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Kirk Cameron doesn't understand atheism.
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2013
- Kirk Cameron doesn't understand atheism.
Hemant Mehta (www.friendlyath...)
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it's not that i am 100% sure there is no god it's that i'm supremely unconvinced
I hope you have an honest talk with God. All good relationships are built on honesty. Tell God what you think of the Bible, of the concept of God, etc. Tell it from the heart.
Then listen ...
Ken Shiloh Okay. Then tell me how to contact "God" so I can talk to him and tell him what I think about the Bible. Atheist are very honest people (atleast most of us are but as with any group you are apart of there will almost always be some liars involved) that's not the problem. The problem is there is no in depth very detailed explanation of how to talk to God. And how Christians label Atheist as evil and immoral because we are aren't evil and do have morals. So tell me in GREAT DETAIL of the process to ACTUALLY contact "God" not anything like God will give me a sign. Explain how to actually have a conversation. Like how Humans do with each other normally.
Jesus said that the 'pure in heart will see God.' 'Purity' simply means being honest. The problem is, we are born liars. For example, how many lies have you told?
We need to ask for a pure heart! Simply talking to God won't do a thing unless you are genuinely hungry for the truth.
I knew you would say something like that. Also what do you mean we are born liars? Of course we are born liars, we're human. Because humans aren't perfect we make mistakes, lie, and other things because humans are imperfect beings. Also it's not possible for someone to never lie in their entire life. People lie for multiple reasons some of which are good reasons. I haven't lied for a bad reason in years since I was really young, before I understood lying is bad. Now I'm about to be an adult and never lie without a good reason behind it. And even then that's rare.
Ken Shiloh: You may have been born a liar, but I have never met a lying baby. Trying to convince people that they are "born bad" or that they "deserve" to burn forever is one of my biggest problems with religion. As a former christian, it was my hunger for the truth that forced me to admit that I had spent decades looking for non-existent evidence to support my beliefs. However, according to you, I must have not been genuinely hungry for the truth. If god exists, he has a done a piss poor job of leaving any proof of his existence. Before you bring up the Bible, with all its slavery, baby-killing, and genocide, remember that "holy books" are a dime a dozen. Having a bigger bandwagon doesn't make it any more convincing to me.
Well, I hate God the way I hate Joffrey Baratheon and Lord Voldemort.
ninjadude971 good sir, you have stated in one sentence everything wrong about the "atheists only hate god" thing. I congratulate you.
🤣🤣🤣
Poor Kirk does not understand much of anything.
Tangerine Farmer xDDDDD made my day.
Okotowari Shimasu Glad I could. :D
Tangerine Farmer
He knows how to use controversy to stay 'relevant'. His bullshit views are most likely a means to generate publicity.
xaenon That is a distinct possibility.
+xaenon I'm sure Kirk exhibits key traits of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Kirk Cameron doesn't really understand Christianity either.
He does, and that's why he's making so much money from believers. That's the core of torturer worship: Professional child molesters and or con men making money off of the cowardly and gullible.
Kirk never really came across as the brightest bulb in the pack!
"Maybe if he just talked to one, instead of talking down to them..." ~ Such a great line!
Why do theists try to put words in our mouths?
Because to argue against what we actually believe is too difficult.
Anglomachian Tru dat dawg! Tru dat.
Anglomachian no, they simply don't understand what we believe, this is why kirk thinks he was an atheist, im suspicious that he always believed but just shut his mind out to it, or was on the verge of atheism, but never took the step of attaining knowledge, but because of his uneducated claims about atheism i am more lenient towards the former
*****
Yes! They almost know that they are losing their strangle hold on us. They still think that they are fighting the good fight. But really they're a bunch of self righteous ignoramus'!
***** No we listen all the time because we need to make a good argument and more and more people are realizing that the atheist theory sounds more realistic. This is what i don't like about enjoy that much about Christians is that they're really closed minded where most atheists have considered the other side of the argument
Kirk Cameron and Sarah Palin are cut from the same mold of ignorance. Could you imagine these two sharing a conversation. It would be better than a remake of the movie "Dumb and Dumber." I laugh just thinking about the ridiculous nonsense spewing forth from their mouths. This has to get done within my lifetime! OMG! HAHAHAHA.....HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
I don't hate God, I just hate his over-obsessive fanboys.
I honestly believe that the evidence suggesting Santa Claus isn't real holds weight similar to or the same as the evidence suggesting God isn't real...
Josh_Video Yes, entirely, yes...
DavidLeeLewisM
Can you tell why?
For god, there are unproven stories taking place in real cities.
For Santa we have unproven stories taking place in real cities (or one place at least).
Can you explain where is the difference?
hal lourious You tell me... Christians believe in only one of them... Why so, if the evidence is the same...?
Oh, sorry. I misunderstood your comment. Then we are both clueless why :P
I've sat in Santa's lap. Can't say the same about Jesus. One of these is clearly the winner.
I love this channel, this guy gets it.
Thank you for speaking in a respectful voice to and about theists! They are much more likely to listen to you than every other atheist on youtube that uses malice and condescending tones towards them. Oh, and you were right when you said Kirk was just apathetic about god then turned to evangelism. He was never truly atheist to begin with.
Dude I love your talks I'm going through a lot of inner turmoil right now I can't understand and it's tearing me up
Hey, man. I'm curious. Did you finally make up your mind?
Dude...you should make tshirts that say" I DONT HATE GOD, AND I DONT HATE UNICORNS"
#StopTheUnicornAbuse
to get through to religious people, we must accept the fact that the religious person is honest and lost. we should learn not to attack their intelligence because religious people are very intelligent, just lost in perspective.
i think, in order for atheism to progress, we have to study human behavior more, so we can spend less time bickering with religious people.
there is a reason why religious people become religious, and the answer imo, is more than indoctrination, and the fear of death. we must study the mind of the religious in an individual level.
if we believe in science, let us use the science, psychology, to strengthen the atheist population.
You have put forwards an excellent point, sk8bow. Nevertheless, some members of religion that still support the young world creationism idea such as Kirk Cameron also need a better standard of education. It is human nature to fear or be wary of what we don't understand. Mr Cameron's lack of understanding of evolution is apparent, an example being his claim that evolutionists are still searching for the 'crocoduck' - a missing link between crocodiles and ducks.
His and other creationism advocates's lack of understanding of science and Atheism has consequently made them allege completely false information about these two topics. If extreme members of religion who fear Atheism and science simply because they don't understand it are properly educated about them, this will make it far easier for Atheists to "get through to religious people".
Therefore, more channels such as The Atheist Voice are needed to inform these individuals of the actual views of Atheists. This would result in less opposition.
I agree that an approach of less arguing and more discussion will be more successful.
I see the primary problem of religion to be a lack of skepticism as it relates to their god and a blindness to this special case they have created in their minds.
I do feel that indoctrinating children into this madness is child abuse.
junkmailjoebrown
i want to use examples like this www.sciencemadesimple.co.uk/activities/confuse_your_legs to explain how strange and amazing the human brain is, and i want to find a way to explain how this can relate to how belief in religion is created in humans.
hopefully it would show how the brain works. and if it could make a religious person marvel at how it is so that their foot and finger cannot do the task, then maybe it would make the religious person think about science for answers. there has to be a way to explain how people religious people develop belief in an eye opening way.
could it be peer pressure? could it be the need for humans to anthropomorphize?
imo, we have to catch the religious people's interest in science in order to change belief. i learned that in cognitive mind science, in order to change a bad habit, it must be replaced with another habit.
i have a strong feeling there is a way to affectively change the majority of religious people through helping them to scientific discovery so they wake up and think twice about why they are religious.
i'd like to see a well known scientist like dawkins use examples like this to explain how more connected we are to science than "god".
Amazing, so much talk about religion. Jesus Christ never taught about religion at all, and only warned that if one chooses a religion, than it had be better than what the Scribes & Pharisees belonged to, or they would not see Heaven. Religion is man made, God has always existed & does not need our help in defending Him. It's like a Lion, just let him out of his cage!!!
This is the tone of dialogue and discourse that I share and respect.
I do hate him. It is so easy to hate Kirk Cameron :-)
what you said at 1:33 made me remember the quote by Bara Dada from George E. Stanley: "Jesus is ideal and wonderful, but you Christians -- you are not like him."
which is miss-attributed to Gandhi as: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ..."
Hey! I do hate unicorns! You just can't trust a horse with a frikkin sword on its head.
Mikael Eriksson HOW DARE YOU!!! Lol!
hey,love unicorns.🦄🍭
Why does this confusion still crop up? Atheism (the term) simply means "not believing in (a) god". Some atheists are "strong" atheists who positively believe that there is no god; others simply do not have a belief in a god because they have never encountered evidence to cause them to believe -- that is to say, to feel that such a belief has a basis in truth. This is NOT the same as knowledge that a god does not exist; it is maintaining a mind open to evidence, but in the interim not having FAITH in that which lacks reasonable evidence. Agnosticism, on the other hand, deals with KNOWLEDGE, not FAITH or belief.
So, no, while an agnostic can be an atheist, they aren't necessarily; there are plenty of Christians who, if asked, will admit that they do not KNOW god exists, but still BELIEVE in that existence. It's a matter of honesty and attempting to precise about terms. I myself lean more toward the "strong" category of atheism (positive belief that no god exists), but am open to reasonable evidence (not the nonsense that is so often touted as such; it must meet the same standards as any other claim to reality). Until I am presented with that which, like a verdict in a court, proves the case "beyond a reasonable doubt", I see no reason to believe in any god (or, for that matter, anything supernatural) including that of the bible.
Which brings up another point I am making more and more these days: this argument is posited on the false premise that there is only one god in question. There isn't. There are THOUSANDS. The god of Abraham is NOT the only one under consideration here; that's special pleading with a vengeance! He/she/it is as open to criticism as the god of any other mythology, and has stood the gaffe no better. In fact, given the evidence, we CAN prove the god of the bible (that is, the figure as described there) simply cannot exist, as it not only is contradicted by external evidence (history, physics, geology, radiometric dating, biology, genetics, etc., etc., etc.) but also internal evidence within the bible itself (contradictory passages; the textual history of the bible and its transmission; the influence of older religions on the Hebraic faith, etc.). Whether or not some god served as a basis for the figure in the bible, and whether or not that god ever existed, is another question; though the latter would appear to be quite unlikely. (That gods of older faiths served as inspiration for many aspects of this god is almost conclusively proven.)
In other words, keep the terms and what they signify straight, and you'll have no problem understanding what's being said here: atheists come in a variety of "flavors"; agnostics do as well... but they are NOT equivalent, albeit related.
I think I'm in the minority. I'm an atheist-conservative. Christian and non Christian friends ask, "how can you be a conservative-atheist?" I answer, "because they go perfectly together." Common sense, logic, reason, and personal accountability are what I "believe" in. People make excuses for God, (The Lord works in mysterious ways) and they make excuses for their inability to succeed. You are responsible for the outcome of your life. Not God, not your parents, not your race, color, or creed. Just you, personally. If you want to accomplish something, only you can do it.
"What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church ... a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them" - Martin Luther.
Great video and articles, greetings from Brazil !!!
i enjoy your videos.....keep up the good work!
1) I named more than a "few" scientist (and there are way more than I named)
2) I believe in the M-verse, and I gave you links that said it wouldn't solve the problem.
3) I didn't say that a natural process wouldn't explain it, but even if it does explain it we would still be left with "why did that natural process just happen to make the constants have the values to support life"?
kirk's acting career was going down the toilet. It was a career move for him. Not a good one I might add.
+James Scobie Kirk's another ex-child star gone bad. Instead of being high on dope, he's high on Jesus. He and his sister are both obnoxious no-talent hacks desperate to stay relevant.
I do have a question about something you said on the video. You said that atheists 1) Don't necessarily not believe in God, and 2) being atheists doesn't mean you hate God. I can dig the second point, but doesn't the definition of being an atheist mean you don't believe in the existence of God?
You are misinterpreting the first point. What Hemant said is that atheists do not *accept by faith as an absolute truth* that God does not exist, they simply do not find enough evidence to believe in his existence.
Going back to the pink unicorn example, if I don't believe in the existence of pink unicorns, it means I've never seen one and was not provided with evidence that they exist, therefore I *think* that, probably, there are none. What I don't say in this case is "I know for a fact there are no pink unicorns!".
Taras Denysenko That makes perfect sense. Thank you for the clarification.
God told me to take a shit on Wendy's salad bar. -George Carlin
you are humane and fun. without a god. i have to admit i loved yer remark about cameron: if he would just talk to an atheist instead of talking down to one... too true!
Sound and clear, brilliant !
What reason do you have to say for certain that there aren't any invisible elves in your garden?
I hate what I do not hate.....what?
Last I remembered, he was a Christian, so hearing now that he's "a recovering atheist" threw me. Looking it up, he was an atheist in his early teens, converted to Christianity at 17. Maybe 30 years of Christianity has destroyed his memory of his own atheism.
Anyone wanna explain to me the difference between an atheist and an agnostic? I was under the assumption that Atheist, by definition, means that you deny the existence of god. "One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.". Am I wrong? Let me know! Because I have always considered myself agnostic because I thought that claiming to absolutely know a god doesn't exist is just as ignorant as claiming to know one does exist. Would love a reply from you Hemant Mehta!
atheists beleive there is no god where as agnostics dont beleive there is and dont beleive there isnt, their in the middle
No, he's most likely looking at the little monitor sticking out of the camera so he can see himself. Is that a problem?
I am a believer in the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob, and I would personally enjoy sitting down with you over a cup of coffee. I don't want to get specific here because I fully am aware of how it will be misinterpreted, but I see as well a lot of what you said. Ever since I made the decision after reading the Bible to believe in Jesus, and follow His teachings, I have seen that what I read in the New Testament & what I see seems really different. The way some Christians live, treat each other, and do by what they claim is because of their faith. I know there is something much deeper in the way I personally see in Christ's treatment of people. His love was truly unconditional, yet very few of us really understand how to love someone else without placing conditions on it. The only message that I have personally come to grips with that Jesus taught was that because of freedom to choose, we have truly made a wreck of our lives & the world we live in. That His Father desires to have a personal, one on one, relationship with each of us. There is not enough time to explain, or go into the theology behind the blood, and why it provides cleansing. He paid that price for us, and through coming to this truth, He has begun to change my heart, and it isn't so much as following a set of rules, or being a slave to a bunch of commands. I have an intimate relationship with God as my Father, and my desires have changed. Hope you understand.
Some don't seem to get that we reject ALL gods, not just theirs, and that we're not limited by their idea of god. I've rejected both benevolent gods and malevolent gods, gods by committee, gods that created the world and are now absent, those made in man's image and those that are formless. Whether I "hate" any particular conception of a deity is irrelevant to my belief in it.
You're such a handsome man and so interesting to listen and to.
You should definitely have a meeting with Bryan Melvin
Are you looking at the camera? I can't tell.
I really try not to come from a presupposition or lump everyone into one area of thought,but now I'm looking for the definition of an atheist...because I thought that was it, 'don't believe in God'. Your next phrase, 'or are mad at Him', now your not an atheist, just mad at God...if that's the case...then welcome to the club, every once in a while, at some point or another most Christians have been there! From that point on you feed spiritual doubt or develop a foundation for faith. Love you guys! Chaplain Dan
Daniel Arjona You were right about "don't believe in a god". That is not the same as "believe there is no god". Although most atheists I know do believe there is no Yahweh or Allah as described in their official books; now if descriptions are off, men being mistaken or prejudiced or entitled.....
I don't believe in Bigfoot or Yeti, and I don't believe there is no unknown large primate somewhere; I believe verifiable evidence would be unsurprising, but I don't have any. And knowing for certain would not change my life in any way.
You sideways touch the subject, but I think it might be interesting to really go into it, cause a lot of people don't seem to know the difference between agnostisism and atheism. They get mixed up or people think they are the same or they exclude each other. It might make for a good video if you'd explain the difference.
I think atheists can agree that there is no god until someone can prove that god exists (similar to unicorns or space aliens). I also think it's ok to dislike the depiction of the god of the old testament. He's a terrible "person", isn't he? Most of the humanesque gods of antiquity were poorly behaved...the Christian god was no better.
When did Dawkins claim "I am not sure because I am no god"?
That would be a bizarre thing for him to say, and if he said it, I am quite sure it was in jest. By I personally have not heard it, read it or watched him say that.
i've always wondered the same thing about Cameron, and i know it's pretty ironic of me to think this since i hate being accused of not being a real Christian when i can't even explain how devoted to God i was and how real it all was to me, but sometimes i wonder if someone who has reached atheism and educated themselves about the origin of religion and the world and morality and, the flaws of the Christian faith, would ever go back to full Christianity, maybe theism, deism or agnosticism but Christianity? not if they had made the decision by attaining knowledge, or at least they would never believe in literal Christianity or fundamentalism even if they did go back, and if they did go back, im sure they would have enough memory to know that what kirk is saying is not true, kirk probably just shut his mind out to God for personal reasons but never really had good reasons, evidence and sources to back it up and i really wish he did but maybe it's not to late
American historic persecution cycles
To understand this vicious cycling, one has to glance at the Bloody Marys. After a brief period of political intrigues when Henry’s sickly son died, Mary Tudor took the throne. She enacted persecution on a scale that pales her father’s psycho reign, which tends to be vastly unreported but probably was smaller in comparison since Shakespeare never took on the subject of political persecution until MacBeth late in his career. Mary Tudor, Catholic, obviously took inspiration from Spanish Inquisition. Fortunately, her bloody reign was short like Nero’s. Long enough to leave lasting memory but society not impacted. During the reign of Elizabeth I who refused to go for revenge, passed anti-Catholic laws and threatened to kill anyone who enforced them.But the second Bloody Mary assumed the throne of Scotland and she too killed Protestants.
Birth of the Puritans took place under James I of England, J6 of Scotland (same guy). He went into Scotland and revenge was served hot. No record but laws were warped. For further fun, he went to Ireland and tons of records, mostly burnt cathedrals with people locked inside. This is also why Ireland is the lovely mess it is to this day. I think they finally achieved peace by dividing into a small Protestant section and very large Catholic section. Who looks? It really induces headaches just thinking about it. I’m sure Brits are incredibly happy about the Irish Sea.
James I actually went over to a peaceful mode after exporting people to the Colonies which suddenly no longer a massive failure and just a way to keep Spanish Catholics at their usually hobby of enslaving and mistreating South American natives. Needless to say, Brits wanted slaves of their own and actively pursued it. As long as it stayed near South American territories, few cared. Most happy ruing class had someone else to play with. But since they didn’t move that dream was shattered and life continued in the usual unamusing fashion of crap, they thought up another tax. You can be sure a few drew maps with directions while the rest headed for local ale houses.
Either way, Puritans voluntarily left on their own with plans for the future. Massachusetts Bay Colony sound familiar... probably not. But since James I liked shipping people they were always outnumbered. Puritans in England beheaded a king, started a new cycle of persecution which was massively protested after the execution of Guy Fawkes & friends. This is now being misrepresented by Rupert Murdoch and I’m curious to see how that goes. Fires 🔥 in protest are now supposedly fires 🔥 of support. “V” may actually make no sense if current political turds are successful.
Anyway, I sat in classes where this political persecution cycle was explained by an Army Intelligence Officer. Puritans being bad news was exactly a shock to me. I can’t say how rest felt because military and civilian dependents... not some secret session but just a bunch of history lessons taught by a particularly brilliant and exciting man. We all always signed up for the next class. Definitely everyone was on fire 🔥. Civilians tended to be most expressive while military nodded and gave comments.
Regardless, American history is always presented as only understandable if you know what the Puritans were, mainly unhappy people who want to kill Catholics, mutilate churches, and start fires, preferably with staked victim.
I am so thankful and glad, that somebody questions Kirk's atheism. I don't believe he was a real atheist. How old was he when he was one? Did he ever explain his reasoning and logic to stop being one? Thank you for this video.
Apparently he was 17 when he stopped being an atheist. Considering that he thinks we hate God, he probably was just an edgy kid.
My question:
Maybe I've misheard you in your previous videos, but you say a lot "There is no god, we all know that." or something along that line. Even at 1:52, he says "We're not mad at god, just like we're not mad at santa clause and we don't hate unicorns, *they're just not there.*" So, I'm confused. He says earlier in the video that you can't be certain, but he claims Gods not there. I can understand easily the other two, but I'd appreciate someone to *politely* help me understand what he means when he says it's ridiculous to say Gods not real and says it himself... I think? Thanks for the help.
My guess is that it's just nice to let go sometimes. Theists pull "God is real" assumptions out of nowhere for no good reason very often, and it can get really bothersome playing by the rules all the time when you opponent is cheating and no one seems to care.
It could also be bait for some theist to come out and ask "You claim god isn't real? How do you know?", so that we can slap them in the face with their own dumbassery, and hopefully get a point across.
Unfortunately this is something that comes up frequently in more casual conversation most atheist will use the word know when speaking about the existence of god because when speaking casually its generally not required to tack on beyond a reasonable doubt to everything you accept as factual for instance i might say I know there is no flying spaghetti monster but what I mean is I am convinced based on the lack of evidence that the flying spaghetti monster is imaginary hope thats clear and I encourage you to ask more folks in the comments theres lots of friendly people around (minus the trolls of course)
There are two types of Christians. Those who use religion to overpower, manipulate, condemn others and then there are those who follow Christ to serve rather than master. Christ is for the underdog. He is for the poor. He find value in those that the world discards. The 1st shall be the last. The bulks of his teachings was that it is better to be a humble servant rather than a bully. I am not sure if God exists in the invisible daddy in the sky manner, but I still call myself a Christian. I just think the atheists and extreme Christians both can find common ground, but everyone just loves having opponents. Everyone loves a holy war.
"I come not to bring peace, but a sword".
is that not enough?
I can't find a common ground with people who allow their children to be psychologically abused.
"If you don't accept jesus as your savior you will burn for eternity after you die"
No child possesses the maturity to handle those kinds of words and they will sit in the back of the child's mind for the rest of it's life (most likely) and you will never be able to free them of their fear of the unknown. We can't let it perpetuate any longer. It's already been well over 2,000 years.
goaliedude32 Not a very good example of Christ in that statement. Where is your heart, goaliedude32? This is why so many want nothing to do with God, and especially Church. I remember my Lord saying that it was better to have a millstone tied around your neck & thrown into the sea, than to make a little one stumble.
Wayne Stewart I want nothing to do with Christianity, because Christians, throughout the ages, and even now, have this strange urge to kill people who they feel are evil, steal from the innocent, lie in order to promote their faith, dedicate themselves to monogamy or celibacy while being wholly unable to commit themselves to that decision, are willing to turn away from their parents, and more importantly, do not do a damn thing Jesus tells them to do. they are hypocrites of the highest order in all things.
why do I not want to have anything to do with your god? because he is a lying, manipulative, crybaby, who is more than happy to commit both murder of individuals and genocide on a GLOBAL scale, solely on the basis that can be summed up in the same mentality that a stalking rapist has: "Love me, or I'll torture you".
...and as for the millstone? your god aborts the fetuses of unfaithful wives (Numbers 5) and slaughters the unborn of nonbelievers (Numbers 31). Jesus may love all the little children of the world... but God certainly doesn't.
IAmValenwind Christianity is not based or founded by what other Christians do, but is based on an individual relationship with the God who made you. I have made the same mistake personally many times allowing what others do affect my relationship with Almighty God. When in all actuality He had nothing to do with it. It is only when I am completely trusting Him do I truly see His complete & unconditional love working in my life & in circumstances I find myself in. I would never justify wrong done in the name of Christ, and you are right, it has happened repeatedly down throughout the history of the human race. It has confused me as well that the Bible teaches to immitate Christ,. yet so many look just like the world.
I've replied to this comment numerous times, and all I've ever gotten was a list of a few scientists who think that life couldn't exist without the universe being fine tuned the way it is and the bold assumptions that fine tuning can't come from a natural process and that the multiverse theory can't possibly be true. Until you can verify those assumptions, stop claiming to have scientific evidence for god.
How can you be P on A if there is no A ?
Creative license?
I was an atheist for 35 years, I didn't believe in an invisible sky daddy who watched my every move, even while I slept (creep). I looked down upon theists as sad, miserable, weak-minded people who used religion as a crutch to get through life.
That all changed 7 years ago, when Christ came into my life, in a very physical way I cannot explain, other than He is real. This event turned my life upside down, and now I find myself enrolled in a Christian University pursuing a degree in theology and going on a mission trip to Haiti this August.
Life is an amazing adventure, that's for sure. To all my atheists friends, I do not preach, I only choose to live my life focused on Christ.
"No one knows whether or not god actually exists." I don't really like this statement. It leaves the word "god" open for any interpretation. I don't know if the Diest god, or some divine creator of the universe, constants and balances exists, but I DO know that the god of the bible, quran, book of mormon, and every other holy book DO NOT EXIST. That is what I mean when I call myself an atheist. We literally can prove that those books are not divinely inspired or perfect when we find a single contradiction or something that makes people behave in a way that causes harm to themselves or others. Every holy book has done this, even the Jain text forces those people to live in a way that would be unsustainable if everyone lived that way. We would all have starved to death and been overrun by more deadly animals. Every holy book claims to be perfect in every single way, if they are not perfect, the fact that they are wrong about being perfect alone should be enough to convince people that everything else in the book should be read as fantasy, written by humans vastly more ignorant than any modern day 5 year old. When it comes to a generalization of "god" meaning anything that created everything, I'm agnostic because I would need to be omniscient and know everything to know one doesn't exist. But as far as the religions celebrated by man, I'm an atheist because we can prove that the very source for knowledge about that god is flawed and often absurdly and obviously wrong. One tiny flaw and the whole claim of divine inspiration by a perfect being falls apart at the foundations. I DO know those god's don't exist in the way they are described if only for the fact that their books are wrong about their perfection. Anything perfect will write or inspire a perfect book, no perfect book, no perfect creator of said book. Hence my atheism.
"God isnt a bad guy. His people are "
Thank you Hemant, for such a complete and succinct argument to counter the 'spiritual liars' like Cameron.
I have finally decided that Christianity is too toxic for me to stay in it. However, after careful study and contemplation I now identify as a deist. I enjoy the videos.
why do people hate God when they claim there is no God?
should God reveal Himself to someone if that person calls God things like evil or monster ?
why should God reveal Himself to someone who says they will not worship God even if God revealed Himself to them, yet they always ask for evidence of the existence of God?
They hate the character, just like some people hate Voldemort
Essentially the term atheism is disbelief or lack of believe that God exist, Kirk Cameron is on point if he says that they all must believe there is no God. Is that not what the term means?
And also the reason many Christians feel or think atheist are angry at God is for the comment made by such people, it's just bad representation. Overall there should be respect on both sides of the table. And yes I'm Christian :) don't judge ;p
While Kirk Cameron may be an extra special case, most Christians, even well known apologists, don't understand atheism. Watch nearly any debate on the subject (a good example is the Shermer-Craig debate).
I love that! I am now going to be indentify myself as a recovering Christian.
One problem with theists is that they assume that you know what they're talking about when they make assertions about "god". They don't even realize that people within their own religion (let alone other religions) do NOT agree on the concept of "god" and what it represents. Dawkins first question when confronted with people who ask him why doesn't he believe in god, is "which one?". There are as many gods as there are believers, because god or rather the concept of a deity lives inside of the believer's brain. You could easily get two members of the same congregation and ask them a few questions to verify this. They will always have differences in their perception of god, many of which are far from trivial.
I know this because I used to be a Gospel teacher, and I was supposed to ensure everyone knew the "correct" god. It was an impossible task.
The general point to make is that atheism is strictly one position on one question, so being an atheist doesn't tie you to any prepackaged belief system. Some will hate religious folks, and sometimes (historically, I'd say rarely) an anti-religious climate will promote general hatred towards religious folks, which can lead to violence.
The first thing cancels out the second.
How do you know? According to the Catholic Church, Martin Luther was not a Christian, but like Hitler, he thought he was. Of course, like Luther, Hitler thought that the churches were wrong and corrupt, and wanted to start his own version of religion, but nothing he wrote seems to indicate that he was not a believer in Jesus as god, so I call him a Christian.
Hmm... I thought you were going to disassemble Kirk's first misconception of atheism correctly... but you didn't. You said atheists can't "believe there is no god" definitively. (Which is true, but it's more of a side note) This doesn't address the fallacy in Kirk's statement. What Kirk misunderstands about atheism is that atheists don't "believe there is no god". Atheists just reject the god claim; it's a lack of belief. There's a distinct difference.
Thanks, Hemant. I wonder if Kirk thinks there is any possibility, whatsoever, that his faith is misplaced.
I have a hypothesis that Dawkins might enjoy cardinalizing values or faith, which seems silly to me. How can you be a '6.9999' whatever faithless rating?
It seems to me that the categorization is 'I believe in universal claim of x' and 'I'm not sure because I'm not God' which removes all need for numbers.
By Kirk saying that ALL Atheist hate god, he is implying a belief in God. One can't hate or love something he/she doesn't believe in. I wonder why he doesn't get that.
I am not fighting for the idea that god doesn't exist. I am fighting for rational thought which, when applied to religion without emotional bias, leads inevitably to the conclusion that there is no good reason to think there is a god, thus no good reason to make laws, discriminate or kill over that belief. There is nothing about NOT believing in god that would motivate me to any dangerous act. Only in defense against religious oppression would I do anything violent - believers can't claim this.
I like what you say, but I used to believe and now I don't.. Does that make me a recovering Christian? Im 100% sure in my mind that the god of the Christian bible doesn't exist! I have read the bible numerous times cover to cover, and found too many flaws for this to be a book of divine inspiration.. Science says the earth is a sphere the bible says it is flat.. both can't be right... need I say more?
If they are the same, then why does He send people of different faiths such widely differing systems of doctrine? I mean, yeah, they all share a lot of common sense stuff (don't kill, don't steal, etc., do we really need a holy book to tell us these things?), but doctrinally, those are three VERY DIFFERENT bowls of soup? Are you saying Islam or Hinduism are just as valid as Christianity? And if not, why should I chose your religion instead of some other?
Raymond: I understand where you're coming from. I was raised in the church. But: "We humans are all living spirits created by Him in Love" isn't a rational argument. It's rhetorical mumbo-jumbo. It doesn't mean anything. I could just as equally say "We humans are all living spirits created by Zeus in Anger" and it would hold just as much weight as evidence. Atheists prefer the concrete. Religions tend to deal in abstractions and strong feelings, both very unreliable when describing reality.
But since there is no official atheist scripture describing an atheistic doctrine or belief system, these actions cannot be justified by, or blamed upon, the lack of belief in a god, in and of itself.
Actually, trying to parse the religious views of a mad man in a comments section is a sucker's game. Many of Hitler's private writings suggest he was a believer in a Judeo-Christian version of god (while hating the churches), others suggest he was a deist, and still others make him seem somewhat nihilistic. But I know of nothing he wrote in which he flatly denies god or Jesus. That is far from being a supporter of the Christian churches in Germany, which I think he wanted to wipe out eventually.
Really dude? look up the definition. Here I will just paste it for you.
noun: atheism
1.disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
now for agnostic.
noun: agnostic; plural noun: agnostics
1.a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.
Guess what, if you say you are not sure you are not atheist, you are agnostic.
Kirk Cameron doesnt represent the beliefs of theist any more than Charles Manson or David Karesh. He thinks God designed a banana to be perfect for human consumption and he tries to disprove evolution with a crocaduck. He understands neither the banana nor evolution. By the way, I am not religious in any way and I like your videos. Mostly because you dont hate and you dont make fun of anyone or insult people who dont believe what you do.
You cannot hold both those believes at the same time if I do not believe God exists then why would I hate God that makes no sense
I think this is his strategy to be that extreme just in order not to being forgotten
I'm 56 and I'm not a Christian. Nor are the 2/3 of the world's population who adhere to other faiths.
We wont know until we pass away.
What laws have been passed to make things harder for women, lately???
kirk is half of the duo, Dumb and Dumber, with his buddy ray comfort
If there were no Kirk Cameron, I wouldn't hate him.
That is, I'm sure Kirk probably convinced himself that he somehow "hated" God before he was a Christian (even if he didn't actually believe that God existed).
But this is a good video. Thanks for making this, Hemant!
But sure, some atrocities were committed in the name of anti-religious doctrines (not in the name of atheism per say, though, since atheism is not a doctrine). However, tell me how many violent atheistic totalitarian regimes you can find throughout history, versus theocracies and religious despots who used their religion to oppress their people, or as a way to promote the killing of people of different faith or groups.
Atheism/theism address beliefs. Agnosticism/gnosticism address knowledge. The two terms are not mutually exclusive.
Did you know that there are agnostic theists which are people who believe there is a god but don't claim to know there is a god?
So, who is it that isn't understanding atheism?
If someone asks you "do you believe in a god" and you reply by saying "I'm an agnostic", then guess what, you didn't answer their question.
Get it?
God's lack of evidence is evidence in itself that it does not exist.
I think you're giving these apologists way too much credit with the apatheism-argument.
Considering the widespread use of this "former atheist, but now I know better"-card amongst apologists, and especially fundie ones, it's far more likely that it's a psychological tactic to gain credibility/authority on the subject they are talking about, in a "it takes one to know one"-fashion.
Similar tricks are done in politics, and because it's unfalsifiable, it's a really good tactic.
"Why" isn't always a meaningful question.
W8 WHAT, If You dont believe in God im not here to judge you, but if you dont believe in God How can you hate it, thats like saying i love cake but ive never tried or seen cake
At 43 seconds you say "you can not say anything definitive about God either way" - Are you all knowing?
homeboy's fantastic~!!~
Have you watch any other video of this channel? Which point do you want him to address? Strictly speaking, atheist don't have to defend their lack of belief. It's theist's burden to convince us t believe in god. Not believing in something until proven true is the default position. And making a video doesn't take much effort, and it's a pretty important distinction to make since almost every christian trying to attack atheism use that straw man against us.
+Pat Doyle Yeah, all you have to do is pull out a standard piece of paper and stare at it, literally no effort involved ;P
It seems like naming your child with a name with starts with a K makes them less likely to be reasonable. (No offense to people whose names start with a K.)
As a Christian I hated my magical sky daddy because he never seemed to answer my telepathic voice mails. I figured he would at least have the Hindu Krishna and all his avatars to set up a call center to transfer my calls. Then I figured out he was never there to begin with, and suddenly I was able to rely on actual people for help, and suddenly I wasn`t so mad any more.
I honestly have no problem with atheists saying "I hate God". It's not nonsensical to say "I hate Voldemort". We all believe Voldemort doesn't exist, but we can still hate Voldemort within reason.
Your reasoning is sound.I take your point.However,if someone has encountered The True One God there is no question that it could be any other than The one True God.
Exactely my point, being an atheist and an agnostic is not incompatible, atheism is about "belief" and agnosticism is about "knowledge". If we get proof a god is a "fact!" as you put it, we wouldn't need to believe in it, because we would know (gnostic) he/she/it exists.
Which are they mean only the Christan God with the "you hate god"... because i find some gods/god like's really cool... like Odin, Thor, Freja, Luzifer (yeah the christan one he is like the Sowjet Lenin in the christan myth :3) and other... and of course Gods that are from Games, and Movies or something like that.