Well thorin, I would say this is one of your best videos in the way is structured and all. I really hope Tryndamere watches it and gives us some form of response/apology. I agree almost in every aspect with what you said. That little part about the Kespa contracts and riot's 'protect the players policy' was hilarious. Keep up the great work!
Which do you think he would pick: Is Thorin: a) An e-stalker b) A cyber-bully c) Morally bankrupt d) rebroadcasting Faker's stream due to saying the word Faker and making this video
Man first Richard now my boy Thorin. I'll be honest, I don't really give a fuck about this whole ordeal, but at least you guys are giving me something to listen to on a slow work night.
Damn I just got a hard core lesson in legal rights to League of Legends. Thorin, you've earned my respect (not worth anything, I guess) and now I'm gonna consider you a paragon of intelligence and understanding.
Thorin you made some excellent points and really hit them hard on the points Tryn was trying to make. Excellent video as always, your content is always amazing, thanks for the hard work and diligence.
Absolutely bang on here Thooorin is. Despite the fact Riot own most of the IP that comes within both Fakers and Starlord's stream (art assets, musical works, sound recordings, etc.), they licensed that out to the wider public under their "Legal Jibber Jabber" document. As a result, the actual content of any game is effectively in the public domain. The only IP rights Faker has as a content holder, is his own stream (which adds specific visuals of facecam and commentary sound recordings). It's just Azubu basically trying to enforce a monopoly over not only Faker's steam footage (which they DO have rights to) but also any publicly-licensed footage which competes with their stream. Utter garbage. As Thooorin said, instead of trying to improve the quality of Faker's stream to draw people in and ignore legit competition (like say OddOne's stream), they're trying to strong-arm the competition away. Example time (little bit simplified but point comes across). Lets say I went to a football match and streamed the game with a shitty handcam and then competed vs the professional television broadcast. I would not be infringing their copyright in their broadcast/cinematograph film as I have not copied their work (taken from a common source). But no one in their right mind would watch my rubbish stream as TV broadcasters add valuable content and quality to their broadcasts to entice viewers (good commentary, improved visuals, better sound quality, etc). They do not need to strong arm against this, as their own quality ensures their market space. As a result, the problem Azubu has is not a legal one. It is a quality problem. Maybe question why your potential viewers prefer the vanilla Twitch version to the Azubu Faker "bells and whistles" stream. Maybe, unlike what you thought when you originally bought the right's to Faker's stream, Faker himself smiling into a Facecam does not add as much commercial "pull" as you would have wished. Now to wait and see what Merill's legal team churn out, because judging by his twitter, he's all about closing "loopholes" and it's a big, murky hole he's about to open. Bloody good vid Thooorin.
Duncan mate, maybe you won't see this, but some of us really appreciate you putting out an (much more educated) alternative perspective on the eSports scene. I'm often really disappointed at how "official" mainstream personalities and even behind-the-scenes workers seem to be so dim and think so overly-emotionally about, well, nigh everything. Your work keeps the air fresh around here. Keep it up.
I always watch your content and most often we never seem to completely see eye-to-eye (but I still love hearing your opinions). Though in this case, I couldn't agree more with you the whole way through.
Is uploading full length games of Faker on UA-cam allowed? I would also like to see someone starting a SpectateFaker on Azubu and see what they will say... oh wait.
Great job hitting every point I could think of and more in discussing this topic. You made good points with good counter arguments. I hope more people see this and gain an overall better grasp of what is happening. And though I doubt it, it would be nice if someone like Tryndamere watched this and made a public apology.
Just to clarify a point you made that was thrown out there Thorin, the SpectateFaker stream added a donate button, not a sub button, in which all money went to charity. The actual account isn't even partnered with Twitch so it can't get a sub button.
Hi Thorin, big time fan and I'm actually taking time at the office to write this because I feel strongly enough about the topic and this script can wait. I agree with almost everything except the part on Bill Burr vs Brian Redba. I love Bill as a comedian and in this case I believe he's correct both legally and morally. An RSS feed is a mechanism designed for convenience of content distribution. Predisposition toward convenience does not presuppose that the content is open to others for the taking, especially with any sort of commercial intent. Whether or not certain content happens to be available via RSS feed is not an argument for its free usage. If I bake an apple pie and put it out on my windowsill to cool it, would you take it and eat it because it was available to consume and conveniently arranged for the taking? Things being easier to take doesn't make it right to take them. Back to the main video topic, Azubu seems to really be overstepping their bounds. I see from a business standpoint where they would get upset, but just because it negatively affects business for you doesn't mean it's illegal. The interface is completely different, anyone can stream their own screen while spectating, etc.
hey ginger dordin, stop banding me comets i just wanna join europia (worse religion) lcd, of course i cant make if you keep censoring stuff by not being american, god bless american, gg
Nice earphones, probably engineered and designed in the superior EU. Surprised they can even fit in your fat American ears cause of the fact that they're designed for Europeans like me and Thorin. EU>NA
also problem is there is many channels who do the same thing as Spectate Faker but they havnt had any bother but soon as its big "super star" then now its a problem. Salty Teemo does for Teemo only player games so whats the differance ??
You know, this whole thing reminds me of how Gamergate was handled - from a movement to hold media responsible, it became accusations of harassment. I've a lot of respect for Marc and still think he'll back out of his statements, but if Riot really antagonize StarLordLucian here and leave Azubu with no consequence for their abuse of copyright law, what'll stop sponsors from bullying everyone they deem against their financial interest?
Welcome to copyright shitstorms on the internet. Many companies (or single unknown entities) have been abusing the DMCA and the content ID system on UA-cam for quite a while. The little guy can only hope that these entities back down, because even invalid claims are a danger to content creators. :(
Thooorin You can even just go to the challenger ladder on the client (if you are on KR server) and if he is in game press an eye icon and spectate him. So how can tryndamere say it is immoral if they added that option themself to the game?
I listened to this while playing Mount & Blade and I found myself paying more attention to the video than the game, even though I had little to no interested in this shit at the start Nice dude, one of your best TTs so far.
legal ruling will be that a spectator cant see what faker see's, which is what people see on his stream perhaps a camera hover on bot lane or his jungler in the enemy jungle, a spectator cant see that and has no clue as to his decision making when choosing to roam for example edit: what riot should be trying to stop is people recording stream footage and posting it on youtube, assuming they're looking out for players
Thooorin What do you think about Azubu stealing Twitchs ToS? It seem like the funniest thing considering this current issue. Twithc paid people lawyers to help the come up with that and Azubu copy and pasted it. seems relevant considering they thought they owned fakers game play
One thing - if Riot added in an Anonymous mode, a box you could check to make your summoner name displayed as a random string in-game and in other people's match history, and disable people looking up your profile/match history/all that jazz with or without the API, then they could argue that they wouldn't have to keep streamers from broadcasting games that contained folks who wanted to avoid being streamed, because there would be no way to identify them or track them. Wouldn't have to mess with the reports system, of course, and would even help out with Riot's anti-witch-hunting stance. Problem is, that'd be a new feature, and Riot's not very good at coming out with those in a timely manner, so if they want to solve this thing right now (so as to appease Azubu), they'll need a stopgap. Obviously there'd be some other issues, with kespa players doubtless being forced to use that mode and thus not being able to gain notoriety and fame via Ranked play, and making it harder for teams to scout one another before matches. But as you've pointed out, Riot gives zero shits about the players, anyway, so unless one hell of a stink was raised, I think this'd be an easy option. Not necessarily the right one, mind you, but I reckon it'd be doable and wouldn't completely fuck over their social gaming stuff with streaming and the like.
***** Who Thorin or Tryndamere because ive committed deadly sin of not watching the video before commenting and Thorin does imply hes asshole and misleading people. Mostly due to Tryndamere actually misleading people to rally people to his cause
Thooorin Alright the way i see it is if he gets enough public outcry he/riot doesnt have to do anything since currently there is no legal option(As far as I know and im no lawyer) and if there forced down the legal road its just going to be a big mess where they may have to change their TOS and affect a lot of other people down the road. The other option what your saying is I have a tinfoil hat on and hes a moron which could be true.
LEL dat spinning joke XD But tbh, as Tryndamere got kinda quiet the last days, even himself seems to realize that what he said was just fucking duckshit.
Also if i wonder if they do anything about this, then what do they do about people taking actual clips of streamers streams and posting to your tube to boost their own views and subs.
A brilliant, brilliant video. People need to wake and realise that riot have done and will continue to do very shady things. I think you raised a very simple point but a great one. If riot did actually class this as bullying then it would be stopped by allowing players to opt out of being able to be spectated. However this would then mean that if I myself were to stream myself playing league of legends and the game I was streaming or spectating had a player in my game that had opted out to being able to be streamed then through streaming my game then I am infact am " bullying " and that player would be able to close my channel. They don't seem to grasp this. Lets take any popular streamer and lets say there are streaming playing as a jungler, they in for a gank and player A fails and dies and that streamer has streamed his death. Does that make it E-stalking or bullying? That player might not have wanted to be shown to 30,000 people live. If the faker stream gets taken down from a legal standpoint, then every single player then has the ability to DMCA a stream that they happen to arbitraryly appear in. People really need to watch this video and understand the technology, the bill bur thing was a good example because I am sure many don't understand, if they did there wouldn't be any talking of rebroadcast or stealing content. It reminds me of the government trying to pass laws on something they don't understand and when caught put they pull the old "it was an accident" aka we are sorry we got caught.
I was too lazy to follow all the Reddit posts or the Twitter feed on the whole issue. Thanks for the breakdown. To expand a bit, considering that you said the way Tryndamere presented Starhorn Lucian was sort of bullying and misrepresenting, couldn't Starhorn then take legal action against both Riot and Azubu? Maybe he has no interest, but when Riot breaks down this guy and calls him a bully (which most would agree is untrue) that would be considered slander. I could be wrong, but it sounds like both Azubu and Riot could be digging themselves into a hole here.
By allowing LoL users to spectate games, Riot has essentially put the replays into the public domain (i.e. anyone can access/see them). This does not necessarily mean that it's owned by the public, but they are legally able to record and distribute the footage. If someone recorded Faker walking down the street and uploaded it to the internet, would there be any legal ground to have that content taken down? No, because anybody could've been on that street watching Faker for themselves.
At the end of the day a channel named Spectate"Faker" and has Faker's face as the icon/logo is more than enough grounds to call violation of IP/copyright. Also I believe it is like the music streaming industry sure you can listen to music privately using various streaming sites, however the moment you stream the music publicly or for commercial use it becomes illegal. OP.GG is a streaming option for private use only.
I think the point of all this is: you can't control content in Internet. Spectate mode, same as RSS feeds is something that means risking you content when you begin to post it in the web. Big companies like Azubu haven't figured out a business model on the content creators they pay to stream, they want to close doors where there are no doors.
best video to the topic i've watched, well the others were nice aswell but one thing shouldnt be completely out of context StarLordLucian is NOT a Fan of Faker, he did that before various other ways with other nics he had a spectate faker stream before and jsut treid to cash in on a good player with donations and ads, i dont say this is legally wrong but he also used viewbotting and now he found a new good way to get public attention to make his income increase :3
dude, in numerous reddit threads he has stated that he has _never made any profits_ To quote *'Additionally, I was not monetizing the games nor planned to. I was running the stream 100% for fun. I had not planned to ever run ads or do a subscribe button, donations, etc. My stream was not partnered. No profit made.'* Later he did add a donate button, but to charity.
***** he did with his old account when he had a donation page and everything, donations subscriptions and ad revenue he was well known for botting his views, he had the same fonts the same images and the same transitions he uses now and both named themself "admin" of their stream... it is the same person than the one that did the same WITH money profits like last time jsut without that (for now) but he gained money in the past from it
***** are you sure you aren't confusing his stream with someone else's? there were 2 faker streams at one point if i remember correctly. Either way, i think you're speculating too much
Add a feature to the spectator mode within client settings to opt of of being camera locked when someone spectates you - if that's even a possibility. Ensure that someone cannot monetize streaming professional players, showing the players within game who have opted in to be spectated through the client and not making money from it should be fine. Otherwise you have this strange situation where you could literally make money from streaming game play, even if it's £20 a month that's still ridiculous. Love your videos Thorin.
He may not be American boys, but this man here has definitely got himself an excellent understanding of freedom of speech! #GetFuktTryndamere #RiotBully #Fight4OurRights
Enjoyed the video! Very detailed and very extensive examination to the situation. I also want to say get well soon, you look a little sick :( I have to say you are on point and very precise about the situation, and the things that Tryndamere said was such hypocrisy it could be categorised as defamation in common law countries (without ridiculous freedom of speech protections that exist in the US, eg in Australia or UK). Furthermore, Riot is caught between the interests of Kespa and the wider viewing base of LoL. As you sated, many people dislike Azubu as a platform and the stream is a connivence alternative to the 60k people who could otherwise watch Faker, through the same technology, through their own personal clients....and how stupid is that when one guy can make the lives of 60k a lot easier.....except here Riot want to prevent stalking and bullying....such a desperate argument.... I think Azubu is scared to loose potential viewer because most of the big Western teams has fled Azubu like the plague, CLG had 1k moved to Twitch and Doublelift can constantly get 20K (approximate, not sure about specifics but it was definitely a huge jump), this situation also shows that people prefer twitch clearly. Therefore from what it seems Azubu are trying to cling onto this last commercial benefit they have over twitch, that only the Korean pro's can stream on their platform, that they feel so aggressive in their defence of that benefit to not loose viewers, otherwise they risk their whole business platform and profits they currently have. But from their behaviour, it just shows desperation....such deep desperation...to protect what Faux ownership of Faker they believe is theirs....
25 minutes in Thought, If you replace Moral with Dick you get some pretty funny Sentences its pretty Immature though. How did i get that from this video? WTF is wrong with me lol? 29:10 is my Favorite so far.
Missed perhaps the most interesting/relative comparison. Remember the "Spectate LCS Pros" streams during S4 Worlds in Korea? The solo q play was widespread, and even referenced by LCS casters (i.e. Riot employees). Definitely the opportune moment to "defend the players" if there were supposed damages. It would have been interesting if that had been brought up throughout the issue. As it is, Goliath "wins". Enjoyed listening to this through a long project. Thanks mate.
[Riot]Tryndamere thinks more about pleasing his business clients instead of the community as whole. 'My right arm is a lot stronger then my left arm' is accurate as fuck. He cant think straight too. Its like Tryndamere with rage bar full. He is outdated as the champion self. WP RITO
I would think the largest problem is that SpectateFaker is using Faker's name in association with a stream which is what Azubu is paying for. He is using the player's name in order to promote the stream which is just as big an issue as the actual content of the stream.
It's not our problem that Azubu's business model sucks balls, and people would rather watch a stream with LESS content but on Twitch instead the actual stream with Fakercam+commentary+whatever else. Both streams are free, but some people pick Twitch version with less content. What does that say?
I love hearing Thooorin putting riot at the spot and bring some light to the spactatefaker case. As someone who also watches Joe Rogans podcast, you should check out the once his done with Maynard James Keenan, he is a very intresting figure just like yourself.
I agree that Azubu and Tryndamere have made some poor decisions on how to resolve this SpectateFaker guy's situation. On the other hand, I believe we were (and still are) all struggling to articulate what this Spectate problem really is and how it should be fixed. As a result of that, there is going to be a lot of confusion and 'hypocrisy' coming from arguments from both sides. There's no need to harp on these kind of mistakes because the key point of all this argument here is to find a solution to move forward that's fair for all parties.
Well thorin, I would say this is one of your best videos in the way is structured and all. I really hope Tryndamere watches it and gives us some form of response/apology. I agree almost in every aspect with what you said.
That little part about the Kespa contracts and riot's 'protect the players policy' was hilarious.
Keep up the great work!
Which do you think he would pick:
Is Thorin:
a) An e-stalker
b) A cyber-bully
c) Morally bankrupt
d) rebroadcasting Faker's stream due to saying the word Faker and making this video
Thooorin He would say morally bankrupt 100%
Thooorin cyber-bully because he'll bring up the caesar comment as a past example
dont you think he would say Thorin is morally bad to not want to protect fakers profits?
James Pazzaglia I would say option d, but i dont want to say exactly what was said as the option because it might happen to me aswell. :(
Man first Richard now my boy Thorin. I'll be honest, I don't really give a fuck about this whole ordeal, but at least you guys are giving me something to listen to on a slow work night.
candy corn crap rappers pale by comparison
Thooorin A Bad Samaritan averaging above average men ;)
Thooorin you quoted an MF doom song YOUR A FUCKING GOD.
I want to see Azubu burn because they've always sucked. So I'll be here with my popcorn.
Let's start a stream where we spectate the guy faker's laning against. GG
Spectate Fakers' Victims...
Max K Perfect name for a stream xD
Max K Don't use Fakers Name. Tryndamere gonna fine u for E-Stalking :D
Not only did Brett Plays copy the reddit comment, but Max K copies the reply TO the reddit comment. Amazing.
Artizan Believe it or not, I don't reddit. That's just an obvious solution. Why you so hostile on the internet?
Damn I just got a hard core lesson in legal rights to League of Legends.
Thorin, you've earned my respect (not worth anything, I guess) and now I'm gonna consider you a paragon of intelligence and understanding.
You only need to read his articles to know that.
Good googly moogly Thorin this is a long one!
Powerful
Thooorin I wanna take you out to dinner and paint honey onto your kneecaps
And w/o vvrotic comment yet.
#SpectateFaker'sEnemy hype? xD xD
darkakalliyt
well the video is so long and vvortic will analyse the video closely and give some really thought - through feedback on the matter
Absolutely destroyed this "issue" with clear, concise logic. EZ.
Very impressive articulation without breaks. Underrated youtuber.
True
Honestly Thorin, you the real MVP. Best content creator to grace the league of legends eSports scene
My favourite piece of journalism in a long time.
Boom! That hurt, didn't it, Marc. A beautiful reproduction and a brilliant analysis. Makes me want to donate.
Thorin you made some excellent points and really hit them hard on the points Tryn was trying to make. Excellent video as always, your content is always amazing, thanks for the hard work and diligence.
Absolutely bang on here Thooorin is.
Despite the fact Riot own most of the IP that comes within both Fakers and Starlord's stream (art assets, musical works, sound recordings, etc.), they licensed that out to the wider public under their "Legal Jibber Jabber" document. As a result, the actual content of any game is effectively in the public domain. The only IP rights Faker has as a content holder, is his own stream (which adds specific visuals of facecam and commentary sound recordings).
It's just Azubu basically trying to enforce a monopoly over not only Faker's steam footage (which they DO have rights to) but also any publicly-licensed footage which competes with their stream. Utter garbage. As Thooorin said, instead of trying to improve the quality of Faker's stream to draw people in and ignore legit competition (like say OddOne's stream), they're trying to strong-arm the competition away.
Example time (little bit simplified but point comes across). Lets say I went to a football match and streamed the game with a shitty handcam and then competed vs the professional television broadcast. I would not be infringing their copyright in their broadcast/cinematograph film as I have not copied their work (taken from a common source). But no one in their right mind would watch my rubbish stream as TV broadcasters add valuable content and quality to their broadcasts to entice viewers (good commentary, improved visuals, better sound quality, etc). They do not need to strong arm against this, as their own quality ensures their market space.
As a result, the problem Azubu has is not a legal one. It is a quality problem. Maybe question why your potential viewers prefer the vanilla Twitch version to the Azubu Faker "bells and whistles" stream. Maybe, unlike what you thought when you originally bought the right's to Faker's stream, Faker himself smiling into a Facecam does not add as much commercial "pull" as you would have wished.
Now to wait and see what Merill's legal team churn out, because judging by his twitter, he's all about closing "loopholes" and it's a big, murky hole he's about to open.
Bloody good vid Thooorin.
I've been waiting for this vod
Duncan mate, maybe you won't see this, but some of us really appreciate you putting out an (much more educated) alternative perspective on the eSports scene. I'm often really disappointed at how "official" mainstream personalities and even behind-the-scenes workers seem to be so dim and think so overly-emotionally about, well, nigh everything. Your work keeps the air fresh around here.
Keep it up.
any news on the new summoning insight?
Thank you for clearing this up Thorin
If it had become a problem, just call the stream "9 players who happen to be playing in the same game as Faker."
Problem solved.
"Wonderful top lane champion." bang bang shots fired
Thoorin loves carry top laners
Thooorin is such a cute boi
They call me the European scarra
Thooorin "They" say a lot of things.
I love it when my two favorite pastimes of League and Joe Rogan/Bill Burr podcasts get combined. Great points Thorin.
I always watch your content and most often we never seem to completely see eye-to-eye (but I still love hearing your opinions). Though in this case, I couldn't agree more with you the whole way through.
For the next video Thorin, Could you give your'e insight on the benching of piglet?
Just in time before naping 1 hour of Kreygasm
49:24 Is the TL:DW for this video guys
I love the way thooorin is explaining something.
thorin's Thoughts in my opinion shows the most in-depth, uncolored journalism in the field. Bravo, i love your shit!
Oh man 1HR video on a hot topic. This is going to be good, thank you Thorin for having your finger on the pulse of the community all the time
Is uploading full length games of Faker on UA-cam allowed?
I would also like to see someone starting a SpectateFaker on Azubu and see what they will say... oh wait.
Thorin laying it down how it is. Great video man.
Great job hitting every point I could think of and more in discussing this topic. You made good points with good counter arguments. I hope more people see this and gain an overall better grasp of what is happening. And though I doubt it, it would be nice if someone like Tryndamere watched this and made a public apology.
21:57 this is just the best part of this video, Good voice Thorin ^^
Powerful Joe Rogan Podcast number 91. Holy shit you've been listening for a while.
Just to clarify a point you made that was thrown out there Thorin, the SpectateFaker stream added a donate button, not a sub button, in which all money went to charity. The actual account isn't even partnered with Twitch so it can't get a sub button.
Sitting down with a cup of tea for this one :^)
Great talk!
The Tryndamere joke cracked me ahah
Let's see what decision will be made about all this
Hi Thorin, big time fan and I'm actually taking time at the office to write this because I feel strongly enough about the topic and this script can wait.
I agree with almost everything except the part on Bill Burr vs Brian Redba. I love Bill as a comedian and in this case I believe he's correct both legally and morally.
An RSS feed is a mechanism designed for convenience of content distribution. Predisposition toward convenience does not presuppose that the content is open to others for the taking, especially with any sort of commercial intent.
Whether or not certain content happens to be available via RSS feed is not an argument for its free usage. If I bake an apple pie and put it out on my windowsill to cool it, would you take it and eat it because it was available to consume and conveniently arranged for the taking? Things being easier to take doesn't make it right to take them.
Back to the main video topic, Azubu seems to really be overstepping their bounds. I see from a business standpoint where they would get upset, but just because it negatively affects business for you doesn't mean it's illegal. The interface is completely different, anyone can stream their own screen while spectating, etc.
hey ginger dordin, stop banding me comets i just wanna join europia (worse religion) lcd, of course i cant make if you keep censoring stuff by not being american, god bless american, gg
He speaks only truth
Nice earphones, probably engineered and designed in the superior EU. Surprised they can even fit in your fat American ears cause of the fact that they're designed for Europeans like me and Thorin. EU>NA
Simple yet effective. 8/10
Cumstain Americunt those are actually middle of the road models tbh.
I was hoping for vvvoric to sound smart for once
Hey Thorin, I really enjoyed this video. It's my first time watching your content, and I've decided to subscribe and watch more. Cheers.
Any thoughts on a video about Kespa?
They might put a hit on him then
also problem is there is many channels who do the same thing as Spectate Faker but they havnt had any bother but soon as its big "super star" then now its a problem. Salty Teemo does for Teemo only player games so whats the differance ??
Do u have no central heating?
Love that you're a fan of the Joe Rogan Experience podcast. I definitely wasn't expecting that!
I was looking forward to this video so much. Gut Rito thorin, do et. Do et hard.
You know, this whole thing reminds me of how Gamergate was handled - from a movement to hold media responsible, it became accusations of harassment. I've a lot of respect for Marc and still think he'll back out of his statements, but if Riot really antagonize StarLordLucian here and leave Azubu with no consequence for their abuse of copyright law, what'll stop sponsors from bullying everyone they deem against their financial interest?
Welcome to copyright shitstorms on the internet. Many companies (or single unknown entities) have been abusing the DMCA and the content ID system on UA-cam for quite a while.
The little guy can only hope that these entities back down, because even invalid claims are a danger to content creators. :(
Does thorin not pay for heating? He's always wearing jackets and and layers inside his house
heyyyy i was asking myself the same question lol.
lol
San Huynh
This comment strikes me as true... and it makes me somewhat sad.
Thanks for the video Thooorin. :)
Why is it so cold in your house?
I love the hot air balloon analogy.
Great video once again ^^
Favorite part:"Sorry, didn't hear you. em.. freedom..freedom"
Thooorin You can even just go to the challenger ladder on the client (if you are on KR server) and if he is in game press an eye icon and spectate him. So how can tryndamere say it is immoral if they added that option themself to the game?
Why is Thorin in a jacket and whatnot? Is his heat out?
"my children" I fucking died
quality video from Thooorin
Why is dordin always wearing coat inside his house?
I listened to this while playing Mount & Blade and I found myself paying more attention to the video than the game, even though I had little to no interested in this shit at the start
Nice dude, one of your best TTs so far.
Holy shit thorin finally had a proper closing to his video .....
That beard is thicker than my ass hair. Good lord.
legal ruling will be that a spectator cant see what faker see's, which is what people see on his stream
perhaps a camera hover on bot lane or his jungler in the enemy jungle, a spectator cant see that and has no clue as to his decision making when choosing to roam for example
edit: what riot should be trying to stop is people recording stream footage and posting it on youtube, assuming they're looking out for players
Finally someone who sees it how it is.... Most of this seems like common sense and no1 seems to see it...
Thooorin What do you think about Azubu stealing Twitchs ToS? It seem like the funniest thing considering this current issue. Twithc paid people lawyers to help the come up with that and Azubu copy and pasted it. seems relevant considering they thought they owned fakers game play
"You're not immune to looking like a fucking moron" XD, love it
Is uh, your heater broken?
One thing - if Riot added in an Anonymous mode, a box you could check to make your summoner name displayed as a random string in-game and in other people's match history, and disable people looking up your profile/match history/all that jazz with or without the API, then they could argue that they wouldn't have to keep streamers from broadcasting games that contained folks who wanted to avoid being streamed, because there would be no way to identify them or track them. Wouldn't have to mess with the reports system, of course, and would even help out with Riot's anti-witch-hunting stance. Problem is, that'd be a new feature, and Riot's not very good at coming out with those in a timely manner, so if they want to solve this thing right now (so as to appease Azubu), they'll need a stopgap. Obviously there'd be some other issues, with kespa players doubtless being forced to use that mode and thus not being able to gain notoriety and fame via Ranked play, and making it harder for teams to scout one another before matches. But as you've pointed out, Riot gives zero shits about the players, anyway, so unless one hell of a stink was raised, I think this'd be an easy option. Not necessarily the right one, mind you, but I reckon it'd be doable and wouldn't completely fuck over their social gaming stuff with streaming and the like.
Do you actually think Tryndamere doesnt know? He intentionally misleading people and im actually surprised you didnt even think about it that way
***** Who Thorin or Tryndamere because ive committed deadly sin of not watching the video before commenting and Thorin does imply hes asshole and misleading people. Mostly due to Tryndamere actually misleading people to rally people to his cause
I don't think he is an incredible actor, if that's what you're asking. He really does seem to be that ignorant.
Thooorin Alright the way i see it is if he gets enough public outcry he/riot doesnt have to do anything since currently there is no legal option(As far as I know and im no lawyer) and if there forced down the legal road its just going to be a big mess where they may have to change their TOS and affect a lot of other people down the road. The other option what your saying is I have a tinfoil hat on and hes a moron which could be true.
He knows, but making Tryndamere look like an ignorant fuck even though he is the co-owner is hilarious.
LEL dat spinning joke XD
But tbh, as Tryndamere got kinda quiet the last days, even himself seems to realize that what he said was just fucking duckshit.
Nice summary of what's been happening
Also if i wonder if they do anything about this, then what do they do about people taking actual clips of streamers streams and posting to your tube to boost their own views and subs.
A brilliant, brilliant video. People need to wake and realise that riot have done and will continue to do very shady things. I think you raised a very simple point but a great one. If riot did actually class this as bullying then it would be stopped by allowing players to opt out of being able to be spectated. However this would then mean that if I myself were to stream myself playing league of legends and the game I was streaming or spectating had a player in my game that had opted out to being able to be streamed then through streaming my game then I am infact am " bullying " and that player would be able to close my channel. They don't seem to grasp this.
Lets take any popular streamer and lets say there are streaming playing as a jungler, they in for a gank and player A fails and dies and that streamer has streamed his death. Does that make it E-stalking or bullying? That player might not have wanted to be shown to 30,000 people live.
If the faker stream gets taken down from a legal standpoint, then every single player then has the ability to DMCA a stream that they happen to arbitraryly appear in.
People really need to watch this video and understand the technology, the bill bur thing was a good example because I am sure many don't understand, if they did there wouldn't be any talking of rebroadcast or stealing content. It reminds me of the government trying to pass laws on something they don't understand and when caught put they pull the old "it was an accident" aka we are sorry we got caught.
What Tryndamere has been doing is slander and could have legal implamentions. He is also putting the company at risk since he represents them.
Where are you from Thorin?
The universal source. You?
I was too lazy to follow all the Reddit posts or the Twitter feed on the whole issue. Thanks for the breakdown. To expand a bit, considering that you said the way Tryndamere presented Starhorn Lucian was sort of bullying and misrepresenting, couldn't Starhorn then take legal action against both Riot and Azubu? Maybe he has no interest, but when Riot breaks down this guy and calls him a bully (which most would agree is untrue) that would be considered slander. I could be wrong, but it sounds like both Azubu and Riot could be digging themselves into a hole here.
By allowing LoL users to spectate games, Riot has essentially put the replays into the public domain (i.e. anyone can access/see them). This does not necessarily mean that it's owned by the public, but they are legally able to record and distribute the footage.
If someone recorded Faker walking down the street and uploaded it to the internet, would there be any legal ground to have that content taken down? No, because anybody could've been on that street watching Faker for themselves.
At the end of the day a channel named Spectate"Faker" and has Faker's face as the icon/logo is more than enough grounds to call violation of IP/copyright. Also I believe it is like the music streaming industry sure you can listen to music privately using various streaming sites, however the moment you stream the music publicly or for commercial use it becomes illegal. OP.GG is a streaming option for private use only.
I think the point of all this is: you can't control content in Internet. Spectate mode, same as RSS feeds is something that means risking you content when you begin to post it in the web. Big companies like Azubu haven't figured out a business model on the content creators they pay to stream, they want to close doors where there are no doors.
Thorin m8 it's good to see you drinking some high quality h2o, stay highdrated my friend
best video to the topic i've watched, well the others were nice aswell
but one thing shouldnt be completely out of context
StarLordLucian is NOT a Fan of Faker, he did that before various other ways with other nics he had a spectate faker stream before and jsut treid to cash in on a good player with donations and ads, i dont say this is legally wrong but he also used viewbotting and now he found a new good way to get public attention to make his income increase :3
he doesn't run ads...
dude, in numerous reddit threads he has stated that he has _never made any profits_
To quote *'Additionally, I was not monetizing the games nor planned to. I was running the stream 100% for fun. I had not planned to ever run ads or do a subscribe button, donations, etc. My stream was not partnered. No profit made.'*
Later he did add a donate button, but to charity.
***** he did with his old account when he had a donation page and everything, donations subscriptions and ad revenue he was well known for botting his views, he had the same fonts the same images and the same transitions he uses now and both named themself "admin" of their stream...
it is the same person than the one that did the same WITH money profits like last time jsut without that (for now) but he gained money in the past from it
ah. from the time i watched it, he made sure to have none of that running (probably for obvious reasons)
***** are you sure you aren't confusing his stream with someone else's? there were 2 faker streams at one point if i remember correctly. Either way, i think you're speculating too much
Add a feature to the spectator mode within client settings to opt of of being camera locked when someone spectates you - if that's even a possibility.
Ensure that someone cannot monetize streaming professional players, showing the players within game who have opted in to be spectated through the client and not making money from it should be fine. Otherwise you have this strange situation where you could literally make money from streaming game play, even if it's £20 a month that's still ridiculous.
Love your videos Thorin.
"if all laws were moral they would never be changed". Because Morality is a fixed construct that never changes...
Thorin's Thoughts - Who is vvvortic? (LoL)
I demand an update based on Tryndamere's new comments!
Do we like it? do we hate it?
Hahahaha Monday morning podcast is so good! Great episode of the joe rogan podcast.
Imagine a world where Riot hired Richard Lewis and Thorin as consultants
i hate to be that guy but... but are you wearing like 5 shirts? at home?
Man do you not own a heater?
Wow ur talking an hour about dis subject without talking any bullshit, good quality podcast!
Take my sub :)
Someone streamed Origen 5v5 ranked games, but I guess that was fine... didnt see marc merrill complain about that
He may not be American boys, but this man here has definitely got himself an excellent understanding of freedom of speech! #GetFuktTryndamere #RiotBully #Fight4OurRights
just finished richard's video time for this one (:
Enjoyed the video! Very detailed and very extensive examination to the situation. I also want to say get well soon, you look a little sick :(
I have to say you are on point and very precise about the situation, and the things that Tryndamere said was such hypocrisy it could be categorised as defamation in common law countries (without ridiculous freedom of speech protections that exist in the US, eg in Australia or UK). Furthermore, Riot is caught between the interests of Kespa and the wider viewing base of LoL.
As you sated, many people dislike Azubu as a platform and the stream is a connivence alternative to the 60k people who could otherwise watch Faker, through the same technology, through their own personal clients....and how stupid is that when one guy can make the lives of 60k a lot easier.....except here Riot want to prevent stalking and bullying....such a desperate argument....
I think Azubu is scared to loose potential viewer because most of the big Western teams has fled Azubu like the plague, CLG had 1k moved to Twitch and Doublelift can constantly get 20K (approximate, not sure about specifics but it was definitely a huge jump), this situation also shows that people prefer twitch clearly. Therefore from what it seems Azubu are trying to cling onto this last commercial benefit they have over twitch, that only the Korean pro's can stream on their platform, that they feel so aggressive in their defence of that benefit to not loose viewers, otherwise they risk their whole business platform and profits they currently have. But from their behaviour, it just shows desperation....such deep desperation...to protect what Faux ownership of Faker they believe is theirs....
you had me at 2k15
25 minutes in Thought, If you replace Moral with Dick you get some pretty funny Sentences its pretty Immature though. How did i get that from this video? WTF is wrong with me lol? 29:10 is my Favorite so far.
Missed perhaps the most interesting/relative comparison.
Remember the "Spectate LCS Pros" streams during S4 Worlds in Korea? The solo q play was widespread, and even referenced by LCS casters (i.e. Riot employees). Definitely the opportune moment to "defend the players" if there were supposed damages. It would have been interesting if that had been brought up throughout the issue. As it is, Goliath "wins".
Enjoyed listening to this through a long project. Thanks mate.
[Riot]Tryndamere thinks more about pleasing his business clients instead of the community as whole. 'My right arm is a lot stronger then my left arm' is accurate as fuck. He cant think straight too. Its like Tryndamere with rage bar full. He is outdated as the champion self. WP RITO
Solid vid Thorin.
I would think the largest problem is that SpectateFaker is using Faker's name in association with a stream which is what Azubu is paying for. He is using the player's name in order to promote the stream which is just as big an issue as the actual content of the stream.
It's not our problem that Azubu's business model sucks balls, and people would rather watch a stream with LESS content but on Twitch instead the actual stream with Fakercam+commentary+whatever else.
Both streams are free, but some people pick Twitch version with less content. What does that say?
It's actually INCREDIBLY crazy how much Mark Merill doesn't know about his own game..
spot on m8, spot on
I love hearing Thooorin putting riot at the spot and bring some light to the spactatefaker case.
As someone who also watches Joe Rogans podcast, you should check out the once his done with Maynard James Keenan, he is a very intresting figure just like yourself.
I agree that Azubu and Tryndamere have made some poor decisions on how to resolve this SpectateFaker guy's situation. On the other hand, I believe we were (and still are) all struggling to articulate what this Spectate problem really is and how it should be fixed. As a result of that, there is going to be a lot of confusion and 'hypocrisy' coming from arguments from both sides. There's no need to harp on these kind of mistakes because the key point of all this argument here is to find a solution to move forward that's fair for all parties.