Peter Dun Serves the Tea on Heretics, Signings and Perkz - Talk to Thorin - League of Legends
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- Опубліковано 10 січ 2025
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Peter Dun, former head coach of Evil Geniuses and Team Heretics, talks to Thorin about his time working with Team Heretics over the last two years. He explains the reasoning behind all of the roster moves, benchings and drama over that time period, including the highly publicised split between Perkz and Araneae in the spring of this year.
This interview was recorded on the 11th of December, 2024.
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#Perkz #Araneae #Thorin
In an industry as chicken shit as esports, Peter Dun has consistently shown to be a great coach and principalled individual. His retirement is a real loss to LOL esports, but I hope he enjoys his time with his family now
And his retirement also shows you how shitty the eSports environment is. It took a lot to make someone that passionate to turn his back to the scene. After all those years...
How though? i am not saying he is a bad coach. But how do we know he is a great coach? we dont even know what he acctually does behind the scenes no? again not trying to say he is bad or did a bad job just how do you know he did a great job everytime though? it is not like you can even know what he does, it is not a player who you can judge based on his performance (which also can be flawed)
@XIplupIX The vast majority of his rosters throughout his time as a coach showed him to be a great scouter of upcoming talent. Not only that, but the fact that many of the players who were great under him, were far less impressive elsewhere (Kaiser, Humanoid, Jojo) also seems to show that he was able to get the best out of players
@SkinnyCretin14 did it? Th for example was a disaster whcih is not nessacary his fault but i think therr arr a good amount of teams with stacked player that dudnt perform that well while having him.
@XIplupIX Yeah TH was not great but there seemed to be a lot of behind the scene issues there. It's also why I said the majority of his work shows he was a great coach, as very few if any coaches don't have dud seasons/splits. There's also only so much they can do.
I don't think there have been a lot of stacked rosters he managed. If anything most of them are development squads that massively overperformed.
Respect to Peter for following his principles to the end time and time again, regardless of the personal toll it takes
Indeed
Thorin has consistently proven to be my favorite interviewer in esports, and Peter has consistently proven to be my favorite interviewee in esports. Not close on either account.
As eye opening as Perkz' shenanigans were, what I found the most interesting is how emotionally intelligent Peter Dun is, how maturely he handled every situation and how he was always one step ahead of every obstacle. The one thing he couldn't predict was a tree falling through his window 😂
Indeed
Peter Dun is a gentleman, a man that has an eye for talent among players, a man with long term vision. To see Peter retired is a loss to the scene. No one is as eloquent as Peter. Thank you Peter for all you have given, wishing you all the best.
After all that happened, Peter still takes an objective position and sees a way for Perkz to excel and fit a team. What a fantastic organisation builder, he could be a great GM.
Crazy lore given in this episode
This is just Dun dropping bomb after bomb
Peter Dun Scorches Perkz on his way out of Esports. Seemingly, deservedly so. Not the kind of thing to ruin Perkz' legacy, but it does cast a shadow on the already tenebrous final chapter of his career.
TBF He clarified on the reddit post that this is far from the worst behaviour from players on his team or that he has heard of. Just the only one that made it out
Perkz has done more than enough to ruin his own legacy
Huge respect to Peter for speaking so openly. Now alot of rumors can be put to bed.
Loved every time he appeared in an interview or podcast, and hope it's not the last time people are able to hear from him.
Wish Peter a nice retirement and a wonderful time with his family.
Thank you Peter for doing this interview. I hope to see you in E-Sport again in the future and I will always hold on hope. Every interview/podcast you managed to do between coaching was always a gem and worth a listen to, enjoyed each one I managed to watch.
Also thank you Thorin for having such a platform. Sometimes I forget how important your voice truly is until something like this.
As a coach myself who've had many former players go on to work with Peter in the LEC, they always tell me stories about how great of a guy he is. Truely an idol, both as a man and in the craft of coaching
1:03:50 the sigh from Thorin realising how much of a baby Perkz has become is wonderful.
Sounds like here they said that he's been like this most of his career ua-cam.com/video/ktPtJma1w2o/v-deo.htmlsi=bXJaDGO22lHpmFiD&t=6584
I see Thorin and Peter Dun. I click on the video.
Simple as.
This was the most insightful podcast/interview I've watched recently. In hindsight, I and most people were too quick to judge Peter and some of the players when they were just trying their best to play the sh*t hand they were dealt.
Wow what an interview. Surely Peter cant work in esports again after this which is a shame. Great work by Thoorin as always.
Why couldnt he btw?
The craziest part about this deal between Aranea and Perkz to behave in order to change supports is the fact that BEHAVING should be a basic fucking part of the job! Perkz essentially created a hostile situation and then used it as leverage to make roster moves? Wtf?! You don't get to do that! How about you act like an adult doing your job like the contract you signed says you should and then we'll see about getting better pieces later if we feel like it?
Nothing more satisfying than Thorin hearing his favourite player is just as much as a diva as Rekkles lmao.
He’ll never admit it, though 😂
Same thing happened with forgiven
Thorin loves the cocky divas, he just prefers that they are self-aware about it.
The question is if perkz is acctually a diva. His on stream stuff in los ratones does not show it. The players he played with also do not seem to share that opinion. Bwipo rather said that rekkles has to speak more his mind and rathee tries to find his own solution to a problem than force a teammates to go out of his way to solve it for him. Grabbz was the only one who said that he was like a diva. He could be right but it clahes witu othee opinion so ahed to say which ones are true could be both but definerly not enough informatioj to make a definitive decision
Fantastic episode! These are truly unique to your channel Duncan
I thought I wasn't going to be interested in a Heretics podcast, I was wrong. This was the best interview evi.
I always love a Peter interview
Thorin continues to deliver when it matters. If you're in esports and want your story told, talk to Thorin.
Homestly it's such a shame to see Peter go, thank you for the amazing splits and amazing teams. Its pretty clear just how much you care about the ecosystem, development and above all your players. We'll miss you Peter ❤️
great show like always with Peter, i will miss him in the esport scene
Thorrin does it again Great video mate and good thanks to Peter Dunn
based on this interview i can t imagine that perkz will ever find a team in the lec considering how lowly lec values their veterans and paired with this behaviour its gg for him
Yeah this is a horrible look, resource heavy playstyle that doesn’t work, huge ego to the point he sabotages the team structure to get his way, and on top of performing like a 10th place mid in his final split.
It's a sad end. gg wp
Tbf he has addressed it on the reddit thread for the video as well and said that Perkz behaviour isn't uncommon and is nowhere near the worse he has seen on his own teams. This is just the only one thats come out
quite frankly the problem wasnt even his behavior alone. it was his behavior plus the fact that he also played shit on stage. if he played better on stage, im not sure this wouldve blown up as much as it did.
So much tea being spilled in this episode that you could have opened a Tea shop with it.
This is so great interview-talk.
My brothers in Christ, Thorin interviews need timestamps.
Exactly its like 2 hours what the fuck
29:45 for sure, Nemesis
That's what I thought as well. Was this ever "confirmed?" I always heard teams wanted Neme but never heard which ones
There were rumors at the time that Bwipo and Nemesis are a package deal, so this seems to confirm that, had to have been Nemesis
Nemesis even said on stream that Heretics made an offer to him and he even mentioned that he was confused on why was Jackspectra demoted because they told him it was due to champ pool issues
An amaizing interview Thorin! Thank you Peter for sharing. It was a great insight into the inner workings behind the scene. You'll be a great loss to e-sports. I hope you enjoy your retirement!
Every time I listen to one of the recaps from Peter, makes me realize Esports is so unserious
True
Imagine if some of these people like maybe Michael Jordan or Roy Keane had to deal with a diva like this, another comment said this isn't even the worst behaviour Peter Dunn has seen..
This is honestly just sad to watch. It seems like Perkz drank too much of his own cool aid. From 2018 to 2020 he was propably the player who brought Europe's game understanding and macro further than anyone before so this inability or unwillingness to learn and adapt to how the game is played now is honestly a bit shocking. It's especially sad for the players whose careers he tanked with this behavior. Kaiser actually looked good for the first time since he left MAD and Wunder plus Jankos are still at least top 3 in their respective roles but are now jobless. It also puts Vit 23 in a whole new light because if Perkz wants to be the solo carry and only wants to play for lategame, it's no wonder Upset and Bo didn't work out with him. Upset came from Fnc where he and Hilly were the ultimate smash lane and win duo and Bo wants to simply outplay the enemy from minute one.
I honestly think that if Perkz was to let go of the ego, admit that the game might have evolved and cut out that diva behavior he could still be great for many teams in the league but at this point his reputation might actually be so bad that he'll never play in the LEC again. I just hope that Wunder, Jankos, Bo, Kaiser and Trymbi will find their way back in into the LEC again. They're just too good to not play.
I am more disappointed on Thorin how he continued to protect and stan Perkz all these years while knowing how problematic he is in G2, VIT and Heretics. You kept even saying he was LEC goat over Caps. LEC doesnt even deserve Caps. Peter dunn is a hero in all of this.
Very sad to see Peter retiring from eSports, but tbh sounds like its the best choice for him
I hope this isn’t the last interview Peter Dun does, hopefully he’s on the eg files
Holy absolutefuckinglutely great person ever in esports. Peter Dun, we all salute you.
Really interesting insides. Thank you!Thorin shows once again professionalism is more important than personal preferences (it seemed like Perkz is one of his favourite players). All in all a cultural mismatch between staff and at least one player.
From the beginning the coaching staff didnt want Perkz and his ideas in the team. No excuse for this behaviour but maybe a reason why it turned out this way. I always thought he was good at adapting and self reflecting..
What a nightmare for Jankos 😅
Tbf to assess thorins professionalism with that we have to look at what his future takes on perkz will be
what a fucking banger of an episode
Anyone that has watched Perkz play for the last 4 years and then heard any of his interviews or appearances could tell that this guy is a serious egomaniac who refuses to take any responsability for anything, no matter what! It is always some other person's fault, and he won before so it must mean he is always right
Peter Dunzo Manifesto
I love peter dun
I went back and watched the Dom interview and I cannot believe how despicable Perkz comes off as
Peter is a beast, sad to see him leave, glad that he's on to greener pastures though.
1:09:46 Incompetent player who genuinely believes he knows best is worse than a dogshit player who knows he's bad
Heretics management is crazy. First, holding onto Bwipo's verbal agreement despite hearing about his agent talking to Flyquest. Second, thinking they can negotiate with a habitual line stepper.
absolutely agreed. whats even the point of a coach if he has no authority? ive been thinking about this, korea/china has clear hierarchies, the west traditionally has more flat hierarchies, not just in esports but in general work culture. western work culture works very effectively tho, so how come its not working in esports? its probably because esports is full of children and young adults who probably never worked for a well structured company full of competent people. they dont go through any education to acquire a qualification, they just enter esports at 18 years old with zero life experience. i mean for gods sake, they dont even know how to read contracts and negotiate them. you see even star players sign shitty contracts that they could very likely have negotiated in their favor. and by shitty contracts i dont mean the financial aspect, im talking about everything else.
career ender for perkz
would love if there were timestamps
1:40:47 i think the reason heretics made this decisionnwas probably ego based. For Peter, an expert at putting his own ego aside to do the right thing, it seems super non-sensical, but from the perspective of someone working in corporate HR for the last 3 years, Peter was overruled then proven right too many times. Someone senior was developing an inferiority complex, and wanted to prove peter wrong more than he wanted good results.
If all this is true, perkz really needs to question himself and work on himself. I think he still can't come to terms with the fact that his hands are gone and he's no longer a top player
who is the midlaner that wanted to play with Bwipo, is it Nemesis?
Yes
Nemesis could have went to Flyquest with Bwipo but he didn't want to play in LCS cause iirc it would kill his stream
Will always love Perkz. This however, remains a banger.
Can someone enlighten on me on what mid laner is being referred to regarding being a package deal with bwipo and not wanting to play with jack?
Absolute cinema 🔥
crazy enditement of Heretics and Perkz, both just sound so bad from this interview, its also so funny that Heretics this year finally became a developmental one after all this. Also I really wanted to believe in perkz these last few years and hearing Peter's breakdown of his vit year and this year its just all so cooked... i wonder how Dom's NLC team is gonna go DXXXX
Banger content as always so thank you Thorin and Peter. I've had my reservations towards Heretics but man this puts them in a different light and it's not pretty. I need to say I'm sorry Peter for judging you even if I hadn't voiced my thoughts anywhere. Massive respect for your work and I hope you enjoy your retirement.
My question/thing that bothers me is why would you want Evi to be in game leader if you already know that he isn't fluent in english and he will struggle with the adaptation to the LEC for the first year? Isn't the in game leader for a rookie team needed from the get-go?
So many people got burned. Especially sad about Jackspectra and Mrsa
Ended up with 17 Leaguepedia tabs open trying to follow along this timeline😅
Man I will never understand why it was so obfuscated about players being sick or not, I've recently heard so much about players being sick in big games where it looks like they chocked or something and then are incredibly memed on and hated. In esports unlike physical sport where you can actually play while sick but even if its not obvious youre obviously affected while playing your decision making is just slower and you miss out on stuff cause you snowball fuckups.
If its true that Ruby was incredibly sick during the 3 week winter split which then affected his mental going into spring which then possibly snowballed into him having weak mental cause of his previous bad performances and pressure from the viewers then this is is incredibly important context where at least a few viewers could know the circumstance and hopefully alleviate the public discourse about the players/teams.
because enemies will target him if they know he isnt at 100%? kinda simple to grasp really.
omg perkz is never getting a job after this. How can you do all this as a veteran.
Damn this changed my perspective completly at the situation completly understandeble why perkz has not found succes if this is how he behaves
Last few years*
I will always be Perkz fan but this wasn't okay if true. I hope he learns from this and gets humbled
Peter leaving the scene is very sad news indeed
Oof. Even if you call Perkz one of the western GOAT's, this makes him come off as more of a Lebron and less a Jordan.
Jesus, this whole perkz stuff was wild, he is still my goat. But yeah I dunno how I would handle player like him either. I still think he has skills for LEC, but no way would I bring him on a team with this attitude.
This info is insane
im only halfway through but peoples suspicion that heretics is an incompetent org who have no idea what theyre doing. reminds me of formula 1 teams like alpine or aston martin who demand short term results when this is not at all how you become successful. its always about the long term and giving the people time to get there
Guess we found out why perkz is playing top in ruddy esports
It will be an eye opener for Perkz that toplane is not the same as in 2018 either lmao. He is gonna get smoked by proxy inter Baus and retired old man Czhachi and reality checked. With this kind of attitude especially on stream 24/7 he won't last any longer than 1 split of ERL. The only thing that can redeem Perkz is for him to shut up and just be a peon for Jankos to control
wait, were they talking about nemesis and bwipo in a team? wtf lol
1:09:08 i would have called him a chad blind picking yasuo, you blind pick saying you really dont give a fuck about what the other guy can do, then you int and blame the couch lol
Damn this whole perkz thing is so sad sounds like a complete diva will Thorin ever roast or flame perkz as a teammate bcus this goes completely against everything that we were told from creators about who is is
Evi ❤
heretics shit show. really sad that jackspectra, kaiser, flakked, and zwyroo suffered bc of this.
lol how do you constantly deal with players like that, do they not care about the money they are investing
tl;dr Perkz was so toxic that he made Peter Dun leave esport
well and heretics management not giving any shit about peters opinions and his approach. like they gave peter effectively zero authority, what was even the point of having him in the first place
I’m racist and I thought that was Maui
Trash
Omg, all perkz did was to whine and oppose everyone like a villain, one day decided to walk to a manager saying kaiser should get fired all by himself without consulting anyone. What a monster! An absolute fiend!
God damn it thorin stop breathing down my ear place that mic a bit farther away from you.
Vouching for Kaiser is crazy when even CARZZY in his reflections interview with Thorin laughed about how bad Kaiser is. The problem is simple, a coach who is about development in a non development roster.
Also absolutely love Peter Dunn listened to all his thorin videos for years, he will be missed
When people call Peter Dun a development coach, that doesn't mean he's a one trick pony. He just prefers rookies because of the hierarchy that's involved. How could you watch this whole interview and say Peter was the problem
@ the problem was perkz but it was also a coach who didn’t know how to deal with the problems he was faced with immediately. He could’ve acted faster to let perkz dig his own grave way too late
Did you not watch that Winter split? Kaiser was genuinely playing the best out of that roster. Yes Kaiser was rather garbage in 2023 but again, he played really well in 2024 Winter.
@ I remember everyone seeing flakked as very vocal and they say that’s the reason why Kaiser played better. I mean carzy said he’s bad and everyone else who he’s played with that I know of says he’s bad now someone he hasn’t played with says he isn’t bad. I trust the people he played with.
@ read above
While Perkz acted unprofessionally, it seems Peter didn't have the skills to be able to work in this system and had an antagonistic relationship with Perkz. It makes sense since Peter mostly likes coaching shapeable rookies. That being said, the whole Heretics roster idea shifting on whims was very sus - such as planning for veteran top and 4 rookies, then not having 4 rookies and still going veteran washed top
Peter wasnt given any authority, he didnt even want to sign Perkz in the first place. And the way 2024 went, you can see that Peter was mostly right about his intuition.
ahhh , ahhhhhhh , ahhhhhhhh , ahhhhhh, ahhhhhhhhhh , ahhhhhh (Peter Dun )