Your approach to this setup is so logical and well thought out, especially after having the front end failure. Necessity is the mother of invention. Congratulations on a personal masterpiece!
I was thinking about this today, and knew someone out there had already done it the way I was imagining. And here you are! Thank you for sharing your rationale and real world experience on this design.
100% agree. I’m currently building a dual hub motor off road bike with dual suspension. I want that acceleration for off road trails, no need for high top speed. Controlling both motors independently is a must for off road mud/hills/etc.
Beautiful build yes separate throttles are much better it eliminate un necessary wheel spin you can start the bike moving first before engaging the front drive
You gave a clear explanation as to why separation of the system is a plus in many ways. The most important/enjoyable thing is you made it your own. *CUSTOM*
I use the dual throttles in exactly the same way and would never link them. Just the other day going over a narrow wooden foot bridge the front wheel spun like crazy due to green moss on the wood. I instantly let off the front throttle but kept the back one on to drive me forward, it just works. 👍👍
@@sxiong13 But why would you want to turn off the front motor? It's then not AWD. If you have the front motor turned on and they are linked then to cut power to the front wheel if it's spinning you have to cut power to both motors. You have so much more flexibility with independent systems, it's like a manual car vs automatic when it comes to clutch control and gear selection.
I've been following your project closely, and I've been waiting for this video. I am amazed with how powerful the bike is. Congratulations. It's a one-of-a-kind machine, and it's really cool. I can definitely see the advantages you are talking about and your reasoning makes a lot of sense! The biggest disadvantage I see is that if you are not running the front motor simultaniously with the rear, you have to overcompensate with the back motor to overcome the internal mechanical resistance of the front motor, leading to harder power draw on the rear battery. Since the front motor has a smaller battery that will run out quicker, the rear motor will have to over compensate once it runs out. Linking two batteries and running both motors through one controller would overcome that issue since you would always be using both. Obviously, then you wouldn't have the advatages that you talked about. Of course, you can't really have it both ways without having a switch.
Dude you know I put 2 motor on my bike because of you. Because you show us your experience. Now I installed a mid drive bafang 1000w on my bike last week to add to them. 3 motors. Lol! It's rainy here so I waiting the sun to make video to how powerful it is.
wow I had to watch this video because I kitted out and made my own bike just like how you set up yours. some off your ideas and reasons for putting this one together is the same as mine. I am not crazy after-all I am here in the UK and someone in the USA think and do things like I do we are indeed connected. many thanks for this post.
I've been wanting to do this on my bike. I'm glad I came across this video. I like your set up. Now I know which direction I'm going with my project. Thanks for posting this video.
Hello from Ireland. I've been checking out a lot of e-bike channels because I'm pondering about getting a red rover 6 plus, but I've noticed your voice sounded incredibly familiar and then it hit me .....Bob Ross. You're a cool dude with a cool suiting voice and your knowledge on ebikes has been is second to none. Now, I'm going to put you on a playlist and listen to you falling asleep, not that you're boring....but that voice.😁👍
One thing that comes to my mind is that if you are using both hands for each throttle control you have less "grip" on the Bicycle handlebars which could be dangerous in case of quick move.
Thoughts on 3.0a. Link you batteries and controllers in parallel would limit the voltage sag and increase range. Using 2 thumb throttles next to each other so you can fat-thumb one, the other, or both all with same thumb.
I've been thinking of doing exactly this. I have a 1kw store bought ebike and would love to add a front kit. Since the front wheel doesn't need as much power as the rear, maybe 500w would be sufficient for the front? Also not looking for max top speed, rather hill climb, accel, snow etc. Cool beans!
Yes this is the way too go. You inspired me too build my bike. I built my ebike on a Beachcomber style bike it has a 3000w rear hub motor on 72v 80a battery triangle in the frame, right hand twist throttle, 2000w front hub motor 52v 45a battery mounted on top of frame like a motorcycle gas tank, left hand thumb throttle and a bb02b 750w mid drive 48v 30a battery on back rack using pas. This is how I commute and I love the way you can use the power in unlimited combinations and range. The torqky mid drive can be used for the hubs to regen the batterys too. Mid drives and hubs are both great and used in combinations can work hand and hand. The key is to use separate batterys for each system or have a system all the same voltage and use a battery that can provide enough Amps to run multiple motors without pulling too many Amps from your battery. And remember... You are the creator's creation creating the creation's, For the creator created creations too creat. So Create Creator! The possibility's are endless. Again thanks for yhe advice and inspiration.
My build has the 2000W rear wheel motor on pedal assist & linked to the display that controls the power mode from 1 to 5. Then the 1500W front wheel motor is switched & runs off of the throttle, so I have AWD on demand for hills & max power, which is fun! The only problem I've encountered so far is having to swap to steel front forks as alloy tend to break too easily.
Great points, I never thought of it this way. I got my Ariel Rider Kepler on Tuesday I would like your thoughts on that bike as well. Not for me because I know it awesome but more folk listen to you than me so... I also would like to know your thoughts of doing an AWD setup on the Kepler.
Built my own dual 1000watt system...I love the throttle arrangement. Left thumb, front wheel turbo mode lol :) She is heavy but the 4 inch tire on 3.5 rims is plenty durable.
thats the best and ideal concept both independent power but one thing also to consider that the watts of the rear wheel is higher than the front, that will provide tha safety of the bike riding with both wheel power
Those rear racks with the built-in battery holder can hold a really big battery and certain batteries made for that rack setup the larger rectangular ones some include a tail light
I can't believe how clean you have everything with all the wires ,and duel everything good job citizen ,hell yeah I want one . I need to upgrade my brakes too full hydro like my other bike . Once you have those your spoiled and mechanical brakes just doesn't do it for ya anymore .👍👍
It is better, because it is basically intelligent AWD, like you can decide whenever the AWD to kick in, and at which level. This is crucial when go off road, it is like you can select variable power distribution on 4x4 car system
great introduction. just wondering what kind of display and controller you are using because almost all colored displays are for bafang mid drive setups and it is hard to find. thx
Like the set up was thinking of going this way as well. Only need both fortake off and hills. And seen others where the front spins on take off which would make it underivable on wet roads don’t want my front tire slipping
Almost done upgrading mine from the ebikeling front motor to a bafang geared motor, only hold up is i can’t get the brake rotor off the ebikeling, 3 of the 6 screws just will not budge, gave up and ordered a new rotor. I laced the motor into the rim myself, wasn’t that hard, watched a couple of youtube videos, took about 2 hours.
Totally AGREE!! Front wheel spin can be deadly in a turn, and a lot other situations. I am curious, if you could try doing a-turns on the road using front wheel drive with generous power, how the bike handles. Then try the same thing in rear wheel drive
I would have been concerned about one motor fighting with the other, but I guess it is no problem. Am I correct that when one motor pushes faster than the other, the slower motor just glides as in neutral? Or does it put up resistance?
Seriously wish I could afford adding a 52v front motor to my Magicycle, it would be a beast. Two questions; Why oh why haven't you added full hydraulic brakes? it's so easy. Second, do you think the 52 tooth crank makes enough of a difference to upgrade? Thanks, love the Tubes, keep up the great work,
I have hydraulic brakes ordered just waiting for them to arrive, and the 53 tooth chainring certainly adds a lot of feeling in the pedals at higher speeds, I like it better but it's not a must have
I get 30% more range when I run my motors independently without pedal assist. The pedal assist will make the rear motor run all the time and end up with less range. My front battery will recharge 0.1v in a 0.25 mile if I'm going over 19mph on rear motor, if I go 35mph it recharge way faster 0.2v in 0.25 mile. If I'm running just the front motor it will recharge the rear battery. This is how I got more range.
Hey citizen, love your thinking! I have a himiway, I got a bike with a ebikling1000W on rear ,could I respoke it to the front wheel? Then I can do this too.I ride to work everyday and the wind and hills slow me down!
Hiya some good points,we went a tad more full on designing our bikes for our around australia trip we use 2 cycle analysts v3s with multiple programs setup a left and right twist throttle the left we reversed the insides ,but we have controller that manages many combinations of switching so left throttle can be a regen throttle or front wheel throttle,or can use one throttle with variable power splits front and back via dital pot and digital buttons,and they are can bus intergrated with 2 sabvoton foc controllers unlocked versions allowing insane accelaration and speed,then reason we did it this way is that we can run the front motor with certa9in flux weekening settings that actually allow us to recoup small amounts of regen from the rear while in the right conditions,we found in best conditions we can add 20 to 25 % in distance or back into battery ,should allow us to get over 300kilometers per day without having to pedal ,the pedals wont be by chain,theyll be ride by wire generators ,and runs back through cycle analysts shunts into batteries ,unfortunatly thanks to covid ,were haveing trouble finiding someone to make all the cnc parts for the generators,
this has now been over a year and half in research and building,and designing 3m liquid cooling for battery ,the controllers and motors ,all the cells are fully submerged in liquid as are the controllers,we were able to make the set up 100% fire proof and the cells never raise more than a few degrees even when charging battery packs at 80 to 100 amps continuous ,we arnt going to sell these bikes but well make all the designs and software available for free to anyone that wants them
some of the systems we designed we all acessories and lighting systems, abs and stability control, wheelie control unit, custom dash transmiter unit that sends the data to android phone running torque pro dash system ,tire sensing through android app, a full gps and data logging ,well make all the plans available for free too
supprisingly the cost for each bike was still cheaper than some of the top end giant ebikes etcwe were under 5000 australian for each ,not including the generator crank units ,which are looking like a pipe dream,unless someone has the right shop to make them
I like the idea of using the back motor as the primary and using the front as a reserve. FWIW my home built Bike does 37mph I limited it to 27 and it doubled the range.
I am wanting to set my bike up this way. I have a front hub motor now, and want to add a rear hub to that. Two questions: do you use the pedal assist sensors and do you have one on both motors? Second, brakes... my bike has rim brakes, no disk. Since I already have a front hub (I don't know if it can be retrofitted), would it be functional to add a disc brake to only the rear wheel?
Wow that a 3000 dollar bike love the power only thing i dont like big ass tires im planning to get a ebike i got schwin not a e bike plan to get one nice bike
What would happen if you had 3000 watt rear and 750 watt front? I'm thinking of doing this for some reasons. Will the 750 watt motor slow down my bike after 30mph?
I'm sure it's nice to be able to put 60% power to the back and 30 - 40 to the front so you don't get any wheel spin up there for having 50 or 60 to the front and only 20 or something like that to the back when going up a very steep incline so you don't end up on your back but I'd like to see that done on the store-bought ones with one throttle and a potentiometer or something to divvy up the power
I do like the separate controllers, I believe this will be a trend for future ebikes. I’m planning to convert my Himiway Escape Pro to your setup. Just can’t find a similar front mag wheel to match. (Maybe use the rear for the front)All spoke would be a better setup but really like the mag wheel look.
Hi everyone I have a fatbike I installed a BBSHD mid drive. I would like to add a front hub motor and have two independent systems like this set up the only question I have is how to kill both motor when applying the breaks. Thank you
I did a diy Bafang mid-drive and now I'm thinking of adding a second motor for insurance in case I break a chain. The hub motor would still get me home. I have the same question. How do I connect the second set of brake cables to the existing brake levers?
You could plug the batteries in parallel, you'd still have independent systems, if one battery goes out the other could power both if it can give enough power. Advantage would be if you'd want more powerful controllers you could because power would come from two batteries if you hit one motor. I'd also open that rear motor and check the gears.
@@bernlitzner2739 depends on how you connect them, with just a split connector they'd run no problem until the smaller one ran out and would continue to run until the bigger one ran out, with diodes it'd do the same but would keep them from charging each other if they're slightly not the same voltage. With one of those smart ones it'd be able to draw differently from each batteries, unless one can't give as much as the big one
I really like your videos. Great production and editing values...Well Done! I also totally agree with your approach on the drive system. Would you go up in a rocket without redundant control systems?...I don't think so. I think your approach is right on. What about a more powerful geared motor in the rear for dig out and a direct (non Geared) motor in the front for top speed, as well as, climbing assist. A heavier direct drive motor in the front may also help to get better traction at the front wheel. How about getting a bike with dual 20 AH batteries? Simply split the batteries then add a display and motor controller to run the front and rear motors independently. Lastly What about regenerative braking ?...Just saying...kunk
Does having duel chains ony trike make it easier to do rear wheel drive? Whats the pros and cons when ot comes to a double chain set up and converting ?
Nice. Do you find the front can handle the full kw? I'm thinking of doing this with 1kw rear and 500w front. Wondering what is the ideal power balance for independent systems
Hey man, I've got a store bought pedal assist ebike with no throttle. 250w rear motor. I was thinking of adding a front motor/separate system with a throttle. Do you reckon this is a good idea? Bearing in mind the rear motor has no throttle and is pedal assist only
so if I get a front kit for my bike and a ton of stuff is left not connected .. only connecting the throttle , battery , controller etc.. that front system is going to work just fine? thanks in advance..
What's the reasoning behind not using pedal assist on the front? If you switched the wheel the PAS is connected to, it could be AWD since you push pedal the front wheel.
I added a front motor to my xclass. Two throttle for long ride is bad for me, don't want both of my hands to get sore..lol. so I wire my up to a single throttle.
@@sxiong13 Yeah I was thinking two thumb throttles side by side on the right handle bar grip. Have them close enough to actuate them with one hand, maybe have the rear throttle closest and the front throttle next in line.
I guess since it is electric the two motors can be at varying speeds without harming the slower one as pedaling overrides engine speed so your not fighting a gas or diesel style engine brake with an accelerating motor. I live tinkerers, Good for you. The magic of my bike is the trailer and the wide 80 plus miles of trails in my area. BRING A BATTERY PACK CHARGER AND TWO BATTERIES, A (sorry about caps) my puppy, a tent and some food and go away for the weekend! While I like the speed. Range on some of the mods would be a great way to show us what makes sense for our purpose. Your front wheel drive is good for ascending but NOT descending steep grades.
i was wondering,on my bike,single motor and battery,when i pedal the bike while pedal assist in 0 position,its slowly recharge the battery. its not much,but it helps me to get more range. by that i was thinking,is it possible with your rad dual setup,whenever you choose it, can you recharge the front drive battery while you pedal using your rear drive battery?
Yea for sure, just buy a fat tire rim with a motor on it, connect a batter and controller to the motor and attach a screen and put the throttle on the second handle
Your ebike works….I been riding eBikes for around 11 yrs & have around 40+ eBikes (collectors). Regarding brakes, using a rear DD (internal controller)then using regen works too, & using a geared hub upfront (zero drag) w/hydraulic.
I agree I have exact same system as you I built myself on a hidoes b6 an like you I have full twist throttle on back wheele in the right an thumb throttle on left for front an 2 batarys 2 displays an everything you say is on the money Bill
The hardest part is finding a geared hub motor to fit the front wheel. Once you got that it should be easy to get a controller display and battery to match it.
I did the same thing to my bike, without watching your video. I have 2 motors with their own batteries. Each of them with seperate throttles. There is another BIG advantage you didnt mention in your video. I made much more milleage than with just one motor. Let me explain, on a flat road I use only one of the motors. That is enough to go. On steep hills and quick accelerations I use 2 motors. The result iis almost double milleage comparing to normal e-bikes.
I’ve been trying to find this bafang 750w motor with the 135mm dropout. I can’t find a place that sells them. Dose anyone here know where can I get one?
Your approach to this setup is so logical and well thought out, especially after having the front end failure. Necessity is the mother of invention. Congratulations on a personal masterpiece!
I was thinking about this today, and knew someone out there had already done it the way I was imagining. And here you are! Thank you for sharing your rationale and real world experience on this design.
having two independent systems would be the way I'd go too, for the same reason you stated, got a back up system if one goes down.
100% agree. I’m currently building a dual hub motor off road bike with dual suspension. I want that acceleration for off road trails, no need for high top speed. Controlling both motors independently is a must for off road mud/hills/etc.
Precisely, independent throttle control is very valuable off-road
Beautiful build yes separate throttles are much better it eliminate un necessary wheel spin you can start the bike moving first before engaging the front drive
You gave a clear explanation as to why separation of the system is a plus in many ways.
The most important/enjoyable thing is you made it your own. *CUSTOM*
Absolutely! I love to customize and think everyone should 😁
@@CitizenCycle925 I’ve been thinking about how I was going to set up my own DIY ebike. 😎
I use the dual throttles in exactly the same way and would never link them. Just the other day going over a narrow wooden foot bridge the front wheel spun like crazy due to green moss on the wood. I instantly let off the front throttle but kept the back one on to drive me forward, it just works. 👍👍
You can still link them and just turn off the front motor. That's is my setup.
@@sxiong13 But why would you want to turn off the front motor? It's then not AWD. If you have the front motor turned on and they are linked then to cut power to the front wheel if it's spinning you have to cut power to both motors. You have so much more flexibility with independent systems, it's like a manual car vs automatic when it comes to clutch control and gear selection.
@@CraigNiel also 2 throttle is not good for long rides. Can't have both hands getting sore...lol
Precisely 😁
@@sxiong13 Oh no, you ALWAYS need one good hand! 😜😜😂😂
I've been following your project closely, and I've been waiting for this video. I am amazed with how powerful the bike is. Congratulations. It's a one-of-a-kind machine, and it's really cool. I can definitely see the advantages you are talking about and your reasoning makes a lot of sense! The biggest disadvantage I see is that if you are not running the front motor simultaniously with the rear, you have to overcompensate with the back motor to overcome the internal mechanical resistance of the front motor, leading to harder power draw on the rear battery. Since the front motor has a smaller battery that will run out quicker, the rear motor will have to over compensate once it runs out. Linking two batteries and running both motors through one controller would overcome that issue since you would always be using both. Obviously, then you wouldn't have the advatages that you talked about. Of course, you can't really have it both ways without having a switch.
I love the way you did this. It is the route I am going to go. I love that the systems are independent
Dude you know I put 2 motor on my bike because of you. Because you show us your experience. Now I installed a mid drive bafang 1000w on my bike last week to add to them. 3 motors. Lol!
It's rainy here so I waiting the sun to make video to how powerful it is.
That sounds super. Please leave message to this comment with new video link. That way I receive it directly.
@@smartassist9700 Link are often filtered by youtube. Clic on my thumbnail or name and you will be on my channel.
It makes sense to me. I just recently purchased my first e bike. 2nd will be a build. This is exactly what I want to build.
Good luck on your build, make it your own :)
wow I had to watch this video because I kitted out and made my own bike just like how you set up yours. some off your ideas and reasons for putting this one together is the same as mine. I am not crazy after-all I am here in the UK and someone in the USA think and do things like I do we are indeed connected. many thanks for this post.
I've been wanting to do this on my bike. I'm glad I came across this video. I like your set up. Now I know which direction I'm going with my project. Thanks for posting this video.
@maxreigert3801 i also sell front motor kits now at citizenperformance.com
Hello from Ireland. I've been checking out a lot of e-bike channels because I'm pondering about getting a red rover 6 plus, but I've noticed your voice sounded incredibly familiar and then it hit me .....Bob Ross. You're a cool dude with a cool suiting voice and your knowledge on ebikes has been is second to none. Now, I'm going to put you on a playlist and listen to you falling asleep, not that you're boring....but that voice.😁👍
One thing that comes to my mind is that if you are using both hands for each throttle control you have less "grip" on the Bicycle handlebars which could be dangerous in case of quick move.
I can ride my bike, with no handlebars
Thoughts on 3.0a. Link you batteries and controllers in parallel would limit the voltage sag and increase range. Using 2 thumb throttles next to each other so you can fat-thumb one, the other, or both all with same thumb.
Probably done making changes, separate systems is perfect for me for the reasons noted plus my rides are relatively short so not worried about range.
I've been thinking of doing exactly this. I have a 1kw store bought ebike and would love to add a front kit.
Since the front wheel doesn't need as much power as the rear, maybe 500w would be sufficient for the front?
Also not looking for max top speed, rather hill climb, accel, snow etc.
Cool beans!
Yes this is the way too go. You inspired me too build my bike.
I built my ebike on a Beachcomber style bike it has a 3000w rear hub motor on 72v 80a battery triangle in the frame, right hand twist throttle, 2000w front hub motor 52v 45a battery mounted on top of frame like a motorcycle gas tank, left hand thumb throttle and a bb02b 750w mid drive 48v 30a battery on back rack using pas. This is how I commute and I love the way you can use the power in unlimited combinations and range. The torqky mid drive can be used for the hubs to regen the batterys too. Mid drives and hubs are both great and used in combinations can work hand and hand. The key is to use separate batterys for each system or have a system all the same voltage and use a battery that can provide enough Amps to run multiple motors without pulling too many Amps from your battery. And remember...
You are the creator's creation creating the creation's, For the creator created creations too creat. So Create Creator! The possibility's are endless.
Again thanks for yhe advice and inspiration.
My build has the 2000W rear wheel motor on pedal assist & linked to the display that controls the power mode from 1 to 5.
Then the 1500W front wheel motor is switched & runs off of the throttle, so I have AWD on demand for hills & max power, which is fun!
The only problem I've encountered so far is having to swap to steel front forks as alloy tend to break too easily.
Great points, I never thought of it this way. I got my Ariel Rider Kepler on Tuesday I would like your thoughts on that bike as well. Not for me because I know it awesome but more folk listen to you than me so... I also would like to know your thoughts of doing an AWD setup on the Kepler.
How you liking the Kepler? I got my eyes on that bike. Seems like a steal for $1799.
Built my own dual 1000watt system...I love the throttle arrangement. Left thumb, front wheel turbo mode lol :) She is heavy but the 4 inch tire on 3.5 rims is plenty durable.
i don't own an ebike yet but i have to say...you have me convinced. all good arguments 👍
What are you waiting for, they are too much fun!
Thank you, You have demonstrated my thoughts for my upcoming conversion . But I will get hydraulics first. Old as I am (70) not taking any chances
thats the best and ideal concept both independent power but one thing also to consider that the watts of the rear wheel is higher than the front, that will provide tha safety of the bike riding with both wheel power
I agree, it's your bike, if you like it, I love it!!
Those rear racks with the built-in battery holder can hold a really big battery and certain batteries made for that rack setup the larger rectangular ones some include a tail light
be cool to see your rig hitting some rugged hill climbs
thanks for sharing
I can't believe how clean you have everything with all the wires ,and duel everything good job citizen ,hell yeah I want one . I need to upgrade my brakes too full hydro like my other bike .
Once you have those your spoiled and mechanical brakes just doesn't do it for ya anymore .👍👍
I'm in the planning stages of converting a Rocky Mountain Blizzard 20 to AWD electric and you're giving me ideas 😏
It is better, because it is basically intelligent AWD, like you can decide whenever the AWD to kick in, and at which level. This is crucial when go off road, it is like you can select variable power distribution on 4x4 car system
great introduction.
just wondering what kind of display and controller you are using because almost all colored displays are for bafang mid drive setups and it is hard to find. thx
Like the set up was thinking of going this way as well. Only need both fortake off and hills. And seen others where the front spins on take off which would make it underivable on wet roads don’t want my front tire slipping
Check out my front motor kit at citizenperformance.com
The disadvantage is that it's just heavier but still better to have two systems
this is what i was thinkin of doin with that one comment i left. i rlly like this idea its dope asfc n im thinkin ab trying it myself
Would like to see your wire harness, & a description video how you connected all to your second controller.
Almost done upgrading mine from the ebikeling front motor to a bafang geared motor, only hold up is i can’t get the brake rotor off the ebikeling, 3 of the 6 screws just will not budge, gave up and ordered a new rotor. I laced the motor into the rim myself, wasn’t that hard, watched a couple of youtube videos, took about 2 hours.
I like it cause you get the range that is what I am after and the extra speed is a life saver also.
Thanks much. I wud have thot that the 2 separate motors might fight each other, but apparently not a problem
What bike did you use to add all that to? Reason for asking is I'm thinking about building one like yours.
Totally AGREE!! Front wheel spin can be deadly in a turn, and a lot other situations. I am curious, if you could try doing a-turns on the road using front wheel drive with generous power, how the bike handles. Then try the same thing in rear wheel drive
I would have been concerned about one motor fighting with the other, but I guess it is no problem. Am I correct that when one motor pushes faster than the other, the slower motor just glides as in neutral? Or does it put up resistance?
Seriously wish I could afford adding a 52v front motor to my Magicycle, it would be a beast. Two questions; Why oh why haven't you added full hydraulic brakes? it's so easy. Second, do you think the 52 tooth crank makes enough of a difference to upgrade? Thanks, love the Tubes, keep up the great work,
I have hydraulic brakes ordered just waiting for them to arrive, and the 53 tooth chainring certainly adds a lot of feeling in the pedals at higher speeds, I like it better but it's not a must have
I get 30% more range when I run my motors independently without pedal assist. The pedal assist will make the rear motor run all the time and end up with less range. My front battery will recharge 0.1v in a 0.25 mile if I'm going over 19mph on rear motor, if I go 35mph it recharge way faster 0.2v in 0.25 mile. If I'm running just the front motor it will recharge the rear battery. This is how I got more range.
Hey citizen, love your thinking! I have a himiway, I got a bike with a ebikling1000W on rear ,could I respoke it to the front wheel? Then I can do this too.I ride to work everyday and the wind and hills slow me down!
do you find it better in snow? What do you think about dual suspension?
Love the bug bike, awesome job dude looks high tech so take a bow sir on your accomplishment.
I agree with all your reasons. I would prefer it that way too! Nice job!
Great setup! I bet your neighbors think you're talking to yourself.
i am pretty talking to myself, it's getting less awkward though :)
great idea. always better to pull than push when going uphill.
Hiya some good points,we went a tad more full on designing our bikes for our around australia trip we use 2 cycle analysts v3s with multiple programs setup a left and right twist throttle the left we reversed the insides ,but we have controller that manages many combinations of switching so left throttle can be a regen throttle or front wheel throttle,or can use one throttle with variable power splits front and back via dital pot and digital buttons,and they are can bus intergrated with 2 sabvoton foc controllers unlocked versions allowing insane accelaration and speed,then reason we did it this way is that we can run the front motor with certa9in flux weekening settings that actually allow us to recoup small amounts of regen from the rear while in the right conditions,we found in best conditions we can add 20 to 25 % in distance or back into battery ,should allow us to get over 300kilometers per day without having to pedal ,the pedals wont be by chain,theyll be ride by wire generators ,and runs back through cycle analysts shunts into batteries ,unfortunatly thanks to covid ,were haveing trouble finiding someone to make all the cnc parts for the generators,
this has now been over a year and half in research and building,and designing 3m liquid cooling for battery ,the controllers and motors ,all the cells are fully submerged in liquid as are the controllers,we were able to make the set up 100% fire proof and the cells never raise more than a few degrees even when charging battery packs at 80 to 100 amps continuous ,we arnt going to sell these bikes but well make all the designs and software available for free to anyone that wants them
some of the systems we designed we all acessories and lighting systems, abs and stability control, wheelie control unit, custom dash transmiter unit that sends the data to android phone running torque pro dash system ,tire sensing through android app, a full gps and data logging ,well make all the plans available for free too
supprisingly the cost for each bike was still cheaper than some of the top end giant ebikes etcwe were under 5000 australian for each ,not including the generator crank units ,which are looking like a pipe dream,unless someone has the right shop to make them
I like the idea of using the back motor as the primary and using the front as a reserve.
FWIW my home built Bike does 37mph I limited it to 27 and it doubled the range.
Yep using front has a reserve system is another good idea
I am wanting to set my bike up this way. I have a front hub motor now, and want to add a rear hub to that. Two questions: do you use the pedal assist sensors and do you have one on both motors? Second, brakes... my bike has rim brakes, no disk. Since I already have a front hub (I don't know if it can be retrofitted), would it be functional to add a disc brake to only the rear wheel?
Such a cool bike! Whats the range on it?
I have a mountain bike, so could I convert it to 2x2 e bike? Or would you recommend a different bike?
Wow that a 3000 dollar bike love the power only thing i dont like big ass tires im planning to get a ebike i got schwin not a e bike plan to get one nice bike
What would happen if you had 3000 watt rear and 750 watt front? I'm thinking of doing this for some reasons. Will the 750 watt motor slow down my bike after 30mph?
Not as long as it’s a geared hub motor, if it was a DD then yes it would.
I'm sure it's nice to be able to put 60% power to the back and 30 - 40 to the front so you don't get any wheel spin up there for having 50 or 60 to the front and only 20 or something like that to the back when going up a very steep incline so you don't end up on your back but I'd like to see that done on the store-bought ones with one throttle and a potentiometer or something to divvy up the power
This is a great idea to run two totally separate systems! Have you done a tutorial for anyone wanting to convert their rwd to awd?
I have not done a full tutorial. But I may be doing that in the not so distant future.
@@CitizenCycle925 Awesome! I certainly wouldn't be mad if you recommended a good independent front motor setup for a Wired Freedom. 😜
@@BoardGameCasualChannel I just may...
All sounds great how much money have you put in it?
Any reasons to change between drive systems? He keeps saying you can but I’m wondering why you would want to
I do like the separate controllers, I believe this will be a trend for future ebikes.
I’m planning to convert my Himiway Escape Pro to your setup. Just can’t find a similar front mag wheel to match. (Maybe use the rear for the front)All spoke would be a better setup but really like the mag wheel look.
Hi everyone I have a fatbike I installed a BBSHD mid drive. I would like to add a front hub motor and have two independent systems like this set up the only question I have is how to kill both motor when applying the breaks. Thank you
I did a diy Bafang mid-drive and now I'm thinking of adding a second motor for insurance in case I break a chain. The hub motor would still get me home. I have the same question. How do I connect the second set of brake cables to the existing brake levers?
How about range test using only front and range test using only the rear ......just out curiosity what one is most efficient and should use as primary
You could plug the batteries in parallel, you'd still have independent systems, if one battery goes out the other could power both if it can give enough power. Advantage would be if you'd want more powerful controllers you could because power would come from two batteries if you hit one motor. I'd also open that rear motor and check the gears.
Less voltage sag too wth a bigger capacity. Everything he has keep the same just batterys in parallel
Not sure how well this would work because of the difference in battery capacities.
@@bernlitzner2739 depends on how you connect them, with just a split connector they'd run no problem until the smaller one ran out and would continue to run until the bigger one ran out, with diodes it'd do the same but would keep them from charging each other if they're slightly not the same voltage. With one of those smart ones it'd be able to draw differently from each batteries, unless one can't give as much as the big one
Bad idea.
@@FightFilms And why is that?
I really like your videos. Great production and editing values...Well Done!
I also totally agree with your approach on the drive system. Would you go up in a rocket without redundant control systems?...I don't think so. I think your approach is right on.
What about a more powerful geared motor in the rear for dig out and a direct (non Geared) motor in the front for top speed, as well as, climbing assist.
A heavier direct drive motor in the front may also help to get better traction at the front wheel.
How about getting a bike with dual 20 AH batteries? Simply split the batteries then add a display and motor controller to run the front and rear motors independently.
Lastly What about regenerative braking ?...Just saying...kunk
That bike got power
I would like to see a mixer for both. Like start with both and at high speeds it switch off rear hub just front.
Does having duel chains ony trike make it easier to do rear wheel drive? Whats the pros and cons when ot comes to a double chain set up and converting ?
now. could you hook them into a single system? and make a switch to switch you from front/rear and both?
what do you do for a living?
Mine has a 1000w front and 1500w rear with 52v battery in front and 60v in rear and it’s fast.
Nice. Do you find the front can handle the full kw? I'm thinking of doing this with 1kw rear and 500w front. Wondering what is the ideal power balance for independent systems
You mentioned not being able to ride one handed with all wheel drive. Putting the front wheel on cruise may do it for long stretches.
Hey man, I've got a store bought pedal assist ebike with no throttle. 250w rear motor. I was thinking of adding a front motor/separate system with a throttle. Do you reckon this is a good idea? Bearing in mind the rear motor has no throttle and is pedal assist only
Do you think I could do something like this to my Mini Step through?
I had this idea today and came to UA-cam to see who thought of it first😂
so if I get a front kit for my bike and a ton of stuff is left not connected .. only connecting the throttle , battery , controller etc.. that front system is going to work just fine? thanks in advance..
What's the reasoning behind not using pedal assist on the front? If you switched the wheel the PAS is connected to, it could be AWD since you push pedal the front wheel.
Please please also add a mid drive crank motor to this also….. will be the Bugatti of e-bikes - add the cYC kit
I'm having a hard time finding a front hub kit like yours, can ya help me out??
I totally agree with the way you did it. Would love to have my Ariel Rider X Class outfitted like that.
I added a front motor to my xclass. Two throttle for long ride is bad for me, don't want both of my hands to get sore..lol. so I wire my up to a single throttle.
@@sxiong13 Yeah I was thinking two thumb throttles side by side on the right handle bar grip. Have them close enough to actuate them with one hand, maybe have the rear throttle closest and the front throttle next in line.
@@sxiong13 I believe Urban Grizzly has his dual motor Super73 set up with two thumb throttles side by side on right handle. I'll have to look for it.
@@Campfussell yes he does have that setup.
I guess since it is electric the two motors can be at varying speeds without harming the slower one as pedaling overrides engine speed so your not fighting a gas or diesel style engine brake with an accelerating motor.
I live tinkerers, Good for you. The magic of my bike is the trailer and the wide 80 plus miles of trails in my area. BRING A BATTERY PACK CHARGER AND TWO BATTERIES, A (sorry about caps) my puppy, a tent and some food and go away for the weekend! While I like the speed. Range on some of the mods would be a great way to show us what makes sense for our purpose. Your front wheel drive is good for ascending but NOT descending steep grades.
i was wondering,on my bike,single motor and battery,when i pedal the bike while pedal assist in 0 position,its slowly recharge the battery. its not much,but it helps me to get more range.
by that i was thinking,is it possible with your rad dual setup,whenever you choose it, can you recharge the front drive battery while you pedal using your rear drive battery?
Do you have torque arms in the front or the RST Guide is strong enough?
i do not have torque arms on it, just torque washers on each side and it has held up well so far.
Cool cycle.
The only disadvantage is the weight of the bike and stopping put 208 mill free floating rotors on it make a world of difference
I have a aventon aventure and was wondering if a front hub motor would work on it?
Yea for sure, just buy a fat tire rim with a motor on it, connect a batter and controller to the motor and attach a screen and put the throttle on the second handle
I like it but won’t motors fight each other since they are not speed matched?
Not really..
Each has the ability to freewheel so I don't think they could bind
Man, id loved to have your disgards. Could start a channel just throwing those together ...Hey, that may be an idea to explore.
Uai, porque nao ligar em paralelo a bateria as duas controladoras, e em um apenas display e acelerador?
Your ebike works….I been riding eBikes for around 11 yrs & have around 40+ eBikes (collectors). Regarding brakes, using a rear DD (internal controller)then using regen works too, & using a geared hub upfront (zero drag) w/hydraulic.
I agree I have exact same system as you I built myself on a hidoes b6 an like you I have full twist throttle on back wheele in the right an thumb throttle on left for front an 2 batarys 2 displays an everything you say is on the money
Bill
How would you go about doing this to a Himiway Cruiser?
The hardest part is finding a geared hub motor to fit the front wheel. Once you got that it should be easy to get a controller display and battery to match it.
Thanks for the response man. Any suggestions on one that may work?
Is it faster ?
How do u figure out the dropout for the tire the company I got is out of business and I can’t find stats
@@LexyTheEbikeQueen best way would be to remove the wheel and then measure the distance between the dropouts
Awesome job
I did the same thing to my bike, without watching your video. I have 2 motors with their own batteries. Each of them with seperate throttles. There is another BIG advantage you didnt mention in your video. I made much more milleage than with just one motor. Let me explain, on a flat road I use only one of the motors. That is enough to go. On steep hills and quick accelerations I use 2 motors. The result iis almost double milleage comparing to normal e-bikes.
Thanks for sharing this. i never did a range test on mine, i dont go for very long rides so i am never in danger or running out of juice.
Can you use the other system as regene mode
I’ve been trying to find this bafang 750w motor with the 135mm dropout. I can’t find a place that sells them. Dose anyone here know where can I get one?
Excellent idea, nice job
X4 wheel drive pedal power , how like now to cycle as regular bike now without power
The dude, got a grizzly & cab eagle but would swap any 1️⃣ of them for this 1️⃣ of a kind bike.