Man, I LOVE to hear really intelligent people talk about the things they're passionate about, even if I can't quite hang onto every concept while they're talking you through it. Jon is one of those people. THIS is the guy you want building whatever it is you want built. He knows his shit to the letter. He gives a damn, and you can tell. He's the kind of guy who reads all the manuals for fun. I've been around a lot of guys doing a lot of different jobs during my life, and I can spot a guy like him almost immediately. Jon is the type of guy that if there's something that you can't see on a job he did, you don't have to take it apart to see if it was done right. Even though no one would ever see it, you can rest assured, it's right.
I didn't know there was such a thing as an unoriented magnet . I assumed all magnets were oriented with 'poles' , positive and negative . Again , you made my head explode .
Jon was answering my question which was originally rather longer than as presented. The point is that the history of magnet making is to develop and produce ever stronger and more efficient magnets. And generally speaking the Alnico numbering indicates development over time, so for example Alnico 4 was developed before Alnico 5. Up to Alnico 4 the manufacturers did not orient the magnets (by applying a field during heat treatment as Jon says). So all the Alnico's up to 4 can be charged or magnetised with the bar of alloy inserted in either direction in the charger and the resulting magnet will be equally as strong. This is not true for the Alnico 5 alloy if it has been oriented (also known as anisotropic) anisotropic Alnico 5 will be stronger if it is magnetised in one direction than it will be if it is magnetised in the other direction. The Alnico 5 alloy is designed to be oriented, it would normally always be manufactured with the orienting treatment applied and the reason for designing Alnico 5 and orienting it was to make a stronger magnet. However from what Jon is saying it seems like Alnico 5 alloy magnets did, on occasion and for whatever reason, leave the factory in the old days without being oriented and sometimes found their way into Gibson pickups. Gibson seem to have been very unconcerned about exactly which type of Alnico they used, as long as their pickups had magnets in them, that seemed to be good enough. The fact that Alnico 5 is usually manufactured oriented, but delivered to pickup manufacturers uncharged, may explain why single coil pickups often seem to have a lot of variation in strength across all six magnets. It is impossible to tell by just looking at an Alnico 5 rod magnet which direction it is oriented unless it is marked by the manufacturer, so they may get assembled into pickups in random orientation. As far as I know single coil pickups are often charged after assembly.
I wish you guys were my uncles....I would drink cod liver oil with you all night and reminisce about the vintage, not so long ago past. Looking forward to getting a set of Throbak KZ115 PAF's with A5's.
Unoriented A5 magnets sound good in the neck pickup if the coils are asymmetrical and low resistance. There isn't as much bass response and it's less muddy. When is the next Throbak Thursday?
There’s another PAF maker that spot degauz every magnet to remove hot spots do you think there is a value and difference to the sound.? Do you also do this to each magnets you buy?
This was not done with vintage P.A.F. pickups. Since ThroBak makes a vintage P.A.F. Retro we also do not do this. I should say that variation in charge at the magnet does not seem to have much impact once the charge reaches the top of the pickup poles.
From what I’ve been told by a couple other pickup makers is it is not so much the wire diameter, but the impurity’s in the wire. Supposedly some wire from the 50’s /60’s contained lead & silver besides the copper. What’s your opinion/ take on that? Cheers!
MosriteCharlie they are much flatter and much wider, with less windings as a result because of less space with a shorter bobbin. Google pictures of them! I'm putting together a Jazzmaster and just dove into this myself
I just subscribed. Question. I have a Les Paul Special with P-100s with tiny brass insert pickup anchors. The inserts have pulled out of the wood. I want to put in a pair of P-90s. In your opinion what would be the best way to mount them? Should I epoxy the inserts in and use longer springs? Or use wood screws directly into the body with longer springs? Maybe put in a riser block? Should I try to find P-90 mounting plates? Do you sell the plates?
I would glue the insert back in place and I would shim the bottom if the the pickup with wood spacers until you get the desired height if the pickups are not wax potted. If they are P100 pickups they are probably wax potted so in that case I would use the springs.
Is there yet another variation - oriented Alnico 5 that has been charged with the field direction the wrong way around. I guess from time to time that must happen. Do you charge your oriented Alnico 5 yourself and is it supplied with markings to show which way it should be charged? Sorry, I keep posing nit picky questions about magnets ;-)
ThroBak charges our own magnets and we mark the poles so the magnet can be properly placed in the pickup. Gibson Kalamazoo charged there own magnets. I have seen no vintage examples of pickups that were charged with the magnet improperly placed in magnetic field.
Would adding brass, nickel or steel underneath a humbucker in the pickup cavity increase the magnetic field/output. I’ve seen companies like Callahan offer steel base plates to increase strat pickups output
Its not an out of phase sound, I now get 99% of the way to Jimmy Page’s specific quack with cheap alnico 5 paf clones balanced for roughly equal volume into a crunchy tube amp with little bass, and a lot of mids and treble. To me the secret is thin strings (super slinky’s) and hitting them hard enough where they choke out and it hits the pickup in a certain way that, with the right pickup height/volume and tone control settings into the right amp sound, achieve Jimmy’s quack
i have a question about tuning, i've been playing for 4 years now and i wanna play songs from a band i realy like but i cant play the songs i like the most because i cant tune my guitar in c sharp .. the highest strings (thin ones duh) wont get the sound that they are suposed to have in c sharp from low to high i can only tune like this c# g# c# f# A and finaly D but not a# and d#, i cant find the problem anywhere on the internet and none of my friends have any clue, maybe the strung thicness? or do i need to do something on my guitar tuner, i hope i guys can help me with this isue.
Unoriented A5 magnets sound good in the neck pickup if the coils are asymmetrical and low resistance. There isn't as much bass response and it's less muddy. When is the next Throbak Thursday?
Man, I LOVE to hear really intelligent people talk about the things they're passionate about, even if I can't quite hang onto every concept while they're talking you through it. Jon is one of those people. THIS is the guy you want building whatever it is you want built. He knows his shit to the letter. He gives a damn, and you can tell. He's the kind of guy who reads all the manuals for fun. I've been around a lot of guys doing a lot of different jobs during my life, and I can spot a guy like him almost immediately. Jon is the type of guy that if there's something that you can't see on a job he did, you don't have to take it apart to see if it was done right. Even though no one would ever see it, you can rest assured, it's right.
Please bring back the long format long discussion we need your thoughts we need help out here, the more the better, thank you for all the help
I didn't know there was such a thing as an unoriented magnet . I assumed all magnets were oriented with 'poles' , positive and negative .
Again , you made my head explode .
Jon was answering my question which was originally rather longer than as presented. The point is that the history of magnet making is to develop and produce ever stronger and more efficient magnets. And generally speaking the Alnico numbering indicates development over time, so for example Alnico 4 was developed before Alnico 5.
Up to Alnico 4 the manufacturers did not orient the magnets (by applying a field during heat treatment as Jon says). So all the Alnico's up to 4 can be charged or magnetised with the bar of alloy inserted in either direction in the charger and the resulting magnet will be equally as strong. This is not true for the Alnico 5 alloy if it has been oriented (also known as anisotropic) anisotropic Alnico 5 will be stronger if it is magnetised in one direction than it will be if it is magnetised in the other direction. The Alnico 5 alloy is designed to be oriented, it would normally always be manufactured with the orienting treatment applied and the reason for designing Alnico 5 and orienting it was to make a stronger magnet.
However from what Jon is saying it seems like Alnico 5 alloy magnets did, on occasion and for whatever reason, leave the factory in the old days without being oriented and sometimes found their way into Gibson pickups. Gibson seem to have been very unconcerned about exactly which type of Alnico they used, as long as their pickups had magnets in them, that seemed to be good enough.
The fact that Alnico 5 is usually manufactured oriented, but delivered to pickup manufacturers uncharged, may explain why single coil pickups often seem to have a lot of variation in strength across all six magnets. It is impossible to tell by just looking at an Alnico 5 rod magnet which direction it is oriented unless it is marked by the manufacturer, so they may get assembled into pickups in random orientation. As far as I know single coil pickups are often charged after assembly.
I wish you guys were my uncles....I would drink cod liver oil with you all night and reminisce about the vintage, not so long ago past. Looking forward to getting a set of Throbak KZ115 PAF's with A5's.
My pastor, former guitarist for Nick Danger and the Heat, plays a 56 LP that's been fitted with P90s and 50s wired. Sounds amazing.
Where you gone guys?
Unoriented A5 magnets sound good in the neck pickup if the coils are asymmetrical and low resistance. There isn't as much bass response and it's less muddy.
When is the next Throbak Thursday?
Please tell us about the DS-55 next time! I'm very interested.
Where have you guys gone ? Come back soon please ! :-)
The "dog" they called it a dagget was a monkey. Frack was from the reboot. The original used feldercarb.
There’s another PAF maker that spot degauz every magnet to remove hot spots do you think there is a value and difference to the sound.? Do you also do this to each magnets you buy?
This was not done with vintage P.A.F. pickups. Since ThroBak makes a vintage P.A.F. Retro we also do not do this. I should say that variation in charge at the magnet does not seem to have much impact once the charge reaches the top of the pickup poles.
WIll you some day release the 1959 Gibson Melody Maker pickup? (the original large one, not the smaller 1960 and later version)
Probably not. I don’t have enough demand to justify the cost of making the parts.
From what I’ve been told by a couple other pickup makers is it is not so much the wire diameter, but the impurity’s in the wire. Supposedly some wire from the 50’s /60’s contained lead & silver besides the copper.
What’s your opinion/ take on that? Cheers!
Are the pickups used on the Fender Jazzmaster and Mosrite guitars PO-90's? If not, what are they?
These are different than a Gibson P90. The differences include dimensions of the coil former and differences in magnets.
MosriteCharlie they are much flatter and much wider, with less windings as a result because of less space with a shorter bobbin. Google pictures of them! I'm putting together a Jazzmaster and just dove into this myself
I just subscribed. Question. I have a Les Paul Special with P-100s with tiny brass insert pickup anchors. The inserts have pulled out of the wood. I want to put in a pair of P-90s. In your opinion what would be the best way to mount them? Should I epoxy the inserts in and use longer springs? Or use wood screws directly into the body with longer springs? Maybe put in a riser block? Should I try to find P-90 mounting plates? Do you sell the plates?
I would glue the insert back in place and I would shim the bottom if the the pickup with wood spacers until you get the desired height if the pickups are not wax potted. If they are P100 pickups they are probably wax potted so in that case I would use the springs.
Is there yet another variation - oriented Alnico 5 that has been charged with the field direction the wrong way around. I guess from time to time that must happen. Do you charge your oriented Alnico 5 yourself and is it supplied with markings to show which way it should be charged? Sorry, I keep posing nit picky questions about magnets ;-)
ThroBak charges our own magnets and we mark the poles so the magnet can be properly placed in the pickup. Gibson Kalamazoo charged there own magnets. I have seen no vintage examples of pickups that were charged with the magnet improperly placed in magnetic field.
Would adding brass, nickel or steel underneath a humbucker in the pickup cavity increase the magnetic field/output. I’ve seen companies like Callahan offer steel base plates to increase strat pickups output
Yo mcfly any videos on the way,
Is A5 the only Alnico magnet to do the oriented/unoriented thing?
This is the only magnet used in a vintage PAF that I have seen doing this.
How do you get good “quack” in the middle position? Like Jimmys live 75 tone and others for example
Its not an out of phase sound, I now get 99% of the way to Jimmy Page’s specific quack with cheap alnico 5 paf clones balanced for roughly equal volume into a crunchy tube amp with little bass, and a lot of mids and treble. To me the secret is thin strings (super slinky’s) and hitting them hard enough where they choke out and it hits the pickup in a certain way that, with the right pickup height/volume and tone control settings into the right amp sound, achieve Jimmy’s quack
Can you charge the top of an unorieanted alnico 5, or do u still have to charge the sides.
You still charge it in the direction of the application. So yes you charge the sides.
@@ThroBakChannel I was thinking something else when u said unorieanted, I know how to charge a magnet, I get it know. Thanks
i have a question about tuning, i've been playing for 4 years now and i wanna play songs from a band i realy like but i cant play the songs i like the most because i cant tune my guitar in c sharp .. the highest strings (thin ones duh) wont get the sound that they are suposed to have in c sharp from low to high i can only tune like this c# g# c# f# A and finaly D but not a# and d#, i cant find the problem anywhere on the internet and none of my friends have any clue, maybe the strung thicness? or do i need to do something on my guitar tuner, i hope i guys can help me with this isue.
Skwiiss maybe you need heavier strings and a tuner. Little strings won't cut it as they will go out of tune easily.
Unoriented A5 magnets sound good in the neck pickup if the coils are asymmetrical and low resistance. There isn't as much bass response and it's less muddy.
When is the next Throbak Thursday?