So it seems college level discourse has left the campus and come to UA-cam where it can be accessible to everyone with a cell phone and a browser. It would seem culture is moving forward despite the common narrative from established interests. Thank you for this time well spent.
It is good to see a certain calibre of thought and learning being readily available to everybody, I agree. That said. Quality discourse has always been around. And _'college level'_ is by no means the pinnacle of scholastic engagement in this world. In fact it often is detrimental as it can take years of independent study and research to unlearn some of the bad habits learned in some disciplines.
It blows my (average) mind to listen to such brilliance, but I'm not envious... in fact, I'm immensely thankful that I'm able to expand my own thinking and understanding by having these wondrous discussions so readily available to me. Thank you Dr. Peterson for the gift of these experiences.
The way these 2 brilliant men just talked is how we should be sorting out our world problems with integrity and respect and a genuine intellect and a genuine care and desire to fix things and not to have the arrogance of not listening truly to each other until we find the answers together, not for praise or popularity but for genuine want of a better state of being which will bring a better world, thanks again Mr peterson and all your guests
Unfortunately these type of thinkers don’t exist in Politics. They don’t have the temperament for dealing with other Dark personalities demanding what they want constantly. Not that I think Jordan is weak. But he’s no President Donald John Trump!!!!
This episode has totally blown my mind. Learned more from this conversation than the entirety of my three year university education. This is going to take a very long time and so much thought / reading to unpack. The ending was extraordinary. Absolutely first class content. Thank you both.
"solving global warming by installing solar cells created by burning coal in China" I love it! In one sentence, Niall vividly illustrates our political dystopian rule
Good observation. Sadly the western country citizens appear to long for some crying in the wilderness, without any actual suffering or any real effort, and latching onto climate crisis is the best social media conduit to dump endless bullshit into. And with that, getting to bask in the glow of some weird virtue, narcissistic tyrant PMs and geriatric presidents lack the balls or brain power to challenge the opinions of their voters, mostly because impressing the leaders of corrupt 3-letter international organizations is more important. It's 2023 and clear thinking has left the building.
Yes. Because research was never done into alternatives for the technology. Now, we are at a point where we do this stuff now, or we fall. We have governments failing to recover from natural disasters, because they are getting more and more in number, are coming faster, and are stronger. No government can cope with all of that going on, and govern the population that is not affected at the same time without outside assistance from other knowledge and other governments.
How else would they have been created? The parts for the first car were probably hauled on a cart pulled by a horse or a donkey. You're just being stupid hailing such a comment as some kind of wisdom.
Thank you doctors Peterson and Ferguson for this illuminating conversation and allowing us, the common folk with the simple minds, to indulge in a classical academic conversation. Civilized, educated, eloquent and enlightening. It is thanks to academics like yourselves (who still have critical minds and post their work publicly) that in this turbulent age of malaise and manufactured outrage, I have received a better education than my degree provided me a decade ago. Descartes classic "I think therefore I am", I have taken and reversed to be more applicable to myself: "I am therefore I must think." I prefer to "think" about the matters that you both discuss. Once again, Thank You Doctors. Sit scientia mentis tuae sapientiam in cordibus nostris colens.
I am delighted to say that I find Dr. Peterson's UA-cam channel to be my form of continuing education at the age of 76. And I have learned more from his interviews (and a number of his friends' podcasts) than I ever did in all the years I went to university.
@@spinvalve I see, i like the turn on it. For me it comes down to pure survival. I exist, and to thrive i have to engage my faculties. Ironic, that my moral compass steers me against the grain of today's society's preconceived conditions for survival and integration.
I love your maxim, "I am therefore I must think"! It implies responsibility for the gift of rational thought. I've put it on my refrigerator along with Pascal and Peterson and Galileo. Kudos!
I appreciate how JP attempts to reiterate NF's comments after he has spoken. More interviewers should do this. I think NF makes some excellent points about apocalyptic thinking and the difficulty of political decision making.
I really want to commend Dr. Peterson for improving in the area of avoiding interrupting his guests. It used to be very distracting, but he has clearly worked on this.
Yes! The interrupting was so annoying. My long-argued claim that @JordanBPeterson's intellect approaches genius, that everyone should be listening, is infinitely more defensible minus the interruptions.
I'm am so glad that I stumbled across Jordan Peterson by watching an interview with Dr. Oz. I knew nothing of Dr. Peterson. I knew of Dr. Niall Ferguson through watching C-Span. These brilliant minds together on the subject of the Apocalypse which delve deeper into Revelation, more Biblical content but yet not being dogmatic is brilliant. Thank you.
Am I the only one who found this conversation deep and personally challenging, but laughed hysterically when Dr Ferguson declared he was a lapsed atheist and church goer at the end? So good Dr Peterson!! Thank you!!!
More than a few moments of hilarious genius, my favorite is Niall pointing out the “wrong headedness” of following the science. Both gentlemen deliver a special kind of divine / intellectual comedy. These talks are timeless.
“I am a lapsed atheist.” I didn’t see that coming! What a terrific conversation. It was like watching two heavyweight boxers. Then they started doing a beautiful waltz together. Well done guys.
A really fascinating conversation between a pragmatic Historian and a Psychologist steeped in Myth and religious ideas. Both approach from different perspectives but the concordence of ideas is enlightening. So much of the current landscape made sense after this exchange. The heart of the matter is nobility. To be exalted in character. Something sadly missing in public life.
11:14 If the Kingdom of God - as described in the Bible sounds dull to you, you haven't experienced gods presence, power and love in your life yet. There is nothingt comparable to it, and the only possible respons is to cry out "Holy holy holy" as the saints do... I truly wish such a life changing encounter to every one 🙌🏼🔥
@@lisaalexander1824 Are you open to Jesus being the way to encounter god? He claims that he is the only way - god might mean something different for different people, but Jesus is the way to get to him! Try reading the bible - it is Gods word to us. If you keep struggling, I'd recommend connecting with people who claim to have a close relationship with Jesus - maybe someone you know or try a local church which feels welcoming and true. By joining people who experience god, you can experience him. Keep asking, those who ask will get answers - and be ensured that God loves you and wants you to encounter him! I hope and pray you might soon have the encounter you are longing for!
PhD American history here. I am just beginning to appreciate Dr. Ferguson's work. Thanks, Dr. Peterson, for bringing him into the conversation of "who we are, and where the hell are we going?"
Those ending comments by Dr Peterson and then the admission of the recent change in his worldview by Dr Ferguson was straight 🔥🔥. Went directly to DW+ for the rest.
What a beautiful revelation at the end. Very relieved to know the Dr. is my brother in Christ. I enjoyed this insightful chat. I love listening and learning from knowledgeable and calm conversation. Thank you.
This was great. Throughout their discussion on all of the topics facing society that are all framed end of times issues, I couldn't help but constantly think of Elon's recent statement calling out what I believe Jordan and NIall were also covering and that's the issue of far too many only concerned with looking virtuous while actually doing and incentivizing evil, division, and destructiveness .
Peterson's observation that the doomsday authorities think they can, by claiming to be focussed on an apocalyptic end of the world, absolve themselves of dealing with any lesser crises reminds me of my time as an accident investigator. All investigators learn that every accident is caused by a string of errors, any one of which if corrected would have prevented the accident.
@@dabrack9350 Interesting, Funny I just started coming across more and more individuals in the Veteran community starting to call out their own that are known to be corrupt and have gained wealth and status by coverups at the top but still an unwillingness of the majority within that brotherhood to unite and call it out. Which really was a new perspective for me after 20+ years of watching and experiencing our country's leaders and institution's showing their true colors as well. Witnessing the insane over the top policies and actions, Over and over and still the silent majority remains quiet. So ya, It made more sense that even if our oath keeper warrior class is not calling it out en masse, Why would we expect everyday working class to do so. I've heard more and more claiming that 2024 is going to be the year for exposure, justice, and a reckoning.
Thank you for non university conversation . It's great to hear two university professors discussing real problems. This type of conversation is no longer possible in our Woke institutions.
An interesting aspect of the tower of babel is that it has a direction. It's moving towards " the throne of the most high' which means it's " progressing" toward " heaven" while simultaneously getting further away from its own foundation. Taking its history, it's people, and the very soil in which it sits, for granted. It's an "escape plan" of sorts but a perfect metaphor for how cultures descend into utopian delusions instead of embracing our role as Stuards of the earth and of each other. Without humility, we compete with our own offspring, and lose our ability to share a common history and narrative.
These people had the tradition of building ziggurats, and like with pyramids some of them start out too steep so they had to adjust when they came towards the top. Can you imagine some very ambitious king who wanted to build the highest ziggurat of them all, reaching "all the way into the heavens", and he was so blindingly pressing on with this "great task" that he had no understanding of it developing into a disaster? So all it ended up with was people splitting up, going each their way and not talking except to threaten each others with weapons, until so much time had gone that they developed each their language? These stories can actually work in the real world, you just have to read them as highly compressed by having been told over and over again through generations, and where you can't be picky with details either as they can have been changed by time. I find it quite interesting, as there can be some really old history hidden in here.
In fact this describes what happens with goberment institutions and their burocracy, it is like they speak a diferent language. It also applies in the.corporate world.
Love Niall Ferguson. Prescient in his books, and a clear thinker. Never miss Good Fellows from the Hoover Institute. Three sharp acadrmics and their guests discussing current events.
@@seanmoran2743True. Although I think the West should reassert itself (the best of it) in these chaotic and lying times. I hope one of these days they hook up with some Indians, possibly Abhirit Iyer Mitra..? (I’ve just recently started to check him out. Not what you’d call “a believer” but seems a promising historian). Some Jewish perspectives could be good, too, straddling East and West, as they do, while at the same time being foundational to the West. Just a thought (or perhaps a defensive reaction to your note that these guys are western-oriented.)
Thank you gentlemen for this interesting conversation. At about 17:00 Dr Peterson says something remarkable like. Conciousness needs an adventure, whereas sechiation fosters unconciousness. At about 20:00 Another remarkable statement. "There is no distinction from the lack of preparation to a natural disaster." At about 30:00 Dr Ferguson makes a highgly interesting proposition when he says that people commit asceticism when e.g. being vegetarian. This is such a brilliant combination, it makes so much sense. At about 40:00 how interesting to know that wars, financial crisis and wars are randomly distributed. I have listened to this conversation several times, as I found the information so intetesting and important and I have tried to best understand it. I just came back to add one specific thing my dad said to me, as he was referring also to his relatives. He said to be wary of too religious people and this stayed with me ever since. Wishing you all the best Dr Ferguson.
That’s a superficial statement. Fear can be used to control and divide but when fearing the correct thing it can control us which leads to self control with a basis and then can unite. Without fear there are no guard rails to contain one’s self and which leads to existential nihilism and/or luciferianism.
Today, I again respect and honor Dr.Peterson and his guest. The various ideas and speakings are really helpful to draw out what is happened around the world and atlas of modern academic trends. Thank you for presenting videos of this kind!
I leave loved over the years watching these two intellectually competent and famous men wrestle with their pride, and often win. What a great conversation
I’ve been listening to Jorden Peterson for several years now. This is the first time I’ve seen him really caught off guard at the end of the interview. Not going to give the ending away. Great interview as always
That is actually an important observation. I'm a psychologist and therapist - and have often touched on that subject more than you would think in conversations with patients. Especially with older educated men there seems to be an anger or resentment against a world that is obviously going to continue without them and they have not had the impact that they thought they were going to have. It seems to be more prominent in people that have lived a life like they have been following a script. It's almost like a cultleader that finally realise that his idiocy has been just that: Idiocy. Coming to a realisation that "I'm not as important as I once thought" is a massive job - that most people never achieve.
I watched the shorter excerpt of this interview. I was so impressed by the respectful tone and the patience shown by both during long comments. Dr. Peterson as the host allowed Dr. Ferguson to respond in full - and Dr. Ferguson listened to Dr. Peterson's remarks - neither giving any indication of impatience. They both had something to say and it was a thought-provoking discussion.
Mind stimulating, please come forward Dr.Nial Ferguson to make difference. Thank you very much Dr. Nial Ferguson and Dr.Peterson for this great episode.
Thank you. Gosh, I need time to process that - so many lights have switched on in my brain! What a great privilege to have instant free access to such brilliant minds.
I took away three major conclusions from that discussion that are very enlightening. I don't want to write a novel about what they are. But, the metaphorical imagery of the Tower of Babel was very instrumental and I think gets to the foundation of the problem that Ferguson is highlighting about the inefficacy of our modern world. Excellent discussion and guest.
Dr. Ferguson should also have his own podcast! I am glad that he participates in a lot of conversations that are made public on UA-cam, but I bet the DailyWire could help make that a reality without him having to worry about any technical aspect. They should definitely pitch him a business idea to have his insights more readily available to everyone that is interested. I'd love to see Dr. Ferguson achieving even more!
What a great piece of work. Thanks to the team. I think the line from Annie Lennox sums it up: "Dying is easy - it's living that scares me to death" - it should be on my T-shirt. Day to day, the impact of an asteroid, eruption of a super volcano etc, seems strangely cathartic to us all. It takes the edge off worrying about life's daily issues: paying your mortgage, electricity bill, issues with your relationships, the call from the garage to say your car needs a new Auto box as it's out-of-warranty, potential global domination by Ai and that small lump that doesn't seem to be going away... Apocalypses just appeal to us. We could put in the work and get our heads in a better space - but we are too busy, or too lazy. JM
i listened to this on the daily wire app but i wanted to come here to leave a comment. great interview between two people highly regarding in their fields. this provoked a lot of thoughts in me and has encouraged various paths forward for actions.
I started watching here and then finished it on the daily wire, and I found his conclusion at the end, that Christianity has historically been the greatest bulwark against communism, Marxism, fascism, and totalitarianism, to be extremely profound. Psalm 92: 5-6 "O Lord, how great are Your works! Your thoughts are very deep. A senseless man does not know, Nor does a fool understand this." The more one understands and studies history and the Bible, the more one sees that the only hope for humanity is the Lord Jesus Christ. It's encouraging to see these two men look at history more honestly than many, and to see honestly the truth of God that becomes clear with the study of history. I hope in the future that they both become saved and born again Christians. ❤️✝️
Thanks so much Dr Peterson and Dr Ferguson. A fascinating discussion which packed a real punch in a little over one hour. I loved the look of surprise on Dr Peterson's face when Dr Ferguson revealed that he is an ex-atheist. I went to a Monday night Christmas carol service today, which included a brilliant comedy interlude written by the vicar himself in which a Jeremy Kyle-style interviewer speaks to Mary and Joseph to find out whether all the rumours are true about Mary's pregnancy. The three parts were played by local RAF cadets. Brilliantly done, we just needed the phrase about " join us after the break when we reveal those DNA test results...". RIP Henry Kissinger who has recently died aged 100. There was a nasty headline in one of the leading US newspapers describing the late statesman as a "war criminal" which seemed harsh to me. Winston Churchill was a great statesman and it was tough on him to get voted out of 10 Downing Street in 1945. He was around 70 at the time and of course did return to the role of PM in 1951, the post-war Labour government was voted out after one term. Churchill suffered from depression at times, was known for his wonderful Sagittarian wit, was an accomplished painter, historian and writer and all this from a man whose teachers at Harrow did not expect him to do well in life. Churchill had that brilliant questioning mind that is so necessary today. There's a lovely quote about him wondering why on Earth they had to learn certain phrases in Latin lessons...."but when would one say "oh, table !" ? He attended various schools, including five years at Harrow, dropped out of Sandhurst military academy after a year and then went to Oxford University where he did not excel academically but was involved in all sorts of extra-curricular activities. He then joined the army of course. Britain could do with a leader of his level now but we are having to make do with Rishi Sunak with the very grim prospect of Sir Keir Starmer from 2024 onwards. We shall see ! Thanks again to Dr Peterson and Dr Ferguson for such a stimulating and thought-provoking interview.
Dazzling, astonishing. Niall Ferguson one of the most brilliant minds of our times a man of incredible intellectual capacity and boundless energy goes to church on Sunday. He is a lapsed atheist. Me too Niall, lapsed atheist now Christian for similar reason. My heartfelt thanks Jordan for revealing this in the interview.
Ferguson's point about the climate alarmists' asceticism qua absolution is spot on. Unfortunately, I think some alarmists have ventured beyond just asceticism. Policy to deny the developing world the same energy we enjoy in the developed world strikes me as a form of sacrifice. As if reducing emissions, or growth thereof, will propitiate 'Mother Nature' who will then save us from the supposed impending climate apocalypse.
The gleam in Niall's eye towards the end..."Actually, I'm a lapsed atheist, and I go to church every Sunday", and JP's glad surprise. I'd estimate millions of Gen Z/millennials are in this camp
I’d say I pretty much am. I still can’t believe in the existence of god as such but I’ve largely came around to think that there’s a lot of important truth and guidance in religious teachings that we would be fools to ignore. I define myself as an athiest that believes in the power of religion. I also pray sometimes. To who you then ask :) Not to a god but I’ll leave it at that for now as this ain’t a suitable medium to explore.
You'd be surprised at the psychological benefit of just believing there might be a god and what that might mean in terms of the notion that you were created from love as part of creation. @@jrsp6480
@@jrsp6480 The principle purpose of prayer is to give thanks. God is offended by those who do not profess His hand in all things. All good things do come from God. It is true we suffer war and disease and hardship etc. as we do live a in a fallen world. This fallen world is necessary, as we need to learn from our own experience the good from the evil, the sweet from the bitter, and that there is opposition in all things. God is the great creator - taking chaos and making order. So Jordan Peterson intuits correctly when he says "Go clean your bedroom" It is god-like behavior. God is the literal father of our spirits. We are created in his image, and likeness. This is not intended to be poetic or symbolic. God the great being that controls and orders this universe is in the form of a man. His name is Man of Holiness. Because we are his offspring , we have the potential to become like Him. The bridge between man and God is physical death, and spiritual death(sin). Because of Christ, all people on this earth will resurrect, and become immortal - thus conquering physical death. Spiritual death is only conquered through Christ on condition of repentance. God's most preferred title or name is Father, and while praying it is most pleasing to Him to address Him as such. Because God can not tolerate even the smallest of sins, we are only acceptable to Him through the merits of Christ. When praying it is pleasing to God that we pray in the name of Christ. I will stop there, as I know you didn't solicit a response, but your comment triggered me into speaking.
@@jrsp6480 As you talk to him and listen to his statutes, that is enough. The conceptualization of the person of "God" has been an ongoing struggle throughout human history
I don’t know who the sound engineer is for you Jordan, but I appreciate them. Sound is impeccable even though one person isn’t “in studio”. Fascinating interview.
Nial is such a great thinker and communicator. It is always a pleasure to listen to him, especially when discussing important ideas, events, issues, etc. Love the the news that he and his associates are starting a new University. Hey Nial! Any chance you can put together a new government?
If you do things for the society that makes it better for the society, then I say that you are making things better to yourself... then it's worth doing those things even if it's difficult...
John Carpenter's The Thing (1982), where the characters, while staying true to their personalities and professions, express what I believe to be some of the most realistic reactions to an imminent apocalypse that humans can have, its excellent writing if you ignore the expertly done body horror scenes that may not be appropriate for everyone.
I remember coming across and flicking through the book *Empire: How Britain Made the Modern World* a few years ago before I was aware of Prof Ferguson’s increasingly mainstream fame. I remember thinking about the book as being well researched and set out and wondered who this author was to be so good explaining the history of Britain. Great to see him now with JBP.
The end point in Jordan observing the rather opposing viewpoints offered by Niall was remarkable, a testament to the fact that Jordan is a keen listener, probably one of the reasons that make him so apt in his conversations and discipline. I had never heard of something called LAPSED ATHEISM. Again, as usual, great conversation! Thank you JBP.
Great that two such important thinkers and great communicators from different disciplines share their perspectives and analysis on a deep subject. Why don't we see such quality discussion in the MSM?
Stimulating conversation is putting it mildly if you ask me. I'm still trying to digest and I'm always a little surprised by exactly how much I understood. It's always possible that I have diluted myself into thinking that I understood more than I actually did...
Yes…you are quite right about people thinking that the Kingdom of God is boring…that’s what the enemy of our souls wants us to believe. Nothing can be further than the truth.
There is nothing more interesting than finding the right path in life ….. it’s taken me nearly 70 years of stumbling and getting it wrong to know the correct road and then still getting it wrong. The journey and the small things we do build up to who we really are.
Robert J Lifton made the same point that Niall did when he debated Steven Pinker on whether things have gotten better or worse in human history. Worth watching
A talk between Jordan Peterson and Tomas Sowell would break the internet
!!!
Nailed
Let him retire in peace as he wants to.
My dream😂😂😂
Yes. Sowell on the right & Henry Louis-Gates on the Left would be great.
So it seems college level discourse has left the campus and come to UA-cam where it can be accessible to everyone with a cell phone and a browser. It would seem culture is moving forward despite the common narrative from established interests. Thank you for this time well spent.
You sound like quite the intellectual❤
You've said very little with so many words.
It is good to see a certain calibre of thought and learning being readily available to everybody, I agree. That said. Quality discourse has always been around. And _'college level'_ is by no means the pinnacle of scholastic engagement in this world. In fact it often is detrimental as it can take years of independent study and research to unlearn some of the bad habits learned in some disciplines.
And the beauty is that it is "a la Carte"
@@hennersssOr he's said so much with so few words. It depends on the viewpoint of the individual • and the mindset of the thinker.
It blows my (average) mind to listen to such brilliance, but I'm not envious... in fact, I'm immensely thankful that I'm able to expand my own thinking and understanding by having these wondrous discussions so readily available to me. Thank you Dr. Peterson for the gift of these experiences.
We are truly privileged to be allowed to freely share in the minds of these great men.
As we all are
If you are not swiping tiktoks, have interest in such topics and the concentration to follow, you probably are above avarage.
@@BannedByMe Not much of an achievement if you ask me.
@@PrinceAlhorian in itself, is not an achievement.
The way these 2 brilliant men just talked is how we should be sorting out our world problems with integrity and respect and a genuine intellect and a genuine care and desire to fix things and not to have the arrogance of not listening truly to each other until we find the answers together, not for praise or popularity but for genuine want of a better state of being which will bring a better world, thanks again Mr peterson and all your guests
Unfortunately these type of thinkers don’t exist in Politics. They don’t have the temperament for dealing with other Dark personalities demanding what they want constantly. Not that I think Jordan is weak. But he’s no President Donald John Trump!!!!
This episode has totally blown my mind. Learned more from this conversation than the entirety of my three year university education. This is going to take a very long time and so much thought / reading to unpack. The ending was extraordinary. Absolutely first class content. Thank you both.
"solving global warming by installing solar cells created by burning coal in China" I love it! In one sentence, Niall vividly illustrates our political dystopian rule
Good observation. Sadly the western country citizens appear to long for some crying in the wilderness, without any actual suffering or any real effort, and latching onto climate crisis is the best social media conduit to dump endless bullshit into. And with that, getting to bask in the glow of some weird virtue, narcissistic tyrant PMs and geriatric presidents lack the balls or brain power to challenge the opinions of their voters, mostly because impressing the leaders of corrupt 3-letter international organizations is more important. It's 2023 and clear thinking has left the building.
Yes. Because research was never done into alternatives for the technology.
Now, we are at a point where we do this stuff now, or we fall. We have governments failing to recover from natural disasters, because they are getting more and more in number, are coming faster, and are stronger.
No government can cope with all of that going on, and govern the population that is not affected at the same time without outside assistance from other knowledge and other governments.
Things get created by burning coal. It is better to burn them creating renewables.
A propagandist and quack sit down and pontificate for an hour.
How else would they have been created? The parts for the first car were probably hauled on a cart pulled by a horse or a donkey. You're just being stupid hailing such a comment as some kind of wisdom.
Thank you doctors Peterson and Ferguson for this illuminating conversation and allowing us, the common folk with the simple minds, to indulge in a classical academic conversation. Civilized, educated, eloquent and enlightening. It is thanks to academics like yourselves (who still have critical minds and post their work publicly) that in this turbulent age of malaise and manufactured outrage, I have received a better education than my degree provided me a decade ago.
Descartes classic "I think therefore I am", I have taken and reversed to be more applicable to myself: "I am therefore I must think." I prefer to "think" about the matters that you both discuss.
Once again, Thank You Doctors.
Sit scientia mentis tuae sapientiam in cordibus nostris colens.
I think its one of the best ceremonies of our culture to listen appreciate and learn from brilliant minds discussing stuff. Long may it continue 🙏🙏.
I am delighted to say that I find Dr. Peterson's UA-cam channel to be my form of continuing education at the age of 76. And I have learned more from his interviews (and a number of his friends' podcasts) than I ever did in all the years I went to university.
My pre-extension of Descartes 'I think, therefore I am' is 'I question, therefore I think'. Admittedly less grandiose, but holds more true.
@@spinvalve I see, i like the turn on it.
For me it comes down to pure survival. I exist, and to thrive i have to engage my faculties. Ironic, that my moral compass steers me against the grain of today's society's preconceived conditions for survival and integration.
I love your maxim, "I am therefore I must think"! It implies responsibility for the gift of rational thought. I've put it on my refrigerator along with Pascal and Peterson and Galileo. Kudos!
I appreciate how JP attempts to reiterate NF's comments after he has spoken. More interviewers should do this. I think NF makes some excellent points about apocalyptic thinking and the difficulty of political decision making.
He talks about doing that as a good dialectic tool in some other vids. It's really helpful to me.
I agree, 100%, but it takes strong listening skills by the interviewer, which many people don't have, or refuse to learn.
I really want to commend Dr. Peterson for improving in the area of avoiding interrupting his guests. It used to be very distracting, but he has clearly worked on this.
Thank you. Return of health helps. As does less fear of on air silence.
What a graceful and humble response. Thank you@@JordanBPeterson
Yes! The interrupting was so annoying. My long-argued claim that @JordanBPeterson's intellect approaches genius, that everyone should be listening, is infinitely more defensible minus the interruptions.
It is an improvement. Could still improve.
@@JordanBPetersonI find some on air silence extremely powerful
I'm am so glad that I stumbled across Jordan Peterson by watching an interview with Dr. Oz. I knew nothing of Dr. Peterson. I knew of Dr. Niall Ferguson through watching C-Span. These brilliant minds together on the subject of the Apocalypse which delve deeper into Revelation, more Biblical content but yet not being dogmatic is brilliant. Thank you.
"The World Isn't Falling Apart , The Veil Of The World Wide Corruption Is" ... 100%
Yes 🔥🔥🔥
Couldn’t agree more! That’s what I've been saying to people around me. It’s good that the truth is finally shining and burning all the lies.
Truly yes and yet both...!
That is how you conduct a conversation. A Historian and a Psychologist managing to combine their understanding without interference.
Am I the only one who found this conversation deep and personally challenging, but laughed hysterically when Dr Ferguson declared he was a lapsed atheist and church goer at the end? So good Dr Peterson!! Thank you!!!
I loved that part.
@alfredosaint-jean9660 I've rewatched that part several times now... just awesome.
I agree. Brilliantly dramatic but also moving.
Love it
More than a few moments of hilarious genius, my favorite is Niall pointing out the “wrong headedness” of following the science. Both gentlemen deliver a special kind of divine / intellectual comedy. These talks are timeless.
Encore! What an enthralling masterpiece of intellectual artistry!
Encore? 😂😂😂😂😂 cmon now
@@TrillShvt Ya it means I want to see another one
Wow! This was not only an absolutely fascinating discussion, but also a completely surprising end to the discussion. 😲😃😌 Bravo! 👏🏻
“I am a lapsed atheist.” I didn’t see that coming! What a terrific conversation. It was like watching two heavyweight boxers. Then they started doing a beautiful waltz together. Well done guys.
Боксёры- тяжеловесы, исполняющие вальс - это ЛГБТ, так нельзя.
Finally, my two favourite people in a conversation. Love it!
Brilliant conversation, right? Thank you for being a shining a light in SA.
@@doc_philThank you very much sir!
@@doc_phil same with me. Now I’m just waiting for a talk with Thomas Sowel.
@@jackiebyerly7408 absolutely - I hope to JP and Sowell in conversation soon.
A really fascinating conversation between a pragmatic Historian and a Psychologist steeped in Myth and religious ideas. Both approach from different perspectives but the concordence of ideas is enlightening. So much of the current landscape made sense after this exchange.
The heart of the matter is nobility. To be exalted in character. Something sadly missing in public life.
This was a fascinating conversation!
Thank you for sharing Jordan and Niall 🙏
11:14
If the Kingdom of God - as described in the Bible sounds dull to you, you haven't experienced gods presence, power and love in your life yet. There is nothingt comparable to it, and the only possible respons is to cry out "Holy holy holy" as the saints do... I truly wish such a life changing encounter to every one 🙌🏼🔥
A B S O L U T E L Y
Amen. Just. Being in Jesus's presence is overwhelming joy. It's unbelievable but true.
I keep asking...but nothing...zip..Nada..
@@lisaalexander1824 Are you open to Jesus being the way to encounter god? He claims that he is the only way - god might mean something different for different people, but Jesus is the way to get to him! Try reading the bible - it is Gods word to us. If you keep struggling, I'd recommend connecting with people who claim to have a close relationship with Jesus - maybe someone you know or try a local church which feels welcoming and true. By joining people who experience god, you can experience him. Keep asking, those who ask will get answers - and be ensured that God loves you and wants you to encounter him! I hope and pray you might soon have the encounter you are longing for!
ABSOLUTELY
PhD American history here. I am just beginning to appreciate Dr. Ferguson's work. Thanks, Dr. Peterson, for bringing him into the conversation of "who we are, and where the hell are we going?"
Those ending comments by Dr Peterson and then the admission of the recent change in his worldview by Dr Ferguson was straight 🔥🔥. Went directly to DW+ for the rest.
Niall Ferguson -- a true thinker with wisdom and understanding. And he also has a beautiful way of expressing himself.
The Scottish accent helps!
His "beautiful way of expressing himself" makes it easier to slip in some awful ideas.
@@mariannefischer3613 Do tell us what they are, Marianne…..
This is pure GOLD! 🤩🙏
An adult conversation. So rare these days. Thank you!
What a beautiful revelation at the end. Very relieved to know the Dr. is my brother in Christ. I enjoyed this insightful chat. I love listening and learning from knowledgeable and calm conversation. Thank you.
I loved this episode! Keep up the great work, Dr.Peterson!
Kako treči svijetski rat kad ni prvi nije još završio .😮 ? Hvala na vašem radu!❤❤❤
This was great. Throughout their discussion on all of the topics facing society that are all framed end of times issues, I couldn't help but constantly think of Elon's recent statement calling out what I believe Jordan and NIall were also covering and that's the issue of far too many only concerned with looking virtuous while actually doing and incentivizing evil, division, and destructiveness .
Well said.
Peterson's observation that the doomsday authorities think they can, by claiming to be focussed on an apocalyptic end of the world, absolve themselves of dealing with any lesser crises reminds me of my time as an accident investigator. All investigators learn that every accident is caused by a string of errors, any one of which if corrected would have prevented the accident.
@@dabrack9350 Interesting, Funny I just started coming across more and more individuals in the Veteran community starting to call out their own that are known to be corrupt and have gained wealth and status by coverups at the top but still an unwillingness of the majority within that brotherhood to unite and call it out. Which really was a new perspective for me after 20+ years of watching and experiencing our country's leaders and institution's showing their true colors as well. Witnessing the insane over the top policies and actions, Over and over and still the silent majority remains quiet. So ya, It made more sense that even if our oath keeper warrior class is not calling it out en masse, Why would we expect everyday working class to do so. I've heard more and more claiming that 2024 is going to be the year for exposure, justice, and a reckoning.
@@dabrack9350This is a profoundly important insight.
Thank you for non university conversation . It's great to hear two university professors discussing real problems. This type of conversation is no longer possible in our Woke institutions.
Great interview. Niall and Jordan seem equally assertive which made for a well balanced conversation.
An interesting aspect of the tower of babel is that it has a direction. It's moving towards " the throne of the most high' which means it's " progressing" toward " heaven" while simultaneously getting further away from its own foundation. Taking its history, it's people, and the very soil in which it sits, for granted. It's an "escape plan" of sorts but a perfect metaphor for how cultures descend into utopian delusions instead of embracing our role as Stuards of the earth and of each other. Without humility, we compete with our own offspring, and lose our ability to share a common history and narrative.
These people had the tradition of building ziggurats, and like with pyramids some of them start out too steep so they had to adjust when they came towards the top. Can you imagine some very ambitious king who wanted to build the highest ziggurat of them all, reaching "all the way into the heavens", and he was so blindingly pressing on with this "great task" that he had no understanding of it developing into a disaster? So all it ended up with was people splitting up, going each their way and not talking except to threaten each others with weapons, until so much time had gone that they developed each their language?
These stories can actually work in the real world, you just have to read them as highly compressed by having been told over and over again through generations, and where you can't be picky with details either as they can have been changed by time. I find it quite interesting, as there can be some really old history hidden in here.
In fact this describes what happens with goberment institutions and their burocracy, it is like they speak a diferent language. It also applies in the.corporate world.
Babel exists when there's insufficient opposition to bad ideas
@@darrenwolff3745that distillation is really good, works for me...
Well said !
Love Niall Ferguson. Prescient in his books, and a clear thinker. Never miss Good Fellows from the Hoover Institute. Three sharp acadrmics and their guests discussing current events.
I was once a Good Fellows Lover. Only show up for Naill and If the have VHD. Mostly they are Necons Mcmasters so excited with War....
It’s very Western Centric though
@@Ironrodpowerbut don’t you gotta love Peter Robinson? I do.
@@seanmoran2743True. Although I think the West should reassert itself (the best of it) in these chaotic and lying times. I hope one of these days they hook up with some Indians, possibly Abhirit Iyer Mitra..? (I’ve just recently started to check him out. Not what you’d call “a believer” but seems a promising historian). Some Jewish perspectives could be good, too, straddling East and West, as they do, while at the same time being foundational to the West. Just a thought (or perhaps a defensive reaction to your note that these guys are western-oriented.)
I do like his show! @@patriciakimball8150
Thank you gentlemen for this interesting conversation.
At about 17:00 Dr Peterson says something remarkable like. Conciousness needs an adventure, whereas sechiation fosters unconciousness.
At about 20:00 Another remarkable statement. "There is no distinction from the lack of preparation to a natural disaster."
At about 30:00 Dr Ferguson makes a highgly interesting proposition when he says that people commit asceticism when e.g. being vegetarian. This is such a brilliant combination, it makes so much sense.
At about 40:00 how interesting to know that wars, financial crisis and wars are randomly distributed.
I have listened to this conversation several times, as I found the information so intetesting and important and I have tried to best understand it. I just came back to add one specific thing my dad said to me, as he was referring also to his relatives. He said to be wary of too religious people and this stayed with me ever since.
Wishing you all the best Dr Ferguson.
Fear is used to control and divide us. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book.
You mean like the fear of hell?
You’re reading the wrong books 📚
That’s a superficial statement. Fear can be used to control and divide but when fearing the correct thing it can control us which leads to self control with a basis and then can unite. Without fear there are no guard rails to contain one’s self and which leads to existential nihilism and/or luciferianism.
It's not fear like you think it is. It's fear of using ANOTHER year of my youth to the jealousy of women who HATE me
It's my youth that's under attack. It's my beauty. In that youth.
This is one of those videos where I want to hit the like button over and over again.
Today, I again respect and honor Dr.Peterson and his guest. The various ideas and speakings are really helpful to draw out what is happened around the world and atlas of modern academic trends. Thank you for presenting videos of this kind!
At last! We learn so much from these discourses, and are grateful. 😊
Thank you both for this excellent conversation.
I leave loved over the years watching these two intellectually competent and famous men wrestle with their pride, and often win. What a great conversation
I’ve been listening to Jorden Peterson for several years now. This is the first time I’ve seen him really caught off guard at the end of the interview. Not going to give the ending away. Great interview as always
Excellent conversation gentlemen. Thank you. You’ve made me think deeply and taught me things I’d not realised.
The ego is insulted that the world will just go,on without them
Exactly. So we are to get over it, and tend to our own backyard right now. Peterson's best advice.
That is actually an important observation. I'm a psychologist and therapist - and have often touched on that subject more than you would think in conversations with patients. Especially with older educated men there seems to be an anger or resentment against a world that is obviously going to continue without them and they have not had the impact that they thought they were going to have. It seems to be more prominent in people that have lived a life like they have been following a script. It's almost like a cultleader that finally realise that his idiocy has been just that: Idiocy. Coming to a realisation that "I'm not as important as I once thought" is a massive job - that most people never achieve.
I watched the shorter excerpt of this interview. I was so impressed by the respectful tone and the patience shown by both during long comments. Dr. Peterson as the host allowed Dr. Ferguson to respond in full - and Dr. Ferguson listened to Dr. Peterson's remarks - neither giving any indication of impatience. They both had something to say and it was a thought-provoking discussion.
Professor Ferguson is always interesting. It’s great to see he is still as sharp as ever.
Mind stimulating, please come forward Dr.Nial Ferguson to make difference. Thank you very much Dr. Nial Ferguson and Dr.Peterson for this great episode.
Delightful episode. Thanks for posting!
Thank you. Gosh, I need time to process that - so many lights have switched on in my brain! What a great privilege to have instant free access to such brilliant minds.
I would love to see Thomas Sowell and Jordan in an interview
My two favorites
Agreed. I would love to see that one.
Likely not long left for Sowell so they should make it happen!
Likely not long left for Sowell so they should make it happen!
@@Alex-mj5dv To me it’s absolutely amazing that Thomas is still as sharp now as he was in his videos from 50 years ago.
I took away three major conclusions from that discussion that are very enlightening. I don't want to write a novel about what they are. But, the metaphorical imagery of the Tower of Babel was very instrumental and I think gets to the foundation of the problem that Ferguson is highlighting about the inefficacy of our modern world. Excellent discussion and guest.
Dr. Ferguson should also have his own podcast! I am glad that he participates in a lot of conversations that are made public on UA-cam, but I bet the DailyWire could help make that a reality without him having to worry about any technical aspect. They should definitely pitch him a business idea to have his insights more readily available to everyone that is interested. I'd love to see Dr. Ferguson achieving even more!
I fully agree. I tire of hearing Peterson expound his views of the Bible and would've appreciated far more from Ferguson.
What a great piece of work. Thanks to the team.
I think the line from Annie Lennox sums it up: "Dying is easy - it's living that scares me to death" - it should be on my T-shirt.
Day to day, the impact of an asteroid, eruption of a super volcano etc, seems strangely cathartic to us all. It takes the edge off worrying about life's daily issues: paying your mortgage, electricity bill, issues with your relationships, the call from the garage to say your car needs a new Auto box as it's out-of-warranty, potential global domination by Ai and that small lump that doesn't seem to be going away...
Apocalypses just appeal to us.
We could put in the work and get our heads in a better space - but we are too busy, or too lazy.
JM
I'm so thankfull that Jordan is doing what he is doing.
That is because you don't know what he is doing. Sorry to burst your bubble
i listened to this on the daily wire app but i wanted to come here to leave a comment. great interview between two people highly regarding in their fields. this provoked a lot of thoughts in me and has encouraged various paths forward for actions.
I started watching here and then finished it on the daily wire, and I found his conclusion at the end, that Christianity has historically been the greatest bulwark against communism, Marxism, fascism, and totalitarianism, to be extremely profound.
Psalm 92: 5-6
"O Lord, how great are Your works! Your thoughts are very deep.
A senseless man does not know, Nor does a fool understand this."
The more one understands and studies history and the Bible, the more one sees that the only hope for humanity is the Lord Jesus Christ. It's encouraging to see these two men look at history more honestly than many, and to see honestly the truth of God that becomes clear with the study of history. I hope in the future that they both become saved and born again Christians. ❤️✝️
Thanks so much Dr Peterson and Dr Ferguson. A fascinating discussion which packed a real punch in a little over one hour. I loved the look of surprise on Dr Peterson's face when Dr Ferguson revealed that he is an ex-atheist. I went to a Monday night Christmas carol service today, which included a brilliant comedy interlude written by the vicar himself in which a Jeremy Kyle-style interviewer speaks to Mary and Joseph to find out whether all the rumours are true about Mary's pregnancy. The three parts were played by local RAF cadets. Brilliantly done, we just needed the phrase about " join us after the break when we reveal those DNA test results...". RIP Henry Kissinger who has recently died aged 100. There was a nasty headline in one of the leading US newspapers describing the late statesman as a "war criminal" which seemed harsh to me. Winston Churchill was a great statesman and it was tough on him to get voted out of 10 Downing Street in 1945. He was around 70 at the time and of course did return to the role of PM in 1951, the post-war Labour government was voted out after one term. Churchill suffered from depression at times, was known for his wonderful Sagittarian wit, was an accomplished painter, historian and writer and all this from a man whose teachers at Harrow did not expect him to do well in life. Churchill had that brilliant questioning mind that is so necessary today. There's a lovely quote about him wondering why on Earth they had to learn certain phrases in Latin lessons...."but when would one say "oh, table !" ? He attended various schools, including five years at Harrow, dropped out of Sandhurst military academy after a year and then went to Oxford University where he did not excel academically but was involved in all sorts of extra-curricular activities. He then joined the army of course. Britain could do with a leader of his level now but we are having to make do with Rishi Sunak with the very grim prospect of Sir Keir Starmer from 2024 onwards. We shall see ! Thanks again to Dr Peterson and Dr Ferguson for such a stimulating and thought-provoking interview.
It's so heartening to see people able to disagree in a civilised fashion
One person can mess thinks up, a committee can make a real mess but it takes a government using other peoples money to create a disaster
And now governments are beholden to globalists
Much appreciation to you both for this noteworthy discussion.
Two courageous men. Thank you.
Thanks!
Sometimes we plant, sometimes we water, and occasionally reap the harvest.. fascinating interview
Fascinating conversation of two very intelligent men !
Brilliant discussion between brilliant men. Thank you for sharing this.
Dazzling, astonishing. Niall Ferguson one of the most brilliant minds of our times a man of incredible intellectual capacity and boundless energy goes to church on Sunday. He is a lapsed atheist. Me too Niall, lapsed atheist now Christian for similar reason.
My heartfelt thanks Jordan for revealing this in the interview.
Ferguson's point about the climate alarmists' asceticism qua absolution is spot on. Unfortunately, I think some alarmists have ventured beyond just asceticism. Policy to deny the developing world the same energy we enjoy in the developed world strikes me as a form of sacrifice. As if reducing emissions, or growth thereof, will propitiate 'Mother Nature' who will then save us from the supposed impending climate apocalypse.
Thanks!
Brain food. I absolutely love discord like this! And fact that the Bible is referenced multiple times, in positive light, is awesome. Thank you God.
Thank you for everything you do... you have saved us for sure..
Brilliant conversation.
The gleam in Niall's eye towards the end..."Actually, I'm a lapsed atheist, and I go to church every Sunday", and JP's glad surprise. I'd estimate millions of Gen Z/millennials are in this camp
Second Religiosity anyone?
I’d say I pretty much am. I still can’t believe in the existence of god as such but I’ve largely came around to think that there’s a lot of important truth and guidance in religious teachings that we would be fools to ignore.
I define myself as an athiest that believes in the power of religion. I also pray sometimes.
To who you then ask :)
Not to a god but I’ll leave it at that for now as this ain’t a suitable medium to explore.
You'd be surprised at the psychological benefit of just believing there might be a god and what that might mean in terms of the notion that you were created from love as part of creation. @@jrsp6480
@@jrsp6480 The principle purpose of prayer is to give thanks. God is offended by those who do not profess His hand in all things. All good things do come from God. It is true we suffer war and disease and hardship etc. as we do live a in a fallen world. This fallen world is necessary, as we need to learn from our own experience the good from the evil, the sweet from the bitter, and that there is opposition in all things. God is the great creator - taking chaos and making order. So Jordan Peterson intuits correctly when he says "Go clean your bedroom" It is god-like behavior.
God is the literal father of our spirits. We are created in his image, and likeness. This is not intended to be poetic or symbolic. God the great being that controls and orders this universe is in the form of a man. His name is Man of Holiness. Because we are his offspring , we have the potential to become like Him. The bridge between man and God is physical death, and spiritual death(sin). Because of Christ, all people on this earth will resurrect, and become immortal - thus conquering physical death. Spiritual death is only conquered through Christ on condition of repentance. God's most preferred title or name is Father, and while praying it is most pleasing to Him to address Him as such. Because God can not tolerate even the smallest of sins, we are only acceptable to Him through the merits of Christ. When praying it is pleasing to God that we pray in the name of Christ.
I will stop there, as I know you didn't solicit a response, but your comment triggered me into speaking.
@@jrsp6480 As you talk to him and listen to his statutes, that is enough. The conceptualization of the person of "God" has been an ongoing struggle throughout human history
Thank you, both of you.
First comment. Excited for this podcast. Thank you Dr. Peterson for the good work your doing, an inspiration for all of us.
I don’t know who the sound engineer is for you Jordan, but I appreciate them. Sound is impeccable even though one person isn’t “in studio”. Fascinating interview.
"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." Jesus Christ.
amen
Amen
Nial is such a great thinker and communicator. It is always a pleasure to listen to him, especially when discussing important ideas, events, issues, etc.
Love the the news that he and his associates are starting a new University.
Hey Nial! Any chance you can put together a new government?
Fantastic twist at the end! Subverted my expectations. Dr P masterfully extracted Dr F's confession.
If you do things for the society that makes it better for the society, then I say that you are making things better to yourself... then it's worth doing those things even if it's difficult...
John Carpenter's The Thing (1982), where the characters, while staying true to their personalities and professions, express what I believe to be some of the most realistic reactions to an imminent apocalypse that humans can have, its excellent writing if you ignore the expertly done body horror scenes that may not be appropriate for everyone.
Very interesting conversation. And what a surprising twist at the end. Wonderful.
I remember coming across and flicking through the book *Empire: How Britain Made the Modern World* a few years ago before I was aware of Prof Ferguson’s increasingly mainstream fame. I remember thinking about the book as being well researched and set out and wondered who this author was to be so good explaining the history of Britain. Great to see him now with JBP.
I wasn't sure what to expect from this conversation considering the thumbnail but I'm very glad I watched it all.
The end point in Jordan observing the rather opposing viewpoints offered by Niall was remarkable, a testament to the fact that Jordan is a keen listener, probably one of the reasons that make him so apt in his conversations and discipline. I had never heard of something called LAPSED ATHEISM. Again, as usual, great conversation! Thank you JBP.
interesting discussion! props to both 🙌
Wow! You guys! Stellar conversation; so stimulating!
Analytical enquiry & discourse at its best. Thank you both for an extremely stimulating exchange & examination.
Looking forward to a real discussion thanks Dr. P 🤙. 🤜🤛
Great that two such important thinkers and great communicators from different disciplines share their perspectives and analysis on a deep subject. Why don't we see such quality discussion in the MSM?
Stimulating conversation is putting it mildly if you ask me. I'm still trying to digest and I'm always a little surprised by exactly how much I understood.
It's always possible that I have diluted myself into thinking that I understood more than I actually did...
Deluded or diluted? Perhaps both? Agree with your comment. TY!
Wow this podcast is way better than i expected. More of this philosophical podcasts will be appreciated Jordan.
Yes…you are quite right about people thinking that the Kingdom of God is boring…that’s what the enemy of our souls wants us to believe. Nothing can be further than the truth.
People need to read Randy Alcorn's book, Heaven. He is very thorough, and puts that idea to rest quite decisively.
@@sarahwong5592 I’ll have to check that out! Thank you
Really hard to think God needs Humans.... We are just entertainment for God
There is nothing more interesting than finding the right path in life ….. it’s taken me nearly 70 years of stumbling and getting it wrong to know the correct road and then still getting it wrong. The journey and the small things we do build up to who we really are.
Wow! One of the best JP talks so far, I think.
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with me. 🙏🏻
Thank you for the discussion, very stimulating. 🙏
Robert J Lifton made the same point that Niall did when he debated Steven Pinker on whether things have gotten better or worse in human history. Worth watching
Fantastic conversation gentlemen. Thank you for your wisdom and willingness to discuss.
I was reading a book this gentlemen wrote called The West and the Rest, pretty cool to see him in person here!
Excellent, truly excellent. You two in the same room has as Hercule Poirot would say, stimulated my little grey cells immensely.
What an excellent conversation. I vary much enjoyed this podcast.
Fighting truth.... As old as time itself. Wonderful exchange of ideals.