Jeep Gladiator S&B Cold Air Intake DYNO TEST Pt 2 - MUST SEE the RESULTS!!!
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- Do Cold Air Intakes increase HP or Fuel economy on Jeeps? We put the JT o the Dyno to find out! Check out Part 2 of our testing of the S&B Cold Air Intake to see how it performed overall compared to the OEM intake on my Jeep Gladiator!!!
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I almost dropped 300 on the S&B but after this video I didnt... Saved 300... Thanks man
You bet!!! Thanks for watching!!!
I bought before watching this, however, I haven’t installed, and won’t. Thanks for the vid, good job.
Thanks Reginald!!!
I would love to hear S&B's reply to this.
Get a K&N oiled high-flow washable air filter and replace the stock paper filter. $65 vs $300 and be done with it!
This may have been mentioned - the pre-intake side of most ECM controlled vehicles are pretty sensitive to changes to the inlet tube. I am speaking from humble hobby-level tuning experience (mostly trained with GM Gen III/IV) and not the ‘neural net’ the gladiator/FCA is using, but the end game is about the same. The calibration for the ECM to measure the incoming air is hosed once the inlet duct is altered. Meaning between the air box and the throttle blade. The engine will run lean (if the inlet duct was a flow improvement) relative to its MAF sensor (or combo of sensors with Gladiator’s Neural Net). Outcome: engine will run lean but be corrected by O2 sensors in real time... until you roll into open loop - i.e. full throttle for what ever minimums are programmed into your ECM.
On a full throttle pull, the engine is programmed to richen up the fuel mixture (from 14.xx moving toward 12.xx-ish (normally aspirated!)) to prevent detonation/knock, and ignores corrections from the narrow bands. The narrow bands typically cannot read much outside a point or so from stoich. Probably spelled that wrong. Anyways... With a lean F/A mixture, your ECM will start to detect knock long before we can by ear, pull back the timing bias from high octane tables, moving toward the ‘low’ tables, thus dropping power until the knock goes away. I think your friend with the dyno touched on this with the mention of tuning. Basically, the engine needs to relearn how to measure how much air coming in so it can fuel properly. It’s pretty easy on the GM platform. Wish I knew more about the dodge/Jeep side as I write this. I pulled my Gladiator tune, but have not tuned on it yet - meaning that I don’t want to give info I have no experience with. Oh! It’s UA-cam! I can do that here, right? JK. Not the Jeep JK... I mean just kidding.
Squirrel! I think it would be interesting to see the dropped-output dyno power vs your WIDE band fuel numbers vs your knock data. If you guys were data logging on the run, I’d bet you could see your total timing applied and knock timing (subtracted)... maybe even a slightly lean exhaust output. Hopefully this ramble is helpful to someone out there. Later and thanks for the very informative vid!
That’s great feedback and insight!!! Agree with you, you could experiment with this in so many different ways if time and budget were unlimited!
Just a quick mike drop: After market Cold Air Intakes imports more air thereby increasing efficiency by supplying more air. Your test did nothing to compare the OEM verse Aftermarket, as the vehicle was not moving. You were not able to get an increase in air flow as again, no movement.... I have read only two of the comments below, so I am hoping I am not the only one seeing this fatal flaw in your testing and ultimately your data / results...
The 2020 and 2021 Jeep Gladiators all models are developing leaking axle seals on primarily the rear drivers side. Jeep knows this and are replacing the axles under warrenty. There is a good chance that a recall is coming soon.
My dyno results after a full day of driving I took the vehicle to dyno comp I got 22 whp on the S&B Intake
Yea this goes along with everything I’ve seen on dynos so far with the S&B CAI systems. The ONLY one that has made a difference that could be considered is the K&N black series. That has consistently gained a good 10 hp at peak of 6,200 rpm and the most increase at 4,900 of 12.1hp! With tq about the same. I ran one in my last truck I just traded in for my new 2024 Gladiator, that was a 3.6V6 Colorado, a very similar engine to the Pentastar. That K&N black series gained a significant 14.1hp at peak 6,400, with 11 lbs ft tq at 4,200. So I’ll be sticking with the K&N, black series when the time comes. The first will be LED headlight bulb replacement, then new Bilstein 8100’s, then CAI. NO lift or bigger than 32-33” tires, with highway rain tread.
Interesting results. Makes me wonder what the difference would be with the oem air box and a paper filter vs something like a K&N.
I exactly that. I kept the OEM air box and just replaced the paper filter with a K&N filter. I’ve gained about 1-2 MPG’s and slightly better responsiveness.
Very interesting! It makes sense that the engine would need to be tuned for more air flow with that other intake.
Agree! Very neat learning experience for me!!!
After installing CAI you need to tune the PCM I had the same issue and I was not happy with the result but after Tunning my Jeep I can saw more HP
how did you do that?
@@alexcorreia8145 i had to unlock the PCM and took it to HP running shop in UAE. without running you won't get the maximum benefits
You didn’t add a tuner! This comparison is not conclusive. The parameters are set to factory specs. The tuner will set new parameters and achieve higher results
Great video - caught this at the right time. Was looking into the S&B. Did my homework for me. It’s all about performance for me at the end of the day. The rugged ridge snorkel as mentioned earlier in the trail would be the next thing to explore to see if it brings additional performance improvements in addition to the water crossing benefits.
I’m glad you found the video and it was helpful!!! Good luck with the Snorkel!!!
Were there any variations on the air/fuel ratio between the S&B vs OEM? Since you had the S&B so long, I wonder if the long term fuel trims had adapted to the increased air fuel (ie, add more fuel), and then switching back to the stock air box, might result in a richer mixture (stock air box flows less air, but fuel trims haven't adapted yet). It would also be interesting to data log the ignition timing and compare. With such a significant power change, it really seems like the computer was pulling timing out. Hard to imagine the S&B filter alone would be that much more restrictive. Thanks for taking the time to document all results and post the video. Good stuff!
It’s a great point and agree I would love to data log all of those factors!!! I did consider the fuel trims, but with the limited amount of time and availability to a dyno, this was the best I could do. I had considered trying to go to the dyno on separate occasions with each setup, but with scheduling and trying to make sure the temps and humidity were the same, it became very difficult. Looking at the fuel/air results from the dyno runs, run 1:1 is very similar in the fuel/air ratio. On run 3:3, the OEM kicks in more fuel starting at about 5650 RPMs and continues through about 6300. In my opinion, it’s safe to assume, that at the very best, the S&B would be equal to, but not better than the OEM. Again, great point and thanks for bringing it up!!!
You’re detailed. Pt1 and Pt 2.. this was awesome! Thank you!
Thanks for doing this but I think your computer needs time to relearn tables. Closed and open loops, they need time to relearn.
Understood. I talked to a lot of mechanics in the field before doing the test, and it’s my understanding that with these newer vehicles they update very quickly. The dyno that was done on the CAI was done after driving with it on for over 100 miles. However, to your point, the stock intake was swapped out and tested onsite during the testing. That being said, in my opinion, I think there’s enough data there to suggest that the CAI doesn’t provide a significant difference in performance, plus or minus.
Dang, Im gonna opt for the airaid intake. I just don't understand out of all my years of dealing with modding cars that the 3.6 for some magic reason losses power. If I lose power and Im sure ill feel it Ill be slammed.
Should do a run without any intake, just a naked throttle body. That just might be eye opening.
GREAT TEST. FELLOW IRVING GALDIATOR OWNER HERE. THANKS FOR THE INFO.
Nice, that’s AWESOME!!!
watched both videos, seen quite similar results on others. I will say that you measured ambient vs intake air temp, no one else did, interesting numbers. spoke to two different jeep mechanics at two different dealerships, both of them said same thing to me, that, the computer says how much air is going to into that engine. neither of them thought it would Improve fuel mileage either. I do believe the s&b, and other aftermarket setups could easily be less restrictive, this is what I see in the dyno results. off the start line, or from a full stop in real world driving 🚗 there was a difference with the s&b , but after you've reached hiway speed, factory did same or better. its visible on the graphs because those two lines cross over one another. just bought a 2022 rubicon gladiator and at 2000km had oil & water in the filter compartment, mechanics tell me, at the dealership, that its coming back thru the pcv valve, and there is no fix for it yet. stay posted, there might be a recall, or some other solution offered by jeep. so for now, I've decided to stay stock setup. otherwise, thankyou, comprehensive test, much effort, appreciate this. 👍
The only thing I could add that hasn’t been mentioned, your insignificant mileage increase of OEM versus the S&B is 5.5%, hardly insignificant. Don’t want to knock a product I’ve never used, but I’m left wondering...exactly where is the improved efficiency in this? Louder, but cooler, with reductions in every other objective measure of efficiency leaves me scratching my head. Anyway, 2 great videos, you had me skipping sleep to follow this to the end.
Another awesome video! This makes perfect sense- oem manufacturers spend years developing and optimizing these powertrains. If they could improve performance by simply changing the intake without affecting reliability, nvh etc... they would have done it. Now add an exhaust and tune and you could probably squeeze more out of it- but likely at the cost of reliability.
Thanks for your continued support Adam!!!
engineers tune vehicles for on-road noise comfort, not the full performance.
I appreciate the effort in this test. The dyno told the real story. I would have liked to see a run with the lid open on the S&B as it seems like their airbox design is fairly restricted down compared to others that are otherwise open. However my experience with CAI's is that the gains are usually overstated.
I agree that the open road isn't going to make much difference. Cooler air for the S&B is cooler for the stock set up, too. And 4 degrees is nothing. Certainly not worth 12 hp. Probably not worth 2 hp. Thanks for doing this test! Looks like the FCA engineers know their engine and what it needs. S&B is a great company, and honest. Now we know why they didn't promise horsepower. You can bet that if they got more power they'd advertise it. (As they should.)
Agree 100%!!! The cool factor is tempting, especially sense S&B has the cowl add ons making them functional...
So glad I got a standard trans....jeep + stick shift = Real!
better to just connect a small hose to your inside ac cabin vents to suck REAL cold air into your engine air intake into the air filter box. For a TRUE COLD air intake system...atleast if your AC works and you have your ac on. just have to have a electronic cut off if you have the heat on in the vehicle.
I’d be curious to see if the Mopar CAI would provide any gains vs stock. Additionally, would a more efficient air filter in the factory box give a performance bump.
I’d love to see this as well. I do like the idea of being able to continue and use the OEM filter as well. What is interesting about the Mopar CAI is the one I saw requires you to cut your hood. It would be very tough for me to make that type of commitment. 😂
Im so on the fence over aFe and K&N. I was considering the Mopar being Mopar engineered it would have to be more effective.
He stuck with the OEM!!! Bold move bud! The proof is in the pudding though, I don't blame you! Once again another outstanding evaluation! I look forward to the lift install, no doubt it will be a trend setter.
Thanks John!!! Looking forward to your next video as well! Looking forward to seeing your onboard air solution. That’s next on my list after the lift, so I’m excited to see what you have in store!!!
I have already been sharing it with some people. A 12hp loss and more importantly 12 ftlb loss is really sad.
I appreciate it!!! This just further supports your evaluation of the OEM intake. You called it!!!
If it can be done, a dyno with a catback would be awesome!
That was the original plan. The first video series with the CAI, then a following video with the catback, but after I did the CAI and saw the results, I aborted. 😂
I'd like to see you do a test with the Injen intake. They claim 11 hp and 11 torque gains.
Thanks for sharing this awesome video. S&B promises more airflow, but in the end of the day horsepower and fuel economy that matters. I definitely will keep my OEM air intake.
You bet! Thanks for watching and supporting the channel Erico!!!
The S&B looks like it has 2 removable access panels- the clear one on top, and a smaller one on the forward side. With these 2 panels removed, the filter would still do its job, but it would seem to have access to much more air. I think i would have tried removing these 2 panels and ran the dyno again. If this would then outperform the OEM, then it seems like the S&B would actually be better than stock. If going through deep water, you would just reinstall the lower, forward panel?? I wish we could have seen the results with these 2 removable panels removed, then ran on the dyno... Thanks for a great set of videos though!
Thanks for the video. Before watching this video, I made the decision to only replace the filter. Having experience tuning engines, I expected similar results. You can add quite a few bolt-ones and make power. You won’t see best results until the computer is properly tuned. Love your videos and looking forward to more mods on my Rubicon.
Good call on the filter only! Thank you for all your support of the channel!!! 🙏🏼
This is great! The data always wins out + I love this guys straightforward and honest evaluation.
Thank you Lawrence!!! Really appreciate the support of the channel! This video was really fun to make, as I was pretty surprised by the results.
Great video man! Very thorough and honest.
I wonder if S&B tuned that intake for lower RPMs where we do 95% of our driving. My JL rarely sees 4500+ RPMs
That’s a fair question J Cruse! They do a good job only claiming increased airflow, and nothing else (i.e. increased fuel mileage or HP), therefore I’m of the belief if there’s any performance increase it’s negligible. That being said, it sounded awesome!!! My buddy bought it from me and loves it! By the way, thanks for supporting the channel!!!
Did you seriously just say they tuned an intake for lower RPM’s? This might be the most idiotic thing I’ve ever seen anyone say in my life. It’s a tube and a filter.
Thanks for saving me $300 that I can put towards my side steps!
You bet!!! Thanks for watching Anthony!
I just bought a gladiator yesterday and I’m in Rosharon Tx. Ya sure did a great video! Thank you!
Congrats!!! Thank you for watching!
Love the video, You have saved me some money that I can apply elsewhere.
Thanks for the information. I wonder if a Rugged Ridge snorkel would bring in more air. Both the s&b and OEM use the same hole to get air in so maybe a new air hole would help. Again awesome series and love the non biased information.
Thanks Michael, I’ll really appreciate it!!! That’s a GREAT question!!! If someone were going to run a snorkel any way, to allow for higher water, they would be perfect to test it. I’d love to see that!
Michael Diaz I was thinking the same thing. An snorkel also has the gain of more clearance related to water.
Thanks for the video. Thanks for the honest feedback.
Oh it's you. I watch your channel too
I'm so glad you made this video. I have been debating on whether to buy the S&B or not. Now I have decided. Thank you!
Happy to share my experience and really glad it helped you!!! Thank you for watching!!!!
Thanks for the research, really impressive work on your part.
Thank you so much! Really appreciate you watching!
No replacement for displacement! Attempts to improve performance of a V6 waste money that is better saved for Hemi.
Money is better spent on forced induction
m1abrams 1776 Hemi or LS , forced induction in a V6 is a failure waiting to happen. It’s all in the name “forced induction “ lol . forces that poor V6 apart.
I wonder how this one (AFE POWER SUPER STOCK INDUCTION INTAKE SYSTEM 55-10009D) would go, keeps stock box, but "upgrades" filter and intake tube.
Great video! I wonder if this would be for most CAI or just that one. Hmmm. Was looking into the AFE.
There’s a lot of firm believers in the Jeep community that believe none of them work on a Jeep. That being said, if you want it, get it! I’d say at best it would be minimal improvement that wouldn’t be really noticeable at the wheel other than sound and placebo effect of better response to the throttle.
OMG, can't belive the gas price per gallon!
If it’s “efficient” that one would receive from it, but it’s not translated to gains in fuel efficiency and or horsepower. Then where is the “efficiency” gains to be had? I don’t see how this or a cat-back provides anything other than sound. Like he says, if you want it do it, but know it’s not doing anything for you on performance.
Thanks!!! I also watched Ben’s video, as a matter of fact his channel is what inspired me to put some videos out of my mods. As you mentioned, he has a different CAI (AFE, I believe), so it’s hard to say. Also, his tests, just like mine have a lot of variables in it, so it’s really hard to say what the true impact of a CAI is on a Jeep. In my opinion, very simplistically spoken, if you like the added sound, spend the money! If not, spend it somewhere else. But as I always say, it’s your Jeep, your money, do what you want and don’t let anyone else influence that!
I have been searching and searching on UA-cam for information on the Mopar CAI and have not been able to find anything. During that extensive search (about two months), your video didn't appear until today. On the 2021 order sheet for a JT there is the option for a Mopar CAI. I chose that option, so I've had the Mopar CAI from the get go. Therefore, for me it's stock and I don't have any before and after comparison to make. I know very little about automobiles. I was assuming that the FCA engineers did and that in offering a CAI from the factory it meant it would add performance. Maybe I was snookered.
But this is what my amateur mind is wondering: Does the testing on a dyno in a shop replicate real word performance on the road? What about when I'm towing my 5,000 lb. Airstream (I have a Sport S/Maxtow Package)? How about pulling up a long grade at altitude? In the heat of desert? In the cold of the snow? I suppose these are things we can't know, and I'm probably asking them hoping to justify my having spent the extra on the factory installed CAI.
Anyway, I love my JT, and I appreciate you video. Thanks.
Hey Jeff, you are spot on!!! In all the different scenarios you mentioned, the vehicle and intake will respond and perform differently. Therefore, it’s hard to come to a “hard and fast” rule or conclusion. I tried to replicate the performance difference in the same conditions (the best that I could), but to your point this is only one scenario. I love my JT too and glad to hear that your enjoying yours as well!!! Cheers!!!
Hey mate so the stock intakes is better than the off markets intake..my jeep gladiator 2021 i bought brand new it's drinks a lot of petrol ⛽️ im searching if there's anything can fix the problem
I didn’t find it to help the fuel mileage.
@@21SethG what's about the intake factory one is better aftermarket
I know this is an older video but I have a question for you. We’re you running 87 octane for the dyno pulls?
Thanks for this honest evaluation/break down. This is only the second vid with a dyno test that I could find for this. I have an 08 4-door and always wanted to know if aftermarket CAI is a waste of time and money. The other video was a CAI and exhaust add. I just don't see it as worth it for the money spent. Maybe just aftermarket filter might be ok. I'll stick with just regearing it to fix any acceleration issues.
Your welcome! Thanks for watching! I had the same question and just wanted to get to the bottom of it for my own curiosity.
So we know a tune on stock can push this to just over 300 HP and I think same in torque. Because that's what this engine in a dodge does stock. I wonder if say midgrade gas, a CAI and a tune would bet anymore.
Guess we'd have to look at tuned Charger/Challengers to be honest.
I wonder if the 2.0 turbo engine would experience the same outcome!
Good question!!!
Great video, thank you for the data driven insights.
Good show. Thanks. It helps with my decision.
Wow I think you just saved my about $700.00
You should do the Ripp Supercharger coils. They give Dyno proven power gains that are amazing.
Thank you, you saved me a couple hundred dollars
You bet!!! Glad you found it helpful! Thanks for watching and supporting the channel!
One question. Are you blowing a lot of air into the intake area? if not, it's not a good dyno test. You're wasting your time. All air intake systems assume the vehicle is traveling at a high speed, and thus receiving gobs of air into the intake area. You'll need a large, high speed fan that can create the same wind velocity you would experience when sticking your hand out of the window while driving in the highway.
If all of those requirements are met, and the results are not noticeable than probably not worth the investment. And don't get me started with the aftermarket exhaust systems available for the Gladiator. Tried a few and have not found one worthy. In summary, these trucks were not designed for that. Better to just focus on upgrading the "capabilities" instead of "performance." thanks for the vid.
Great job! Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for watching Bruce!
Nice job on the video, you just save me $300 plus. Did S&B ever got back to you on the test you did?
Do you think the mopar air intake would do better?
Those are some shocking results. I wouldn’t be mad if it was same for same with better sound but this is a bummer.
Hell of a video
Thank you Kevin! Appreciate you watching and supporting the channel!!!
Let's see, less horsepower, less torque, have to spend money and time to have a little sound difference and a clear top over the air filter - you just saved me time and money - thanks - so glad I watched this prior to wasting the money that I was about to do.
Why don't they use they put the auto in the manual shifting where you shift on your own? Do auto owner know they can use more than just D.
Cold intake dont work if you dont remap you put more air so the fuel have to follow to
Great video and very informative! Were you more surprised by those results with the intake and after learning that, would you try or recommend any other brands for actual HP or mileage gains?
Thanks for watching Trevor!!! Honestly, I was a little surprised and disappointed... LOL Mainly, because the JT isn’t just a Jeep, it’s also a truck. Therefore, I personally wanted to run the CAI and exhaust, which I already purchased as well. That being said, there are other brands that claim a HP gain. For me personally, I won’t be adding CAI or exhaust to my JT unless I super charge it, which I hope to eventually. BUT for anyone that enjoys the added sound when driving daily, I say go for it! I mean, no one buys a Jeep for power or fuel mileage anyways. That’s just my 2 cents anyways...
JT Mods you got that right. I have my own JT and want to start running 35s or 37s then move into the exhaust and all. Keep up the great work!
Thanks again for all the support!!! Do you have an Instagram I can follow! Love seeing everyone’s builds! I may already be following you! LOL
Great vid. Thanks alot really appreciate you man. How about k&n? You think you can do that one lol
LOL!!! I wish I could! Thanks for watching and supporting the channel!!!
Thanks! I will stay with the OEM!
You bet, thanks for supporting the channel!!!
Great honest video.
Thank you for watching!!!
Great video. I'm wondering if the S&B is better suited for the 2.0L Turbo setup?
I’m not sure Greg, that’s a good question though.
Was doing some research on if cai was worth it for a gladiator. Immediately deleted the cai from my shopping cart at least until I’m ready to get a tune for it. Just sticking with an exhaust for right now
Speed limiter is 97
This was a good video. Glad I didn't spend the money on either a throttle body spacer or any CAI for my Gladiator. Thanks for the video!!
97 mph is cutoff on the gladiator.
Your content is great! Looking forward to more!
Really appreciate your support of the channel!!! 🙏🏼
Mmmmm, late to the party but I think you inadvertently caused false positives in your test. Ripping the CAI off without clearing the adaptive throttle curve, probably cause your car to dyno all over the place on your "OEM" run. If you cleared the adaptive curve and ran the tests at the same coolant temperatures between stock and aftermarket, you'd get better results. But hey, S&B debunked that themselves, assuming in response to your vid - dependent on whether you want to believe OEM results or not :). With these modern ECU's, you have to understand and factor in the full picture, including the impact of the crazy advances made with "learning software.
Put one in my JK - Zero sound difference. No dyno.
No difference? Damn, that’s disappointing.
@@kc510 maybe at very high rpm revs.
Are people running 91 octain? I make my gf in her jl. Would just be a waste to not dyno on 91 minimal. Shot in the foot
Imagine losing 17 hp wow, wish you redid the SB
They wouldn't they run the fans? Seems like it mimics real world effects....
Literally no point in running 91. The manual states 87 and says there’s been no benefit to running 91
9
Well I guess I’ll remove this from my cart
Stop trying to justify the S & B. It's a bunch of money for a loss in mpg, power and torque . That's a Gimmick product. Dynos , properly calibrated, Don't lie. They should rename the S&b To
B & S malarkey. No offense to you, just these companies that sell hype at a high price.
Weird that a billion dollar company with billions in R & D has there stuff figured out.
Wow it makes no sense
You just purchased a cheap intake; try something else
Cheap is a relative term. What do you consider cheap? S&B is considered one of the top of the line brands.
S&B is junk. Get your $ 378 refund back.😅😅😅
Outstanding info. Thanks
Thank you!!! 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼 Appreciate you watching and supporting the channel as well!!!