We have had 3 major engine repairs (all for this issue) with our 2018 Escape BEFORE 30K miles. I think it has the 1.5L engine. I cannot imagine how much this has cost Ford, but I do know it has cost them a customer. Thank you for explaining it much better than our service advisors.
I have a 2003 3.0 V6 Duratec Escape. Apart from a few oil leaks and a bad PCV valve, it's been pretty good and has 250,000 kms on the clock. Sad to see manufacturers going backwards.
Hey man. If three issues occurred with same part you can petition to have a lemon law take place. Making them buy it back for full price. Then you can switch.
Two things amaze me here: 1. The engineers actually thought that block with the slit was a good idea. 2. That poor design actually worked at all for any period of time.
I watch the engine tear downs on the I Do Cars channel and he’s pulled apart a Nissan 3.5 and a Chrysler 3.6 Pentastar that had this slit between the cylinder design. The Nissan had a lot of metal between each cylinder so maybe not an issue for them. The Pentastar had maybe a bit more between the cylinders than the EcoBoosts, but idk if those have any similar issues.
I used to work as a mechanic for two big american automotive companies...one begins with a C and the other begins with F. I have over 30 years experience as a ASE certified mechanic, I asked a question to one of the very big corporate bosses when he came to visit. I asked him off to the side why the cars the company produced were becoming so unreliable...I swear he said this, why do we want to build a car that lasts 20 or 30 years? We now follow the same marketing as cell phone companies. We only build cars to last maybe 5 to 10 years at most so we keep people coming back and spending more money. For the customers who dont get the warranties they pay the price. I was so shocked i quit working as a mechanic, the corruption is off the charts!
@@PLAYERSLAYER_22 no problem, just some more food for thought. If a car has any of the following features dont buy it, Auto start stop/ Displacement on demand-cylinder deactivation/Direct injection...all these devices are EPA nonsense and do more damage to the vehicle then help the environment.
At one point in time I was the record holder at the Ford Dealership I once worked for as a tech, I ended up having 12 Escapes back lined waiting for parts and block too. The process was insane especially when I had to use dollies to achieve this operation at times. These warranty repair orders were a nightmare at first until the process was refined.
LOL!! I used to work at a welding supply chain store as a service tech and I had the same thing with the Miller XMT Inverter welders. I worked there for something like 2 years and I never once had a day that I didn't have at least one of the POS machines set in cue for a major overhaul and almost all were 100% under warranty. If you ever want to buy a good product talk to the service techs, not the salespeople. A service tech will tell you what machines they see the most and what ones they never see. A salesperson will try to get you to buy whatever they make the most commissions on even if it is absolute garbage.
@@tcmtech7515 I have two of those in my shop that the boss refuses to admit there's anything wrong with because it will turn on and weld good for the first hour or so but it eventually fucks up and he says we are making it up lol. Sent them in to get repaired and they came back saying there's nothing wrong and we had to pay for their diagnostic time.
@@tcmtech7515 I just walked over to check them out and they are "450 XMT CC/CV" lol trash machines for sure. For what we bought them for used and service fees, we could have had new everlast machines. These machines are the reason I went with an everlast and it seems to be holding up well.
I'm a tech at a Toyota dealer. A while ago we sold a used 17 Lincoln MKC with the 2.0 and it came back to us over the summer with this exact issue at around 125k. Hearing that they updated the engine makes me very glad that we sourced a fresh long block from the Ford dealer next door rather than getting a used motor. Ironically the long block was cheaper than a used motor, even with adding on a turbo due to coolant in the oil.
@@matthewdoyle3513 We see the occasional 3rd Gen for EGR issues, not too many for head gaskets. I don't think its that Toyota chose a design that fails around 150k, but rather that some start failing around that point. It's likely due to owner habits and driving conditions because we've seen 3rd gens with over 200k that haven't had any major engine repairs of that nature done.
@J D I know many with MKC with zero issues, myself included. Very nice vehicle, especially for the $ in comparison to other. Every mfg, and vehicle model made can experience issues
This validated my decision not to buy an Ecoboost Fusion for my wife. At the time I didn't know about the head gaskets blowing out. I just assumed there would be unforeseen problems. She's been very happy with the naturally aspirated 2.5L.
I was happy with a "used" '13 Focus SE N/A that I owned for 5yrs and put 50kmiles on. Except for a failed TCM (replaced FREE) at 73kmiles, the car was FUN to drive AND trouble free! I sold it because it lacked "usability". Being a "sedan", it was hard to fit large items THROUGH the trunk opening. I SHOULD have bought the HATCHBACK version!!!
@@kyzor-sosay6087 No. Toyota stopped making really reliable stuff since 2010. Their value comes from fan boys that think Toyota is as reliable as they were in the 90's, but they aren't. Mazda isn't much for reliability either now. Buy from whatever brand you want, but do some actual research. They all make good cars, they all make terrible design choices like Ford did here.
Not sure it's a bean counter issue. I mean, sure, not wanting to redesign the block and cost thereto, there's that, but more a 'we need more cooling, how do we do this?' issue, and they came up with a wrong solution thinking it'd be ok, then finding out later that they dun messed up. Not letting them off the hook for this, of course, someone in the engineering team should have said "yknow... that seems fraught" and made them figure out something else. These are the challenges of trying to get 10 lbs of hrspwrs outta a 5 lb block though. Heat's a female dog.
@@mikeybhoutex Its not. The cycle time and tooling costs are going to be negligible for the hole vs the slot. Its just a poor design. These companies just never seem to learn from their past mistakes and mistakes made by other companies. Its common sense when you have higher cylinder pressures you need a generous amount of sealing surface for the head gasket to seal long term.
@@mikeybhoutex Pretty much a no-brainer that cutting a slit in the block to pass water would be an issue. Wouldn't have to be an engineer to see that problem. But just one more time where a lawsuit has to be filed to get a company to own up to it!
I own a 09 Ford Ranger Sport, regular cab, short bed, with the 2.3 ltr. Mazda engine with an automatic. It was was built in the Twin Cities assembly plant just before they shut down. Kudos to the folks that built it. It's still as tight as the day I drove it home from the dealership and now has over a 190,000 miles on it. It's been used and abused and still running strong..Something we may never see again from Ford...
My 02 with the same engine but stick and built in the New Jersey plant before they shut it down. Only found one minor flaw in their build. 255,000 miles still runs and drives great! Makes me never want to buy a new truck even if they had not priced themselves out of the market.
It's mostly a Ford engine >> The Duratec 23, also known as the Mazda L engine, is a 2.3-liter naturally aspirated four-cylinder from Ford Motor used to power compact and midsize cars, pickup trucks and utility vehicles, or more commonly known as CUVs. Featuring a dual overhead cam (DOHC) design, in an inline configuration, the Ford Duratec 23 engine has been part of the Ford Duratec engine family since 2001........ This engine was developed in partnership with Mazda (part of the MZR family), but under Ford ownership, which explains why it was used in a variety of different vehicle applications from one brand to the next. Such variations also meant that a slew of different technologies were grafted onto the engine as it evolved, things like a direct injection spark ignition (DISI), turbocharging, and Ford’s now ubiquitous Twin Independent Variable Camshaft Timing (Ti-VCT). The Ford 2.3L Duratec 23 engine is derived from the Ford Duratec 20 ,
Same thing with the Volvo RN engines. When the bore was increased to 2.5L the area between the cylinders became marginally thin. Mine actually cracked during an overboost.
was looking for this comparison.. As soon as i saw this block, i thought oh when ford bought Volvo and took on the white block they thought this is great we can do this. They tried and this looks to be the result. The Volvo 2.3 and 2.4 RN engines were perfect!
Same thing with the Subaru boxer engines the 2.0 has thicker cylinder walls than the 2.5 also why the stock head gaskets always blow at around 80 to 100k on the 2.5 turbos they cant handle the pressure. Shocking to see this is still happening all these years later with ford do they not test there engines then? I am guessing there testing procedure is nothing like Toyotas.
I agree.... I just see the "fix" as a pre-established crack just waiting to happen (cross drilled hole) and secondly, just wait till it gets blocked by corrosion, etc...... then watch the engine come apart again. band aid fix on a major design problem!
How many design and management checks and balances had to fail to let that out the door with a lifetime statistic mostly greater than warranty but short enough for negative consumer perception?
its only extra slots, normal,,cars dont have them..plus, if they made the blocks 1/4 longer,,it would matter as ther,d be enough surface area..this is how weight, fuel, epa,greenies fk us up..
You got me through the dark days of my 5.4 Triton. I became a DIY expert thanks to your tutelage. Some of these engineering decisions are mind boggling. I would venture to bet that top 10 techs on UA-cam could design better products based on how many failure points they encounter.
That's not hard to do. Just look at the failing points, and redesign it exactly opposite how they designed it. So that slit in the block, just hit "ctrl, z" in blender, and boom, you got the reliable version of the 2.0 that existed in 2013/14.
Chrysler figured out that cross drill idea back in 1988. The engineers supposedly determined that it kept the head gasket about 70 degrees cooler between the cylinders.
I guarantee that the engineers at Ford didn't want to do that and some guy wearing a suit and holding a checkbook came and overrode him and here we are...
I dont know what happened here, my guess having experience in engine development is that the slit was never there until they had cooling issues during testing in later stages of development. The solution here was probably "we got to redesign the block" potentially causing a 12-18 month delay, which would cascade to the vehicle platform being delayed. With that, the engineering managers were pushed to find a workaround solution to keep the program on schedule. This is more common that you realize, in this case it was a huge failure in design. When I was at Ford on development projects, meeting timing is very high priority.
I've never watched any of your videos before. But I found your channel because I just bought a 2017 ford edge and have this issue and came upon your video. You explained it so well that I have subscribed to your channel. Thank you sir! I will enjoy watching more of your videos. :)
They know exactly what they're doing. Almost every Ford model has a class action lawsuit. They still profit. As you said, once repaired it will still fail unless someone re-engineered it for a new engine/ software/ ecu/ legislative processes and we know no one will do that. So Ford, even if they don't do the repairs themselves will make money off of parts or some sales. And recently they just say sorry that part is on permanent backorder. Meaning we've loop-holed our requirements to support a vehicle for a certain number of years. And they know all too well in this day and age you can produce garbage, treat your customers like crap and they'll line up in a couple years time to get a worse deal. Look at Apple.
I don’t think that’s correct. If they can’t fix your car, you can make them buy it back. Lemon laws are different in every state but they cannot screw you. Laws are in place so that it doesn’t happen. The only people who get screwed are the ones who don’t know how to deal with it
A corporation can write-off losses and legal expenses. They have very little incentive to "get things right" above an outright consumer boycott (which will never happen). There are just as many pissed off GM consumers going to Chrysler....pissed off Chrysler people going to Ford, etc. all the time.
Likely they collect all the dissatisfied VAG customers who have experienced years of crap with VW FSI, TFSI and TDI also on Skodas, Audis and Seats. Theres common saying: Every day lots of dummies awake in the morning just to be taken in by VW dealers
Not just Ford but all of them. Nearly every vehicle or engine made today has a significant failure point in the design which is not correctable except by a new design which will come from the same people who designed the first failure. And the usual is that if the failed part is such that aftermarket manufacturers can't fairly easily improve and manufacture the failed part better while making a profit means that when the piss-poor OE parts run out all examples of that vehicle or engine become scrap metal no matter how good and useable everything else is.
Thank you for pointing out problems like this. John Q Public has no clue these types of failures are out there waiting for them. Any bets that the cross drill modifications fail due to the tiny holes becoming clogged with debris? One would think in the design stage they would make these blocks 1inch longer and give the cyl proper cooling especially since they turbo the heck out of them. Who in their right mind would think this (the slot fix) was ok? I'll give the drill hole fix 30,000 miles before they start overheating and blowing out the new head gaskets.
Mine failed over the last year in my 16 Edge 2.0. Said it had a #4 misfire and I replaced the coil pack on it. Next time I started the car it randomly smoked half the neighborhood out and I smelled Coolant burning. Luckily it was a Certified Ford car so new long block went in it last week and will be getting it back this Wednesday hopefully. Only have to pay for the 100 dollar deductible so I'm actually pretty happy lol. Only 70k miles on the old motor though
Because that would cost a fortune not only in retooling a foundry, but perhaps in packaging multiple platforms and even more model lines while, here, they can hope the cars blow up after warranty or get junked for bad transmissions or something else before it goes. I also have little faith the holes will be a true fix.
@@mitchkelleher7972 No, why not make it an inch longer from day 1? I guess they decided they had to siamese the cylinder bores for strength and stability, but what kind of graduate engineer then decided it was a good risk to put a slit in the head gasket right where the cylinders join? There's only 2~3mm of gasket either side of the coolant passage.
The Ford TSB covering this issue provides build dates for the Escape. But on the Lincolns it mentions an engine base number. Ie look for 910. My Escape is just before the cutoff date, but my Cleveland engine number is 920. Trying to figure out if on May 2, 2019 I got the revised design. Still have 7 months of power train warranty. Probably going to dump it.
If the block was two or three inches longer they could have spaced the bores a bit more and put a vertical web between the bores to increase cooling surface area.
It looks like even 9mm (3mm x 3) more would give the gasket an even amount of sealing surface all the way around. Of course, that would mean they still would have cooling issues between the cylinders, but yeah, too many hot things crowded too close together. Sometimes just pumping more air and fuel through the engine is not the answer to making more power in a smaller engine. Unfortunately the real world tends to be more complicated than people think it is.
11.14.22. Looks like Ford®️is doing their best to keep up with GM™️in who can push out failures in design & engineering of power trains‼️ just wait until they start pumping out electric motors…….😮
@@stevensapyak7971 Is that why the small block Chevy hasn't really changed in over 100 years since it's design was adopted from cadillac in 1913? Yeah, GM designs sure do suck. Can't forget about how awful allison transmissions are, not like they've gotten us through countless wars or anything...
My 19 Ford Edge with 2L ecoboost just had this issue. 56K miles. Ford identified the problem and had a new long block installed in a week and a day. Not happy about it happening but Ford took care of it at no cost. So far it’s been a pleasant experience.
@@Dillonmac96 They did reengineer and produce a reliable design though. In 2020 they launched the fixed design, and so far haven't had problems with it.
We had a new 1.6l Long block put in my wife's car last year because of this. Luckily we had extended warranty. Makes me wonder though if the reman motor we got from Ford was the revised version.
@@rays7437 Did the 1.6 Ecoboosts get a new block revision? The only revision I'm aware of is the Cylinder head overheating on the first revision (pre-2014). This lead to cracked heads and oil fires.
@@MHBGT My understanding is that the long blocks are assembled to order as needed, and include all revisions possible at the time. The warranty on them is 36 months regardless of miles driven. If you had it installed at a Ford dealer then you will have gotten all applicable software updates and the revised HOAT coolant. I would still change the coolant at 3 year intervals, however. Also don't go 7500 on oil changes, do them at 5000. Don't use conventional oil
Other manufacturers did the same thing. GM added drillings (2) normal to the deck in between the cyc's into the open cavity below to try to get some cooling between the cylinders. Erroneously referred to as "steam ports" they helped -but nominally. The joining of the cylinders adds tremendous strength to the block but also makes the bores go out of round since the bores are not cooled uniformly as they expand due to heat. Aluminum blocks can only be more prone to distortion due to the material modulus. Some people have complained that Siamese cylinders contribute to oil consumption due to the out of roundness. Don't think I would go that far to agree with that. I was a powertrain design engineer (now retired) for a competitor to Ford. Have to say I don't know who validated the slit between the bores like that. Looks problematic and at least prone to plugging.
Plugging was my first thought after head sealing issues. Every automotive liquid cooling system will eventually have built-up deposits so a good design will take that into account. Full cylindrical cylinders and o-ringed head sealing is all that's necessary to fix this. Of course you can't retrofit that. Nor can you retrofit intelligence into humans who can't see the obvious.
@@BruceLee-xn3nn I built several 400 sbc. In addition to the larger displacement due to increased stroke, the short c rod allows for the rod to be at a right angle to the crank while the piston is still higher in the bore and still under greater combustion pressure-helps with torque but increases side loading of the piston in the bore. 511 and 817 are the 2 casting numbers to help identify a 400 sb. The balancer is specific to the 400 as well as the flywheel. The 400 and 454bb flywheels are both externally balanced and look alike but are not interchangeable. These motors can move small buildings in stock trim.
I've seen some videos of the EcoBoost v6 failing in Ford trucks such as F150 and the Expedition, and several Mustangs. Been a loyal Ford buyer for a long time with some Lincolns in the mix as well, all V8s though. No more, switching brands because there is no way any of the Engineers at Ford didn't know about this and the many other issues not mentioned here. Planned obsolescence is more obvious than ever before.
You could say the same for every brand. My dad had a Z71 and an Acadia, but after the lifter collapse on a 2015 Z7- that required a new engine just out of warranty and the Acadia that has had several problems he’ll never own another GM.
@@TheBandit7613 I don't know much about ford but avoid turbo engine for daily unless you got the patience to wait for the car to warm up before wot and wait for the turbo to spool down before turn the key off.
@@Align700nitro I have a diesel Ford F350, I do a lot of towing. I haven't had any trouble but diesels in general are a pain. All of them. Oil changes are a couple hundred bucks... expensive maintenance. Have to be careful climbing mountain passes, have to watch the exhaust temperature. That's all turbo diesels. Big rigs too. Ford created a masterpiece with the 7.3 gas heavy duty engine. They went BACK in time, no more DOHC. Just a conventional cam and lifters. Gobs of power. Trying to get too much power from too few cubic inches.
Good to know. I have a ‘17 2.0 I bought used, only have around 60k on it. No issues so far, I’ve had it 3 years. Glad I bought an extended drivetrain warranty.
I wonder if the engineers were told to use particular existing machinery which limited their cylinder centres. This was quite common in industry years ago and might still be when development and production costs are limited. It’s a bit like bearings sealed for life when they seize life is over!
I had asked a friend if they had changed their transmission fluid as their car was over 50K miles. I was told that they asked the dealer and the dealer said that it never needed changed as it was good for the life of the transmission. I told them that means that when it goes bad early from never having a service that was it's life and that the Dealership would be happy to sell them parts or another vehicle. It goes right up there with the 10K mile oil change intervals that are listed now for newer vehicles.
The 2.0 and 2.3 Ecoboost engines are based on the architecture of the existing Mazda MZR engines found in the ~2007 Mazdaspeed 3 and ~2007 Mazda CX-7. They don't have this problem (they don't have the slit between the cylinders, indeed the Mazda is nearly a closed deck block) or the cylinder head cracking problems (the Mazda engines has four exhaust ports instead of the combined port of the Ford engine) but they have timing chain problems. So Ford got it a bit wrong when redesigning the 2.0-2.3. This doesn't explain how Ford also got it a bit wrong when designing the 1.0 and 1.5 though!
Ford's better idea again. At least they updated the block to prevent the issue down the road, but not great for owners of the current design. Thanks for sharing Brian !
One Word FORD!! Been There and done that! Never again! We had 2 Focus ST cars, transmissions replaced and engine failures. Unbelievable experience! Then we had a 2013 brand expedition that just wouldn't start! The Ford engineers couldn't figure it out and finally gave us another one1 like I said one word FORD!!
2 Focus ST with transmission problems? A manual transmission... Being that not many people talk about transmission issues in that car, your problem was likely operator error lol.
79 mustang that had 200,000km, current 2013 escape with over 310,000km and still going strong. We have never had anything but great cars from Ford. We have owned a few other non-fords and they were all crap.
@@1976axerhand Nope, this design has existed since the introduction of the 1.6 ecoboost (~2012-2013?). In 2017, I assume Ford stopped stopped using the 1.6 in favour of the 1.5. So yeah, the problem "does not exist" before 2017, but thats just an easy way for Ford to say: Tough luck, your warranty has expired -AKA your problem, not ours.
@@erikcarlsen3238 my Fiesta ST needed an engine rebuild at about 90k miles (148k km). Not because engine failure, but due to a spark plug seizing in the head and piston rings being sludged up. Besides the misfire situation, the car still drove great with the gunked up piston rings.
@@MHBGT good that i did not buy the original ford spark plug did buy japan spark plugs the most expensive on the websites The only thing my cars problem is its fixed now it the dam washer fluid line that is leaking cheap plastic
I have two old volvo v70 d5. A 2003 and a 2004. They are just relentless. Apparently part of the reason is when they leave the factory they were under tuned so not ever really straining. As you say manufacturers are continually trying to get more power out of engines these days
Thanks Brian. Great video This just happened to my Daughters 17 Escape with 31,000 on it. It is being fully covered by Ford. New short block. There was no warning light, high temp indication. Car ran fine. She took it in for an oil change and the coolant reservoir was empty. It must of just happened.
Thank you for showing and explaining the true problems. Time for CEO needs to focus on quality again - REMEMBER “QUALITY IS JOB #1” instead of focusing on maximizing profits for stockholders. Cheaper to build right the first time instead of “RECALLS” that eat away millions out of profits of company and lost customers in the future.
The coolant level on my 2013 Fusion Titanium kept dropping every couple of weeks. I would check the oil and inside the engine bay, but could never find a trace of a leak. Well, one night I was driving on the freeway when I heard the loudest pop I had ever heard inside a car. It sounded exactly like a plastic bottle full of air exploding. Turns out that a coolant hose blew up. I was able to make it home and noticed the coolant reservoir was empty. After the hose was replaced, the coolant level remained the same. Although the pop scared the crap out of me that night, I'm glad the coolant wasn't leaking into the engine.
My sister's first Escape was a non Ecoboost, it lasted over 200,000 miles and was running when she sold it. Her second Escape is an Ecoboost 1.6 and she’s on her second engine after 150,000 miles. Not horrible, but there’s an example of the difference in longevity. Every manufacturer currently offers turbo gas engines and many do have their shortfalls, most common being premature wear. Hopefully this changes but only time will tell.
If properly maintained, only getting 150k out of a motor is almost criminal for a manufacturer. Engines if designed correctly should be able to get a minimum of 250k out of them before replacement/rebuild. I'm on 443k on my 2010 Crown Vic with the original engine. The example shown here in this video is just piss poor engineering. The original design of the block should've had those crossovers designed into it, even if it made the engine a little bit longer to keep cylinder wall thickness correct. I have a sneaking suspicion this "fix" on the newer blocks is going to have issues with clogging due to the tiny hole size (unless owners are religious about coolant changes).
@@wrenchrat Given the price of new cars, even boosted engines should last much longer than they actually do. Engines actually pollute more with wear so it really makes no sense to me. Late model cars burn oil like no tomorrow.
I have a 2006 focus with 130000 kms and the engine runs like a top, Im going to keep it running as long as possible. My 2000 Chevy S-10 had almost 400000 kms before I sent it to the scrap yard, the engine (4.3L vortec) and transmission ran perfectly, engine still had lots of pull (fun truck), but everything else was toast. It was rusted all over and the plastic parts were brittle and failing, I was sad to see it go, I wish I had another just like it.
@@wrenchrat for an economical car brand like Ford, who isn't even pushing tech to the limit, i agree. If it was a GT350 it'd be more understandable. But 150k miles is like BMW or Range Rover status 🤔
Did you know the first original lightbulbs lasted for decades? That’s why they built in 1000 hour limit so they fail and you have to buy a new one. Feel stupid yet sheep because they build to fail into EVERYTHING now.
Is there a block ID number to check which version it is? I don't have one, but I imagine this would be helpful for others getting a new/reman engine. If I was paying, I'd refuse the old design block if that was the one they attempt to install. And I would not trust a salvage engine of the same years.
Thanks for the detailed information. A friend of mine has the 1.5 and this happened but she got a quote for a brand new engine instead of a rebuild with a huge price tag.
This is similar to the infamous 0331 head failures on 2000/2001 Jeeps, only there it was an actual crack that developed in the head, rather than a blown gasket. Always happened right between cylinders 3 and 4, dead center of the engine. If you took the oil cap off, often you could look straight down and actually SEE the crack!
We are taking our 2017 Ford Edge Titanium into the mechanic on the 18th of Sept, 2023 for this exact same issue. Have a couple of questions, if possible: 1. What year has the most updated version of the engine fix? 2. Is there a serial # or any other form of identification # we can get from either the mechanic or our paperwork showing which updated engine we received? The mechanic is replacing the long block, turbo, water pump, tension pulley and several other parts & belts. Thank you in advance for any info that may help us.
Yep! Sure enough on my 2017 Edge with the 2.0 EcoBoost it was throwing a code for Cylinder 3 misfire and Coolant sensor. This happened at about 87,000 miles. Service Advisor calls me - ready to sell me a new engine. I tell him- good thing I bought that extended warranty (90,000 mi 😂). Bing Bong - new motor, FREE OF CHARGE.
I have a '23 Maverick with the Ecoboost 2.0. Glad to hear they fixed that ridiculous design. Any other issues with the newer 2.0 Ecoboost I should be aware of when I take delivery? I know NOT to overheat it and change oil every 3k miles. Thanks for your help.
They seem to be pretty solid now, other than the carbon buildup which is an issue with every direct injection motor. It doesn't harm much of anything though.
7:51 - this seems to be the problem. The gasket. I had mine replaced with a bit thicker version on Ecoboost 2.0, and the coolant leakage issue seemed to go away. It's being only 5 000 km, since the replacement, so I'll keep monitoring. So far all good.
I have to wonder if some of these failures are caused by that narrow slit getting clogged up with gunk and not cooling properly? I know some fail too early to really have corrosion in the cooling system as a cause, but that one had a lot of stuff in there that may have been causing hot spots, which the thinner walls can't tolerate. I also wonder how many are tuned or driven hard versus ones failing Grandma on her way to church. Even spirited driving shouldn't kill it if designed properly, but it would be interesting to know if current owners could change their maintenance and/or driving routines to prevent this problem.
It fails because this engine is boosted and the high combustion stroke pressure is enough to push the headgasket into that slit and loosen it so that it starts leaking coolant into the combustion chamber, thus burning coolant out and causing a low coolant "overtemp" condition
I think ur correct. Didn't look like coolant had been changed. That gunk stopped coolant flow so if owner had changed coolant possiblely cracks from heat didn't happened with normal driving. Brian had said some had run quite awhile before failure.
wrong again....some people drive like granny....but some keep the boost up to a good level.....granny would never blow a head gasket....because when she felt the power coming on...se would lift....grannies grandson on the other hand likes to be pinned in the seat....and that is what ford ADVERTISED....he aint lifting....even if it overboosts or redlines....just how old are you?@@tedr2789
I used to rebuild vacuum pumps, ultrahigh vacuum pumps and systems where even the smallest leak means failure to reach spec vacuum. These were sealed with Conflat knife-edge (CF) seals which has a knife edge around the perimeter that bites into a soft copper gasket. Seems to me two flat mating surfaces sealed with a flat gasket so the only thing holding it in place is the friction area compressing it. This engine obviously does not have enough surface area to maintain a grip on the gasket which then slides out of place. I know top fuel engines use a CF style head sealing system with a copper gasket and a SS wire instead of a knife edge. Why can't this be used for engines like this ford engine with head gasket blowout issues?
Racing blocks are commonly o-ringed with copper to achieve the seal under extreme boost pressure. The correct solution was found long ago and proven by Offenhauser: You can't blow a head gasket if there is no head gasket. Those engines commonly ran insane amounts of boost without failure.
@@markharris5707 they usually test well past 100k miles. They test bed the engines pretty hard. Trouble is on a test bed or even test vehicles, they never really get the hot cold cycle of a normal car.
Good video. Glad you mention which motors are the bad ones. I hate when a single vehicle has a single issue, and people demonize the entire company. I've always had ford's and always had great luck with them. I also always looked up common problems before purchasing.
Depends on the issue. If a company knows that say, a transmission will fail just after warranty (on average) and dies nothing about it I works most certainly demonize that company because that’s a huge repair. Particularly if it’s been a known problem for years. Cheers
Ford used the same parts for multiple vehicles but only recalled some of them. The 1.5L was recalled for this problem but the 2.0L isn't being recalled even though it's the same issue.
@@tomdavis3038 but if they know that the car is leaking cooant and kills the engine for the 1.5L then why are they not recalling all the cars with the same issue when they know it's the same part.
What I find really interesting is that the head gasket problem is only on the open deck Ecoboost engines. On the closed deck Ecoboost like the 2.0l in the focus ST those engines can really take a beating before giving up.
Did you know the first original lightbulbs lasted for decades? That’s why they built in 1000 hour limit so they fail and you have to buy a new one. Feel stupid yet sheep because they build to fail into EVERYTHING now.
I've done some stupid stuff to the motor and tranny and both are running just fine. 6-2ed it instead of 6-4 rev-matching. Went from 3k to 5.5k rev match to over 9k at 70 mph at 35k 4 years ago. The aero louvers in front of the radiator failed to open after a bird jammed them closed in the hottest part of the summer in Oregon at 105 F and the coolant got up to 280 F with the oil also up to 280 F. Ford did wonderful with the 2.0L Eco on the STs and have heard nothing but great things about them, but horror storries about everything else except the closed deck 2.3L Ecos. Car just passed 100k and still running strong.
@@perrytilton5221 famous last words. I was bragging about my 2000 4runner passing 350,000 and that same day the front wheel decided to go somewhere without me.
I absolutely dodged a bullet by going with the S trim 2.5l engine in my 2014 Escape. The 1.6l and 2.0l of the early escapes don't seem to have this problem, but certainly hade plenty of others. 143k and zero problems with the 2.5l drive train.
You can't beat a naturally aspirated engine for reliability which is why i stay away from turbo engines. Turbo engines will fail much sooner than a naturally aspirated engine would.
Thank you for your channel and posting the videos that you do. Your videos are great and the comments from viewers are just awesome, which indicates the skill level of the viewers you have attracted. Keep up the good work.
The open deck design has more to do with reducing production costs than cooling efficiency, open deck blocks can be die cast which is much cheaper than sand casting. If you look at all the legendary Japanese turbo motors of the 90s (2JZ, SR20, RB26) they're all closed deck for strength, which is part of why they can produce the power they do. The ecoboost is pretty beefy for an open deck design though, they clearly designed it to take some hefty boost.
open deck is made so that the very top of the bores where the top ring is a few degrees either side of tdc when its at its greatest heat and pressure has the shortest heat path to get to the coolant, if you make it all solid round the top say 12mm of bores then the pistons and rings and ring lands all run hotter. you want your coolant as close as possible to the top 5-10mm of bores.
@@mainman2999 But if you treat the piston head with Ceramic then you greatly reduce heat transfer down into the piston and other internals. This is truly the way to go.
you forget to mention the real reason was because the 2jz and Rb26 were cast iron blocks only the heads were aluminum plus the 2jz had extra oil ports on the side of the block to help the oil flow through better. ford uses all aluminum blocks.
Drilling that hole isn't going to do much. The coolant volume moving through there will be minimal, and the drilled passage still weakens the cylinder walls. Bandaid on a gunshot wound.
Is this the same design flaw occurring with the Mustang eocboost 4 cyl engine to? P303, lost fluid and had to have a new head gasket put on at 50k miles.
Those eco boost motors were an option for the Ford Falcon . Choice of the Barra 4ltr 6cyl, or the 2ltr turbo 4 cylinder, in a 1.6ton car. Needless to say, the Evo boosts gave up thel ghost at around 200-250,000km, while the 4ltts can survive upwards of 500-600,000km...or more
Daves , l had my ford falcon xe for 12 years , l had the T piece brake off( coolant) it was picked up & taken to ford dealer & fixed free of charge , under warranty but on year 10 my auto trans packed up & that cost me $500 change over. l'm sorry l got rid of it , it's a collecter car worth big bucks now that ford closed down in Australia 😢
I hadn't heard much about these eco boost falcons reliability ,because not many were sold in 4 cylinder guise. Have they been giving out early, is that what you've heard or experienced? 🤔
Brian: I drove Ford trucks for 40 years. I bout a 96 "power joke" & it was an absolute piece of junk I bought a 97 Ram 2500 with the Cummins 6BT 12 valve & "P" pump. Best truck I have ever owned. I have watched your videos since day one , & wish the world had more mechanics like you. I do most of my own work (I am NOT a mechanic but I have had many people over the years have me diagnose problems that shops couldn't) At 84 years of age I pay to have certain work done , since it is more than I want to deal with. I am considering a new pickup, but having watched your innumerable videos of Ford trucks that seemingly ALL have incredible faults & with HUGE repair bills, I am moved to ask if there is any Ford F150 4X4 that is reliable ? If the 300ci in line 6 was available, I would buy a new F150 tomorrow ! Seriously Brian, you are a straight shooter, & I would be interested in hearing what you have to say about a new Ford that is reliable. I have well over 1,000,000 miles on my Dodge diesel, with no serious problems over the years, but so few parts have been replaced that I don't want to make long trips in it, since the likelihood of a breakdown enroute becomes greater every mile. I would appreciate any suggestions you may care to offer. Keep up the good work Sir ! Cheers!, Brian
A new transmission every 50,000 miles is a serious issue though. I know, it's considered normal maintenance for a Chrysler product, but that's not how it's supposed to be.
97 Dodge Trucks are absolute garbage! The only thing good about them is the Cummins. 97 to 03 Ford's are some of the best year Ford trucks made. 7.3 diesel and the 4.6 and 5.4 Triton 2 valves are great motors. Only reason guys buy a Dodge is because of the Cummins.
main reason I prefer a naturally aspirated engine; whatever you save on fuel economy, you'll give back on the back end with costly repairs. save myself a hassle of going through that bs.
Very nice vid. My wife’s 2017 Fusion Titanium with the 2.0 turbo had this failure about a year ago with only 38000 miles on the car. Thankfully the power train warranty is still in effect and we also bought an extended warranty (car is used) and the issue was taken care of. New long block. Don’t know if the new motor is the new design so the car will go before the warranty expires.
My 17 Fusion had this issue with about 36K on it in Sept 2019. I was told by the service manager the replacement long-block has the newly updated deck surface with the cross-drilled steam holes, so I would think everyone after around the time I had mine replaced should all be getting the updated motor. I noticed the oil fill cap and neck is a little smaller than the original so it looks a little funny under the top engine cover... and I've also noticed all the newer Fusions, Edges, and Escapes are the same so I assume that's maybe an easily visible sign of the updated engine design.
Great video explanation of the issue. Unfortunately, I am going through this issue now with my 2016 Edge. Not happy about it but nothing at this point that can be done to fix it. Car goes in next week but has all the symptoms. Just assume this is the problem.
Great video content and important information for Ford customers! This happened in cylinder #2 in my 2019 Escape SE with the 4 cylinder 1.5 L engine that only had 32,000 miles in May of 2022. Ford had to replace the entire short block under warranty. Thank the Lord that I did not put over 50,000 miles on it before this happened (I might have had to pay for it out of pocket under those circumstances).
i just had this happen to me i bought 2017 escape 1.5ltr ecoboost never had one thing go wrong since i bought it brande new under ford motor credit until last month it just blew the head gasket i have 62k mi on it whiuch is 2k over the powertrain. I called ford and had my case reviewed from the dealer and ford said pound sand they werent even gonna do a partnership split on cost for me they literally screwed us for no reason. i will never buy another ford again at all. i have 3 more payments on it till its paid off lol.
Surely that hole will crud up over time, they would have been better to lengthen the block by 10mm to give the area required for the gasket, I remember back in the 70's companies were accused of designing in redundancy, thank you for the info. great vlog John
it will, but ford is hoping by then the engine failure from the clogged holes will have at least 250k on them. So everyone will just chalk it up as engine old age.
@@kd84afc The problem is the rubber oil pump drive belt that fails and then the engine grenades or locks up. We (normally) have a long block in stock or at the local warehouse for them.
Even with the new design, technicians must use the OE coolant with distilled water. Tap water contains minerals and will clog those tiny cooling passages in between the cylinder walls.
@@TonicofSonic I can’t speak for anyone regarding flushing an engine block with tap water. In SW part of the US, we utilize ground water and it’s loaded with minerals. We use soft water to flush the engine blocks.
My experience with 2015 Mustang Ecoboost: engine failed at 29000 miles in January 2021. It was not covered by extended warranty. Is the 2.3 also included in this design defect?
My 2016 Focus ST had this failure at about 180k, though I believe it's closed deck (which is partly why I bought it!), though it isn't listed in the TSB or the CA suit. Started it up and blew coolant like a SpyHunter smoke screen. Cleared up a little when it warmed up, but still smoked as if a normal cold start. Car ran completely fine with no sign of head gasket failure and didn't consume much coolant considering, so I thought it was a blown turbo coolant seal. Replaced turbo, still blowing. TSB states to replace block. With the market crazy and people driving junkers longer than they would, I couldn't find anyone to swap the engine around me in a remotely useful timeframe (only car) and I'm no longer bothering to do that heavy work myself, so I sold it (within hours in spite of complete honesty!). The TSB doesn't say what the failure is and the CA suit was written by lawyers who would probably mistakenly put their eyes out if they tried to use a screwdriver, so this was awesome to see, thanks! PS, though it looks like a better solution, I still wouldn't trust that fix. Though I'm wary and not driving one now (GR86), I would still consider another Ford, since the ST was a great driving car and needed nothing but the EGR valve in that 180k miles, which was a recall part, but was so cheap and easy to replace that I just did it myself and my '12 Focus SE (manual transmission) needed nothing at all and ran perfect for over 200k when it was totaled.
Dude my car white smokes like hell when cold and lesser so when really warm, so suggesting coolant mix. I've had the head gasket replaced at ££££ money and it still happens. My car though, on 70k miles on the clock, you were more luck with 180k miles....Me? I bought the car at 64k miles! Been constantly topping it up with coolant, even after new head gasket!
@@CrazyInWeston Sounds like the same problem. Most of the engines that I've read about failing didn't get as far as mine, but I was driving 40-50k miles/year. I think it's a time rather than mileage issue. (Like most things. People judge cars on mileage, but I usually get the same time out of my components-except tires because I drive like a dick-as others get, but I get three times the miles. Even things that would seem more mile-dependent, like suspension, which I don't understand, but it's what I get.) With mine, I had no hydrocarbons in the coolant or coolant in the oil and the engine ran perfect temperature, the exhaust just stank of burnt coolant and it smoked. Both my Fords used a little coolant from new, though, which I was first worried about since this isn't 1985 and these are sealed systems, but as it was such a small amount (barely 1/2 gallon in 200k miles) and a lot of people reported the same thing, I figured it was an odd quirk, but now I suspect the non-turbo engine has the same issue, but it doesn't usually surface maybe since there's less stress in the system (or the cursed DCT sends the car to the junker first, though mine was a special-ordered manual!). Sorry to be the bad-news source, good luck!
I have a 2011 Mondeo with the 1.6 ecoboost with 160hp. Driven 220.000 km with it. Sofar no big issues, the coolant hoses to the intercooler were replaced twice because the started leaking. Part of the cooling system was replaced with a recall a few years back. It drives really nice and comfortable, here in Holland at 100 or 130 and in Germany at higher speeds. No problems, no need to top up oil or coolant between annual services (15 to 20k).
Great visualization. With ther new design I still dont have much confidence. To me the holes although will let coolant pass how long and what happens when they get clogged by something? Why couldnt the designers add an inch and half to two inches to the overall lenght of the engine and make it much more robust? I was thiking of a next gen Ranger, but maybe my 2014 F150 with 5.0 is a keeper.. Keep up the great videos.
Because bean counters. Saving pennies during production makes profits. If you add length to the engine, think of all the components that have to be lengthened. More cost. Also, these engines are a one size fits many car models. There might not be enough room in the too small engine compartment because the engine compartment isn't driver usable space. Imagine if the mechanic was consulted during design. You wouldn't have to pull the entire dash to replace an AC condenser.
i recall many years ago i think the" iron duke" ! engine the head bolts broke but if lucky they broke in a jagged way that if u put bolt back in and pressed down as turning u could sometimes walk the broken threaded end out of block -memories !
If the engine has coolant intrusion, and the vehicle has high miles, can using a head gasket sealer stop the intrusion for a little longer? Allowing you to get a little more use out of the vehicle?
It is hard to believe that Ford let's these go without confirming these issues and dealing on the back end, but they do. I have seen 2 of these where I work just in the last week. Not certain it was this exact issue, but I would bet that's the case. Both had head gasket leaks, confirmed by block test and chocolate milk crankcase. Thanks for shedding some light on this.👍👍
I have 2014 1.6 ecoboost 200hp with 336 000km (~210 000 miles) and everything is running perfect stock, I had to replace just valve cover gasket amd maintenance items. It's strong engine (some people push it up to 300hp with stock internals) but very easy to overheat and easy to damage due to too long oil intervals/wrong oil. The cracking occurs due to no/too low coolant. In 2.0 and 2.3 it's different situation and they like to bend rods or piston cracking.
Another great video, thank you, ur a masterful instructor. I owned 2 bay shop out of high school, I had built some Chevy drag racers and sold them, People in neighborhood got to kno i rebuilt a junkyard car while in high school, my first 1955 265ci chevy I rebuilt from scratch, got it from ja unk yard, I used the Clinton Manuels to teach myself. Business took off I had same attitude u do. Do it right the first time or don't do it at all. I didn't advertise didn't have a sign even. Word of mouth, the thieves were same as today. Had to close & goto Vietnam, drafted. Then to college, in retrospect shud have reopened, white collar work sucked. Ted Rabens
The engine had been around roughly 145 years when they designed this engine and it got to the production stage. They never saw the potential issue?!? Wow 🤯
@@jayhemfindsyoualways love how people claim older cars were so much better when in reality they weren’t. There are shit cars today and there were shit cars back then
except nowadays you need to sell 2 kidneys and your child to buy a new car and 90% of the mass consumer engines are shit, yea no thanks, i'll stick to my old engine@@Mow_Lester
I had this happen on my 2018 Fusion SE 1.5L. Fortunately, my dealership replaced the block under warranty. When my lease was up, I was uneasy about keeping the car long term, so I turned it back in. Never know if their "fix" is a long term one or just another stop gap. Thanks for the detailed information!
@@WanderingAroundAZ The short block is the engine minus the heads. i.e. it is the whole bottom 2/3 of the engine, all the pistons, all the rods, and the crankshaft. If any component can be considered the engine itself the short block is it.
@@danielpassigmailcom vs a long block which includes the heads, etc. AKA the ENTIRE engine. Geezus sorry I didn't say "short block" in my original comment. I know what was done to my Fusion. Move on.
So what happens when that tiny drilled coolant passege becomes clogged on an old engin. Do we get pre ignition knock and eventual engine destruction from the hot spot.
Fantastic video and detailed description of the engineering defect and fix. I had to have the 2.0T engine replaced on my 2017 MKZ 2.0T, fortunately under warranty at 45k mikes. Quick question- do they replace just the long block and reuse the existing head or do they replace the block and the head when they do this under warranty?
I've got a 17' Escape with the turbo 4 and so far, so good. What are the percentages of these engines with issues? Hoping and praying mine will last. Don't need ANY engine block issues!
My ecobust is 13 years old, at 21, antifreeze flowed into 3 and 4 cylinders, drove for a whole year until the caustic steam from the exhaust pipe fell down)))! Repairs were made in February 22, the mileage was 145 thousand km. I have already driven 15 thousand km after repair - everything is fine! The main thing is high-quality gasoline and do not overheat the engine!
Exactly , engines can be made to be indestructible. Look at many famous diesel engines. Have you seen thier internals . They look like they belong on drag cars. Rods the size of my forearm. 2in wrist pins. It can be done.
I have a 1st gen 2.0L EcoBoost my my 2013 Ford Taurus and it's still going strong at 163k miles. It's a pretty solid motor actually I really like the way it runs and delivers power, especially the torque. Ford should've just kept the same design after 2015. Things would've been fine for them.
I had a 2014 Fusion with the 2.0L and 130K miles. It ran well but the 1st gen was known to have turbo issues and mine was starting to fail, the block was good though. It seems with the new generation they addressed the turbo problem but messed up the block.
Great video, very informative. In December 2020 we bought a new 2020 Escape. First year of the redesign. It has a 1.5-liter engine with 3 cylinders. It sounds like a tractor when it idles but performs well and we get very good mpg. Wondering what you think of this engine? Thanks, Bill Columbia, SC
Praying to God my mother's 2014 Escape 1.6 EcoBoost never suffers from this (although it probably will cause she has endless and neverending issues with it). Doesn't surprise me with it being a Ford. Thanks for putting this information out, Brian... you are very brave to do it (unlike Ford).
@@wayneessar7489 my Tucson runs the same engine displacement and the only potential issues it has is oil consumption. It's far more reliable and engineered to withstand the boost and many others, the 1.6 EcoBoost is not made to withstand the boost pressures and whatnot.
Someone please answer this question I have - the 2.0 in our '18 MKC failed at 37K miles due to coolant intrusion, the dealer replaced the engine in MAY 2023 (assembled in March 2023), and this July, the REPLACEMENT ENGINE ALSO failed from coolant intrusion after ONLY 4,000 miles. The second replacement engine in it right now was manufactured this April and has the SAME exact block part number (J2GE 6006 AC) as the failed first replacement engine at 4,000 miles. The block part number on the original engine (assembled in December 2017) has the block part number HV 206 AA. Has Ford not solved the coolant intrusion problem despite "supposedly" redesigning the block starting around the 2020-ish model year?
The powertrain chief design engineer should be called on the carpet for this one. All the design rules of thumb would have said no to such a design. The thermal computer models that involve heat and pressure should have caught this engineering error. Ford has a long history in engine design and testing and has a duty to at least split the repair costs for any units not under factory warranty. But it will never happen unless court action forces them to do it.
It really is crazy how so many car companies have made stupid mistakes with engines in the past decade or so. Some had sand left in the blocks from casting, some had machining problems, some had design flaws like these. After 100+ years you'd think they'd get it right. My Dad told me about a Fiat they had in the 60s that needed head work every year or two because of a hot spot between two cylinders, and here we are today with the same problem lol.
My son’s 2017 2.3 Mustang EcoBoost Premium went EcoBoom due to this design. Ford said tough luck. I fixed it myself with a new head, head gasket, ARP custom age 625+ studs and FRPP cams. Disappointed in Ford not supporting recalls on this known defect.
Same! and the dealer tried to blame my daughter for ruining her engine which only had 60k miles. They tried to "help" her by offering financing for 12k new engine. This was for a 2018 Ford Mustang 2.3 Mustang EcoBoost.
I bought a 17 ford edges ecoboost with 34,000 miles ….with 38,000 miles I started getting a misfire on hot start for a few seconds. Check engine light eventually and took it in under warranty…code for #3 misfire. Coolant getting in the cylinder for your described issue.. I ended up getting a 2021 brand new engine off the production line …was glad they updated the whole thing instead of just putting a short block in it.
Turbo charging is great, if your car is brand new. But the boost pressure the turbo puts on the engine will lead to problems. You'd think they'd have figured this all out by now.
We have had 3 major engine repairs (all for this issue) with our 2018 Escape BEFORE 30K miles. I think it has the 1.5L engine. I cannot imagine how much this has cost Ford, but I do know it has cost them a customer. Thank you for explaining it much better than our service advisors.
I have a 2003 3.0 V6 Duratec Escape. Apart from a few oil leaks and a bad PCV valve, it's been pretty good and has 250,000 kms on the clock. Sad to see manufacturers going backwards.
@@PhilUKNet the late 90s early 00s were the golden age for durable engines.
Hey man. If three issues occurred with same part you can petition to have a lemon law take place. Making them buy it back for full price. Then you can switch.
@@jbnnm657 I tried that but our lemon law didn’t seem to apply with the timing. Ford did extend the warranty though.
@@markmazurik8329 how long did they extend it?
Two things amaze me here:
1. The engineers actually thought that block with the slit was a good idea.
2. That poor design actually worked at all for any period of time.
Yeah, it doesn't take an engineer to see that as a textbook point of failure.
The original proposal was probably correct but management asked for a more cost effective option.
I'm sure that the engineers didn't think it was a good idea but the bean counters made them do it anyway
I watch the engine tear downs on the I Do Cars channel and he’s pulled apart a Nissan 3.5 and a Chrysler 3.6 Pentastar that had this slit between the cylinder design. The Nissan had a lot of metal between each cylinder so maybe not an issue for them. The Pentastar had maybe a bit more between the cylinders than the EcoBoosts, but idk if those have any similar issues.
You say that, but Volvo have been doing it for decades before Ford tried it. And they only ever give issue when you increase power dramatically.
I used to work as a mechanic for two big american automotive companies...one begins with a C and the other begins with F. I have over 30 years experience as a ASE certified mechanic, I asked a question to one of the very big corporate bosses when he came to visit. I asked him off to the side why the cars the company produced were becoming so unreliable...I swear he said this, why do we want to build a car that lasts 20 or 30 years? We now follow the same marketing as cell phone companies. We only build cars to last maybe 5 to 10 years at most so we keep people coming back and spending more money. For the customers who dont get the warranties they pay the price. I was so shocked i quit working as a mechanic, the corruption is off the charts!
thanks for saying this in english despite not being very surprising.
@@PLAYERSLAYER_22 no problem, just some more food for thought. If a car has any of the following features dont buy it, Auto start stop/ Displacement on demand-cylinder deactivation/Direct injection...all these devices are EPA nonsense and do more damage to the vehicle then help the environment.
And that's why I've been driving Toyotas for the last 20 years
At one point in time I was the record holder at the Ford Dealership I once worked for as a tech, I ended up having 12 Escapes back lined waiting for parts and block too. The process was insane especially when I had to use dollies to achieve this operation at times. These warranty repair orders were a nightmare at first until the process was refined.
What about 2016-2019 Ford Edge with Ecoboost engine?
@@TheMichaelJu same issue with edge, fusion, mkz, etc
LOL!! I used to work at a welding supply chain store as a service tech and I had the same thing with the Miller XMT Inverter welders. I worked there for something like 2 years and I never once had a day that I didn't have at least one of the POS machines set in cue for a major overhaul and almost all were 100% under warranty.
If you ever want to buy a good product talk to the service techs, not the salespeople. A service tech will tell you what machines they see the most and what ones they never see. A salesperson will try to get you to buy whatever they make the most commissions on even if it is absolute garbage.
@@tcmtech7515 I have two of those in my shop that the boss refuses to admit there's anything wrong with because it will turn on and weld good for the first hour or so but it eventually fucks up and he says we are making it up lol. Sent them in to get repaired and they came back saying there's nothing wrong and we had to pay for their diagnostic time.
@@tcmtech7515 I just walked over to check them out and they are "450 XMT CC/CV" lol trash machines for sure. For what we bought them for used and service fees, we could have had new everlast machines. These machines are the reason I went with an everlast and it seems to be holding up well.
I'm a tech at a Toyota dealer. A while ago we sold a used 17 Lincoln MKC with the 2.0 and it came back to us over the summer with this exact issue at around 125k. Hearing that they updated the engine makes me very glad that we sourced a fresh long block from the Ford dealer next door rather than getting a used motor. Ironically the long block was cheaper than a used motor, even with adding on a turbo due to coolant in the oil.
@@matthewdoyle3513 We see the occasional 3rd Gen for EGR issues, not too many for head gaskets. I don't think its that Toyota chose a design that fails around 150k, but rather that some start failing around that point. It's likely due to owner habits and driving conditions because we've seen 3rd gens with over 200k that haven't had any major engine repairs of that nature done.
The MKC is junk to begin with. I can’t imagine buying one of those polished turds only to have to deal with catostrophic engine failure, too.
@@JimmyDoresHairDye Meanwhile Lexus owners are selling their 2005's for 10,000 with 300,000 miles on them with never an issue.
@J D I know many with MKC with zero issues, myself included. Very nice vehicle, especially for the $ in comparison to other. Every mfg, and vehicle model made can experience issues
Do you work at Saratoga Toyota? I think that was my car.
This validated my decision not to buy an Ecoboost Fusion for my wife. At the time I didn't know about the head gaskets blowing out. I just assumed there would be unforeseen problems. She's been very happy with the naturally aspirated 2.5L.
Buy a Mazda or Toyota.
The 2.5L is a great motor which Ford should not have discontinued!
I was happy with a "used" '13 Focus SE N/A that I owned for 5yrs and put 50kmiles on. Except for a failed TCM (replaced FREE) at 73kmiles, the car was FUN to drive AND trouble free! I sold it because it lacked "usability". Being a "sedan", it was hard to fit large items THROUGH the trunk opening. I SHOULD have bought the HATCHBACK version!!!
@@kyzor-sosay6087 No. Toyota stopped making really reliable stuff since 2010. Their value comes from fan boys that think Toyota is as reliable as they were in the 90's, but they aren't. Mazda isn't much for reliability either now. Buy from whatever brand you want, but do some actual research. They all make good cars, they all make terrible design choices like Ford did here.
@@BlueOvals24 My 1996 Tacoma has 479K,still runs great.
Mazda 3,has 280K running outstanding,daily driver.
Nice to see the youngster learning from KING FORD!!! Take it all in kid, your dad is the best! Wishing you the best.
love when the bean counters get involved in designing things. it almost always ends poorly
Bean counters control the world. Which is why we are all so screwed.
Not sure it's a bean counter issue. I mean, sure, not wanting to redesign the block and cost thereto, there's that, but more a 'we need more cooling, how do we do this?' issue, and they came up with a wrong solution thinking it'd be ok, then finding out later that they dun messed up.
Not letting them off the hook for this, of course, someone in the engineering team should have said "yknow... that seems fraught" and made them figure out something else. These are the challenges of trying to get 10 lbs of hrspwrs outta a 5 lb block though. Heat's a female dog.
Not bean counting, it’s engineering. It almost looks obvious that the point of failure would’ve been in the thin spot.
@@mikeybhoutex Its not. The cycle time and tooling costs are going to be negligible for the hole vs the slot. Its just a poor design. These companies just never seem to learn from their past mistakes and mistakes made by other companies. Its common sense when you have higher cylinder pressures you need a generous amount of sealing surface for the head gasket to seal long term.
@@mikeybhoutex Pretty much a no-brainer that cutting a slit in the block to pass water would be an issue. Wouldn't have to be an engineer to see that problem. But just one more time where a lawsuit has to be filed to get a company to own up to it!
I own a 09 Ford Ranger Sport, regular cab, short bed, with the 2.3 ltr. Mazda engine with an automatic. It was was built in the Twin Cities assembly plant just before they shut down. Kudos to the folks that built it. It's still as tight as the day I drove it home from the dealership and now has over a 190,000 miles on it. It's been used and abused and still running strong..Something we may never see again from Ford...
My 02 with the same engine but stick and built in the New Jersey plant before they shut it down. Only found one minor flaw in their build. 255,000 miles still runs and drives great! Makes me never want to buy a new truck even if they had not priced themselves out of the market.
One of fords best vehicles ever
It's mostly a Ford engine >> The Duratec 23, also known as the Mazda L engine, is a 2.3-liter naturally aspirated four-cylinder from Ford Motor used to power compact and midsize cars, pickup trucks and utility vehicles, or more commonly known as CUVs. Featuring a dual overhead cam (DOHC) design, in an inline configuration, the Ford Duratec 23 engine has been part of the Ford Duratec engine family since 2001........
This engine was developed in partnership with Mazda (part of the MZR family), but under Ford ownership, which explains why it was used in a variety of different vehicle applications from one brand to the next. Such variations also meant that a slew of different technologies were grafted onto the engine as it evolved, things like a direct injection spark ignition (DISI), turbocharging, and Ford’s now ubiquitous Twin Independent Variable Camshaft Timing (Ti-VCT). The Ford 2.3L Duratec 23 engine is derived from the Ford Duratec 20 ,
Got a 98 Mazda B2500, runs like the day it was new at just under 200k.
But, it was PROBABLY a N/A engine. Makes a HUGE difference. This video was all about the 1.5, 1.6, 2.0, 2.3 ECOBOOST (turbo) engines!!
Same thing with the Volvo RN engines. When the bore was increased to 2.5L the area between the cylinders became marginally thin. Mine actually cracked during an overboost.
was looking for this comparison.. As soon as i saw this block, i thought oh when ford bought Volvo and took on the white block they thought this is great we can do this. They tried and this looks to be the result. The Volvo 2.3 and 2.4 RN engines were perfect!
Same thing with the Subaru boxer engines the 2.0 has thicker cylinder walls than the 2.5 also why the stock head gaskets always blow at around 80 to 100k on the 2.5 turbos they cant handle the pressure. Shocking to see this is still happening all these years later with ford do they not test there engines then? I am guessing there testing procedure is nothing like Toyotas.
@@xsduprwd3937 One of the things that can be done is to 'shim' the space between the cylinders with ~.031" stock. Makes it more resistant.
@@xsduprwd3937 I once cracked a '98 2.3 T5, no mods just driving hard, coolant leak at the back of the engine, aluminum just cracked, wrecked engine.
Be interesting to see if this fix holds up, could be prone to cracking and clogging the coolant passage hole.
I agree.... I just see the "fix" as a pre-established crack just waiting to happen (cross drilled hole) and secondly, just wait till it gets blocked by corrosion, etc...... then watch the engine come apart again. band aid fix on a major design problem!
@@jeffalvich9434 And it doesn't help things with the integrated exhaust manifold and the high heat in the middle of the head. No doubt, it can warp.
How many design and management checks and balances had to fail to let that out the door with a lifetime statistic mostly greater than warranty but short enough for negative consumer perception?
its only extra slots, normal,,cars dont have them..plus, if they made the blocks 1/4 longer,,it would matter as ther,d be enough surface area..this is how weight, fuel, epa,greenies fk us up..
@@harrywalker5836 No, it's how bad engineering and poor pre-production testing F it up.
You got me through the dark days of my 5.4 Triton. I became a DIY expert thanks to your tutelage. Some of these engineering decisions are mind boggling. I would venture to bet that top 10 techs on UA-cam could design better products based on how many failure points they encounter.
YES! Ford TechMakuloco REALLY knows his stuff when it comes to Ford products!!
That's not hard to do. Just look at the failing points, and redesign it exactly opposite how they designed it. So that slit in the block, just hit "ctrl, z" in blender, and boom, you got the reliable version of the 2.0 that existed in 2013/14.
Chrysler figured out that cross drill idea back in 1988. The engineers supposedly determined that it kept the head gasket about 70 degrees cooler between the cylinders.
Nice, great info!
Yep, and I had an ‘87 … Loved that car, but the head gasket went at 108k, and the head cracked. PISSER !!
You mean the same company that had an almost 80% head gasket failure by 70,000 miles blowing oil… like a Subaru ej251/253.
K-Car engineering!
@@RogerWilco486 No, neon and cloud car 2.0 and early 2.4 make by mopar, not to be confused with the Mitsubishi ones that have their own set of issues
I guarantee that the engineers at Ford didn't want to do that and some guy wearing a suit and holding a checkbook came and overrode him and here we are...
I dont know what happened here, my guess having experience in engine development is that the slit was never there until they had cooling issues during testing in later stages of development. The solution here was probably "we got to redesign the block" potentially causing a 12-18 month delay, which would cascade to the vehicle platform being delayed. With that, the engineering managers were pushed to find a workaround solution to keep the program on schedule. This is more common that you realize, in this case it was a huge failure in design. When I was at Ford on development projects, meeting timing is very high priority.
Bean-counters gonna count beans, sadly.
We’re just the lab rats to them
Wouldn't give Ford engineers too much credit. Overall quality for Ford has dropped to almost GM levels over recent years.
Theyre mazda engines.
Ford just gets the blame for them
I've never watched any of your videos before. But I found your channel because I just bought a 2017 ford edge and have this issue and came upon your video. You explained it so well that I have subscribed to your channel. Thank you sir! I will enjoy watching more of your videos. :)
This guy is a Ford expert and I didn't know till recently he's in Chicago and not too far from me. Good to know, I have a 2017 escape, 1.5. 😐
They know exactly what they're doing. Almost every Ford model has a class action lawsuit. They still profit. As you said, once repaired it will still fail unless someone re-engineered it for a new engine/ software/ ecu/ legislative processes and we know no one will do that. So Ford, even if they don't do the repairs themselves will make money off of parts or some sales.
And recently they just say sorry that part is on permanent backorder. Meaning we've loop-holed our requirements to support a vehicle for a certain number of years.
And they know all too well in this day and age you can produce garbage, treat your customers like crap and they'll line up in a couple years time to get a worse deal. Look at Apple.
I don’t think that’s correct. If they can’t fix your car, you can make them buy it back. Lemon laws are different in every state but they cannot screw you. Laws are in place so that it doesn’t happen. The only people who get screwed are the ones who don’t know how to deal with it
Apple keep pushing in design flaws discovered from previous generation models every few models or so..
A corporation can write-off losses and legal expenses. They have very little incentive to "get things right" above an outright consumer boycott (which will never happen). There are just as many pissed off GM consumers going to Chrysler....pissed off Chrysler people going to Ford, etc. all the time.
Likely they collect all the dissatisfied VAG customers who have experienced years of crap with VW FSI, TFSI and TDI also on Skodas, Audis and Seats. Theres common saying: Every day lots of dummies awake in the morning just to be taken in by VW dealers
Not just Ford but all of them. Nearly every vehicle or engine made today has a significant failure point in the design which is not correctable except by a new design which will come from the same people who designed the first failure. And the usual is that if the failed part is such that aftermarket manufacturers can't fairly easily improve and manufacture the failed part better while making a profit means that when the piss-poor OE parts run out all examples of that vehicle or engine become scrap metal no matter how good and useable everything else is.
Thank you for pointing out problems like this. John Q Public has no clue these types of failures are out there waiting for them. Any bets that the cross drill modifications fail due to the tiny holes becoming clogged with debris? One would think in the design stage they would make these blocks 1inch longer and give the cyl proper cooling especially since they turbo the heck out of them. Who in their right mind would think this (the slot fix) was ok? I'll give the drill hole fix 30,000 miles before they start overheating and blowing out the new head gaskets.
Mine failed over the last year in my 16 Edge 2.0. Said it had a #4 misfire and I replaced the coil pack on it. Next time I started the car it randomly smoked half the neighborhood out and I smelled Coolant burning. Luckily it was a Certified Ford car so new long block went in it last week and will be getting it back this Wednesday hopefully. Only have to pay for the 100 dollar deductible so I'm actually pretty happy lol. Only 70k miles on the old motor though
Was thinking the same thing. Why not just make the block an inch longer. Why do they always change something that works.
Because that would cost a fortune not only in retooling a foundry, but perhaps in packaging multiple platforms and even more model lines while, here, they can hope the cars blow up after warranty or get junked for bad transmissions or something else before it goes. I also have little faith the holes will be a true fix.
@@mitchkelleher7972 No, why not make it an inch longer from day 1? I guess they decided they had to siamese the cylinder bores for strength and stability, but what kind of graduate engineer then decided it was a good risk to put a slit in the head gasket right where the cylinders join? There's only 2~3mm of gasket either side of the coolant passage.
@@silverbullit89 1/2 inch
Is there a engine block code to confirm which new blocks have the better design? Especially for 2020 models.
The Ford TSB covering this issue provides build dates for the Escape. But on the Lincolns it mentions an engine base number. Ie look for 910. My Escape is just before the cutoff date, but my Cleveland engine number is 920. Trying to figure out if on May 2, 2019 I got the revised design. Still have 7 months of power train warranty. Probably going to dump it.
Glad to be a Ford tech. I know I'll always have a job.
Yeah, UNTIL Ford goes BANKRUPT! Which may be SOONER than you think. LOL
If the block was two or three inches longer they could have spaced the bores a bit more and put a vertical web between the bores to increase cooling surface area.
It looks like even 9mm (3mm x 3) more would give the gasket an even amount of sealing surface all the way around. Of course, that would mean they still would have cooling issues between the cylinders, but yeah, too many hot things crowded too close together. Sometimes just pumping more air and fuel through the engine is not the answer to making more power in a smaller engine. Unfortunately the real world tends to be more complicated than people think it is.
11.14.22. Looks like Ford®️is doing their best to keep up with GM™️in who can push out failures in design & engineering of power trains‼️ just wait until they start pumping out electric motors…….😮
Poland
@@stevensapyak7971 Is that why the small block Chevy hasn't really changed in over 100 years since it's design was adopted from cadillac in 1913? Yeah, GM designs sure do suck. Can't forget about how awful allison transmissions are, not like they've gotten us through countless wars or anything...
3-4 ??!!? It'd only take about 1/2 an inch to fix that .. mb1 inch for a bigger ' drill hole ' that wasn't a compromise
My 19 Ford Edge with 2L ecoboost just had this issue. 56K miles. Ford identified the problem and had a new long block installed in a week and a day. Not happy about it happening but Ford took care of it at no cost. So far it’s been a pleasant experience.
It’s cheaper for them to sell you junk then when it breaks fix with another junk then actually engineer and produce a reliable design.
Was it still under warranty? Is that why they covered it? We have a 2018 with this problem with over 150K.
@@Dillonmac96 They did reengineer and produce a reliable design though. In 2020 they launched the fixed design, and so far haven't had problems with it.
Love your videos. They helped me rebuild my old 5.4 after timing chain guides broke
my 4.6 experienced same issue I'm now not a fan of either 4.6 or 5.4 engines
4 spark plug threads is plenty, so is apparently 1mm of head gasket between combustion chambers
We had a new 1.6l Long block put in my wife's car last year because of this. Luckily we had extended warranty. Makes me wonder though if the reman motor we got from Ford was the revised version.
same here ... time will tell
Yes it is
@@rays7437 Did the 1.6 Ecoboosts get a new block revision? The only revision I'm aware of is the Cylinder head overheating on the first revision (pre-2014). This lead to cracked heads and oil fires.
@@MHBGT
My understanding is that the long blocks are assembled to order as needed, and include all revisions possible at the time. The warranty on them is 36 months regardless of miles driven. If you had it installed at a Ford dealer then you will have gotten all applicable software updates and the revised HOAT coolant. I would still change the coolant at 3 year intervals, however. Also don't go 7500 on oil changes, do them at 5000. Don't use conventional oil
Dude you saved me thank you so much!!! Because of your video I extended my warranty and it just happened on year 6 at 55k miles.
Other manufacturers did the same thing. GM added drillings (2) normal to the deck in between the cyc's into the open cavity below to try to get some cooling between the cylinders. Erroneously referred to as "steam ports" they helped -but nominally. The joining of the cylinders adds tremendous strength to the block but also makes the bores go out of round since the bores are not cooled uniformly as they expand due to heat. Aluminum blocks can only be more prone to distortion due to the material modulus. Some people have complained that Siamese cylinders contribute to oil consumption due to the out of roundness. Don't think I would go that far to agree with that.
I was a powertrain design engineer (now retired) for a competitor to Ford. Have to say I don't know who validated the slit between the bores like that. Looks problematic and at least prone to plugging.
Plugging was my first thought after head sealing issues. Every automotive liquid cooling system will eventually have built-up deposits so a good design will take that into account. Full cylindrical cylinders and o-ringed head sealing is all that's necessary to fix this. Of course you can't retrofit that. Nor can you retrofit intelligence into humans who can't see the obvious.
I had an old 400 sbc with those steam ports.
@@BruceLee-xn3nn I built several 400 sbc. In addition to the larger displacement due to increased stroke, the short c rod allows for the rod to be at a right angle to the crank while the piston is still higher in the bore and still under greater combustion pressure-helps with torque but increases side loading of the piston in the bore. 511 and 817 are the 2 casting numbers to help identify a 400 sb. The balancer is specific to the 400 as well as the flywheel. The 400 and 454bb flywheels are both externally balanced and look alike but are not interchangeable. These motors can move small buildings in stock trim.
@@johngrein3325 I had one in my 71 nova, it was definitely a torquey motor.
How much cooling can that tiny slit even do?
I've seen some videos of the EcoBoost v6 failing in Ford trucks such as F150 and the Expedition, and several Mustangs.
Been a loyal Ford buyer for a long time with some Lincolns in the mix as well, all V8s though. No more, switching brands because there is no way any of the Engineers at Ford didn't know about this and the many other issues not mentioned here. Planned obsolescence is more obvious than ever before.
The new Ford 7.3 gas engine is the best big block out now.
Avoid turbo daily drivers..
You could say the same for every brand. My dad had a Z71 and an Acadia, but after the lifter collapse on a 2015 Z7- that required a new engine just out of warranty and the Acadia that has had several problems he’ll never own another GM.
All brands have different problems.
@@TheBandit7613 I don't know much about ford but avoid turbo engine for daily unless you got the patience to wait for the car to warm up before wot and wait for the turbo to spool down before turn the key off.
@@Align700nitro I have a diesel Ford F350, I do a lot of towing.
I haven't had any trouble but diesels in general are a pain. All of them.
Oil changes are a couple hundred bucks... expensive maintenance. Have to be careful climbing mountain passes, have to watch the exhaust temperature. That's all turbo diesels. Big rigs too.
Ford created a masterpiece with the 7.3 gas heavy duty engine. They went BACK in time, no more DOHC. Just a conventional cam and lifters.
Gobs of power.
Trying to get too much power from too few cubic inches.
Good to know. I have a ‘17 2.0 I bought used, only have around 60k on it. No issues so far, I’ve had it 3 years. Glad I bought an extended drivetrain warranty.
I wonder if the engineers were told to use particular existing machinery which limited their cylinder centres. This was quite common in industry years ago and might still be when development and production costs are limited. It’s a bit like bearings sealed for life when they seize life is over!
I had asked a friend if they had changed their transmission fluid as their car was over 50K miles. I was told that they asked the dealer and the dealer said that it never needed changed as it was good for the life of the transmission. I told them that means that when it goes bad early from never having a service that was it's life and that the Dealership would be happy to sell them parts or another vehicle. It goes right up there with the 10K mile oil change intervals that are listed now for newer vehicles.
The 2.0 and 2.3 Ecoboost engines are based on the architecture of the existing Mazda MZR engines found in the ~2007 Mazdaspeed 3 and ~2007 Mazda CX-7. They don't have this problem (they don't have the slit between the cylinders, indeed the Mazda is nearly a closed deck block) or the cylinder head cracking problems (the Mazda engines has four exhaust ports instead of the combined port of the Ford engine) but they have timing chain problems.
So Ford got it a bit wrong when redesigning the 2.0-2.3. This doesn't explain how Ford also got it a bit wrong when designing the 1.0 and 1.5 though!
Ford's better idea again. At least they updated the block to prevent the issue down the road, but not great for owners of the current design. Thanks for sharing Brian !
One Word FORD!! Been There and done that! Never again! We had 2 Focus ST cars, transmissions replaced and engine failures. Unbelievable experience! Then we had a 2013 brand expedition that just wouldn't start! The Ford engineers couldn't figure it out and finally gave us another one1 like I said one word FORD!!
Ford "Quality JOB #......LAST"! LOL
2 Focus ST with transmission problems? A manual transmission... Being that not many people talk about transmission issues in that car, your problem was likely operator error lol.
Dude they all have issues of some kind or another. Doesn't matter the brand.
79 mustang that had 200,000km, current 2013 escape with over 310,000km and still going strong. We have never had anything but great cars from Ford. We have owned a few other non-fords and they were all crap.
Thank you for helping everyone be aware of these issues. I have a 2013 1.6 escape with 145k and I am unfortunately waiting for this to start happening
I believe he said the problem did not start till the 2017 model year and that the older ones were fine
@@1976axerhand Nope, this design has existed since the introduction of the 1.6 ecoboost (~2012-2013?). In 2017, I assume Ford stopped stopped using the 1.6 in favour of the 1.5. So yeah, the problem "does not exist" before 2017, but thats just an easy way for Ford to say: Tough luck, your warranty has expired -AKA your problem, not ours.
Have 1,6 ecoboost Volvo v40 tuned down to 120 hp. Im at 88234.7 miles. And it run like a dream
@@erikcarlsen3238 my Fiesta ST needed an engine rebuild at about 90k miles (148k km). Not because engine failure, but due to a spark plug seizing in the head and piston rings being sludged up. Besides the misfire situation, the car still drove great with the gunked up piston rings.
@@MHBGT good that i did not buy the original ford spark plug did buy japan spark plugs the most expensive on the websites
The only thing my cars problem is its fixed now it the dam washer fluid line that is leaking cheap plastic
I have two old volvo v70 d5. A 2003 and a 2004. They are just relentless. Apparently part of the reason is when they leave the factory they were under tuned so not ever really straining. As you say manufacturers are continually trying to get more power out of engines these days
Thanks Brian. Great video
This just happened to my Daughters 17 Escape with 31,000 on it.
It is being fully covered by Ford. New short block.
There was no warning light, high temp indication. Car ran fine.
She took it in for an oil change and the coolant reservoir was empty. It must of just happened.
Thanks for that explanation. It’s important to know that the problem is only with engines of certain years and not all of them.
Nop no high-volume pumps for the second gen 3.5L Eco.
Thank you for showing and explaining the true problems. Time for CEO needs to focus on quality again - REMEMBER “QUALITY IS JOB #1” instead of focusing on maximizing profits for stockholders. Cheaper to build right the first time instead of “RECALLS” that eat away millions out of profits of company and lost customers in the future.
But they'll have left the company with millions before that ever happens. It's all just really elegant and quiet looting.
At Ford JOB #1 has turned to JOB# LAST!
The coolant level on my 2013 Fusion Titanium kept dropping every couple of weeks. I would check the oil and inside the engine bay, but could never find a trace of a leak. Well, one night I was driving on the freeway when I heard the loudest pop I had ever heard inside a car. It sounded exactly like a plastic bottle full of air exploding. Turns out that a coolant hose blew up. I was able to make it home and noticed the coolant reservoir was empty. After the hose was replaced, the coolant level remained the same. Although the pop scared the crap out of me that night, I'm glad the coolant wasn't leaking into the engine.
From my understanding any 2 liter from 2016-2020 had this silly design, and all those before it are sturdy.
Good for you!!!
@@Milez.Bikez24 Are you sure 2015 is safe? I've heard to only get a 2013/14.
My sister's first Escape was a non Ecoboost, it lasted over 200,000 miles and was running when she sold it. Her second Escape is an Ecoboost 1.6 and she’s on her second engine after 150,000 miles. Not horrible, but there’s an example of the difference in longevity. Every manufacturer currently offers turbo gas engines and many do have their shortfalls, most common being premature wear. Hopefully this changes but only time will tell.
If properly maintained, only getting 150k out of a motor is almost criminal for a manufacturer. Engines if designed correctly should be able to get a minimum of 250k out of them before replacement/rebuild. I'm on 443k on my 2010 Crown Vic with the original engine. The example shown here in this video is just piss poor engineering.
The original design of the block should've had those crossovers designed into it, even if it made the engine a little bit longer to keep cylinder wall thickness correct. I have a sneaking suspicion this "fix" on the newer blocks is going to have issues with clogging due to the tiny hole size (unless owners are religious about coolant changes).
@@wrenchrat Given the price of new cars, even boosted engines should last much longer than they actually do. Engines actually pollute more with wear so it really makes no sense to me. Late model cars burn oil like no tomorrow.
I have a 2006 focus with 130000 kms and the engine runs like a top, Im going to keep it running as long as possible. My 2000 Chevy S-10 had almost 400000 kms before I sent it to the scrap yard, the engine (4.3L vortec) and transmission ran perfectly, engine still had lots of pull (fun truck), but everything else was toast. It was rusted all over and the plastic parts were brittle and failing, I was sad to see it go, I wish I had another just like it.
@@wrenchrat for an economical car brand like Ford, who isn't even pushing tech to the limit, i agree. If it was a GT350 it'd be more understandable. But 150k miles is like BMW or Range Rover status 🤔
Did you know the first original lightbulbs lasted for decades? That’s why they built in 1000 hour limit so they fail and you have to buy a new one. Feel stupid yet sheep because they build to fail into EVERYTHING now.
Is there a block ID number to check which version it is?
I don't have one, but I imagine this would be helpful for others getting a new/reman engine. If I was paying, I'd refuse the old design block if that was the one they attempt to install. And I would not trust a salvage engine of the same years.
Thanks for the detailed information. A friend of mine has the 1.5 and this happened but she got a quote for a brand new engine instead of a rebuild with a huge price tag.
This is similar to the infamous 0331 head failures on 2000/2001 Jeeps, only there it was an actual crack that developed in the head, rather than a blown gasket. Always happened right between cylinders 3 and 4, dead center of the engine.
If you took the oil cap off, often you could look straight down and actually SEE the crack!
Happened to my Cherokee. I remember looking at the crack through the oil cap 😂
Tons of the older ford escapes at my work started constantly having coolant leaks. My dealer said it was bad hose clips. Now I know the real issues.
And, I thought Trump was the LAST "honest" person left in the World! LOL
We are taking our 2017 Ford Edge Titanium into the mechanic on the 18th of Sept, 2023 for this exact same issue. Have a couple of questions, if possible:
1. What year has the most updated version of the engine fix?
2. Is there a serial # or any other form of identification # we can get from either the mechanic or our paperwork showing which updated engine we received?
The mechanic is replacing the long block, turbo, water pump, tension pulley and several other parts & belts.
Thank you in advance for any info that may help us.
Yep! Sure enough on my 2017 Edge with the 2.0 EcoBoost it was throwing a code for Cylinder 3 misfire and Coolant sensor. This happened at about 87,000 miles. Service Advisor calls me - ready to sell me a new engine. I tell him- good thing I bought that extended warranty (90,000 mi 😂). Bing Bong - new motor, FREE OF CHARGE.
Which company warranty did you buy? Did they really cover it all?
I have a '23 Maverick with the Ecoboost 2.0. Glad to hear they fixed that ridiculous design. Any other issues with the newer 2.0 Ecoboost I should be aware of when I take delivery?
I know NOT to overheat it and change oil every 3k miles. Thanks for your help.
They seem to be pretty solid now, other than the carbon buildup which is an issue with every direct injection motor. It doesn't harm much of anything though.
7:51 - this seems to be the problem. The gasket. I had mine replaced with a bit thicker version on Ecoboost 2.0, and the coolant leakage issue seemed to go away. It's being only 5 000 km, since the replacement, so I'll keep monitoring. So far all good.
I have to wonder if some of these failures are caused by that narrow slit getting clogged up with gunk and not cooling properly? I know some fail too early to really have corrosion in the cooling system as a cause, but that one had a lot of stuff in there that may have been causing hot spots, which the thinner walls can't tolerate. I also wonder how many are tuned or driven hard versus ones failing Grandma on her way to church. Even spirited driving shouldn't kill it if designed properly, but it would be interesting to know if current owners could change their maintenance and/or driving routines to prevent this problem.
It fails because this engine is boosted and the high combustion stroke pressure is enough to push the headgasket into that slit and loosen it so that it starts leaking coolant into the combustion chamber, thus burning coolant out and causing a low coolant "overtemp" condition
I think ur correct. Didn't look like coolant had been changed. That gunk stopped coolant flow so if owner had changed coolant possiblely cracks from heat didn't happened with normal driving. Brian had said some had run quite awhile before failure.
wrong again....some people drive like granny....but some keep the boost up to a good level.....granny would never blow a head gasket....because when she felt the power coming on...se would lift....grannies grandson on the other hand likes to be pinned in the seat....and that is what ford ADVERTISED....he aint lifting....even if it overboosts or redlines....just how old are you?@@tedr2789
Not since the lifetime sealed PTU has there been such an amazing concept as the slit.
Thays why I went with Toyota 5 years ago and I been happy no problems no worries .
Not everyone can drive a home appliance without the urge to kill themselves. :)
@@BojanBojovic Peace of mind is a bad thing?
I used to rebuild vacuum pumps, ultrahigh vacuum pumps and systems where even the smallest leak means failure to reach spec vacuum. These were sealed with Conflat knife-edge (CF) seals which has a knife edge around the perimeter that bites into a soft copper gasket. Seems to me two flat mating surfaces sealed with a flat gasket so the only thing holding it in place is the friction area compressing it. This engine obviously does not have enough surface area to maintain a grip on the gasket which then slides out of place.
I know top fuel engines use a CF style head sealing system with a copper gasket and a SS wire instead of a knife edge. Why can't this be used for engines like this ford engine with head gasket blowout issues?
Money.
@@Mr371312 Initially yes, but how much money did they lose in the end?😆
Suggest that to Fel-Pro. That could work well for them.
Racing blocks are commonly o-ringed with copper to achieve the seal under extreme boost pressure. The correct solution was found long ago and proven by Offenhauser: You can't blow a head gasket if there is no head gasket. Those engines commonly ran insane amounts of boost without failure.
How did this not show up in testing ? I can’t believe it lasted 100000 miles, Keep up the great work!
Because they don’t test vehicles for 100000 miles
Because its Ford. That's really the only explanation you need.
@@buffhorses3632 every brand have such mistakes.
@@buffhorses3632 Rather have a Ford than a Sheyet-O-Let!
@@markharris5707 they usually test well past 100k miles. They test bed the engines pretty hard. Trouble is on a test bed or even test vehicles, they never really get the hot cold cycle of a normal car.
Good video. Glad you mention which motors are the bad ones. I hate when a single vehicle has a single issue, and people demonize the entire company. I've always had ford's and always had great luck with them. I also always looked up common problems before purchasing.
Depends on the issue. If a company knows that say, a transmission will fail just after warranty (on average) and dies nothing about it I works most certainly demonize that company because that’s a huge repair. Particularly if it’s been a known problem for years.
Cheers
Ford used the same parts for multiple vehicles but only recalled some of them. The 1.5L was recalled for this problem but the 2.0L isn't being recalled even though it's the same issue.
@@tomdavis3038 but if they know that the car is leaking cooant and kills the engine for the 1.5L then why are they not recalling all the cars with the same issue when they know it's the same part.
What I find really interesting is that the head gasket problem is only on the open deck Ecoboost engines. On the closed deck Ecoboost like the 2.0l in the focus ST those engines can really take a beating before giving up.
IMHO all open deck blocks are bad design. And they've had issues for decades.
Did you know the first original lightbulbs lasted for decades? That’s why they built in 1000 hour limit so they fail and you have to buy a new one. Feel stupid yet sheep because they build to fail into EVERYTHING now.
@@johnnicol8598 an open deck is definitely inferior on boosted applications.
I've done some stupid stuff to the motor and tranny and both are running just fine. 6-2ed it instead of 6-4 rev-matching. Went from 3k to 5.5k rev match to over 9k at 70 mph at 35k 4 years ago.
The aero louvers in front of the radiator failed to open after a bird jammed them closed in the hottest part of the summer in Oregon at 105 F and the coolant got up to 280 F with the oil also up to 280 F. Ford did wonderful with the 2.0L Eco on the STs and have heard nothing but great things about them, but horror storries about everything else except the closed deck 2.3L Ecos.
Car just passed 100k and still running strong.
@@perrytilton5221 famous last words. I was bragging about my 2000 4runner passing 350,000 and that same day the front wheel decided to go somewhere without me.
I absolutely dodged a bullet by going with the S trim 2.5l engine in my 2014 Escape. The 1.6l and 2.0l of the early escapes don't seem to have this problem, but certainly hade plenty of others. 143k and zero problems with the 2.5l drive train.
My 2010 Fusion 2.5L just hit 285,000 miles and it still runs fine!
You can't beat a naturally aspirated engine for reliability which is why i stay away from turbo engines. Turbo engines will fail much sooner than a naturally aspirated engine would.
Thank you for your channel and posting the videos that you do. Your videos are great and the comments from viewers are just awesome, which indicates the skill level of the viewers you have attracted. Keep up the good work.
The open deck design has more to do with reducing production costs than cooling efficiency, open deck blocks can be die cast which is much cheaper than sand casting. If you look at all the legendary Japanese turbo motors of the 90s (2JZ, SR20, RB26) they're all closed deck for strength, which is part of why they can produce the power they do. The ecoboost is pretty beefy for an open deck design though, they clearly designed it to take some hefty boost.
open deck is made so that the very top of the bores where the top ring is a few degrees either side of tdc when its at its greatest heat and pressure has the shortest heat path to get to the coolant, if you make it all solid round the top say 12mm of bores then the pistons and rings and ring lands all run hotter. you want your coolant as close as possible to the top 5-10mm of bores.
Agreed
@@mainman2999 But if you treat the piston head with Ceramic then you greatly reduce heat transfer down into the piston and other internals. This is truly the way to go.
you forget to mention the real reason was because the 2jz and Rb26 were cast iron blocks only the heads were aluminum plus the 2jz had extra oil ports on the side of the block to help the oil flow through better. ford uses all aluminum blocks.
You could just tig the slit and resurface. I'm pretty sure it would be fine.
Drilling that hole isn't going to do much. The coolant volume moving through there will be minimal, and the drilled passage still weakens the cylinder walls. Bandaid on a gunshot wound.
Is this the same design flaw occurring with the Mustang eocboost 4 cyl engine to? P303, lost fluid and had to have a new head gasket put on at 50k miles.
Thanks for the video. What can one do to protect such an engine from failure? (I have a 1.6 Ecoboost)
Pray it gets fixed under warranty and stop buying garbage from Ford.
Those eco boost motors were an option for the Ford Falcon . Choice of the Barra 4ltr 6cyl, or the 2ltr turbo 4 cylinder, in a 1.6ton car. Needless to say, the Evo boosts gave up thel ghost at around 200-250,000km, while the 4ltts can survive upwards of 500-600,000km...or more
A 5 cylinder version of the Barra would have been an interesting compromise.
My 4L has 350 on it and my dad's has done 440k they still run like new and I thrash mine Evey day 😁
Great engine the Aussie Barra 4liter!
Daves , l had my ford falcon xe for
12 years , l had the T piece brake
off( coolant) it was picked up &
taken to ford dealer & fixed free
of charge , under warranty but on
year 10 my auto trans packed up
& that cost me $500 change over.
l'm sorry l got rid of it , it's a
collecter car worth big bucks
now that ford closed down in
Australia 😢
I hadn't heard much about these eco boost falcons reliability ,because not many were sold in 4 cylinder guise. Have they been giving out early, is that what you've heard or experienced? 🤔
Brian: I drove Ford trucks for 40 years. I bout a 96 "power joke" & it was an absolute piece of junk
I bought a 97 Ram 2500 with the Cummins 6BT 12 valve & "P" pump. Best truck I have ever owned.
I have watched your videos since day one , & wish the world had more mechanics like you. I do most of my own work (I am NOT a mechanic but I have had many people over the years have me diagnose problems
that shops couldn't) At 84 years of age I pay to have certain work done , since it is more than I want to deal with. I am considering a new pickup, but having watched your innumerable videos of Ford trucks that seemingly ALL have incredible faults & with HUGE repair bills, I am moved to ask if there is any Ford F150 4X4 that is reliable ? If the 300ci in line 6 was available, I would buy a new F150 tomorrow !
Seriously Brian, you are a straight shooter, & I would be interested in hearing what you have to say about a new Ford that is reliable. I have well over 1,000,000 miles on my Dodge diesel, with no serious problems over the years, but so few parts have been replaced that I don't want to make long trips in it, since the likelihood of a breakdown enroute becomes greater every mile. I would appreciate any suggestions you may care to offer. Keep up the good work Sir !
Cheers!, Brian
When are you getting this book published?
A new transmission every 50,000 miles is a serious issue though. I know, it's considered normal maintenance for a Chrysler product, but that's not how it's supposed to be.
97 Dodge Trucks are absolute garbage! The only thing good about them is the Cummins. 97 to 03 Ford's are some of the best year Ford trucks made. 7.3 diesel and the 4.6 and 5.4 Triton 2 valves are great motors. Only reason guys buy a Dodge is because of the Cummins.
main reason I prefer a naturally aspirated engine; whatever you save on fuel economy, you'll give back on the back end with costly repairs. save myself a hassle of going through that bs.
Turbo engines don't save fuel with normal driving. Only on the EPA tests.
Diesels seem to have no problem with being turbo’ed. But still forced induction causes more failure points in general with any system.
Don't forget that "turbo" engines in the "power barn" deliver AWESOME "motion"!
@@TheOzthewiz What is the power barn?
Very nice vid. My wife’s 2017 Fusion Titanium with the 2.0 turbo had this failure about a year ago with only 38000 miles on the car. Thankfully the power train warranty is still in effect and we also bought an extended warranty (car is used) and the issue was taken care of. New long block. Don’t know if the new motor is the new design so the car will go before the warranty expires.
My 17 Fusion had this issue with about 36K on it in Sept 2019. I was told by the service manager the replacement long-block has the newly updated deck surface with the cross-drilled steam holes, so I would think everyone after around the time I had mine replaced should all be getting the updated motor. I noticed the oil fill cap and neck is a little smaller than the original so it looks a little funny under the top engine cover... and I've also noticed all the newer Fusions, Edges, and Escapes are the same so I assume that's maybe an easily visible sign of the updated engine design.
Great video explanation of the issue. Unfortunately, I am going through this issue now with my 2016 Edge. Not happy about it but nothing at this point that can be done to fix it. Car goes in next week but has all the symptoms. Just assume this is the problem.
Any updates?
This is why I love my 20year old DOHC Zetec Focus.
200k miles, no problem at all. Works like a Swiss clock.
Zetec 2.0 is one of the best car engines Ford made. Plus the torque is really something for a little 4-cyl!
@@ianspeckmaier9565 And, NO DCT!
Great video content and important information for Ford customers!
This happened in cylinder #2 in my 2019 Escape SE with the 4 cylinder 1.5 L engine that only had 32,000 miles in May of 2022. Ford had to replace the entire short block under warranty. Thank the Lord that I did not put over 50,000 miles on it before this happened (I might have had to pay for it out of pocket under those circumstances).
you should have at least gottent he engine that is fixed now at least
I was fortunate enough to get an extended powertrainCARE warranty as my issue came across for my 2018 1.5L Ecoboost at 65k miles.
i just had this happen to me i bought 2017 escape 1.5ltr ecoboost never had one thing go wrong since i bought it brande new under ford motor credit until last month it just blew the head gasket i have 62k mi on it whiuch is 2k over the powertrain. I called ford and had my case reviewed from the dealer and ford said pound sand they werent even gonna do a partnership split on cost for me they literally screwed us for no reason. i will never buy another ford again at all. i have 3 more payments on it till its paid off lol.
Surely that hole will crud up over time, they would have been better to lengthen the block by 10mm to give the area required for the gasket, I remember back in the 70's companies were accused of designing in redundancy, thank you for the info. great vlog John
it will, but ford is hoping by then the engine failure from the clogged holes will have at least 250k on them. So everyone will just chalk it up as engine old age.
I've been telling people for YEARS to avoid the 1.5 and 1.6 engines. Also the 1.0
Never had an issue with the 1.0, 5 years of ownership, 35k added to the clock, engine run fine. Problem is, people don’t service them.
@@kd84afc
The problem is the rubber oil pump drive belt that fails and then the engine grenades or locks up. We (normally) have a long block in stock or at the local warehouse for them.
Even with the new design, technicians must use the OE coolant with distilled water. Tap water contains minerals and will clog those tiny cooling passages in between the cylinder walls.
You should use distilled water in any engine, not just these.
This does look like there is corrosion in there which wouldn't be helping things...
@@TonicofSonic I can’t speak for anyone regarding flushing an engine block with tap water. In SW part of the US, we utilize ground water and it’s loaded with minerals. We use soft water to flush the engine blocks.
@@steveg8337 You are right. but most dealers and shops will just use tap/hose water regardless what the engine is.
You can't stop a customer from using tap water. After all its theirs. No matter how much you tell the customers it's wrong to use tap water.
I wonder what it would do if you tig welded the groove solid and machined the block deck. Then drill the passage like the updated blocks.
Exactly what I'm wondering! I don't see why it wouldn't work! Not to mention, it would be lots cheaper than getting a new block!
My experience with 2015 Mustang Ecoboost: engine failed at 29000 miles in January 2021. It was not covered by extended warranty. Is the 2.3 also included in this design defect?
What made the engine fail? Did it catastrophically fail and come apart?
@@volvo09 hydrolocked. It was gulping coolant.
@@peterrodolakis ah sh1t... Thanks
Yes. Defective. 2015-2019 2.3’s are defective. Fixed in 2020 but I don’t know if all 2020’s are OK or not.
My 2016 Focus ST had this failure at about 180k, though I believe it's closed deck (which is partly why I bought it!), though it isn't listed in the TSB or the CA suit. Started it up and blew coolant like a SpyHunter smoke screen. Cleared up a little when it warmed up, but still smoked as if a normal cold start. Car ran completely fine with no sign of head gasket failure and didn't consume much coolant considering, so I thought it was a blown turbo coolant seal. Replaced turbo, still blowing. TSB states to replace block. With the market crazy and people driving junkers longer than they would, I couldn't find anyone to swap the engine around me in a remotely useful timeframe (only car) and I'm no longer bothering to do that heavy work myself, so I sold it (within hours in spite of complete honesty!). The TSB doesn't say what the failure is and the CA suit was written by lawyers who would probably mistakenly put their eyes out if they tried to use a screwdriver, so this was awesome to see, thanks!
PS, though it looks like a better solution, I still wouldn't trust that fix. Though I'm wary and not driving one now (GR86), I would still consider another Ford, since the ST was a great driving car and needed nothing but the EGR valve in that 180k miles, which was a recall part, but was so cheap and easy to replace that I just did it myself and my '12 Focus SE (manual transmission) needed nothing at all and ran perfect for over 200k when it was totaled.
Spy Hunter!!!! Played the shiz out of that game back in the day. 👍🏻
Dude my car white smokes like hell when cold and lesser so when really warm, so suggesting coolant mix. I've had the head gasket replaced at ££££ money and it still happens. My car though, on 70k miles on the clock, you were more luck with 180k miles....Me? I bought the car at 64k miles! Been constantly topping it up with coolant, even after new head gasket!
@@CrazyInWeston Sounds like the same problem. Most of the engines that I've read about failing didn't get as far as mine, but I was driving 40-50k miles/year. I think it's a time rather than mileage issue. (Like most things. People judge cars on mileage, but I usually get the same time out of my components-except tires because I drive like a dick-as others get, but I get three times the miles. Even things that would seem more mile-dependent, like suspension, which I don't understand, but it's what I get.) With mine, I had no hydrocarbons in the coolant or coolant in the oil and the engine ran perfect temperature, the exhaust just stank of burnt coolant and it smoked. Both my Fords used a little coolant from new, though, which I was first worried about since this isn't 1985 and these are sealed systems, but as it was such a small amount (barely 1/2 gallon in 200k miles) and a lot of people reported the same thing, I figured it was an odd quirk, but now I suspect the non-turbo engine has the same issue, but it doesn't usually surface maybe since there's less stress in the system (or the cursed DCT sends the car to the junker first, though mine was a special-ordered manual!). Sorry to be the bad-news source, good luck!
10 year old 2.0L still going strong. No issues.
That is because you have an earlier version that is not open deck.
@@FordTechMakulocois the 1.6 focus ecoboost a good car?
What Mileage you've got on yours?
@@GuitarOfTheBlues 108
I have a 2011 Mondeo with the 1.6 ecoboost with 160hp. Driven 220.000 km with it. Sofar no big issues, the coolant hoses to the intercooler were replaced twice because the started leaking. Part of the cooling system was replaced with a recall a few years back. It drives really nice and comfortable, here in Holland at 100 or 130 and in Germany at higher speeds. No problems, no need to top up oil or coolant between annual services (15 to 20k).
Great visualization. With ther new design I still dont have much confidence. To me the holes although will let coolant pass how long and what happens when they get clogged by something? Why couldnt the designers add an inch and half to two inches to the overall lenght of the engine and make it much more robust? I was thiking of a next gen Ranger, but maybe my 2014 F150 with 5.0 is a keeper.. Keep up the great videos.
agreed, or at least pass the opening under the cylinder deck so you have full sealing surface and strength at the top of the deck
Because bean counters. Saving pennies during production makes profits. If you add length to the engine, think of all the components that have to be lengthened. More cost.
Also, these engines are a one size fits many car models. There might not be enough room in the too small engine compartment because the engine compartment isn't driver usable space. Imagine if the mechanic was consulted during design. You wouldn't have to pull the entire dash to replace an AC condenser.
Honda does the same thing with the slit between the cylinders. We are also seeing a ton of head gasket failures on the 1.5 turbo engines.
For anyone wondering like I was, apparently the updated cross drilled designs were used in the 2019+ Ford Ranger 2.3 ecoboost.
When I worked in a Chevy dealership I can’t tell how many 2.0 I replaced due to failed head bolts which were torque to yield.
i recall many years ago i think the" iron duke" ! engine the head bolts broke but if lucky they broke in a jagged way that if u put bolt back in and pressed down as turning u could sometimes walk the broken threaded end out of block -memories !
If the engine has coolant intrusion, and the vehicle has high miles, can using a head gasket sealer stop the intrusion for a little longer? Allowing you to get a little more use out of the vehicle?
It is hard to believe that Ford let's these go without confirming these issues and dealing on the back end, but they do. I have seen 2 of these where I work just in the last week. Not certain it was this exact issue, but I would bet that's the case. Both had head gasket leaks, confirmed by block test and chocolate milk crankcase. Thanks for shedding some light on this.👍👍
Because Ford doesn't care about long term reliability. They hope you just drive it and trade it in within a few years
how do you test for something like this putting that many miles on it to do make it start leaking
The forbidden milkshake!
I have 2014 1.6 ecoboost 200hp with 336 000km (~210 000 miles) and everything is running perfect stock, I had to replace just valve cover gasket amd maintenance items. It's strong engine (some people push it up to 300hp with stock internals) but very easy to overheat and easy to damage due to too long oil intervals/wrong oil. The cracking occurs due to no/too low coolant. In 2.0 and 2.3 it's different situation and they like to bend rods or piston cracking.
They improved the head design in 16. So they don't overheat as easily as the earlier model.
Another great video, thank you, ur a masterful instructor.
I owned 2 bay shop out of high school, I had built some Chevy drag racers and sold them, People in neighborhood got to kno i rebuilt a junkyard car while in high school, my first 1955 265ci chevy I rebuilt from scratch, got it from ja unk yard, I used the Clinton Manuels to teach myself. Business took off I had same attitude u do. Do it right the first time or don't do it at all. I didn't advertise didn't have a sign even. Word of mouth, the thieves were same as today. Had to close & goto Vietnam, drafted. Then to college, in retrospect shud have reopened, white collar work sucked. Ted Rabens
The engine had been around roughly 145 years when they designed this engine and it got to the production stage. They never saw the potential issue?!? Wow 🤯
Amazing what junk they can produce these days when they don't care if the car lasts past the warranty period.
@@jayhemfindsyoualways love how people claim older cars were so much better when in reality they weren’t. There are shit cars today and there were shit cars back then
The 70's were good to them.
except nowadays you need to sell 2 kidneys and your child to buy a new car and 90% of the mass consumer engines are shit, yea no thanks, i'll stick to my old engine@@Mow_Lester
Dont think this is same as old engine 4 cylinder....
I had this happen on my 2018 Fusion SE 1.5L. Fortunately, my dealership replaced the block under warranty. When my lease was up, I was uneasy about keeping the car long term, so I turned it back in. Never know if their "fix" is a long term one or just another stop gap. Thanks for the detailed information!
Technically, replacing the block is replacing the engine. So they didn't fix it, they took the old engine for scrap and put in a new engine.
@@danielpassigmailcom it was a short block replacement not an ENTIRE engine.
@@WanderingAroundAZ The short block is the engine minus the heads. i.e. it is the whole bottom 2/3 of the engine, all the pistons, all the rods, and the crankshaft. If any component can be considered the engine itself the short block is it.
@@danielpassigmailcom vs a long block which includes the heads, etc. AKA the ENTIRE engine. Geezus sorry I didn't say "short block" in my original comment. I know what was done to my Fusion. Move on.
So what happens when that tiny drilled coolant passege becomes clogged on an old engin. Do we get pre ignition knock and eventual engine destruction from the hot spot.
it amazes me that Ford would think such a design would work at all. Unless they designed it to fail.
Fantastic video and detailed description of the engineering defect and fix. I had to have the 2.0T engine replaced on my 2017 MKZ 2.0T, fortunately under warranty at 45k mikes. Quick question- do they replace just the long block and reuse the existing head or do they replace the block and the head when they do this under warranty?
45K out of a Lincoln.....what a joke. My dad had a 79 Town Car that did 548,000 documented miles. Ford is a pure joke now and I won't near one again.
I've got a 17' Escape with the turbo 4 and so far, so good. What are the percentages of these engines with issues? Hoping and praying mine will last. Don't need ANY engine block issues!
Excellent explanation of the eco-boost problem! Thank you! 👍🏻
My 2017 2.0 was replaced at 30K. So far it’s good at 80K. Wonder if I’ll eventually end up having the same issue again.
My ecobust is 13 years old, at 21, antifreeze flowed into 3 and 4 cylinders, drove for a whole year until the caustic steam from the exhaust pipe fell down)))! Repairs were made in February 22, the mileage was 145 thousand km. I have already driven 15 thousand km after repair - everything is fine! The main thing is high-quality gasoline and do not overheat the engine!
If the 1.6ford kuga overheating can rebuild or better brought new engine please help?
It's amazing you can make engines for over a hundred years and not figure out that this was a bad idea.
it`s all about profit. Make it as cheap as possible.
Exactly , engines can be made to be indestructible. Look at many famous diesel engines. Have you seen thier internals . They look like they belong on drag cars. Rods the size of my forearm. 2in wrist pins. It can be done.
I have a 1st gen 2.0L EcoBoost my my 2013 Ford Taurus and it's still going strong at 163k miles. It's a pretty solid motor actually I really like the way it runs and delivers power, especially the torque. Ford should've just kept the same design after 2015. Things would've been fine for them.
buy a lottery ticket
Almost 211k miles on my 2014 Focus ST. Almost all highway miles though. Still going strong.
I had a 2014 Fusion with the 2.0L and 130K miles. It ran well but the 1st gen was known to have turbo issues and mine was starting to fail, the block was good though. It seems with the new generation they addressed the turbo problem but messed up the block.
13-14 doesn't have the block issue on the 2.0 afaik.
Wasn't it a Mazda block not a ford block?
Can you do the engine swap from up top, or do you absolutely need to drop the engine?
Great video, very informative. In December 2020 we bought a new 2020 Escape. First year of the redesign. It has a 1.5-liter engine with 3 cylinders. It sounds like a tractor when it idles but performs well and we get very good mpg. Wondering what you think of this engine?
Thanks,
Bill
Columbia, SC
I think Ford is making more money now having deleted 1 piston and it will probably completely fail just outside of warranty! Good Luck!
Praying to God my mother's 2014 Escape 1.6 EcoBoost never suffers from this (although it probably will cause she has endless and neverending issues with it). Doesn't surprise me with it being a Ford. Thanks for putting this information out, Brian... you are very brave to do it (unlike Ford).
1600 cc is really a motorcycle engine, pushing a vehicle the size of an Escape.
@@wayneessar7489 my Tucson runs the same engine displacement and the only potential issues it has is oil consumption. It's far more reliable and engineered to withstand the boost and many others, the 1.6 EcoBoost is not made to withstand the boost pressures and whatnot.
@@MDKN22 Very good, I was only hoping to convey that a larger engine runs at lower stress than a smaller one pushed to the limit.
I believe he said this problem did not start till the 2017 model year, and he said the older ones were fine
@@1976axerhand with all the issues her car has had, I don't believe that, cause that data he mentioned came from Ford.
Someone please answer this question I have - the 2.0 in our '18 MKC failed at 37K miles due to coolant intrusion, the dealer replaced the engine in MAY 2023 (assembled in March 2023), and this July, the REPLACEMENT ENGINE ALSO failed from coolant intrusion after ONLY 4,000 miles. The second replacement engine in it right now was manufactured this April and has the SAME exact block part number (J2GE 6006 AC) as the failed first replacement engine at 4,000 miles. The block part number on the original engine (assembled in December 2017) has the block part number HV 206 AA. Has Ford not solved the coolant intrusion problem despite "supposedly" redesigning the block starting around the 2020-ish model year?
The powertrain chief design engineer should be called on the carpet for this one. All the design rules of thumb would have said no to such a design. The thermal computer models that involve heat and pressure should have caught this engineering error. Ford has a long history in engine design and testing and has a duty to at least split the repair costs for any units not under factory warranty. But it will never happen unless court action forces them to do it.
It really is crazy how so many car companies have made stupid mistakes with engines in the past decade or so. Some had sand left in the blocks from casting, some had machining problems, some had design flaws like these. After 100+ years you'd think they'd get it right. My Dad told me about a Fiat they had in the 60s that needed head work every year or two because of a hot spot between two cylinders, and here we are today with the same problem lol.
My son’s 2017 2.3 Mustang EcoBoost Premium went EcoBoom due to this design.
Ford said tough luck. I fixed it myself with a new head, head gasket, ARP custom age 625+ studs and FRPP cams. Disappointed in Ford not supporting recalls on this known defect.
Same! and the dealer tried to blame my daughter for ruining her engine which only had 60k miles. They tried to "help" her by offering financing for 12k new engine. This was for a 2018 Ford Mustang 2.3 Mustang EcoBoost.
@@leilaruthsalinas8046 That dealer deserves a "shout out" for going ABOVE AND BEYOND for a customer! These "stealership" dealers are DISGUSTING!!!!
I bought a 17 ford edges ecoboost with 34,000 miles ….with 38,000 miles I started getting a misfire on hot start for a few seconds.
Check engine light eventually and took it in under warranty…code for #3 misfire.
Coolant getting in the cylinder for your described issue..
I ended up getting a 2021 brand new engine off the production line …was glad they updated the whole thing instead of just putting a short block in it.
Turbo charging is great, if your car is brand new. But the boost pressure the turbo puts on the engine will lead to problems. You'd think they'd have figured this all out by now.