dordin how can you say proteintial is nonsonse , im actually challenjour mechonically proteintial but stuck in bronze elo hell because trolls, but you wouldnt know that because you dont pray legend of leguer but instead trash talk like a toxin that you are, you should be banned from legend of leaguer scene, gg
errrr, ye his videos are long, but his content is narrow, he is talking about one thing for 25 mins in every video, thats not a lot of content, thats indepth content
This is an excellent topic to elaborate upon. I love that you finally explained your thoughts on this. I've agreed for a while with a lot of your (and Monte's) analysis, but I couldn't exactly pinpoint the reason. This is it.
Hey thorin, you're quickly becoming not only my favorite esports personality but also my favorite youtuber. I get stoked when I see your videos in my sub box. I dont follow league, but I even enjoy these videos because of your in depth analysis on all subjects regarding esports. So heres a proper thank you mate! I appreciate all the content. - a proper thank you
Great video, I like how you tied in the fact that potential is kind of an emotional thing and has alot of biasy because the fact that when Cloud9 (Quantic Gaming) first qualified for the LCS, I heard maybe one or two people involved with the pro scene who said that Cloud9 would be a team to look out for, when all the other pros like doublelift said they would probably finish only top 4 or something like that, due to the current pros not being willing to admit that a new team can possibly beat all the best teams. Obviously what happened afterwards doesn't need any explanation.
On the topic of potential of Xpecial VS Bunny. It's like asking a flower to improve as fast as a bud. We don't know how good Bunny can get, we do already know what type of player Xpecial is. Potential is overused, but Xpecial/Bunny example is a weird one.
I think the video would be better if you used some graphs/stats to back up your points. Around 9:00 for example, you could compare KDAs(or whatever you think works better) between different splits for certain players. This could be added even after the recording. You could just drop a slide over the video for a few seconds while the sound still goes on.
Thooorin Hey great vids, bro. Ive noticed that in a past summoning insight you mentioned your dislike for the west casters lack of analysis, could you make a video on the lack of analysis combined with the absence of critique of players :)
What if a first timer in the pro-scene (like someone who just sub into a big game) does amazing, doesn't that show he has "potential" if he gets more experience?
tG Gnar You didnt understand shit dude. What he said is that people always think that someone WILL improve and become SIGNIFICANTLY better. Most new players only improve a bit, think about Shiphtur ppl said hes gonna be the best blabla now 2 splits after he still is mid/low tier player.
so basically its an arguement of WHAT IF A compared to WHAT IF B. If so then wouldn't it be better to assume the more reasonable outcome will occur? such as well this inexperienced newbie did pretty well therefore if he resolved his problem of inexperience he will likely improve as opposed to after curing this inexperience he will do worse.
no no no you understand theres trolls in diamond elo he said oh your on promos i'm going to afk he killed a gollems at red side then he sat there the whole game. Theres elo boosted players. The list goes on i hope riot hard reset ranked for the elo boosters, i was watching gripex stream yesterday and this guy was tilting according to gripex but the guy said he bought the account.
Yo Thoorin whether youre wrong or right, these talks of yours are still always very interesting and insightful to hear from a different point of view in a person that doesnt play as much league as other people that talk about these topics, keep it up!am also a big clg fan if that changes anything
perhabs "potential" as a tangible thing exists if a person is still on a process of active learning, but not on top level where contestants are expected to be already touching their limits of how good they can get.
Potential for me just means raw material. Raw material is enhanced by the activities and structure you use alongside that material. Doublelift once said that the Korean scene will always be 2 years behind the NA scene. This is the same argument that Xpecial will always be ahead of Bunny Fufu. If you ask why the Korean scene should have more upside than the NA scene, it's because it's got more material to work with e.g. the infrastructure and experience from starcraft. And true enough the Korean scene has caught up and more. In the context of e-sports (and sports in general), people look at the combination of talents on a team and try to make an estimate on their minds of what they could achieve. This is a perfectly sound exercise. Miami for instance when Lebron and co. joined (colluded?) together they had a lot of potential. They still had to work through the setup of how to work together, how to make best use of all their raw talents. By applying specific arrangements and structure, they were able to realize their potential. When people look at CLG, people see the talent but wonder whether they can find the proper arrangements and be able to work together to produce results. Unfortunately they weren't able to do that. I don't really see why potential is nonsense in any context.
I think you kind of overlook one important aspect of 'Potential': It adds so much flavor and emotion to the enjoyment of the sport from a fans point of view. Being a fan of player (especially being fan of a western player, because you know for a fact that there are at least 20 koreans who can play way better) would be only half the enjoyment it is if you could not make yourself believe that the guy you are a fan of could do this flashy play next time or make it to worlds with his team next split etc. Speaking of potential as a fan is speaking of hope. You hope, you want to believe that he can do better. So of course you will cherry-pick his best moments, those are the ones you will remember often, and draw your conclusions about his future from those moments. Of course, as you said, if general managers acted this way, the team would be boned. Again, the crucial point is: We are fans, we are not managers. We want to believe, we want to hope, and essentially: We want to suffer, we want to be disappointed, just for this one guy out of six who makes the flashy plays in the playoffs and makes it to worlds with his team...
How can anyone say this video doesn't make sense this video is spot on I'm tired of hearing he could be so much better well guess what he's not and this player is performing better and IMO is better because potential doesn't count for anything when it comes down to it
Hello Throrin. I luv ur rant 'n shit. But can you pls do like, an interview with new kids on the block? They are going to compete in LSC next year and what not.. I would like 2 hear their backstores.
the word potential makes sense. if a player has a huge potential he has a chance to be a great player in short term and you have less risk with him. if you take someone with 0 potential you know he will be shit and the risk is humungous likewise you would never contract him... so we can say that every young player that comes to the scene for his first time has a certain potential. i dont know if you agree
Potential in itself doesn't necessarily have to be a stupid concept. The difficulty is that it is intangible and you can hardly separate it from work, talent, ability to learn etc. I feel it's similar to inspiration. People don't get magically inspired by doing nothing and then suddenly write a novel. You sit down and write something and maybe one day it's good and the next day it's garbage. That difference can then be called a lack of inspiration, but can just as well be called something else, like lack of concentration or w/e. But within the language game, people understand what inspiration means even though it logically doesn't make sense or even exist. When you hear that word it connects all of these different concepts into a whole and saves time. Instead of having to go on a tirade about everything in your life affecting your inability to write well you summarize it into lack of inspiration. Potential is the same. "Oh, if this guy works hard for 5 months, creates a strict training plan, gets input from coaches then he will unlock his potential." One might ask: how exactly is that different from simply saying that if he works hard he will improve? What is this potential and all the other things Thorin mentioned. It doesn't in a strict logical sense have any meaning, but it refers to a concept formed within the human brain and other people understand what you mean. I agree that it probably has no place within the context of analysis, because it cannot be quantified. Then analysis would become endless guesswork and lose all purpose. Or maybe should only be used a side note. A personal opinion of the analyst that he has a hunch about this player's future. In this case it would not merit any value on it's own, but rather on the track record of the analyst. If he somehow correctly predicts different players getting better year after year even without providing clear arguments we have to start putting some value into his intuition.
I thought potential was usually used about players who hit a certain level of skills at an unusually low age. This makes sense, since these players usually will have more years to play competitively gaining experience and refining their play in a professional environment.
Thorin I think you are confusing Evolution with Genetic Mutation. A mutation has the potential to negatively impact an individual which could send an individual "backwards" as per your analogy. The process of evolution does not refer to an individual but to a species and this is always a "forwards" progression because of the logical nature of the process (the weak die, the strong survive).
Potential exists in a PHYSICAL form: Potential = Resources. I.E. if someone has more potential than someone else then that person has POTENTIAL to be better because the things they do with their resources WILL give more more and maybe BETTER outcomes. Potential exists in everything, it is just very hard to decipher what is potential and what is luck. What is luck? Luck is when you get the best possible outcome with the resources, even if you and your opposition have the same resource, if one does a-lot better then that IS luck. Otherwise if resources were not equal, then a potential difference exists and the better outcome is owned by the person with higher potential, even if it is slight. So how do you tell the difference? Very detailed and long scientific study, studying each and every trait of both individuals, testing and comparing them in every situation etc. TL;DR there is luck and there is potential in a physical form, you cannot literally tell the difference.
something else annoying when people say things like "in scrims he is good" is the community doesnt have access to those matches so we can't verify. like there are people that honestly believe kiwikid is a good player and you ask them, show me when kiwi played well and they cant do it. but when they say "oh in scrims ___" its like... ok.. i guess ill take your word for it?
This is ridiculous in sports potential is a real thing. There is a reason why nba drafts actually rate someones potential.. Wiggins has the potential to be a Carmelo or Kobe It does not mean they are at that caliber. Anthony Davis has the potential to be another Hakeem. Teams base a lot of their signings on potential chris anderson, had the potential to be good on the right team and now hes putting up decent numbers now.
i think this kind of thinking also sways to the problem of "overhyping" players,that when the scenario of them under performing develops into blind hatred of the community.
OK, here's my problem with this video. You essentially conclude by saying that some people with 'potential' just need to be given a certain amount of games to prove that their potential translate to actual skill. You aren't saying that potential is nonsense you are saying that baseless potential is nonsense, which isn't really the same thing. Ideas that are founded on hopes an wishes, as you say, often don't come to fruition simply because they have no real foundations. Potential itself can be measured, the opposite from what you say, based on how well a player performs over a shorter period of time. Unlike what you say, this isn't usually a baseless assumption. While potential isn't always a guaranteed basis for success, it is usually a logical conclusion drawn from a series of things that have already happened. Your NBA example where you talk about how the best teams draw from known information to pick their new players, this is still a person's judgement of the potential of that player for their team, its just that they've based it on more logical facts and reasoning to reach this conclusion. Anyway, to wrap up what I'm saying, what you are describing is not potential, but hopes that are nonsense. After all hopes are a baseless wishing for something that we know is unlikely to actually happen.
I think my favorite part of LCS is when C9 gets interviewed they always say stuff like "we get dumped in scrims; i have no idea how we're going to do this week, we've lost all our scrims" meanwhile they win 90% of their games. --- I really don't know why people care so much about scrim results. Sigh.
I'm not sure if I agree with Thorin for this. I'd prefer to think as potential as a HYPOTHETICAL level a player is predicted to make it to, by a certain point in time.
Dont go trashing on potential. I picked up a bunch of silver players in season 2 and told them they all had potential, I played as their support and shotcaller and by end of season 3 we were playing semipro here in Europe, we even beat some LCS teams (team turquality, dark passage, MYM, Reason Gaming, Denial). So don't you dare say potential is a joke
David Dolan Actually I recorded a whole VDoc reply to this video that i couldn't be bothered to post but you can check us out, we (well i retired now) go by the name Cloud Connected. I think there's a couple games on youtube. I think the one that Jason Kaplan casted where we got raped by the best UK team in the qualifier semi-final for the ESL BMC major (just youtube cloud connected vs OMG). You can also find us on ESL and facebook. Edit - Forgot to mention we got an offer from Team Orbit (the same one that's playing in CSGO right now) after our performance in the BMC qualifier, we turned it down though because we preferred our independence
You're a twit, he's not saying potential doesn't exist but it is an overused phrase. It is a complete joke because everyone thinks "if this went different" "If my teammates didn't suck" "if, if, if" that whole way of thinking is toxic and cancerous and the reason why the concept of potential is dumb. The correct way to say it is: "If you focus more time and effort into getting better...then you may improve" So you can keep thinking just because you had a corner case where you met a couple people that weren't boisterous asshats and actually wanted to get better, that doesn't make potential relevant. Potential is a hype word, it's a way where casters, managers and journalists can try to make something of nothing. It's like watching a blowout game, but as soon as someone gets a pick or a little advantage people freak out with "Oh they have the potential for a comeback if all of these magical christmasland situations happen" No one wants to say their team sucks, or a player sucks because the whole culture they try to push publicly is this giant E-sports circle jerk. No one is honest and no one can be honest.
CC Tenshi because if that were the case than it is not an e-sport or anything lucrative. No one wants to just sit around and watch someone play a game you can play yourself unless there's commentary and intrigue. And the easiest way to generate intrigue is with an opinion because in this horrible day and age we live in now, every idiot with a keyboard runs to Reddit to just post his/her opinion. Also goes back to what I said before about people having a complete lack of accountability so one can not simply watch and enjoy without proclaiming the injustices of solo queue, elo hell or lag.
the way i see it, the western world overuses the word potential, and the eastern world under uses it. i dont think anyone would disagree that skt t2 was the definition of a team with potential. whereas, i dont think any team in the west had potential other than possibly when cloud9 first came into the league. and also the confusing thing is the outcome of what people say a young player or a potential good team could achieve. when someone says, for example, bjergsen is the potential best mid laner in the world, that is unrealistic, especially without having constant competition against the other best midlaners in the world. also, something that takes away from even being able to use to word potential is the fact that everyone that is the best in the league isnt constantly facing each other. a good example for that is the MLB or even the NBA where people that want to play in that league come from other countries to play against the best in the world, which when you see all the best players playing all the time, its a better measure of a younger player's possibly to be good or just not make the cut. point im saying is that i dont think potential is complete bullshit, but i do think that it is in a league sense because its harder to gauge it, especially with active players only being at their peak for a short period of time. whereas, with other sports it can take a longer time to reach that potential. in that case, i think its still probably overused, because all fans get attached to their teams. everyone does it even people saying they are unbiased.
Thorin you are saying that it is impossible for anyone to tell if a player can be good on a team or in LCS. It feels like you just looked at 10 Reddit posts saying prolly > Faker and that is what you are basing this discussion off of. What it feels like you really mean is that the league of legends community is terrible at telling who is good, not if it is possible for someone to have potential and what it actually is. Also, most people don't want to talk about someone's potential to fail and it would feel redundant because everyone does. TL;DW: Idiots that don't analyze people's games and just talk about how good players are or could be don't actually know what they are talking about.
Well done Thorin, I'm honestly impressed by your analyses of e sport topics lately. However this video i immidiatly thaught potential is a real thing and that I should downvote this video (along with the other 10%). But you completly chanced my mind about potential with your explination and that potential is in fact bullshit. Great job
im a platinum player and i believe i have higher potential cause everytime i face diamond and master players in normal games i solo kill them in lane, i rather have potential than be a bronze player who will never get better cause he have no more potential. i started playing season 3 and i solo kill players who started playing in season 1. potential is not nonsense buddy.
The GGU expample does not aplies because they changed they mid laner. Jintae was a more utility based player so when they pick up shiptur the whole playstile of the team changed
Ok, I may just skip over Thoorin's next couple of videos. I think he's trying too hard to put out too many vid's that most (if not all) of them either have NO SUBSTANCE, or completely NONSENSE.
hey thorin. consider turning your comment section off. any meaningful discussion with regards to the video can be had on reddit and we all know how bad the youtube comment section has become.
Also your potential mockery in regards to koreans not using it literally defined cj for the past couple years now. Your problem is with people are terrible at appraising "potential". Potential is risk vs "safe" being a known quanitiy but both are risks always it is just to what degree. Also as someone who coaches people literally everyone that takes time and effort could make diamond with work, the skill cap there is much lower than you think. Once again normally a big fan so keep these up but this one reeks of being bitter about something and little work with terrible analogies and the most contrived and cherry picked contrarian points.
So aggressive, its like you're having ago at people lol. This isn't fun to watch. Your content is good, but the amount of contempt you have for people is too much. This contempt actually ruins your material.
Exactly, if a player is very very good in scrims and performs poorly in real games. That means he has potential ... potentiel is not nonsense, stop trying to sound smart. And how the fuck watches the whole thing? This guy makes like 30-40mins. I'm really curious to know who are watching the entire videos
this is pretty dumb. potential is real and measurable, but there is also development. if you follow any real sport you'd know this. the western scene just don't have the infrastructure to develop players.
i dont get what he is saying. I really dont. Look, if there is a guy who plays challenger. and then he joins the lcs and plays like a bronze 5 wizard, i would tell people that i know he has the potential to play better. Because i know he had done it and so he can do it again. simple as that.
Thooorin I think he is trying to say that if some soloq god joins lcs and plays horribly and is terrible compared to other pros he knows he has the potential to do better which is bullshit and not at all true because lcs =/= soloq
You're such a buzzkill, people like to speculate it's human nature... Fans love to theorize and think about potential, we do it all the time with champions and meta and often times it is correct. Just relax buddy your face was turning purple you need to breathe and start rethinking whats important to you, if this is seriously such a big fuss that you get all upset and make a youtube video about it.
dordin how can you say proteintial is nonsonse , im actually challenjour mechonically proteintial but stuck in bronze elo hell because trolls, but you wouldnt know that because you dont pray legend of leguer but instead trash talk like a toxin that you are, you should be banned from legend of leaguer scene, gg
Keepin' the flame alive! TecFLMR4LYFE
***** I want him to get ''stronger'', shits cash mang
Like the fedora jokes? :D
I feels ya
hey Thorin you have a great Potential to become a good journalist Kappa
You have great potential to become a heterosexual kappa
+Tony Coulibalol lol
Seriously, are you a cyborg Thooorin ? That amount of content you're sharing these days... WOW!
errrr, ye his videos are long, but his content is narrow, he is talking about one thing for 25 mins in every video, thats not a lot of content, thats indepth content
1 video a day with in depth content is a lot imo
well, its his job. its like saying "wow, you work 8 hours a day?" :p
? wait wait, i have a comment on your level: blue car
unable22 my comment was regarding the comment by sniperkitten971.
This is an excellent topic to elaborate upon. I love that you finally explained your thoughts on this. I've agreed for a while with a lot of your (and Monte's) analysis, but I couldn't exactly pinpoint the reason. This is it.
Hey thorin, you're quickly becoming not only my favorite esports personality but also my favorite youtuber. I get stoked when I see your videos in my sub box. I dont follow league, but I even enjoy these videos because of your in depth analysis on all subjects regarding esports. So heres a proper thank you mate! I appreciate all the content.
- a proper thank you
It would be extremely interesting and entertaining to have some video example in the background when you're explaining all of this Thoorin.
GGU didn't have shipthur in the split they got to the finals in, they swapped midlaners between those two splits.
Great video, I like how you tied in the fact that potential is kind of an emotional thing and has alot of biasy because the fact that when Cloud9 (Quantic Gaming) first qualified for the LCS, I heard maybe one or two people involved with the pro scene who said that Cloud9 would be a team to look out for, when all the other pros like doublelift said they would probably finish only top 4 or something like that, due to the current pros not being willing to admit that a new team can possibly beat all the best teams. Obviously what happened afterwards doesn't need any explanation.
God ,I love this guy thoorin is the best . Well thought arguments and food for thought making us smarter and being hilarious at the same time.
11:03
That hand drawing blew my mind.
The captain planet reference was spot on
On the topic of potential of Xpecial VS Bunny.
It's like asking a flower to improve as fast as a bud. We don't know how good Bunny can get, we do already know what type of player Xpecial is. Potential is overused, but Xpecial/Bunny example is a weird one.
I think the video would be better if you used some graphs/stats to back up your points. Around 9:00 for example, you could compare KDAs(or whatever you think works better) between different splits for certain players. This could be added even after the recording. You could just drop a slide over the video for a few seconds while the sound still goes on.
When can we expect a new episode of SI?
What about Arsene Wenger & Arsenal? They seem to have historically been a team that builds based on potential. Is this a valid counter-example?
No, that would be proving his point.
Thorin I liked the special vial speech I was expecting a snap of "Mikeal's Secret Stuff"
Thooorin Hey great vids, bro. Ive noticed that in a past summoning insight you mentioned your dislike for the west casters lack of analysis, could you make a video on the lack of analysis combined with the absence of critique of players :)
What if a first timer in the pro-scene (like someone who just sub into a big game) does amazing, doesn't that show he has "potential" if he gets more experience?
yes, this video is nonsense. Just because someone isnt there yet doesnt mean they wont be.
tG Gnar You didnt understand shit dude. What he said is that people always think that someone WILL improve and become SIGNIFICANTLY better. Most new players only improve a bit, think about Shiphtur ppl said hes gonna be the best blabla now 2 splits after he still is mid/low tier player.
so basically its an arguement of WHAT IF A compared to WHAT IF B.
If so then wouldn't it be better to assume the more reasonable outcome will occur? such as well this inexperienced newbie did pretty well therefore if he resolved his problem of inexperience he will likely improve as opposed to after curing this inexperience he will do worse.
You're my favorite LoL pundit. I like how you call it how it is and don't care about hurting anyone's feelings.
Also that scottish accent.
There is potential that thoorin might have a beard
GGU didn't keep the same line up. Officially they did however, Jintae played mid as a sub for nearly 100% of their split they came in #2.
i don't believe ranked determines the actual skill of a player you can be good in laner/jungler but not every player takes ranked seriously.
That is not what this video is about... At all...
i must be deaf he did say something about challenger players have insane skill.
But taking ranked seriously is a part of the climb, and more importantly, a part of being good.
no no no you understand theres trolls in diamond elo he said oh your on promos i'm going to afk he killed a gollems at red side then he sat there the whole game. Theres elo boosted players. The list goes on i hope riot hard reset ranked for the elo boosters, i was watching gripex stream yesterday and this guy was tilting according to gripex but the guy said he bought the account.
I dont believe that the only tool we have to measure skill actually measures skill. zzz go to sleep kid
Yo Thoorin whether youre wrong or right, these talks of yours are still always very interesting and insightful to hear from a different point of view in a person that doesnt play as much league as other people that talk about these topics, keep it up!am also a big clg fan if that changes anything
Think they made a movie about this, was it called Dollarball or something? :)
perhabs "potential" as a tangible thing exists if a person is still on a process of active learning, but not on top level where contestants are expected to be already touching their limits of how good they can get.
so then what was bjerg when he was in eu still
Potential for me just means raw material. Raw material is enhanced by the activities and structure you use alongside that material.
Doublelift once said that the Korean scene will always be 2 years behind the NA scene. This is the same argument that Xpecial will always be ahead of Bunny Fufu. If you ask why the Korean scene should have more upside than the NA scene, it's because it's got more material to work with e.g. the infrastructure and experience from starcraft. And true enough the Korean scene has caught up and more.
In the context of e-sports (and sports in general), people look at the combination of talents on a team and try to make an estimate on their minds of what they could achieve. This is a perfectly sound exercise. Miami for instance when Lebron and co. joined (colluded?) together they had a lot of potential. They still had to work through the setup of how to work together, how to make best use of all their raw talents. By applying specific arrangements and structure, they were able to realize their potential. When people look at CLG, people see the talent but wonder whether they can find the proper arrangements and be able to work together to produce results. Unfortunately they weren't able to do that. I don't really see why potential is nonsense in any context.
I love these posts. Thorin is absoultely immune to bullshit.
I think you kind of overlook one important aspect of 'Potential': It adds so much flavor and emotion to the enjoyment of the sport from a fans point of view.
Being a fan of player (especially being fan of a western player, because you know for a fact that there are at least 20 koreans who can play way better) would be only half the enjoyment it is if you could not make yourself believe that the guy you are a fan of could do this flashy play next time or make it to worlds with his team next split etc. Speaking of potential as a fan is speaking of hope. You hope, you want to believe that he can do better. So of course you will cherry-pick his best moments, those are the ones you will remember often, and draw your conclusions about his future from those moments.
Of course, as you said, if general managers acted this way, the team would be boned. Again, the crucial point is: We are fans, we are not managers. We want to believe, we want to hope, and essentially: We want to suffer, we want to be disappointed, just for this one guy out of six who makes the flashy plays in the playoffs and makes it to worlds with his team...
How can anyone say this video doesn't make sense this video is spot on I'm tired of hearing he could be so much better well guess what he's not and this player is performing better and IMO is better because potential doesn't count for anything when it comes down to it
Hello Throrin. I luv ur rant 'n shit. But can you pls do like, an interview with new kids on the block? They are going to compete in LSC next year and what not.. I would like 2 hear their backstores.
the word potential makes sense. if a player has a huge potential he has a chance to be a great player in short term and you have less risk with him. if you take someone with 0 potential you know he will be shit and the risk is humungous likewise you would never contract him... so we can say that every young player that comes to the scene for his first time has a certain potential.
i dont know if you agree
Martín Fdez. - Lasarte You're a moron.
Thank you
thats the point of this video, potential isn't something u can measure, u have no idea if that person has lots of it or none at all.
Thorin are you saying that, the talent makes the player not the practice and hard work?
Potential in itself doesn't necessarily have to be a stupid concept. The difficulty is that it is intangible and you can hardly separate it from work, talent, ability to learn etc.
I feel it's similar to inspiration. People don't get magically inspired by doing nothing and then suddenly write a novel. You sit down and write something and maybe one day it's good and the next day it's garbage. That difference can then be called a lack of inspiration, but can just as well be called something else, like lack of concentration or w/e. But within the language game, people understand what inspiration means even though it logically doesn't make sense or even exist. When you hear that word it connects all of these different concepts into a whole and saves time. Instead of having to go on a tirade about everything in your life affecting your inability to write well you summarize it into lack of inspiration.
Potential is the same. "Oh, if this guy works hard for 5 months, creates a strict training plan, gets input from coaches then he will unlock his potential." One might ask: how exactly is that different from simply saying that if he works hard he will improve? What is this potential and all the other things Thorin mentioned. It doesn't in a strict logical sense have any meaning, but it refers to a concept formed within the human brain and other people understand what you mean.
I agree that it probably has no place within the context of analysis, because it cannot be quantified. Then analysis would become endless guesswork and lose all purpose.
Or maybe should only be used a side note. A personal opinion of the analyst that he has a hunch about this player's future. In this case it would not merit any value on it's own, but rather on the track record of the analyst. If he somehow correctly predicts different players getting better year after year even without providing clear arguments we have to start putting some value into his intuition.
Finally a video about Jesiz,Kerp and Link and all their potential #Sarcasm
I thought potential was usually used about players who hit a certain level of skills at an unusually low age. This makes sense, since these players usually will have more years to play competitively gaining experience and refining their play in a professional environment.
Thorin I think you are confusing Evolution with Genetic Mutation. A mutation has the potential to negatively impact an individual which could send an individual "backwards" as per your analogy. The process of evolution does not refer to an individual but to a species and this is always a "forwards" progression because of the logical nature of the process (the weak die, the strong survive).
Do you think CLG would be better whithout Link?
How can I answer that if I don't know who is replacing him?
4vs5 legit
Thooorin
I don´t know for example mancloud, he had a really good synergy with xmithie in 2013
Well look at CLG now.
Zo Senjack KAPPA
Potential exists in a PHYSICAL form:
Potential = Resources.
I.E. if someone has more potential than someone else then that person has POTENTIAL to be better because the things they do with their resources WILL give more more and maybe BETTER outcomes.
Potential exists in everything, it is just very hard to decipher what is potential and what is luck.
What is luck?
Luck is when you get the best possible outcome with the resources, even if you and your opposition have the same resource, if one does a-lot better then that IS luck. Otherwise if resources were not equal, then a potential difference exists and the better outcome is owned by the person with higher potential, even if it is slight.
So how do you tell the difference?
Very detailed and long scientific study, studying each and every trait of both individuals, testing and comparing them in every situation etc.
TL;DR there is luck and there is potential in a physical form, you cannot literally tell the difference.
How about PaWn's season 3 to season 4 improvement? LOL
something else annoying when people say things like "in scrims he is good" is the community doesnt have access to those matches so we can't verify. like there are people that honestly believe kiwikid is a good player and you ask them, show me when kiwi played well and they cant do it. but when they say "oh in scrims ___" its like... ok.. i guess ill take your word for it?
I'm so fucking high right now, you blew my mind with the potential thing
This is ridiculous in sports potential is a real thing. There is a reason why nba drafts actually rate someones potential.. Wiggins has the potential to be a Carmelo or Kobe It does not mean they are at that caliber. Anthony Davis has the potential to be another Hakeem. Teams base a lot of their signings on potential chris anderson, had the potential to be good on the right team and now hes putting up decent numbers now.
i think this kind of thinking also sways to the problem of "overhyping" players,that when the scenario of them under performing develops into blind hatred of the community.
Awesome video thooorin, keep up the great work!
really enjoing your viedeos, thanks man
I agree on many things you say but also disagree on a lot. I like the way you presents the arguments, very analytical... I like watching these videos
OK, here's my problem with this video. You essentially conclude by saying that some people with 'potential' just need to be given a certain amount of games to prove that their potential translate to actual skill. You aren't saying that potential is nonsense you are saying that baseless potential is nonsense, which isn't really the same thing. Ideas that are founded on hopes an wishes, as you say, often don't come to fruition simply because they have no real foundations.
Potential itself can be measured, the opposite from what you say, based on how well a player performs over a shorter period of time. Unlike what you say, this isn't usually a baseless assumption. While potential isn't always a guaranteed basis for success, it is usually a logical conclusion drawn from a series of things that have already happened. Your NBA example where you talk about how the best teams draw from known information to pick their new players, this is still a person's judgement of the potential of that player for their team, its just that they've based it on more logical facts and reasoning to reach this conclusion.
Anyway, to wrap up what I'm saying, what you are describing is not potential, but hopes that are nonsense. After all hopes are a baseless wishing for something that we know is unlikely to actually happen.
I think my favorite part of LCS is when C9 gets interviewed they always say stuff like "we get dumped in scrims; i have no idea how we're going to do this week, we've lost all our scrims" meanwhile they win 90% of their games. --- I really don't know why people care so much about scrim results. Sigh.
I'm not sure if I agree with Thorin for this.
I'd prefer to think as potential as a HYPOTHETICAL level a player is predicted to make it to, by a certain point in time.
you meant probably that potential is a good excuse for a mental block or something similar .... maybe ? XD
Dont go trashing on potential. I picked up a bunch of silver players in season 2 and told them they all had potential, I played as their support and shotcaller and by end of season 3 we were playing semipro here in Europe, we even beat some LCS teams (team turquality, dark passage, MYM, Reason Gaming, Denial).
So don't you dare say potential is a joke
That sounds like bullshit
David Dolan
Actually I recorded a whole VDoc reply to this video that i couldn't be bothered to post but you can check us out, we (well i retired now) go by the name Cloud Connected. I think there's a couple games on youtube. I think the one that Jason Kaplan casted where we got raped by the best UK team in the qualifier semi-final for the ESL BMC major (just youtube cloud connected vs OMG). You can also find us on ESL and facebook.
Edit - Forgot to mention we got an offer from Team Orbit (the same one that's playing in CSGO right now) after our performance in the BMC qualifier, we turned it down though because we preferred our independence
You're a twit, he's not saying potential doesn't exist but it is an overused phrase. It is a complete joke because everyone thinks "if this went different" "If my teammates didn't suck" "if, if, if" that whole way of thinking is toxic and cancerous and the reason why the concept of potential is dumb. The correct way to say it is: "If you focus more time and effort into getting better...then you may improve"
So you can keep thinking just because you had a corner case where you met a couple people that weren't boisterous asshats and actually wanted to get better, that doesn't make potential relevant.
Potential is a hype word, it's a way where casters, managers and journalists can try to make something of nothing. It's like watching a blowout game, but as soon as someone gets a pick or a little advantage people freak out with "Oh they have the potential for a comeback if all of these magical christmasland situations happen" No one wants to say their team sucks, or a player sucks because the whole culture they try to push publicly is this giant E-sports circle jerk. No one is honest and no one can be honest.
Andrew Balaz
tbh why cant people just watch the fucking games and enjoy the play
CC Tenshi because if that were the case than it is not an e-sport or anything lucrative. No one wants to just sit around and watch someone play a game you can play yourself unless there's commentary and intrigue. And the easiest way to generate intrigue is with an opinion because in this horrible day and age we live in now, every idiot with a keyboard runs to Reddit to just post his/her opinion.
Also goes back to what I said before about people having a complete lack of accountability so one can not simply watch and enjoy without proclaiming the injustices of solo queue, elo hell or lag.
the way i see it, the western world overuses the word potential, and the eastern world under uses it. i dont think anyone would disagree that skt t2 was the definition of a team with potential. whereas, i dont think any team in the west had potential other than possibly when cloud9 first came into the league.
and also the confusing thing is the outcome of what people say a young player or a potential good team could achieve. when someone says, for example, bjergsen is the potential best mid laner in the world, that is unrealistic, especially without having constant competition against the other best midlaners in the world. also, something that takes away from even being able to use to word potential is the fact that everyone that is the best in the league isnt constantly facing each other. a good example for that is the MLB or even the NBA where people that want to play in that league come from other countries to play against the best in the world, which when you see all the best players playing all the time, its a better measure of a younger player's possibly to be good or just not make the cut.
point im saying is that i dont think potential is complete bullshit, but i do think that it is in a league sense because its harder to gauge it, especially with active players only being at their peak for a short period of time. whereas, with other sports it can take a longer time to reach that potential. in that case, i think its still probably overused, because all fans get attached to their teams. everyone does it even people saying they are unbiased.
Really really enjoying all these videos
i think potential is a thing and every player has it but the league community underestimates how hard it is to unlock it.
The problem with this video is that there is potential in everything.
Thorin you are saying that it is impossible for anyone to tell if a player can be good on a team or in LCS. It feels like you just looked at 10 Reddit posts saying prolly > Faker and that is what you are basing this discussion off of. What it feels like you really mean is that the league of legends community is terrible at telling who is good, not if it is possible for someone to have potential and what it actually is.
Also, most people don't want to talk about someone's potential to fail and it would feel redundant because everyone does.
TL;DW: Idiots that don't analyze people's games and just talk about how good players are or could be don't actually know what they are talking about.
Well done Thorin, I'm honestly impressed by your analyses of e sport topics lately. However this video i immidiatly thaught potential is a real thing and that I should downvote this video (along with the other 10%). But you completly chanced my mind about potential with your explination and that potential is in fact bullshit. Great job
im a platinum player and i believe i have higher potential cause everytime i face diamond and master players in normal games i solo kill them in lane, i rather have potential than be a bronze player who will never get better cause he have no more potential. i started playing season 3 and i solo kill players who started playing in season 1. potential is not nonsense buddy.
No coat???
Nice job again Thoorin, keep it up.
someone's been watching star wars recently :> another good video thorin
11:02 NYPH!:)
The GGU expample does not aplies because they changed they mid laner. Jintae was a more utility based player so when they pick up shiptur the whole playstile of the team changed
Jabari Parker is 10x the player Wiggins is right now, but Wiggins has the "potential" to be a top 5 player in 3 or 4 years.
great stuff as usual thorin.
I know my team got Potential its just that i need to replace 3-4 players so we can finally make it into LCS gg
I...I agree with quite a few things for the first time thorin.
How long have you been doing these videos? o.O ... they are fckin awesome :D. Hope someone listen to you!
Lmfao. I love you sometimes, Thorin.
Ok, I may just skip over Thoorin's next couple of videos. I think he's trying too hard to put out too many vid's that most (if not all) of them either have NO SUBSTANCE, or completely NONSENSE.
So in short...
Potential does exist, most people in the league of legends' scene are not good at recognizing it.
Velocity has so much potential O.o
hey thorin. consider turning your comment section off. any meaningful discussion with regards to the video can be had on reddit and we all know how bad the youtube comment section has become.
Normally a fan of these but this is so full of hyperbole, bad arguments and cherry picked stupid statements from the most ignorant fans.
Also your potential mockery in regards to koreans not using it literally defined cj for the past couple years now. Your problem is with people are terrible at appraising "potential". Potential is risk vs "safe" being a known quanitiy but both are risks always it is just to what degree.
Also as someone who coaches people literally everyone that takes time and effort could make diamond with work, the skill cap there is much lower than you think.
Once again normally a big fan so keep these up but this one reeks of being bitter about something and little work with terrible analogies and the most contrived and cherry picked contrarian points.
And this is why I am a C9 fan.
Hey Thorin I love all your work.
If you ever come to Florida HMU I got all the free acid you can eat!
I call in 21 years all of the current TSM lineup will have retired
Thoorin is over-simplifying a very complex competitive dynamic...
great video but i recommend a pop filter please!
thorin kinda looks like a young bryan cranston lol
But...But.... CLG's Potential is over 9000.
But my dreams :'(
Put Doublelift in TSM
+Christian Loubs you got your wish
WTF this game now has philosophy discussions? Shits cray
So aggressive, its like you're having ago at people lol.
This isn't fun to watch.
Your content is good, but the amount of contempt you have for people is too much.
This contempt actually ruins your material.
Does Thorin still live with his mom?
Exactly, if a player is very very good in scrims and performs poorly in real games.
That means he has potential ... potentiel is not nonsense, stop trying to sound smart. And how the fuck watches the whole thing? This guy makes like 30-40mins. I'm really curious to know who are watching the entire videos
this is pretty dumb. potential is real and measurable, but there is also development. if you follow any real sport you'd know this. the western scene just don't have the infrastructure to develop players.
LMFAO! Thank you.
damn Thorin sure does have an itchy nose haha
i dont get what he is saying. I really dont.
Look, if there is a guy who plays challenger. and then he joins the lcs and plays like a bronze 5 wizard, i would tell people that i know he has the potential to play better. Because i know he had done it and so he can do it again. simple as that.
English only, please.
Sorry, that´s the best English i have for you..
Thooorin I think he is trying to say that if some soloq god joins lcs and plays horribly and is terrible compared to other pros he knows he has the potential to do better which is bullshit and not at all true because lcs =/= soloq
***** Your English is fine, your point isn't.
***** lol nice try...
Thorin think he knows what hes talking about. Just rambling
his nose must be hella itchy
yay xpecial
You're such a buzzkill, people like to speculate it's human nature... Fans love to theorize and think about potential, we do it all the time with champions and meta and often times it is correct. Just relax buddy your face was turning purple you need to breathe and start rethinking whats important to you, if this is seriously such a big fuss that you get all upset and make a youtube video about it.
Careful Thorin, or you'll use up all your vials of content creation at this rate.
spam 1
np
op op op op op
he looks so young and skinny lol