How to Belay with a GriGri: Common Mistakes | Beginner Advice | Personal Experience | Review
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- Опубліковано 24 лют 2017
- Everything you need to know about Belaying Correctly with the Grigri, my favourite Belaying Device for Sport Climbing. This tutorial is packed with useful tips and advice, aiming at increasing the safety and handling of your belay, especially if you are a beginner.
Please keep in mind that climbing is a dangerous sport, and any mistakes can quickly have a deadly outcome. You are responsible for your own actions, regardless whether you applied the advice given in this tutorial or not. Consider seeking and completing professional training if you are new to belaying in general.
Quicklinks to the three chapters:
Specs, Areas of Use, Advantages, Disadvantages: 1:36
How to Belay PROPERLY: 6:32
Personal Experience, Dangerous Moments, Tips and Tricks: 12:48
In case you are interested in getting the Grigri, check it out here: goo.gl/7fRH46
Don't forget to drop a like if you've learned something you didn't know already, share the video with some climbing mates, and leave some comments down below about what your favourite belaying devices are and why, including eventual dangerous moments in your climbing career, so that we all can learn from them and prevent potential future accidents from happening.
Thank you for your attention, and I'll see you in the next episode!
How To Belay with a GriGri : Common Mistakes | Beginner Advice | Personal Experience | Review by Mani the Monkey
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The Grigri is such an awesome device, but honestly I don't think I've ever seen more bad belaying habits than with it. Because it is so secure people tend to get lazy and further ingrain these bad habits which may under different circumstances be deadly
This is definitely true. One has to make an effort to not get lazy with things as belaying feels so "comfortable" with the Grigri.
Yeah like the habits mani the monkey was doing in this video like eating shit and putting on glasses while the climber is locked off
Like letting go of the brake line to put on belay glasses?
yep. I also noticed that. At least you could use this as a comment that it should not be done, even if he has his full wight on the line, and use that as a break. I slap belayers when i see them do that. Experienced or not. And other note, when saying that you do not let new climbers use a tube to belay you, i partaly agree with it. In some courses here in portugal, they use the tube to teach the new climbers how to belay properly. The danger on teaching climbers using only a semi autodevice, is that they have the tendency to go on full automatic. I have been in ocasions, that i explain how to belay properly, never let go the breake line, and some other friend sayd, now you forget what he says, and use it like this (explained the wrong way)... I have started climbing when the belay device 8 was used for providing security. So, ya, i learned the hard way (whitout acidents) how to belay, and never let go the break line. Also when feeding or taking rope to the belay...but general, good video.
I'd much rather trust the machine than the human. I'd prefer a distracted belayer with a grigri compared to a vigilant belayer without an automatic catch.
Great video, been climbing sport for almost 2 years and feel like I've had enough time with a regular belay device. I've wanted to try a grigri for some time, and just grabbed one today that came on sale. This video has me pumped for getting it, can't wait to give it a try! Appreciate the tips and good info!
Thanks for great video. I will share it around to my friends that just started sport climbing. I needed this when I started, still great video. Glad to see you point out your own mistake in a video and I am really greateful you pointed out partner check!
Best video I've come across about the safe & realistic use of the grigri. It is potentially prone to more dangerous misuse than a simple ATC but is also potentially much easier/safer when used correctly.
This Is the best most in-depth informative video on a Grigri! Thank you!
Great video, thanks! Good explanation of the proper way to play out slack. Another risk to watch for: Some people can operate a variable speed drill, and some can't. It's either full off or full on. Some drive that way - either full throttle or no throttle. Practice lowering at low altitude to be sure your belayer can operate the lever correctly, not either full off or full on. Worse - people have been dropped when the belayer isn't checked and starts to lower you, and discovers they can't release the lever with one hand. They let go of the brake and use two hands to release the lever. It has happened to others, and it's happened to me! My bad for not checking my belayer first.
thank you, very educational and really good to refresh my belaying skills for the coming outdoor season!
Good instructions and tips! Keep up the good work Mani!
Awesome video. I just started indoor, top rope climbing about 6 months ago. I have been using an ATC but when the Grigri went on sale combined with some soon-expiring REI dividends, I thought it would make for a reasonable purchase. I am excited to learn how this works and practice the motions but I can say that I am extremely glad I began with the ATC if for no other reason but to mentally comprehend that there are times when your belay device is working and when it is not working. Learning to belay with that in mind helps you to learn to not only to respect the limitations of the device but also how to manage risk and pay attention to your climber.
Awesome video, as always, very well explained and full of useful details. Thanks a lot for your work ! :)
Very Nice video! Always useful to know the right way to belay! I ve seen too many climber risking their life because they didn't know how to belay properly! THX and keep crushing mani
A big piece of content is finished: Lots of advice on how to give a proper belay with the Grigri, plus a few general things to consider when getting into belaying in sport climbing, especially for beginners.
Quicklinks to different topics and to the Grigri itself in the description!
Hope you've got something from it, see you in the next one!
Thanks mate, will take a course in lead climbing in April, so this came out just at the right time.
I am climbing for 19 years and i have spent hours to convince people that belaying is a serious task and that everybody must ensure to adopt best habits while doing so. Even adapt to the techniques' evolution thru the years. We spend so many hours belaying as we spend in climbing and the best habits will be there when the unexpected happens. Thank you for your video.
I like the awsome detail of showing a climber doing a hard route!
Wie immer sehr gutes Video Mani. Wollte schon immer wissen ob ich das GriGri richtig benutze. Weiter so!
I agree with everything you said, apart from what beginners use. I would rather teach someone to belay with a regular device as it reinforces the rule of not letting go of the braking side of the rope. I have seen people who have only used a grigri to belay taking their hands off the rope even when the cam is engaged.
great point , I agri, should be that the same basic technique is consistent across all devices. Keep your breaking hand down, and never, ever let go. No matter what the device, so when cross over (of devices and generations) occurs, no f****r dies. Hoopla! RTTS!
Wonderful informational video. I am just beginning my lead career and will need to become experienced in Gri-Gris. This film was the perfect introduction. Thank you!
Thank you, good information for making better use of my grigri. Those stores at the end were scary. Never look away, that's the lesson. Wow.
Absolutely!
Love your videos!
Something that I find safer while lowering: only use one or two fingers on the lever - same as with a motorcycle brake for example, it gives you more feel and makes it less likely to grab the handle and pull it back hard by accident.
Yup. They taught this at my local gym when I took a course. Maximum two fingers or you may pull the lever back if you "panic".
Just ordered one, great and informative video man
very informative with great detail! thanks!
Nice video man. I avoided the gri-gri for lead belaying for a long time because I ignorantly thought it would be annoying and cumbersome and not worth it. After learning that it is actually easier, more relaxing, AND safer I've never looked back. I really appreciated when you mentioned that the gri-gri provides an extra layer of security for those moments when mistakes (or the unexpected) happen. I've encountered so many climbers who refuse to consider the value of a gri-gri on the basis that "a normal ATC works fine as long as you do it right" which I find enormously frustrating as everybody should know humans are not perfect and we will make mistakes sometimes. It is inevitable. I always say if you have two overlapping systems that are low chance of failure then the probability of total failure is virtually zero.
I hope this video convinces at least a few more people to switch to auto-blocking devices for sport climbing, especially as more and more people get into climbing with less and less mentorship. I personally witnessed THREE ground falls this past summer, all at the hands of tube ATCs and all by belayers with a minimum of 3 years of climbing experience. Luckily no serious injuries occurred but one of them was a 4 meter fall onto jagged rock that could have been fatal if not for extreme luck. Climber was literally saved because his head slammed into the rope pile instead of the ground.
Thanks for your great input man, DEFINITELY true! It takes a lot of time and a massive amount of belays and climbing meters to recognise that the unexpected (like a breaking hold, or even a loose bolt) CAN and DOES happen, and that nobody's perfect, ANYONE can make mistakes, also route setters and bolters!
Especially beginners often belay with non-automatic devices, which is pretty strange to me as they are at even greater risk, I still can recall the days back when I was belaying with the tuber, dangerous times! Obviously they use it quite often in beginner courses or whatnot, or it's purchased more often because it is cheaper, who knows.
Old comment, but the DAV (Deutsche Alpenverein) has updated their course criteria and an autotuber (Edelrid Jul 2) is now used to teach belaying with.
excellent ending song, really adds so much to the videos man, keep up the good work, your content is excellent and a joy to watch
Angus Kay wind by akeboshi! one of the best. Naruto's anime ending song
Nir S haha really? awesome, thankyou for that
Thanks a lot! Today I´m getting my first belaying device and it will definitely be a Grigri :)
Thanks for the information, me and my wife are new to climbing and I must admit this sounds like a sensible idea to me. It did cross my mind that what if one of us was hit by a rock or tripped over.
All the best.
Regards.
Thanks for sharing. Good information. Just getting one for the first time. :)
Excellent video, thank you!
Thanks for the video!
Thank you for the great video!
Awesome video, thank you!!
If you can I'd recommend showing which loop you should clip into. Great video good tips.
Great explanation. Thank you.
Regarding your tip regarding the attention of the belayer. Well said.
Great video, thanks. Just bought a grigri+ after exactly the incident you described: feeding out as my climber was clipping from an easy hold, looking at my feet and taking a split second too long to realise they weren't pulling more rope but falling. A 2m fall became a 5m fall and they finished bouncing 0.5m from the ground. I don't want this to happen again, so I'm looking forward to the additional security of the locking mechanism.
Great video! You covered probably all details in belaying with a grigri. One additional tip, that you obviously do in the video, but has not been mentioned- carabinier position. with a crew-lock it's a good a idea to have it with the gate facing left (as in the video ) so the rope won't run the screw down somehow. Great video Mani! As a relatively new climber your videos are great advice and an inspiration to climb better (and maybe harder).
Glad to hear the content is inspiring, thanks for the great input, I can only agree!
As I am also a caver I have had the opportunity to learn to love auto-locking carabiners. I use Triacts (Petzl Omni, Am'D, & William) in various places (like for rappel racks and my Kong Indy EVO) and have taken to using a BD GridLock Magnetron for belay. The auto-lock is great, but it must always be checked just like any regular 'biner. I use them because they are less likely to become unlocked, not because I think being lazy is a good idea.
The trick to happy auto-locker use, especially with the Triacts, is keeping them clean and applying fresh graphite (as that's what Petzl seems to be using) when needed after washing and drying completely.
I’m a beginner and I have not been climbing very long. I found your video very helpful.
Regarding the conversation about why beginners should not be using tube devices I think it’s important that they start with an atc or tube belay in a controlled environment (I.e climbing gym in a class) so they can get down fundamental braking technique. Realistically the classes should teach both atc and grigri at the same time so beginners can get down the fundamentals with both.
Only 1 downvote so far on a controversial topic like this is an achievement. Kudos for tackling a controversial topic.
Good video. I pretty much do the same things, with the exception that when I dole out a heap of slack, I slide my right hand down on the brake side of the rope, clutch it in my four fingers, leaving my thumb free. I then put just the thumb on the grigri and pull the slack through with my left hand. That way I'm never letting go of the brake end. I think there are a few variants that some people prefer over others, just so long as people don't the big no-no's.
When lowering, I hold the brake end to my right hand side just slightly behind my back, to create friction across my hip - I find that helps to control the lowering, particularly with new rope.
Excellent info thank you
There was this one time when my belayer, using an ATC, was looking at the ground arranging the rope and what not. In that moment I was attempting a step in leading climbing some 4 clips off the ground. The tiny rock I was gripping inside a crack broke, hit my helmet with a loud sound (luckily not my face or eyes) and I fell. My belayer caught me just fine. I didn't notice anything. He later told me he wasn't paying attention at that moment and had to react quickly. I believe his braking hand never left the rope while he was looking at the ground.
Shaking out at 16:30 is so cute and funny editing. Thanks for the useful video.
great video, nice work!
personnaly I love the first toucan or a stitch plate, but always with gloves, it's pretty safe, and allow to belay in a really dynamic way,
If i'm tired, or if there is risk of rockfall, I use the megajul, you can rappel with, use twind rope, it's the easiest device for giving slack, and it's from my point of view the safest
Grigri is the best tool for working, brushing holds etc
Thanks for the input man, I think these are really rare at the sport climbing crag, never seen them in action!
Thanks for a very informative video Mani.
I have a continued Skepticism for the grigri. While the autoblocking does serve a very nice function I have seen it fail because of user errors, once saw a guy being lowered and the belayer quickly realized it was to quick, so the reaction was to pull the lever even harder, so the climber hit the ground. User mistake you might say, and I can't disagree, but the fact remains that pulling stuff even harder in a emergency or as reaction is just human instinct.
I was very fond of the gri gri for route setting in the indoor, the ease of ascending/descending the rope made this device ideal for spending a long time in the harness.
Human instinct? I realize this post is old, but I would say "instinct" is more likely to just let go.
@@Aaron-xq6hv Not really. You see it all the time in different sports. Happens on motorcycles a lot too. Someone gets nervous losing control of the bike and they rip the throttle even more.
That said, if you’re concerned about that get the GriGri Plus. It has an emergency brake if you pull all the way back on the handle, exactly for what he described.
After watching this again and just having started my roped climbing endeavors I've decided to buy myself a Grigri 2. I have a DMM Pivot ATC which works really nice but rather be safe than sorry. The DMM Pivot will have other use cases plus my life is worth more than 45 euros.
Probably best to switch them from time to time to keep good belaying practice ingrained though.
Awesome video for a beginner like me! I really appreciate the attention to detail in the video and the mention of how to avoid many mistakes that could end in disaster, as well as just plain not being lazy. I have only belayed with the ATC, which doubles as a rappelling device, mostly because that is the device I learned with and the price is much more within my budget (which is pretty tight). I have recently acquired a GriGri2, but did not know how to use it other than the operation manual (confusing). This demonstration gave me a good idea of how to use it and I will make sure to get real one-on-one, in-person instruction from someone who has a lot of experience with this device before I attempt using it in a real situation. Thank you for this video, Mani! By chance, have you heard of or tried the Trango Vergo auto-belay device? Opinions?
Thanks for your feedback man, be sure to get properly instructed, soon. I have seen, but never used the Vergo, so I can't tell about its qualities :/
Awesome video
Hello, just to keep things up to date. The new 2019 version of the Grigri is basically the Grigri 2 but with the wider range of rope diameters (8.5 - 11mm) of the Grigri+ but without the anti-panic function and without the top-rope mode and stainless steel enforcement. It's going to replace the Grigri 2 however the Grigri+ will still be around. I also agree with what others have commented, you might want to add some editing to your video, explaining that leting go the the rope is an absolute NO-NO! (you do this while you grab your belay goggles).
Thank you for the video, I learned a lot. May I ask, what do you think of the Beal Birdie?
Some folks suggested that I should use the black lever to regulate friction rather than just my brake hand -- the idea being to train myself to use that to regulate friction so that if a sudden jerk comes along, my instinct is to let go of the handle and let the grigri lock rather than to clamp the handle back and potentially have my brake hand lose grip and pull through
Super video, thanks. Full of lots of useful advice and tips. I agree that new belayers should start with a GriGri.
Hey Mani, I'm new to climbing and one thing I did in the beginning when lowering the climber was allow the excess rope to roll over onto the side of the lever on the GriGri. I don't think you brought that up and may seem obvious, but to someone that is novice we may not think of it. It will wear down the rope because that side is not rounded and smooth, also when trying to close the brake lever it can get caught in between, not allowing the lever to fully close.
Thanks for the input, valid point!
nice video, best pants :P
Haha thanks man :D
I use both personally, sometimes the grigri sometimes the atc
good video... i´ve just been climbing for a little more than a year now, but wanted to carefully ask if your positioning in relation to the first bolt is off a little. it seems you get pulled towards the wall quite a bit... or is it to catch a fall softer? also i noticed you taking off your brakehand(s) when reaching for the spectral glasses or was the climber on a solid ledge? Best regards!
Du machst hier echt einen verdammt guten Job für alle Kletterer (ob Anfänger wie mich, oder Fortgeschrittene) da draußen. Weiter so Mani! :-) Danke
I prefer autotubes like the megajul or the up, they also have a (quasi)autolocking mechanism and they are much easier to use than the grigri
Hey did you make the video in Leonidio and the beginning on the Roof of Sasas house?
i was there until yesterday.
Mani, I think it is important to mention that the grigri is NOT an autoloading device. There are certain situations where the grigri will not lock, for instance if your climber is high up on a slab and they fall slowly with rope drag and lots of rope out. You should check the petzl website for the other examples they list as well. I've seen more aweful belays with the grigri than and ATC or tube device. Especially as sport crags where people are new to climbing, and getting outside for the first time.
Autolocking***
Incredible video, coming from "another random person on the internet". I'm a no-grigri enthusiast", but it's due to me and 10% of the population being left handed. I use the smart alpine.
Can you do a review on the Wild Country Revo belay device?
dont forget to remove the rope right away after the climber is on the ground, as the gri-gri gets very hot during the lowering/down-belaying, AND dont grab on the climber side of the rope during a fall, as it might prevent the gri-gri from blocking, resulting in bad rope burn.
Hi Mani , I noticed when lowering the climber you suggest to fully release the gri gri mechanism and use the breaking hand to adjust the lowering. I was taught to release the mechanism only to the point where the climber is steadily lowering rather than using the breaking hand. What are your comments and feelings about that?
Easier said than done sometimes. The most effective practice for me is really a combination of the two. I intend to keep the force on the camming mechanism, but putting a (small and variable) portion of the force onto the braking hand can yield a much smoother lower.
correct me if i'm wrong but at precisely 1:30 you've got zero hands on the brake side of the rope, while i'm assuming there is someone on the other side of the rope.
2:38
oh no
The climber wasn't climbing at that moment.
Still you never let go.
yeah. noticed that also. the only time you can do that is if you tie a bit or other stopper knot very close to the device when someone is hanging on it, but this should only be used in emergencies.
schönes video, danke! was ist das eigentlich für ein ort wo ihr klettert, schaut super fein aus. greetz
The grigri does slide during fall arrest, just less than an ATC. I am not sure where you got the idea that it is an immediate lockup (which is obviously physically impossible, there has to be some rope movement to start engaging the camming action anyway, and nothing in the real world happens instantaneously).
Additionally you demonstrate the difficulty of controlling the gate on a slippery rope when lowering perfectly. It indicates that you obviously need to hold the rope feeding hand back around your hip to the side to provide additional friction at the hip, which you didnt show in the video however. Much easier to control without risking rope burn (and bad relfex reactions to getting burned, like letting go).
At 8:45 you show the belayer waiting for the climber to need more rope, and he has his brake hand waiting with the rope above the grigri, instead of below it, which would provide more friction over the side of the grigri, assisting the trigger (as you're mentioning just at that moment).
At 9:50 you show the belayer holding the climber and brake rope sides in his left hand while messing with slack on the right hand. While not entirely unsafe, this may generate serious rope burn if the climber were to fall just then, with the belayer reacting in possibly unsafe ways to sudden severe pain (letting go?).
(I've been using a grigri 1 and then 2 for 15 years.)
Nice Video, which camera are you using? :)
I use a Sony Cybershot RX100 III
I prefer the Trango Cinch device.
I hope i didn't see you taking away your hand from the braking rope there ;)
AmBockshorn for the belay glasses. Bahaha
The climber was on the floor
Thanks
Hey mani, thanks for the video. Any plans to do a video on your preferred method of clipping rope into a runner while lead climbing? Anchors?
It's a good product. But I find myself always relying on the locking cam system and then find it hard to switch back to a normal belay device. It's a terrible habit to get into
but why switch back?
@@yoavraman8919 alpine climbing when I need a belay device which can repel from two ropes. Also weight
I've been using my grigri (1) now for over 8 years but the recent announcement of the Wild Country Revo makes me want to switch as fast as possible. Probably coming out in 2-3 month. Check it out, looks super promising and removes all the problems the grigri has. (Another disadvantage: Left handed people)
Totally forgot about that one: Yes, the GriGri is asymmetric, thus left handers have a hard time. Thanks for the input, will check out the WC Revo.
I believe the Click-Up is as safe, or safer, and addresses all the problems of the GriGri (locking during fast paying of slack, potential for panic-gripping, and left-handed use). It's pretty much exactly the same to use as an ATC, but with "autolock"/assisted-braking like a GriGri. It's been out for a while now and is cheaper than the Revo is going to be :) No affiliation, I just bought one a while ago and am converted ;)
Still, the Click Up doesn't count as a semi-automatic, since its mechanism is dependant on the carabiner you're using. Plus it is vital that your braking hand is below your Click Up at any time to work properly.
Those points don't apply to semi-automatic belaying devices. Cheers!
I'm not sure how "its mechanism is dependant on the carabiner you're using" is a negative point - just use an appropriate carabiner, like you need to do for anything else that you use a carabiner for. I'm also not interested in whether or not the word one uses to describe it is "semi-automatic" - my argument was that it's "as safe, or safer, and addresses all the problems of the GriGri
(locking during fast paying of slack, potential for panic-gripping, and
left-handed use)", which I still stand by!
Any tips on controlling the speed of rope feeding through? I am pretty new to climbing and feel the GriGri feeds too quickly and is burning my hand a little.
You have to control the speed with your braking hand whilst lowering. You can try using gloves for belaying if you're worrying about getting burned.
The other thing to remember about rope gloves is that good ones actually allow you to put more breaking force into the rope than a bare hand. This can be both good and bad. If you decide to use gloves practice "on the ground" with them before "in situ" use.
It's funny to hear you say if a beginner belays you you would want it to happen with a grigri and not anything else because a different climbing channel said the opposite advising beginners to not start with a grigri because it's a more complicated device compared to and ATC. Btw, I agree with you.
I believe most shools with climbing walls use grigri's.
AAAAAwesome video. Great content and Information. Would have liked some advice on how to congratulate your partner for the send after letting come down. ;-) Anyway i would love a video like this on the tube.
Thanks!
Is your outro song from naruto?! If so that’s awesome haven’t watched that show in a while
yeah it is the outro song from naruto :)
I'm traumatized of this thing due to an accident while I lead climbing. The belayer was not experienced and when I was going to clip on the last bolt she did not give enough slack because the grigri blocked. Since it blocked while I was pulling the rope, the force made me fall. Since the clip before it was on a transverse, and I was caught by surprise, I fell sideways and I hit my head on a pointy rock. Luckily I was weawing a helmt... It broke, but I still had a cut on my ear. Since then, I only lead climb on tubular belays. Granted I rarely do sports climbing, I do more of trad or big wall, so a grigri is even worse because of weight and bulkiness. Also there is the fact that the worse belay errors I see is because of sloppiness while using a grigri because people generally feel it is fool proof.
nice one. My favorite is the mega jul. also semi auto but lighter than the grigri and you can also rapel!
what is the route at the of the video? sick!!!
I used the mega jul a lot during the course for the basic exercise instructor, I like that it's so simplistic but yet semi-automatic. It's an 8b called What, very recently I've managed to do the flash :D got caught on camera, I'll put out the uncut ascent video next week.
Mani the Monkey so are you a dav kletterbetreuer or trainer c?
I am an Übungsleiter, I do some workshops on the campusboard/hangboard (and other gym things) here and there.
i heard that the grigri is the most difficult to give slack when lead belaying, in comparison to other belay devices. do you think this is true?
Kaori Saito I think it is just practice honestly. I’ve belayed ATC and GriGri mainly as well as a few others, and find that grigri is least intuitive but easiest to pick up quickly. It took me a long time to figure out atc lead belay but I had immediately figured out in theory how it should work. When I learned grigri, it made no intuitive sense but having been taught what to do, picked it up in 2 short days. Now I prefer to belay grigri for almost the exact opposite reason. I am fluid enough to give a soft catch and not short rope the climber, but I am on my toes the whole time which just makes me more aware and I find it safer. If I am teaching, I teach ATC so people don’t get in bad habits of letting go of break, but ultimately still find the ATC belay a bit harder. Definitely personal preference though
Edit: holy crap that is the longest comment I’ve ever written! Would love to discuss this if people are still watching this video of horrible techniques 😆anyway thanks for reading all my rants!
9:50 Might want to edit that out. You are holding it in the worst possible position while sorting out the rope. Would be better let it go all together
Yep! Just posted about that.
This is explicitly mentioned in the GriGri manual as potential lethal.
What is he doing wrong? I can only see him holding the rope. I'm fairly new to climbing so I cant tell what hes doing wrong.
@@tattooedclimber7209 he was holding the braking rope above the belay instead of down past the friction plate.
Hi Mani great videos, could you do one on skin care, especially sandpapering.
Ty hf
Need to get this one done finally, so many people requested it already..
Shouldn't you be backing up your brakehand when taking in slack?
Don't you want to be close to the wall (or under the first quick draw) when belaying?
If you want to do automatic ’’belayer'' just clip GriGri to extended point clip it in (you are climber) and tie under the GriGri prusik as braking hand and tadaaaa u got blocking mechanism (u need some guy to get u down)
The guy climbing in this is fucking crushing
Have you tried the Beal, Birdie Belay Device, if so, what do you think of it?
0:45 Isn't it better to keep in line with the upgoing rope as a belayer in case the climber falls, in order not to pull that hard from the first bolt (in addition to the last one) due to the sudden rope tension?
I was taught this, too. Dynamic belaying however, means you need to be able to move. If you're directly below the clip, you can only move upwards. Also, if you think your protection might pop during a fall, you need to rethink your placement!
@@danthornham-xt7xh I see... There's also the risk of hitting the wall if you get projected to it, or fall if you are further. Doesn't it happen?
at 9:25, the rope is a bit frayed. If you still have it in 2019, maybe time for a replacement!
I just have seen too many accidents all done with GriGri. And this video shows why. If you were belaying me I would ditch you as soon as I get down (if I´d be able to).
Can I belay someone while they also use auto belay? For the purpose of me training my belay skills like giving slack
The comments in the video might be ok, but the demonstration is not always. 1. mistake: the belayer releases his breaking hand for a second (1:28, 2:49). 2. mistake: breaking hand above the device (8:43). 3. mistake: belayer takes climbers side of the rope and the belaying side in one hand (9:51). All those mistakes could result in a ground fall.
Please, even with a grigri, keep to the most important rule in belaying. NEVER let go of the break end of the rope. You let it go multiple times in this video (while also not looking at the climber), this is incredibly unsafe. The grigri can and will unlock if the climber unloads the rope and it can fail to lock without tension / resistance on the break side. Letting go in the loaded locked position might be the most dangerous thing you can do with it, as this is very close to the best condition (no slack unloaded) for it to fail to lock. There are resources out there that go into details on the physics of the grigri, but the short summary is, the break action depends >only< on the tension on the break side.
never leave the right hand from rope of the grigri NEVER period. Plus, never ever block the mechanism! if you need to give rope fast use the gaswerk technic although with grigri2 n light ropes you can almost always use the grigri as a tube specially if you leave half meter rope for dyno falling
Thank you, although I'd modify that statement in a way that most beginners don't need to hear: Only release the brake hand when the system is locked up tight and backed up properly, as in with a proper backup knot or system such as one would use to escape the belay in an emergency situation.
I tried googling the gaswerk technique but couldnt find anything on it. Even the petzl website demonstrates giving slack quickly the way mani suggested. Can you elaborate?
what could possibly go wrong doing that if your hand is on the brake rope?
the climber weight will instantly pull up the mechanism if he falls and youre holding the brake rope
@@felipenasser7794if your hand is engaged on the brake strand. If it's not gripping the rope but just allowing rope to pass it will run through the grigri. This can be avoided by following petzls instructions and returning to braking position after feeding rope and learning to go back and forth between both positions.
I always have problem to give slack when I use grigri, even when I do it correctly as Petzl have in instruction and you described it. I think it's because I don't use it at all almost. From the beginning of climbing I using the tube belayer device and never have problem to give a slack. Of course tube doesn't have anny support system, but it's so easy to belay with this. I also against grigri because it's expensive device and dynamic belaying is more complicated than with tube device.
Anyway I have looked for another device and I decided to using ATC Pilot, it have geometric support while belaying and for me it's like between those two previous devices.
Anyway, maybe I will give the chance grigri in the future but always annoying me when I using it.
Maybe someone have a good advice?
I also thought that problem with giving a rope with grigri is because rope is fat, old or dirty, also gri.
Sorry for my not perfect English 😅
Practice switching between taking and giving slack while on the ground without anyone on the rope. Review the hand positions described in the video and copy them exactly. Practice this for a few minutes each day until it's ingrained in your muscle memory. Then you will have no issues :)
Grifri is only for right-handed people (Rechtshänder). My breaking hand is left. Tried the Grigri once, but I was totally confused.
Just turn it upside down.
My 13 year old son suffered multiple broken spine whilst falling off climbing wall at his school. The instructors had them using a bell ringing technique. 1 climber, 1 anchor, 1 tail. No standard belay device, just carabiner and munter/italian hitch. The tail let go of the rope and he fell 6 metres onto he floor.
If they had used a grigri device on that rope, I'm sure his fall would have been arrested after 1.5 to 2 metres.
A grigri is a good back up. But if someone is not able to climb without it he should not go climbing. Also I would prefer someone to belay me with an italian hitch over a gri gri if he has no idea how the gri gri works but is good in useng an italian hitch. Also climbing is a dabgoures sport and accidents can happen
@@bastianbeckert3072 he was able to climb without a gri gri BUT only , if his untrained and unsupervised belay partner hadnt let go of the tail.
@@DD-cg1tm I guess then he had a bad belayer but these things happens.
Does anybody have any tips against Cringles in the rope? I don't have a rope bag right now so i have to coil my rope. I pull my rope through my hands before i start climbing to get the cringles out but no later than when i let the climber down my rope cringles alot. Is that problem past when i buy a ropebag or are there any other points to mention?
Semjon Borzutzki whats your belaydevice?
HMS belaying makes those curls. Did you uncoil your rope correctly when you bought it? And your coiling method might be wrong. And then there are shitty ropes that curl too much.
jodelboy The Grigri 2 and sometimes a mammut smart
Do Not take this video as fact. Like many things on UA-cam it does contain truth and facts. HOWEVER, there are far too many careless oversights and some complete falsehoods. This becomes extremely dangerous when viewed in its very professional production. .. I've been climbing seriously and consistently for 25 years, relocating many times for the sake of climbing. Also, a varied work experience centering around several different types of rigging and high angle work has rounded my knowledge base.
Please keep in mind this is just my opinion. Always strive to improve your methods and always ask what you could have done differently, this will show you new and better approaches. Have Fun!
Jake Veresh this is not a useful comment. If you saw something that was done incorrectly and needs to be brought to light, please do so, so we can learn something. Just saying there are "complete falsehoods" helps no one.
I don't have the time to detail all the mistakes made, so it is a useful comment. James, there is an underlying problem. Which is, a new climber can view this video as fact and will not know that they are being taught "complete falsehoods" because they don't have the experience needed to separate fact from fiction, that's why its dangerous!! Obviously, sloppy technique is not acceptable in an instructional video! BUT, here a few things I remembered without reviewing the video.
A) The belayer grabs the sharp end of the rope with his brake hand while also holding the brake rope. Its ridiculous to see that type of sloppiness in a video that will be interpreted as instructional by most viewers.
B) The belayer walks backward to take up slack or walks in to give slack, this is unnecessary, so don't practice this lazy belay style. How do you walk backward while at a hanging belay, what if you trip on a rock, or fall backward over a drop-off cause you forgot how close it was? Walking backward should never have been popularized and taught in gyms and it significantly reduces a belayer's effectiveness and safety.
C) The Belayer is way to far away from the cliff and will likely get pulled off his feet. AND you can see the belayer lurch forward in the video, a harder fall would have pulled him off his feet! Its a belayer's job to use his body weight to control the climber's positioning as soon as he falls or is hanging on the rope. This is most effective from directly below the first draw,.. think of an area about the size of a goalie's crease in hockey.
D) Mani says "The Grigri is quite heavy to carry up long approaches" this is false. The Grigri's weight is not a concern for anyone who can benefit from a 'beginner's video' and its positive attributes FAR out weigh any concerns that it is too heavy!
E) He offers a great warning, saying 'these are just my opinions'. BUT AGAIN, that does not help people evaluate his opinions if they don't have enough experience for comparison.
Experienced climbers have a duty to new climbers to make sure they are getting correct information. A philosophy teacher will tell students, "beware the expert" so you don't become the victim of a dilettante. AS AN ACTIVITY, CLIMBING IS TOO DANGEROUS FOR ANYONE BUT THE MOST EXPERIENCED CLIMBERS (AND BEST TEACHERS) TO TEACH IN THIS FORMAT. ONE ON ONE INSTRUCTION IS PARAMOUNT!!!!!
Again, this is just one person's opinion, and you're free to do whatever you want, right? Climb well and have fun.
Thank you for the breakdown, very helpful.
Very helpful, thanks for your additional tips!
Hi ich hab ne super wichtige Frage zu dem Video. Passt auf Deutsch?
those are some bold pants my friend....
i cannot focus with those pants!!!! hahahahaha