How a no-fly zone would change the war in Ukraine
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- Опубліковано 10 бер 2022
- The battle for Ukraine’s skies has enormous stakes.
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The Russian air force is huge. Ukraine’s is not. And yet, more than two weeks into Russia’s war in Ukraine, one of the biggest surprises was that Russia had not yet achieved control of the skies over Ukraine, or what’s called “air superiority.” When a military has air superiority, its planes can attack the enemy much more easily and its ground troops can advance much faster. If, or when, Russia achieves air superiority, it will have gained a major advantage in the war.
To prevent or slow down that outcome, Ukraine’s allies in the west are working to deny Russia air superiority, mostly by sending weapons that can be used to shoot down planes. But Ukraine itself has asked for a more drastic step: the declaration of a no-fly zone over Ukraine, which would prohibit Russian planes from the airspace. But a no-fly zone is complicated, because to be effective, it has to be enforced. And the consequences of how that enforcement would play out could bring the war to places that were once unthinkable.
Further Reading:
Is the Russian Air Force Actually Incapable of Complex Air Operations? Justin Bronk, rusi.org/explore-our-research...
What happened to Russia’s Air Force? Reuters, www.reuters.com/world/europe/...
The curious case of Russia’s missing air force. Economist, www.economist.com/interactive...
No-fly zone. Crisis Group, www.crisisgroup.org/europe-ce...
EXCLUSIVE Americans broadly support Ukraine no-fly zone, Russia oil ban -poll, Reuters www.reuters.com/world/us/excl...
War on the Rocks Podcast. warontherocks.com/2022/03/11-...
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Still waiting on a video re: the Azov Battalion.
We might as well do a no-soldier zone where soldiers aren't permitted, and is enforced with NATO soldiers shooting Russian soldiers. The logic is identical.
Okay dokey will do lol.
That awkward moment when you realize that America arming Taiwan (not UN recognized state) against China (a UN member) is analagous to Russia arming Donetsk/Luhansk (not UN recognized) against Ukraine (UN recognized).
Sometimes George Orwell's chilling predictions about Doublespeak ring truer and closer to home than one would have realized.
When are we going to report on this Vox?
THE INVASION STARTED 8 YEARS AGO not this year CRIMEA IS UKRAINI
I'm very happy it's explained why a no-fly zone isn't possible. Thought the video was going to champion FOR a no-fly zone. The west is very much trying to help Ukraine while trying to avoid a catastrophic extinction-level global nuclear war.
Bot
@PrimeVids did the Americans not help the Mujahideen by supply and Intel against the Soviets? Doing nearly everything bar nuclear war isn't the same as doing nothing.
@Drew Peacock No, they are doing the smart thing by not implementing a no fly zone, they don’t wanna start WW3
Yes but liberals don't care about rationality they only care about hating on conservatives
@Drew Peacock They would be directly getting involved, Putin said that anyone that gets involved would suffer the consequences.
Majority of Americans support a no fly zone? I am willing to bet all my life savings and belongings that the majority of Americans don’t even know what a no fly zone is, let alone what it entails.
go easy on them, they just learned a name of a new country
Perfect example of the stupidity of democratic systems and why Ukraine will become a failed state.
@@Samirustem Lol
@@calvinhoward3808 maybe, but russia and belarus right now are perfect examples of the stupidity of authoritative systems and why they will become failed states…
@@ivanm3342 Why? Because the West wants to destroy Russia's economy over a war they have no business in?
For anybody who thinks Russia would obey a No Fly Zone without being forced, remember, the Russia/Ukrainian border was a No Invasion Zone on February 24th...
@paul best then u get nuked?lol
@paul best The table with the nuke button? Get real, the table wis wide open for 20 years, Nato didn't care.
@paul best most Americans couldn't place Ukraine on a map, and have never owned a passport. Do you really expect them to understand the consequences of a no fly zone?
Remember, Russia's airforce is about x100 stronger than Serbia's was, and even Serbia managed to shoot down stealth aircraft.
No one thinks that. It’s Ukraine’s “legal” way of dragging the US into the conflict. We definitely don’t need to be in that.
How else are you going to make them pay for war crimes they stacked up since 1932?
A lot of people seem to be confusing a No-Fly Zone with a safety measure to have civilians flights routed away from the battlefield to avoid catastrophes like MH17 back in 2014.
The No-Fly Zone they're suggesting is really a full scale NATO military deployment in the Ukraine war.
Those poll numbers they quoted would look a lot different if the question was posed honestly.
"The No-Fly Zone they're suggesting is really a full scale NATO military deployment in the Ukraine war."
Actually, no. A full scale NATO military deployment would also include ground and naval forces. Furthermore, a no-fly zone merely means prohibiting (hostile) aircraft to fly in that zone; that also doesn't (necessarily) include airstrikes against ground troops for example.
So it's still far off from a "full scale" military deployment, but it would involve NATO in the war against Russia; and the latter would then have the perfect excuse to (escalate the conflict and) go for a full scale military deployment into NATO member states.
@@ewoudalliet1734 Keep in mind Ukraine is no tiny nation which you can fully patrol from a far, it's the 2nd largest nation in Europe. It's impossible to enforce a No Fly Zone over a battlefield (most of which is in east Ukraine) without having military deployment in the country for secure bases from which the intervening planes would launch. No Fly Zone in Ukraine would guarantee WW3
You both make a good point and agree on at least 1 thing: No-fly zone means WW3.
I like to think of it sorta like JFK’s naval blockade during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
The Russians perceived that move as an act of war, and it ended up escalating the crisis alot.
@@horseradish4046 Actually it is possible without the deployment of troops to secure bases. Remember Libya? There's a thing called aerial refueling and there are also aircraft carriers (although do note that getting those in the Black Sea may be somewhat problematic), but the range of these aircraft is also far greater than you seem to assume.
"No Fly Zone in Ukraine would guarantee WW3"
I don't know whether it'd guarantee a WW3, but the odds would indeed be extremely high of that happening. Although that's not what I'm arguing about here; I'm arguing about the military capacity needed from NATO to enforce a No-Fly zone.
One small remark; Ukraine here shouldn't be described as a nation (which is the people, their culture, language etc. - although the borders more or less overlap with the state; when you say it's the second biggest nation you could misinterpret it as it has the second biggest population - and that may also include inhabitants outside Ukraine; ad in that sense it's not the second biggest of Europe), but as a state (the Ukrainian government and the territory they control).
@@horseradish4046 Actually it is possible without the deployment of troops to secure bases. Remember Libya? There's a thing called aerial refueling and there are also aircraft carriers (although do note that getting those in the Black Sea may be somewhat problematic), but the range of these aircraft is also far greater than you seem to assume.
"No Fly Zone in Ukraine would guarantee WW3"
I don't know whether it'd guarantee a WW3, but the odds would indeed be extremely high of that happening. Although that's not what I'm arguing about here; I'm arguing about the military capacity needed from NATO to enforce a No-Fly zone.
One small remark; Ukraine here shouldn't be described as a nation (which is the people, their culture, language etc. - although the borders more or less overlap with the state; when you say it's the second biggest nation you could misinterpret it as it has the second biggest population - and that may also include inhabitants outside Ukraine; ad in that sense it's not the second biggest of Europe), but as a state (the Ukrainian government and the territory they control).
When the poll asked Americans about a no-fly zone, I bet the majority polled didn't know what that entailed. "No-fly zone" sounds more like a verbal slap on the wrist than a commitment to send American troops to enforce it.
Agreed. Would have gotten a very different answer if they asked "Should the US and other NATO allies begin shooting down Russian planes?"
That's because everything is a lie. No fly zone = only we can fly zone.
You’re 10,000% right. Most people don’t understand that it would lead to a world war, AND, Russia’s S-400 air defences would have to be a first priority. So NATO would have to open the floodgates and destroy Russia SAM’s within the first day. Otherwise, with a range of 400Km, good luck sitting on station over Kyiv. I truly believe a no-fly zone would kick off a world war. Putin himself has said that’s how he will see it. I don’t think that’s a risk worth taking, particularly at this stage of the “game”.
US forbid Nato to send out plane into ukraine territory. And Nato already claim itself that they will not accept the no fly zone that requested by ukraine. There is video about this. I doubt why Vox didnt put this on their video
Blame Hillary for turning it into a buzzword
Actually a no-fly zone wouldn´t only entail shooting down russian planes, but also destroying russian anti-aircraft capibility. Which probably means attacking targets in Belarus and/or Russia itself. That is the part that makes the no-fly zone especially dangerous for triggering a nuclear war.
Only those in Ukraine.
Censorship changed this comment
@@jascrandom9855 It is quite difficult to establish a no-fly zone when your planes get shot down by AA... And I doubt that the Russian would just sit there and don´t use AAs from their soil.
@@McLenwe Which is why the Pentagon wants to send Soviet-designed Air defense systems from Eastern Europe NATO members that the Ukranians can use.
Destroying Russian "anti aircraft capability" would involve NATO shooting down planes, surface to air missiles and Russian troops - directly involving them in the war...
Thank you Vox for HONESTLY explaining what a no fly zone would entail (i.e. WWIII). Far too many media outlets are irresponsibly floating that idea without actually educating people on how dangerous it is.
ty for posting these videos on wars, makes it 10000x more simple and easier to undertand
"My best guess"......I love this guy. He doesn't pretend to know the Russian strategy like virtually everyone else.
russian strategy is a paradox..
To be fair the Guardian was spot on with their predictions two weeks before the invasion.
Imagine the town drunk is intelligent, belligerent and resentful.
At least they don't have any strategy to achieve air superiority.
Change “virtually” to “literally”
The same poll that found that 70% support a no fly zone also found that the vast majority of Americans are against sending troops to fight.
It's not that Americans want the no fly zone, it's that they don't know what it means.
Exactly, l don’t think another superpower is gonna emerge again after a WW3 because a nuclear war will do more damage to Americans than anybody else
This is definitely a huge factor. It's just ignorance
40% of Americans believe in creationism. It's best not to ask the American public for their opinion on serious issues.
I myself had no idea what the importance of no-fly zones were until this video.
Seasoned reporters know all the terminology but forget that regular folks just don't.
the 74% americans who voted to enforce no-fly zone are the same people who thought the Ghost of Kyiv guy was real😂
do some research on the Ghost of Kyiv...
Finally someone explaining this. Very well done. Informative
The poll you cited, about 70% of American support a no fly zone didn't explain what one would entail. A similar poll in the UK where it was actually explained found 70% opposed a no fly zone
Thank you 100 percent of these goofy didn't know what a no flying zones are I bet they were cheering for a no fly zone till the had to be explained what it was
I think that has a lot to do with the UK being in Europe so close to the conflict. People take the risk more seriously and therefore more cautious
Typical in American politics. Something sounds good on paper, but nobody understands the actual cost.
they use polls to confuse people only to use the poll to justify political decisions.
Zelenskiy does not ask NATO to shut russian airplanes. He asks Biden to sell old soviet airplanes NATO has for ukrainian pilots to fly, and also for air defense systems that ukrainians can operate. Both rejected by Biden admin.
That's the current meaning of no-fly zone in ukraine
Clearly anyone that wants a no-fly zone doesn't know the repercussions that come with it.
Yet I often doubt that Russia would attack Nato over the no fly zone.
Too many sickos want ww3 and don't understand the cascading events that would happen when they would have to enforce the nofly zone.
@@celestialorb1680 that's why your not a general.
@Shamar Levinloyd that's always been our leaders for you
@@celestialorb1680 Yeah, I'm sure you're much more well informed than the entire intelligence community comprising NATO
Nofly Zone is basically euphemism for NATO joining the war. That also means that Nato will have to shut down nukes over Europe and uboats outside of New York and Los Angeles. If they had the power to proclaim Nofly zone they would already do that. They would also proclaim NoWar zone if they could.
Putin and Nato just wants a buffer from each other and they are still deciding on if totally leveling Ukraine is worth it or not. That's what NoFlyzone means.
As ridiculous, and as sad as that sounds, that is true.
A no fly zone means a nuclear war.
Calling for a no-fly zone is equal to asking for the world war 3. Thank you Vox for making this a plain explanation for everyone.
Nato already claim itself that they will not accept the no fly zone that requested by ukraine. There is video about this. I doubt why Vox didnt put this on their video
@@akgamingzz Only way this could happen, if they blame Putin for Bio attacks.
@@Inf7cted dont you know that US had bio lab in ukraine? This is what russia want to take now. Also US own many bio labs around the world
@@akgamingzz I hope it was a sarcasm
There is zero difference between someone who wants an NFZ and someone who wants a war with the Russian Federation.
Guess most people don't realize, so called "NO Fly Zone" simply means an actual Air Superiority, a total control of airspace, and you need to fight for it.
Nato already claim itself that they will not accept the no fly zone that requested by ukraine. There is video about this. I doubt why Vox didnt put this on their video
@@akgamingzz Nato is not willing to go into WW3 over the Ukraine which is a sensible position to be in.
I think the generals and the President understand this concept. Thank the Gods.
Air dominance. Russia already has that. Ukraine has no air capability above 5000' because of Russian ADS.
Guess you speak for yourself. Crickets....
Long story short: Establishing a No-Fly Zone only works when you impose it on a nation that doesn't have much of an air force, say like an Iraq or Serbia. If you attempt to impose it on a nation that does have a significantly powerful air force (like Russia) it's not a "No-Fly Zone" -- it's an Air War. So if you're not prepared to start an Air War, the idea of attempting to establish a No-Fly Zone in a situation like this is just not realistic.
Putin already says we've declared (Economic) War on Russia...he already considers this a War of The World vs Russia. It's going to be hard to make that much worse.
If Ukrainian people had guns like Americans, Russians would have been dead in the first hour of war.
@Juicyyz what 💀
@Juicyyz Do you know Afghanistan and Iraq? Maybe you are familiar with Vietnam and that makes you think how USA got their independence from UK hmmmm
@@LezChap economic war and war that 2 things different btw even putin not want a full-scale war with the european and nato
Would the people of Vox care to explain how much Iraqi civilians died when US and Britain has complete air superiority during the 2003 invasion of Iraq.
lol funny you, the USA can never commit war crime. USA is always justified in any foreign military action and the right is only exclusive to it. The media would never report the tens of thousands of civilians who died in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya.
Hm.. I don’t know, maybe because it’s a whataboutism that isn’t relevant to the topic at hand?
👏👏👏👏👏👏
74% of Americans supporting a no-fly zone is classic example of America's Main Character Syndrome.
What's that?
Your comment makes as much sense as Putin's invasion.
It’s the “America saves the day every day”
They're also not well versed in politics. All their knowledge comes from parroting headlines from their favorite news network. Its very straightforward, superficial, childish logic.
Being that Americans are hyper propagadised and that it's a war like culture based on the misconception that we are the good guys.
I guarantee you that a huge percentage of the Americans polled didn’t know what a no fly zone meant, nor did they know the implications behind declaring one.
Zelenskiy does not ask NATO to shut russian airplanes. He asks Biden to sell old soviet airplanes NATO has for ukrainian pilots to fly, and also for air defense systems that ukrainians can operate. Both rejected by Biden admin.
That's the current meaning of no-fly zone
I guess they don't know where Ukraine is .
Shame on the media for not explaining what that would entail
As an American, we don't want Russia to achieve air superiority.
@@MAXlMUS Should've said lend-lease then
"do all that we can to help Ukraine while also doing everything we can to avoid direct conflict with Russia."
No, I don't think it is not possible to do both at the same time.
Thank you for explanation..
just as I have thought...
There's no such thing as a no-fly zone in this situation. Typically this is something you do verses a small, poor country with limited air and AA assets to begin with. In this case however, it would be across the border of Russia, which has a sizable airforce and long range AA systems. Not to mention they have long range missiles, and intercontinental NUCLEAR missiles.
Indeed. This is Russia not Libya lol
Why is Nuclear always mentioned? I don’t get it.
Isn’t it supposed to be used when gov is about to be totally annihilated?
It’s the equivalent of placing your enemy head next to yours and shooting them in the head with a rifle bullet hoping it won’t go thru which it obviously will.
By this Russia already won
And NATO just said "no" to their request.
@@abdiganiaden the thing is even if there is only 0.1 percentage chance of somebody using nuclear weapons, we still don’t want to risk it
It would mean direct conflict between NATO and Russia.
In other words, it would mean the beginning of WWIII.
Yeah, it'd change the war by turning it nuclear.
Exactly it’d end bad for everyone
like if just leave france being invaded and England got destroyed in ww2 then ww2 is not gonna happed but just Germany domaination over everyone.
@@ELVEVERX see you guys in the next universe. We are all doomed.
Maybe that war needs to be fought.. Russia needs to be put back in it's shell.
Thank for sharing
5:40: "And I weep when I see some of these images..."
Him: 😐👨🏻💼
A no fly-zone goes even beyond what has been showed in this video. It also means that you have to bomb the surface to air capabilities of Russia in order to allow your own fighter jets to fly safely. However, most of these capabilities are positioned in Russia and Belarus. So a no-fly zone means a massive bombing campaign beyond the borders of Ukraine in order to make it effectively work
Are you a Kremlin bot? I've already seen three comments that are exactly the same as your
No bro, believe me I want to help the Ukraine. But I am afraid a no fly zone unfortunately will not do it
@@ThomasBoudewijnVos Dude, what help can you even give? I'm sure Putin will be afraid to go to war against Nato, Europe or even America alone. He saw that one single Ukraine is destroying the attack army and the people have become disgruntled, the economy is ruined. He is afraid of adopting a non-fly zone that is why he does not send all the planes into battle. +I'm sure Russian nukes won't even get off the ground, and those responsible for launching missiles will simply refuse to start a nuclear war (as they have done 3 times before)
@@ThomasBoudewijnVos it’s Ukraine, not the Ukraine!
@@Gold_Not_God LOL look at this bot copy pasting the same comment to everyone
I live in Kyiv, and I was watching this video to the sounds of a working Ukrainian air defense system. My small personal no-fly zone.
Once I heard a russian 3M-54 Kalibr cruise missile just flying over top of my house. And I can guarantee you that you don't want to know how it sounds like.
So sorry🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽 praying for you
I heard it sounds like brown noise.
praying for you, your family & your country
I cannot imagine what it must be like for you. I'm very interested to know what you thought of the video. Do you think NATO should impose any kind of no-fly zone? Does the prospect of escalation concern you given how bad it is already for Ukraine? All the strongest courage to you and Ukraine.
💔
Thank you very much for the video
This aged well
That poll doesn't mean anything, the pollsters themselves even concluded, "It was not clear if respondents who supported a no-fly zone were fully aware of the risk of conflict, and majorities opposed the idea of sending American troops to Ukraine or conducting air strikes to support the Ukrainian army."
THEN WHAT? YOU WANT TO DO NOTHING? YOU WANT TO SEE THOSE KIDS AND MOTHERS BEING BOMBED BY RUSSIANS?
@@mhazg6621 Your brain is so small it's laughable.
@@mhazg6621 You want to see ten thousand civilian casualties climb to one hundred million? The best case scenarios for war with Russia would mean many many more civilians dead.
@@mhazg6621 Do you want a NATO-Russia conflict?
@@mhazg6621 Can't bare to see white people being the victim of war? Where is the call for WWIII when non-white suffered equally or worst
How are you able to dictate how the airspace should be in a warzone of a war you're not a part of? Like, how would NATO be able to even justify a no-fly zone and claim to be not part of the war?
Putin is saying it’s not a war. It can’t be a war and not be a war at the same time.
They can’t that’s the whole point of this video. A no fly zone would mostly likely involve nato directly.
Han Zhang that's the entire purpose of the video. If you declare a no fly zone you have to enforce it, which means shooting down a Russian plane and being a direct participant in the conflict.
@@nefariouspurplebadger But Putin also said anyone that interferes with his "not-a-war" would be view as at war with Russia. So...you really want NATO / EU to get involved militarily?
@@riplajan right, but what I'm wondering is why people are even talking about this like it's an option.
"HEY BUDDY DON'T FLY OVER HERE OR ELSE" yea that'll stop em
3:17
putin: huh...
putin: that's a great idea!
This is like watching a kid get bullied at school but doing nothing about it.
It’s as simple as that
intervening is like helping a guy in a bar in a fist fight which causes more to intervene on both sides causing a fist fight throughout the entire bar and eventually a massacre
The fact this idea has gained any traction really calls the public's critical thinking faculties into question
It's not their critical thinking that is lacking; it's their understanding of the concept of a No-Fly Zone. They don't actually know what it is or what it would involve. Ordinary people simply do not spend their free time studying military doctrine. They wouldn't know if a given proposed military action is a good idea or not. They have no awareness of wartime logistics, international law, military capabilities of various countries, or the most likely sequence of consequences for any given attack strategy. The only way a pollster could get 70% of respondents to agree that a No-Fly Zone was a good idea is if they asked a leading question such as "Russia is invading Ukraine. Wouldn't it be a good thing if the US implemented a No-Fly Zone and stopped Russia's air force from attacking Ukraine?" An uninformed person would answer in the affirmative.
@@selohcin have people vote for something they don't know... no wonder "they" want more people to vote
Zelenskiy does not ask NATO to shut russian airplanes. He asks Biden to sell old soviet airplanes NATO has for ukrainian pilots to fly, and also for air defense systems that ukrainians can operate. Both rejected by Biden admin.
That's the current meaning of no-fly zone per ukrainian request
Before that the public must have a critical thinking skill. I will submit to you that allegations against the US public possessing such skills will not stand in court. US public opinion: NOT GUILTY!
@@selohcin You don't even have to research what a no-fly zone is to understand it. For instance, I've never never heard of the term before until now but I instantly knew what it meant literally using the most basic logic. So yes, THEY DO lack critical thinking skills if they cannot decipher such a simple concept.
what’s funny is that people think their are rules in war
Sharing this info is very important for Ukrainian people
Thank you for that
When I first heard “no fly zone” I thought it meant all nations not involved in the war wouldn’t fly any planes through, wether civilian or military. I didn’t think it meant enforcing that russians and Ukrainians can’t fight it in the air
There is one more factor, Russian Air defence which are deployed in Russia and Belarus and have range covering large part of ukraine. So if NATO goes in ukraine they will first have to bomb Russian Air defences in Russia otherwise their aircrafts will keep on getting shot and obviously it will be very escalating
Yeah it sounds so passive but it’s definitely not. News stations and reporters should just go out and say what they actually want instead of using dog whistles
Ukraine definitely cannot put a fight up with Russia in terms of air superiority
fighter jets and no fly zone are 2 different things. For example we need to research the Iraq war. They sent a combination of hundreds of aircraft and almost a thousand drones in which the drones go in first to pull up anti aircraft fire and then the bombers escorted with fighters attack anti air targets that fired at the drones up front. It also takes an opening massive attack that takes out all enemy airfields that they can launch planes from (in this case it would mean targets within Russia homeland.) You cascade sorties and escorted bomber runs with drones up front and fighters below radar and above altitude to find an hit targets. This can only last for a matter of hours to a couple of days. ALL of your targets must be hit within those 1-2 days and then AWACs rotates for 24hour radar coverage with small number of "response" flights to maintain. If this is not achieved there IS NO FLY ZONE. If we can not hit airfields in Russia and they can not hit airfields in Poland then both sides will be able to attack and bomb the other without ever stopping.
@@Morristown337 hitting targets in Russian homeland you say guess we both know no one is bold enough to do that
As much as I want to help Ukraine, I also don’t want a mass extinction
Agreed. That's why cyber attacks are more beneficial.
@@DragonKingGaav Ah yes, what a great solution
@@DragonKingGaav That could also lead to direct conflict with Russia my guy.
@Лев Купибіда I genuinely understand the need of Ukrainian people at this hour, but a world War between 2 nuclear superpowers could spell the end of the human race entirely. And this is not an exaggeration. We are trying everything in our capacity to help Ukrainians and hurt Russian leaders, so that this tragedy does not repeat. But know this, Ukraine has absolutely surprised the world with it's bravery and strength, and this war will not be for nothing. The free world has learned the true price of freedom and is united now more than ever.
@@hamzamahmood9565 That absolutely is an exaggeration.
Where and how was that poll conducted? Just curious.
Short and informative, good job.
Anyone wanting a no fly zone astonishes me. They think they are trying to help, but in reality everything would get so much worse. Thank God no one in power has even considered it.
i mean i think they just hear "no-fly zone" and think "oh that's between not sending troops and sending troops"
you're making it too one-sided. there is a debate whether a no-fly zone is a good idea, including within NATO
Same as not imposing a no fly zone. You get this war going longer and not only there is an immigration crisis and food shortages but also you’ll face Russia from EU and NATO boarders
@@MashaKanarchuk "You get this war going longer" htf is a war between the US and Russia gonna be shorter?
and as bad as the situation in ukraine is the west is much more capable of giving aid and helping refugees, a war with Russia would literally have all of eastern Europe turn into ukraine and that is the best case scenario if nukes don't come out.
WWIII has already begun, fruit.
I completely disagree with a no fly zone. WWIII is going to come out of it and Russia has already threatened to use nuclear weapons, I really hope Ukraine gets through it. But it’s just too much of a risk to establish a no-fly zone.
It would take more than putin to use a nuke..takes putin + 3 generals to launch one, takes one person to stop the nuke
Ww3 will happen eventually from this, it might be 10 years away, but putin is 69yrs old and has a russian empire ambition. We have 20yrs topps
let's do it! i'm tired of this world!
I agree with you. I’m sad for Ukraine but it’s not worth the risk
We still get WW3 if Ukraine lose. Putin wont just stop at Ukraine.
Wow excellent explanation
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Something that hasn't been mentioned but is of interest is that to enforce a no fly zone you also need to destroy long range anti air missile systems in Belarus and Russia ie. Direct attacks on their soil. There is no half measures when it comes to no fly zones except maybe only commiting SAM systems on the polish border but this wouldnt be as effective or accepted by neither side
But also, in regard to Vox's mention that Putin made threats regarding no fly zone participants, he also made threats regarding anyone who sends Ukraine weapons, so I don't think his words matter much.
@@hejalll if it's doesn't matter, NATO would have happily help Ukraine by imposing the NFZ, which they didn't.
Surely they know well how this will escalate the situation further, don't you think.
Either it's an empty threat or not, a Nuclear Holocaust is simply a factor that shouldn't be taken lightly as well.
It's easy to say that when one simply don't have any idea what will happen if NATO choose to impose that. Our world has been at the very close call with those situation before, and risking that kind of things over Ukraine outweighs the decision to impose the NFZ.
Remember the cuban missile crisis? At that point we are very close to the Nuclear Warfare.
@@azimuthaz yeah i don't think we should enforce the NFZ either. Just wanted to point out that some of Putins threats are hollow.
Though, I do think we could enforce NFZ if we got china and India on board, because then they're truly isolated, I mean what are they gonna do, bomb the entire world?
Although that's not gonna happen ofc, China wouldn't join us in that.
@@hejalll china and India aren't even close to Ukraine, so I don't see the relevance. And if it comes to a nuclear conflict, it doesn't matter what side China is on or if they are neutral, the fallout will be global.
Nato already claim itself that they will not accept the no fly zone that requested by ukraine. There is video about this. I doubt why Vox didnt put this on their video
Ukraine is also now offering $1M USD to any Russian pilot who defects and gives his plane to Ukraine. That's how important this is.
If I were a Russian pilot and I took the offer I’d be sleeping with one eye open on a lookout for a laser pointer to my head for the rest of my life
@@509734 Unless there's regime change in Russia.
Bill Gates and Elon could end this war if that's true.
@@elizabethhenning778 how ?
The good news is if a Russian pilot took up this offer, polonium poisoning is usually quite fast, so prolonged suffering is unlikely!
Most Americans have no idea that “no-fly zone” means “air war”
Unfortunately, most Americans have no idea period.
@@perryberman2824 American people understand world events at the same rate as any other nationality, but American government is based on land, not the people themselves
@@ChrisNoonetheFirst Most Americans have no clue about American affairs let alone foreign affairs. That's why the country is in the shape it is.
@@ChrisNoonetheFirst yeah, those who know what it means to conquer land tend to end up governing those who do not
@@perryberman2824 True, the only thing that keeps the Republicans around is the vast power they get from the Senate. If the media ever explained how much power that actually is most Americans would throw up
It’s straight rich people playing chess with our lives
A no fly zone would be the dumbest thing ever. A no fly zone is instant ww3.
It already began
@@Alexander.Portnoy I don't see bomb flying down here in Berlin
@@Alexander.Portnoy no it hasn’t 🙄
@@Alexander.Portnoy You guys are giving yourselves too much credit.
@@Alexander.Portnoy no
I always wondered why no fly zone would escalate things. Now I know why. Thank you
Zelenskiy does not ask NATO to shut russian airplanes. He asks Biden to sell old soviet airplanes NATO has for ukrainian pilots to fly, and also for air defense systems that ukrainians can operate. Both rejected by Biden admin.
That's the current meaning of no-fly zone. Simple
@@MAXlMUS that is disingenuous. Zelenesky is requesting planes for Ukrainian pilots, as a response to the clear red line NATO has established regarding an actual no fly zone. They want a no fly zone... But since they won't get one they want fighter jets to defend themselves. This has been resisted so far because while on paper it is no different to providing guns and ammunition to Ukraine, it has been treated differently in past conflicts involving NATO member states. For example the French agreeing to supply jets to Saddam Hussein's Iraq in 1983 led to Iranian (alleged) killing of approximately 30 French soldiers in an alleged State sponsored terrorist attack. It has been a red line for Nations in the past.
@@MAXlMUS Well, the planes need to start from some airbase to get into Ukraine. And if you allow ukraine soldiers to start from your airport you are also actively involved in the conflict, just like Belarus that allows russian soldiers to enter Ukraine via their soil.
That's the main problem with NATO supplying Fighter Jets.
Besides that it's likely that the few planes will be quickly shot down by russian air defense.
Thing is, if they don't utilise the full amount of planes right now, they might not be able to do so in the future, as more and more repair parts are not delivered
"We seem to be very near the bleak choice between War and Shame. My feeling is that we shall choose Shame, and then have War thrown in a little later on even more adverse terms than at present." Sir Winston Churchill
I do not believe most of those 73% of Americans calling for a no fly zone actually know what it entails and are just agreeing with it because it sounds right. Which is pretty dang dangerous.
Yup, the average person thinks that a "No Fly Zone" is some sort of magical force field, or they have seen the No Fly Zones over Iraq and Bosnia work against non-nuclear armed belligerents.
It shows how ignorant people are of military tactics and logistics
what could be more dangerous then war?
hello chicken
@@mr.priman Nuclear war which is what we're all trying to prevent here. If there wasn't a threat of nuclear war non of this would happen in the first place.
There's no way that 74% of Americans are that smooth brain to think that imposing a no-fly zone is a good idea. I question the legitimacy of whatever poll they referenced.
I personally believe its real. I was all for it until I realized the measures to enforce it.
I think the issue is calling it a no-fly zone... and that most Americans don't really know what that means. It sounds like we are just saying, "Hey guys... you totally can't fly here... so stop it, k?" As one former ambassador to Russia said today, it's a declaration of war... to enforce the NFZ, you have to shoot down Russian planes. And that escalates to nukes.
The issue is that most westerners don't understand geopolitics but still want to help Ukraine due to Ukraine litteraly becoming a sort of "trend" in the last two weeks. People that have never even heard of the country before are now protecting it in debates and supporting it.
74% of the group they polled* We don't know how many people they polled. It could be 1000 or 100000 people. Ofc, There's no way you can poll all 300 million Americans.
no-fly zones have been successful for the US in many wars in the middle east so they are likely though of positively by Americans without them completely understanding what exactly they entail.
UGH I hate flies. I wish my house was a no fly zone.
I WISH news channels would explain what they're talking about the way Vox does in videos like this. I've been hearing "no fly zone" for weeks but never heard anyone explain how powerful air superiority is and just how uncontrollable a no fly zone could be (to clarify I'm not for or against one)
The other major issue is that to enforce a No Fly Zone, you also have the suppress air defences. This means making strikes into Russia by violating their airspace and bombing their land. Regardless of how you feel about Russia, Putin has previously said that Attacks on the Motherland are a criteria for First Use of Nuclear Weapons.
If you actually go and enforce the No Fly Zone... You are saying you want Nuclear War with the world's largest Nuclear Power. If you want that... I'm not sure you can be sane
The question is what happens after Ukraine. Is it worth the risk. If Putin decides to go for the Baltic States ( And by their conversation with Lukasenko looks like they might ) , then at the moment we are just pro-longing the inventible...
@@kingart23 when has any nation on earth taken action when the US has invaded, occupied and destroyed other countries? Never. So now that Russia is doing it and the US is against it we all have to stop Russia? Nope. I’m not interested in WW3 and nuclear annihilation.
Maybe its better to prolong the inevitable and have a time to prepare rather than facing it right now with limited preparation and with limited planning
@Enrique Morales Sacrifice a little??? Do you understand what will happen if this war turns nuclear? One thing is certain and that is that there will be no one remembering it once it is over.
@@kingart23 what happens after Ukraine? Probably nothing. Russia has shown exactly zero signs of expansionism since the Soviet Union and this war is extremely defensive for them if you know anything about geopolitics. Since the beginning of the 2000s Kissinger and other American officials were warning that Ukraine was a red line for NATO that Russia would not accept being crossed. The Russians habe been warning and trying to diplomatically settle this for 20 years but nobody listened to them. It's very hard to flex by saying that a country reacting against 30 years of their declared enemy expanding to their borders as an agressive and expansionist behavior
Thanks for making this video, it really helps ellaborate on why a no fly zone is such a debated topic at the moment. Im just very sad to see some people don't understand the gravity of this current predicament.
Zelenskiy does not ask NATO to shut russian airplanes. He asks Biden to sell old soviet airplanes NATO has for ukrainian pilots to fly, and also for air defense systems that ukrainians can operate. Both rejected by Biden admin.
That's the current meaning of nonfly zone
@@MAXlMUS did you not watch the video?
It’s not debated amongst people who ca do anything
Peace at all costs is not peace it is the absence of war
Lets just call it a “shootdown zone” maybe that’ll get the message through
What most people don't understand about nuclear warfare is that using 1 nuke can easily and quickly lead to using ALL nukes.
Neither side will ever launch a "limited strike" as it can be either intercepted, or met with a large retaliatory strike that destroys your country. The only logical move is to go all in or none. So we are one misunderstanding, ONE mistake, one silly escalation away from total annihilation.
And you just want to POSTPONE THE WAR? *YOU CAN'T PREVENT NUCLEAR WAR if we still have PUTIN at RUSSIA.* YOU PREVENT NUCLEAR WITH NUCLEAR. THAT'S HOW IT WORKS.
@@mhazg6621 absolute genius right here
It's far worse than that. In the fog of war, how do you tell the difference between a nuclear warhead and a regular missile?
Long story short: you don't.
@@mhazg6621 lol, try that and see what happens
So if I'm Putin reading this I'm thinking I can do anything I want and NATO won't try to stop me. Sorry NATO, you fight him now, or you fight him later, but at a much higher cost. The war for freedom in Europe has already begun.
Not only would NATO aircraft have to shoot down Russian aircraft, they’d have to destroy Russian air defences. Many of these Russian air defences have ranges of hundreds of kilometres, so they can sit in Russia or Belarus and shoot at NATO aircraft over Ukraine, which means to destroy them NATO would have to strike Russian targets *on Russian soil*
We had an alcoholic instead of President to 2000. We wanted to be friends with America, NATO and Europe. We gave up everything for this.
Warsaw pact, USSR, all our world power for friendship... This is not fair, Russia gave everything. And what did we get? I am fully ready for war with west now.
Bro that's messed up. May turned ww3 real quick
@@antonoko No, it isn't.
exactly. and Russia cannot withstand the full NATO might on two or three fronts (Arctic, east, west), which would make Putin use nuclear weapons more likely.
@@IndigoIndustrial Yes it is.
Thank God people have brains understand what a no fly zone would entail
"no fly zone - please stay the f out of my airspace" - J Cole
1. The Russian doctrine is not very air focussed.
2. The Russian air advantage currently does not translate into many strikes because of Ukrainian ground based anti-air.
3. Russians fly low because the long range defenses that can easily hit them up high are still active and dangerous. The current key to keep Russian air support limited are small and numerous AA weapons like MANPADs.
4. A no-fly zone has to destroy both Russian planes and ground based air defenses. It is very simply a direct declaration of war.
This is why weapons like Stingers are currently nicknamed "no-fly zone in a box". A much better alternative unless you want to start WW3.
Russias Air Force has been mainly to support the ground forces, alias what the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact planed to do in a conventional war in Western Europe. Not to win air battles early on like what the western air forces planned to do.
Nato already claim itself that they will not accept the no fly zone that requested by ukraine. There is video about this. I doubt why Vox didnt put this on their video
bombs nowdays have longer range than manpads, and russia have a lot of advance bomber that equel to US one, so its not really help
plus cruise missile
russians are using their aircraft to bomb civilians.
Patriots!!!
To my comprehension, a no fly-zone does not only mean that you shot enemy aircraft in the no fly zone, it also imply that you must protect your aircraft by shooting ground targets most likely in Russia's ground. It is an euphemism for war.
Russia relies on a rail system built in the 1800's to move their army around. Ooooohhh.... Soooooooo advanced! What a joke. Just like Putin. Just like all of you Russian trolls commenting on here.
As Zelenskiy said, Ukraine requested from NATO planes, they were even ready to buy it from alliance. Military found pilots and logistics agreed transportation. The only thing was necessary to give it to Ukraine in order to protect the country/Europe and fight with Putin. I don't understand why it's not possible. This is compromise which doesn't lead to WW3.
@@The_Hagseed Let me ask something, so how should troops and tanks be transferred? Planes are expensive and inefficient and it will take a lot of time to move a big force. But if we look at the railways: cheap, efficient and reliable. Train can carry 40-100 times weight than a cargo plane.
@@The_Hagseed Teleportation would be the next improvement, but I don't see it coming in this century
@@oleksandr7317 Because there's redlines on what you can give combatants before becoming involved, defacto, in the war. Small arms are not planes and the rules have changed quite a bit since the lend-lease shenanigans of the 1940s.
We don't need no-fly zone. We need heavy weapon, we need planes, and then we will make no-fly zone by ourselves.
Excellent explanation
"We want to protect the people of Kyiv, let's establish a no-fly zone!"
"Uhh... are the people of Kyiv immune to nuclear war?"
@@ichijofestival2576 ukraine is gone, russia will control it in the next weeks, and they will take control of any other non-nato country that they like, but nato countries are the red lines that they can't cross because they know that they can't win WW3.
Chornobyl is nearby, so YES
@@ichijofestival2576 Depends on the alliances those countries have. NATO countries are a bright red line that Russia knows is MAD to cross. Any countries with nuclear alliances is a similar red line.
The only reason Ukraine is suffering like this right now, beyond Putin's own ambitions, is because of the lack of such an alliance.
@@epicapexplays8467 you cant say that. putin thought ukraine would be under control within few days but its already two weeks and theres nearly no progress
exactly.
Ahhh yes, another repeat of Libya, except this time it’s with someone who can actually fight back against 40+ countries at once
Ironic how a no-fly zone would have a lot of flying going on.
Love the old air force picture in BDUs and alice gear from the 90s.
So a no-fly zone would immensely help Ukraine but would also probably be a major escalating factor that would take this from a regional conflict to WWIII
basically, or in reality it would make things worse for ukraine, cuz when the war escalates, putin and the russian military will probably have more drastic measures (more civilian casualties, stronger and more lethal weapons)
It's concerning to me why the media is trying to promote the idea of a no-fly zone
I don't want to be nuked
Not from what I've seen. Most are saying that it's not possible for obvious reasons, despite Zelenskyy asking for one.
@@Lockieez the clown is trying to pull other countries into this war.
We just passin' by we just passin' by
It was a mistake not setting up no fly zone.
who's gonna enforce a no fly zone? the fairies of Chernobyl?
What did Ukraine ever do to deserve this? Poor civilians.
Donating millions to the Clintons
omg what are u talking about, or white i might to talking to bot
Their leader poke the bear
When they attacked the Donbas and allowed the US to conduct bio lab experiments in their country.
@@lgbtsrgro0mrs36 You're actually delusional if you seriously believe that.
People need to stop using the term "no fly zone". It would be more appropriatly called a "declaration of war".
a poll in canada had similar support, even when the implications for enforcement were explained. thankfully most canadians aren't in charge of making military decisions!
Thanks for the explanation, I've been confused about this specific war aspect for days. Good job.
I am Ukrainian, and i understand that no fly zone is too much to ask, we appreciate any kind of help, and any kind of sanctions against russia. For sure NATO should not fight our war. I don't know weather ukraine is going to win this war, or not, but i am sure that russia has already lost. I hope this sanctions won't be lifted until russia will ditch it's nukes. The whole reason of this conflict is russians believe that they are still superpower and should have influence around the globe, but the truth is that they have nothing but nukes, no people, no economy and no strong allies. This war should end this once and forever
100 % . Плешивый плюет на весь миропорядок. Самоуверенный до усрачки. Мнимое величие затуманило голову ему и многим россиянам. Но пока наши западные партнеры тянут мы гибнем и разрушаются наши города. Сколько еще украинцев должно умереть. Почему США не смогло гарантировать нам суверенитет и территориальную целостность после того, как мы стали безоружными. Они просто обязаны закрыть нам небо.
this conflict only push other nations to produce nukes because its a deterrence against NATO.
Nothing but nukes... so they are very unlikely to give them up.
Of course Russia is wrong for invading Ukraine but Ukraine is also to blame for this mess. They clearly knew Putin had enough of NATO expansion and would not let Ukraine to join NATO. And you are dreaming if you think Russia is all Nukes. It’s full of great people, Great culture and so many great things like people in Ukraine. I just hope this war ends ASAP.
@@luckyluke1503 I think he means the current state. Most of the population is old, the society is currently totalitarian. And the economy is going downhill
Easy to call for a NFZ but to enforce it? that's a whole different ball game
NFZ looks like NFT 🤣🤣
We want a NoFlyTone (NFT)
He's keeping the planes getting whatever he's after next
Some have said the Russian Air Force is having issue motivating some of their pilots especially at the higher command levels to carry out his orders. And the pilots loyalties are split.
Information warfare
but still bombing civillians
You actually believe this?
@@mike-cc3dd Sounds a lot more believable than Putin is just deciding not to use the majority of his air force because he’s a nice guy.
@@user-cy2iq1gl1t Maybe he expects further conflict. Or maybe it's a test.
The world seriously needs to grow a backbone. You can’t keep worrying about “what ifs”. What matters is what’s happening right now.
With you
Russia shouldn’t be flying into Ukraine in the first place them entering their airspace is them starting a war not the other way round
if ur such a warmonger then go to ukraine and fight there yourself instead of being a selfish warmonger
Counterpoint: No, I don't want to get nuked, thank you very much
NATO countries have nukes too, russia using a nuke will be the end of russia therefore it's unlikely for nukes to ever be used
nuke away the student loans.
@@akolyt World War III, which would come directly as a result of a No Fly Zone, would create countless situations that would inevitably result in nukes flying.
Well, it'll happen soon :)
Don't ever poke the bear or you will be eaten stay out of things and let it slide not doing anything is the best option *no fly zone* this war is the red tape we don't wanna cross not helping the few will help the lot......
What happened to the audio @ 4:18?
If you're calling for a no fly zone, you have an overly simplified understanding of what it is, how it works and the amount of control you'll have after it is effected.
Calling for a No Fly zone at the moment is basically calling the bluff of the worlds largest nuclear power and daring them to use it.
I can see why the people on the ground are calling for it, because they have rockets landing in their homes and can't imagine life getting worse, unfortunately, worse, much worse, & catastrophically worse are all options available to Mr Putin.
Well put
It’ll probably be a bluff but Putin will definitely use it if he’s very desperate and he will be desperate when he’s losing the war and the support back in Russia.
@@denzy374 It's not the immediate use of nukes that you should be worried about, but the fog of war causing neither NATO nor Russia to be able to tell what the other is doing with their nukes.
A no fly zone means world war III, and world war III means the nukes are flying.
If you're calling for one superpower to engage in a proxy war via a small country with another superpower both nuclear Powers I think you have a simplified understanding of the way the world works
@@denzy374 Putin can nuke the West right now if he wants to. I doubt he does it since his generals might now carry out the order, they know Russia would cease to exist. Putin is bluffing. But I don't want to call his bluff, not in the USA's interest.
I wonder if people believe Putin will stop in Ukraine? As a Hungarian american whose family fled the soviet union, I feel like we should consider putin is, after all, a true soviet era russian cheerleader. He probably wacks it to pics of the cold war.
He can't attack countries in NATO
@@marotonin7620 lol you are so optimistic haha
@@marotonin7620 Of course he can. It's just not clear yet whether he is willing to.
@@ntdscherer He will if he wants ww3, by treaty all of NATO comes to any treaty country under attack so that means most of europe.
@@ntdscherer well he said he cant fight nato and russia is not strong enough to beat NATO.
Why is the west media and governments not talking about the simple solution of the problem which is making Ukraine a neutral country, saves millions of lives and I’m 100% sure Ukraine will be neutral sooner or after a huge loss
Putin needs Ukraine to recognize Crimea and Donbass, that's the biggest problem. Ukraine already agreed to be neutral.
US, just send Avengers. They always win.
No fly zone means WWIII.
Thanks to everyone that support my Ukraine, the enemy is strong but were are stronger
Most of eastern ukraine speak russian
I'd prefer if you surrendered instead of dragging us into WW3/Nuclear war.
Have you already fled to Poland, Taras?
@@JewTube001 ehhhm im agaist no fly zone thars first second, no we are not going to surrender
@@alekseiloboda2553 i have been living in Norway for 8 years
I think no fly zone means...no nuclear weapons...