Someone in a stream chat said that Seth had an old howcast video and I didn't believe it. After looking for a while I can't believe that my favorite UA-camr was on howcast years before his channel exploded! XD
Punch is definitely a more musical sound when listening to serious music. When an acoustic bass has its strings plucked, there is a certain attack that is there. This is what makes a speaker stand out from others. Sheer volume is not a trait of quality in sound. Lack of distortion and clarity, or "punch" in this case serves for more accurate musical reproduction. For me, my goal is to have the recording studio brought into my car, not out-volume my neighbor, but, that's just me.
Ya, I mean if you want to sit around and do math class on what subs to pick, then maybe you should be doing something else. --two 12s will not sound the same as one 15" sub.
It's called transients. Now if the transducer has garbage decay periods at low frequencies, no matter the size or reflex tuning, it will always be garbage and >90% of the drivers in the market are like that. One way of overcoming that issue is by going sealed and getting the box well damped mechanically. An 18" will sound punchy and musical, heck even a 21", as long as the builder knows a little of engineering. Now with that said, if the room modes are bad, everything that I've just said will be moot unless of course you own the house and have the money to modify the house on the spot.
everybody is always like "well a 12 can be louder than two 10s IF it's in this type of box with this and that and blah blah blah".....what the guy is saying is ALL THINGS EQUAL the 10 sounds a tad more punchy 12 more boomy. if they are both in equal enclosures built to spec from the same manufacter (i.e. compared two rockford punch p3 10s to one rockford punch p3 12) and on the same amplifier in the same vehicle positioned the same inside the car etc etc...if ALL THINGS ARE EQUAL then the 10s will be louder because of surface area and they will sound more punchy than the 12 would...yes you can put the 12 in such and such a box and not do the same for the 10s and this changes...but he said ALL THINGS EQUAL....man i hate when people nit pick every little thing on every video trying to make themselves sound so damn smart...
tankdog03 Depends on the amp. If the amp has the same power rating at 1 ohm and 2 ohm then yes. But say the amp is 1000 Watts, that 1000 Watts going to the 2-10’s or 1-12, the 2-10s still has more surface are than 1-12. And 1000 Watts is 1000 Watts no matter how you look at it. Also, same manufacturer, a lot of 10’s have the same power rating as their 12s, or close to it. Having 2 subs over 1 sub means you can use an amp that has double the power. 1-1000 watt 12” or 2 1000 Watts 10”. The 10s can handle 2000 Watts combined compared to the 1- 12s 1000 Watts Even if you had 2-10’s that were only half the power rating of 1-12 , which would be the scenario you mentioned. The 2-10’s still have more surface area, so “should” be “louder” than the 1- 12. Also all things being equal. Sub ohm ratings: 4ohm DVC sub wired in parallel = 2 ohms. 2- 4 ohm DVC subs wired parallel/parallel = 1ohm. Or 1- 2 ohm DVC wired parallel = 1 ohm 2- 2 ohm DVC wired parallel/parallel = .5 ohm.
@@tankdog03ify tank I have been searching my ass off for this answer. --- I had 2 12's going, sounded ok... and I swear when I unplugged one the sound was louder & better. Couldn't figure out what the point was of adding a 2nd sub if it splits the RMS in half (shitty amp)
It depends. The SD of two 10" is larger than a single 12". So if you want more bass, go for two 10". However two 10" subwoofers will take up more space and probably requires more power. Not to forget it REALLY depends on the subwoofer unit and the enclosure.
Currently I've got 2 8inch audiopipe subs in my car. Kid you not, i hit lower and harder than some guys out there with 2 10's or even 12inch subs. I'm only running 800 watts on both of them. My box is custom built and tuned extremely well. Everything plays a key role when setting up your car audio. Good box+ Good sub(s)+ right amount of power = good results
This guy is on point. All the time I hear people telling me that their 12 inch hits harder than my 10 inch and when I see what they have smh. They have different manufacturer amplifier and wrong type of box! Then I show them my Diamond 10 inch subwoofer with Diamond Class D amplifier and with the correct box. And they have this look on their face like “uhhhhhh”. It’s IMPERATIVE that you have everything EQUAL if you wanna get the most out of your audio system. Thank you for your time Lol.
I never found smaller subs to be punchier. I would say "peaky" more in the lower mid bass region. 12's tend to be "throatier". Both can hit hard but large speakers do so in a deeper fashion. The enclosure does over 80% of the work though.
Finally, someone with some logic. The LMS-U is pretty much king of drivers, some close competitors are the RE XXX 18", UXL-18 (half the cost of the LMS, close performance). I just pre-ordered a pair of FTW-21's. They are the 21" version of the UXL-18, hand made here in Canada. Great stuff.
12"s can be punchy, even 18"s can. It's just harder to make larger subwoofers that are capable of being punchy because you need to keep the cone light or have a stronger/bigger magnet to control the bigger/heavier cone as accurately.
If I have one 12 inch 250w rms sub, which of the two options would be the better upgrade? 1. Getting one more of the same model I already have, or 2. Get one 500w 12 inch sub?
"punchy" is usually the bass produced by music like techno, which is a quick, tight bass. Also similar to the bass produced by rock or metal bands. And "boomy" is the bass produced by rap and RnB...which are somewhat dragged out and in a way deeper. Two tens are going to produce more of a tight, accurate bass than one twelve. But then again it all depends on what enclosure you choose. hope it helps!
I've had the same set of Pioneer TS-W255C for the last 3 years, I've had roughly 10 or 12 different pairs of 12's and 10's before I stuck with the set I have now. Sometimes you've just got to shop around, Experiment with different boxes/amps before you can find something you actually like. I've even had a rockford 15" And a cheap Pyle 18"
I love my two new Rockford Fosgate P2 10’s. Punchy as hell with my Rockford Fosgate T500 1BD amp. Had the system installed three days ago. Audio guy was playing some bass 305 through them. Felt the bass through the walls. Awesome!
I have 1 Alpine type R and a true 1k watts. Sounds amazing. But! I listen to rock and metal and am not impressed with the bass. Would a single 10 be better than a single 12 for rock music?? Also, my box is currently tuned to 44 Hz. It's supposed to be 33hz.. Is that a huge difference in bass? (And it's a acura car)
late reply, sealed box is better for rock doesn't matter about the subwoofer size. the lower your ported box is tuned the worse it'll sound for rock music. 44Hz is better for rock than 33Hz.
Hey guys, I just got a 01 Mustang GT and the trunk is tiny. I have been using 12' subs for a long time now but I have to consider getting something smaller now. I'm thinking 2 10's or 3 8's are my best bet. I would like to go with the 8's but I'm wondering are they a joke or can they still hit the lows? I'd also prefer a sealed box because of space issues. Thanks
It's all about the box! I've seen setups that can take your breath away with a single driver on 300 watts if the box is built to specs. Vice versa, I've seen 1000 watt multiple driver setups that just don't hit right because the box was either off the shelf or poorly constructed. While this video may be correct to some extent, there is so much more to creating "boom" than amps and drivers.
now a different, yet similar question: I'm having problems choosing between 1 kicker 40CWRT82 or 2 Polk audio db840DVC (both 8" subs) I want to make an enclosure where the ski-hatch used to be, and like the POLK's looks over the KICKER's by miles But the kicker has 400Wrms and the polks only 180Wrms (each) They have same sensitivity, frequency range, etc The kicker also is shallower and needs at least a 0,23cu.ft. box and ONE Polk needs at least 0.35cu.ft (each) So for the Polk's I need double the money, double the space for the enclosure and have still less Wrms in total However, TWO POLK's would have less Wrms, but DOUBLE the surface! So would they play louder and more controlled than one kicker? Or does the single, more powerfull (stronger magnet?) sub play better??? hope someone can clear this out? thanks
yeah, i already went for better subs. after reading and calculating and comparing charts and comparing reviews, i'm going for Dayton rss210hf-4 I'll try 1 for starters and I'm quite sure it will suit the rest of the system. was looking @3 subs in the end: german maestro (orig. MB Quart engineers/factory) sw8010he visaton tiw200xs dayton rss210 the GM in the end seemed more a midbass cause low-end output was nothing to brag about the visaton was quite similar in performance as the dayton, nice flat curve when considering 8db cabin gain, but it's power handling of 120Wrms@8ohm/180wmax vs 280Wrms@4ohm/560Wmax made me believe the dayton suits the Audison lrx1.400 amp better. Also the dayton has FIVE year warranty, seems to have better technology for less distortion and above all, I think it looks stunning!! also have to find the first negative comment about this sub cheers
The size of the woofer des not determine how punchy it is. Unless you're narrow minded enough to stick with mainstream brands and prefab boxes. My 12s are punchy as fuck and still get low.
Exactly. I'm glad I read the comments before typing out almost everything you said. It's all about box designs, types of subs, the power you're pushing them with, and a lot more variables. My 2 12's will hit 140 db and still remain punchy at higher Hz, and still can hit lows. And that's in a prefab box. This friday, my custom enclosure will be completed.
True, I got 2 15"'s Dayton Audio UM15-22 in my Volvo S60, they punch harder than my girlfriends dual 10"'s and also respond a lot quicker, she's gottwo SPL-Dynamics XTR-300D2. Mine are punchier and also goes deeper. Haven't even tried to play them high yet, feeding them about 600w's each and they move just a very little amount and still rocks my whole interior in a 340L box.
Of course, of course. BUT, if you simply bypass the band so there is no lows, it simply sounds much tighter and punchier. So If I really want to enjoy some track, I have to EQ it to taste. Sometimes I put -6db or even -9db EQ at 60-90Hz for some tracks, sometimes I completely attenuate everything under 35Hz. So generally, yes, smaller diameters are punchier, because these rather lack serious lows, or hit excursion limits at almost "no power". But I´m going to find out, what happens if you throw HERD of these at your problem. I hope I will get to 25-30Hz full blast with 12 pieces.
Well tbf, a muddy bass bin will sound punchy in a square-ish living room bc of cancellations. lol Well, if somebody is rich enough to build a anechoic chamber as his listening room, then good for him.
Just a thought, it's not loud which makes the difference. It's the clarity of the sub kicking and the resonance with respect to the mids and highs of a complete audio system.
my 21 is an incriminator audio death penalty. one of the finest subs i have ever witnessed. im currently not using it because i need to recone it. probably going to order my recone from ia on friday when i get payed. but 2 of my friends had 21" DPs as well. one was running his at 4200watts, but inverted in a box with about 10cubic feet so it blew because it requires 12 and didnt have good air flow.
So for the example of a sealed speaker box, the box volume to achieve a given Qts is proportional to Vas: V_b = \frac{V_{as}}{\alpha} Where: \alpha = \frac{Q_{tc}^2}{Q_{ts}^2}-1 Therefore a decrease in box volume and the same F3 will decrease the efficiency of the sub woofer. Similarly the F3 of a speaker is proportional to Fs: F_c = \frac{(Q_{tc}F_s)}{Q_{ts}}
best i ever heard or built....1 12 jl on a 1000w amp and an 8 closer to the seat 400w...the 12 hit very hard and that 8 added enough punchy responce to even it out...the 8 was sealed and the 12 dual ported 4" ports....in a suburban need a large vehicle for all this.....for a friend..
A lot of people end up buying a larger subs because they thought bigger is better. The end result is having to justify the purchase later on by saying it has "just as much" punch as smaller subs. The fact is smaller subs = more punch (higher sq), less volume, better mid-bass. Larger subs = more muddy (less punch), more volume, better deep-bass. That's just physics. It's just stupid how many people try to defend their own purchasing decisions. What? Your 15" is more punchy than your friend's 10" and has better sq? It may make you feel better to say that, but when I hear someone say that I automatically know they have very little understanding of car audio.
How well a sub does depends on the motor it uses and the enclosure you put it in. The size has nothing to do with the "punchy" which I still don't understand what that is even supposed to mean. More controlled? Tighter Bass? Yeah your off the shelf 15" sub with it's 60oz magnet is going to sound like dog shit in a fan for "punchy". Take a 15" Sundown NS or any other top name 15" sub with a huge motor for control and yes it would be as "punchy" as a 10". Piece of shit 10's compared to piece of shit larger subs are "punchier" because the motor to cone ratio is a lot higher than on the cheapy 15" or 18" woofer.
Steven Watson The review here was specifically mentioning comparing subs from the same brand and wattage through the line, there's not need to get interhurt. Although sundown is pretty sex and I will need to build bigger enclosures and wallets to build up to nice toys like that
Well, no. Look at some speaker specs. It´s easy to run trough B&C speakers. 10" = 320cm2, 12" = 530cm2, 15" = 855cm2, 18" = 1100, 21" = 1680 or so... You have to deduct two thirds of the surround, count with manufacturers size difference, and even cone shape comes into play.
Which one is the best subwoofer to obtain a clean bass? I use JBL-GTO-1202D on a sealed 30 liter box @ 4 ohm with 360 rms Rainbow amplifier and for me it's reproduce very nice sound.
hm you dont consider the magnet size, or include 15s into the mix or anything really its quite a vauge question with surface area being the only solid answer dont forget enclosure and everything else too
2 12" speakers have a surface area of 226.08, one 18" speaker has an area of 254.34, so one 18 moves more air than two 12s. the 18s are better for the crazy low bass that rattles your car apart. the box tuning is huge though
video is 100% correct. he said if all things are even then the more cone surface will win. for example, two kicker cvx 10's given 1000watts will be louder than one 12" cvx or one 15" cvx given 1000watts. all subs have to be in a optimum built and crafted box and each design has to be equally tuned at same frequency for this theory to be true.
60w < 100w, doesn't matter what ohm. It's like asking which is greater 60watts at 4ohms or at 2ohms... they are the same. Now, if you were to ask will I get more volume, or more power, to a speaker at 4 ohms or 2 ohms? Well that depends on whether the amplifier is designed to deliver more wattage if the resistance decreases. Some amps do, some amps don't. So 100w-2ohm would be louder if the amp provides more power at 2ohm than 4ohm. 60w-4ohm would likely play at 120w-2ohm and be louder.
doesnt always depend on size, gotta think about the wattage you're putting to it. You can have 2 10's that are 300 watts a piece, so with two 10's you have 600 watts. But then you have a 12 with 300 rms just like the 10's. so the 10's would be louder do to more power. Also gotta think about that!
I have an old school solo baric 12" L7 sub in a ported box but it is farting between the musical notes and not very versatile, with my Genre of music, I was recommended 3 10" in a sealed setup for SQ. I also have a very large trunk and cabin "Lincoln Town Car" is there a subwoofer you would recommend for great musical sound quality as well lots of bass? I have an old school RF BD1500 Amp to play with, my birth sheet states 1800wrms at 2 Ohms all channels.
10s can be "boomier" if ported. just as 12s can be "punchier" if sealed. Every subwoofer is different and all fall under different categories to have different purposes either if it's for sound quality, spl or infinite baffle.
Back many moons I started all this. I took a monster Speaker out of a old Juke Box. I think it was a 22" speaker I push it with a amp booster. It only had one button on it , from Kmart People talk about bass. I have two Bass . One for right channel and one for left channel. Real music like led Zeppelin was recorded in Quad . I mean it would put a tear in your eye to listen to drums go all the way around the inside of the Car. My highs are under my seat. Mids in Doors . But , you in enjoy your thumper To each its own !
two 10 inch subs are louder but a 12 inch sub can reach lower notes and still sound good. If more speakers meant better sound then I'd have 30 door speakers in my trunk.
I totally disagree with the Sound difference between different size sub woofers I recently had 4 -8’s in a ported enclosure that was tuned to 32 hz , that’s pretty boomy if you ask me. If the manufacturers specs for any size woofer range any where from 250 hz to 30 even 20 then you will here must of the bass noted in music no matter the size . With that being said cone area does effect how much volume and air you are moving. Also the bigger the woofer the more the sound waves can travel outside the car. For example 8’s would be more for SQ inside the car with a little more damping factor in control , as for the larger woofer’s sound can travel further out of the car.
Surface area was mentioned. What about group delay, QTC, xmax, cabin gain were not mentioned and there are many more variables. In 8 more years of experience you'll know enough to say there are many other things i don't know yet.
Everything being equal? Maybe maybe not. When selecting a sub I always look at the low frequency reponce and the sensitivity. Example a 10 inch sub with a sensitivity 88db and low frequency of 24 Hz would for sure will give you that earthquake thunderest bass.
2001 convertible camaro , gift from brother he had 2 12s in it idk Wat kind of amp but they got damaged so I'm planning on switching those out . Any recommendations ? ( brand, size , watts)
ha ya i guess it just comes down to opinion. but with the dp, it gives you about a 2cube increase inside the box with that 9in triple stacked motor and giant basket
I was planning on using a Behringer Ep4000 bridged for each (about 2000rms). I still have to buy a MiniDSP to EQ them as well. Mach 5 is in Winnipeg, Manitoba. They are hand built to order, no mass production on them. I almost bought a pair of 13av.2's back in the day, it's a shame ED went under, they had some sweet products. I frequent AVSforum (mostly the diy forum) under the name thatsnasty. There's a guy on there who uses 8x sealed 13av.2's in his theater, pretty nuts.
I agree, it called vectoring. In order for this to work the subs have to be walled in and all facing 1 direction (sealed). Like looking in a van and seeing 16 subs facing the windshield. If you face them towards each other or screw up the port tune the waves cancel out and people wonder why their bass ain't loud. More subs FTW ! and don't have any air leaks for high SPL !
@faffy S it's all about the enclosure. I have a friend with 2 image dynamic 8's powered by 100 watts a piece. He got a box design from pwk specifically for his setup. I'm running a sundown e10 running at 450-500 watts in a box that we threw together real quick and mine hits nowhere near as clean, low, or as loud.
They all sound 'round' because off the high mass. If you can fit one big speaker in there then that's obviously the cheaper option. Also a bigger speaker tends to have a lower fs and higher xmax. If you want hifi then you want bandwidth which means low mass which is a different speaker then a car woofer.
So guys and audiophiles, I have a (1) Sundown SA-12 D2 600W Dual 2-Ohm SA Series in one sealed box and a dual Comp R in a ported box rated at 2ohms 1600 whats RMS, which one would you keep, there is the space difference. However I love the Kicker box for its sturdiness and decor. Thanks for your input!
I would buy another SA-12 and build a box for them. With enough power they will make your compR's look like kids toys.I run the 2010 CVR duel 12" enclosure on 1100 rms and while for the money they are decent...they don't compare to the SA's.
My real question is would 2 12" kickers be enough to give that ground shaking bass from a couple blocks away? what would be the best setup to have bass that can be heard/felt from a distance?
woofer excursion it's very important, you can have small speakers giving big frequency response because the volume of air they can move is more than normal speakers, I'm not sure if 2 speakers on the same box can actually produce deeper frequencies rather than being on different boxes
Why do people usually run a pair of 10s or 12s? Is it just because it's symmetrical or something to do with soun waves? I'm considering running a JL 8w3 and a 12w3 because I think the 8 would transition better better my 5.25".What are your thoughts?
SPL is based on speaker efficiency (db/w/m rating) You use the speaker impedance to calculate the maximum spl for a certain amplifier. Remember a 3db difference is double or half the energy . You need 10db difference for your ear to hear double the volume or roughly 10 times the energy. So a 90db/w/m 4ohm speaker has double the energy rating for same wattage than a 87db/w/m speaker. a 500W amplifier will sound twice as loud as a 50W amplifier. Compare db/w/m ratings. Rather than sizes.
nice! i love FI. when my brother was in highschool, he had an 18" btl on 5500 watts. loud as hell. i havent metered mine cuz i bought it blown and still havent reconed it. but my friends did a 149 recently. but when i wall it, i will easily be doing a 155 and up hopefully.
im almost positive thats sethsbikehacks
Indeed I believe your right
Young Soulja bruh i believe he is
Honestly threw me for a loop when I saw! That is him no doubt.
Bahaha 100% sethsbikehacks
Approved he is because he just made a video about it
Someone in a stream chat said that Seth had an old howcast video and I didn't believe it. After looking for a while I can't believe that my favorite UA-camr was on howcast years before his channel exploded! XD
Punch is definitely a more musical sound when listening to serious music. When an acoustic bass has its strings plucked, there is a certain attack that is there. This is what makes a speaker stand out from others. Sheer volume is not a trait of quality in sound. Lack of distortion and clarity, or "punch" in this case serves for more accurate musical reproduction. For me, my goal is to have the recording studio brought into my car, not out-volume my neighbor, but, that's just me.
So- a 12", in a sealed?
Ya, I mean if you want to sit around and do math class on what subs to pick, then maybe you should be doing something else.
--two 12s will not sound the same as one 15" sub.
It's called transients. Now if the transducer has garbage decay periods at low frequencies, no matter the size or reflex tuning, it will always be garbage and >90% of the drivers in the market are like that. One way of overcoming that issue is by going sealed and getting the box well damped mechanically. An 18" will sound punchy and musical, heck even a 21", as long as the builder knows a little of engineering. Now with that said, if the room modes are bad, everything that I've just said will be moot unless of course you own the house and have the money to modify the house on the spot.
@@automachinehead I agree
Seth’s bike hacks?
Jeremy Sharpe i think 26"s are more punchy than 29"s ......
wait wrong video
Seth subwoofer hacks
Lol
Is it actually him or it’s just a clone
Dead ass heard the voice and was like its him
everybody is always like "well a 12 can be louder than two 10s IF it's in this type of box with this and that and blah blah blah".....what the guy is saying is ALL THINGS EQUAL the 10 sounds a tad more punchy 12 more boomy. if they are both in equal enclosures built to spec from the same manufacter (i.e. compared two rockford punch p3 10s to one rockford punch p3 12) and on the same amplifier in the same vehicle positioned the same inside the car etc etc...if ALL THINGS ARE EQUAL then the 10s will be louder because of surface area and they will sound more punchy than the 12 would...yes you can put the 12 in such and such a box and not do the same for the 10s and this changes...but he said ALL THINGS EQUAL....man i hate when people nit pick every little thing on every video trying to make themselves sound so damn smart...
Little Ike
the same amp would give half power to each 10 and full power to one 12 though
tankdog03
Depends on the amp. If the amp has the same power rating at 1 ohm and 2 ohm then yes. But say the amp is 1000 Watts, that 1000 Watts going to the 2-10’s or 1-12, the 2-10s still has more surface are than 1-12. And 1000 Watts is 1000 Watts no matter how you look at it.
Also, same manufacturer, a lot of 10’s have the same power rating as their 12s, or close to it. Having 2 subs over 1 sub means you can use an amp that has double the power.
1-1000 watt 12” or 2 1000 Watts 10”. The 10s can handle 2000 Watts combined compared to the 1- 12s 1000 Watts
Even if you had 2-10’s that were only half the power rating of 1-12 , which would be the scenario you mentioned. The 2-10’s still have more surface area, so “should” be “louder” than the 1- 12.
Also all things being equal. Sub ohm ratings: 4ohm DVC sub wired in parallel = 2 ohms.
2- 4 ohm DVC subs wired parallel/parallel = 1ohm.
Or
1- 2 ohm DVC wired parallel = 1 ohm
2- 2 ohm DVC wired parallel/parallel = .5 ohm.
@@tankdog03ify tank I have been searching my ass off for this answer. --- I had 2 12's going, sounded ok... and I swear when I unplugged one the sound was louder & better. Couldn't figure out what the point was of adding a 2nd sub if it splits the RMS in half (shitty amp)
Well said..
I've had a single 8, 10, 12 and two 12s. I prefer a single 10 about 600 watts in a slot port. Good for every music type.
Wait is that Seth from Seths Bike Hacks UA-cam channel?
Yes it is!!!
I was gonna ask the same thing haha, SBH is awesome👍
NO its not...
Yes
It depends.
The SD of two 10" is larger than a single 12". So if you want more bass, go for two 10". However two 10" subwoofers will take up more space and probably requires more power.
Not to forget it REALLY depends on the subwoofer unit and the enclosure.
10/10 was not expecting to find Seth here
I like the description. I've always wanted to know about baking...
Currently I've got 2 8inch audiopipe subs in my car. Kid you not, i hit lower and harder than some guys out there with 2 10's or even 12inch subs. I'm only running 800 watts on both of them. My box is custom built and tuned extremely well. Everything plays a key role when setting up your car audio. Good box+ Good sub(s)+ right amount of power = good results
Wait... isn't that guy that mountain biker guy?!
Ryan Metevier I was thinking the same thing I think it is Seths bike hacks or something like that
i thougt 2
It is lol
Perhaps he's a jack of all trade, master of none. Hahaha.
hell yea Seth's Sub Hacks
This guy is on point. All the time I hear people telling me that their 12 inch hits harder than my 10 inch and when I see what they have smh. They have different manufacturer amplifier and wrong type of box! Then I show them my Diamond 10 inch subwoofer with Diamond Class D amplifier and with the correct box. And they have this look on their face like “uhhhhhh”. It’s IMPERATIVE that you have everything EQUAL if you wanna get the most out of your audio system. Thank you for your time Lol.
I never found smaller subs to be punchier. I would say "peaky" more in the lower mid bass region. 12's tend to be "throatier". Both can hit hard but large speakers do so in a deeper fashion. The enclosure does over 80% of the work though.
Here to say “throatier” is insanely hilarious
Mountain bike and car audio info from a single source! Sweet!
Finally, someone with some logic.
The LMS-U is pretty much king of drivers, some close competitors are the RE XXX 18", UXL-18 (half the cost of the LMS, close performance). I just pre-ordered a pair of FTW-21's. They are the 21" version of the UXL-18, hand made here in Canada. Great stuff.
12"s can be punchy, even 18"s can. It's just harder to make larger subwoofers that are capable of being punchy because you need to keep the cone light or have a stronger/bigger magnet to control the bigger/heavier cone as accurately.
Holy what a gem, did not expect Seth!!
I like your no bs approach
What would give me a better sound 2 ten's with a sealed box or 1 ten in a ported box
If I have one 12 inch 250w rms sub, which of the two options would be the better upgrade?
1. Getting one more of the same model I already have, or
2. Get one 500w 12 inch sub?
I’d get a new single 12 and put the other in my spare car
"punchy" is usually the bass produced by music like techno, which is a quick, tight bass. Also similar to the bass produced by rock or metal bands. And "boomy" is the bass produced by rap and RnB...which are somewhat dragged out and in a way deeper. Two tens are going to produce more of a tight, accurate bass than one twelve. But then again it all depends on what enclosure you choose. hope it helps!
I've had the same set of Pioneer TS-W255C for the last 3 years, I've had roughly 10 or 12 different pairs of 12's and 10's before I stuck with the set I have now. Sometimes you've just got to shop around, Experiment with different boxes/amps before you can find something you actually like. I've even had a rockford 15" And a cheap Pyle 18"
i had that problem too, i got 2 10s in a bandpass box and it sounds amazing,
I love my two new Rockford Fosgate P2 10’s. Punchy as hell with my Rockford Fosgate T500 1BD amp. Had the system installed three days ago. Audio guy was playing some bass 305 through them. Felt the bass through the walls. Awesome!
tight snappy quick bass is punchy , while the boomy will be deep and carry tunes longer! not sure that makes sense but i see it in my head.
I have 1 Alpine type R and a true 1k watts. Sounds amazing. But! I listen to rock and metal and am not impressed with the bass. Would a single 10 be better than a single 12 for rock music?? Also, my box is currently tuned to 44
Hz. It's supposed to be 33hz.. Is that a huge difference in bass?
(And it's a acura car)
late reply, sealed box is better for rock doesn't matter about the subwoofer size. the lower your ported box is tuned the worse it'll sound for rock music. 44Hz is better for rock than 33Hz.
Would having 2 12s make a big difference over having 1?
Hey guys, I just got a 01 Mustang GT and the trunk is tiny. I have been using 12' subs for a long time now but I have to consider getting something smaller now.
I'm thinking 2 10's or 3 8's are my best bet. I would like to go with the 8's but I'm wondering are they a joke or can they still hit the lows? I'd also prefer a sealed box because of space issues.
Thanks
It's all about the box! I've seen setups that can take your breath away with a single driver on 300 watts if the box is built to specs. Vice versa, I've seen 1000 watt multiple driver setups that just don't hit right because the box was either off the shelf or poorly constructed. While this video may be correct to some extent, there is so much more to creating "boom" than amps and drivers.
I don't want boom, I want deep tight accurate bass. Of course as an audiophile I'm interested in great sound, not just loud for it's own sake.
now a different, yet similar question:
I'm having problems choosing between 1 kicker 40CWRT82 or 2 Polk audio db840DVC (both 8" subs)
I want to make an enclosure where the ski-hatch used to be, and like the POLK's looks over the KICKER's by miles
But the kicker has 400Wrms and the polks only 180Wrms (each)
They have same sensitivity, frequency range, etc
The kicker also is shallower and needs at least a 0,23cu.ft. box and ONE Polk needs at least 0.35cu.ft (each)
So for the Polk's I need double the money, double the space for the enclosure and have still less Wrms in total
However, TWO POLK's would have less Wrms, but DOUBLE the surface!
So would they play louder and more controlled than one kicker?
Or does the single, more powerfull (stronger magnet?) sub play better???
hope someone can clear this out?
thanks
kicker and polk make mediocre subs. i would save your money and get some respectable subs..
yeah, i already went for better subs.
after reading and calculating and comparing charts and comparing reviews, i'm going for Dayton rss210hf-4
I'll try 1 for starters and I'm quite sure it will suit the rest of the system.
was looking @3 subs in the end:
german maestro (orig. MB Quart engineers/factory) sw8010he
visaton tiw200xs
dayton rss210
the GM in the end seemed more a midbass cause low-end output was nothing to brag about
the visaton was quite similar in performance as the dayton, nice flat curve when considering 8db cabin gain, but it's power handling of 120Wrms@8ohm/180wmax vs 280Wrms@4ohm/560Wmax made me believe the dayton suits the Audison lrx1.400 amp better.
Also the dayton has FIVE year warranty, seems to have better technology for less distortion and above all, I think it looks stunning!!
also have to find the first negative comment about this sub
cheers
its like saying i have the very best piece of shit. Yes offence.
Tomoyo Sakagami L7's are loud but awful sq
American bass or soundQubed for the win all day erry day
The size of the woofer des not determine how punchy it is. Unless you're narrow minded enough to stick with mainstream brands and prefab boxes. My 12s are punchy as fuck and still get low.
Exactly. I'm glad I read the comments before typing out almost everything you said. It's all about box designs, types of subs, the power you're pushing them with, and a lot more variables. My 2 12's will hit 140 db and still remain punchy at higher Hz, and still can hit lows. And that's in a prefab box. This friday, my custom enclosure will be completed.
True, I got 2 15"'s Dayton Audio UM15-22 in my Volvo S60, they punch harder than my girlfriends dual 10"'s and also respond a lot quicker, she's gottwo SPL-Dynamics XTR-300D2. Mine are punchier and also goes deeper. Haven't even tried to play them high yet, feeding them about 600w's each and they move just a very little amount and still rocks my whole interior in a 340L box.
Of course, of course. BUT, if you simply bypass the band so there is no lows, it simply sounds much tighter and punchier. So If I really want to enjoy some track, I have to EQ it to taste. Sometimes I put -6db or even -9db EQ at 60-90Hz for some tracks, sometimes I completely attenuate everything under 35Hz. So generally, yes, smaller diameters are punchier, because these rather lack serious lows, or hit excursion limits at almost "no power". But I´m going to find out, what happens if you throw HERD of these at your problem. I hope I will get to 25-30Hz full blast with 12 pieces.
Well tbf, a muddy bass bin will sound punchy in a square-ish living room bc of cancellations. lol Well, if somebody is rich enough to build a anechoic chamber as his listening room, then good for him.
Even though he put up a good fight I have one 12 and it is punchier then my 10's at 7800watts
Just a thought, it's not loud which makes the difference. It's the clarity of the sub kicking and the resonance with respect to the mids and highs of a complete audio system.
my 21 is an incriminator audio death penalty. one of the finest subs i have ever witnessed. im currently not using it because i need to recone it. probably going to order my recone from ia on friday when i get payed. but 2 of my friends had 21" DPs as well. one was running his at 4200watts, but inverted in a box with about 10cubic feet so it blew because it requires 12 and didnt have good air flow.
So for the example of a sealed speaker box, the box volume to achieve a given Qts is proportional to Vas: V_b = \frac{V_{as}}{\alpha} Where: \alpha = \frac{Q_{tc}^2}{Q_{ts}^2}-1 Therefore a decrease in box volume and the same F3 will decrease the efficiency of the sub woofer. Similarly the F3 of a speaker is proportional to Fs: F_c = \frac{(Q_{tc}F_s)}{Q_{ts}}
best i ever heard or built....1 12 jl on a 1000w amp and an 8 closer to the seat 400w...the 12 hit very hard and that 8 added enough punchy responce to even it out...the 8 was sealed and the 12 dual ported 4" ports....in a suburban need a large vehicle for all this.....for a friend..
I'm here from his latest video. Classic stuff.
A lot of people end up buying a larger subs because they thought bigger is better. The end result is having to justify the purchase later on by saying it has "just as much" punch as smaller subs.
The fact is smaller subs = more punch (higher sq), less volume, better mid-bass. Larger subs = more muddy (less punch), more volume, better deep-bass.
That's just physics. It's just stupid how many people try to defend their own purchasing decisions. What? Your 15" is more punchy than your friend's 10" and has better sq? It may make you feel better to say that, but when I hear someone say that I automatically know they have very little understanding of car audio.
How well a sub does depends on the motor it uses and the enclosure you put it in. The size has nothing to do with the "punchy" which I still don't understand what that is even supposed to mean. More controlled? Tighter Bass? Yeah your off the shelf 15" sub with it's 60oz magnet is going to sound like dog shit in a fan for "punchy". Take a 15" Sundown NS or any other top name 15" sub with a huge motor for control and yes it would be as "punchy" as a 10". Piece of shit 10's compared to piece of shit larger subs are "punchier" because the motor to cone ratio is a lot higher than on the cheapy 15" or 18" woofer.
Steven Watson The review here was specifically mentioning comparing subs from the same brand and wattage through the line, there's not need to get interhurt. Although sundown is pretty sex and I will need to build bigger enclosures and wallets to build up to nice toys like that
The “puch” makes my car shake and the nosie is buzzy I honestly prefer less mid bass and more focused on the deep bass in music like lil baby.
all about the box. doin 139.5 on the dash, 141.2 in the kick and 161.5 in the port on around 900-1000watts AUDIOQUE FTW!
6" = 176,6 cm2
8" = 314 cm2
10" = 490,6 cm2
12" = 706,5 cm2
15" = 1104 cm2
18" = 1589,6 cm2
Well, no. Look at some speaker specs. It´s easy to run trough B&C speakers. 10" = 320cm2, 12" = 530cm2, 15" = 855cm2, 18" = 1100, 21" = 1680 or so... You have to deduct two thirds of the surround, count with manufacturers size difference, and even cone shape comes into play.
Which one is the best subwoofer to obtain a clean bass?
I use JBL-GTO-1202D on a sealed 30 liter box @ 4 ohm with 360 rms Rainbow amplifier and for me it's reproduce very nice sound.
Why are people even hating? He spoke the exact truth. I think most people dont know what theyre talking about.
hm you dont consider the magnet size, or include 15s into the mix or anything really its quite a vauge question with surface area being the only solid answer dont forget enclosure and everything else too
2 12" speakers have a surface area of 226.08, one 18" speaker has an area of 254.34, so one 18 moves more air than two 12s. the 18s are better for the crazy low bass that rattles your car apart. the box tuning is huge though
which speaker would be louder 60w-4ohm or 100w-2ohm
video is 100% correct. he said if all things are even then the more cone surface will win. for example, two kicker cvx 10's given 1000watts will be louder than one 12" cvx or one 15" cvx given 1000watts. all subs have to be in a optimum built and crafted box and each design has to be equally tuned at same frequency for this theory to be true.
Its all about the box. Nuff said.
what brand is your 21" subwoofer and how many watts are you running it at?
I'm about to cry now, this is hysterical! I know people use 18 inches for Sound Quality competitions.
How about 1x12@1500w rms vs 2x12@500w rms each?
60w < 100w, doesn't matter what ohm. It's like asking which is greater 60watts at 4ohms or at 2ohms... they are the same.
Now, if you were to ask will I get more volume, or more power, to a speaker at 4 ohms or 2 ohms? Well that depends on whether the amplifier is designed to deliver more wattage if the resistance decreases. Some amps do, some amps don't. So 100w-2ohm would be louder if the amp provides more power at 2ohm than 4ohm. 60w-4ohm would likely play at 120w-2ohm and be louder.
Wow! Wasn't expecting to see this guy here
I have a 2011 Jeep Wrangler JKU4 door and I am wondering if two 10's would sound better than 2 12's?
doesnt always depend on size, gotta think about the wattage you're putting to it. You can have 2 10's that are 300 watts a piece, so with two 10's you have 600 watts. But then you have a 12 with 300 rms just like the 10's. so the 10's would be louder do to more power. Also gotta think about that!
I have an old school solo baric 12" L7 sub in a ported box but it is farting between the musical notes and not very versatile, with my Genre of music, I was recommended 3 10" in a sealed setup for SQ. I also have a very large trunk and cabin "Lincoln Town Car" is there a subwoofer you would recommend for great musical sound quality as well lots of bass? I have an old school RF BD1500 Amp to play with, my birth sheet states 1800wrms at 2 Ohms all channels.
10s can be "boomier" if ported. just as 12s can be "punchier" if sealed. Every subwoofer is different and all fall under different categories to have different purposes either if it's for sound quality, spl or infinite baffle.
Can I add two 10” subs with one box and a separate box with a 12” on a 1000 watt amp?
Seth’s bikes hacks right here
Back many moons I started all this.
I took a monster Speaker out of a old Juke Box.
I think it was a 22" speaker
I push it with a amp booster. It only had one button on it , from Kmart
People talk about bass. I have two Bass . One for right channel and one for left channel.
Real music like led Zeppelin was recorded in Quad .
I mean it would put a tear in your eye to listen to drums go all the way around the inside of the Car.
My highs are under my seat.
Mids in Doors .
But , you in enjoy your thumper
To each its own !
What about 1 sub with 30mm xmax compared to 2 with 13mm xmax? Would cone area win or would the higher excursion move more air??
b1782w
That’s not “all things being equal”.... as said in this video.
2 twelves or 1 ten? looking to downsize for space reasons but still want the power any sugestions?
two 10 inch subs are louder but a 12 inch sub can reach lower notes and still sound good. If more speakers meant better sound then I'd have 30 door speakers in my trunk.
What would sound better for SQ? 3 10” or two 15” subs. All ported
I totally disagree with the Sound difference between different size sub woofers I recently had 4 -8’s in a ported enclosure that was tuned to 32 hz , that’s pretty boomy if you ask me. If the manufacturers specs for any size woofer range any where from 250 hz to 30 even 20 then you will here must of the bass noted in music no matter the size . With that being said cone area does effect how much volume and air you are moving. Also the bigger the woofer the more the sound waves can travel outside the car. For example 8’s would be more for SQ inside the car with a little more damping factor in control , as for the larger woofer’s sound can travel further out of the car.
Surface area was mentioned. What about group delay, QTC, xmax, cabin gain were not mentioned and there are many more variables. In 8 more years of experience you'll know enough to say there are many other things i don't know yet.
Everything being equal? Maybe maybe not. When selecting a sub I always look at the low frequency reponce and the sensitivity. Example a 10 inch sub with a sensitivity 88db and low frequency of 24 Hz would for sure will give you that earthquake thunderest bass.
You missed the part about bandpass boxes making bass even deeper then port holed/"vented".
2001 convertible camaro , gift from brother he had 2 12s in it idk Wat kind of amp but they got damaged so I'm planning on switching those out . Any recommendations ? ( brand, size , watts)
ha ya i guess it just comes down to opinion. but with the dp, it gives you about a 2cube increase inside the box with that 9in triple stacked motor and giant basket
Wth, thought I reconized this guy as Seth the bike dude. Seems it's so. What a UA-cam pro!
I was planning on using a Behringer Ep4000 bridged for each (about 2000rms). I still have to buy a MiniDSP to EQ them as well.
Mach 5 is in Winnipeg, Manitoba. They are hand built to order, no mass production on them.
I almost bought a pair of 13av.2's back in the day, it's a shame ED went under, they had some sweet products.
I frequent AVSforum (mostly the diy forum) under the name thatsnasty. There's a guy on there who uses 8x sealed 13av.2's in his theater, pretty nuts.
I agree, it called vectoring. In order for this to work the subs have to be walled in and all facing 1 direction (sealed). Like looking in a van and seeing 16 subs facing the windshield. If you face them towards each other or screw up the port tune the waves cancel out and people wonder why their bass ain't loud. More subs FTW ! and don't have any air leaks for high SPL !
What 2 10s brand u recommend for a suv truck Wich brand is good ?
@faffy S it's all about the enclosure. I have a friend with 2 image dynamic 8's powered by 100 watts a piece. He got a box design from pwk specifically for his setup. I'm running a sundown e10 running at 450-500 watts in a box that we threw together real quick and mine hits nowhere near as clean, low, or as loud.
two 10's have effective diameter of 14.14 inches.
how'd you come up with that number
they do make square woofers, kicker solobaric, n mtx ts55 n ts85
an actualy howto video from this channel that has good direct info.
you ever get it metered? I did 144.9db at 33htz with my btl. Not too bad for a low freq:p
my mate had 2 10's hit harder than 2 15's so you have a point. it can be done
i got two kicker 10 inch comps the pound if u buy it with there ported box as a package cheap good sound
They all sound 'round' because off the high mass. If you can fit one big speaker in there then that's obviously the cheaper option. Also a bigger speaker tends to have a lower fs and higher xmax. If you want hifi then you want bandwidth which means low mass which is a different speaker then a car woofer.
I am looking for a 10in sub. What would you recommend
So guys and audiophiles, I have a (1) Sundown SA-12 D2 600W Dual 2-Ohm SA Series in one sealed box and a dual Comp R in a ported box rated at 2ohms 1600 whats RMS, which one would you keep, there is the space difference. However I love the Kicker box for its sturdiness and decor. Thanks for your input!
I would buy another SA-12 and build a box for them. With enough power they will make your compR's look like kids toys.I run the 2010 CVR duel 12" enclosure on 1100 rms and while for the money they are decent...they don't compare to the SA's.
he finally gets to the point at 0:30 sec mark FYI 2 10's are louder than having just 1 12
Wich one hits harder 4 8s sundowns e8 v.6 or 3 10s punch h2x ???
My real question is would 2 12" kickers be enough to give that ground shaking bass from a couple blocks away? what would be the best setup to have bass that can be heard/felt from a distance?
2 15’s
woofer excursion it's very important, you can have small speakers giving big frequency response because the volume of air they can move is more than normal speakers, I'm not sure if 2 speakers on the same box can actually produce deeper frequencies rather than being on different boxes
Why do people usually run a pair of 10s or 12s? Is it just because it's symmetrical or something to do with soun waves? I'm considering running a JL 8w3 and a 12w3 because I think the 8 would transition better better my 5.25".What are your thoughts?
Everything would transition in a nice way, even a 15 inches one.
But if the 10” are 250w rms but db are 87? And the 12” are 150w 93db wich one is the better subwoofer⁉️
i have 2 10's in a `14 by 14 sealed enclosure and a 15 in a 17 by 18 inch 2 by 6 ported subwoofer box .... has all the hit and bass u need
What's s good cheap 12' or (x2) 10" woofer with an amp for for someone new to this?
sealed single 12 running 300w vs sealed 2 x 10inch subs running 150w each, which is gonna be louder?
Dual 10s, louder. Single 12, lower.
SPL is based on speaker efficiency (db/w/m rating) You use the speaker impedance to calculate the maximum spl for a certain amplifier. Remember a 3db difference is double or half the energy . You need 10db difference for your ear to hear double the volume or roughly 10 times the energy. So a 90db/w/m 4ohm speaker has double the energy rating for same wattage than a 87db/w/m speaker. a 500W amplifier will sound twice as loud as a 50W amplifier. Compare db/w/m ratings. Rather than sizes.
3 10" subs or 2 15" subs ? They both have a 30inch surface area ... What y'all think ?
3 10s all day!
@@FATALROTARY that's what I'm trying to do to be honest 😎
@@miguel300ish that's what I did!3 tens instead of 1 15
my single 12" sub is punchy and boomy. is it a freak? ported box,sundown Z v3 12" d1 wired to .5 on a powerbass xta-5000d.
make a video comparing 10inch subs from different makers? what makes one better than the other
nice! i love FI. when my brother was in highschool, he had an 18" btl on 5500 watts. loud as hell. i havent metered mine cuz i bought it blown and still havent reconed it. but my friends did a 149 recently. but when i wall it, i will easily be doing a 155 and up hopefully.
EVERYTHING DEPENDS ON THE BRAND & QUALITY!
Planning to put 4 12" in my truck , what would hit harder , 4 12" or 3 15"
gabriel romero you want more punch go with the 12's if you want that nice deep boom that you feel more go with the 15's , I prefer 15's personally
What about 2 10" subs in sealed box with 500 watts vs 1 12" sub in ported box with 800 watts?