I used the Lee collet die on a 303 British and with a Lee three hole turret press. Using a Forster bench rest seating die I got consistent bullet run-out of less then 1thou. That old riffle would pattern 10 shots @100 yards in .27 centers!
Those cheap lee dies will give you darn near perfect ammo everytime. WAY better than even the most expensive dies you can buy. Couple that Lee collet neck sizer with a Redding body die and you will have found the answer to nearly zero run-out in your finished loads.
Lee makes their tools in a State that allows them to pay a machinist a low wage. That low overhead is passed on to the customer. Redding on the other hand is made in a different State that may have a Union base of employed machinists, where they pay their employee's a higher wage. That too is passed on to the customer.
Well done video. Can't understand why more high accuracy shooters have not discovered the precision that the lee collet neck die produces. Someone else noted that if you use the Lee Collet with a Redding body sizing die you have an excellent case with almost zero run out when properly adjusted. I agree and have been doing so for some years now.
I realized this is quite an old video but I had to make comments on it. For what it is that Lee collet die is actually quite functional. I have had it iron out neck concentricity issues without having turn necks which is quite nice. But that is essentially the effect you are getting. It ironed out your necks. I shoot in the heavy 1000yd benchrest class here in Central Texas and I have used that die for competitive ammo. We were so resistant to doing any formal sizing on our brass, that we would have to beat our bolts closed with mallets to retain a good case dimension after using the Lee die several times. Now I use a full set of custom Wilson dies but I like that Lee die and I have never used the Hornady die so I can't speak for it. But I think I paid $16US for my Lee die. You can't even get a good pizza for that right now 😁. Cheers man!
13 years ago - totally forgot about that video! :) I still use a Lee collet neck die, but generally just to push any neck thickness variation to the outside before neck turning. Brilliant for that. For normal sizing, I use a full length die all the time these days. I like the consistency (on target) by bumping the shoulder 2 thou every time. Consistency is everything. Thanks for the comment - good memories from that time :)
I selected 10 pieces of 223 brass each for a: Lee Collet neck die Forster FL die with neck honed out at factory Redding FL "S" die RCBS FL die I shot many times each at 66kpsi and measured case growth and concentricity run out. The Lee Collet Neck Die is the winner in concentricity by ~50%, but the number of firings between trimmings compared to a small amount of shoulder set back was a 2000% improvement with the Lee. I learned to keep the brass dedicated to a particular .223 rifle.
I've read and seen others that remove the button/ball on other dies precisely because pulling the expander through the neck introduces runout, but they were also doing full length sizing.
Would have liked to to see the "before" runout. Then run the Hornady sized brass thru the Lee and see any improvement. A very good comparison and good video. 11 years later.👍
Great video and presentation Beer thank you. I have had good success with Lee and I have RCBS,LYMAN and Pacific. It really bugs my butt that folks bad mouth Lee as they are affordable to a lot of folks that have a budget. Most never even tried Lee and are just heralding other folks. I have seen NEF rifles out shoot Weatherbys so on ,so on, ETC,ETC.
" I don't like that I have to use the instructions in the Lee Die set to set up the Die according to the Directions of the manufacturer. " And that is why people complain about Lee Precision Products.
Fantastic video, I have the same equipment and will replicate your test. For those who wonder why Lee always seems to do things differently, my response is often times there is a better way!
I like how your press dies are loaded, I get excellent results with my Lee collet neck sizing dies as well, I find them easy to use and they give great results. Thanks! for the great video.
When i started loading i was a bit dubious at Lee stuff because of price, but friends and shop staff all spoke highly of Lee stuff so i went with it. I get single digit ES and .5 MOA groups out of my 6.5 cm using Lee dies.
I noticed when you used the Hornady die the table vibrated somewhat indicating you were using a considerable amount of extra effort to resize the case. On the other hand the Lee die resized very smoothly. I like it! I have just had a disaster with my Hornady resizing die. Even with lube applied, while resizing, I had to use extra effort in raising the case into the die. This time, the case jammed and I can't get the thing out! An expensive die which is of no use anymore! I'm off to buy a Lee!
Just bought the Lee "C" single stage press to use with a collet bullet puller. After seeing the quality of this, their cheapest press ($37 at full price), I'm a lot more open to trying their dies. This video just reinforced that opinion. I'm a retired machinist, so I don't generally "buy labels" unless that's all I have to go on.
I like the LEE collet dies for neck sizing best and use then for all my reloading except the ones they don't make. Simple dies that are cost effective and do the job well as you have shown, no lube required and the least amount of stress to the brass gives the longest case life, the other brands neck sizing method actually under sizes the neck which is why they need a built in expander to bring it back to the correct size which can cause case stretching. Makes me also wonder why LEE don't make more collet dies for more cartridges as they are simple and easy to make...
I love it! It amazes me how many folks speak so poorly of Lee dies (and their products in general). Those blew the Hornady dies away and I love Hornady dies. I have a LNL-AP by Hornady and a Breech Lock Challenger by Lee. The fit and finish on the cheapo Lee press is significantly better and it performs excellently
Very good and I have had similar experience with neck sizing. Oddly, I am finding it opposite with the full length resizing! The Lee dies are giving me a good deal of bullet runout where the Hornady dies are giving me near perfect ammo. Not sure if it is from seating or resizing or both yet. Perhaps it is something simple or something I am doing wrong, just need to test further (which is why I am here, hoping to get some insight). Good video.
Why would neck of the case runout matter if the neck runout of the chamber is unknown? Even if chamber neck runout is known, given cartridges are axially symmetric, it wouldn't matter. Given the variables involved in the flight of a bullet, a few microns here and there just makes money for the reloading Industry. Hats off to Richard Lee and his company for an honest low bullshit approach to reloading.
If this kind of attention to detail in hand loading does not appeal to you, you do not have to do it. Many people enjoy hand loading and the results they get from accurate ammunition.
I have two Lee Collet Neck Dies and initially the collet would get stuck after substantial use and stick inside of the upper part. As long as I kept using the same cases with similar neck wall thickness it still functioned. Then I sanded the outside of the collet with that 1500 sandpaper (black) after I applied some water on the paper and removed all that excess grungy material on the surface and also inside of the upper part and now the collet doesn't stick anymore. Why I have two dies is because I removed the primer pin from one of the dies so when the neck wasn't set properly and the bullet did not seat properly all I have to do is remove the bullet and powder and resize the case neck without removing the primer.
Can't beat a Lee collet and everyone who has one knows this ! Body die and the collet, perfect together. One problem though, you can't decrease neck tension with it, you can only increase it.
Thanks for the vid, I am a huge fan of lee dies but I was watching this to see your press in action. I am thinking of getting a forster coaxial but was courious how well they work.
This shows all of the arrogant and snuddy reloading creame puffs that lee is well worth the money and more. All of the Readings and others just charge us to much. Thanks great video!!
This video was a blast from the past! The Lee stuff generally (but not always) works very well. There are better dies out there, but not at the lower end of the market.
Sir i use all of the die companies and they make good products, but each of these companies have things the other don't have, however some like Reading is always sky high and they dont work any better than lee . Crimping magnum revolver cartridges is tough in terms of stopping crimp jump, however the Lee collet style crimp die is the best and no came close. In 35 years of reloading lee seems to be as good and better in many cases but affordable. Lee has some items that need improvement like the the powder measure and expanding dies. As a engineer i look at this from that point of view. Thanks
Thank you for your vid. I really like Lee stuff. I use it to reload .308 for F-class. If i do my part I can place in the top 20. For 1/2 to 1/4 the cost of the other guys
I would like to see the test done again and this time try wiping the necks off before measuring for better comparison -- notice how much the RCBS Case Master needle moves with simple finger pressure differences. Yes, I own a Forster Co-Ax press along with a RCBS RCII & Hornady LNL AP press - I use Competition Dies from Forster & Redding and I also own dies from Lee, Lyman, RCBS, Redding & Forster - NO Dillon Dies yet!! I like the Lee Collet Dies and I also like the Lee Factory Crimp Dies.
I had no luck with hornady dies. I think Lee dies are great. Forster I think is a close competitor in performance or better but not by much. But Lee does it at half the price. Forster dies in my experience outlast Lee dies and have a much better warranty and customer service. Forster will customize dies for $15 dollars if I remember right.
@ROBERTLUCIAn Sorry, I meant when you don't use the collet die. I have the Lee dies but I full lenght size new cases and I make sure I lube the neck inside the case with a q tip and a bit of Imperial wax, see you have a can of that too.
@BeerHunterabc They were adjusted to the instructions specs. For some reason they took too much pressure to use. The one for my 7.5x55 swiss works just fine with hardly no pressure to use, but it doesn't size the necks down enough. They should be about .302-.303, not .306.
Some people in these comments mention getting extreme runout in neck-sized cases but little runout in full length resized cases. Well if you think about it, since the neck die does not touch the case body, it can't align the case body, and so runout in a neck-sized case could be a reflection of what the runout was going INTO the die. If your gun has a bad chamber, only a FL die can grab both neck and body at once and re-align them again. Another factor could be how well aligned the case body or case head was to the die as the case went into the neck size die. A bad shellholder or a case head not slid all the way into the shellholder could mean a slightly angled case body as the neck is formed into a non-angled configuration. Result: misalignment between body and neck. The small amounts of runout measured in this video, even from the "worse" die, are probably due to variations in brass hardness rather than from any crookedness of the die. Apparently the Lee concept handles those hardness variations better.
I think your decimal is placed wrong but I've had the same problem with the same calibre, 7mm mauser. My collet die would create incredible amounts of runnout .006-.010 and my full length lee resizing die will create consistent .002 or less. I also have a collet die for my 308 and it produces under .001. Wonder if there is something up with their 7mm mauser collets. whats your reload recipe? Mine is 140 sierra game kings and 50 gr of H414 rem brass full length resize, win primers, 3.00 COL
Can I suggest you measure your case body at being round and not egg shaped in its sections as it rubes on those balance points on that Hornady tool. But I can see your comparison shows the Lee Brand die is better at what you wanted to accomplished.
becarful too not to lube the necks to much because when you are ready to put powder, some powder will stick to the inside of the necks. Thanks for the vid!
I am useing Lee collect die for 7mm Mauser. I have a measurement of .0005 to .0009 run out on my Resized 50+ cases. I necked turned, fired them & again re-sized them with collect die , unfortunately same runout. Where as I have used Lee FL die for Neck sizing only same cases run-out measured .0001 to .0002. Please advise how to reduce the run-out using Collect die. Thank you. Regards
The Lee collet die forces the case neck against a mandrel that is held stationary in the center axis of the brass case. The mandrel does not move as the case is forced up into the die because it is held at the flash hole AND the die as your reloading press lever is moved. Other dies have the " neck expander ball" hanging in free air as the case is withdrawn from the die. Runout can be induced OR untouched by other size dies. If you also anneal your brass, any runout will be drastically reduced.
Nice video, but it looks like the case necks are dirty. I wet tumble my brass with stainless steel before neck sizing. I don't want dirt getting in the dies, and I suspect dirt might be affecting your measurements. Thoughts?
The necks were turned which leaves scratches which I think you are seeing. Before the video the cases were ultrasonically cleaned which also often leaves stains on the cases. They certainly were not dirty.
Thanks fo rthe video! You adjusted the Lee die not as the instructions say (deep enough to prevent the press from toggling over) - is there a reason for that? I guess your method is more difficult to adjust, but results in a more even neck tension?
Lee says to not cam over because you can damage the collet. I agree and if I cam over I just to it ever so slightly to avoid damaging the collet. To straiten new cases deformed by tumble polishing sometimes I will leave them in the co ax for extended periods of time to true the necks and so I will cam over lightly and let the case sit in the die... same thing with the full length die. I just cam over and let the case sit in the die.
Can't argue with Kevin's results but yeah, LEE instructs to screw the die down two turns more so that the press never toggles or hits its stops. You can literally feel the collet sizing the neck. Very much pressure above that is not useful and can be harmful. Love those collet dies!
I want that press, what is it..forester? Idont know why so many people rag on Lee dies...its like people are die snobs just like scope snobs. I guess they feel since lee is less expensive they are no good, but Ive used RCBS, Hornady, Lyman and Lee dies and the Lee are my favorite. I haven't tried the forester neck bushing die that will bump the should as well if you want, but the Lee collet dies are THE best neck sizer dies out there
You're right about the press, which is a Forster Co-Ax. It costs about twice as much as say an RCBS Rochchucker or Hornady Lock-N-Load, but it's a fantastic press that I would have gotten if I hadn't originally bought a Rockchucker. The Rochchucker is still a damn good press that even now serves me well, over twenty years later.
There is a bit to it than that. Lee has some great products, some crap, and everything in between. Sometimes they have great ideas but the execution is bad. A lot of people hate them is because Richard is such a great propagandist for himself.
DO not push hard with the lee collet die. . I full length size 1st with a Redding small base full body die for 223. This leaves the case mouth ID at a little larger than 0.224". Then when I size the neck I can definitely feel the neck being re-sized. If you push too hard you can strip the threads on the aluminum plug on the top. I know from personal experience. If you want to be supper accurate spin the round about 90 degrees and give it a 2nd cycle into the die. I get just about a perfect 0.002" interference fit with 224 bullets in 223 brass.
+groovymoon Hi, you may want to check how you have the die set up if you have stripped the threads. The correct setup is with the die set to just cam over. In this way it is impossible to strip the threads and you get a repeatable result. If it is not set to cam over, you will be manually exerting slightly different pressure every time.
Nah... I just pushed WAY to hard on the handle and popped it. With the Redding Full Body Die the case mouth is left with an ID of just around 0.225. I have learned the feel of when the Lee Collet die squishes the neck ID down. It kind of feels like setting a primer but shorter. It is very consistent according to my neck tension die. In any case all is good now.
Cam over is when the force on your lever reaches a peak and you hear a pop as the press "cams over".... DO NOT do this with the collet neck sizing die. You will break it. The die does not take a lot of force. You can feel it squish the neck back to size... kindof like what a primer seating feels like. GET A NECK SIZE gauge from www.ballistictools.com. They are CHEAP and will tell what is going on.
I wouldn't do it.. No way... It's how I broke my first one and the instruction are pretty clear about that AND there is no need to. It sets really consistent neck tension with just a little force. Feels about like seating a primer only much shorter stroke... But you go ahead and work your system whichever way feels right to you.
![[27] Reconditioning and Repairing a Sticking Collet Sizing Die](/img/n.gif)
I used the Lee collet die on a 303 British and with a Lee three hole turret press. Using a Forster bench rest seating die I got consistent bullet run-out of less then 1thou. That old riffle would pattern 10 shots @100 yards in .27 centers!
Those cheap lee dies will give you darn near perfect ammo everytime. WAY better than even the most expensive dies you can buy. Couple that Lee collet neck sizer with a Redding body die and you will have found the answer to nearly zero run-out in your finished loads.
Great vid! LOTS of folks here in US wont buy Lee because they are low priced! but I beleive they are nuts!
Lee makes their tools in a State that allows them to pay a machinist a low wage. That low overhead is passed on to the customer. Redding on the other hand is made in a different State that may have a Union base of employed machinists, where they pay their employee's a higher wage. That too is passed on to the customer.
Well done video. Can't understand why more high accuracy shooters have not discovered the precision that the lee collet neck die produces. Someone else noted that if you use the Lee Collet with a Redding body sizing die you have an excellent case with almost zero run out when properly adjusted. I agree and have been doing so for some years now.
I realized this is quite an old video but I had to make comments on it. For what it is that Lee collet die is actually quite functional. I have had it iron out neck concentricity issues without having turn necks which is quite nice. But that is essentially the effect you are getting. It ironed out your necks. I shoot in the heavy 1000yd benchrest class here in Central Texas and I have used that die for competitive ammo. We were so resistant to doing any formal sizing on our brass, that we would have to beat our bolts closed with mallets to retain a good case dimension after using the Lee die several times. Now I use a full set of custom Wilson dies but I like that Lee die and I have never used the Hornady die so I can't speak for it. But I think I paid $16US for my Lee die. You can't even get a good pizza for that right now 😁. Cheers man!
13 years ago - totally forgot about that video! :)
I still use a Lee collet neck die, but generally just to push any neck thickness variation to the outside before neck turning. Brilliant for that.
For normal sizing, I use a full length die all the time these days. I like the consistency (on target) by bumping the shoulder 2 thou every time. Consistency is everything.
Thanks for the comment - good memories from that time :)
I selected 10 pieces of 223 brass each for a:
Lee Collet neck die
Forster FL die with neck honed out at factory
Redding FL "S" die
RCBS FL die
I shot many times each at 66kpsi and measured case growth and concentricity run out.
The Lee Collet Neck Die is the winner in concentricity by ~50%, but the number of firings between trimmings compared to a small amount of shoulder set back was a 2000% improvement with the Lee.
I learned to keep the brass dedicated to a particular .223 rifle.
I've read and seen others that remove the button/ball on other dies precisely because pulling the expander through the neck introduces runout, but they were also doing full length sizing.
Would have liked to to see the "before" runout. Then run the Hornady sized brass thru the Lee and see any improvement. A very good comparison and good video. 11 years later.👍
That’s y he shuffled em in hand for people that think this is bs!
Great video and presentation Beer thank you. I have had good success with Lee and I have RCBS,LYMAN and Pacific. It really bugs my butt that folks bad mouth Lee as they are affordable to a lot of folks that have a budget. Most never even tried Lee and are just heralding other folks. I have seen NEF rifles out shoot Weatherbys so on ,so on, ETC,ETC.
The Lee collect Neck Sizer and Factory Crimp dies are GREAT!...
" I don't like that I have to use the instructions in the Lee Die set to set up the Die according to the Directions of the manufacturer. "
And that is why people complain about Lee Precision Products.
Fantastic video, I have the same equipment and will replicate your test. For those who wonder why Lee always seems to do things differently, my response is often times there is a better way!
I like how your press dies are loaded, I get excellent results with my Lee collet neck sizing dies as well, I find them easy to use and they give great results. Thanks! for the great video.
@ammosmith Nice thing about the Lee is you can set the neck tension to where you want it as well.
My experience absolutely confirms this video. All bushing dies I tried create more eccentric necks than Lee collet die does.
When i started loading i was a bit dubious at Lee stuff because of price, but friends and shop staff all spoke highly of Lee stuff so i went with it. I get single digit ES and .5 MOA groups out of my 6.5 cm using Lee dies.
Es? Extreme spread?
I noticed when you used the Hornady die the table vibrated somewhat indicating you were using a considerable amount of extra effort to resize the case. On the other hand the Lee die resized very smoothly. I like it! I have just had a disaster with my Hornady resizing die. Even with lube applied, while resizing, I had to use extra effort in raising the case into the die. This time, the case jammed and I can't get the thing out! An expensive die which is of no use anymore! I'm off to buy a Lee!
Best collet video ive seen. Thank you and it happened why i bought mine
Just bought the Lee "C" single stage press to use with a collet bullet puller. After seeing the quality of this, their cheapest press ($37 at full price), I'm a lot more open to trying their dies. This video just reinforced that opinion.
I'm a retired machinist, so I don't generally "buy labels" unless that's all I have to go on.
I like the LEE collet dies for neck sizing best and use then for all my reloading except the ones they don't make.
Simple dies that are cost effective and do the job well as you have shown, no lube required and the least amount of stress to the brass gives the longest case life, the other brands neck sizing method actually under sizes the neck which is why they need a built in expander to bring it back to the correct size which can cause case stretching.
Makes me also wonder why LEE don't make more collet dies for more cartridges as they are simple and easy to make...
Great vid.
I like the comparison you did.
That Forster press seems really nice and solid.
Make sure you lube the inside of the neck, the expander ball will bend the neck slightly when it pulls out. Great vid!!! Cheers mate!
I love it! It amazes me how many folks speak so poorly of Lee dies (and their products in general). Those blew the Hornady dies away and I love Hornady dies. I have a LNL-AP by Hornady and a Breech Lock Challenger by Lee. The fit and finish on the cheapo Lee press is significantly better and it performs excellently
Great vid. Goes to show you that Lee makes top notch stuff at a very decent price!
Thanks mate! Great Video
Very informative video. Well done!
Very good and I have had similar experience with neck sizing. Oddly, I am finding it opposite with the full length resizing! The Lee dies are giving me a good deal of bullet runout where the Hornady dies are giving me near perfect ammo. Not sure if it is from seating or resizing or both yet. Perhaps it is something simple or something I am doing wrong, just need to test further (which is why I am here, hoping to get some insight). Good video.
Why would neck of the case runout matter if the neck runout of the chamber is unknown? Even if chamber neck runout is known, given cartridges are axially symmetric, it wouldn't matter. Given the variables involved in the flight of a bullet, a few microns here and there just makes money for the reloading Industry. Hats off to Richard Lee and his company for an honest low bullshit approach to reloading.
I guess the proof of the pudding is in the eating. In my rifles, rounds with a low runout shoot tighter groups. Good enough for me :)
If this kind of attention to detail in hand loading does not appeal to you, you do not have to do it. Many people enjoy hand loading and the results they get from accurate ammunition.
This is a good example that just because it's expensive that doesn't mean it's better.
I have two Lee Collet Neck Dies and initially the collet would get stuck after substantial use and stick inside of the upper part. As long as I kept using the same cases with similar neck wall thickness it still functioned.
Then I sanded the outside of the collet with that 1500 sandpaper (black) after I applied some water on the paper and removed all that excess grungy material on the surface and also inside of the upper part and now the collet doesn't stick anymore.
Why I have two dies is because I removed the primer pin from one of the dies so when the neck wasn't set properly and the bullet did not seat properly all I have to do is remove the bullet and powder and resize the case neck without removing the primer.
Can't beat a Lee collet and everyone who has one knows this ! Body die and the collet, perfect together. One problem though, you can't decrease neck tension with it, you can only increase it.
Great video, Thanks
Thanks for the vid, I am a huge fan of lee dies but I was watching this to see your press in action. I am thinking of getting a forster coaxial but was courious how well they work.
This shows all of the arrogant and snuddy reloading creame puffs that lee is well worth the money and more. All of the Readings and others just charge us to much. Thanks great video!!
This video was a blast from the past! The Lee stuff generally (but not always) works very well. There are better dies out there, but not at the lower end of the market.
Sir i use all of the die companies and they make good products, but each of these companies have things the other don't have, however some like Reading is always sky high and they dont work any better than lee . Crimping magnum revolver cartridges is tough in terms of stopping crimp jump, however the Lee collet style crimp die is the best and no came close. In 35 years of reloading lee seems to be as good and better in many cases but affordable. Lee has some items that need improvement like the the powder measure and expanding dies. As a engineer i look at this from that point of view. Thanks
Thank you for your vid. I really like Lee stuff. I use it to reload .308 for F-class. If i do my part I can place in the top 20. For 1/2 to 1/4 the cost of the other guys
I would like to see the test done again and this time try wiping the necks off before measuring for better comparison -- notice how much the RCBS Case Master needle moves with simple finger pressure differences.
Yes, I own a Forster Co-Ax press along with a RCBS RCII & Hornady LNL AP press - I use Competition Dies from Forster & Redding and I also own dies from Lee, Lyman, RCBS, Redding & Forster - NO Dillon Dies yet!!
I like the Lee Collet Dies and I also like the Lee Factory Crimp Dies.
Well done! Nice video, thanks, that is good information!
You can also polish the mandrel on the Lee to get more tension if you need too.
Good to know.
Thanks
Great vid and a fair trial - I love the Lee stuff too (except their scales) Pity they don't do a wider range of calibres - I'd like some for my 6BR.
great video mate.....ive got a .223 and use a lee collet die with no worries....steve.
I like the Lee collet dies, and get excellent accuracy from them.
I had no luck with hornady dies. I think Lee dies are great. Forster I think is a close competitor in performance or better but not by much. But Lee does it at half the price. Forster dies in my experience outlast Lee dies and have a much better warranty and customer service. Forster will customize dies for $15 dollars if I remember right.
@ROBERTLUCIAn Sorry, I meant when you don't use the collet die. I have the Lee dies but I full lenght size new cases and I make sure I lube the neck inside the case with a q tip and a bit of Imperial wax, see you have a can of that too.
How do you adjust the Lee Collet die in the Forster press? I'm thinking upgrading to Forster press and have a lot of Lee Collet dies.
@BeerHunterabc They were adjusted to the instructions specs. For some reason they took too much pressure to use. The one for my 7.5x55 swiss works just fine with hardly no pressure to use, but it doesn't size the necks down enough. They should be about .302-.303, not .306.
Mark - it was a test of the neck sizing dies, not bullet seating dies... but not a bad idea. May just try that :)
Some people in these comments mention getting extreme runout in neck-sized cases but little runout in full length resized cases. Well if you think about it, since the neck die does not touch the case body, it can't align the case body, and so runout in a neck-sized case could be a reflection of what the runout was going INTO the die. If your gun has a bad chamber, only a FL die can grab both neck and body at once and re-align them again. Another factor could be how well aligned the case body or case head was to the die as the case went into the neck size die. A bad shellholder or a case head not slid all the way into the shellholder could mean a slightly angled case body as the neck is formed into a non-angled configuration. Result: misalignment between body and neck. The small amounts of runout measured in this video, even from the "worse" die, are probably due to variations in brass hardness rather than from any crookedness of the die. Apparently the Lee concept handles those hardness variations better.
I think your decimal is placed wrong but I've had the same problem with the same calibre, 7mm mauser. My collet die would create incredible amounts of runnout .006-.010 and my full length lee resizing die will create consistent .002 or less. I also have a collet die for my 308 and it produces under .001. Wonder if there is something up with their 7mm mauser collets.
whats your reload recipe? Mine is 140 sierra game kings and 50 gr of H414 rem brass full length resize, win primers, 3.00 COL
His press is a Forster Co-Ax.
Can I suggest you measure your case body at being round and not egg shaped in its sections as it rubes on those balance points on that Hornady tool. But I can see your comparison shows the Lee Brand die is better at what you wanted to accomplished.
becarful too not to lube the necks to much because when you are ready to put powder, some powder will stick to the inside of the necks. Thanks for the vid!
I am useing Lee collect die for 7mm Mauser. I have a measurement of .0005 to .0009 run out on my Resized 50+ cases. I necked turned, fired them & again re-sized them with collect die , unfortunately same runout.
Where as I have used Lee FL die for Neck sizing only same cases run-out measured .0001 to .0002.
Please advise how to reduce the run-out using Collect die.
Thank you.
Regards
The Lee collet die forces the case neck against a mandrel that is held stationary in the center axis of the brass case. The mandrel does not move as the case is forced up into the die because it is held at the flash hole AND the die as your reloading press lever is moved. Other dies have the " neck expander ball" hanging in free air as the case is withdrawn from the die. Runout can be induced OR untouched by other size dies. If you also anneal your brass, any runout will be drastically reduced.
Nice video, but it looks like the case necks are dirty. I wet tumble my brass with stainless steel before neck sizing. I don't want dirt getting in the dies, and I suspect dirt might be affecting your measurements. Thoughts?
The necks were turned which leaves scratches which I think you are seeing. Before the video the cases were ultrasonically cleaned which also often leaves stains on the cases. They certainly were not dirty.
***** Okay great info, thanks!
Thanks fo rthe video! You adjusted the Lee die not as the instructions say (deep enough to prevent the press from toggling over) - is there a reason for that? I guess your method is more difficult to adjust, but results in a more even neck tension?
Lee says to not cam over because you can damage the collet. I agree and if I cam over I just to it ever so slightly to avoid damaging the collet. To straiten new cases deformed by tumble polishing sometimes I will leave them in the co ax for extended periods of time to true the necks and so I will cam over lightly and let the case sit in the die... same thing with the full length die. I just cam over and let the case sit in the die.
Can't argue with Kevin's results but yeah, LEE instructs to screw the die down two turns more so that the press never toggles or hits its stops. You can literally feel the collet sizing the neck. Very much pressure above that is not useful and can be harmful.
Love those collet dies!
Could it be the expander ball dragging that caused the runout?
Almost certainl, yes.
What's that press? It's a monster! (The push-in-pull-out die thing is very, very clever.)
It's a Forster Co-Axe, and yeah, it's an awesome press.
great - I got the Lee dies ;-)
I want that press, what is it..forester?
Idont know why so many people rag on Lee dies...its like people are die snobs just like scope snobs. I guess they feel since lee is less expensive they are no good, but Ive used RCBS, Hornady, Lyman and Lee dies and the Lee are my favorite. I haven't tried the forester neck bushing die that will bump the should as well if you want, but the Lee collet dies are THE best neck sizer dies out there
You're right about the press, which is a Forster Co-Ax.
It costs about twice as much as say an RCBS Rochchucker or Hornady Lock-N-Load, but it's a fantastic press that I would have gotten if I hadn't originally bought a Rockchucker.
The Rochchucker is still a damn good press that even now serves me well, over twenty years later.
There is a bit to it than that. Lee has some great products, some crap, and everything in between. Sometimes they have great ideas but the execution is bad. A lot of people hate them is because Richard is such a great propagandist for himself.
Sound Scottish...good video.
What press is that?
It's a Forster Co-Ax, widely acclaimed as one of the very best single stage presses out there.
Wow
Using the wrong neck lube dude
DO not push hard with the lee collet die. . I full length size 1st with a Redding small base full body die for 223. This leaves the case mouth ID at a little larger than 0.224". Then when I size the neck I can definitely feel the neck being re-sized. If you push too hard you can strip the threads on the aluminum plug on the top. I know from personal experience. If you want to be supper accurate spin the round about 90 degrees and give it a 2nd cycle into the die. I get just about a perfect 0.002" interference fit with 224 bullets in 223 brass.
+groovymoon Hi, you may want to check how you have the die set up if you have stripped the threads. The correct setup is with the die set to just cam over. In this way it is impossible to strip the threads and you get a repeatable result. If it is not set to cam over, you will be manually exerting slightly different pressure every time.
Nah... I just pushed WAY to hard on the handle and popped it. With the Redding Full Body Die the case mouth is left with an ID of just around 0.225. I have learned the feel of when the Lee Collet die squishes the neck ID down. It kind of feels like setting a primer but shorter. It is very consistent according to my neck tension die. In any case all is good now.
Cam over is when the force on your lever reaches a peak and you hear a pop as the press "cams over".... DO NOT do this with the collet neck sizing die. You will break it. The die does not take a lot of force. You can feel it squish the neck back to size... kindof like what a primer seating feels like. GET A NECK SIZE gauge from www.ballistictools.com. They are CHEAP and will tell what is going on.
+groovymoon You can cam over - all you need to do is set the die higher in the press.
I wouldn't do it.. No way... It's how I broke my first one and the instruction are pretty clear about that AND there is no need to. It sets really consistent neck tension with just a little force. Feels about like seating a primer only much shorter stroke... But you go ahead and work your system whichever way feels right to you.
Hornady of today is not in the same category as hornady of 10-20 yrs ago! Period
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I'm not a fan of the lee collet die. They're crap. The tops on both of them broke on me.
What press is that?
+chris O'Hara Forster Co-Ax
Thanks.