Hey everyone, I'd like to introduce you to MB, the newest member of the Gamedev Adventures team. He's an avid gamer and video editor who helped make this video possible.
I would agree, but at the same time I think it benefits the most from the knowledge of what you are facing and how powerful all the tools (scrolls etc) are. 2nd Playthrough is a complete blast. The non-respawning enemies and fixed loot helps a lot.
I think you missed the point. The point is G2 handles hoarding the best one can. It gives you consumables, it rewards you for it, it gives and warns you about opportunities to use them, but at the same time you are not punished for hoarding or wasting them. No matter what you do, there will always be people who hoard finite resources, but G2 deals with it perfectly.
Agreed, when he did that I think my eye twitched a bit. The destroy undead scrolls used on the goblin skeletons too. Seriously, use ice arrow scrolls :P or even flame arrow scrolls.....they're THAT weak.
your point is valid but the content is shit otherwise. He's trying to make Gothic into something it isn't cause he's all grown up and wants to milk money off of fans that would click on his bullshit cause it involves Gothic. Hid points are all dumb, as explained in my big reply to this video.
If I remember correctly before needing meetbug scroll in gothic1, Gorn asks you to follow him and clear the area so nothing comes from behind. In the chest where it takes you, you can find meetbug scrolls. I think that was made intentionally and it didn't matter if you had them before going to do this quest or not.
you still might end up in same situation like me, who cleared cave in secnd chapter and used scroll to do some random shit, then spend couple of hours looking for replacement. My only luck is that devs made really obvious that you have to use scroll even when you found nothing.
@@Zamsky39 I'm pretty sure there are no "unopenable" chests in gothic. And @proximus in his comment above says that he actually used this scroll in chapter 2
One of the dumbest feelings I've ever had in video games is using a rare consumable on a tough enemy only to THEN be immediately faced with the MUCH HARDER boss. Pretty sure that's what started the single traumatizing event that started the whole hoarding plague lol
I hoarded everything in sight in Gothic games though... and usually ate cooked meat instead of using health pots, thus ending the game loaded with potions that were never used lol
Omg yes, making the journey harder for oneself trying to be prepared for an apocalypse just in case haha! Gothic surely makes you approach leveling and roaming differently
@@jasperzanovich2504 haha true. There are many alternative ways to replenish Health. And of course, the devs did it for a good reason. A lot of things in this game were rather brilliantly & purposefully designed, even if at first glance they may seem banal. To me, Gothic1/2 are the few RPGs which I consider to be the closest to what I consider a "true RPG". All the subtle systems and sub-systems, mechanics, and other details, make Gothic an extremely pleasant RPG series to play. Nobody realises how important these tiny subtle systems are until they actually play Gothic, or a Gothic-like game.
The ability to break out of the restrictive balancing curve is truly what makes scrolls in Gothic great. Ice block, fire rain, transformations, etc. Elex is worse at that, because the consumables are also balanced. Summoned drones quickly die to enemies, Grenades do barely more damage than a regular attack, and so on. That's also probably a key reason why many people complain about it being too clunky/difficult - you don't have the occasional cheats that let you skip some steps.
For sure. "Balanced" consumables usually just makes them useless. Thats too bad to hear about Elex though. I've only played the Gothic and Risen series so I was thinking of playing Elix at some point. Not that one small issue is going to stop me though.
Elex does have the whacky janky 'shortcuts' though. Ranged weaponry is ridiculously overpowered, making combat trivial. Oh, i do wish that the devs would finally make combat somewhat bearable. It seems like it is getting worse than in Gothic 1 which is both sad and hilarious at the same time, you would think they would have learned something in 20 years of development.
I keep my rain of fire for 2 areas. The bandit camp helmed by Dexter and Valley of mines. I love how 1-2 scrolls wipe out the entire army of Orcs surrounding the castle. I just run around the castle to let them chase me till the ram, then use rain of fire on the ram.
I usually use Diego to virtually clear out the Valley Of Mines in Chapter 2. Just aggro everything and step backwards, you are invincible to melee attacks when stepping backwards. Diego will mow down everything with his bow. Massive XP boost.
@@kooroshrostami27 then ur abusing the invincibility frames during backstep. I do prefer your method over just using a scroll but I'd probably just try to become so powerful that I can 1-hit each orc. I've yet to accomplish it but I did manage to wipe out more than half of the orcs in the valley (melee build) before dying, once. Is it possible? Not sure. With the DLC it might be, I only played through the DLC once before accidentally losing my savefile, so I'm not sure.
i wish TES would go back to a more rpg-ish type of game.. at least with dialog skyrim was nice but my god the dialog was bland and the characters blander
@@Phoenix-qv9hg 100%, i always missed that big mushrooms, and the uniqe creatures like the Alit, the Guar or just the Silt Strider... but another huge part that made morrowind better than what came after was the magic system, being able to creat own spells was so great and i still don´t understand how these dumbasses could leave such a great feature out when they made oblivion and skyrim. made it literally impossible to play as a mage (for me) because i always got reminded how limited this class was compared to morrowind.
I think another factor that comes into play is that there's a limited amount of *everything* - including enemies. Once you've killed an enemy that's blocking your path that path is unblocked forever, so you never feel like you've wasted an item. IMO, using finite resources to overcome finite challenges adds a sort of puzzle element to the game, and I love it.
I don't think the meatbug transformation would convince anyone to start hoarding. The quest is well designed in that you loot the spell scroll about 30 seconds before you're required to use it. Same with the shrink scroll you are intended to use on the troll with Diego.
If it happened early in the game it would have that effect, but I agree with you. Instead I think it showcased the utility of scrolls you might have ignored.
The fire-rain scroll is completely busted. The castle (at 5:37) is completely surrounded by orcs, and when you first come there, you most likely can't beat even one regular orc in melee combat, let alone that many, let alone the shamans and countless elite warriors. However, you can use a speed potion to outrun them, and you can make them follow you. Once you start losing a few, you have to run in a circle to get them to chase you again. If you do it right, you can get every single orc around the castle to come after you. Now you just have to get onto a place they can't follow you to, like by climbing on their tents. You will need 2 fire rain scrolls, but you can clear the entire area completely. It gives you a whole bunch of level ups and tons of orc weapons that you can sell. They come back in later chapters, where you can repeat this. It's just quite immersion breaking, because the paladins will still act as if they're stuck at the castle and surrounded by orcs, even when they could just stroll back to Khorinis unarmed and be fine. Also, if you open the gates, they still get overrun by newly spawned orcs.
hahah true. I actually did something similar, but I instead abused the castle ledges to snipe every orc. And the few that remained I simply killed in close-quarters. Not sure how much faster your method is. I'd have to try it someday. Definitely cooler than killing each orc one-by-one!
That is indeed a good point. Personally i'd appreciated of they implemented something to counteract that cheese. But i assume they had the same thought about that situation and decided to let the player be able to do that.
I actively try to avoid the "too good to use" or the hoarding mentality. Hoarding has never, ever paid off in 20 years of gaming for me, and eventually you learn from that and overcome the compulsion. You think it's smart when you're doing it, but 97.5 times out of 100 you're screwing yourself over and will just end the game with a ton of unused consumables when you could've had a much easier time.
Witcher 3 did a pretty good job too, potions are useful and powerful, and you only need to unlock them once, afterward, you can simply replenish them all by taking a rest
@@itarH at least it encourages me to actually use them whenever i can, and they make the game more fun, and there are potions for almost every occasions, and it made me feel like an actual witcher, and the hunt for unlocking new potions are fresh while not being unnecessarily grindy
Since you mentioned Dark Souls - I find the true consumables in Sekiro even more infuriating. If I use them and die, they are really wasted, as I cannot load a previous save. So I keep hoarding them not because I want to save them for stronger enemies, but because I will probably die after using them.
it was the same in dark souls with gold pine resin the irony is: as a good player you can make use of limited consumables to speed up certain fights etc. but as a good player you can manage them anyway, it should make fights easier for noobs too but it's as you said you end up hoarding them because one mistake and it's forever gone
@@brohvakiindova4452 You could farm gold pine resin - it wasn't gone forever. But I agree with the sentiment: any game that has temporary effect consumables like that should not make them literally finite (as in only a maximum number of them can be acquired in a playthrough).
@@tomgl6684 Yeah, which in turn only fires the hoarding aspect. Farming is a lot more effort than buying so you either spend absurd amounts of time farming, or use them very cautiously.
If you are a fighter, best way I love playing this game is just learning to fight in any situation. Shadow beasts are often located in caves, if you get them near the wall and you hit them, you can get them into a trap, where if you are hitting properly, they wont even have a chance to hit you, because each your hit the shadow beast back back to the wall that keeps the beast on one spot. Fire rain is kinda too expensive waste just for shadow beast. What I loved doing was, maybe it wasnt right xD using dragon snapper scrool to kill as much beasts I found and my health allowed me to. That could give me like 3 levels in a very short time.
I think you underestimated my stubbornness. I never use anything that has limited uses, it's either because I'm waiting for a really strong enemy (that doesn't exist) or I just think it's cooler if I do everything the way it was "intended". There's also my problem of wanting to have a even progression through the game and get weapon/armor upgrades reguraly, which is usually destroyed if you kill high level enemies with consumables. That's the reason I love Witcher and Dark Souls, because they regenerate it feels like developers designed the game around them. But that's just me. Anyway great video!
Lol I was legit looking for the dam lurker in gothic 1 but decided to take a break and look at youtube videos. First thing I see in this video, is the dam lurker. LMAO
I love Gothic 1 and 2 but I always stored scrolls or even potions (and I ate only cheapest food) and at the end of the game I had all those stuff for no reason... I guess there is another reason to play Gothic again - use everything just to have fun.
Honestly, I think the game is too easy if you use everything at your disposal. Not that 'easy' is a bad thing. I think the game is extremely fun even when it's easy, but personally, I think that after my 8th or 9th playthrough, I'll start setting myself restrictions. Such as, no melee, or no magic (besides what would prevent main story progression), No armor, or no potions, would also be fun challenges, I think. I've already had a bunch of playthroughs with 0 restrictions and it was very fun, but the opposite may be fun too.
Also, once you found and used a spell, there was always someone who sold it, and you could come back later to buy another one. That made experimenting a lot easier.
On my first couple of playthroughs it was exactly how you say. I used various scrolls to progress and kill hard enemies. But as I progressed as a player and got more experienced I was hoarding again. But it was differend from other games. In this case it was more about making it chalenging again and feeling satisfaction when I beat hard monster on low level.
Same here. Especially in NotR playing through the game without scrolls for me would've been incredibly frustrating at first. But nowadays whenever I play it (every few years or so with a mod like VarusBikerEdition that adds small stuff without breaking the game), I purposefully try to never use magic when playing a melee character and set my mana to 0 right at the start with cheats. It plays like a completely new game and by not having this cheesy play style I feel much more relation to the other characters in the world who also can't just summon a fire rain when they encounter a bunch of orcs. Tbh if I could change one thing in NotR I'd make scrolls cost 50% of runes' mana cost instead of just 5 mana. It would make these items still nice to have even for mages, but negate these completely ridiculous killing sprees on lvl 1-10. It would also be more rewarding in the midgame to finally be able to use more scrolls once you've accumulated enough rings, amulets or consumables to get to the right amount of mana.
@@couchpotatoe91 have you tried the g2 atarier edition? its a rebalance and slight adition to g2 notr. it has increased cost on scrolls to make them more balanced while still providing utility to nonmages. fire rain costs 60 mana for example wich u only gotta reach in 3-4 chapter without beeing a mage or hard minmaxing. its really good!
@@hulmhochberg8129 60 mana is pretty easy, you start with 10 mana so you only need 10 additional mana through any way (mushrooms, stoneplates, daron, coragons beer etc.) and the priest set which gives 40 mana as a set so chapter 2 you're there with no stress and no min maxing, you can easily get away with investing 10 points into mana too BUT yes it's still good so you can't cheese from level 1
@@brohvakiindova4452 ok, its technically the 2 chapter but you still have already solved the add on, got beliars claw and are just a small walk trough the valley of mines away from chapter 3. having fire rain at that point isnt as big of a boost anymore. i also think that the spell is more rare than in vanilla. i think i had like 5 or so in vanilla, while only 2 (with looking for them) in atarier. so i think my point still stands. i always used firerain at dexters banditcamp to get the xp before greg steals it. cant do that now anynore
In the end It still boils down to a knowledge, in other rpg's people don't know what lies ahead so they keep items. Here is literally the same, you say you already know what enemies are dangerous to spend items on. And spending items on an enemy that look dangerous you can in any rpg. And especially argument about Xsardas - you literally have preexisting knowledge about him, you can justify using powerful scrolls, so you cannot say it is intuitive game design that encourages unfamiliar player to not to hoard. I couldn't see the firm argument in your video, sorry. Personally playing gothic first time, it didn't translate to me at all who, what and when and where to use items, It's either wiki or some dialog suggesting using item: again - preexisting knowledge during interaction.
Regarding Xsardas' tower: You can't disregard his point because he used "preexisting knowledge" as not being good game design. Lore and worldbuilding is an important part of game design. Rewarding a player who paid attention to the story and world of the previous game, by allowing that to serve as hints to where good loot can be found is 100% intuitive game design. It's expected that if you're playing a sequel to a game, that you've played the original.
@@bsuns123123 I was tought that Intuitive means that thou lack knowledge and act according to your feelings. If you say that intuitive necessitates playing 1st game, you completely misunderstood what I had written or demonstrated how to disregard one's point. I did not attack or mention point in your reply.
@@Arson_Oakwood Something can be intuitive and require prior knowledge. Drop somebody into end game content in an RPG and thet won't make heads or tails of it. but if they played the game from the start they would easily be able to make sense of the mechanics. Same thing here, it's very intuitive if you've played the first game in he series, which you should, because its a sequel. Essentially, even if something needs context to be understood, it can still be intuitive if there is a general assumption you should have that context(Like knowing the first entry in the series when you're reading/watching/playing a sequel)
@@bsuns123123 it entirely depends on the context. Seeing frozen ice door and a fire scroll in front of it is intuitive if you have the prior knowledge of the properties of ice and fire. Saying that something is intuitive because the game is sequel and obviously no one plays fallout 3 without playing fallout 1 and 2 before is just dumb.
Another great thing about scrolls in Gothic 2 (at least, with NIght of the Raven) is their cost. Spell scrolls cost 5 mana, and you start the game with 10 mana. This means that even a completely non-magic focused character has access to scrolls. But also, if you play as a magic focused character, learning a spell costs LP, and casting it will be more expensive than the scroll. Even for spells you know, it can be useful to pop off sever scrolls when you know you will need to cast quickly without an opportunity to restore mana. Gothic 2 is such a well designed game.
Using fire rain on a single shadowbeast is such a waste though. You're not giving a very good example of how to use one of the rarest scrolls in the game. There's only, maybe, 2 fire rain scrolls in the first chapter, which is where you'll need them the most. And they can help you clear hordes of high experience enemies with a single cast. For example, the valley with the cave near Khorinis that is guarded by 7 wargs and 1 shadow beast - that 's 2400 experience, that you can take right away if you draw them and cast the spell properly before they kill you (might take a few save reloads). Otherwise, If not for that scroll, you'll be having a very hard time clearing that valley before chapter 3. Also, you give bad example of usig powerful transformation scrolls. Transformations are permanent, you only get back in human form when you decide to cancel the spell, so when transforming into a powerful creature you have to make the best of it and kill as many enmies as possible until you health is low enough and you're forced to go back in human form in order to heal. Transforming into a shadowbeast or a dragon snapper, just to kill a few bandints and then wasting the rest of the spell potetial by going back to human form, is a bad use of such spells! There's also a way to enter the old fortress in Gothic 1 without using the transfor into meatbug scroll. Turning left from the gate, there's a cliff you can climb on, to specific spot where the wall is destroyed and you jump down into the courtyard.
I almost feel like consumable should have an expiration date. It would kinda force you to use the item or else you would just waste it by not using it. And I bet it would lead to hilarious situation of you having to use the strongest spell scroll on the weakest enemy just because the spell scroll would rot in 2 minutes from now.
This is a great idea. It would also force you to go looking for something to use it on. Just think of it. You get a massively powerful scroll that can kill any demon. But it goes away in one in game day. Now you need to go on a quest to find the most powerful demon you can slay. It would push you to take risks. And lead to some really great stories.
but it makes 0 sense, its like nobody even thinks about immersion why would a scroll be usable one min then just magically rot literally a minute later? the head game of "oh will i need this for later? should i use it now?" are just that head games and strategy, taking that away is stupid and limits how others may chose to play due to the strange notion that actually having strategic choices is bad but forcing people to use scrolls or them being so abundant that strategy with them does not exist (yes in gothic 2 you can buy a shit ton in the first town not to mention how many given) is good. in almost every rpg you can train to avoid using consumables like this, the choice is there for those that want that strategy, if you are so powerful it dont really matter what you use and you are still like that the problem is with you not the game also id also argue you getting them in certain points to be used in certain areas just makes the game feel linear as its the obvious "proper" way to do it something that also kills the strategy and the whole "roleplaying" part
@@imalittletoxicjustalittle What if it's not an RPG where you can justify bad game design as "player choice"? What if it's an action game with consumables and the player doesn't use them at all? That's just a meaningless fluff-feature. I mean yeah, sure, "it's there for those who want it", but so are the subtitles and those aren't exactly game mechanics...
look into Outward, it has that system you mention with a lot of the food consumables rotting away, also needs like hunger/thirst/sleep/cold/warm etc. Personally I don't think it adds anything of value to the gameplay of a RPG, but I'm old school and the zenit of RPG for me were games like NWN or if more action oriented, Diablo 2. And on the 3rd person the Gothic games ofc.
@@imalittletoxicjustalittle I think having varying qualities of consumables could make a game more interesting. Imagine a merchant has different calibers of potions. Some expire in a day, others in a week, others at a certain story break in the game, like a chapter change, and still others are permanent. Obviously the more durable the item, the more it costs, so players could buy a TON of healing pots for a difficult area if they felt they needed them, but only because they're short term items that expire soon. As an alternative, instead of expiring over time, they could have other limits, like longer and longer cooldowns between each use. Another factor that games don't utilize is the environment. When falling off a cliff or jumping in a river, most gamers only think of the damage. But what if going underwater has a chance of destroying scrolls, since vellum and ink obviously don't do well in water. Or taking falling damage has a chance of breaking potion bottles, since glass is fragile. Various environmental factors in games could threaten consumables carried.
After 30 years of playing games, I wear my hoarding tendencies as a badge of honor! I pride myself on finishing games with every single health potion I have encountered tucked neatly in my inventory or stashes. Personally, I think it makes me a better gamer because I rarely feel like I need them these days. Half of the tactics I have learned are from trying tough fights over and over again refusing to use my consumables to win. At this point, it would probably trivialize every game I play if I started using my consumables.
Gothic 2 created many perfect opportunities to use consumables, because it was one of the few games which difficulty wasn't dumbed down for casual audience. Having an actual challenging content helps using consumables.
*Most players give up on games long before clocking them and with every single consumable hoarded away never to be used...ever* It's kinda a sad life being a game consumable
One of the most rewarding places to use a firerain scroll early on in the game is the undead tomb in the woods near the mercenary farm. You kill the three skeleton guards and then open the three chests while ignoring the skeletons that spawn, then run to the center and cast firerain, easy 5-6k xp
@@jarlfenrir I have done this myself many times, and I can't find any video showing it, but I remember I learned about it from a video so it's there somewhere
I never used scrolls very much because when I played as a mage, I would burn trough my magic nuking something from extreme range then running to the nearest bed to rest and repeat. But when there wasnt a bed nearby I would use my magic potions to refill. Fighting any large creature I would just summon a whole bunch of skeletons to overwhelm them. This tactic works on the dragon at the end as well. You go through alot of potions though for these boss fights. One tip I have for mages is, never eat your mushrooms/berries until you have maxed out the training you can get from the mage at the paladins castle in the mines. If you eat all the shrooms before then, you wont be able to train. Doing this will allow you to raise your magic pool even higher. And the bigger your magic pool the more creatures you can summon(or ice bolting things) before needing rest or using potions. Another tip for extra exp, you can kill paladins from extreme range with your icelance and they dont get mad at you. Any npc that isnt important to the quests or story you can kill this way without making anyone mad at you. I would kill peasant npcs in town by simply standing in their houses until they attacked me. You can also get 500xp from getting into town without having to bribe the guards or having the ticket. There is a way in but its obscure. Most people would probably never find it.
Funny thing - I found that Gothic 1 can become unstable if you have been hoarding too much. I found that if your Gothic 1 game is crashing on you without obvious reasons, you MAY want to empty your inventory into a chest. Also - trolls are ok, you can either stick to their butt (given how slowly they turn) or dodge as they are about to strike. Even if its fist goes through you, you shouldn't get hit.
A wise decision would be using scrolls when there are multiple enemies, because any enemy can be beaten 1v1 no damage, but when there's two and more and they attack simultaneously it becomes much harder to do so. Orcs in the valley of mine, bandits at Onar's farm etc.
What a cool perspective! I've never looked at it like that. And sadly, I never realizes this when playing the game. I always went the harder route without ever realizing I could have shrunk or destroyed these big beasts. I kept dying and reloading over and over again...
You don't need the meatbug scroll to pass through that gate in Gothic 1. Jumping into the rocks near the clif is fairly simple and you then run over the gate. No cheats needed, even looks natural.
I think TES 4 Oblivion really did change how RPG games are made. With the fast travel and leveled creatures, it was the start of RPG games being simplified to what we have today. Not to throw shade on Oblivion. It is a superb game. But it was a herald for things to come.
Funnily enough you do not need to even get close enough to the goblins to take the crossbow for dragomir. But that is something that is unlikely to be noticed by the player on an early playthrough. It would also be unlikely you would actually look for the crossbow early anyways, since you just don't get a great enough hint of where you could find it i suppose. I can relate to the whole hoarding items issue, i keep doing this even if i play through the game multiple times and know perfectly well whether i am prepared for a fight or not. In gothic 2 i only really used scrolls to kill dragons or get light. If you are a mage you use runes anyways. It is annoying but also not really a severe issue since you can just finish the game regardless. If you were softlocked because you used a consumable too early, that would be a huge issue in comparison.
There is some truth in it but god it was always such a nightmare to wait with the potions of strenght or dexterity until it was more lucrative to drink them. Drinking them always makes me regret. If i drink too early - "soon i will find a weapon that will require 1 point of strenght more and ill be forced to wait long before ill be able to use it". If i drink too late - "basically no difference, i just played all the game without it -,-"
Okay, so you are saying that the way to make consumables be actually consumed is to A) have alternate paths to reach the same goal where you'd use one, B) foreshadowing potential uses for them, and C) by making the use worthwhile via exp or other stuff. Took you sweet time to get there xD.
I get sick of carting round potions in elder scrolls thinking I'll use that and never do even when the time is right it just sits there taking up 1 cary weight or whatever and every 1 carry weight adds up when looting things
Seems like the idea is that the game let's you know who the strong enemies are. I always had fun with scrolls and potions in Morrowind because I new that it would only require a little grind to make the item back if I needed it
@@schwarzesfleisch5809 я шучу. Просто в Польше игра популярнее чем в Германии. Конечно, игра немецкая и главный герой немец т.к. в его лексиконе присутствуют немецкие поговорки.
Just found this video after finishing Gothic 1 with over 370 pots of +100hp (the best ones) and another roughly 700 of +50/+75hp sitting in my inventory. I was rather eating blueberries, rice, etc. all the time to "save" pots for later chapters. Once I realized I am getting to an endgame, I finally started using pots, but I just had sooooo many.
I am just on my one of many playthroughs of Gothit 2 NOTR :D Love this game! I am doing pure mage build, so only invest LP in Mana. After you get to know the game it is totaly doable, and also thanks to scrolls! This is how You design a game! Any other design I cant think of is Arcanum, also very well though out game. And also still playing a 20 year old game is a mark thas You mad a bloody good game! :D (Sorry for bad english I get to emotional :D)
no clue if you already did a video on this, but i think much of this ties in with how gothic lets you decide things. you cant control the large scheme (as in: are you evil or are you good, which ending do you get), but it lets you decide HOW you do things. do you knock down that guy? do you use a scroll? getting into the harbor city has at least 5 effective and doable ways, none of which really make all that much difference, you get in, but it gives you power over how you play the game - in contrast to many games that simply offer a different dialogue option and base the whole ending around it.
Scrolls are just the beta version for Mages to try out what kind of spell do they want to wield on regular basis and what rune do they need to purchase/make.
Gothic is something else, and it was my first big tragedy in the world of gaming!!! as a child i was only used to Blizzard/microsoft (WC1,2,3 and AOE 1,2), then after playing Gothic 1 and 2 which where incredible and Gothic 3 which was different but still awsome i had to learn that not every studio will be there for ever. at that time i didn´t knew about the beef between piranha byte and Jowood so i was waiting fpr gothic 4 but when Arcadia came out i realized that Gothing will never get a worth succesor. looking back it still makes me sad thinking what could have been. still good memories!
what do you mean? elex 2 is coming up soon, and yes while gothic is dead they still make roughly the same kinds of games I too think risen 1 was the last really good game from them but many people really enjoy elex
Also, one thing I can add about Gothic 2 as an old school fan of the game (I played 17 times through it back in the days circa 2003-2004) - the German voiceover is a pure gold. I wonder if there's any way to play it with German sound and English text. I think it is, because I played it with Russian text and German sound, but it was before Steam even existed 😁
"you will never need them so feel free to use them whenever it seems appropriate" Bro I think you missed the point of hoarding: I'm never gonna use them if there's an alternative way to do it.
Best use for fire rain scrolls was around the castle of the valley - drink some speed potion first and then cast and start running - area of effect will move with you for the duration of the cast. This way you can clean most Orks besieging the castle in 3 scrolls
This was one of the reasons why I enjoyed Archolos so much it almost surpassed Gothic 2 for me. Back when I played the original games, I had that hoarding mentality. and postponed some challenges even though I had in my inventory the perfect tools for facing them. I never even used a transformation scroll in G1 and G2. When playing Archolos, on the other hand, I took the approach you talk about in this video. And something you didn't touch upon is the feeling you get when you figure out a way to use your scrolls in a given situation to get an outcome that would be unimaginable without them at low levels. I'll just say, it's no wonder these games (G1, G2 and now Archolos) are my favorite games of all time in any genre.
However, you didn't explain how you learned taking all the trophies from the monsters at lower lvls. If you nuke a Shadowbeast with a scroll, you won't be able to take its horn because there is no way you'd have the ability to do it such early in the game.
Gothic 2 eternally stands above the rest as far as progression design goes. Limited by the technology of its time, it definitely was not a limiter to how you played the game. The game is heavily curated and painstakingly balanced manually. Scrolls that are obviously WAY overpowered being offered to you in the first chapter of the game. You can kill monsters you would not be able to kill before thirty levels later.. yet the quest is offered at a time you would never be able to do so. Kill the Black troll? Technically you can do that at level 1, by just rushing STRAIGHT up to the Troll as he does the aggro animation and circling around him, landing a hit or two as he turns around slower than you can run around him. However that is not a design and I am certain it was not intended to defeat him this way (this can be done on any troll). Despite its limitations, the way the game is balanced makes it stand miles above any rubbish Bethesda pushes out. How people accept this nonsense of a world leveling with you is beyond me. Clearly acceptable only by people who have not experienced the frustration, yet incredibly rewarding when successful, boiling in you as you try to battle something in your way that is not designed for your low level to beat. The items and gold rewarded for this success is also often balanced around your later levels, which makes them ALL the sweeter if you manage it early. I can only pray that some old school designers stand up and say enough is enough soon. There's so much missing in modern games. So much so that I actually play exclusively old ones right now.. with only a few notable exceptions.
Bethesda is more popular because the general public is dumb, and people want to think as little as possible and steamroll through games feeling invincible. Gothic is the opposite of that.(at elast until you become a walking god at the end)
Gothic 1 didn't require you to have a meatbug transformation scroll. It actually provided you with one when needed. Don't remember how exactly, maybe that guy you go to the monastery with gives you or you may find some in a cave below, and he hints that you shall go there, but you definitely could not have one on you and still pass that segment. Even in Gothic 1 there were no places were you could stuck due to scroll being used earlied. What a great game.
As a mage you can actually craft Runes from spells which can be used as often as you'd like as long as you have enough Mana to cast that specific spell
@@davidhranec4222 I once did a bow mage, it was the easiest playthrough I ever had, used master sword and composite bow or something for first two chapters, then made a smooth transition into magic I think next time I'll go 2H mage, (2H because of the mage staves) oh btw. the game punish you for wasting scrolls as a mage because you need them to create runes, so you can theoretically hard lock you out of progression
Ain't nothing stopping me form hording items in Gothic. There's just something about having an absolute filled inventory at the end of the game with items that would made it much easier sometimes. Or killing an enemy only with the sword where even the game says that you need to use an item. Gothic for me is the journey of being the baddest mf in the world. And i like a good challenge and have no problem fighting an enemy for over an hour and dying 100s of times. Because the rewarding feeling when you finally win the fight is just so nice. But of course there is no right way to play Gothic. Everyone should enjoy the game their way. Doesn't matter if it's rushing tru the game or finishing the game on 100% and picking up every item possible. That's the beauty of gothic, now go make your own adventure
regenerating consumables would kill my emersion, it just about makes sense in dark souls but for an rpg with grounded mechanics it makes no sense and the dilemma of consumables as in they re 100% needed in almost every rpg iv played is down to the player not training enough and trying to run through the game which is on you every good rpg requires questing/grinding
also just let me wreck you're false sense of balance with those scrolls, there is a guy at the start you can buy a shit ton of scrolls of that allow you to transform into nearly invincible creatures and you can wipe the first area in 10 mins and become half the level cap lmao
lol, I kept on hitting the first dragon snapper over 1h with a low tier weapon. Never wasted a single scroll on an enemy. Kept on hoarding items and scrolls till the very end.
Damn, these videos are so insightful. Gives me a new appreciation for games in general. So many game mechanics have a domino effect on how the player interacts with the game. Amazing work! Any game developer would be lucky to have you on there team.
I have usually hoarded the spell scrolls, and instead "solved" the game by patiently killing all the creatures of the world in order of difficulty. I enjoy this process.
Instead of using scroll destroy undead you can simply use potion to increase your running speed. Actually the best thing in whole game xD Cheap, renewable and useful.
Hey everyone, I'd like to introduce you to MB, the newest member of the Gamedev Adventures team. He's an avid gamer and video editor who helped make this video possible.
Hi Gamedev Adventures, would you be interested in some sort of collaboration? If yes, feel free to email me zubkovmaksym@gmail.com. Great video!
I think part of the problem stems from being forced into fights. If players can pick and choose where to make a stand that helps.
Gothic 2 is best example of hoarding items. Almost all players never use scrolls saving it for later.
Agree
This
I would agree, but at the same time I think it benefits the most from the knowledge of what you are facing and how powerful all the tools (scrolls etc) are. 2nd Playthrough is a complete blast. The non-respawning enemies and fixed loot helps a lot.
I think you missed the point. The point is G2 handles hoarding the best one can. It gives you consumables, it rewards you for it, it gives and warns you about opportunities to use them, but at the same time you are not punished for hoarding or wasting them. No matter what you do, there will always be people who hoard finite resources, but G2 deals with it perfectly.
Gothic makes hoarding items, but obły for veterans that knows the game. For 1st playtrougth deals with it perfectly
In other words, Gothic 1 + 2 are the best games ever made.
G2 and Risen
Couldn't agree more. Now go play G2:Chronicles of Myrtana:Archolos. You won't regret.
Gothic was wayyyyyy ahead of its time. Even today some things Gothic did better than modern RPG'S
Yesssssss!!!
Try archolos, it's continuation
Using firerain on A SINGLE shawdowbeast feels simply unnatural and disgusting
Awesome content otherwise =)
Agreed, when he did that I think my eye twitched a bit.
The destroy undead scrolls used on the goblin skeletons too. Seriously, use ice arrow scrolls :P
or even flame arrow scrolls.....they're THAT weak.
Using it at the orc ring around the castle "old camp" is just satisfying af :D
@@Nobbi_Habogs Don't forget to drink some sprint potion before and have a few of firerain scrolls. That'll be fast.
your point is valid but the content is shit otherwise. He's trying to make Gothic into something it isn't cause he's all grown up and wants to milk money off of fans that would click on his bullshit cause it involves Gothic. Hid points are all dumb, as explained in my big reply to this video.
If I remember correctly before needing meetbug scroll in gothic1, Gorn asks you to follow him and clear the area so nothing comes from behind. In the chest where it takes you, you can find meetbug scrolls. I think that was made intentionally and it didn't matter if you had them before going to do this quest or not.
But what if you used your powerful scrolls earlier to get to this area, and you claimed and wasted this scroll a long time ago? :P
you still might end up in same situation like me, who cleared cave in secnd chapter and used scroll to do some random shit, then spend couple of hours looking for replacement. My only luck is that devs made really obvious that you have to use scroll even when you found nothing.
@@jarlfenrir I think the chest containing the scrolls is unopenable untill that moment in the game, though I might be wrong.
@@Zamsky39 I'm pretty sure there are no "unopenable" chests in gothic. And @proximus in his comment above says that he actually used this scroll in chapter 2
@@jarlfenrir
There are unopenable chests in the besieged castle in "Gothic II", they require keys that don't exist in the game.
One of the dumbest feelings I've ever had in video games is using a rare consumable on a tough enemy only to THEN be immediately faced with the MUCH HARDER boss. Pretty sure that's what started the single traumatizing event that started the whole hoarding plague lol
Yep, been there, now my inventory stays full.
I hoarded everything in sight in Gothic games though... and usually ate cooked meat instead of using health pots, thus ending the game loaded with potions that were never used lol
Omg yes, making the journey harder for oneself trying to be prepared for an apocalypse just in case haha! Gothic surely makes you approach leveling and roaming differently
I don't think I used a single health potion while playing Through Gothic. Takes about 20 bowls of rice to heal to full though.
@@jasperzanovich2504 haha true. There are many alternative ways to replenish Health. And of course, the devs did it for a good reason. A lot of things in this game were rather brilliantly & purposefully designed, even if at first glance they may seem banal.
To me, Gothic1/2 are the few RPGs which I consider to be the closest to what I consider a "true RPG". All the subtle systems and sub-systems, mechanics, and other details, make Gothic an extremely pleasant RPG series to play. Nobody realises how important these tiny subtle systems are until they actually play Gothic, or a Gothic-like game.
@@jasperzanovich2504 nameless hero died of constipation 3 weeks later xD
@@meyes1098 It probably didn't help that he went several weeks without sleep.
The ability to break out of the restrictive balancing curve is truly what makes scrolls in Gothic great. Ice block, fire rain, transformations, etc.
Elex is worse at that, because the consumables are also balanced. Summoned drones quickly die to enemies, Grenades do barely more damage than a regular attack, and so on. That's also probably a key reason why many people complain about it being too clunky/difficult - you don't have the occasional cheats that let you skip some steps.
For sure. "Balanced" consumables usually just makes them useless. Thats too bad to hear about Elex though. I've only played the Gothic and Risen series so I was thinking of playing Elix at some point. Not that one small issue is going to stop me though.
Elex does have the whacky janky 'shortcuts' though. Ranged weaponry is ridiculously overpowered, making combat trivial. Oh, i do wish that the devs would finally make combat somewhat bearable. It seems like it is getting worse than in Gothic 1 which is both sad and hilarious at the same time, you would think they would have learned something in 20 years of development.
@@fartloudYT Outlaws or Clerics?
I keep my rain of fire for 2 areas. The bandit camp helmed by Dexter and Valley of mines. I love how 1-2 scrolls wipe out the entire army of Orcs surrounding the castle. I just run around the castle to let them chase me till the ram, then use rain of fire on the ram.
I usually use Diego to virtually clear out the Valley Of Mines in Chapter 2. Just aggro everything and step backwards, you are invincible to melee attacks when stepping backwards. Diego will mow down everything with his bow. Massive XP boost.
@@kooroshrostami27 that feels like abusing invulnerable npcs. Whatever suits you i guess
@@lyynad6245 He isn't invulnerable, he can die. He just won't die if you aggro the enemies.
back then i used fire rain on dragons because for soem reason they just stopped moving on my pc after that
@@kooroshrostami27 then ur abusing the invincibility frames during backstep. I do prefer your method over just using a scroll but I'd probably just try to become so powerful that I can 1-hit each orc.
I've yet to accomplish it but I did manage to wipe out more than half of the orcs in the valley (melee build) before dying, once. Is it possible? Not sure. With the DLC it might be, I only played through the DLC once before accidentally losing my savefile, so I'm not sure.
i wish TES would go back to a more rpg-ish type of game.. at least with dialog
skyrim was nice but my god the dialog was bland and the characters blander
morrowind all day!
@@bidenonabender5903 Morrowind hit a good balance and had the most outlandish and therefore subjectivly interesting setting for sure.
@@Phoenix-qv9hg 100%, i always missed that big mushrooms, and the uniqe creatures like the Alit, the Guar or just the Silt Strider...
but another huge part that made morrowind better than what came after was the magic system, being able to creat own spells was so great and i still don´t understand how these dumbasses could leave such a great feature out when they made oblivion and skyrim.
made it literally impossible to play as a mage (for me) because i always got reminded how limited this class was compared to morrowind.
I think another factor that comes into play is that there's a limited amount of *everything* - including enemies. Once you've killed an enemy that's blocking your path that path is unblocked forever, so you never feel like you've wasted an item.
IMO, using finite resources to overcome finite challenges adds a sort of puzzle element to the game, and I love it.
I don't think the meatbug transformation would convince anyone to start hoarding. The quest is well designed in that you loot the spell scroll about 30 seconds before you're required to use it. Same with the shrink scroll you are intended to use on the troll with Diego.
Agreed, it was more like a learning opportunity for players to start thinking about using scrolls to solve problems
If it happened early in the game it would have that effect, but I agree with you. Instead I think it showcased the utility of scrolls you might have ignored.
Some areas have ominous sounds as well, especially shadowbeast caves (although the skeletons and splotches of blood probably should be hint enough)
Gothic 2 was such a fun time, wish I could delete memories and replay
Look up Legend of Ahssûn, it's a Gothic 2 mod, maybe the best one yet.
@@kouron Thanks for the recommendation, that actually looks incredibly!
I can also recommend Chronicles of Myrtana: Archolos
If you liked gothic 1 and 2, chronicles of myrtana: archolos is must play for you
I replay it every few years, and I still have lots of fun every time i play
i actually loved the meatbug quest in gothic 1. it just made me soo immersed!
Why can't you just admit that you are sexually attracted to meatbugs?
The fire-rain scroll is completely busted. The castle (at 5:37) is completely surrounded by orcs, and when you first come there, you most likely can't beat even one regular orc in melee combat, let alone that many, let alone the shamans and countless elite warriors. However, you can use a speed potion to outrun them, and you can make them follow you. Once you start losing a few, you have to run in a circle to get them to chase you again. If you do it right, you can get every single orc around the castle to come after you. Now you just have to get onto a place they can't follow you to, like by climbing on their tents.
You will need 2 fire rain scrolls, but you can clear the entire area completely. It gives you a whole bunch of level ups and tons of orc weapons that you can sell. They come back in later chapters, where you can repeat this.
It's just quite immersion breaking, because the paladins will still act as if they're stuck at the castle and surrounded by orcs, even when they could just stroll back to Khorinis unarmed and be fine. Also, if you open the gates, they still get overrun by newly spawned orcs.
hahah true. I actually did something similar, but I instead abused the castle ledges to snipe every orc. And the few that remained I simply killed in close-quarters. Not sure how much faster your method is. I'd have to try it someday. Definitely cooler than killing each orc one-by-one!
That is indeed a good point. Personally i'd appreciated of they implemented something to counteract that cheese. But i assume they had the same thought about that situation and decided to let the player be able to do that.
I actively try to avoid the "too good to use" or the hoarding mentality. Hoarding has never, ever paid off in 20 years of gaming for me, and eventually you learn from that and overcome the compulsion. You think it's smart when you're doing it, but 97.5 times out of 100 you're screwing yourself over and will just end the game with a ton of unused consumables when you could've had a much easier time.
that meow on 5:22 ...
Ur videos are underrated. Keep up the good work!
Witcher 3 did a pretty good job too, potions are useful and powerful, and you only need to unlock them once, afterward, you can simply replenish them all by taking a rest
@@itarH at least it encourages me to actually use them whenever i can, and they make the game more fun, and there are potions for almost every occasions, and it made me feel like an actual witcher, and the hunt for unlocking new potions are fresh while not being unnecessarily grindy
@@puppykitten4779For some reason i only used potions in my 2nd playthrough in witcher 3 on a regular basis 😂
Since you mentioned Dark Souls - I find the true consumables in Sekiro even more infuriating. If I use them and die, they are really wasted, as I cannot load a previous save. So I keep hoarding them not because I want to save them for stronger enemies, but because I will probably die after using them.
it was the same in dark souls with gold pine resin
the irony is: as a good player you can make use of limited consumables to speed up certain fights etc. but as a good player you can manage them anyway, it should make fights easier for noobs too but it's as you said you end up hoarding them because one mistake and it's forever gone
@@brohvakiindova4452 You could farm gold pine resin - it wasn't gone forever.
But I agree with the sentiment: any game that has temporary effect consumables like that should not make them literally finite (as in only a maximum number of them can be acquired in a playthrough).
@@tomgl6684 Yeah, which in turn only fires the hoarding aspect. Farming is a lot more effort than buying so you either spend absurd amounts of time farming, or use them very cautiously.
If you are a fighter, best way I love playing this game is just learning to fight in any situation. Shadow beasts are often located in caves, if you get them near the wall and you hit them, you can get them into a trap, where if you are hitting properly, they wont even have a chance to hit you, because each your hit the shadow beast back back to the wall that keeps the beast on one spot. Fire rain is kinda too expensive waste just for shadow beast. What I loved doing was, maybe it wasnt right xD using dragon snapper scrool to kill as much beasts I found and my health allowed me to. That could give me like 3 levels in a very short time.
I think you underestimated my stubbornness.
I never use anything that has limited uses, it's either because I'm waiting for a really strong enemy (that doesn't exist) or I just think it's cooler if I do everything the way it was "intended".
There's also my problem of wanting to have a even progression through the game and get weapon/armor upgrades reguraly, which is usually destroyed if you kill high level enemies with consumables.
That's the reason I love Witcher and Dark Souls, because they regenerate it feels like developers designed the game around them.
But that's just me.
Anyway great video!
Lol I was legit looking for the dam lurker in gothic 1 but decided to take a break and look at youtube videos.
First thing I see in this video, is the dam lurker. LMAO
3:35 Sorry but using fire rain on single shadowbeast is a waste.
I love Gothic 1 and 2 but I always stored scrolls or even potions (and I ate only cheapest food) and at the end of the game I had all those stuff for no reason... I guess there is another reason to play Gothic again - use everything just to have fun.
Honestly, I think the game is too easy if you use everything at your disposal. Not that 'easy' is a bad thing. I think the game is extremely fun even when it's easy, but personally, I think that after my 8th or 9th playthrough, I'll start setting myself restrictions. Such as, no melee, or no magic (besides what would prevent main story progression),
No armor, or no potions, would also be fun challenges, I think. I've already had a bunch of playthroughs with 0 restrictions and it was very fun, but the opposite may be fun too.
Also, once you found and used a spell, there was always someone who sold it, and you could come back later to buy another one. That made experimenting a lot easier.
On my first couple of playthroughs it was exactly how you say. I used various scrolls to progress and kill hard enemies. But as I progressed as a player and got more experienced I was hoarding again. But it was differend from other games. In this case it was more about making it chalenging again and feeling satisfaction when I beat hard monster on low level.
Same here. Especially in NotR playing through the game without scrolls for me would've been incredibly frustrating at first.
But nowadays whenever I play it (every few years or so with a mod like VarusBikerEdition that adds small stuff without breaking the game), I purposefully try to never use magic when playing a melee character and set my mana to 0 right at the start with cheats. It plays like a completely new game and by not having this cheesy play style I feel much more relation to the other characters in the world who also can't just summon a fire rain when they encounter a bunch of orcs.
Tbh if I could change one thing in NotR I'd make scrolls cost 50% of runes' mana cost instead of just 5 mana. It would make these items still nice to have even for mages, but negate these completely ridiculous killing sprees on lvl 1-10.
It would also be more rewarding in the midgame to finally be able to use more scrolls once you've accumulated enough rings, amulets or consumables to get to the right amount of mana.
@@couchpotatoe91 have you tried the g2 atarier edition? its a rebalance and slight adition to g2 notr. it has increased cost on scrolls to make them more balanced while still providing utility to nonmages. fire rain costs 60 mana for example wich u only gotta reach in 3-4 chapter without beeing a mage or hard minmaxing. its really good!
@@hulmhochberg8129 Actually no, but I've heard of it. I'll keep it in mind for my next playthrough!
@@hulmhochberg8129 60 mana is pretty easy, you start with 10 mana so you only need 10 additional mana through any way (mushrooms, stoneplates, daron, coragons beer etc.) and the priest set which gives 40 mana as a set
so chapter 2 you're there with no stress and no min maxing, you can easily get away with investing 10 points into mana too
BUT yes it's still good so you can't cheese from level 1
@@brohvakiindova4452 ok, its technically the 2 chapter but you still have already solved the add on, got beliars claw and are just a small walk trough the valley of mines away from chapter 3. having fire rain at that point isnt as big of a boost anymore. i also think that the spell is more rare than in vanilla. i think i had like 5 or so in vanilla, while only 2 (with looking for them) in atarier. so i think my point still stands. i always used firerain at dexters banditcamp to get the xp before greg steals it. cant do that now anynore
You find the meatbug scroll in the nearby chest which is also a hint on how to progress. You have to go to that chest with Gorn iirc.
yep, gorn wants to have clear back and will make the player go down there with him first
In the end It still boils down to a knowledge, in other rpg's people don't know what lies ahead so they keep items. Here is literally the same, you say you already know what enemies are dangerous to spend items on. And spending items on an enemy that look dangerous you can in any rpg. And especially argument about Xsardas - you literally have preexisting knowledge about him, you can justify using powerful scrolls, so you cannot say it is intuitive game design that encourages unfamiliar player to not to hoard. I couldn't see the firm argument in your video, sorry. Personally playing gothic first time, it didn't translate to me at all who, what and when and where to use items, It's either wiki or some dialog suggesting using item: again - preexisting knowledge during interaction.
Regarding Xsardas' tower: You can't disregard his point because he used "preexisting knowledge" as not being good game design. Lore and worldbuilding is an important part of game design. Rewarding a player who paid attention to the story and world of the previous game, by allowing that to serve as hints to where good loot can be found is 100% intuitive game design. It's expected that if you're playing a sequel to a game, that you've played the original.
@@bsuns123123 I was tought that Intuitive means that thou lack knowledge and act according to your feelings. If you say that intuitive necessitates playing 1st game, you completely misunderstood what I had written or demonstrated how to disregard one's point. I did not attack or mention point in your reply.
@@Arson_Oakwood Something can be intuitive and require prior knowledge. Drop somebody into end game content in an RPG and thet won't make heads or tails of it. but if they played the game from the start they would easily be able to make sense of the mechanics.
Same thing here, it's very intuitive if you've played the first game in he series, which you should, because its a sequel.
Essentially, even if something needs context to be understood, it can still be intuitive if there is a general assumption you should have that context(Like knowing the first entry in the series when you're reading/watching/playing a sequel)
@@bsuns123123 lol what? So to properly enjoy Skyrim it is expected for you to play every ES game starting from arena? It’s a complete nonsequitor.
@@bsuns123123 it entirely depends on the context. Seeing frozen ice door and a fire scroll in front of it is intuitive if you have the prior knowledge of the properties of ice and fire. Saying that something is intuitive because the game is sequel and obviously no one plays fallout 3 without playing fallout 1 and 2 before is just dumb.
Another great thing about scrolls in Gothic 2 (at least, with NIght of the Raven) is their cost.
Spell scrolls cost 5 mana, and you start the game with 10 mana. This means that even a completely non-magic focused character has access to scrolls.
But also, if you play as a magic focused character, learning a spell costs LP, and casting it will be more expensive than the scroll. Even for spells you know, it can be useful to pop off sever scrolls when you know you will need to cast quickly without an opportunity to restore mana.
Gothic 2 is such a well designed game.
Using fire rain on a single shadowbeast is such a waste though. You're not giving a very good example of how to use one of the rarest scrolls in the game. There's only, maybe, 2 fire rain scrolls in the first chapter, which is where you'll need them the most. And they can help you clear hordes of high experience enemies with a single cast. For example, the valley with the cave near Khorinis that is guarded by 7 wargs and 1 shadow beast - that 's 2400 experience, that you can take right away if you draw them and cast the spell properly before they kill you (might take a few save reloads). Otherwise, If not for that scroll, you'll be having a very hard time clearing that valley before chapter 3. Also, you give bad example of usig powerful transformation scrolls. Transformations are permanent, you only get back in human form when you decide to cancel the spell, so when transforming into a powerful creature you have to make the best of it and kill as many enmies as possible until you health is low enough and you're forced to go back in human form in order to heal. Transforming into a shadowbeast or a dragon snapper, just to kill a few bandints and then wasting the rest of the spell potetial by going back to human form, is a bad use of such spells!
There's also a way to enter the old fortress in Gothic 1 without using the transfor into meatbug scroll. Turning left from the gate, there's a cliff you can climb on, to specific spot where the wall is destroyed and you jump down into the courtyard.
I almost feel like consumable should have an expiration date. It would kinda force you to use the item or else you would just waste it by not using it. And I bet it would lead to hilarious situation of you having to use the strongest spell scroll on the weakest enemy just because the spell scroll would rot in 2 minutes from now.
This is a great idea. It would also force you to go looking for something to use it on. Just think of it. You get a massively powerful scroll that can kill any demon. But it goes away in one in game day. Now you need to go on a quest to find the most powerful demon you can slay. It would push you to take risks. And lead to some really great stories.
but it makes 0 sense, its like nobody even thinks about immersion why would a scroll be usable one min then just magically rot literally a minute later? the head game of "oh will i need this for later? should i use it now?" are just that head games and strategy, taking that away is stupid and limits how others may chose to play due to the strange notion that actually having strategic choices is bad but forcing people to use scrolls or them being so abundant that strategy with them does not exist (yes in gothic 2 you can buy a shit ton in the first town not to mention how many given) is good.
in almost every rpg you can train to avoid using consumables like this, the choice is there for those that want that strategy, if you are so powerful it dont really matter what you use and you are still like that the problem is with you not the game also id also argue you getting them in certain points to be used in certain areas just makes the game feel linear as its the obvious "proper" way to do it something that also kills the strategy and the whole "roleplaying" part
@@imalittletoxicjustalittle What if it's not an RPG where you can justify bad game design as "player choice"? What if it's an action game with consumables and the player doesn't use them at all? That's just a meaningless fluff-feature. I mean yeah, sure, "it's there for those who want it", but so are the subtitles and those aren't exactly game mechanics...
look into Outward, it has that system you mention with a lot of the food consumables rotting away, also needs like hunger/thirst/sleep/cold/warm etc. Personally I don't think it adds anything of value to the gameplay of a RPG, but I'm old school and the zenit of RPG for me were games like NWN or if more action oriented, Diablo 2. And on the 3rd person the Gothic games ofc.
@@imalittletoxicjustalittle I think having varying qualities of consumables could make a game more interesting.
Imagine a merchant has different calibers of potions. Some expire in a day, others in a week, others at a certain story break in the game, like a chapter change, and still others are permanent. Obviously the more durable the item, the more it costs, so players could buy a TON of healing pots for a difficult area if they felt they needed them, but only because they're short term items that expire soon. As an alternative, instead of expiring over time, they could have other limits, like longer and longer cooldowns between each use.
Another factor that games don't utilize is the environment. When falling off a cliff or jumping in a river, most gamers only think of the damage. But what if going underwater has a chance of destroying scrolls, since vellum and ink obviously don't do well in water. Or taking falling damage has a chance of breaking potion bottles, since glass is fragile. Various environmental factors in games could threaten consumables carried.
Gothic 2 has a special in my heart for being the game that introduced me to all the great things an RPG can be in my teenage years.
1:58 nooo you should have kept running around the map farming xp with that shadowbeast scroll :o great video!
After 30 years of playing games, I wear my hoarding tendencies as a badge of honor! I pride myself on finishing games with every single health potion I have encountered tucked neatly in my inventory or stashes. Personally, I think it makes me a better gamer because I rarely feel like I need them these days. Half of the tactics I have learned are from trying tough fights over and over again refusing to use my consumables to win. At this point, it would probably trivialize every game I play if I started using my consumables.
1 firball and a undead goblin dies too. you dont need the OP scrolls^^
Gothic 2 created many perfect opportunities to use consumables, because it was one of the few games which difficulty wasn't dumbed down for casual audience. Having an actual challenging content helps using consumables.
*Most players give up on games long before clocking them and with every single consumable hoarded away never to be used...ever*
It's kinda a sad life being a game consumable
The sound shadowbeast made when you killed her made me laugh.
One of the most rewarding places to use a firerain scroll early on in the game is the undead tomb in the woods near the mercenary farm. You kill the three skeleton guards and then open the three chests while ignoring the skeletons that spawn, then run to the center and cast firerain, easy 5-6k xp
Actually, In the quest with Gorn in Gothic 1 you can simply go through rocks on the right and dont need scrolls, but I agree with everything you said.
Never seen that being done! Must try next time. Or have you some video showing this?
@@jarlfenrir I have done this myself many times, and I can't find any video showing it, but I remember I learned about it from a video so it's there somewhere
@@jarlfenrir It helps having acrobatics to make the jump. Jump at the rock and you will be surprised how far up you get.
I never used scrolls very much because when I played as a mage, I would burn trough my magic nuking something from extreme range then running to the nearest bed to rest and repeat. But when there wasnt a bed nearby I would use my magic potions to refill. Fighting any large creature I would just summon a whole bunch of skeletons to overwhelm them. This tactic works on the dragon at the end as well. You go through alot of potions though for these boss fights.
One tip I have for mages is, never eat your mushrooms/berries until you have maxed out the training you can get from the mage at the paladins castle in the mines. If you eat all the shrooms before then, you wont be able to train. Doing this will allow you to raise your magic pool even higher. And the bigger your magic pool the more creatures you can summon(or ice bolting things) before needing rest or using potions.
Another tip for extra exp, you can kill paladins from extreme range with your icelance and they dont get mad at you. Any npc that isnt important to the quests or story you can kill this way without making anyone mad at you. I would kill peasant npcs in town by simply standing in their houses until they attacked me.
You can also get 500xp from getting into town without having to bribe the guards or having the ticket. There is a way in but its obscure. Most people would probably never find it.
I never use limited consumables in any game.
I love Estus flasks.
8:48
you can just jump on the big rock right next to the gate and get in that way without the scroll. it doesn't require any glitching or anything.
But... instead of using the rock to get in you could turn into a meatbug and use your size to get in. ;D
that jump kinda is a glitch
Funny thing - I found that Gothic 1 can become unstable if you have been hoarding too much. I found that if your Gothic 1 game is crashing on you without obvious reasons, you MAY want to empty your inventory into a chest.
Also - trolls are ok, you can either stick to their butt (given how slowly they turn) or dodge as they are about to strike. Even if its fist goes through you, you shouldn't get hit.
A wise decision would be using scrolls when there are multiple enemies, because any enemy can be beaten 1v1 no damage, but when there's two and more and they attack simultaneously it becomes much harder to do so. Orcs in the valley of mine, bandits at Onar's farm etc.
What a cool perspective! I've never looked at it like that. And sadly, I never realizes this when playing the game. I always went the harder route without ever realizing I could have shrunk or destroyed these big beasts. I kept dying and reloading over and over again...
In this video I learned that shrinking is the #1 OP as f*ck spell 🙏😰
Fantastic video!
You don't need the meatbug scroll to pass through that gate in Gothic 1. Jumping into the rocks near the clif is fairly simple and you then run over the gate. No cheats needed, even looks natural.
I think TES 4 Oblivion really did change how RPG games are made.
With the fast travel and leveled creatures, it was the start of RPG games being simplified to what we have today.
Not to throw shade on Oblivion. It is a superb game. But it was a herald for things to come.
using rain of fire for a shadow beast absolutly make me anxious even watching it.
Man I miss those times when I played Gothic 1 and 2. A Soulsy experience truly ahead of its time.
Funnily enough you do not need to even get close enough to the goblins to take the crossbow for dragomir. But that is something that is unlikely to be noticed by the player on an early playthrough. It would also be unlikely you would actually look for the crossbow early anyways, since you just don't get a great enough hint of where you could find it i suppose.
I can relate to the whole hoarding items issue, i keep doing this even if i play through the game multiple times and know perfectly well whether i am prepared for a fight or not. In gothic 2 i only really used scrolls to kill dragons or get light. If you are a mage you use runes anyways. It is annoying but also not really a severe issue since you can just finish the game regardless. If you were softlocked because you used a consumable too early, that would be a huge issue in comparison.
There is some truth in it but god it was always such a nightmare to wait with the potions of strenght or dexterity until it was more lucrative to drink them. Drinking them always makes me regret. If i drink too early - "soon i will find a weapon that will require 1 point of strenght more and ill be forced to wait long before ill be able to use it". If i drink too late - "basically no difference, i just played all the game without it -,-"
Okay, so you are saying that the way to make consumables be actually consumed is to A) have alternate paths to reach the same goal where you'd use one, B) foreshadowing potential uses for them, and C) by making the use worthwhile via exp or other stuff.
Took you sweet time to get there xD.
I remember a tough dragon fight: I used a shrink monster scroll on it and beat its little ass.
I get sick of carting round potions in elder scrolls thinking I'll use that and never do even when the time is right it just sits there taking up 1 cary weight or whatever and every 1 carry weight adds up when looting things
This... doesn't even have 2k views? What's your problem world?? There couldn't be a better analysis on the subject. Impressive video.
Seems like the idea is that the game let's you know who the strong enemies are. I always had fun with scrolls and potions in Morrowind because I new that it would only require a little grind to make the item back if I needed it
In case of marchands scattered around the world, hoarding doesn't need to be an issue. You can still sell anything.
i actually loved the meatbug quest in gothic 1. it just made me soo immersed!
Где Готика, там всегда есть русские и поляки - закон природы.
А он поляк?
@@schwarzesfleisch5809 Безымянный герой, возможно, поляк.
@@AvernusBO а откуда теория об этом? Игру делали немцы, оригинальный язык тоже немецкий, польского ни слова упоминания нет там.
@@schwarzesfleisch5809 я шучу. Просто в Польше игра популярнее чем в Германии. Конечно, игра немецкая и главный герой немец т.к. в его лексиконе присутствуют немецкие поговорки.
Just found this video after finishing Gothic 1 with over 370 pots of +100hp (the best ones) and another roughly 700 of +50/+75hp sitting in my inventory. I was rather eating blueberries, rice, etc. all the time to "save" pots for later chapters. Once I realized I am getting to an endgame, I finally started using pots, but I just had sooooo many.
I am just on my one of many playthroughs of Gothit 2 NOTR :D Love this game! I am doing pure mage build, so only invest LP in Mana. After you get to know the game it is totaly doable, and also thanks to scrolls! This is how You design a game! Any other design I cant think of is Arcanum, also very well though out game. And also still playing a 20 year old game is a mark thas You mad a bloody good game! :D (Sorry for bad english I get to emotional :D)
Great vids! I really enjoy this type of content. Hope your chanel will get recognition it deserves!
Great video!
no clue if you already did a video on this, but i think much of this ties in with how gothic lets you decide things. you cant control the large scheme (as in: are you evil or are you good, which ending do you get), but it lets you decide HOW you do things. do you knock down that guy? do you use a scroll? getting into the harbor city has at least 5 effective and doable ways, none of which really make all that much difference, you get in, but it gives you power over how you play the game - in contrast to many games that simply offer a different dialogue option and base the whole ending around it.
Gothic never stopped me from hoarding shiet, in fact it reinforced me hoarding shit with it's unlimited backpack.
Scrolls are just the beta version for Mages to try out what kind of spell do they want to wield on regular basis and what rune do they need to purchase/make.
I think the main point is that hoarding is there in gothic, but the game is giving you these hard encounters that you hoard for.
Gothic is something else, and it was my first big tragedy in the world of gaming!!!
as a child i was only used to Blizzard/microsoft (WC1,2,3 and AOE 1,2), then after playing Gothic 1 and 2 which where incredible and Gothic 3 which was different but still awsome i had to learn that not every studio will be there for ever.
at that time i didn´t knew about the beef between piranha byte and Jowood so i was waiting fpr gothic 4 but when Arcadia came out i realized that Gothing will never get a worth succesor.
looking back it still makes me sad thinking what could have been. still good memories!
I think Risen is the best we ever got to a true Gothic successor. But yea the lessons of that game have gone mostly unnoticed.
what do you mean? elex 2 is coming up soon, and yes while gothic is dead they still make roughly the same kinds of games
I too think risen 1 was the last really good game from them but many people really enjoy elex
It never got me to stop hoarding items, but maybe now that I have realised what I have done, I'll start using them.
but I did need scrolls to kill dragons.
me while playing Fallout 3 with 600 stimpacks: better eat 40 crams to heal all these bullet wounds
Also, one thing I can add about Gothic 2 as an old school fan of the game (I played 17 times through it back in the days circa 2003-2004) - the German voiceover is a pure gold. I wonder if there's any way to play it with German sound and English text. I think it is, because I played it with Russian text and German sound, but it was before Steam even existed 😁
PL version is the best version.
"you will never need them so feel free to use them whenever it seems appropriate"
Bro I think you missed the point of hoarding: I'm never gonna use them if there's an alternative way to do it.
Best use for fire rain scrolls was around the castle of the valley - drink some speed potion first and then cast and start running - area of effect will move with you for the duration of the cast. This way you can clean most Orks besieging the castle in 3 scrolls
I am just happy that there are people outside of Germany who are playing Gothic... keep it up and let's pray the remake is going to be good!
rain of fire to be used on orc army with speed potion is my favorite thing to do.
This was one of the reasons why I enjoyed Archolos so much it almost surpassed Gothic 2 for me. Back when I played the original games, I had that hoarding mentality. and postponed some challenges even though I had in my inventory the perfect tools for facing them. I never even used a transformation scroll in G1 and G2.
When playing Archolos, on the other hand, I took the approach you talk about in this video. And something you didn't touch upon is the feeling you get when you figure out a way to use your scrolls in a given situation to get an outcome that would be unimaginable without them at low levels. I'll just say, it's no wonder these games (G1, G2 and now Archolos) are my favorite games of all time in any genre.
yeah, that meatbugscroll in G1 is not needed, you can simply jump the wall from some rocks right of the main gate.
However, you didn't explain how you learned taking all the trophies from the monsters at lower lvls. If you nuke a Shadowbeast with a scroll, you won't be able to take its horn because there is no way you'd have the ability to do it such early in the game.
Gothic II is not just an RPG, it´s an Imersive Simulation. Therefore the use of consumables.
Gothic 2 eternally stands above the rest as far as progression design goes. Limited by the technology of its time, it definitely was not a limiter to how you played the game. The game is heavily curated and painstakingly balanced manually. Scrolls that are obviously WAY overpowered being offered to you in the first chapter of the game. You can kill monsters you would not be able to kill before thirty levels later.. yet the quest is offered at a time you would never be able to do so. Kill the Black troll? Technically you can do that at level 1, by just rushing STRAIGHT up to the Troll as he does the aggro animation and circling around him, landing a hit or two as he turns around slower than you can run around him. However that is not a design and I am certain it was not intended to defeat him this way (this can be done on any troll).
Despite its limitations, the way the game is balanced makes it stand miles above any rubbish Bethesda pushes out. How people accept this nonsense of a world leveling with you is beyond me. Clearly acceptable only by people who have not experienced the frustration, yet incredibly rewarding when successful, boiling in you as you try to battle something in your way that is not designed for your low level to beat. The items and gold rewarded for this success is also often balanced around your later levels, which makes them ALL the sweeter if you manage it early.
I can only pray that some old school designers stand up and say enough is enough soon. There's so much missing in modern games. So much so that I actually play exclusively old ones right now.. with only a few notable exceptions.
Bethesda is more popular because the general public is dumb, and people want to think as little as possible and steamroll through games feeling invincible. Gothic is the opposite of that.(at elast until you become a walking god at the end)
Gothic 1 didn't require you to have a meatbug transformation scroll. It actually provided you with one when needed. Don't remember how exactly, maybe that guy you go to the monastery with gives you or you may find some in a cave below, and he hints that you shall go there, but you definitely could not have one on you and still pass that segment. Even in Gothic 1 there were no places were you could stuck due to scroll being used earlied. What a great game.
Interesting video, although false.
Almost everyone hoarded in Gothic like mad.
"the game doesn't punish you for using scrolls"
unless you're a mage who didn't invest heavily into bows or melee...
As a mage you can actually craft Runes from spells which can be used as often as you'd like as long as you have enough Mana to cast that specific spell
pure mage is doable!
Pure mage is hardest at begging but its very easy once you get mana and higher circles
@@davidhranec4222 I once did a bow mage, it was the easiest playthrough I ever had, used master sword and composite bow or something for first two chapters, then made a smooth transition into magic
I think next time I'll go 2H mage, (2H because of the mage staves)
oh btw. the game punish you for wasting scrolls as a mage because you need them to create runes, so you can theoretically hard lock you out of progression
Good stuff, cheers!
Me, acquiring my XP by obstacle-locking orcs and papercutting them to death: (X) Doubt
there is downside to scrolls. If you use transformation and you get enought exp to level up, you dont get the health that comes with it.
Ain't nothing stopping me form hording items in Gothic.
There's just something about having an absolute filled inventory at the end of the game with items that would made it much easier sometimes. Or killing an enemy only with the sword where even the game says that you need to use an item.
Gothic for me is the journey of being the baddest mf in the world. And i like a good challenge and have no problem fighting an enemy for over an hour and dying 100s of times. Because the rewarding feeling when you finally win the fight is just so nice.
But of course there is no right way to play Gothic. Everyone should enjoy the game their way. Doesn't matter if it's rushing tru the game or finishing the game on 100% and picking up every item possible.
That's the beauty of gothic, now go make your own adventure
"Stop hoarding"? I have unlimited carrying capacity!
regenerating consumables would kill my emersion, it just about makes sense in dark souls but for an rpg with grounded mechanics it makes no sense and the dilemma of consumables as in they re 100% needed in almost every rpg iv played is down to the player not training enough and trying to run through the game which is on you every good rpg requires questing/grinding
also just let me wreck you're false sense of balance with those scrolls, there is a guy at the start you can buy a shit ton of scrolls of that allow you to transform into nearly invincible creatures and you can wipe the first area in 10 mins and become half the level cap lmao
lol, I kept on hitting the first dragon snapper over 1h with a low tier weapon. Never wasted a single scroll on an enemy. Kept on hoarding items and scrolls till the very end.
5:25 this "meow" rips my heart
Damn, these videos are so insightful. Gives me a new appreciation for games in general. So many game mechanics have a domino effect on how the player interacts with the game. Amazing work! Any game developer would be lucky to have you on there team.
Most RPGs are probably balanced but the players didn't use buffs and potions to make it so.
I have usually hoarded the spell scrolls, and instead "solved" the game by patiently killing all the creatures of the world in order of difficulty. I enjoy this process.
Instead of using scroll destroy undead you can simply use potion to increase your running speed. Actually the best thing in whole game xD Cheap, renewable and useful.