I was a teenager when the first Red Dawn came out. I knew kids in High School like the ones depicted. The way they behaved felt real and believable to me. They were brave and daring and flawed. They were expressing a real fear we all had in those days. That’s why it was a much beloved movie.
One interesting difference between the two versions is product placement. Red Dawn originally had a scene were the Wolverines go to McDonalds when they first sneak back into town, only to find it's now a hangout spot for rowdy Soviets. It was featured in a lot of the promo material, but was ultimately cut from the movie. Conversely, Dead Wrong features a scene were its Wolverines burst into a Subway and proceed to rob the place. Just something I find interesting to think about.
Among the many things to dislike about Dead Wrong this is high on the list. If in a North Korean occupied US, you can still go to Subway to get a sandwich with all the fixings and drink unlimited amounts of Coke from a branded Subway cup, what exactly is so bad about the North Koreans taking over that you need to fight over it?
Agreed. A year after your comment, sadly it is only at 13K. This gentleman is thoughtful and articulate. Even if I don’t agree with absolutely everything he says, he dishes out an enormous amount of food for thought.
@@slappy8941yeah, this is the reason indies are rising up. Yet they are subject of failure because of the drama they seem to get themselves into when they become so famous. Hazbin hotel, helluva boss...and so on and on. It almost feels like the game is rigged that you always must fail no matter how good your cards may be and you have to be bad reluctantly
I'll tell you what bothered me the most. In the original Red Dawn, that group sacrificed everything, but won. The Wolverines had won. However, in the remake, that group sacrificed somethings, and, well, didn't. The only thing they did was win a chance to continue the fight. It felt like walking out of Star Wars Episode 4 right after everyone escaped from the trash compactor on the Death Star. It felt like a half finished copout.
This video is overlooking an important point: in both Vietnam and the Afghanistan the resistance fighters were not just random peasants with a can-do attitude. Rather they were both quasi-state entities which were well organized and reasonably professional. They were also supported and backed by the Soviet Union and the US respectively, who provided materiel as well as training.
And after the (complete and catastrophic failure of the) Tet Offensive South Vietnamese Guerillas where more and more replaced with regular North Vietnamese soldiers.
@@dansmith1661 Tet is the traditional Vietnamese New Year. And traditionaly a time of Peace, a bit like Christmas. And both sides had agreed to a cease fire over the Hollydays, which the Comunists then violated.
Well, that's not why I thought you'd dislike the remake. You are certainly doing an excellent job of presenting a complex and difficult to anticipate individual via your videos. (Although I'll point out that Hollywood has been eating its own tail more or less since the beginning. The oldes remake I'm aware of is the 1917 "Squaw Man," based on the 1914 "Squaw Man" and both made by William deMille. And some remakes are good ("Ocean's Eleven's" remake holds up much better than the original) whilst others are not; the difference is now we have easy access to all the older version and can more readily compare them side by side instead of trying to remember what we saw in a theatre four (or twenty) years ago.
I listened the opening remark multiple times, brilliant. One remark, Red Dawn always felt to me like an homage to old Yugoslav Partisan films. There are quite a few of them, some are monumental.
Yes, but how many Americans or even Westerners period, have seen these Yugoslav films? Even I only know they probably exist, as various East Bloc countries were known for making large-cast/state-supported military and historical patriotic films.
I think the reaIism thing needs one caveat: the quality of the east block mockups. In the Army, at the time, we watched Red Dawn and the trainer would interupt the film and have us identify the vehicle depicted, because they were better than the mockk ups we had.
@@mitchellsmith4690 Apparently the CIA was snooping around the set to find out how Milius got a Soviet T-72. Milius had to explain that he only had a US M-48 and a really, really good prop guy.
The remake have jed a marine teaching them made more sense then the 80s one. The problem was for the older movie watcher they couldn't relate because the new storyline was aim at young people at the time. Just like the 80s one was aim at us.
It’s fine, I struggle to imagine the modern Hollywood producer’s mind being able to comprehend and internalize the themes that resounded throughout the original. I’m sure he watched it at got “this is a war action movie, I will remake it by doing all the action war movie things.” Ideas of citizenship, individual action, and the American spirit are foreign to the Hollywood man. The subversion of some scenes is so deep as to be malicious. Displaying not only a lack of understanding, but almost an understanding and hatred. The blood drinking rite of passage scene, a rite that is ancient going back thousands of years - maybe more, being perverted into a joke is a stand out example. In the end, they were never capable of making a remake that understood the spirit of the original. I truly believe that only a beautiful mind can make beautiful art
"What you said was wrong"...well, not really, but dont forget that the....uhhh, realism of a military invasion was FULLY characterized, at least somewhat obliquely but VERY clearly if you're over 15yrsold, for the female Wolverines through dialogue. Cannot imagine any studio being brave enough for that level of honesty today.
What?! The female lead is a not a stronk woman who overcomes all challenges, is a veritable Rambo that shows up all her male counterparts, and actually gets treated like a woman in wartime, good & bad???! Heresy! You're going to Feminist Judge Court!
@MM22966 "Adapted" today, Deader Wrongest's lead would be a 15yrold girl of mixed race and ambiguous sexual orientation with a similarly diverse set of friends in the Wolverines. She'd already be amazing at everything...maybe a throwaway line about Delta Force and SAD being interested in her projects, but the casting would the by far the most complex thing about the movie, and of course, in the finale, our hero would take down a battalion of Iranian and Russian special forces singlehandedly. I can't wait for Ironheart!
The end of stories seems apt considering one scene in both movies. When the Wolverines become too much of a problem for the local forces, the special forces are called. In the original, you see a band of soldiers marching into town wearing their distinctive light blue berets and striped shirts. If you know your Soviet uniforms, you know they're Spetsnaz. The next scene is where the Spetsnaz Colonel delivers a speech in Russian on how to really fight guerillas. This cements their status as real bad-ass opponents, and that the battle between the two in going to be decisive In Dead Wrong, they just pan to a slavic looking person in a plain olive drab uniform and say, "The special forces are here". And the rest is just as inconsequential.
If I may, I'd like to point out that pretty much everything that the Spetsnaz commander says in the briefing had been advocated for by the Cuban colonel earlier, only to have his suggestions dismissed by the Russians he was working under.
I have yet to see the 2012 version of the movie, to be honest, I thought it looked bland at the time, seems like a good movie to laugh at with friends but little else. I guess the problem with our new movies is, like you said in your last video, an issue with the experience of the writers- the first writers cared about independence and self reliance, the new writers value other things.
I remember that I was 14 years old when the movie was released and I didn't see Red Dawn 1980s before, however, it didn't call me as much as the 1980s. Precisely, because the movie was released a couple of years after a game called Homefront that basically, I'm not kidding. Is that. A North Korean Red Dawn who had annexed South Korea and conquered Japan and built an Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere by driving out the American presence. By the way, could you give your opinion on the factions of the video game Fallout New Vegas: The New California Republic and Caesar's Legion? I admit to being Pro-Legion of Cesar but because of my displeasure for the corruption and the "laxity" of the NCR.
In the last 40 years I’ve watched the original over 100 times. I’ll be honest I was sort of expecting an 80’s “training montage” showing the Wolverines transitioning from high school kids to guerrilla fighters, but John Milius wasn’t that kind of a movie maker, thank G-d. I’ve seen the remake twice, the second time likely to remind myself why I hated it the first time! Though I did like the “training montage.” Still it, and all of the other criticisms you pointed out are on POINT!!! I DESPISE the Matt character in the remake. He is genuinely a character of his time, an emo millennial that is somehow the star quarterback, but should have really been the frontman for a Blue October cover band. The latter is way more believable. Of course this culminates in him going off script severely compromising a mission, and gets a team mate killed, to go rescue his girlfriend. AND then without ANY sense of accountability yells at his brother saying “what else was I supposed to do!” How about your F**CKING job! A more fitting end to the character would be him pleading for his life, followed by the “North Korean” captain looking square at the audience and putting a bullet in Matt’s head, followed by a collective “thank you” from the audience, followed by the “North Korean” saying “you’re welcome.”😎✌️
Homefront was basically Red Dawn 2012, but way better, until the last few missions. You can see where funds ran out. And yes, they got forced to change the Chinese to NK.
i think that the remake, very clearly shows the effect that creeping tyranny and national and/or global power consolidation has on culture. As was stated (2 to 3 minutes in) the dynamics of the two in comparison, are explicitly flipped : it's no longer about self-determination and true independence, it's about choosing one national governmental / societal faction over another (but also not having a choice, because it had already been established in the film that their actions have already burned any bridges that would have enabled them to actually semi-peaceably live under the new 'korean' regime.) Thus, peeling back enough layers, the new red dawn (dead-dawn) is about two things : 1 deconstructing, mocking, and undoing the first red dawn, and 2 it is essentially a film about promoting and preserving (obedience to) established / establishment authority, possibly for the sake of survival and quality of life (and possibly even after that regime-authority has since died ?)
I bet nobody was more pissed about the fall of soviet union than Hollywood. It has been the villain in so many bond movies,and other spy movies. Than suddenly they just fall apart,and the movie industri has to find a whole new villain. True lies managed to do that pretty well. Than it went down hill.
I have seen both versions and I definitely preferred the 1984 original. Movie remakes, especially ones based on 1980s films, rarely if ever are as good as the original. Both Homefront games were decent and are usually pretty cheap now, though like the Red Dawn remake they used North Korea as the antagonists over China.
A fantastic “Red Dawn” video game is Freedom Fighter. A fantastic game where you play as a resistance fighter taking back New York from the Soviets. The soundtrack is also fantastic, definitely top 3 game soundtracks. Hope you had a Happy 4th. 🇺🇸👍
I would never argue anything positive for the remake, but for once, I think you're off base in the analysis. The degree to which the original is about an independent band or tribe, with shades of Native American influence, going up against an industrialized power is overstated. The intro to that movie made it very clear that it wasn't so much a frontier as rural Anytown USA, the invasion seen from the vantage of kids at a high school, and the Wolverines were receiving radio messages from an obviously government-run freedom station. The self-identification was obviously American, the goals were resistance against invaders of America, and the little tribe took on a name taken from a school mascot. There's national identification, the boys reflecting a clearly American character and self-image loaded with capable good guy-isms, and while changing the protagonist from a boy to a Marine looks statist to a cynic (no offense), just having a little bit of earnest respect for the military and cops lets you see them as community members, friends, as well as The System. Then you can take it for how it was intended: the training is a plot convenience, they have skills the others need. The boys in the original RD had skills taught by their fathers; in the modern age, with survivalism being a fringe activity that might valorize some paramilitary preppers in Montana, this would be, ah, slightly un-PC. The times, they are a-changin'. The new film sucks for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that this generation doesn't have a Milius sitting around to make it. But its chief failure is simply that it's safe and lazy. It's not any more statist than any other action movie with Americans as heroes, and in a way, the suits were right: it's junk, and it's not worth pissing off the Chinese. We can find a better vehicle for that.
I'd be really curious to hear your thoughts on what I would call Australia's Red Dawn equivalent, Tomorrow When The War Began. Similar plot conceit but with a nebulous unnamed South-East Asian force as the enemy invaders. It's a 7 book series, though I'm pretty sure both goes at adapting it only bothered with the first book.
The 2012 version Red Dawn was the movie me and my old brother saw, and to be honest we like it specially me since I just noticed like it was a movie version of the videogame homefront. It sucks they change the chinese for the north koreas in fear of offending china, I'm tired of movie producers bending the knee to china like yeah I know their population is up to the billions but they are not the entire world. You still have India, Russia and South America. Anyways it was later that I discover it was a remake from the 1984 version and though I have yet to see it full (since I only watch some scene and catch on the final in TV) it's way better than the 2012 version. And since we are talking about early 2010's movies I would like to see your take on "world invasion battle los angeles"
The remake did indeed suck. I got turned onto the original via John Steinbeck’s The Moon Is Down which I believe was inspiration for the original. It’s a 1942 book and 1943 film in which a town is overrun by an aggressive neighbor and the villiagers slowly learn how to resist.
At the very least, with the North Koreans in the remake-which-shall-not-be-named, the Chinese are still on the table as an appropriate villian if a decent remake is ever considered. Today's US/China dynamics would make it more relevant than ever, too.
I was in Jr. High when that movie came out & I lived & still live in a rural state, as well as grew up shooting, hunting & reloading. When this movie came out, to me it seemed like it might as well be a documentary, just about things that were a couple years out. I never watched the remake as 90% of remakes are shit. I did watch the movie "Tomorrow When the War Began" which is sort of a Australian millennial version of "Red Dawn". I liked that move a lot too, but not quite as much as "Red Dawn".
Never seen the remake but geez you have a great point the awful modern propaganda pours of it. The west is done what happens when you let a bunch of rich fools rule you too long.
Never saw the remake because I never saw the point of it. The original was a thing of its time (and kinda flopped initially) and should be appreciated as what it was. While perhaps the underlying beats are timeless the story itself is not.
Not at all. The truth is there are "libertarian" and "authoritarian" elements both on the left and right and sometimes those elements have more in common with each other than with people on their own side.
*timidly raises hand* I....didn't hate the remake. The original is obviously 100x better, but as a basic action movie, Dead Wrong wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be.
On its own merits, Red Dawn 2012 is a decent but forgettable action movie. Like so many movies these days, it probably would have been better received if it tried to be its own thing instead of riding the coattails of a classic with name recognition.
Seems to me the Dead Wrong version suffered from what the Critical Drinker would call ‘remastered for Modern Audiences’ failure. People rarely hunt now. Most people have never held a gun. Most people have no idea how to fight anything. Most people don’t read about classic survivalists or trappers making their way in the harsh frontier. All the changes made reflect these as modern tropes that tried to bring the original into the modern era, but obviously failed miserably for those very reasons.
@@ab5olut3zero95 and that's why the protagonist and his dad were military and police, respectively. It's not statism. It's just that normal people in America today wouldn't have had fathers that taught them how to fight. If that had been held over, the movie would have looked like it was glorifying prepper gun nuts.
I am like 666. Granted it is just a number, but i needed something to bug the algorithm and AI with. . . GWOT was a thing at the time; so, the older brother being a sandbox vet is not so abnormal.
End of stories or just the triumph of poor taste? Poor taste and just lazy audiences. In a world where "Blade Runner 2049" and "The Last Duel" fail to and television shows like "The Expanse" do not gather enough support to get renewed you have to wonder who is truly driving the narrative. Accountability is never popular if you are asked to be honestly and brutally self-reflective. The fault dear westerner lies not in the stars but in ourselves. As for "Red Dawn", the new one is forgettable. The old one is a classic. A more clever writer tapped into current geopolitics could have updated the story to make a yarn involving a Chinese-Russian invasion of Alaska with a war raging across INDOPACOM in the background.
I was a teenager when the first Red Dawn came out. I knew kids in High School like the ones depicted. The way they behaved felt real and believable to me. They were brave and daring and flawed. They were expressing a real fear we all had in those days. That’s why it was a much beloved movie.
One interesting difference between the two versions is product placement. Red Dawn originally had a scene were the Wolverines go to McDonalds when they first sneak back into town, only to find it's now a hangout spot for rowdy Soviets. It was featured in a lot of the promo material, but was ultimately cut from the movie. Conversely, Dead Wrong features a scene were its Wolverines burst into a Subway and proceed to rob the place. Just something I find interesting to think about.
Among the many things to dislike about Dead Wrong this is high on the list. If in a North Korean occupied US, you can still go to Subway to get a sandwich with all the fixings and drink unlimited amounts of Coke from a branded Subway cup, what exactly is so bad about the North Koreans taking over that you need to fight over it?
"Aged like a bucket of fish"--stealing that line!
Don't insult a rotten bucket of fish by comparing it to Hollywood. At least you can get garum from that bucket.
Making garum?
@@YadraVoat A type of sauce popular in ancient Rome. Supposedly a bit like Worcestershire sauce.
@@silverjohn6037 fukuyama had nothing to do with hollywood though
this channel is so underrated u deserve 1 million subs already
Agreed. A year after your comment, sadly it is only at 13K. This gentleman is thoughtful and articulate. Even if I don’t agree with absolutely everything he says, he dishes out an enormous amount of food for thought.
With enough money and hubris, you can fix anything in post.
This is the bumper sticker.
As a kid in the 80s I loved the film. I never even bothered with the remake.
The remake could've been a lot better with just a little effort, but it was just a typical Hollywood cash-grab, with no feeling.
@@slappy8941yeah, this is the reason indies are rising up. Yet they are subject of failure because of the drama they seem to get themselves into when they become so famous.
Hazbin hotel, helluva boss...and so on and on. It almost feels like the game is rigged that you always must fail no matter how good your cards may be and you have to be bad reluctantly
2:35 "The original celebrated American self-reliance and initiative" with the perfect scene for that statement 🤣
Talking about Red Dawn while walking in snowy, rural Rocky Mountain landscapes. Life is good.
I'll tell you what bothered me the most. In the original Red Dawn, that group sacrificed everything, but won. The Wolverines had won. However, in the remake, that group sacrificed somethings, and, well, didn't. The only thing they did was win a chance to continue the fight. It felt like walking out of Star Wars Episode 4 right after everyone escaped from the trash compactor on the Death Star. It felt like a half finished copout.
In the early’90s I showed the original to a Russian GRU major I knew. He loved it 😊
It’s a good movie.
This video is overlooking an important point: in both Vietnam and the Afghanistan the resistance fighters were not just random peasants with a can-do attitude. Rather they were both quasi-state entities which were well organized and reasonably professional. They were also supported and backed by the Soviet Union and the US respectively, who provided materiel as well as training.
And after the (complete and catastrophic failure of the) Tet Offensive South Vietnamese Guerillas where more and more replaced with regular North Vietnamese soldiers.
@@comentedonakeyboard Tet Offensive was a yearly thing. Why did they call it Tet?
@@dansmith1661 Tet is the traditional Vietnamese New Year. And traditionaly a time of Peace, a bit like Christmas. And both sides had agreed to a cease fire over the Hollydays, which the Comunists then violated.
Yeah not true!
He might not come out and mention the state backing he mentions how the Dead Wrong remake conflates the characters
Well, that's not why I thought you'd dislike the remake. You are certainly doing an excellent job of presenting a complex and difficult to anticipate individual via your videos.
(Although I'll point out that Hollywood has been eating its own tail more or less since the beginning. The oldes remake I'm aware of is the 1917 "Squaw Man," based on the 1914 "Squaw Man" and both made by William deMille. And some remakes are good ("Ocean's Eleven's" remake holds up much better than the original) whilst others are not; the difference is now we have easy access to all the older version and can more readily compare them side by side instead of trying to remember what we saw in a theatre four (or twenty) years ago.
I listened the opening remark multiple times, brilliant. One remark, Red Dawn always felt to me like an homage to old Yugoslav Partisan films. There are quite a few of them, some are monumental.
Yes, but how many Americans or even Westerners period, have seen these Yugoslav films? Even I only know they probably exist, as various East Bloc countries were known for making large-cast/state-supported military and historical patriotic films.
Old red dawn is much better story-wise, though its realism is subpar. The new one is worse on both accounts.
I think the reaIism thing needs one caveat: the quality of the east block mockups. In the Army, at the time, we watched Red Dawn and the trainer would interupt the film and have us identify the vehicle depicted, because they were better than the mockk ups we had.
@@mitchellsmith4690 Apparently the CIA was snooping around the set to find out how Milius got a Soviet T-72. Milius had to explain that he only had a US M-48 and a really, really good prop guy.
The remake have jed a marine teaching them made more sense then the 80s one. The problem was for the older movie watcher they couldn't relate because the new storyline was aim at young people at the time. Just like the 80s one was aim at us.
It’s fine, I struggle to imagine the modern Hollywood producer’s mind being able to comprehend and internalize the themes that resounded throughout the original. I’m sure he watched it at got “this is a war action movie, I will remake it by doing all the action war movie things.”
Ideas of citizenship, individual action, and the American spirit are foreign to the Hollywood man.
The subversion of some scenes is so deep as to be malicious. Displaying not only a lack of understanding, but almost an understanding and hatred. The blood drinking rite of passage scene, a rite that is ancient going back thousands of years - maybe more, being perverted into a joke is a stand out example.
In the end, they were never capable of making a remake that understood the spirit of the original. I truly believe that only a beautiful mind can make beautiful art
1984 Red Dawn made director-writer John Millus persons non grata in Hollywood
🤔Really?(!)…
@@Sedgewise47 per a documentary I saw on Millus, with his cooperation
@@Sedgewise47 Yeppity. Yep. 😐
Apparently he was a huge asshole and people did not want to work with them.
No, it didn't. Just look at his filmography after 1984
"What you said was wrong"...well, not really, but dont forget that the....uhhh, realism of a military invasion was FULLY characterized, at least somewhat obliquely but VERY clearly if you're over 15yrsold, for the female Wolverines through dialogue. Cannot imagine any studio being brave enough for that level of honesty today.
What?! The female lead is a not a stronk woman who overcomes all challenges, is a veritable Rambo that shows up all her male counterparts, and actually gets treated like a woman in wartime, good & bad???!
Heresy! You're going to Feminist Judge Court!
@MM22966 "Adapted" today, Deader Wrongest's lead would be a 15yrold girl of mixed race and ambiguous sexual orientation with a similarly diverse set of friends in the Wolverines. She'd already be amazing at everything...maybe a throwaway line about Delta Force and SAD being interested in her projects, but the casting would the by far the most complex thing about the movie, and of course, in the finale, our hero would take down a battalion of Iranian and Russian special forces singlehandedly.
I can't wait for Ironheart!
The end of stories seems apt considering one scene in both movies. When the Wolverines become too much of a problem for the local forces, the special forces are called. In the original, you see a band of soldiers marching into town wearing their distinctive light blue berets and striped shirts. If you know your Soviet uniforms, you know they're Spetsnaz. The next scene is where the Spetsnaz Colonel delivers a speech in Russian on how to really fight guerillas. This cements their status as real bad-ass opponents, and that the battle between the two in going to be decisive
In Dead Wrong, they just pan to a slavic looking person in a plain olive drab uniform and say, "The special forces are here". And the rest is just as inconsequential.
If I may, I'd like to point out that pretty much everything that the Spetsnaz commander says in the briefing had been advocated for by the Cuban colonel earlier, only to have his suggestions dismissed by the Russians he was working under.
I have yet to see the 2012 version of the movie, to be honest, I thought it looked bland at the time, seems like a good movie to laugh at with friends but little else. I guess the problem with our new movies is, like you said in your last video, an issue with the experience of the writers- the first writers cared about independence and self reliance, the new writers value other things.
I think your analysis is dead on, sir. Kind of disappointed in my self for not seeing everything You've pointed out when I watched it. Great video.
Were you, once upon a time, a US Soldier, Airman, Marine, or a Sailor
We have become the children in Mad Max - Beyond Thunderdome.
“But we did the Tell right, didn’t we?”
I remember that I was 14 years old when the movie was released and I didn't see Red Dawn 1980s before, however, it didn't call me as much as the 1980s. Precisely, because the movie was released a couple of years after a game called Homefront that basically, I'm not kidding. Is that. A North Korean Red Dawn who had annexed South Korea and conquered Japan and built an Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere by driving out the American presence. By the way, could you give your opinion on the factions of the video game Fallout New Vegas: The New California Republic and Caesar's Legion? I admit to being Pro-Legion of Cesar but because of my displeasure for the corruption and the "laxity" of the NCR.
I vaguely remember that Homefront game existing.
Thanks for the New Vegas suggestion, I'm adding that to the planned lineup.
@@feralhistorian They even made a book. Homefront La Voz de la Libertad that personally explained a lot about the events.
In the last 40 years I’ve watched the original over 100 times. I’ll be honest I was sort of expecting an 80’s “training montage” showing the Wolverines transitioning from high school kids to guerrilla fighters, but John Milius wasn’t that kind of a movie maker, thank G-d.
I’ve seen the remake twice, the second time likely to remind myself why I hated it the first time! Though I did like the “training montage.” Still it, and all of the other criticisms you pointed out are on POINT!!!
I DESPISE the Matt character in the remake. He is genuinely a character of his time, an emo millennial that is somehow the star quarterback, but should have really been the frontman for a Blue October cover band. The latter is way more believable. Of course this culminates in him going off script severely compromising a mission, and gets a team mate killed, to go rescue his girlfriend. AND then without ANY sense of accountability yells at his brother saying “what else was I supposed to do!” How about your F**CKING job! A more fitting end to the character would be him pleading for his life, followed by the “North Korean” captain looking square at the audience and putting a bullet in Matt’s head, followed by a collective “thank you” from the audience, followed by the “North Korean” saying “you’re welcome.”😎✌️
Original Red Dawn has a lot of inverted Western vibes.
Homefront was basically Red Dawn 2012, but way better, until the last few missions. You can see where funds ran out.
And yes, they got forced to change the Chinese to NK.
i think that the remake, very clearly shows the effect that creeping tyranny and national and/or global power consolidation has on culture. As was stated (2 to 3 minutes in) the dynamics of the two in comparison, are explicitly flipped : it's no longer about self-determination and true independence, it's about choosing one national governmental / societal faction over another (but also not having a choice, because it had already been established in the film that their actions have already burned any bridges that would have enabled them to actually semi-peaceably live under the new 'korean' regime.)
Thus, peeling back enough layers, the new red dawn (dead-dawn) is about two things : 1 deconstructing, mocking, and undoing the first red dawn, and 2 it is essentially a film about promoting and preserving (obedience to) established / establishment authority, possibly for the sake of survival and quality of life (and possibly even after that regime-authority has since died ?)
God, did you ever nail it!
I bet nobody was more pissed about the fall of soviet union than Hollywood. It has been the villain in so many bond movies,and other spy movies. Than suddenly they just fall apart,and the movie industri has to find a whole new villain. True lies managed to do that pretty well. Than it went down hill.
This channel is way too good for the number of Subs. Haven't watched a bad video.
I have seen both versions and I definitely preferred the 1984 original. Movie remakes, especially ones based on 1980s films, rarely if ever are as good as the original.
Both Homefront games were decent and are usually pretty cheap now, though like the Red Dawn remake they used North Korea as the antagonists over China.
A fantastic “Red Dawn” video game is Freedom Fighter. A fantastic game where you play as a resistance fighter taking back New York from the Soviets. The soundtrack is also fantastic, definitely top 3 game soundtracks. Hope you had a Happy 4th. 🇺🇸👍
I would never argue anything positive for the remake, but for once, I think you're off base in the analysis.
The degree to which the original is about an independent band or tribe, with shades of Native American influence, going up against an industrialized power is overstated. The intro to that movie made it very clear that it wasn't so much a frontier as rural Anytown USA, the invasion seen from the vantage of kids at a high school, and the Wolverines were receiving radio messages from an obviously government-run freedom station. The self-identification was obviously American, the goals were resistance against invaders of America, and the little tribe took on a name taken from a school mascot. There's national identification, the boys reflecting a clearly American character and self-image loaded with capable good guy-isms, and while changing the protagonist from a boy to a Marine looks statist to a cynic (no offense), just having a little bit of earnest respect for the military and cops lets you see them as community members, friends, as well as The System. Then you can take it for how it was intended: the training is a plot convenience, they have skills the others need. The boys in the original RD had skills taught by their fathers; in the modern age, with survivalism being a fringe activity that might valorize some paramilitary preppers in Montana, this would be, ah, slightly un-PC. The times, they are a-changin'.
The new film sucks for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that this generation doesn't have a Milius sitting around to make it. But its chief failure is simply that it's safe and lazy. It's not any more statist than any other action movie with Americans as heroes, and in a way, the suits were right: it's junk, and it's not worth pissing off the Chinese. We can find a better vehicle for that.
That you said ‘Dead Wong’ till I saw the closed captioning 🤣
I'd be really curious to hear your thoughts on what I would call Australia's Red Dawn equivalent, Tomorrow When The War Began. Similar plot conceit but with a nebulous unnamed South-East Asian force as the enemy invaders. It's a 7 book series, though I'm pretty sure both goes at adapting it only bothered with the first book.
Never heard of this but now I want to read it.
I have no idea what you are talking about... they only made one Red Dawn....... just one.
The 2012 version Red Dawn was the movie me and my old brother saw, and to be honest we like it specially me since I just noticed like it was a movie version of the videogame homefront. It sucks they change the chinese for the north koreas in fear of offending china, I'm tired of movie producers bending the knee to china like yeah I know their population is up to the billions but they are not the entire world. You still have India, Russia and South America. Anyways it was later that I discover it was a remake from the 1984 version and though I have yet to see it full (since I only watch some scene and catch on the final in TV) it's way better than the 2012 version. And since we are talking about early 2010's movies I would like to see your take on "world invasion battle los angeles"
Yes, Battle of Los Angeles or whatever they ended up calling it. That's worth another look.
What city was this apartment at the end in?
Pontiac, Michigan.
I kinda expected all this when they made the new movie about fighting NKs. I knew it would be bad.
So glad I didn't see the remake!
The remake did indeed suck. I got turned onto the original via John Steinbeck’s The Moon Is Down which I believe was inspiration for the original. It’s a 1942 book and 1943 film in which a town is overrun by an aggressive neighbor and the villiagers slowly learn how to resist.
9:20 You just reminded me of the scene from Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome, with the kids telling the story of the plane crash
At the very least, with the North Koreans in the remake-which-shall-not-be-named, the Chinese are still on the table as an appropriate villian if a decent remake is ever considered. Today's US/China dynamics would make it more relevant than ever, too.
It's funny how in the early 2010's Hollywood was so obsessed with getting that Chinese movie money
I was in Jr. High when that movie came out & I lived & still live in a rural state, as well as grew up shooting, hunting & reloading. When this movie came out, to me it seemed like it might as well be a documentary, just about things that were a couple years out. I never watched the remake as 90% of remakes are shit. I did watch the movie "Tomorrow When the War Began" which is sort of a Australian millennial version of "Red Dawn". I liked that move a lot too, but not quite as much as "Red Dawn".
I always refused to watch the 2012 remake over the Chicom to Norko swap nonsense. I can see now that was a wise decision.
Swaze plays almost the exact same role he does in The Outsiders. The "old man" (19yo) among the teenagers, who they've always seen as a leader.
Never seen the remake but geez you have a great point the awful modern propaganda pours of it. The west is done what happens when you let a bunch of rich fools rule you too long.
Never saw the remake because I never saw the point of it. The original was a thing of its time (and kinda flopped initially) and should be appreciated as what it was. While perhaps the underlying beats are timeless the story itself is not.
Agree with this take.
“Kim Jong’s illest crew.” 😂
The 84 movie was way better.
Your So cool!
I was a teenager and fresh out of basic training when I saw Red Dawn. It just felt right. The remake never made sense. It just feels wrong.
Good analysis. The remake was soulless.
Totally agree.
Original RD is pre-election Reagan, 2012 is post-election Reagan.
Third time watching and I can't get past your bitter nature...
Dead Wrong, the remake noone asked for.
Is it weird that im a millennial liberal who likes Red Dawn?😅 (The original of course)
Not at all. The truth is there are "libertarian" and "authoritarian" elements both on the left and right and sometimes those elements have more in common with each other than with people on their own side.
*timidly raises hand*
I....didn't hate the remake. The original is obviously 100x better, but as a basic action movie, Dead Wrong wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be.
On its own merits, Red Dawn 2012 is a decent but forgettable action movie. Like so many movies these days, it probably would have been better received if it tried to be its own thing instead of riding the coattails of a classic with name recognition.
Seems to me the Dead Wrong version suffered from what the Critical Drinker would call ‘remastered for Modern Audiences’ failure. People rarely hunt now. Most people have never held a gun. Most people have no idea how to fight anything. Most people don’t read about classic survivalists or trappers making their way in the harsh frontier. All the changes made reflect these as modern tropes that tried to bring the original into the modern era, but obviously failed miserably for those very reasons.
@@ab5olut3zero95 and that's why the protagonist and his dad were military and police, respectively. It's not statism. It's just that normal people in America today wouldn't have had fathers that taught them how to fight. If that had been held over, the movie would have looked like it was glorifying prepper gun nuts.
@@ideologybot4592You just gave me an idea dude. Hear me out: Red Dawn in the hood
The 2012 reboot was total sacrilege.
I am like 666. Granted it is just a number, but i needed something to bug the algorithm and AI with. . . GWOT was a thing at the time; so, the older brother being a sandbox vet is not so abnormal.
Wolverines!!!
Ya, the North Korea thing was too much for my suspension of disbelief.
Aged lick a bucket of fish 🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏💪💪💪🤘🤘🤘
never saw the remake, glad I didn't.
7:07 based.
The little brother in the remake is so memorable, but only because he's an annoying character poorly portrayed by shitty acting.
See your points. Definitely prefer the original!
I love your videos, but like everyone else, you misunderstand Fukuyama.
Trade the russian helmets 4 blue ones and its not so far fetched
Dont take this the wrong way but you look like Zack Wards dad
Yeah, that's fair.
End of stories or just the triumph of poor taste? Poor taste and just lazy audiences. In a world where "Blade Runner 2049" and "The Last Duel" fail to and television shows like "The Expanse" do not gather enough support to get renewed you have to wonder who is truly driving the narrative. Accountability is never popular if you are asked to be honestly and brutally self-reflective. The fault dear westerner lies not in the stars but in ourselves.
As for "Red Dawn", the new one is forgettable. The old one is a classic. A more clever writer tapped into current geopolitics could have updated the story to make a yarn involving a Chinese-Russian invasion of Alaska with a war raging across INDOPACOM in the background.
Red Sawn the remake, is a byproduct of the triumph of capitalism