another point I believe the game mentions but is for sure outside of this, Tattooine once DID have resources. they were stripped away. and when the natives rebelled the Rakatans glassed almost all of the surface. It was a Jungle World, but its oceans were boiled and its surface decayed into sand over thousands of years. From this- specifically fallout shelters and the like- came the Jawa and Tuskens, two different species who engaged with the aftermath in their own way. the Tuskens are xenophobic from never having had good relations with offworlders, to them, any non-Tuksen adult is a threat and potential danger. (also, they have sometimes adopted outside people lost in the desert, especially younger people, in old Legends, They are not monsters, simply a long shit on group of people who do not trust people without them having proved their willingness to not be violent, and of course some of their tribes are more aggressive than others.
It's mentioned in parts during the quest that it was once was a lush world etc, but you get the detail about the Infinite Empire scourging the planet from the Storyteller. Which you know, does go some way to explaining why they're not keen on helping out Czerka.
also, I do have a question around 29:29 where you're talking about the lightside points you don't get simply for not doing a genocide. Do you gain them in the process? Like, turning in the quest doesn't, but do you still _end up_ net positive? I genuinely don't know, I've only watched the game played, not played myself. (the engine just doesn't do it for me, which kinda sucks because I _am_ missing out on playing one of the best games of all time, but i'm interested in the text of this one more than the gameplay anyway, so... the experience isn't the same but i get most of what i'm looking for)
It depends on if you choose to play consistently or not, like you can just do evil stuff along the way and just not do genocide at the end of it. The game still has this sort of pre-2010s "the ultimate decider of whether your good or bad is the final decision" style of narrative, but in my experience if you play consistently you come out net-positive and move in that direction.
@SKTheCrusader Yeah, that makes sense. It seems the way you describe it like there's a lot of subquests involved that would give you lightside of their own? Of course, you could also do those quests, get your benefits, and *then* do the genocide, just like the reverse. Games are wild, lmao.
Yes, approaching in disguise/under a false flag and then attacking is a war crime (Perfidy) unless you declare your own flag before you engage with the opposing force.
17:40 I've never heard this type of argument. Ever. If anything, we whine about the opposite: everything becoming safe to appeal to the wider audience. What I've heard is that it sucks when an author's agenda is being clumsily and very obviously shoved into the game. Hence "keep politics out of games", because "please don't insert your personal political agenda when it negatively interferes with the porduct's quality" isn't quite catchy enough. I guess it's really easy to win the argument when your opponent is made of straw. 21:40 Bioware did a terrible job. Most of these games do a terrible job because your character supposed to be a hero, so it devolves into being a jerkass and extorting lunch money. To be fair, the only game that I've played where evil path looked believable from a narrative perspective was the Mask of the Betrayer.
If you think there isn't a broader cultural issue among some (not all) people in these communities who react negatively to depicting the kind of issues shown in this game then I don't know what to tell you other than we're perhaps encountering different people. Largely disagree on the specifics of this game doing a bad job in Star Wars the dark side has to have this cartoonish element because of the simplicity of the moral framework, but in general I agree "evil" paths are poorly done because they do tend to devolve into "I'll just take this" and then you take it. Unsatisfying to say the least.
here's the thing, if you continue on the path of the dark side in KOTOR, you stop being the hero. you slowly devolve from easy actions that aren't that big of a problem, to you betraying half of your team and MURDERING most of your teamates. includeing being able to force one of them to kill the other. yeah. in Kotor, your character stops being a hero. people didn't get the chance to pull you away, and so you probobly doom the entire galaxy. Also, about the first thing, while he didn't word it the best. there are a large number of people who call others snowflakes but can't handle "too many black people" in a game. that get EXTREMELY UPSET at a black protagonist, and if you DARE even THINK about makeing a female character less sexualized, they will SCREAM till the ends of the earth. my best example is the pronouns rant by some idiot about starfield. these people exist.
Legitimately I thought i over a bit, and concluded 'no, I don't'. Now, I am not a huge star wars fan. However I do generally enjoy star wars. I'm just not particularly into it. There are scenes that I like a lot and can recall with decent clarity, but no particular "that scene" for me. So if you're curious what it would take to draw a blank to this question, well, there you go!
Have you heard the tale of Darth Sinan...?
A tragic tale. Lost their deposit in a lightsaber-related incident.
another point I believe the game mentions but is for sure outside of this, Tattooine once DID have resources. they were stripped away. and when the natives rebelled the Rakatans glassed almost all of the surface. It was a Jungle World, but its oceans were boiled and its surface decayed into sand over thousands of years. From this- specifically fallout shelters and the like- came the Jawa and Tuskens, two different species who engaged with the aftermath in their own way. the Tuskens are xenophobic from never having had good relations with offworlders, to them, any non-Tuksen adult is a threat and potential danger. (also, they have sometimes adopted outside people lost in the desert, especially younger people, in old Legends, They are not monsters, simply a long shit on group of people who do not trust people without them having proved their willingness to not be violent, and of course some of their tribes are more aggressive than others.
It's mentioned in parts during the quest that it was once was a lush world etc, but you get the detail about the Infinite Empire scourging the planet from the Storyteller. Which you know, does go some way to explaining why they're not keen on helping out Czerka.
One of my all time favorite games
It still holds up even after all this time.
The scene with the Wampa. No idea why, it just stuck with me from seeing it as a kid.
also, I do have a question around 29:29 where you're talking about the lightside points you don't get simply for not doing a genocide. Do you gain them in the process? Like, turning in the quest doesn't, but do you still _end up_ net positive? I genuinely don't know, I've only watched the game played, not played myself. (the engine just doesn't do it for me, which kinda sucks because I _am_ missing out on playing one of the best games of all time, but i'm interested in the text of this one more than the gameplay anyway, so... the experience isn't the same but i get most of what i'm looking for)
It depends on if you choose to play consistently or not, like you can just do evil stuff along the way and just not do genocide at the end of it. The game still has this sort of pre-2010s "the ultimate decider of whether your good or bad is the final decision" style of narrative, but in my experience if you play consistently you come out net-positive and move in that direction.
@SKTheCrusader Yeah, that makes sense. It seems the way you describe it like there's a lot of subquests involved that would give you lightside of their own? Of course, you could also do those quests, get your benefits, and *then* do the genocide, just like the reverse. Games are wild, lmao.
The scene where anakin talks about sand
Yes, approaching in disguise/under a false flag and then attacking is a war crime (Perfidy) unless you declare your own flag before you engage with the opposing force.
17:40 I've never heard this type of argument. Ever. If anything, we whine about the opposite: everything becoming safe to appeal to the wider audience.
What I've heard is that it sucks when an author's agenda is being clumsily and very obviously shoved into the game. Hence "keep politics out of games", because "please don't insert your personal political agenda when it negatively interferes with the porduct's quality" isn't quite catchy enough.
I guess it's really easy to win the argument when your opponent is made of straw.
21:40 Bioware did a terrible job. Most of these games do a terrible job because your character supposed to be a hero, so it devolves into being a jerkass and extorting lunch money. To be fair, the only game that I've played where evil path looked believable from a narrative perspective was the Mask of the Betrayer.
If you think there isn't a broader cultural issue among some (not all) people in these communities who react negatively to depicting the kind of issues shown in this game then I don't know what to tell you other than we're perhaps encountering different people.
Largely disagree on the specifics of this game doing a bad job in Star Wars the dark side has to have this cartoonish element because of the simplicity of the moral framework, but in general I agree "evil" paths are poorly done because they do tend to devolve into "I'll just take this" and then you take it. Unsatisfying to say the least.
here's the thing, if you continue on the path of the dark side in KOTOR, you stop being the hero. you slowly devolve from easy actions that aren't that big of a problem, to you betraying half of your team and MURDERING most of your teamates. includeing being able to force one of them to kill the other. yeah. in Kotor, your character stops being a hero. people didn't get the chance to pull you away, and so you probobly doom the entire galaxy.
Also, about the first thing, while he didn't word it the best. there are a large number of people who call others snowflakes but can't handle "too many black people" in a game. that get EXTREMELY UPSET at a black protagonist, and if you DARE even THINK about makeing a female character less sexualized, they will SCREAM till the ends of the earth. my best example is the pronouns rant by some idiot about starfield. these people exist.
I’m autistic so I was confused and didn’t think of a scene because you didn’t give a specific movie
Legitimately I thought i over a bit, and concluded 'no, I don't'. Now, I am not a huge star wars fan. However I do generally enjoy star wars. I'm just not particularly into it. There are scenes that I like a lot and can recall with decent clarity, but no particular "that scene" for me. So if you're curious what it would take to draw a blank to this question, well, there you go!