I think that limbus is a very different gacha game tbh; when you buy the battle pass, you don't even need to do gacha pulls, it's like you've directly purchased the game.
@@SheruMuko 340 is 17 weeks of MDH. By the end of S4 I had like 660 and I'm not playing that much, mostly new content, events and weekly dungeons. So, it's fine.
I am a new player and I have played Library of Ruina before. I was initially disappointed to hear project moon made Limbus a gacha but now, after playing the game itself, I was surprised to see how f2p friendly it is and some core units of teams are like 1yr old. Project moon's respect increased in my eyes after this.
I DON'T pay for anything in game, but PM, through SHEER peak and goodwill (of all things, dang) convinced me to buy the pass. Who would have thought that just making a good game would make gamers open their wallets 😂
@@eleuuuuuwell, because you got your money worth. I haven’t played other gacha games, but I’ve heard it’s like pouring money into a pit. Don’t know if that’s true though.
@eleuuuuu right? It also doesn't hurt that they said they use it to fund their other games and as someone who loves the universe they build since Lobotomy Corporation, I'll happily give them money for respecting me as a consumer
Limbus does have a power creep but I’d say it’s less to do with making units more powerful instead PM has just gotten a lot better at designing fun units for the game. If you look at the launch units it’s really clear that PM didn’t really know what to do with Limbus and designed a lot of units like they would work for Ruina (KK Hong Lu’s skill 3 boosting the amount of debuffs applied for example, if you haven’t played Ruina that’s a very common design philosophy for that game)
Yeah, "featurecreep" and gimmicks are the main difference. W Don, R heath (fell off due to chain, but still has the 4 fragile niche), R Ish, Nclair and so on still hold up really well
Correction: early Ruina. Ruina by the end of the game, it was mostly designed to just give you bigger numbers, the rest were either irrelevant or really niche gimmicks. Ratio of interesting launch IDs was still greater than it is for interesting lategame Ruina keypages.
Limbus has powerceep not in stats but in page and word counts. Yeah the one with more pages is usually the better id but than again the old one can still be used with no expense of your power.
This, need i remind people that lcorp survivor Faust can roll 26es on skill 3, and the only requirement is that she took no damage the previous turn. Or that g-gregor has the best healing support in the game. or rcorp heathcliff being the god of dps, and being the primary reason for the scaling system rebalance.
Been playing some gachas. Arknights would drop a literal god of a unit once in a while and then had to ramp up content cause stuff was too easy for people who pulled, cough Młynar cough Texas cough but you could still clear all with your brain and units you love. PGR separated units into teams so clearing end game content required cooperation of 3 units at once. But did not escape power creep as they started making more busted characters of the existing elements. Been playing WuWa for some time now and it's still quite new but it seems like so far you can play whatever, cause elemental teams are not required anymore so I am just investing into characters I find cool. Just make sure to have like 3 fully build teams to clear the currency content. And then there's Limbus. The only game I stuck with for over a year. Power creep? More like drip creep. The animations and outfits for new characters stomp the previously released ones. Even when they are from the same faction, like release W Don vs new W Outis. And the fact the game respects your time so much is just almost unbelievable. Buy the battle pass for peanuts once every 4 months (more or less) and bam, you bought the game. Cause the only characters you have to roll for are during the limited event that we like to call Walpipi. Featured characters there are indeed powerful but they are usually just an addition to the status effect team. Sometimes they are the saviour of said team, like Burn who lacked a lot of fire power, pun intended, and got saved by Walpipi Outis and Walpipi Sinclair and now is very fun to run. I think the biggest win for Limbus is that the new "characters" are the same 12 sinners just in different timelines so it's more like getting skins with benefits. You don't need to cast away your favorite character. Just dress him up differently and voila. You can still play with your Rodion or Faust or Hong Lu. They jsut look different and may be more suitable to a different team. I adore this concept.
Limbus right now i would say does have a bit of powercreep, specially with old content and IDs that have been outclassed long ago, but limbus does have an answer to this issue, that being new Upties. Last time Uptie IV was introduced it basically like buffed the old IDs and gave very minor and subtle changes to newer IDs and content of that time. For example it turned what was arguably the worst ID of the game, Warp mersault, into a viable option, and for teams, made IDs that where being left behind like Reindeer Ishmael much better, and made Blade lineage yisang be an actual good ID till this day. While this happened, the already strong units of that time like chef Ryoshu, or Ncorp Sinclair got very subtle and small changes to ensure that the other IDs would be able to catch up to them somewhat. And i suspect that such a phenomena would repeat itself in due time as limbus releases more content, eventually dropping an Uptie V with that very same objective of making old IDs be able to catch up again with newer content. And i'd say the cost wouldnt necessarily be the same one as before, so maybe pm does get more creative rather than just putting a higher cost of thread and shards again for the new upties, after all they recently introduced a selection menu of different uptie currencies! doubt they'd introduce that without an idea already in mind for it.
They should honestly go back to rebalance some of those launch IDs. Liu Gregor is booty butt asscheeks even at uptie 4, so's the whole zwei squad before Faust, etc etc. I also hope they consider making some different kind of upgrade outside of uptying because the resource cost is getting fucking ridiculous lmao.
@@eeroke12 The rebalance of old IDs going by their history in applying this change before will just be Uptie 5(like how i said in the comment that they upgraded several old IDs going by Uptie 4), and as for a different kind of upgrade its hard to say what else they could even add, what i see be more reasonable is just adding more ways for one to Uptie something or adding better methods for such uptying IDs and content.
It's also notable that even this video's main example of Limbus' version of powercreep (Solemn Yi Sang vs. Spicebush Yi Sang) is... more of a lateral move? Sinking Deluge is still unparalleled for single bursts of damage, and has no replacement, while native access to AoE skills is extremely strong. Meanwhile Solemn Lament's Butterflies are better at sustained damage across many turns and his base skill ranges are consistently better. This is before mentioning (as you rightly did) the limited access window for Walpurgisnacht IDs. Even when Limbus has an ID that gets into the starting range of power creep, it's still more of a sidegrade / debatable option, and I appreciate that a lot.
@@daboss4318 Zwei Sinclair wasn't powercrept because it was ALWAYS bad. I mean myself and a few others I know used base SInclair more than any of his Season 1 IDs during Season 1 (before N Corp Sinclair released because if we wanna talk power Creep this ID swept every Sinclair ID until Cinq/Dawn Office IDs released) because his base ID was overall generally his best ID at the time. There wasn't really enough IDs across all the Sinners to make full team builds for Bleed, Poise, Rupture, etc of the many team comps so you had to rely mostly just on what was generally good all around. The only thing Zwei Sinclair had going for it was the high rolling Skill 3 but honestly you could say the same about Blade Lineage Sinclair when it comes to that positive. "But he got a 2nd Zwei ID, it's obvious power creep" They have some different mechanics, they really only share a name/association, rarity rating, and tremor. But one is essentially a story ID which we see every new chapter a Sinner gets an ID based off one of the characters they interact with in said chapter, whether it be a villain we see for 1 encounter or a character we interact with across multiple nodes during the entire chapter. One of the things that wasn't mentioned in the video is how Limbus also has ways of making IDs better with Uptie. Back when they introduced uptie level 4 it fixed quite a few Old IDs that just didn't do well (Like W Corp Meursault) but other IDs (Like R Corp Heath) benefitted very little but in those cases most were already incredibly good and didn't need much from Uptie 4. When we get (and will probably get another one sooner or later) a new Uptie Level previously 'bad' IDs might become viable again in some builds. So in my opinion Limbus Company does have a good way of bringing Old IDs back into viability with the Uptie system we just have to wait for them to add new levels and see how well they fit into the current builds/meta.
@@TheBucketBrigade Umm. thats a bit too much text. Yes uptie 4 was a good precedent however it didnt truly solve the issue - most top ids from launch are still top, and most horrible are still horrible, or gimmicky at best. I still never seen W sault and never played him despite having all charge ids in the game, i thought that kuro rodyas counter S3 was promising, but they didnt fix her poise. The only id they trully fixed with uptie 4 is R ishmael, which is not that big of a result. Uptie 4 is great idea with average execution and without any continuation (yet). Game is still relatively new, so we dont know how PM will fare.
Project moon mentioned in a video about Project Mo- WAIT A MINUTE HOLY SHIT DID I JUST MENTION PROJECT MOON A POPULAR SOUTH KOREA GAME STUDIO WHAT RELEASED HIT GAME LIMBUS COMPANY?!
What I like about Limbus Company is that it doesn't feel like something that forces players on pulling or buying new IDs, along with its Battle Pass which is rewarding despite getting the free stuff only. It doesn't go on psychological manipulation where it makes players try so much just because a new ID came out. Take Wild Hunt Heathcliff for example in the past few weeks. He is a powerful ID that's for sure, but that doesn't mean if you don't have it, doesn't mean you can't win much of the battles. I have my Multicrack Heathcliff and it feels like a powerful starter and it doesn't punish me much for using a tier 2 ID. It also have the same case as Pequod Yi Sang despite being at tier 2 ID, he does damage almost the same as S3 of Solemn Lament Yi Sang. All I can say here is it depends on players' playstyle they prefer (either damage or clash potential) and its a good thing for those who wants to experiment.
Limbus is the only game where I'll happily shell out for the BP to support the green marker man and his team. Coincidentally it's also the only gacha where I own around 90% of all units that have been released since day one.
I'd say that limbus does has powercreep. But it is not that drastic as in a lot of other cases. Even some of the older units can work really well in some setups (I love running Seven Ryoshu and Lob corp remnant Faust from time to time, but someone like KK Hong Lu, Shi Ish and Heath, N Heath, Lccb Ish and some others often work really good) but at the same time, some just don't have a niche (Zwei Sinclair (old one) and Rodya, KK Rodya, etc). And newer 2 stars can also be really fun, like Pequod Yi Sang and Ring Outis. It is the type of powercreep where you can feel it, but you can also ignore it, and you won't lose much, especially since almost all of the content is easy, even refraction railways aren't that hard. I am a sinner, and I play 3 hoyoverse gachas: genshin, honkai starrail and zenless zone zero, and they are... Well they are complicated. Genshin is an open world game, and everything is buolt around a team, like in limbus, so almost every unit has a niche that can even clear the gardest content with enough investment, hsr is the closest in powercreep's feel with limbus, you still can consider older units for a specific team centered about a dmg type you need, tho sustain is powercreeping a bit too hard for my liking (and I don't wanna go in depth about Acheron, Firefly and Feixiao now, cuz I am honestly not even that active about the kits now, I mistly play for the story and only for the story), and zzz could potentially be the worst scale of powercreep, but the game is too new to think about it
@@jasonmagnes4467 firstly, what is a classic tremor setup. Second, I didn't said remnant Faust is bad. On the contrary, I like her. So, what are you on about is a better question
ngl i feel like KK Rodya has a (very fragile) niche as the only slightly passable Rodya ID that can apply bleed for Sanguine Desire EGO Passive. Sure, it's very situational, but that IS 20 bleed potancy on S3 and 10 bleed potency on S2. Completely outclassed the moment she gets a proper bleed ID, but for now it is solid.
@@quinnmaster504 well, ye, you got the point. And, like, it's kinda dumb that Rodya has 3 bleed ids and none of them are good. Someone even argued that Base Rodya might be the best bleed id for Rodya, since she does has the potential to inflict a lot of it. But ye. KK is probably for now better. But I ain't using her with my Ring Yi Sang team, KK Ryoshu is better for more debuffs (I would have used Lob Ego Ryoshu IF I HAD ONE, 80 PULLS AND ONLY 1 TINGTANG HONG LU(
Another interesting thing: Bad ids can have a second chance at redemption if they have a good support passive. The first Zwei sinclair is horrid but he has an incredible passive. Many of the base sinners also have really good passives.
2:59 if i remember correctly, full 5 stage clear gives you 50 "0", which became 225 with weekly reward(+4 with weekky challenge). So if you would farm only weekly you would get 23 without bp, and 69(nice) with bp, so 3 times to get around 200 crates. I just dont understand where comes that number(22-23 runs)
They're so generous that i actually feel bad about how unsuccessful their revenue compare to other gacha tbh. But it's a very thin line between sacrifcing your revenue for a better game or sacrifice your gameplay for your revenue and make a powercreep character every single update (im looking at you HSR, my poor dan heng IL and Jing liu is literally climbing down the tier list every single update)
Limbus powercreep is more of a gimmick creep as most of the new ids that comes with a new gimmick tends to either be a hit or a miss but if they do hit then new ids with identical gimmicks tend to have a kit with a better sense of direction, just like how Coin power from meeting a certain amount of status or meeting the condition wasnt that used often back then and now most new IDs tend to use this gimmick to this day, its also why the new rupture ids are bringing in the new rupture gimmick all though theyre not crazy in terms of rupture yet but later on the gimmick gets fleshed out and becomes better in general. All though powercreep only happens when old gimmicks are just outclassed to the new gimmicks like 7Outis and the new rupture ids or Rhino Meursault who is about to be powercrept in use soon once the new Bleed focused identities drop
Newer unit still fuck over old stage like ricardo a huge fucking lot and hard stage lkke ricardo is now not even a semi problem.Its still really hard to handle powercreep and the only gacha ive seen it done well is some stage in the battle cats
what's funnier is that you CAN play the entire game on just base IDs if you're well-versed in the game's mechanics not only that, but limbus company is actually very whale-unfriendly, cause f2p players can pretty easily keep up even if you spend real money on the game, and afaik you can't pay your way through actually levelling up and uptying the IDs you get, you need to grind like everyone else tho grind is also not necessary to enjoy the game imo, you don't have to constantly stay on top of everything
While some of the newer characters are indeed really good in Limbus, we still have top tier units from the start or a little after. Look at W Don and Ryoshu, R Corp Heathcliff, and N Corp Sinclair. Hell, even characters like Harpoonercliff, Blade Meursault, and Molar Ishmael, who are also amazing, and are some of the middle releases. Yeah, Regret Faust and Red Eyes and Penitence Ryoshu are consideref probably the best Identities to use on them, and Regret Meursault being basically a requirement to play any other Meursault ID, they're not needed (except Regret Meursault, get the ego, it's genuinely amazing to have).
Butterflies gives the better versatility, and butter sang is overall a better unit by himself But spicebush still has that nuke that has both upsides and downsides
Uptie 5, when that comes online the powercreep will be reset to an extent. Seriously, Limbus Company built there game to be able to reset their powercreep to an extent, it's so amazing.
Limbus is a really generous gacha, but the points you made don’t really talk about the issue of powercreep. Powercreep relates to the status of the units that come before another big unit in their archetype, but your justification was that limbus lets you shard sinners, which isn’t the point. Regardless of getting the new unit by pulling or sharding, powercreep will exist when x old unit gets replaced. I will say, Limbus has a bit more lenient powercreep, as most of the old options take a while to fade since they still have their benefits, but it definitely still exists and I don’t believe its slow progression has been anything groundbreaking, just very generous and well thought out.
I actually play limbus just because of how f2p it is, otherwise if it was like genshin i wouldnt have been that much invested in it, or even at all. (BTW FUCK YEAH MILKSHAKEMAN USED HIS VOICE AGAIN INSTEAD OF AN AI)
Something interesting to keep in mind is that Limbus company also kinda has anti-power creep, at least when you take a look at the launch ids. While most new ids will always consistently have more text than a launch id, launch id's had some wacky shit. Like, lobotomy corp remnant faust with her 22-26 rolling skill 3 on a two star, something that has not come back. or the fact that w corp don and rabbit heathcliff are still the only ids with 5 coin skills with the slight exception of pequod yisang's skill 2, and that one's highly conditional. granted, this early wackiness also often went in the other direction and made really terrible ids, but it's interesting to look at the niche's that just have not come back since launch
Final Fantasy Dissidia Opera Omnia (yes that's a real name) was also pretty cool in terms of powercreep, they'd basically give older characters mini-reworks to be able to keep up with newer characters if they featured in whatever event the new character came out in, no gacha or grinding required (unless that rework required a weapon tier that character previously didn't have but that was equivalent to opening a 00 ID on targeted extraction) They we're slowly and steadily making most characters pretty comparable, heck even some non-updated characters still had use cases. Until they decided to do a massive 180 and introduce a new mechanic and tier of weapon that made every character practically useless unless they were reworked with said mechanic in mind and it was a MASSIVE resource sink unless you bought the highest tier of monthly pass that coincidentally released with the update...
The best mistakes I've ever made while playing the game were: -Starting LBC with a new account from scratch because I didn't understand combat mechanics. -Making said account 2 days before Solemn Lament Walpurgisnacht ended. - 10x rolling S.L Yi Sang first try (Remember, I had yet to gain any idea what anything was in this game) - Used the event's MASSIVE xp tickets ONLY on that Yi Sang (instant lvl 38, he's still at that level, lol) - may or may not have first upgraded Zwei South Sinclai and Rosespanner Mersault (and thought they were 'good') Yi sang carried me everywhere, never saw him lose a clash, never saw him under 45 sp either.
In limbus i pull only on wallurgis banner or baners with 2 00 , get them in 10 pull and stop, everything else i shard, saved up 37k lunacy so far, i ve bought 7$ mounthly lunacy pack about 6 times, and 33$ for season 2, 3 and 4 BP (current bp bought with paid lunacy from mountly pack), 75$ total for 1.5 year of playing. I am only missing some egos from first bp, and some release ids which i don't care about (sorry 7 outis). So if you dedicate your time and buy battle pass twice a year, you can get anything new that comes out. Very generous for a gacha don't you think?
Hi hi! Nice video, but I honestly felt like the reasoning you gave to justify "limbus is handling powercreep well' is actually more suitable for "Limbus is handling FOMO really well" Think about it, newer units are powercreeping older ones at a frightening rate, and yet players aren't compelled to pull every single one of them, because they can casually farm and claim them whenever they feel like it. This has nothing to do with the actual powecreep of units, which I humbly think is worse in lim com compared to many others
I once saw a clip where this Vtuber had two green chains (she been getting Pierre/Jack announcers), she was surprise and was like, "watch it be two Pierre/Jack xD". It ended up being two Pierre/Jack 🤣
Other gacha games have you by the balls if you ever want to use money, its like on the hundreds for a character. Nexon is ass in this, in BA its like $300 for a spark, in limbus you just use 10 dollars and you expect pretty much to dispense every ego and id for the season, which are not even required to do hard content. In BA? Good look trying to even do insane or torment, lol lmao.
I think the major problem with powercreep lie on the PVP side more than PVE. At least in PVE u can use any chars, but in PVP if u don't have the meta chars than too bad for u, prepare to get rekt by others player.
Sharding characters is not actually something innovative, if you played gacha games for some time now you know that "Sharding" is a concept from about 10 YEARS AGO. It basically executes exactly how Limbus does it, you can use shards to get a character, or in this case an Identity, and then in the future use more shards to further upgrade your characters. It's just that nowadays the big greedy corpos want you to think that you gotta grind irL to pay for the grind you were initially meant to do in-game. Absolutely Horrific.
but are those examples of yours as easy as limbus sharding? was there even something to that level? i have been wasting my time with gachas for a long time, and neven seen something that high of a quality that is that f2p friendly
![The Strongest IDs [Limbus Company]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qjBeb1jy4E4/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Strongest IDs [Limbus Company]](/img/tr.png)
I think that limbus is a very different gacha game tbh; when you buy the battle pass, you don't even need to do gacha pulls, it's like you've directly purchased the game.
Battle Pass is just your monthly sub to the game XD
Limbus company does gacha right because pjm doesnt know how to do gacha
@@B.a.z.z796at least they’re getting paid
Not monthly, more of seasonal (3-4 months)
@B.a.z.z796 depends on what type of gacha we are talking about though
the new gens (hoyo gacha as a whole) or the og gacha
Instead of powercreep limbus has coolnesscreep
Animationcreep, wordcountscreep, dripcreep, artcreep, hypecreep, pagescreep,..
Wild Hunt Heath didn't just powercreep he also dripcreeped everyone
look at erlcliffs sprite next to any other character and you’ll see how much effort they put into it to make it better than anything else
Even the latest identity, Cinq West Meursalt looks, feels and acts wildly different from most earlier identities, even from just Season 3
@@doneedanickname3522compare his skill 1 to K-corp hong lu skill 1
I saw someone at Limbus Pass level 7000 on the reddit. I think that means Jihoon owes them money now 😂
What the actual…
I thought mine of 340 was impressive.
Send my regards and my respects.
@@SheruMuko 340 is 17 weeks of MDH. By the end of S4 I had like 660 and I'm not playing that much, mostly new content, events and weekly dungeons. So, it's fine.
@@SheruMuko my end of season 4 BP lv was around 1755
I'm pretty sure that person is NITAMOG00I , a tryhard japanese
@@SheruMuko i ended previous battle pass at Level 1778 so ...
I am a new player and I have played Library of Ruina before. I was initially disappointed to hear project moon made Limbus a gacha but now, after playing the game itself, I was surprised to see how f2p friendly it is and some core units of teams are like 1yr old. Project moon's respect increased in my eyes after this.
I remember reading a review that was "Project moon decided they wanted to make a gacha game and failed and accidentally made a real game instead"
Project moon dosent know how to make a gatcha, that is why they did a good game instead
I DON'T pay for anything in game, but PM, through SHEER peak and goodwill (of all things, dang) convinced me to buy the pass.
Who would have thought that just making a good game would make gamers open their wallets 😂
@@eleuuuuuwell, because you got your money worth. I haven’t played other gacha games, but I’ve heard it’s like pouring money into a pit. Don’t know if that’s true though.
@eleuuuuu right? It also doesn't hurt that they said they use it to fund their other games and as someone who loves the universe they build since Lobotomy Corporation, I'll happily give them money for respecting me as a consumer
Limbus does have a power creep but I’d say it’s less to do with making units more powerful instead PM has just gotten a lot better at designing fun units for the game. If you look at the launch units it’s really clear that PM didn’t really know what to do with Limbus and designed a lot of units like they would work for Ruina (KK Hong Lu’s skill 3 boosting the amount of debuffs applied for example, if you haven’t played Ruina that’s a very common design philosophy for that game)
Yeah, "featurecreep" and gimmicks are the main difference. W Don, R heath (fell off due to chain, but still has the 4 fragile niche), R Ish, Nclair and so on still hold up really well
limbus powercreep is only about season 1 ids, because they are actual mess
But well people said theres will be solution to this soon
Correction: early Ruina. Ruina by the end of the game, it was mostly designed to just give you bigger numbers, the rest were either irrelevant or really niche gimmicks. Ratio of interesting launch IDs was still greater than it is for interesting lategame Ruina keypages.
I lost my Catherine to powercreep...
Who?
Your what?
damn bro :'(, who is that again?
can you tell me who is that?
Who?
Limbus has powerceep not in stats but in page and word counts. Yeah the one with more pages is usually the better id but than again the old one can still be used with no expense of your power.
This, need i remind people that lcorp survivor Faust can roll 26es on skill 3, and the only requirement is that she took no damage the previous turn. Or that g-gregor has the best healing support in the game. or rcorp heathcliff being the god of dps, and being the primary reason for the scaling system rebalance.
Been playing some gachas. Arknights would drop a literal god of a unit once in a while and then had to ramp up content cause stuff was too easy for people who pulled, cough Młynar cough Texas cough but you could still clear all with your brain and units you love.
PGR separated units into teams so clearing end game content required cooperation of 3 units at once. But did not escape power creep as they started making more busted characters of the existing elements.
Been playing WuWa for some time now and it's still quite new but it seems like so far you can play whatever, cause elemental teams are not required anymore so I am just investing into characters I find cool. Just make sure to have like 3 fully build teams to clear the currency content.
And then there's Limbus. The only game I stuck with for over a year. Power creep? More like drip creep. The animations and outfits for new characters stomp the previously released ones. Even when they are from the same faction, like release W Don vs new W Outis. And the fact the game respects your time so much is just almost unbelievable.
Buy the battle pass for peanuts once every 4 months (more or less) and bam, you bought the game. Cause the only characters you have to roll for are during the limited event that we like to call Walpipi. Featured characters there are indeed powerful but they are usually just an addition to the status effect team. Sometimes they are the saviour of said team, like Burn who lacked a lot of fire power, pun intended, and got saved by Walpipi Outis and Walpipi Sinclair and now is very fun to run.
I think the biggest win for Limbus is that the new "characters" are the same 12 sinners just in different timelines so it's more like getting skins with benefits. You don't need to cast away your favorite character. Just dress him up differently and voila. You can still play with your Rodion or Faust or Hong Lu. They jsut look different and may be more suitable to a different team.
I adore this concept.
Glory to limbus company
Glory to limmmbus company
The only gacha i ever plan on playing
Glory to Kim Jihoon
ALL FUCKIN HEL TO PROJECT MOON!!!!!!!!!
Limbus right now i would say does have a bit of powercreep, specially with old content and IDs that have been outclassed long ago, but limbus does have an answer to this issue, that being new Upties.
Last time Uptie IV was introduced it basically like buffed the old IDs and gave very minor and subtle changes to newer IDs and content of that time. For example it turned what was arguably the worst ID of the game, Warp mersault, into a viable option, and for teams, made IDs that where being left behind like Reindeer Ishmael much better, and made Blade lineage yisang be an actual good ID till this day. While this happened, the already strong units of that time like chef Ryoshu, or Ncorp Sinclair got very subtle and small changes to ensure that the other IDs would be able to catch up to them somewhat.
And i suspect that such a phenomena would repeat itself in due time as limbus releases more content, eventually dropping an Uptie V with that very same objective of making old IDs be able to catch up again with newer content. And i'd say the cost wouldnt necessarily be the same one as before, so maybe pm does get more creative rather than just putting a higher cost of thread and shards again for the new upties, after all they recently introduced a selection menu of different uptie currencies! doubt they'd introduce that without an idea already in mind for it.
They should honestly go back to rebalance some of those launch IDs. Liu Gregor is booty butt asscheeks even at uptie 4, so's the whole zwei squad before Faust, etc etc. I also hope they consider making some different kind of upgrade outside of uptying because the resource cost is getting fucking ridiculous lmao.
@@eeroke12 The rebalance of old IDs going by their history in applying this change before will just be Uptie 5(like how i said in the comment that they upgraded several old IDs going by Uptie 4), and as for a different kind of upgrade its hard to say what else they could even add, what i see be more reasonable is just adding more ways for one to Uptie something or adding better methods for such uptying IDs and content.
It's also notable that even this video's main example of Limbus' version of powercreep (Solemn Yi Sang vs. Spicebush Yi Sang) is... more of a lateral move? Sinking Deluge is still unparalleled for single bursts of damage, and has no replacement, while native access to AoE skills is extremely strong. Meanwhile Solemn Lament's Butterflies are better at sustained damage across many turns and his base skill ranges are consistently better. This is before mentioning (as you rightly did) the limited access window for Walpurgisnacht IDs. Even when Limbus has an ID that gets into the starting range of power creep, it's still more of a sidegrade / debatable option, and I appreciate that a lot.
Zwei Sinclair...
@@daboss4318 Zwei Sinclair wasn't powercrept because it was ALWAYS bad. I mean myself and a few others I know used base SInclair more than any of his Season 1 IDs during Season 1 (before N Corp Sinclair released because if we wanna talk power Creep this ID swept every Sinclair ID until Cinq/Dawn Office IDs released) because his base ID was overall generally his best ID at the time. There wasn't really enough IDs across all the Sinners to make full team builds for Bleed, Poise, Rupture, etc of the many team comps so you had to rely mostly just on what was generally good all around. The only thing Zwei Sinclair had going for it was the high rolling Skill 3 but honestly you could say the same about Blade Lineage Sinclair when it comes to that positive.
"But he got a 2nd Zwei ID, it's obvious power creep" They have some different mechanics, they really only share a name/association, rarity rating, and tremor. But one is essentially a story ID which we see every new chapter a Sinner gets an ID based off one of the characters they interact with in said chapter, whether it be a villain we see for 1 encounter or a character we interact with across multiple nodes during the entire chapter.
One of the things that wasn't mentioned in the video is how Limbus also has ways of making IDs better with Uptie. Back when they introduced uptie level 4 it fixed quite a few Old IDs that just didn't do well (Like W Corp Meursault) but other IDs (Like R Corp Heath) benefitted very little but in those cases most were already incredibly good and didn't need much from Uptie 4. When we get (and will probably get another one sooner or later) a new Uptie Level previously 'bad' IDs might become viable again in some builds. So in my opinion Limbus Company does have a good way of bringing Old IDs back into viability with the Uptie system we just have to wait for them to add new levels and see how well they fit into the current builds/meta.
@@TheBucketBrigade Umm. thats a bit too much text. Yes uptie 4 was a good precedent however it didnt truly solve the issue - most top ids from launch are still top, and most horrible are still horrible, or gimmicky at best.
I still never seen W sault and never played him despite having all charge ids in the game, i thought that kuro rodyas counter S3 was promising, but they didnt fix her poise. The only id they trully fixed with uptie 4 is R ishmael, which is not that big of a result.
Uptie 4 is great idea with average execution and without any continuation (yet). Game is still relatively new, so we dont know how PM will fare.
@@daboss4318 you have BL don for poise issues, and captmael
@@daboss4318 OG Zwei Sinclair was a taxonomic mistake and might not actually be an identity at all. :V
Project Moon mentioned!
Glory to KimJihoon
Project moon mentioned in a video about Project Mo- WAIT A MINUTE HOLY SHIT DID I JUST MENTION PROJECT MOON A POPULAR SOUTH KOREA GAME STUDIO WHAT RELEASED HIT GAME LIMBUS COMPANY?!
What I like about Limbus Company is that it doesn't feel like something that forces players on pulling or buying new IDs, along with its Battle Pass which is rewarding despite getting the free stuff only. It doesn't go on psychological manipulation where it makes players try so much just because a new ID came out. Take Wild Hunt Heathcliff for example in the past few weeks. He is a powerful ID that's for sure, but that doesn't mean if you don't have it, doesn't mean you can't win much of the battles. I have my Multicrack Heathcliff and it feels like a powerful starter and it doesn't punish me much for using a tier 2 ID. It also have the same case as Pequod Yi Sang despite being at tier 2 ID, he does damage almost the same as S3 of Solemn Lament Yi Sang. All I can say here is it depends on players' playstyle they prefer (either damage or clash potential) and its a good thing for those who wants to experiment.
Arknights mentioned! Hivemind, assemble!
🎶
*BROKEN SUN, SHINE A LIGHT ON EVERYONE*
*BROKEN SUN, YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE* 🎶
Limbus is the only game where I'll happily shell out for the BP to support the green marker man and his team. Coincidentally it's also the only gacha where I own around 90% of all units that have been released since day one.
Only 90%? You avoid pulling on walpurgis so you can redeem them later on with boxes?
@@escopeteroce Nah I just haven't bothered sharding some s1 IDs since I'll get them from gacha eventually.
I'd say that limbus does has powercreep. But it is not that drastic as in a lot of other cases. Even some of the older units can work really well in some setups (I love running Seven Ryoshu and Lob corp remnant Faust from time to time, but someone like KK Hong Lu, Shi Ish and Heath, N Heath, Lccb Ish and some others often work really good) but at the same time, some just don't have a niche (Zwei Sinclair (old one) and Rodya, KK Rodya, etc). And newer 2 stars can also be really fun, like Pequod Yi Sang and Ring Outis. It is the type of powercreep where you can feel it, but you can also ignore it, and you won't lose much, especially since almost all of the content is easy, even refraction railways aren't that hard. I am a sinner, and I play 3 hoyoverse gachas: genshin, honkai starrail and zenless zone zero, and they are... Well they are complicated. Genshin is an open world game, and everything is buolt around a team, like in limbus, so almost every unit has a niche that can even clear the gardest content with enough investment, hsr is the closest in powercreep's feel with limbus, you still can consider older units for a specific team centered about a dmg type you need, tho sustain is powercreeping a bit too hard for my liking (and I don't wanna go in depth about Acheron, Firefly and Feixiao now, cuz I am honestly not even that active about the kits now, I mistly play for the story and only for the story), and zzz could potentially be the worst scale of powercreep, but the game is too new to think about it
Remnant Faust is still hella good in a classic tremor team, wth are you on about
@@jasonmagnes4467 firstly, what is a classic tremor setup. Second, I didn't said remnant Faust is bad. On the contrary, I like her. So, what are you on about is a better question
@@FriendOfHatkid right i missread, my bad 😔
ngl i feel like KK Rodya has a (very fragile) niche as the only slightly passable Rodya ID that can apply bleed for Sanguine Desire EGO Passive. Sure, it's very situational, but that IS 20 bleed potancy on S3 and 10 bleed potency on S2. Completely outclassed the moment she gets a proper bleed ID, but for now it is solid.
@@quinnmaster504 well, ye, you got the point. And, like, it's kinda dumb that Rodya has 3 bleed ids and none of them are good. Someone even argued that Base Rodya might be the best bleed id for Rodya, since she does has the potential to inflict a lot of it. But ye. KK is probably for now better. But I ain't using her with my Ring Yi Sang team, KK Ryoshu is better for more debuffs (I would have used Lob Ego Ryoshu IF I HAD ONE, 80 PULLS AND ONLY 1 TINGTANG HONG LU(
Another interesting thing: Bad ids can have a second chance at redemption if they have a good support passive.
The first Zwei sinclair is horrid but he has an incredible passive.
Many of the base sinners also have really good passives.
The odds of me pulling cool units back to back with Limbus Company was 80% compared to other gacha games
2:59 if i remember correctly, full 5 stage clear gives you 50 "0", which became 225 with weekly reward(+4 with weekky challenge). So if you would farm only weekly you would get 23 without bp, and 69(nice) with bp, so 3 times to get around 200 crates. I just dont understand where comes that number(22-23 runs)
@@ntern2162i didn't take the weekly bonus into account. Thanks for reminding me 👍
They're so generous that i actually feel bad about how unsuccessful their revenue compare to other gacha tbh. But it's a very thin line between sacrifcing your revenue for a better game or sacrifice your gameplay for your revenue and make a powercreep character every single update (im looking at you HSR, my poor dan heng IL and Jing liu is literally climbing down the tier list every single update)
Glory to limbus company and project moon
playing limbus company is pretty refreshing for a gacha and the story is like im reading a manhwa
Wake up Babe, new MilkshakeMann upload! (i love your content ahhhhhh)
First time a gacha game has made me pull genuinely drippy units and not have to worry where they slot in the metagame
Limbus powercreep is more of a gimmick creep as most of the new ids that comes with a new gimmick tends to either be a hit or a miss but if they do hit then new ids with identical gimmicks tend to have a kit with a better sense of direction, just like how Coin power from meeting a certain amount of status or meeting the condition wasnt that used often back then and now most new IDs tend to use this gimmick to this day, its also why the new rupture ids are bringing in the new rupture gimmick all though theyre not crazy in terms of rupture yet but later on the gimmick gets fleshed out and becomes better in general.
All though powercreep only happens when old gimmicks are just outclassed to the new gimmicks like 7Outis and the new rupture ids or Rhino Meursault who is about to be powercrept in use soon once the new Bleed focused identities drop
Newer unit still fuck over old stage like ricardo a huge fucking lot and hard stage lkke ricardo is now not even a semi problem.Its still really hard to handle powercreep and the only gacha ive seen it done well is some stage in the battle cats
Yea i love that limbus dont have that power creep xD
what's funnier is that you CAN play the entire game on just base IDs if you're well-versed in the game's mechanics
not only that, but limbus company is actually very whale-unfriendly, cause f2p players can pretty easily keep up even if you spend real money on the game, and afaik you can't pay your way through actually levelling up and uptying the IDs you get, you need to grind like everyone else
tho grind is also not necessary to enjoy the game imo, you don't have to constantly stay on top of everything
You can very easily whale to get materials and thread and shit but it's just not worth it compared to swiping for pulls straight up luhmeow
This reminds of Arknights cause two of the most broken characters will soon be out and just powercrept two classes cause of their skills.
While some of the newer characters are indeed really good in Limbus, we still have top tier units from the start or a little after. Look at W Don and Ryoshu, R Corp Heathcliff, and N Corp Sinclair. Hell, even characters like Harpoonercliff, Blade Meursault, and Molar Ishmael, who are also amazing, and are some of the middle releases. Yeah, Regret Faust and Red Eyes and Penitence Ryoshu are consideref probably the best Identities to use on them, and Regret Meursault being basically a requirement to play any other Meursault ID, they're not needed (except Regret Meursault, get the ego, it's genuinely amazing to have).
0:12 rip spicebush
once uptie 5 is out, the land will become fertile once more
I'll always be a sinking deluge bro
5.4k gloom damage my beloved
Butterfly is only good outside of MD. In mirror dungeon U still want to run BUSHSANG by a long shot
Butterflies gives the better versatility, and butter sang is overall a better unit by himself
But spicebush still has that nuke that has both upsides and downsides
Lament Sang for making team do damage.
Spicebush for making enemy explode by 12000 gloom damage
Truly the goat of all gacha games
I love my spaghetti code game
Uptie 5, when that comes online the powercreep will be reset to an extent.
Seriously, Limbus Company built there game to be able to reset their powercreep to an extent, it's so amazing.
Limbus is a really generous gacha, but the points you made don’t really talk about the issue of powercreep. Powercreep relates to the status of the units that come before another big unit in their archetype, but your justification was that limbus lets you shard sinners, which isn’t the point. Regardless of getting the new unit by pulling or sharding, powercreep will exist when x old unit gets replaced. I will say, Limbus has a bit more lenient powercreep, as most of the old options take a while to fade since they still have their benefits, but it definitely still exists and I don’t believe its slow progression has been anything groundbreaking, just very generous and well thought out.
I actually play limbus just because of how f2p it is, otherwise if it was like genshin i wouldnt have been that much invested in it, or even at all. (BTW FUCK YEAH MILKSHAKEMAN USED HIS VOICE AGAIN INSTEAD OF AN AI)
Something interesting to keep in mind is that Limbus company also kinda has anti-power creep, at least when you take a look at the launch ids. While most new ids will always consistently have more text than a launch id, launch id's had some wacky shit. Like, lobotomy corp remnant faust with her 22-26 rolling skill 3 on a two star, something that has not come back. or the fact that w corp don and rabbit heathcliff are still the only ids with 5 coin skills with the slight exception of pequod yisang's skill 2, and that one's highly conditional. granted, this early wackiness also often went in the other direction and made really terrible ids, but it's interesting to look at the niche's that just have not come back since launch
Rabbit Heathcliff and Remnant Faust are outliers. In most cases you'll have something like Liu Gregor smileyface.
Final Fantasy Dissidia Opera Omnia (yes that's a real name) was also pretty cool in terms of powercreep, they'd basically give older characters mini-reworks to be able to keep up with newer characters if they featured in whatever event the new character came out in, no gacha or grinding required (unless that rework required a weapon tier that character previously didn't have but that was equivalent to opening a 00 ID on targeted extraction)
They we're slowly and steadily making most characters pretty comparable, heck even some non-updated characters still had use cases.
Until they decided to do a massive 180 and introduce a new mechanic and tier of weapon that made every character practically useless unless they were reworked with said mechanic in mind and it was a MASSIVE resource sink unless you bought the highest tier of monthly pass that coincidentally released with the update...
The best mistakes I've ever made while playing the game were:
-Starting LBC with a new account from scratch because I didn't understand combat mechanics.
-Making said account 2 days before Solemn Lament Walpurgisnacht ended.
- 10x rolling S.L Yi Sang first try (Remember, I had yet to gain any idea what anything was in this game)
- Used the event's MASSIVE xp tickets ONLY on that Yi Sang (instant lvl 38, he's still at that level, lol)
- may or may not have first upgraded Zwei South Sinclai and Rosespanner Mersault (and thought they were 'good')
Yi sang carried me everywhere, never saw him lose a clash, never saw him under 45 sp either.
Thank you for your content, Mr. MilkshakeMann
In limbus i pull only on wallurgis banner or baners with 2 00 , get them in 10 pull and stop, everything else i shard, saved up 37k lunacy so far, i ve bought 7$ mounthly lunacy pack about 6 times, and 33$ for season 2, 3 and 4 BP (current bp bought with paid lunacy from mountly pack), 75$ total for 1.5 year of playing. I am only missing some egos from first bp, and some release ids which i don't care about (sorry 7 outis). So if you dedicate your time and buy battle pass twice a year, you can get anything new that comes out. Very generous for a gacha don't you think?
oh no! its the smiling french man
0:05 not even 5 seconds into the video and i see the word “wuthering”
Hi hi!
Nice video, but I honestly felt like the reasoning you gave to justify "limbus is handling powercreep well' is actually more suitable for "Limbus is handling FOMO really well"
Think about it, newer units are powercreeping older ones at a frightening rate, and yet players aren't compelled to pull every single one of them, because they can casually farm and claim them whenever they feel like it. This has nothing to do with the actual powecreep of units, which I humbly think is worse in lim com compared to many others
Three. Pierre/Jack Announcers. In. A. Row. I had to hit pity to finally get Hod 😭
Walpurgisnacht is where my lunacy goes to die...
Well you are lucky, I ROLLED 3 HOD ANNOUNCERS!!!!!! I. DONT. WANT. HOD.
isnt announcers take the rates of 00 ids?
I once saw a clip where this Vtuber had two green chains (she been getting Pierre/Jack announcers), she was surprise and was like, "watch it be two Pierre/Jack xD". It ended up being two Pierre/Jack 🤣
Limbus just has it's cult following, so powercreep isn't needed.
So true bestie
Other gacha games have you by the balls if you ever want to use money, its like on the hundreds for a character. Nexon is ass in this, in BA its like $300 for a spark, in limbus you just use 10 dollars and you expect pretty much to dispense every ego and id for the season, which are not even required to do hard content. In BA? Good look trying to even do insane or torment, lol lmao.
Limbus has NO powercreep, just ask zwei Sinclair!
i cant believe butterfly yi sang powercrept acheron
Glory to Limbus company
Well if youplay the game right and do a loy of mirror dungeon yiu get enough thing for free unit si yeah it's all good i guess
peak voice
poor zwei sinclair :((
I think the major problem with powercreep lie on the PVP side more than PVE. At least in PVE u can use any chars, but in PVP if u don't have the meta chars than too bad for u, prepare to get rekt by others player.
Meurso smiling!!
I feel so little fomo from limbus and that is why i play and pay it till this day
Sharding characters is not actually something innovative, if you played gacha games for some time now you know that "Sharding" is a concept from about 10 YEARS AGO. It basically executes exactly how Limbus does it, you can use shards to get a character, or in this case an Identity, and then in the future use more shards to further upgrade your characters.
It's just that nowadays the big greedy corpos want you to think that you gotta grind irL to pay for the grind you were initially meant to do in-game.
Absolutely Horrific.
but are those examples of yours as easy as limbus sharding? was there even something to that level? i have been wasting my time with gachas for a long time, and neven seen something that high of a quality that is that f2p friendly
Lowkey fgos fault for this
what is this editing 💀
powercreep only extends to every unit getting coin power/final power/basepower conditionals nowadays ( release ID's -> Canto 4 ID's are dead )
Walpug isnt rwally that bad since you can farm a lot of lunacy before
Until you get noting but voice tapes
This Season is TrueAncestorCreep, Archetype Doncreep.