def worth making an updated video with this method
I love the way you illustrate your process
Just caught up with your video today because of my interest in building my own ebike. I bought a Sondors Fold ebike last year and am hooked on commuting by ebike. I live in Chicago and we do have a change of seasons here. I'm of the opinion that a two motor bike is more practical plus I want more speed. I'm learning from you and hope to give you an update after completion of my own bike with a photo. Thanks fir your insight, your new friend,
Alfredo.
My question is why stop at two motors and add a midmount motor as well? Three! It would be like two people pedaling it, wouldn't it? ( And of course, a real high amp battery).
Wow I've never heard of having two motors for an ebike. I've been considering making my own frame from scratch with my powertig welder. It would be great if I could design it so the batteries are very low to keep the center of gravity down.
Ever get around to it? If you have access to a welder, make a beefy connection for torque arms.
Hi.
Can you also provide information on how to setup both bafang mid drive and front geared hub with the same technique you have used on this video?
Thanks in advance!
Thank you so much for making this video! I've been trying to plan out a Hybrid Moped project, just to boost its speed to work as a daily commuter without violating local laws. But, I failed Circuit Analysis in college soooo this electrical stuff was a bit beyond me 😅 You summed everything up great, though!
Yep your wiring diagram does look much more simpler.
Someday I hope to build an e-bike, I'm glad I found your channel!
Martin Taylor are you serious its like so simple
Heya Mike.. you can usially filter out the wind noise with what I call the "PB filter" (removes the explosive wind noise when saying P or B into an unprotected mike). Despite the name, it's pretty simple. You just select the part of the audio you wanna filter (you can use audacity. Free and open source) and set an equalizer effect in which you silence the lower frequencies. First 1-2 bars all the way down, the rest gradually go up in a sharp curve spanning no more than 1-3 bars. This filters out the bass. Disruptive wind noise is mostly bass
This is great, thanks! What about connecting one set of brakes and one pedal-assist-sensor to 2 controllers? Thanks!
Best bet is to hook one brake lever up to each controller, so one brake lever cuts power to one controller, then connect the pedal assist to one controller normally while running a jumper from the signal wire of the pedal assist to the second controllers PAS sensor.
On this specific bike, what battery did you use and what is your range on it?
Yep. Copenhagen here. Almost no ebikes!
On my commute through downtown I´ve rarely seen ebikes apart from the granny type or bewildered tourists on the overly expensive municipally sponsored clunky ebikes. It feels like my BBSHD 52V is VERY exotic in a place where almost 30% of commute trips are on a bike. I´ve NEVER through a ½ year of ebiking been overtaken by another bike (or moped for that matter). I should set up an advanced building shop for our type of ebiking, as it feels not much is going on in DK. Ponder ponder...
- And thanks Mica for the heads-up on endless FB on the AliExpress sale 11/11 2016. It just came at the right moment :).
Tthank you for your simple explanation of the two motor integration. Very well done.
Hi, You will get a 2WD controller 36V/48V both. This controller got two wire for motor, one is back and one is for front and remaining everything is same as your normal kit. Try it!
You will be able to make a video where you show how to connect a standard ebike monitor to two controllers?
Oh crap bro, I just found out that you live in Tel Aviv. Man, I pray that you, your people, and neighbors would live in peace and harmony so you could add prosperity to it and grow your business 🙏
Hi Micah. I wanted to ask. If you wanted to put a regenerative system in place, to recharge the battery and perhaps even have a fold out portable 100w solar panel to add more range and charge. Living in Israel you should be able to get a load of extra power. Is this possible to do. Is it feasible or not worth the extra cost.any advice on regenerating systems like the freewheeling types. Look forward to now going through your videos. Awesome 👏 🤙😎🤙
On your two-wheel drive bicycle could you use one bigger controller and then spliced the motors together?
Hi Micah, great video. Could you please tell us how to include an LED or LCD display other than CA? At the very least a volt meter.
I've been following you for years , hope everythings good in this difficult times .
Stick two pedal assist controlled hub motors on a mid mounted e bike for a stealth triple motor machine.
So long as the hub motors are capable of freewheeling the operation of the original mid drive motor will be unchanged, but when you pedal the hub motors kick in for extra power and 2wd traction.
You can cruise around on the mid drive motor using minimal battery and power up steep hills with all three motors.
Good stuff Micah. As your video is a few years old now, has some of the parts needed become cheaper or more expensive as Ebikes have become more popular? I am a beginner here but I am down! Thanks
My dream bike: 2x2 full suspension 1000w fat E bike ... snow, sand, mud, uphill, downhill... no matter what!
High Power Cycle in Cali
I was looking at those, (1000w per wheel), and it would be $400 plus bike and whatever battery you wanted to use). To me, that seems very cheap. Since I'm not worried about weight on an E-bike since its going to be heavy (this wouldn't be like me replacing everything with carbon fiber on my road bike), I could just get a gently used fat bike for $150 (my cousin has one of those, we've thoroughly abused it, and it looks and rides like new, I don't plan on doing ledge drops like I typically do). Seems like $550 plus some high powered LiPo batteries (to keep it moderately light weight) should be able to rip around and have fun!
I kit built, from ebay a 48v x2 1000w fat tire bike..No suspension(with 4 inch tires- not really needed). Its awesome :)
@@jakegarrett8109 $199 48v 1000w front or rear. Slightly under size rim..still takes a 4" tire. Controllers are cheap- I upgraded 1 with pure sine which is about 25% better. $700 2 kits and a bike. $800 mid mount 48v 1000w. Rear rack mounted 48v 1500w. $1500 for a really nice toy :) www.ebay.com/itm/26-IN-48-Volt-1000W-Electric-Bike-Motor-Fat-Tire-Kit-Front-Wheel-US-Stock/132961352932?hash=item1ef51d3ce4:g:h-kAAOSwiuRcbqM~:rk:13:pf:0
One kit had a right hand throttle grip, second kit I used a thumb throttle on the left side(turbo). :)
There is one more E-Bike in Florida today. Thanks for the instructional video! You got me thinking. I did not know there was such a thing as 2WD bicycles.
Sir. Was adding more motor. Will give more increase speeds? Example i used 80km ebike motor and i want to add more e bike 80km motor. And is that even possible? I hope i got cleared answer soon.
Does this setup include assisted-pedaling or it's just the throttle ?
The Motors you use look great and very discrete what motors are they? What's the best setup to build a discrete ebike?
Really well done video! I thought it was hilarious when you picked up the bike and both wheels spun. It was like instant cred.
Very informative video. Can I add a front wheel motor to a bike with a centre drive 36 v motor?
can I hook up a second motor up to a single power source
What kind of controller or setup I'd need to recuperate energy, to charge batteries on downhills or stops?
I wondered if such a thing was possible, not that I'm going to do it, for now I'm quite happy with just a normal 1kw rear hub motor setup.
Finally a sensible understandable guide to doing some rad things for ebikes, thank you very much. Unfortunately we don't have amazon in my country yet or i'd purchase your book right now.
Nice design sketch. It really simplifies the whole process. My question would be concerning over-volting a motor. I have a 37V Bafang rear hub powered by a 37V 17Ah battery pack. Could I sacrifce amps (therefore range) for a higher voltage to gain more of a pick up speed? You mentioned 52V but I guess there could be limitations and risk of over-heating the motor.
Yea, any brushless motor can basically accept any voltage, and thus have an equal change in speed. The issue becomes heat. Most 36V motors can do 48V, and also 52V, pretty easily. If you only had one, and you went up a big hill, you'd be putting more amps and thus more heat through it, so you'd want to just be careful and watch the motor temp to see how high it rises. 2 motors means half the work per motor, so they can handle the abuse better.
Thanks. I tend to try and stick to low assist when hill climbing since I notice how upping the PAS can stress the motor (almost giving it a low vibration feeling).
Can you use two different size batteries and connect them independantly each motor (so dual mottor) and use one throttle to control dual motor system.
Watch this video and you’ll find the answer for your question 🤦♂️🤣🤣
Great video....very informative....what battery would you use to power both motors? You said use a bigger battery but what exactly? Thank you.
Thks...you a lot bout volts, etc...bout how is the speed and how long would the batteries last
And how much would that cost
I am wanting to use two front electric hubs to build a electric car for my grandson, and I plant to make it look like an old ford 1920 model “t” I could definitely use help in what would work best. I am building it so he can grow up with it. For now Dad could ride him around until my grandson can handle it in his future.
Okay your sort of a wild-man of e bike no how. Question : Ariel Rider v2 is on backorder for August. After the warranty is out in a year I want to get 40 to 43 mph out of it for less than a 20 minute sprint... 1000 watt x 2 hub motors (2) 52 volt batts, 23 amp controller, selector switch front an back motor independent or dual. Unlock code 1919 stock. How would you do it. What do i scrap, what do i keep, what do i modify.. Nice video on your all wheel drive bike by the way...
Nice way to get around the single motor rule. could you in theory also have several motors surrounding a central shaft like an old radial engine. 5 small motors producing a large combined power output.
it's crazy out here in the suburbs of Philadelphia I don't see them ever. if anything I see more gas powered bikes. if I had some place to store it I was thinking of doing a hybrid bike rear gas front hub Electric and I'm surprised I haven't seen anything like that yet.
me too. theres a handful of gas bikes and in recent memory only saw 1 cruiser e bike here. maybe i'll have the 2nd :-) I like the idea of a 2x small motor build
gas bike die off ? it wont unless there's no gas anymore , but a hybrid might be possible
sdq sdq
It's technically not a hybrid unless the combination is synergistic. An electric and a gas drive on the same bike will reduce each other's performance and efficiency unless modified or initially designed to work together in a way that takes advantage of each system's advantages. A true hybrid arrangement uses excess gas engine power to charge a battery that can contribute power when needed for acceleration or extending range. Cars, relatively speaking, are much better suited to a hybrid setup than are bikes. Cars travel at half their top speed or less. The large engines are required to get the heavy vehicles up to cruising speed quickly. Hybrids can use a smaller, more fuel efficient engine because the electric motor can contribute power during that acceleration phase. When cruising at a steady speed, much less horsepower is necessary, so the engine can also be powering an alternator that is building up a charge in the large traction battery.
A bicycle is using all its gas engine power to reach a marginally safe speed in mixed traffic, so has no power to spare to turn an alternator to power the electrical half of a practical hybrid system. Fuel economy is so good already on a gas powered bike that doubling it isn't much of a gain. For a bicycle to be a good candidate for a hybrid powertrain, it would have to be heavier and much more aerodynamic, like a fully enclosed, streamlined, recumbent tandem. Another configuration would be a series hybrid loaded cargo bike with regenerative braking in a stop & go urban environment in which the gas engine was used only to power an appropriately sized alternator to keep a relatively large battery pack topped off. This hybrid arrangement would work well for extending the bike's range rather than increasing performance. An optimized hybrid gas/electric vehicle adjusts contributions from each depending on how much instantaneous power is needed, how much fuel is available, how much battery capacity and state of charge is available, the ratio of power available from each, how much power from the alternator can be efficiently stored (charge rate) etc. Even battery temperature is important since that greatly affects charge rate, capacity and output rate. Expense, complexity, battery deterioration etc. are a few other variables that require consideration in any practical design.
After 2 years of riding my ebike in the Phoenix area, I finally saw another ebike a month ago. I"ve seen 4-5 gas powered bikes though (ugh).
I had a thought...what about the pedal assist? How would that fare with the ebike as well? Would it have to be all 3 wires to one controller, then the other controller just gets the signal, or would it be the same?
Once again a fantastic well informing video, you make it all look so easy, and i am sure it will be.
Cheers from the land down under
Brian
Do you have a test video on this, showing the performance in challenging terrain?
Great Work...... You are really filling a fast growing need for eBike info. I remember a couple of years ago when it was very difficult to get info/parts and now we are on the cusp of an eRevolution, Thanks so much for being a facilitator. . . . . . . . //// ?(1) avail of eBike hubs for small wheels (16" & 20")? . . .We ride recumbents and I look forward to adding ePower in next year or so. ( BikeE , Vision R40, Velotechnik Grasshopper ) //// ?(2) Can you charge a lithium too often? or should you let them run down before charging?
I am wanting to do this to my ecotric sportcool fat tire bike you reviewed not to long ago. Would you be able to do a current video on making that bike dual motor?
My plan is to add a 3000w front hub motor to my current 1500w rear hub setup. I'll be adding a second 60v battery for the new motor and connect throttle to both controllers. See any issues here?
I have only seen 3 ebikes in Orlando, but were looking to change that
When the wind is destroying your audio, try dropping the bass using a (High Pass Filter in your equalizer) This will take out the lows and allow your voice to carry through the video. Or you can drop the EQ ~6Db+/- in the 60-120Hz range in the video editor (I assume it has that capability) Thanks for the diagram. neat setup!
Sounds good but would it be better with pedal assist motor on there as well
As of today March 2018 we have very few ebikes in Manchester UK. I did your test and 10 out of 10 were pedal bikes. And that was on a major road leading into the city centre.
Another informative video that respects my time. You are a hero
great video! Can you add a 3rd mid drive to the bike and increment the power?
Sure, but you'd want to make sure your mid drive isn't slower than your rear hub motor. Otherwise it wouldn't be adding any power, it would be the same effect as pedaling slower than the speed you're going, where you might as well not pedal at all since the freewheel is spinning on the rear wheel.
What about using 2 battery packs and the BMS on each to control the max amps and everything? That's how I would do it since I want to draw low nominal voltage and amps from each individual cell anyway. Sure the controllers and thus the throttle might always be offering max power, but the battery won't be giving up too much at one time. Am I missing something obvious?
Can you route a PAS sensor to both (similar to the throttle setup) or can you only connect a PAS to one?
I love your videos, especially this one. Is it possible to modify a bike like the rad mini or the igo fat folding to a 2 wheel drive?
Nice demo. What motors are you using?
These are Q100h motors.
Hi ebike school. I love your videos and watch them over and over to assist my understanding.
You inspired me to do a 2wd small motor conversion with cycle analyst. For. Now I’m using the generic controllers supplied with the kit. The CA does not communicate with the controllers except for throttle input as everything is governed by throttle input to controllers. However I don’t understand how plugging the CA into the remote shunt can provide full functionality.
I’ve hit a brick wall with my project.
I see you have on your website detailed instructions on how to wire the CA into a generic controller but then what is the 6 pin plug on the shunt for? And how do I perform this and plug in 2 controllers?
I hope I have explained my conundrum sufficiently.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Ryan
Also can I use regen if my controller does not have regen input?
Is there any way to use generators to keep.your battery topped up while riding so one could go further and fast at the same time
I want to create an ecycle from scratch. I figure I can cut the frame with my powerplasma cutter and tig weld everything with my everlast welder but I'm lacking some dimensions for the frame to mount the motors and batteries so that they are low to the ground.
Thank you Micah so much for this. I found a kit on Aliexpress for a dual set up for front and rear 500 watt Bafang motors. There is only one controller at 48 volts and 500 watts. I am trying to find the specs for the controller. Can one controller do the job? Is two 500 watts motors through one controller like a 1000 watt motor? A lot of newbie questions. Is this the best place for the questions?
Hi, I'm interested in a 2wd with only 1 controller system. I like your idea but, I would like less bulk. It's theoretically no. BUT it does work but I'm have some minor setbacks.
What are your thoughts on the uni pack power batteries? I just bought a 52v 13ah and so far it's great. I've built my own a few times with your help. Just wondering if you could do a video with one of there Chinese cell batteries. Seems very well built, but I'm no expert.
May be a good upgrade for mine some day and would probably just put a switch in to turn on 2x2 mode when I need it. Some kind of cruse control would be nice too.
What size battery are you using and how many miles do you get per charge. How long does it take to charge your setup?
Thanks for. The video
Would it work if your front wheel has a direct drive motor instead of the hub motor ?
Just for curiosity, and for the long distances treckers, could you put a moter that just generates but not for drive on the front wheel to charge as they go or make a trailer with a generator on the wheel?
Please Do a video on how to make the battery pack of this ebike. it would be a great help. thanks
Check my other videos, tons of DIY battery videos
how do you over voltage your motors? also how would you support your bike to handle higher powers. I want to take 2 1000watt hub motors and have both hooked up and over voltage but I'm not sure how to go about it and how to beef up my bike to handle the high power and high torque. thank you for your videos and insite
This is fine in a straight line, but what about tight bends/corners? Is there any problem with the wheel speed difference? On the sand, the back wheel looked to be kicking out as it pushed against the front.
You didn't talk about charging the 2 motors can you cover that can you charge with one battery charger for both or or do you need 2 chargers
New to everything involveing e bikes, and I was wondering what the cheapest way to get a lithium battery that could get me at least 15 mile range is? Should I make my own or buy one, if I should buy, where should I buy one? And if I build, what's the cheapest way to make a reliable and safe battery pack?
This is exactly what I need... Dual motor set up. Is it possible to add a 48V 1000 watt front wheel hub motor 26" x 4.0 fat tire bike? As my current ebike is 48V 500 watt rear motor with PAS. I find it difficult going up hills in my neighborhood, as I haul my two children in a Thule Coaster XT. Now, is it possible to add a conversion kit to the front? Can the front wheel also be connected to PAS as the rear wheel is already set up. I guess, id have two displays on my handle bar. What if I don't connect PAS, and only use thumb throttle only when I need the extra help going up the hills. I currently use PAS 2, and sometimes 5. So I guess it be nice to have PAS set up on the front hub, but now how do I go about connecting it to a pre-existing ebike setup. Any thoughts or ideas or sources that would help me accomplish this goal would be much appreciated.
Ok legal and traction issues, perfectly clear but what about power efficiency ? I assume 2 geared motors must must be less efficient than 1 power equivalent gearless motor . Do you know any serious comparison between gear and gearless hubs ? thanks! great channel
I think I need to use different motors for front and rear. How much more complicated?
Mica you are awesome if you don't have a phd in this battery tech you should be given one very nice instruction and you cover everything ebike and battery build thank you very much very very good don't stop looking forward to more John Lilley thanks
Its said that these electric motors will still get moisture inside and eventually rust up and cause motor to go bad, for the amount of time you've used your bike have you ever opened up your motors to check the conditions of internals, or have you did an internal water proofing method.
I have a question for you.
In another video, you said that you can overvolt your motor but you have to lower the current because the motor is going to get hot.
Now I see that you over clock both voltage and current.
Micah great vid. Other than the traction improvement (2wd) is having 2 motors more greedy on the battery front even if you lowered the amps draw. So does this reduce the range? Even as you say each motor helps the other motor out. So my question is 1 larger motor or 2 smaller motors?
Great information and thanks for sharing. The "all-wheel-drive" advantages are irrefutable - and must be GREAT FUN to ride! I can see where it would be very useful to have the option to readily switch/select either only FWD, or RWD, or AWD. Can you please show and explain how this could be readily optioned? With Thanks
Can you run a hub motor in the front and a mid-motor the same way
Hi there hope your still monitoring this but do think this would work on a two front wheel drive on a recumbent trike
I think you might run into torque vectoring problems trying to power both front wheels. You might do better with a larger motor on the back wheel or going with a mid-drive motor.
grate video thanks for the insight. I have one question with you adding an extra motor how has your range been hindered have you done any test with just the one motor compered to both ?
mike nice vid , still missing a few parts , how do you connect your pas sensor , and your display , or you dont need it ? my tought was when i use your setup , without cycle analist , i dont have , how does the controllerS know in which speed or pas lvl both wheels or both controllers are , since you only use power and throttle of 1 controller
how do you manage with waterproofing ? or don't you ride in the rain.
The 350W hubmotor link no longer works. Was it direct drive or geared? Thanks
Did you find out? I'm Al's trying to known that
Geared motors. If it was direct drive it would look much larger that the motors in the video
Do you have an opinion about using a generator (towed?) to supply power (like Chevrolet has done) with a small battery?
When do you pedal on a ebike? Is it harder than normal bike?
I'm trying to setup my e bike to get to work but don't really want to use a lead acid battery. Would love to learn to build my own battery. The old batteries I have are lead acid but I'm not sure what to do.
Could you please describe E-Bike Hub Sizes. What bike frames are suitable for say Bafon Hub motors? What Frame measurements do you need for 4 Inch Fat Tires? What E-Hubs are required for 4inch fat tires? What measurements do E-Hubs require? Do they come in different size widths?
Great vids!!!
I was a trail rider on gas bikes since young (67 now) and this has opened up a new chapter for me!
I have a question pertaining to the battery (By The Way I have your books); in this vid you say a stronger single battery. I assume you’re running 48v because of your flavor of controllers. Say if I want to spend an afternoon in the woods and still have power left over, what capacity battery should I be looking for?