Weapon Damage + Strength - Enemy Armour = Crit Dmg (I'm analyst and strategist and that missleading info in video made me focus mostly on increasing % chance to crit and suddenly in middle of the game I wasnt dealing any dmg to heavy armor enemies 90dmg vs 80armor etc.. and I felt hopeless. Poeple still love gothic and I feel like gona play it again. So u could consider to add some update note into video about formulas, if you care about true info :))
Its true, i tried out a character with much meele skill but less strenght and i cant do dmg against higher Enemys even with crits, my conclusion is even for a critical strike: ((Weapon Dmg + Str / 10) - Amor) *10 ... in this case all dmg will be absorbed by armor and after then the dmg will be multiplicated by 10. I see no other way why i cant do any dmg with high crit and low Strenght...
@@robchaoscraft8541 Your math is wrong there... If you deal a critical hit, the enemy's armor stat is detracted from your (weapon damage + strength), simple as that (ex: your str is 80, weapon dmg is 80, and enemy's armor is 40, the your critical hit damage would be (80+80)-40=120). The interesting bit is when you don't deal a successful hit. When the game detects that you don't hit the enemy with a crit, the enemy's armor goes down to 10% of its value. Same goes with your (weapon damage + strength). BUT due to probably an oversight, you also need to detract 10 dmg from this latter value as well (since you start the game with 10 str). Based on the previous example, your total damage would be (80+80-10)/10-40/10=[(80+80-10)-40]/10=11, when normally it should have been (80+80)/10 - 40/10=[(80+80)-40]/10=12. Also an important fact: no matter how weak you are or how strong the opponent's defense is, you will always deal 5 dmg. Let's say you have 60 str, weapon dmg is 60, and enemy's armor is 80. For a critical hit, you deal (60+60)-80=40 dmg, whereas for a non-critical hit, it would be [(60+60-10)-80]/10=3, which would turn into a 5. And funnily enough, there's this more often than not case early on in the game when your (weapon damage + strength) is lower than the enemy's armor: same rule applies. So if you have 10 str, 10 weapon dmg, and enemy's armor is 25, for a critical hit you deal (10+10)-25=-5, which turns into a 5 (and I won't even bother with the non-critical hit). This would be the game's way of telling you that you should come back and deal with this enemy once you're stronger. I guess you wonder: what should I invest my learning points in first? Strength or weapon skill? Based on my examples, it all depends on your encounters. If you have high weapon skill, but low strength, then you will consistently deal low damage successful crits, and it boils down to enemy armor. If you have high strength, but low weapon skill, then most of the time you will deal low dmg, and when it's a critical hit, it will be quite impactful, yet rarer. My advice is to find a balance between them, neither extreme is beneficial. There's no point in going mathematical here though, since this boils down to the player's skill: how good he/she is at avoiding the enemy's attacks, as well as dealing damage. Would you rather save/restart over and over with long tedious fights, or not venture too much off the main paths at first if you can't deal with the monsters, progress through the story, level up, get better gear, upgrade skills/stats and come back to those previously hard encounters and have an easier time going through the enemies? To each their own though, as long as you're enjoying your experience :)
@@j.alex629 Yes i guess, in this playthroug the amor was to high even for crits, i finished the game 15 times xD... in my actual playthrough I learned skill 30 and then go full strenght till 110, so i could clear both maps without problems, before goin further in part 3 (return to get the Eye of Innos).... I will now get skill to 60 and after this i will use consumeables to push all stats further... its easy going now :) **btw funny, im a Mage but i fight meele and use only lesser heal Spell so i dont have to eat for an whole army :P In late game i maybe will summon Deamon and get the best AOE- spell and spell against undead.... but of course it first is a meele char, feels like easy mode atm!
@@robchaoscraft8541 Yeah, it's a good strat to reach both weapon skill and str (if you play a melee based character) at 64 and then go from there with permanent potions, consumables and stone tablets. Some (myself included) would also go as far as investing points into strength up to 94, but it's not mandatory. Since the creme of the game happens before Halls of Irdorath (so you won't be benefiting from the more powerful version of Embarla Firgasto as paladin/dragon hunter until that point), if you stop with LP investment at 64 str, it would be impossible to wield the best 2H weapons without any belts/amulets/rings. Alas, I find myself talking about this without acknowledging the Claw of Beliar though, haha (which pretty much makes my recommendation moot). BUT since you're playing as a mage, the Claw is out of the question. In your case, sticking to str 64 and weapon skill 34 (might go 64 if you wanna) as far as you're willing to invest LP into, that should be more than enough for the rest of the game. And since you've played it so many times, I guess you're used to clearing out everything before heading onto chapter 6, so you'd have enough LP for mana and some dank runes as well :) Or...since you plan to be a proficient melee fighter who only uses magic for healing, then you're already on the right path.
Kind of strange that you need strength for crossbows and dexterity for bows, I don't know how many of the developers have drawn a actual warbow but it ain't no picnick on the muscles
Sure but I think it makes sense since you need alot of strength to arm a crossbow than a bow, a bow needs some strength of course but you need to be able to aim well in order to be effective, so dexterity counts as aiming skill, while crossbows are much easier at aiming.
Ah... good times! I wish games these days were still this good but unfortunately most of the industry pukes out either edgy From Software shit fests or braindead Assassin's Creed and Assassin's Creed clones.
From my experience it's best to first invest 20 LP to raise your chosen weapon skill to the next level and then go for the stat so you can use better weapons.
+20 in Weapon skill, than Strength to 100, i recomend skilling strenght firs until 5 Strenght will cost 15 SKillpoints, then raise Strength with Consumables like Posions, apples, Stews and Equip... when your strenght ist above 100 u can go up to Weapon skill 60 and rest doesnt matter much..
The video gets the melee damage wrong. Gothic 2 and Gothic 2 NotR have the same dmg formulas, which are different from Gothic 1. TD = Total Damage WD = Weapon Damage STR = Strenght AP = Armor Protection of the enemy NH = Normal Hit CH = Critical Hit *Gothic 1* _Melee weapons:_ NH: WD + STR - AP = TD CH: WD x 2 + STR - AP = TD _Distance weapons (Dex only influence the distance range):_ NH: WD - AP = TD CH: WD x 2 - AP = TD *Gothic 2 & NotR* _Melee weapons:_ NH: (WD + STR - AP - 1) / 10 = TD, TD >= 5 CH: WD + STR - AP = TD, TD >= 5 _Distance weapons (STR, even if it's needed to equip the weapon, is not counted for the damage):_ WD + DEX - AP = TD Credit: forum.worldofplayers.de/forum/threads/127320-Damage-System?p=2198181#post2198181
I'm a little confused. How do i increase the stat in this game other than items and praying? Is the usual mechanism of getting points when leveling up not applied here? Can i use learning point to increase stat?
Unlike many RPGs these days in which you can instantly increase your stats by using the in-game menu, Gothic focuses on immersion, thus requiring you to find teachers from which you can learn your desired skills. Usually none of them is a jack of all trades, as some can only teach you about melee combat, some about archery, some focus on various stats (mana, dexterity, strength) etc., nor can each and everyone do so until you reach your maximum stat (most of them have a certain limit). How and where to find them? Well, in essence, you just have to do what the game encourages you to: explore, talk to NPCs, go through the whole set of dialogue options with each of them. Some might not have anything interesting to say, some (if you ask them) can guide you towards some of these teachers as well as letting you know what their names are, or you can even stumble upon them yourself without any guidance of sorts. The easiest place to start this exploration from is the city of Khorinis. Or (if you play Gothic 2 with the addon "Night of the Raven") even within the first 10 minutes of the game you'll find someone who can teach you quite a variety of skills.
Did you mean (Weapon Damage + Strength - Protection) / 10? If you left it as Weapon Damage + Strength - Protection / 10 that would mean weapon damage + strength would do a lot more damage and protection would be a really useless stat if it's divided by 10 before being subtracted by Weapon Damage + Strength. Basic math
Far and away the WORST system piranha bytes has ever made on so many levels. Atrocious design, its why I rate Gothic 2 as a mid tier PB game instead of the best, its entirely because of this crit system. Normal Rpgs stop crits at double damage, fair, understandable. Even Gothic 1 had a very nice feeling damage formula. Gothic 2 ruins it by upping it by a factor of 10. The pressure this puts on low to mid level characters is Insane, if the enemy crits you die. Enemies in general seem to have a decent 30+% crit chance and many human npcs have hundreds of points of strength. I had 2nd level militia armor and 540 hp and I died several times attacking Bromar who was only using a dagger. Its an experience I will never forget. Anything holding a weapon can crit, this makes orcs skeletons and bandits the top of the enemy curve in Gothic 2. Animals are consistent to plan around they do static damage, therre is no sudden 1 shots that weren't already there. Lets not forget the incredible stress crit chance leveling puts on your very limited LP, they made its cost exactly the same as strength instead of just having 2 tiers like Gothic 1. It all culminates into a game extremely frustrating to play, or replay as the early game of Gothic 1 where you are a weakling is stretched from give or take 3 hours, all the way to 25 hours, there is no excuse for game design this poor and its a shame Archolos uses this crit system
![Gothic 2 Beginners Guide [Part 4]: Must have fix for windows 7, 8 & 10 (2016)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SpHf0xZZbuw/mqdefault.jpg)
![Gothic 2 Beginners Guide [Part 4]: Must have fix for windows 7, 8 & 10 (2016)](/img/tr.png)
Weapon Damage + Strength - Enemy Armour = Crit Dmg (I'm analyst and strategist and that missleading info in video made me focus mostly on increasing % chance to crit and suddenly in middle of the game I wasnt dealing any dmg to heavy armor enemies 90dmg vs 80armor etc.. and I felt hopeless. Poeple still love gothic and I feel like gona play it again. So u could consider to add some update note into video about formulas, if you care about true info :))
1:56 i guess they never miss huh?
Even with a critical melee hit, the enemy armor still applies, at least that's what most forums say.
Its true, i tried out a character with much meele skill but less strenght and i cant do dmg against higher Enemys even with crits, my conclusion is even for a critical strike: ((Weapon Dmg + Str / 10) - Amor) *10 ... in this case all dmg will be absorbed by armor and after then the dmg will be multiplicated by 10. I see no other way why i cant do any dmg with high crit and low Strenght...
@@robchaoscraft8541 Your math is wrong there... If you deal a critical hit, the enemy's armor stat is detracted from your (weapon damage + strength), simple as that (ex: your str is 80, weapon dmg is 80, and enemy's armor is 40, the your critical hit damage would be (80+80)-40=120). The interesting bit is when you don't deal a successful hit. When the game detects that you don't hit the enemy with a crit, the enemy's armor goes down to 10% of its value. Same goes with your (weapon damage + strength). BUT due to probably an oversight, you also need to detract 10 dmg from this latter value as well (since you start the game with 10 str). Based on the previous example, your total damage would be (80+80-10)/10-40/10=[(80+80-10)-40]/10=11, when normally it should have been (80+80)/10 - 40/10=[(80+80)-40]/10=12.
Also an important fact: no matter how weak you are or how strong the opponent's defense is, you will always deal 5 dmg. Let's say you have 60 str, weapon dmg is 60, and enemy's armor is 80. For a critical hit, you deal (60+60)-80=40 dmg, whereas for a non-critical hit, it would be [(60+60-10)-80]/10=3, which would turn into a 5. And funnily enough, there's this more often than not case early on in the game when your (weapon damage + strength) is lower than the enemy's armor: same rule applies. So if you have 10 str, 10 weapon dmg, and enemy's armor is 25, for a critical hit you deal (10+10)-25=-5, which turns into a 5 (and I won't even bother with the non-critical hit). This would be the game's way of telling you that you should come back and deal with this enemy once you're stronger.
I guess you wonder: what should I invest my learning points in first? Strength or weapon skill? Based on my examples, it all depends on your encounters. If you have high weapon skill, but low strength, then you will consistently deal low damage successful crits, and it boils down to enemy armor. If you have high strength, but low weapon skill, then most of the time you will deal low dmg, and when it's a critical hit, it will be quite impactful, yet rarer. My advice is to find a balance between them, neither extreme is beneficial. There's no point in going mathematical here though, since this boils down to the player's skill: how good he/she is at avoiding the enemy's attacks, as well as dealing damage. Would you rather save/restart over and over with long tedious fights, or not venture too much off the main paths at first if you can't deal with the monsters, progress through the story, level up, get better gear, upgrade skills/stats and come back to those previously hard encounters and have an easier time going through the enemies? To each their own though, as long as you're enjoying your experience :)
@@j.alex629 Yes i guess, in this playthroug the amor was to high even for crits, i finished the game 15 times xD... in my actual playthrough I learned skill 30 and then go full strenght till 110, so i could clear both maps without problems, before goin further in part 3 (return to get the Eye of Innos).... I will now get skill to 60 and after this i will use consumeables to push all stats further... its easy going now :)
**btw funny, im a Mage but i fight meele and use only lesser heal Spell so i dont have to eat for an whole army :P
In late game i maybe will summon Deamon and get the best AOE- spell and spell against undead.... but of course it first is a meele char, feels like easy mode atm!
@@robchaoscraft8541 Yeah, it's a good strat to reach both weapon skill and str (if you play a melee based character) at 64 and then go from there with permanent potions, consumables and stone tablets. Some (myself included) would also go as far as investing points into strength up to 94, but it's not mandatory. Since the creme of the game happens before Halls of Irdorath (so you won't be benefiting from the more powerful version of Embarla Firgasto as paladin/dragon hunter until that point), if you stop with LP investment at 64 str, it would be impossible to wield the best 2H weapons without any belts/amulets/rings. Alas, I find myself talking about this without acknowledging the Claw of Beliar though, haha (which pretty much makes my recommendation moot).
BUT since you're playing as a mage, the Claw is out of the question. In your case, sticking to str 64 and weapon skill 34 (might go 64 if you wanna) as far as you're willing to invest LP into, that should be more than enough for the rest of the game. And since you've played it so many times, I guess you're used to clearing out everything before heading onto chapter 6, so you'd have enough LP for mana and some dank runes as well :) Or...since you plan to be a proficient melee fighter who only uses magic for healing, then you're already on the right path.
It seems the Rapier, Master Sword and Betty factor in strength instead of dexterity for damage output, which sucks for a DEX/BOW playthrough.
Kind of strange that you need strength for crossbows and dexterity for bows, I don't know how many of the developers have drawn a actual warbow but it ain't no picnick on the muscles
u mean strenght xd
Sure but I think it makes sense since you need alot of strength to arm a crossbow than a bow, a bow needs some strength of course but you need to be able to aim well in order to be effective, so dexterity counts as aiming skill, while crossbows are much easier at aiming.
@Lonely Guy they just fluffed it a bit with crossbow damage still being determined by dexterity...
@@Venakis1 Drawing back a bow and keeping it pulled out takes a lot more strength. A crossbow you just pull it once.
Ah... good times!
I wish games these days were still this good but unfortunately most of the industry pukes out either edgy From Software shit fests or braindead Assassin's Creed and Assassin's Creed clones.
just a question did that build survive?
So if i want to increase my dmg early on, i should focus on stat (str) or skill of that weapon?
From my experience it's best to first invest 20 LP to raise your chosen weapon skill to the next level and then go for the stat so you can use better weapons.
@@corby789 late but.. 20? Better to get 24 in
+20 in Weapon skill, than Strength to 100, i recomend skilling strenght firs until 5 Strenght will cost 15 SKillpoints, then raise Strength with Consumables like Posions, apples, Stews and Equip... when your strenght ist above 100 u can go up to Weapon skill 60 and rest doesnt matter much..
Does this series also apply to the gothic 2 notr version?
Also, on gothic 1?
The video gets the melee damage wrong. Gothic 2 and Gothic 2 NotR have the same dmg formulas, which are different from Gothic 1.
TD = Total Damage
WD = Weapon Damage
STR = Strenght
AP = Armor Protection of the enemy
NH = Normal Hit
CH = Critical Hit
*Gothic 1*
_Melee weapons:_
NH: WD + STR - AP = TD
CH: WD x 2 + STR - AP = TD
_Distance weapons (Dex only influence the distance range):_
NH: WD - AP = TD
CH: WD x 2 - AP = TD
*Gothic 2 & NotR*
_Melee weapons:_
NH: (WD + STR - AP - 1) / 10 = TD, TD >= 5
CH: WD + STR - AP = TD, TD >= 5
_Distance weapons (STR, even if it's needed to equip the weapon, is not counted for the damage):_
WD + DEX - AP = TD
Credit: forum.worldofplayers.de/forum/threads/127320-Damage-System?p=2198181#post2198181
I'm a little confused. How do i increase the stat in this game other than items and praying? Is the usual mechanism of getting points when leveling up not applied here? Can i use learning point to increase stat?
Unlike many RPGs these days in which you can instantly increase your stats by using the in-game menu, Gothic focuses on immersion, thus requiring you to find teachers from which you can learn your desired skills. Usually none of them is a jack of all trades, as some can only teach you about melee combat, some about archery, some focus on various stats (mana, dexterity, strength) etc., nor can each and everyone do so until you reach your maximum stat (most of them have a certain limit).
How and where to find them? Well, in essence, you just have to do what the game encourages you to: explore, talk to NPCs, go through the whole set of dialogue options with each of them. Some might not have anything interesting to say, some (if you ask them) can guide you towards some of these teachers as well as letting you know what their names are, or you can even stumble upon them yourself without any guidance of sorts. The easiest place to start this exploration from is the city of Khorinis. Or (if you play Gothic 2 with the addon "Night of the Raven") even within the first 10 minutes of the game you'll find someone who can teach you quite a variety of skills.
@@j.alex629 oooh so that's why. Thanks so much for the guidance!
@@ezzong You're welcome :) Feel free to ask away any questions you might have about this game.
crossbow needs strenght , bud dmg is stil dex + crossbow dmg :-)
what sword is that? :O
Did you mean (Weapon Damage + Strength - Protection) / 10? If you left it as Weapon Damage + Strength - Protection / 10 that would mean weapon damage + strength would do a lot more damage and protection would be a really useless stat if it's divided by 10 before being subtracted by Weapon Damage + Strength. Basic math
Far and away the WORST system piranha bytes has ever made on so many levels. Atrocious design, its why I rate Gothic 2 as a mid tier PB game instead of the best, its entirely because of this crit system.
Normal Rpgs stop crits at double damage, fair, understandable. Even Gothic 1 had a very nice feeling damage formula. Gothic 2 ruins it by upping it by a factor of 10.
The pressure this puts on low to mid level characters is Insane, if the enemy crits you die. Enemies in general seem to have a decent 30+% crit chance and many human npcs have hundreds of points of strength.
I had 2nd level militia armor and 540 hp and I died several times attacking Bromar who was only using a dagger. Its an experience I will never forget. Anything holding a weapon can crit, this makes orcs skeletons and bandits the top of the enemy curve in Gothic 2. Animals are consistent to plan around they do static damage, therre is no sudden 1 shots that weren't already there.
Lets not forget the incredible stress crit chance leveling puts on your very limited LP, they made its cost exactly the same as strength instead of just having 2 tiers like Gothic 1. It all culminates into a game extremely frustrating to play, or replay as the early game of Gothic 1 where you are a weakling is stretched from give or take 3 hours, all the way to 25 hours, there is no excuse for game design this poor and its a shame Archolos uses this crit system
Thats not correct, Sorry!