How good is the new Mule Cart? (AoE2)
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2023
- Let's take a look at the new Mule Cart coming in the Mountain Royals DLC. This is a new building available to the Armenians and Georgians, and let's see how it compares to the buildings it replaces.
0:22 Basic overview
2:00 Armenians
3:15 Georgians
4:20 Weak vs raiding
4:55 Smart behavior
6:40 Drawbacks
7:55 Wrap up and example
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Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsound.com
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition - Ігри
If it had been around from the start, I imagine the mule cart would have been something given to all the nomadic civs like huns, Cumans and mongols
It still can. Watch the devs add them to those civs once people are used to them.
@@finsfan90Maybe Magyars too.
@@finsfan90 that is one change i can easily get behind on
Oh my, just imagine how ridiculous Mongols would be lol
I kinda wish they implemented a special nomadic ability for these nomadic civs; like being able to pack/unpack some buildings, similar to how a trebuchet functions. (mostly excluding fortificated buildings like castles)
Or instead of that, they could have a unique military building that has this feature. It could be similar to the AOE3 Japanese's Daimyo/Shogun units. Since this is more of a offensive strategy, the building would lack defensive stats due to being light enough to travel/transport.
Mule carts moving together with the villagers is a HUGE eco bonus by itself as efficiency is peak 100% of the time, plus you're not paying extra wood to maintain that efficiency, another big bonus.
and no extra build time for each new lumber camp.
Too early to say of course but I bet this might be the first feature nerfed in the inevitable first update changes that comes for every new civ
@@teotlxixtli Gotta sell that DLC
@@Jerome... I would be cynical about it but since the original civs get tweaked too it’s definitely not THAT one sided by percentage when the nerfs come
And you need no action from the player to rebuild those Lumbercamps. In fact you even don't have to look for a new woodline by yourself, if you have scouted one, your wood-eco will move on its own once the old one has run out of wood! Especially in lategame this can be hugh. Its like some extra APM you get for free!
I love that AOE 2 continues to evolve! What an amazing game.
Not actually evolving when they use recycled ideas from other games like this clone of the ox cart from AoM
i don't think evolve is the right word, adapt and use what worked in the other age titles is more accurate
Everybody is right, evolving just means change and if other stuff works, does it matter if it's new or taken from somewhere else?
Age of mythology? Honestly my mind went to the special German Settlers in Age 3.
@buzter8135 AoM is older, even the Atlantean villager is the precursor of the German one of the AoE3
Reminds me of the carts for the Norse in Age of Mythology
That!
Norse* but yeah
@@noobtablet101 ty forgot Norse was religion and nords are regional
Yeah, pretty much the same thing.
that's because it is the cart from age of mythology
The Mule Cart is such a great throwback to Age of Mythology.
"There are three things to remember when playing the Norse."
Can they be repaired by villagers or healed by monks, and can they be converted and used by other civs (and does it required redemption)?
Seeing as they count as buildings. Prob vill repair and conversion with redemption
@@elonwhatever Oooh converting one would be amazing! Imagine being able to steal one for a civ that doesn't get this!
@@Ashadowtotheworldmost players will probably delete before concerts tho :(
just move it away, that cancel the convertion (building cant be converted from afar)@@Qobp
They're buildings, so they can certainly be repaired. They can also garrison into buildings and can be converted with redemption.
I like that they don't just make new civs: they give them an identity, making them properly distinct and different to play to their counterparts. I really like this
With the mule cart you do not have to lure boar or deer, as you can harvest and drop off where they die.
can't be used on food. Only other resources.
@@Silffi Dude 00:58 HUNTED FOOD!!!!
Wrong. It can be used for hunted food, but not others. Its kind of works like AoE1 storage pit.
@@Silffi it can be used on hunted food, but not berries or farms.
Still would likely be worth luring a boar, unless it's near a group of deer, so that way you don't have a group of villagers exposed and also walking to the boar then to whatever their next resource is
I'm not going to get the expansion, but whoever is, I'd like to see one of you try building mass mule cart use them as blocking shields against cavs in front of your archers/siege. Mules don't cost population limit anyway, so yeah...
From a wider design perspective, I think this is a really interesting addition. The Mule Cart has a lot of levers that can be pulled for balance (e.g. restricting which Villager types can use it), it makes sense as a potential addition to nomadic civilizations (if needed down the road), and it allows for some really dynamic custom/campaign maps!
Would love to see a comparison between this and the ox cart of AoM
Just got an ad for that lol
I was about to say this
Not much to compare. The ox cart won't follow the villagers, but it also can gather everything instead of everything but plants, and it's a lot weaker.
@@Quantumironturtle The Ox cart is also much cheaper and it takes 1 pop cap.
@@Quantumironturtle can the Loki ox cart keep up?
More civs should have these things like the nomadic ones.
I'd be willing to bet that there will be some community 'Nomad' maps starting with a Mule Cart rather than the resources to make a TC right away.
They want you to buy their newst DLC though.
Mongols should also have this cart.
I suppose they could also solve the issue of the mule cart following too closely is to
Have it have 2 hit boxes one is for collision and another for drop off. They could be very similar
FYI, the wrong celt bonus is highlighted @2:42. The important one is the lumberjacks not infantry
I think you highlighted the wrong civ bonus for the Celts around 2:46, but other than that, another great video as always. Recently I've been watching pro players and casters, they have unique takes around new content, but the insight you go for is off the charts. Hats off, Spirit.
I have followed your videos for almost 4 years now. I appreciates your time and effort you put in them. Thank you!
I have never once in my entire life played a multiplayer game of AoE 2. I only really played the campaign when I was a tiny child
Despite this I have never missed a single Spirit of the Law video since I started watching years ago. This video format is just so good.
There are dozens of us
Really like your videos Spirit! Thanks for all your work
Pleasantly surprised such an oldschool rts like AoE is introducing automated smart behaviour instead of tedious apm fluff. More of that I say
They need to give vikings mule carts!
Age of mythology reference
Or maybe even Goths and Teutons since Germans in AOE III had special villagers that rolled with donkeys attached to a cart, better known as the settler wagon.
thank you, as a west bank palestinian i need this escapism atm, we need an analytical video by you about what could be done about militia line as we saw how even the early champions are useless against crossbows with daut vs tatoh friendly match.
How are you?
@@Specoups nothing much bro you bury your head in the sand when things become hard to see and wonder if tomorrow is your turn, Then life goes on.
@@ryanforgo3500 I want to have hope for you, but I know that would be so hypocritical coming from me, living in a country that actively participates in your sufferings. I can at least say I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
Great video. Love how detailed you get. The mule cart reminds me of what the Norse have in AoM. Very handy.
Oops, you said Georgians at 2:40 when talking about Armenians and their +25% mule cart technologies.
Good catch
Those mule carts remind me of the Slave Miners from Red Alert 2, and i absolutely love the idea of them.
It really makes AoE2DE feel like a different game and not just a graphics and balance update. And i hope to see more cool ideas like this in the future for new civs.
That miner mining to the beat at 2:58 scratched me in places I didn't think could be scratched.
Wait. If the mule cart takes damage as a building, this means that it has a potential to scout dive under arrows quite well.
As a building, it's a low priority target
pierce armor is a lot lower than most buildings-- suspect it will get torn up almost immediately
Get all the defensive building upgrades, then spam loads of them and use them as movement blockers to protect your ranged units from melee attacks, might be weak but they are popless mobile trash u units that will absorb some enemy attacks, or ruin their pathing long enough to kill what's coming your way
@@andya9685now that's original!
Im am amazed by the ability of the devs to still come up with cool and interesting mechanics after so many years
Funny how just yesterday Hera said that SOTL will make exactly this video and here it actually is
One downside is that it's harder to wall-in your villagers. You don't always want to run away from your valuable resources. If gold or stone is being raided, people often wall-in the villagers, using the mining camp as part of the wall. But with the mule cart, you have to build a longer wall. I can't wait to see this in competitive!
I had a bad day, thank you for uploading :)
Does it take pop space?
If not can you make an infinite Mule Cart army and march on your opponent?
no, i think. its a bulding
It shouldn't, so you can theoretically do that. It's almost as efficient as a saracen forward market rush, but with the added benefit of listening to the donkey chants while trampling your opponent's base.
That's a good question. I am curious too.
lol hiding monks in an army of mule carts
Yeah thought about this too. Walling Amazon tunnel and then releasing hundreds of carts to soak the arrow fire while you storm in.
The introduction of moving buildings as a mechanic could open the floodgates
Love your videos. Thanks!
I love your voice, you are as an actor, and your intonations make me so much excite everything you say. Well done job.
Thank you for the videos mate !
Hyped for the new archer civ logged in and ... I can only preorder - sad :(
Awesome idea. Simple but implemented really well. Seems like it can be quite powerful.
I feel like these might be big for low level players who aren't confident at pushing deer, rather than milling deer they can use this and then send it to wood or gold.
Mathematician analyzing one of the best strategy games ever created...SOTL deserves millions of subscribers. 😇
Weird comment but ok
That auto following of the tree line is so good. The mule cart is already my favorite unit lol
I hope when they remake Age of Mythology they change the Norse Ox kart to be more like the Age of Empires 2 Mule kart,... vise versa I'm glad that when they basically put the AoM Ox kart into AoE2, they improved it instead of needing to micro it constantly like you had to in AoM
Placing the mule cart strategically well can save you some wood in feudal. Saving lumber camp gold mine cost! Transition to castle can be faster when not needing possibly one villager to wood and using that for food. Of course it depends where the gold is located.
It's one of the best long term bonuses and both civs have additional synergy with it
The only issue is raids in extended feudal or late game open maps where wood becomes an issue. You probably won't build 20 plus churches for defense though I could be wrong
Thanks for your analysis!
Havent played Aoe2 since maybe 3 or 4 years, but i love seeing the amazing things they add!
Could you make a box formation of these to protect trebs or archers? Could be a great empty pop space way to protect units
Probably not, you can see the options they have at 2:21 and there are only upgrades and garrison there
Video made me think of how cool (and hard to implement ) it could be to have a mod where supply lines are a thing (i.e. resources need to be carted/hand carried to a location before they can be utilized at that location). One could lose or gain supplies due to bombardment or raids...
In case nobody mentioned, I think it's obvious enough that they took the idea from the Norse in Age of Mythology, which works as a nice reference.
I think they're trying to get people used to more AoM mechanics (as this is effectively a backport of that game's Ox Cart unit in concept) before giving us more info on Retold.
This was a great addition they took from age of mythology. The spiritual successor to aoe2. Didn't have as good multiplayer though, never did really replace aoe2. Maybe next they could take the walls and rotating buildings to odd angles? I thought they were both good additions. I'm guessing that would be pretty difficult in the square grid that is aoe 2 though.
Love the concept of the mule cart and, with my fondness of wood heavy maps, would likely have to micromanage my lumberjacks less since the cart will advance with them.
May also lead to me hunting more as, with the wood focus, I typically jump to farms pretty quickly 😂
Some time ago you made a video about optimal woodline reseting, i would love to see a short video that mule cart as a comparasion.
Mule Cart could be very effective as a sponge unit to throw into fights. ...oh it's a building so I'm guessing units won't prioritise attacking it.
There's gonna be some incredible griefing potential in this unit at high level play
Since it's a building, enemy units should prioritize your units first. It wouldn't be as effective to put in front and absorb arrows like a ram, for instance.
Thank you for a great video. I'm not sure if it's intentional, but around 3rd minute as you talk about Celts wood bonus, you circled the wrong one on the slide.😅
One downside seems to be walling. Lots of players use the lumber and mine camps as part of their walls, mainly vs melee. Think of that gold mining camp with 3 villagers wallet by 2 palisade walls. Mule cart will likely make it harder to pull off
Oh hey, that's like the Norse thing from Age of Mythology! Honestly, it will be neat to see if/how that effects the meta.
4:36 Saracen mains best dream come true
So cool.
I like the idea of stealing resources from an opponent with villagers and then retreating, or being able to recover at a new location faster if your base gets overrun.
They should be capturable like sheep. It would balance out some of the benefits nicely to increase the raiding risk.
Great video, as always!
Do monks need redemption to convert it?
can you drop off other food sources by switching them to a lumberjack or hunter? for the berries example maybe they could been tasked to hunt so they become hunters, and then drop the berries food off
2:42 - I think you meant Armenians rather than Georgians here.
Lovely video as ever though! Can always count on SOTL to deliver the numbers.
Now we need a Savar vs Paladin video
You mean the exact same thing the Norse had in age of mythology? That was a good entry into the series, it's good to see them bringing back some features from it.
Honestly having a moving unit that counts as a building in every sense is a fun concept. I wonder what other current or future units they can apply this to
Mule knights...
I wonder if they'll give the mule cart to more civs. In particular, I'm thinking of the nomadic cavalry civs like the Cumans, Huns, and Tartars. They're in the same general geographic area, and having moving camps would fit really well with those cultures being nomadic.
I'm wondering how Redemption will affect conversion of mule cart. Will it be something you have to walk directly next to like a normal building or will it be possible to do it from afar like many siege units. Also, does it take any pop space? With garrisoning a mule cart, what are the limits on their garrisoning? Towers, donjons, castles, fortified churches, gurjaras docks, gujaras mill, khmer house etc.
i generally dont have much of a problem with shorter videos but i kinda expected a deeper dive coming from THE SotL
Mobile drop off points sound really good for nomadic villagers traveling from resource to resource they should be really useful to save on wood from constant lumber and mining camps.
Maybe one can use it in feudal age for soak arrow fire (like a ram), if it comes to archer/skirmisher battles. If it has town watch, it could be a nice scout.
Another Age of Mythology 'steal' 😮 thanks sotl for the video! As always, quality content.
Incredible analysis, hilarious that you’re suggesting it’s only preliminary 😂
I hope this cart can be retroactively added to well-known nomadic civs like Huns or even Vikings (mule cart with free wheelbarrow and handcart bonus, juicy), similar to that new siege ship designed for Romans and added back to Byzantines later.
reminds me of the ox cart from the vikings in age of mythology
tho in that it worked with all collectables and had all eco upgrades
There's a lot of potential for these in custom campaigns.
a rare SOTL editing error... can you find it? Love your content SOTL, keep it up :)
Im going to love this on land nomad ludicrous size
Babe wake up, new Spirit of the Law video dropped
Basically, it's a similar but movable storage pit (AOE1)
And Age of Mythology
Remind me of the settler wagon from AoE3, although function differently. Maybe more of the slave miner from RA2, which is more portable than the other two miner
@2:42 you mistakenly said "Georgians" when talking about Armenians, just a heads up! Thanks for the content!
@2:46 highlighting the infantry movespeed bonus instead of the lumberjack bonus had me so confused for a moment.
I've only just heard about Mule Carts and I already have a couple of ideas if they need nerfing:
-Give them a set amount of resource they can receive, say a couple thousand, and then they'd need to drop these off at the town centre to reset
- If a Mule Cart is killed by the enemy, they 'capture' a certain amount of resource off you
I wonder if it would be worth patrolling your mule cart along a larger wood line to prevent the bumping
Does it count as a villager if garrisoned in a tc and enable firing more arrows? Can it be garrisoned in a tower, transport ship, castle and a Khmer house? Do enemies prioritize it as a unit or a building with the patrol command? Does alt+select ignore it like villagers? Does it run away from enemy attacks like villagers? Can you use it to block enemies? Do the foundations block movement like building foundations like a quick-wall? How much space do you need to build it? Can it be built on marsh terrain? Can you place the foundation it in the black fog of war? Does any team bonus affect it?
If the mule cart exists in HD it would have ship armor class
i like then skin tbf
This will really help with Georgian TC drops. If it wasn't enough that their TC is unassailable, they can move and hide their eco anywhere for free.
The problem that I don't see anyone mentioning. Is that its going to be extremely difficult to wall in attacks on stone or wood if this thing moves or is on a weird tile.
No longer will two or three walls stop scouts on your gold for example.
oh shit, is that the Ox Cart from Age of Mythology???? That's so cool!
The biggest disadvantage of the mule cart is that it seems somewhat fragile, with only 300 hp and 1/2 armor, it'll be very vulnerable to raiding compared to typical eco buildings, especially later in the game when units deal more damage. Fully upgraded hussars/light cav will deal 10 damage to it, so that's only 30 attacks to kill one. Even feudal age archers after fletching only need 100 shots to kill one (Which sounds like a lot, but when you have 20 archers, that's only 5 volleys).
It'll also be more difficult to wall off wood/stone/gold to defend against raids, which may be a big deal vs aggressive civs in the feudal age.
Lumber/mining camps also can be used as part of walls to keep villagers safe
For Georgians, what if you started deer instead of sheep for food income, using the cart as a means for forced drop-offs? Would you then be able to keep villager production up without breaks or is it still not enough?
If anyone knows, how does the mule cart operate when it's being used for multiple resources (eg, woodline next to gold & stone mines)? Does the cart move along with the woodline being chopped down or does it stay with the miners? Same applies for hunt & nearby woodline &/or mines.
For the Georgian start, is it a good idea to go straight onto boar with the mule cart when you find it to offset the -50 food start?
Spirit of the Law!
The colour overlay at #2:40 seems 1 line to high, given that you're talking about the Celt's wood bonuses, but it highlights the infantry speed.
So mule is very similar to the storage pit in return of rome but it can move.
can you foward cheese "building" wall with it? Box enemy worksites in, whole bases or armies. It seems to only be sensitive to siege damage
Besides town centers. Can mule carts also be garrisoned inside other buildings such as castles, keeps or even the fortress monasteries? Also can they be loaded onto transport ships?
I am pretty sure it will be used at one point as meat shield with archers also it might be worth a try to use them as mid game scouts.
Can they garrison into towers? Maybe good with towerrush.
I believe they have an attack priority below any unit, so unless the opponent is manually clicking on them or you physically choke off access to the units behind with them they won't make a good meat shield.
I saw a clip today that appeared to show archers prioritizing mule carts over units until the units got closer, even when the unit was in range of the archer. If I understand what I saw correctly, that would mean that units consider the mule cart a unit for targeting purposes. This could be a big problem for late game, as a player could build a lot of mule carts that take up no pop space and flood the enemy with movable buildings that the units treat as a unit