Zenith The Last City is the best we have of this genre at the moment, it's basically an MMORPG with elements of Breath of the Wild, Pokémon and Minecraft in a single game, you can join guilds, have a house, have a pet, if join or interact with friends to go in dungeons and do quests and the game is constantly evolving gaining more content with each new update, supporting new VR features like treadmil and basically it is available in all current VR headsets (PSVR, PSVR 2, PCVR , Quest and Quest 2 ) with crossplay between all platforms, which is great for an MMO as it means more people can play and makes the servers busier with more people to socialize with. This game is pretty awesome and tries to do something that no other VR game has managed to do so far, I really think it deserves a lot more recognition, it's a shame there isn't as much marketing around it.
Zenith had more than 2000 concurrent players on steam at launch (there isn’t any other vr game on steam that reaches this number daily except for vrchat) there probably were much more on other platforms, this shows that people really want vrmmos. The problem is that people expect some huge world with all kinds of thing to do, which zenith couldn’t deliver since they don’t have the capability and resources to do so
I'm literally working on a VR MMO but it's looking like it'll go down the same road as Zenith, great start and lack of funds. I'm pivoting it into a multiplayer dungeon crawler instead. similar to Diablo and Solo Leveling, but without a massive community almost every MMO dies, you need a huge cashflow to keep games like that alive. So it makes sense to me to just make a big multiplayer game, and if the game grows I'll continue working on the MMO version. Making VR MMOs is just really hard, and indies seem to be the only ones willing to make that attempt rn
That sounds like it will be a amazing game, really just sucks that it has to be small developers always get stuck making these and they cant get good funds, Like if these companies dont want to make good games at least they should be supporting people like you who are actually putting in the work and making stuff that people actually want. Keep up the great work and im sure your game will be at least decently popular just because of the amazing idea.
@@capolean2902 melee combat while using abilities you learn from monsters you kill, I'm trying to make it feel like a hack n slash and souls like at the same time.
Finally someone understands what we want ,we want a big mmo game that will satisfy us instead of making nonsense ,they need to put all their focus and money on a mmo game thank you for making this video for having a speaker that understand us thank you
These headsets are glorified beta tests. The entire process began as a headset improvement and then haptic improvement. Next is full body feedback and wide angle screen models in 4k. Give it a couple years and they will implement the anime ideal of vr experience.
Wouldn't mind playing a fantasy game setting. Especially where AI characters literally talk to you. With their own personality like that one anime. Where the guy got the best friend killer title. And his sister that was supposed to marry him. Wanted to kill the protag. 😂 We need a game like that. Lol.
I think there's a few things we can look at regarding why we're in this situation: 1 - MMORPGs in general have fallen off in the era of instant gratification and short attention spans. It's a risky endeavor to make an MMORPG because of it. 2 - VR has only recently gotten more affordable and still has a comparatively small playerbase when compared to mobile/console/PC 2a - This also means that any MMO that has started when VR became affordable is still 3-4 years down the line from today. 3 - No one knows how to properly translate RPG combat into a VR setting yet 4 - MMOs are expensive to develop, VR is expensive to develop. The effect is multiplicative 5 - Mobile games are way too profitable to be worth developing anything else from a profit standpoint 5a - This is why any of the few MMORPGs being developed all come from small studios or as passion projects, both VR and otherwise (Zenith, Ilysia, Ashes of Creation, etc) Overall a cute rant video, would've like to maybe see a further dig how the existing VR MMO titles are doing (your opinion after playing them), why they're not fulfilling the desire for a VR MMO you talked about and so on. Keep it up!
I generally agree with your points. I'd like to comment on point 3: I'm not sure these systems be translated into VR. VR and pancake games have fundamentally different game design with their own unique challenges. Popular pancake game design often just sucks in VR, compared to games that are designed for VR from the ground up.
I whole heartedly disagree on the instant gratification aspect. This is a symptom of a problem invented by shitty game design. If your crappy game demands time investment, then no one will play it. If your game is actually good, no time investment is too much. People have played WoW for 20 years faithfully. FFXIV is going to be another 20+ year run game as well. Their secret? STOP INSULTING PEOPLES INTELLIGENCE WITH UNINSPIRED AND LIFELESS GAMING EXPERIENCES. The more you love and care for the world you build, the more we will stay and pay for it. Attitudes towards VR are like people have learned nothing from 50+ years of good game design.
Look at Eldenring, most of it playerbase are younger people who never played a souls game or rpg and yet still they easily spent over 100 hours in a single playthourgh. It's all about game desgin and not the genre. The reason why MMORPG's fell of is that we didn't got anything new in over 20 Years. Legit I've tried over 20 MMORPG's and dropped them all because they just felt like WOW with a skin. Gameplay the same "start fast, end slow". This Genre is to old for something new and my biggest hope is the Riot MMO to save us from the course of wow. Maybe there game will get a VR port once its done
you say Vrmmos have fallen off in the era of instant gratification. How are you going to base that? where is your evidence? ive seen hundreds of videos with thousands of comments on people wanting exactly what you say was killed in this "era of instant gratification". While yes a lot of younger people scroll endlessly on their phones and don't have the patience for something like that, you still have millions of people who've been wanting this since vr released and are still currently waiting. That's my take on it, however your take on no one knowing how to convert rpg combat into vr makes a lot of sense and I can honestly agree because yea it is hard, people would likely have to buy full body tracking for something even remotely similar, I think blade and sorcery did a pretty okay job when it comes to full body, being able to kick and jump around, while using upper body for spells and the main fighting. I also agree that VR is expensive to develop as well as a VRMMORPG, However in my opinion VR has already come a lot way. Do we really need more VR? When it comes to standalone vr headsets or even pcvr, there will always be room for growth yes, but why not focus your money on what your consumers want? Why spend 10's of billions of dollars on another headset that's going to do the exact same thing as its predecessor? When you could put all of your attention into something your consumers have been wanting since way before you bought out the company yk? my main example of the waisting money on a vr that does the same thing with minor upgrades if any at all is the quest 3s, literally makes no sense its just cheaper. If they had stopped at the quest 3 and focused on pcvr and a really good MMO working with other big game companies, we could have had a really good VRMMO game within the next few years. Instead they waist money on the same headset with a different look. I respect your opinion and a lot of what you said makes sense it really does, especially with how expensive its going to be and the conversion of the combat to vr, but with all of those smart game developer heads I know that its possible if we really tried. The era of a VRMMORPG is not dead yet it just needs a little spark to reignite the fire.
Sword Islands by "Void Reality Labs" is an amazing game in the works, I reccomend at least watching his devlogs, He built the game from the ground up, a single developer and the game honestly looks cleaner than any Mmo ive seen enter the vr world!
@@billyroche5007 It's a Cooperative MMO (4 player servers) you can play by yourself or with friends, it's Kickstarter is opening within this week, I believe it also has RPG aspects to it as well
They're actually a few vrmmo is right now they're just all in early development stages and people don't expect much out of them. Zenith, Ilysia, and oath-breakers are just a few. I cover all of them on my channel.
Just to let you know the graph shown by Zenith in the video is like the graph for every other video game out there but as an actuall regular player I can tell you the game is not dead in fact we just got a new update wit a worldboss to fight and also the funding for that game is fine they had a kickstarter for 250k and private investors giving 10m and 25m so they are sitting on a budget of 35M Another point is that Zenith is avaliable on Quest2 standalone, Oculus PC, SteamVR, PSVR2 therfore the steam graph only reflects the players logging in from steam There is also another VRMMO called Orbus but sadly that one is in maintenance mode The third vrmmo that is on the horizon is called Ilysia (allthough the beta didnt looked that promising when I played it)
This didn’t age well 😂 Zenith’s problem was they refused to add any kind of micro transactions. They were a live service game where the only income was at time of purchase 💀 Without a way of generating regular income they were destined to fail That, plus they released it far too early They released the game without 90% of the features and mechanics you would expect in an MMO Shops Trading Crafting Harvesting Skill trees Etc So essentially they released a tech demo… with significant costs and minimal income
Dungeons of Eternity is a step in that direction... they just need to add more objectives/quests and the ability to run around in a open world where people come and go.
My main gripe is lack of match making. There should be filters for level range and dungeon type, so folks without a regular party can get to what they need to be getting to. Great game though.
@@richpeltier9519 Mine is the fact I can't play the damned thing because it's Quest exclusive. I've heard sooo much about it that I'd be interested in but as a Valve Index user, I'm not buying another multi-hundred dollar headset for a single game, you know?
@@StygianIkazuchi Quest 2 is only $200, but I get it. Don't do it for the single game tho, Quest game library rivals Steam. The stuff I like to run on it native, is stuff that's good for in the world use. Break time at work with a Quest is a big quality of life enhancement I wish I'd jumped on sooner. Makes 13 hours shifts less stressful.
I would disagree with zenith dying. Since it came out, it has had a lot of updates and is doing pretty well. Graphics arent the best but its a huge game and really the only one of its kind currently out. Instead of saying its dying, we should all be supporting it. By having a lot of people playing it, it will show other companies that theres something major there. Building it up should be the goal so we can get some competition in that space for more games like it.
They have been running at a loss for 12 months now, if they don't get some more players with the new update 2.0 coming it is going to be put down like a dog. I hope it does okay though as i tried Ilysia already and well that is like an Alpha sold as Early Access and won't be good for awhile but the base is there. I just re-read the article and here is what it says The studio admitted that it’s been running Zenith “at a loss on a month-to-month basis for the better part of a year,” so this update is a clear attempt at a hail Mary play. “Ultimately, we had to make a choice between making fundamental changes or putting the game on ice. We made these decisions so that we could keep running Zenith for as long as possible,” the studio said.
@@Dhibbsey obviously I support what they are doing, and I would love a big company to make an MMORPG in VR but the dev themselves publicly announced that they won’t be doing any more updates because they’re finances are running low. It’s really hard to keep a game like that running.
With mixed reality I think Warhammer and 40K should be jumping on this like crazy. Being able to play that game with buddies all over the world on virtual table tops would freaking rule.
Theres a game that ive been supporting for the past few years, its known as ilysia. Its essentially WoW in VR, its not doing too well right now, but with the right budget they could make a really good mmo, so you should definitely check it out
I think the issue with the big players is that they only want quick profits, anything that can get them quick cash, so I don't expect any big boys to make any mmos for vr.
That game has been ripped to bits. Verdict is terrible from what I've seen of it. Big dreams but not enough vision or technical ability of that company. 1998 wants it's graphics back.
I want a VRMMO so badly... But damn, so much shade thrown at Walkabout Mini Golf. Those devs don't deserve that... Honestly one of the better VR games out there right now.
good video, I agree with most points, but we do have VRMMOS like Zenith, Orbus, Ilysia, Township come to mind, the problem is that VR is still niche and growing. It's not even close to being mainstream in the same regard as consoles and PC.
100% spot on!! Finally, someone verbalizing what I’ve been thinking for a long time!! I love your direct and articulate style, so thanks for making this video! You’ve definitely earned a subscriber.
ive been rewatching sao and it just continues to make me wish we had those games in real vr. id love to have ALO in vr being able to fly around with my friends and fight awesome bosses, doing quests that take hours because theyre so complicated and story driven, have different races that have special abilities and uses, and GGO as well hunting giant monsters with a gun?? yes please! but i honestly think those games wont be out for another few years possibly longer because how big the games would have to be. but i dont even think theyre even being thought about by vr game creators
I want a VRMMO with multiple character slots. You know, find hidden classes by doing quests, easter eggs, pvps, achivements ect, and then create another slot and use that class. VRMMO would be golden
Thank you for saying this. This is exactly how i feel, i have bought 2 headsets now, and a good pc, and the best i can get is skyrim with mods, for VR.
Ur dead on. It’s like the production team is too scared to speak up or the project leaders are too headstrong to listen. It’s very odd that SAO wasn’t the first thought one their minds or , like u said, .hack….or Ready player one…. or even the freakin Matrix. (Team leader: “nah…let’s make sleep simulator!!”)
Hi, I usually don't write any comments at all, but there is one thing to be said... you are damn right. I literally got to a point where I would pay 100 or even 130 $ to get a SAO or Yggdrasil (the game in the anime "overlord"), and it's hilarious that nobody realises how much potential these types of games have. I would even claim that the companies could sell the games for 100 $ each and it would be a bestseller😂😂 Anyway thanks for making this video🙏 even dough I don't think that this matters to the big companies😢
in direction of vr games there will probably bever be a big company who will bring out an VR AAA game because of the lack of money it would bring in. i think the main problem is that vr glasses are still way to expensive to make profitable games with it and don't forget not everyone can play them do of loco motion sickness but i still hope that it will change soon i'm too waiting for the perfekt vr mmo world to dive in for hours and hours like SAO
The moment someone brings the combat of blade and sorcery or swordsman vr and mixes it with the social capability of VR chat is when things will start to take shape but if we truly want to recreate our VR MMO fantasies we would need to do the same thing the Devs of those fictional VR MMOs did and that's not only make these things fun to play but also a experience people would want to live in go watch ready player one go rewatch SAO or literally any of the examples you pointed out you could do quite literally anything you could do in reality there was basically no difference except for some floating screens occasionally and maybe a health bar in order to actually create these things the digital world's in these MMOs would have to be absurdly complex and interactable so much so it would make Zuckerberg's metaverse vision look restrictive hell buy a house drink some digital booze at the nearby Tavern pick up a rock and throw it at a Gobin dig a hole when you're sneaking up on some monsters complain about how the grass is fucking wet while you're crawling that's just stupid shit that comes off the top of my head but you get my point we haven't got VR MMO technology at least not the type they had in those fictional stories we have a headset that allows us to be able to see the same way they would be able to see but we can't touch we can't feel we can't interact and more importantly there is no incentive to actually do these things
I found your video coincidentally, and it's amazing you mentioned Final Fantasy and VRMMO. I am game developer creating a Fantasy VRMMORPG right now and I agree with you. In hopes that you could do a review on my VRMMO some time, I wouldn't mind!
I bought myself an oculus quest 2 about 2 years ago, it was fun at 1st since i never experienced vr att, unfortunately i barely touch it these days cuz it got boring each day passed by , I just hope we'll have a SAO game sooner or later imma wait for one even if its 10y from now
Zenith, Orbus, Ilysia, township tale... And thats just the actual MMOs, because then you have public multiplayer games that give the same feel such as dungeons of eternity...
Zenith: Nexus is a great VRMMO with a free gamemode which shows a sample of the original open-world game (the last city). The Last City, also known as TLC is known to have many features such as creature orbs to catch and summon pets, crafting equipment, quests, boss raids, travelling, and more! Zenith is a great game overall, and is also a VRMMO. I suggest you try it out!
You are TOTALLY right! They made us all want a VR MMO with all of these animes and movies and now that we have the hardware there is NO equivalent. If there was an ESO or Final Fantasy XIV VR MMO we'd all gladly pay the price to purchase and a monthly subscirption! All of this content in VR would be amazing! I'd never leave! I've tried the VR Mod for FFXIV and it's great but not perfect and the only vr experience for ESO is vorpx which sort of sucks and virtual desktop. I AM DYING for a VR MMO! I've been holding off on trying Zenith because it doesn't look as in depth of an mmo as I want and the graphics look like a kids game.
"Graphics look like a kids game" Yet you want the same style of games you see in various VRMMO Anime? You're going to have a hard time finding a good VRMMO then, because the best out there currently all have that cartoony/bubbly look. Zenith is very in-depth for what we've seen in terms of VRMMO's so far. The game's got a good budget and isn't dead, and there's tons of content for it. Trust me, set aside your graphics preferences and give it a go. Worst case you refund after 1hr30min and never touch it again. Best case, you find a VRMMO you enjoy and can spend time with
As someone coming back to VR since the beginning (Google Cardboard). The change has been huge. The costs for GOOD VR has come down. Quest 2 is now $199 making it possibly the cheapest console out. The big franchises are coming. Storage capacity has also been an issue. Most MMOs are rather large and would have to fight for space. I know this is not an issue for PCVR but the cost for that type of set up is much higher. This is the year for AA games on VR and I would be surprised if a big MMO doesn’t come out. Also look at the market for MMOs. They still tend to dominate in Asia. For the average gamer VR is still seen as something to play around with if you have money. But I guarantee this holiday season. Meta has the chance to make it go mainstream. The MMOs will come.
Bros the time is coming where we will see full dive in this time not just that but augmented reality and mixed reality and holograms and better artificial intelligence just wait
i wish i just could pull up a team right now and start developing a game like this anyone wants a game like sao people just need trainning to learn how to develope games thats all we need
There was also OrbusVR which i'm not sure what happened with that but it seemed very cool despite it's horrible graphics, but i agree with you i fully want Final Fantasy in VR, i want to be able to run around as a Viera bard with hundreds of other people in a beautiful almost open world
Meta shouldve invested their 10 bilion into creating giant super AAAA games each in different genres such as mmorpgs, fps etc. Really Great game -> more people buy VR More people on VR -> More money earned More money earned -> More great games Cycles repeats until VR replaces PC and Console gaming
So I just got through watching the anime Shangri-La frontier and I have no skills in game development. Does anyone have any ideas on how I can get started developing a VR game?
I understand why the big companies are investing on "VR meeting rooms". I can see the appeal. Having the flexibility to work from anywhere, with tools that would enhance the regular real life work sounds great. However what these companies can't see to understand is that the current VR technology is not ready for this yet. Who would want to work 8 hours a day wearing a heavy VR device with poor visibility? It just doesn't make sense. So VR is not ready yet as a work enhancement tool. BUT VR is in a great state for gaming. These companies should invest heavily in gaming as you said, so the young generation from today will be used to the tech and much open to use it for everything in the future. MMORPG is just the PERFECT genre to make people used to the VR tech. Having a good MMO with tons of social features, will make people coming to play it everyday. People who will get used of going on adventures with their buddies in VR will be completely open to having meetings in VR in the future (once the tech is more comfortable of course). It baffles me how we still don't have a good MMORPG in VR to this day.
The main reason is two fold, vary small market demographic (budget vs return on investment, you want the largest possible audiance). Vast majority of console players dont own a PSVR, vast majority of PC gamers dont own a VR headset, atleast not currently. The second problem is the limited control schemes with little to no standardization in the market.
We can literally make a full functional vr suit like Ready player one movie, and make a fully functional top tier vr mmorpg like sword art online, but no one is doing it, it’s not bout capability anymore because we’re capable but no one is doing it for some reason
I really thank you for this video. I want the meta devs to see this. Ik where prob never going to get full dive. But vrmmo will literally be the best thing to me, or a irl aguma. Meta needs to setup their game. So does Sony.
Well yea a vr mmo would be great. I think we're getting there but 1. A vr mmo cost a lot of money and investment. So how do you get the players and engagement. Do you make it free to play or do you pay for it. If it is free to play how do you make money then? 2. While VRchat is the biggest vr game. You'll nitice everyone does the same thing and its just a place to hangout and chill with people. A vr mmo imo has quest and side quest and grinding but many people just dont want to do that in vr. 3. Vr has a retention problem. Sone people like me dont have motion sickness so we can be in vr for days and be fine. But other even with comfort settings cant. Especially putting something on your fac, then making sure your controllers are synced, then doing your playspace over and over again. Some people dont want to do that. I think were getting to a place where thats easier like with the quest 3 that automatically does it for you and with AI improving I think that'll become faster. I dont know if were at a place where as you said "everyone" wants a vr mmo. Sone people might just want something casual or just dont really have the time. I think we're getting there but I just dont know anyone would want to invest into that right now. We are getting "AAA" game. Things like Assassins creed nexus and asgards wrath 2 are good starts. I do think in the next few years as vr grows we could see a vr mmo but I wouldnt expect that till like 2027-29
I totally agree, but mainly because I'm so jaded from Ilysia and Zenith not having any cool beast races like Burmecians from Final Fantasy 9 or demon foxes, and only Ilysia *_MAYBE_* has thought of including velocity-based damage where the harder you swing your controller the more damage you can do to monsters and trees? You know, something that can ONLY be experienced in VR but none of these souless, foolish, companies have realized that would be a good idea yet. But you can't be who or whatever you want to be in those games like you can with VRChat, so... guess I'll have to learn to program a VR MMO myself and make the game in 10 years from now if I ever want to see a VR MMO who cares about velocity based damage and custom avatars, digging and building base-defense and salvaging ruins.
I know I'm a little late this is just something i wanna throw out there for anyone who comes across it. In my opinion the best VR game out there is SkyrimVR. (Obviously not the base game) But with mods. SkyrimVR is an incredible experience beyond any other VR game on the market. However you need a pretty high end pc to run it with the amount of mods to make it amazing. If someone where to make a stable multiplayer mod for SkyrimVR and market it properly it would be GAME CHANGING. We would get that amazing vrmmo that we all want, and not only that it would be a learning experience for anyone to take notes on how a VRMMO should be. But for some reason, nobody has decided to make such a mod.
I think someone who watches animes like overlord or any manga/manhwa about vr mmo has to make nice quality mmo demo with smooth combat and immersive ideas and big companies after seeing how people want this they will probably make one Nice video btw
the fact is that the current MMORPGs need VR put in there game as a feature but right now you have to use mods/add-ons just to have it an its a lot of work to set up and does not work so well because of the little things like not being able to adjust combat effects an well it plays like your on rails in a VR world just enough to make you want more. witch honestly is why they are really slow to act on it we are just now starting to get VR headsets that are good enough like the quest 3 and the varjo Aero that really show what VR can be. that means most people unless rocking a 4080 or 4070 around about can not in joy what VR is all about an the fact is the gaming industry hasn't moved that fast since before the 1080. talking about games coming out for the new hardware it used to be a thing where very new games would come out able to take advantage of the new hardware but now days every game more or less recommends a 1060 to 1080 why because that really is all the power needed to run modern games good if not efficiently. this means most people have old if not really old hardware all the way back to 1080 witch is around May 27th, 2016. with VR being the really only thing people need a high end pc for now days means most people don't have one that high end anymore so in short who is going to play it on mass no one that is who. there just is not enough money in it to make something that would stand the test of time just yet but one should be in the works. the problem with VR is the controllers more than anything there is a big disconnect between the VR headset and the controller your eyes feel like your in a new world but your hands don't at all an unless you have a good VR treadmill your feet don't feel that way either witch is only a miner thing being how you would use mounts to get around the most anyway but it needs to be in the VR package from the start with the headset and controllers the problem is no one normal would buy it at that price point it looks like the budget Edition would be 1000 dollars for a quest 3 and a VR treadmill if meta tried really hard they mite be able to pull that off. witch frankly is way to high still for most people to spend on a Christmas present for kids per person. this is all just conjecture though. its more than likely going to be around 2030 before we see a really good VR mmorpg worth playing for the masses because stand alone units like the quest 3 are what is carrying VR games not pc VR because of the price point so that means we need a stand alone VR headset that has no screen door effect with perfect controller tracking with good battery life before we even start thinking a top tier VR mmorpg will come out an the fact is most likely the mmorpg will change with the times to VR mmorpg so there really is not a big space for VR mmorpg to enter in as it seems. so the short of Why is there no VR mmo? easy the mmorpg that are out have not implemented it as a feature there waiting for someone else to do it the right way so they can copy/paste it vs doing tests on it themselves but the thing is there is no one really dumb enough to spend lots of money to make a quality VR MMORPG with a good control scheme that works because unless they get everything right then there player base will dry up in 3 months to half a year because of the copy/pasting of the big mmorpg games that only need that one feature to make their games perfect. so in short the big mmorpg are not working in favor of the consumer just of there pockets. this stalemate will go on until a stand alone headset can run vr mmorpg games with no screen door effect and Indie Developers can develop a really good VR control scheme for their VR game and modern games copy/paste it. its why its taking so long the mmorpg games doing well have no real reason to innovate very frustrating. this process is happening right now with games like zenith. which I think the controller problem is more of a form Factor problem a sword needs to be a sword in a real life controller way. same for a staff. or wand. or bow. this would but the controller immersion level 11. if done right I could see a hole industry built around this concept. when all these Pieces come together you might have something that's workable. but right now its shoddy at best.
I like the video. It's rant-y, but it's got a silly vibe (in a good way). I'd like to share my thoughts. I do want a VRMMO. A game where I can meet new people, talk to them, and have fun playing a good game. This encapsulates the two main issues I see being faced by a VRMMO. 1. People One of the largest issues with VR right now is that it's kind of in this infancy state. There's not many good VR games, and there's not many people that want to pick up their headset to play VR games (or who even have VR headsets). It's a chicken-egg problem: to get players, you need good VR games; to get good VR games, you need players (a market). The problem of having a VRMMO right now, or even 5 years from now, is that there are few players. The VR industry kind of has to build up an audience over time, until there's enough people for a proper MMO ―otherwise it's not feasible to for-profit companies. Right now, it's hard to get players even for non-MMO multiplayer games. 2. Design The other major issue I see facing VRMMOs (and VR games in general) is the quality of design, be it game design, UX/UI design, sound, art, etc. The most important bits here are the gameplay and UX/UI design (though sound and art in general are also important), since the differences between pancake and VR games causes massive differences in how the games have to be designed, from the ground up. Most VR games, frankly, suck as VR games ―often VR games will use pancake game design, essentially just leading to pancake games with a VR mode, even if they're VR-only games. If a VRMMO started being developed by a triple A studio right now, it would certainly suck ―as has been seen with many previous triple A VR games (as you mentioned, Resident Evil for example). We are getting there, but it'll take time. Design standards have to be developed across the industry, and people need to get extremely good at game design for VR games. I for one don't want the systems that are popular in pancake MMOs (FF14, WoW, etc) in VR MMOs ―the beauty of VR and motion controllers is that it allows you to just _do_ the thing you want to do, instead of pressing a button and waiting for a timer; VR is perfect for designing free-er, more immersive, and more skill-based systems. Quick side note on graphics: I don't think the graphical limitations of quest 2/3 are that bad. 'Good' graphics aren't all that important, it's having a good art-style that's important ―photorealism isn't the only avenue. Though I do hate the same-y anime-ish art style that lots of VR games have. Do something unique for once. These are the main issues I see with VR games and VRMMOs right now. VR has to get a larger amount of players, and more active players; VR devs as an industry have to develop a sense of good and bad VR game design. Let me know what you think.
I agree with this video. All I see is incredible potential, and it is driving me crazy. I just don't understand some of the inconsistency between the developers and the gamers. I want a good VR MMORPG. I want a great VR board game; Demeo was amazing. I want a great trading card game where I can duel people and summon monsters; Cards and Tankers is great, has lots of potential, but is lacking in actual gameplay. I want Star Citizen VR. There are a couple of good ideas.... but lacking in gameplay. Like you said... they seem like phone app games. I tried joining Horizen when it was in closed beta, and it was all about meetings and work. It wasn't bad, and I like the potential for productivity... but I want games more.
So, I looked it up, and these numbers could be completely off because I'm not even sure how google was answering the questions, but there's about 32 million Linux users and about 25 million VR headset units sold. I have no value judgement here, I'm just saying that if Linux users get almost ignored by most companies, what hope does VR have? IDK, it could take off, but I think there's a question of "which VR headset to target" from a business perspective, which takes that 25 million and cuts it up. I also see a question on if games can either operate in a server/client manner (computer to run the game, headset to display the pretty) or are solely on the VR headset or somewhat mixed between the two determining uptake of the headsets and if people will be interested in it or not due to the cost barrier to entry.
ua-cam.com/video/olSZuh7GnzI/v-deo.html I got the footage from here. It’s now called Into the Metaverse, however I don’t think it was ever finished. I thought it looked cool too.
The main issue with VR is the controllers! To have a good VR mmo, we need the best VR controllers. Example: Sensors | - 2x bracelet type for hands (body joints - tracking) - 2x bracelet type for feets (body joints - tracking) - 1 pair of gloves for percise fingers tracking - 1 VR headset itself actiong as a head movement tracker. - 360° walking treadmill that full interacts with the game world - [AI] for an immediat bug fixes & controller configuration. If this 6 things are created perfectly then there is no doubt that the best MMO rpgs will start to release. PS: the current VR controllers bad.
We need a gundam style mmo like build divers and we need a sao mmo . We need these games to have the same type of style of games , specific things can be earned when doing special a side quest or completing an unknown goal , instead of making just a handful of loot we need tons ,like the depth of WoW. Armor, parts,weapons,crafting/food ingredients , fleshed out worlds
im making a vr chat style game for unreal engine with focus on extreme high graphics which was lacking in vr chat. also base avatar support which vr chat sucks at. i want base avatars to look really good and be something desirable instead of leading everyone to use workshop mods which just end up lagging a bunch when u get enough people together along with security issues. using an avatar system that is actually desirable to use would save tons on ram since everybody is basically the same characters just using morphs or wearing different things or skins the meshes themselves are shared in the memory pool. i want to expand it into an mmo later on offering many game modes but for now it's just chatting. what i don't like about the vr mmo scene is it's all stylistic and they are trying to make games that also run directly on the quest's android operating system so the graphics are usually missing many graphics features. i am making a desktop vr mmo and i havent heard of any games trying to do this they all support quest and quest does not use a graphics mode from this decade. quest relies on forward rendering which if you don't know is ancient technology and does not allow for things like reflections or ray tracing among many other high end features. vr supports nanite lumen ray tracing now in the last few months and i am very excited i have waited 2 years for these features to all work in harmony on vr and i believe now we will finally start to get the ball rolling on a ready player one style graphics in an mmo game.
this kind of shared Reminder (especially by our current era's capabilities, etc) reminds me nearly similarly to the kind of vibes that this one 'Is Destiny 2 Season of the Lost Worth it and Why Destiny 2 DLC is a Scam' that I know of gives off. I Agree.
Indeed the games suck. A full on VRMMO is needed. I'm not sure you'll ever see one though. The time of MMO's has passed IMO. A VRMMO needs to be like these these LITRPG books. A huge advance in AI interaction is needed. That is pure fantasy though. Zenith is alright but not even a true MMO I think. You need the high quality graphics, advance AI interaction and most important....A huge world. When I say graphics, none of this Manga garbage.
I see what you mean. I think you could make a decent MMO with anime graphics with todays technology. But realistic graphics, full dive technology, that’s a bit off. But you have to work with what you have, and todays games aren’t fully utilizing it.
@@EliteCasual not full dive, that will never happen. I couldn't play a game with anime graphics and be immersed. Just a high quality model, not life like as that wouldn't be fun.
The time of MMOs hasn’t passed. At least for VR games anyways. And no it’s not copium. We just have shit VR MMORPGs that take 1 year to get updated. Updates should be at least once or every 2 months. That’s my biggest issue with Zenith. People are not trying to wait 1 year for a large update. People need new content and content that makes sense. Especially for end game.
they need a MMORPG, even if they start with something like Valheim low graphic quality, higher graphic environmental effects and make some basic classes (summoner dot damage, Fighter, BIG spell user's, and a rouge class. Give us something!
Yesss glad to know I’m not the only one that loves isekai, etc anime ! Glad to be a part of the community. Tbh I think we are close, yet again far from it because of the economy we are in rn. Idk if there’s alot of room for growth, but alot of ppl are just trying to make ends meet so not a lot of ppl able to enter the space. I haven’t even gotten a headset yet, but I’m hoping to this Christmas!
It is quite literally, and this isn't even an overexaggeration, the single most over saturated subgenre in all of anime. You are not some unique special fan club. There are billions of you basic bros, too incapable of reality that escapist harem fiction is the best your life has to offer.
It doesn't even need to be pretty, make it look like Runescape whatever, just make something, anything.... make me gather wood swinging an axe in VR, so I can craft a wooden sword... and go kill some mobs with random people... heal someone by opening a vial over their heads... get an epic hat loot from a boss monster fight.... so I can feel unique and ...all this amazing exercise
they tried RP1 it's an abandoned game with very little to do, good concepts were left to die. And Zenith, I've played it, you hardly see anyone outside the starting area and it feels like they put too much in at once, some parts just don't feel functional, dungeons that are blocking story progression have no players to do them, and if you try to queue up, if it finds someone (i'm not sure it did cause while preparing to load it still said 1/2 required players found). doesn't load correctly leaving you stuck in limbo as I've experienced it in this past week.
You’re completely right. I have a Quest 3 and the best I can play is Zenith? I mean it’s okay it’s just the graphics need overhauling. I just want a full dive MMO Vr game like portrayed in .hack. 😅
Absolutely everything a METAVERSE should be, more or less infinite realities or at least adventures, nobody wants AR games and nobody wants VR apps, they're the other way around
That’s the chicken and egg scenario. Someone needs to be the first. You could argue valve was with Half Life Alyx, but at that time their headset was $1k. I think they’re cheap enough for most normies at this point.
The gaming industry is more concerned with short term profit and not spending $100mil+ on a mmo when every other project from companies like sony when they didn't make expected sales of their psvr2 or how ubisoft didn't make enough profit on their Assassins creed vr game. The only company who is actually making meadsets cheaper more accessible and affordable is meta which is how zuck got hooked into a billionaires spending spree, the other reason he spent so much is because he actually likes vr from what i've seen and his share holders telling him to stop spending so much money on vr and he refused also shows that. so the only way we are gonna get a vr mmo is 1) someone with passion and care for vr 2) has the money and talent to put forward working on this 3) who is not gonna bend under pressure from investors and business men 4) once there are roughly around say 20+ million users with a vr headset that is easy to put on and is adorable accessible and cheap with the power to rival a vr ready pc from 2 years ago
Dungeons of Eternity Exists. While it is not a full blown MMO... it is a 4 co-op Dungeon Crawler. Personally a good start. I believe in voting with my purse. If I want VR RPG's I buy VR RPG's. If enough of us show we want VR RPG's.... someone will connect the dots and say..." hmmm... VR MMO ??"
MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online. MASSIVELY, now ofc the big companies are gonna be scared to invest in something that will require a big playerbase to work. Don't get me wrong, i also want a VRMMO, it's just not possible rn until the hardware's prices are more accessible for most people, we will just have to wait a little bit more
100% agree. Devs are still struggling to bring great if not decent titles to stand alone VR gaming. I said the same thing in a VR fanboy forum when Q3 came out and everyone lost their mind😂. For the money that goes into it the overall content is below subpar.
I'd argue that Oathbreakers is better than Zenith Edit: What's crazy is that Oathbreakers is made by a dude (or a few ppl) who haven't had the monetary help with development that Ramen received!
1. Make a VRMMO, Make it accessible to the most people possible! Minimize things that cause motion sickness while maximizing things that increase socialization and the grind people like. 2. You may not like it, but anime is what peak aesthetics according to VRChat and all those dumb VRMMOs you referenced looks like, so hedge your bets on that(you can even save money), and evade all these uncanny valley Mark Zuckerburgesk models. 3. I got bored and decided to stop writing here cause no one will read this far and my opinions pretty mediocre and probably wrong, still gonna press that comment button(and like button too because your right)
Zenith The Last City is the best we have of this genre at the moment, it's basically an MMORPG with elements of Breath of the Wild, Pokémon and Minecraft in a single game, you can join guilds, have a house, have a pet, if join or interact with friends to go in dungeons and do quests and the game is constantly evolving gaining more content with each new update, supporting new VR features like treadmil and basically it is available in all current VR headsets (PSVR, PSVR 2, PCVR , Quest and Quest 2 ) with crossplay between all platforms, which is great for an MMO as it means more people can play and makes the servers busier with more people to socialize with.
This game is pretty awesome and tries to do something that no other VR game has managed to do so far, I really think it deserves a lot more recognition, it's a shame there isn't as much marketing around it.
100% agree
hmm i ll buy it tomorow thanks, it should be working on HTC vive
I strongly agree
Zenith had more than 2000 concurrent players on steam at launch (there isn’t any other vr game on steam that reaches this number daily except for vrchat) there probably were much more on other platforms, this shows that people really want vrmmos. The problem is that people expect some huge world with all kinds of thing to do, which zenith couldn’t deliver since they don’t have the capability and resources to do so
I will return to zenith if there are more people playing it
I'm literally working on a VR MMO but it's looking like it'll go down the same road as Zenith, great start and lack of funds. I'm pivoting it into a multiplayer dungeon crawler instead. similar to Diablo and Solo Leveling, but without a massive community almost every MMO dies, you need a huge cashflow to keep games like that alive. So it makes sense to me to just make a big multiplayer game, and if the game grows I'll continue working on the MMO version. Making VR MMOs is just really hard, and indies seem to be the only ones willing to make that attempt rn
That sounds like it will be a amazing game, really just sucks that it has to be small developers always get stuck making these and they cant get good funds, Like if these companies dont want to make good games at least they should be supporting people like you who are actually putting in the work and making stuff that people actually want. Keep up the great work and im sure your game will be at least decently popular just because of the amazing idea.
wats the combat gonna be like?
Gonna do anything i can to support you, i’d love to play this!
@@capolean2902 melee combat while using abilities you learn from monsters you kill, I'm trying to make it feel like a hack n slash and souls like at the same time.
@@gamerlolye551 thanks a lot! I appreciate it!
Finally someone understands what we want ,we want a big mmo game that will satisfy us instead of making nonsense ,they need to put all their focus and money on a mmo game thank you for making this video for having a speaker that understand us thank you
These headsets are glorified beta tests. The entire process began as a headset improvement and then haptic improvement. Next is full body feedback and wide angle screen models in 4k. Give it a couple years and they will implement the anime ideal of vr experience.
Wouldn't mind playing a fantasy game setting. Especially where AI characters literally talk to you. With their own personality like that one anime. Where the guy got the best friend killer title. And his sister that was supposed to marry him. Wanted to kill the protag. 😂 We need a game like that. Lol.
Yea full dive is on the way
Thats literally my reason to live!
I think there's a few things we can look at regarding why we're in this situation:
1 - MMORPGs in general have fallen off in the era of instant gratification and short attention spans. It's a risky endeavor to make an MMORPG because of it.
2 - VR has only recently gotten more affordable and still has a comparatively small playerbase when compared to mobile/console/PC
2a - This also means that any MMO that has started when VR became affordable is still 3-4 years down the line from today.
3 - No one knows how to properly translate RPG combat into a VR setting yet
4 - MMOs are expensive to develop, VR is expensive to develop. The effect is multiplicative
5 - Mobile games are way too profitable to be worth developing anything else from a profit standpoint
5a - This is why any of the few MMORPGs being developed all come from small studios or as passion projects, both VR and otherwise (Zenith, Ilysia, Ashes of Creation, etc)
Overall a cute rant video, would've like to maybe see a further dig how the existing VR MMO titles are doing (your opinion after playing them), why they're not fulfilling the desire for a VR MMO you talked about and so on. Keep it up!
I generally agree with your points. I'd like to comment on point 3:
I'm not sure these systems be translated into VR. VR and pancake games have fundamentally different game design with their own unique challenges. Popular pancake game design often just sucks in VR, compared to games that are designed for VR from the ground up.
I whole heartedly disagree on the instant gratification aspect. This is a symptom of a problem invented by shitty game design. If your crappy game demands time investment, then no one will play it. If your game is actually good, no time investment is too much. People have played WoW for 20 years faithfully. FFXIV is going to be another 20+ year run game as well. Their secret?
STOP INSULTING PEOPLES INTELLIGENCE WITH UNINSPIRED AND LIFELESS GAMING EXPERIENCES. The more you love and care for the world you build, the more we will stay and pay for it. Attitudes towards VR are like people have learned nothing from 50+ years of good game design.
Look at Eldenring, most of it playerbase are younger people who never played a souls game or rpg and yet still they easily spent over 100 hours in a single playthourgh. It's all about game desgin and not the genre. The reason why MMORPG's fell of is that we didn't got anything new in over 20 Years. Legit I've tried over 20 MMORPG's and dropped them all because they just felt like WOW with a skin. Gameplay the same "start fast, end slow". This Genre is to old for something new and my biggest hope is the Riot MMO to save us from the course of wow. Maybe there game will get a VR port once its done
you say Vrmmos have fallen off in the era of instant gratification. How are you going to base that? where is your evidence? ive seen hundreds of videos with thousands of comments on people wanting exactly what you say was killed in this "era of instant gratification". While yes a lot of younger people scroll endlessly on their phones and don't have the patience for something like that, you still have millions of people who've been wanting this since vr released and are still currently waiting. That's my take on it, however your take on no one knowing how to convert rpg combat into vr makes a lot of sense and I can honestly agree because yea it is hard, people would likely have to buy full body tracking for something even remotely similar, I think blade and sorcery did a pretty okay job when it comes to full body, being able to kick and jump around, while using upper body for spells and the main fighting. I also agree that VR is expensive to develop as well as a VRMMORPG, However in my opinion VR has already come a lot way. Do we really need more VR? When it comes to standalone vr headsets or even pcvr, there will always be room for growth yes, but why not focus your money on what your consumers want? Why spend 10's of billions of dollars on another headset that's going to do the exact same thing as its predecessor? When you could put all of your attention into something your consumers have been wanting since way before you bought out the company yk? my main example of the waisting money on a vr that does the same thing with minor upgrades if any at all is the quest 3s, literally makes no sense its just cheaper. If they had stopped at the quest 3 and focused on pcvr and a really good MMO working with other big game companies, we could have had a really good VRMMO game within the next few years. Instead they waist money on the same headset with a different look. I respect your opinion and a lot of what you said makes sense it really does, especially with how expensive its going to be and the conversion of the combat to vr, but with all of those smart game developer heads I know that its possible if we really tried. The era of a VRMMORPG is not dead yet it just needs a little spark to reignite the fire.
Sword Islands by "Void Reality Labs" is an amazing game in the works, I reccomend at least watching his devlogs, He built the game from the ground up, a single developer and the game honestly looks cleaner than any Mmo ive seen enter the vr world!
Is it an mmo like zenith or just and rpg?
@@billyroche5007 It's a Cooperative MMO (4 player servers) you can play by yourself or with friends, it's Kickstarter is opening within this week, I believe it also has RPG aspects to it as well
@@billyroche5007 im two months late but its js an rpg i think ur able to play w friends tho
They're actually a few vrmmo is right now they're just all in early development stages and people don't expect much out of them.
Zenith, Ilysia, and oath-breakers are just a few. I cover all of them on my channel.
And my man didn’t even mention the best Vrmmo for raiding. Orbus vr RIP
Bro be fr all these companies that make headsets they can Definitely make a ready player 1 type game if they all work together but they wont
if they do it, I buy the game for more than 100 dollars, but need Web3/crypto included in the game @@damarcusgames
Zenith had so much potential.
Just to let you know the graph shown by Zenith in the video is like the graph for every other video game out there but as an actuall regular player I can tell you the game is not dead in fact we just got a new update wit a worldboss to fight and also the funding for that game is fine they had a kickstarter for 250k and private investors giving 10m and 25m so they are sitting on a budget of 35M
Another point is that Zenith is avaliable on Quest2 standalone, Oculus PC, SteamVR, PSVR2 therfore the steam graph only reflects the players logging in from steam
There is also another VRMMO called Orbus but sadly that one is in maintenance mode
The third vrmmo that is on the horizon is called Ilysia (allthough the beta didnt looked that promising when I played it)
This didn’t age well 😂
Zenith’s problem was they refused to add any kind of micro transactions. They were a live service game where the only income was at time of purchase 💀
Without a way of generating regular income they were destined to fail
That, plus they released it far too early
They released the game without 90% of the features and mechanics you would expect in an MMO
Shops
Trading
Crafting
Harvesting
Skill trees
Etc
So essentially they released a tech demo… with significant costs and minimal income
Dungeons of Eternity is a step in that direction... they just need to add more objectives/quests and the ability to run around in a open world where people come and go.
My main gripe is lack of match making. There should be filters for level range and dungeon type, so folks without a regular party can get to what they need to be getting to. Great game though.
@@richpeltier9519 Mine is the fact I can't play the damned thing because it's Quest exclusive. I've heard sooo much about it that I'd be interested in but as a Valve Index user, I'm not buying another multi-hundred dollar headset for a single game, you know?
@@StygianIkazuchi Quest 2 is only $200, but I get it.
Don't do it for the single game tho, Quest game library rivals Steam. The stuff I like to run on it native, is stuff that's good for in the world use. Break time at work with a Quest is a big quality of life enhancement I wish I'd jumped on sooner. Makes 13 hours shifts less stressful.
I would disagree with zenith dying. Since it came out, it has had a lot of updates and is doing pretty well.
Graphics arent the best but its a huge game and really the only one of its kind currently out.
Instead of saying its dying, we should all be supporting it. By having a lot of people playing it, it will show other companies that theres something major there. Building it up should be the goal so we can get some competition in that space for more games like it.
They have been running at a loss for 12 months now, if they don't get some more players with the new update 2.0 coming it is going to be put down like a dog. I hope it does okay though as i tried Ilysia already and well that is like an Alpha sold as Early Access and won't be good for awhile but the base is there.
I just re-read the article and here is what it says
The studio admitted that it’s been running Zenith “at a loss on a month-to-month basis for the better part of a year,” so this update is a clear attempt at a hail Mary play.
“Ultimately, we had to make a choice between making fundamental changes or putting the game on ice. We made these decisions so that we could keep running Zenith for as long as possible,” the studio said.
This age like milk😂
@@Dylanj8795 why? Saying that we should support something, to get better things in the future, is a bad idea to you?
@@Dhibbsey obviously I support what they are doing, and I would love a big company to make an MMORPG in VR but the dev themselves publicly announced that they won’t be doing any more updates because they’re finances are running low. It’s really hard to keep a game like that running.
@@Dhibbsey Cause it died
Project aincrad is a “MMORPG” in vrchat that is in the works but they are a small dev team and they most likely dont have money for a proper mmo
sao alternative js released a new season!! SO WE NEED high quality VRMMOS😭
The worst part of this is, is that we won’t even get full dive tech until 2025-2026 or 2025-2030…..
@ EXACTLYY😔
@@MichaelSigala there’s still project galea that isn’t full dive but replicates it in a similar way, try searching it up and seeing what it can do.
With mixed reality I think Warhammer and 40K should be jumping on this like crazy. Being able to play that game with buddies all over the world on virtual table tops would freaking rule.
watching shangri la frontier made me want this even more
Theres a game that ive been supporting for the past few years, its known as ilysia. Its essentially WoW in VR, its not doing too well right now, but with the right budget they could make a really good mmo, so you should definitely check it out
Good to know. I’ll check it out. We really need one of the big players to get in there though.
I think the issue with the big players is that they only want quick profits, anything that can get them quick cash, so I don't expect any big boys to make any mmos for vr.
That game has been ripped to bits. Verdict is terrible from what I've seen of it. Big dreams but not enough vision or technical ability of that company. 1998 wants it's graphics back.
From what I know the graphics are intentional, as they're going for a classic MMO aesthetic similar to classic WoW@@Sm00thCriminaal
@@Sm00thCriminaal I think for sure that one of the developers was a Old School Everquest player. The Graphics look really similar.
I want a VRMMO so badly... But damn, so much shade thrown at Walkabout Mini Golf. Those devs don't deserve that... Honestly one of the better VR games out there right now.
Check out Zenith: The Last City
You read my mind. These were my thoughts exactly. This video is so underrated I hope it blows up.
good video, I agree with most points, but we do have VRMMOS like Zenith, Orbus, Ilysia, Township come to mind, the problem is that VR is still niche and growing. It's not even close to being mainstream in the same regard as consoles and PC.
100% spot on!! Finally, someone verbalizing what I’ve been thinking for a long time!! I love your direct and articulate style, so thanks for making this video! You’ve definitely earned a subscriber.
I'd love an MMO RPG game and all that kind of stuff, though I would spend so much time in it but like, gotta live out my SAO fantasies
ive been rewatching sao and it just continues to make me wish we had those games in real vr. id love to have ALO in vr being able to fly around with my friends and fight awesome bosses, doing quests that take hours because theyre so complicated and story driven, have different races that have special abilities and uses, and GGO as well hunting giant monsters with a gun?? yes please! but i honestly think those games wont be out for another few years possibly longer because how big the games would have to be. but i dont even think theyre even being thought about by vr game creators
yeah
I want a VRMMO with multiple character slots. You know, find hidden classes by doing quests, easter eggs, pvps, achivements ect, and then create another slot and use that class. VRMMO would be golden
Check out zentih the last city its a vr mmo that you play with up too 99 people on a server. Multiple characters,classes, fight styles.
That was the og orbus vr in 2018 😭😭😭 I wish they never rebuilt their game for quest
4:58. 20 million. This is the public amount of money that was invested into zenito
Thank you for saying this. This is exactly how i feel, i have bought 2 headsets now, and a good pc, and the best i can get is skyrim with mods, for VR.
Ur dead on. It’s like the production team is too scared to speak up or the project leaders are too headstrong to listen. It’s very odd that SAO wasn’t the first thought one their minds or , like u said, .hack….or Ready player one…. or even the freakin Matrix. (Team leader: “nah…let’s make sleep simulator!!”)
Why are you so underrated my guy?
Hah thanks!
They need to get the boomers and suits out, and gamers in on the meetings where they decide games and overall direction lmao.
Hi, I usually don't write any comments at all, but there is one thing to be said... you are damn right. I literally got to a point where I would pay 100 or even 130 $ to get a SAO or Yggdrasil (the game in the anime "overlord"), and it's hilarious that nobody realises how much potential these types of games have. I would even claim that the companies could sell the games for 100 $ each and it would be a bestseller😂😂 Anyway thanks for making this video🙏 even dough I don't think that this matters to the big companies😢
in direction of vr games there will probably bever be a big company who will bring out an VR AAA game because of the lack of money it would bring in. i think the main problem is that vr glasses are still way to expensive to make profitable games with it and don't forget not everyone can play them do of loco motion sickness but i still hope that it will change soon i'm too waiting for the perfekt vr mmo world to dive in for hours and hours like SAO
The moment someone brings the combat of blade and sorcery or swordsman vr and mixes it with the social capability of VR chat is when things will start to take shape but if we truly want to recreate our VR MMO fantasies we would need to do the same thing the Devs of those fictional VR MMOs did and that's not only make these things fun to play but also a experience people would want to live in go watch ready player one go rewatch SAO or literally any of the examples you pointed out you could do quite literally anything you could do in reality there was basically no difference except for some floating screens occasionally and maybe a health bar in order to actually create these things the digital world's in these MMOs would have to be absurdly complex and interactable so much so it would make Zuckerberg's metaverse vision look restrictive hell buy a house drink some digital booze at the nearby Tavern pick up a rock and throw it at a Gobin dig a hole when you're sneaking up on some monsters complain about how the grass is fucking wet while you're crawling that's just stupid shit that comes off the top of my head but you get my point we haven't got VR MMO technology at least not the type they had in those fictional stories we have a headset that allows us to be able to see the same way they would be able to see but we can't touch we can't feel we can't interact and more importantly there is no incentive to actually do these things
I found your video coincidentally, and it's amazing you mentioned Final Fantasy and VRMMO.
I am game developer creating a Fantasy VRMMORPG right now and I agree with you. In hopes that you could do a review on my VRMMO some time, I wouldn't mind!
That would be awesome! Good luck!
Do you have a discord or anything
There was at least one at the time of this video tho. Orbus VR Reborn. Now there's finally another one: Ilysia VR :p
Maybe it’s you who need to make the game
Maybe you’re right
C'mon man, don't get my hopes up@@EliteCasual
I bought myself an oculus quest 2 about 2 years ago, it was fun at 1st since i never experienced vr att, unfortunately i barely touch it these days cuz it got boring each day passed by , I just hope we'll have a SAO game sooner or later imma wait for one even if its 10y from now
Zenith, Orbus, Ilysia, township tale... And thats just the actual MMOs, because then you have public multiplayer games that give the same feel such as dungeons of eternity...
Zenith: Nexus is a great VRMMO with a free gamemode which shows a sample of the original open-world game (the last city). The Last City, also known as TLC is known to have many features such as creature orbs to catch and summon pets, crafting equipment, quests, boss raids, travelling, and more! Zenith is a great game overall, and is also a VRMMO. I suggest you try it out!
Preserve my brain for 500 years just so i get to experience a full dive vr mmo just ONCE
You are TOTALLY right! They made us all want a VR MMO with all of these animes and movies and now that we have the hardware there is NO equivalent. If there was an ESO or Final Fantasy XIV VR MMO we'd all gladly pay the price to purchase and a monthly subscirption! All of this content in VR would be amazing! I'd never leave! I've tried the VR Mod for FFXIV and it's great but not perfect and the only vr experience for ESO is vorpx which sort of sucks and virtual desktop. I AM DYING for a VR MMO! I've been holding off on trying Zenith because it doesn't look as in depth of an mmo as I want and the graphics look like a kids game.
Just play ff14 with vr mod
"Graphics look like a kids game" Yet you want the same style of games you see in various VRMMO Anime? You're going to have a hard time finding a good VRMMO then, because the best out there currently all have that cartoony/bubbly look. Zenith is very in-depth for what we've seen in terms of VRMMO's so far. The game's got a good budget and isn't dead, and there's tons of content for it. Trust me, set aside your graphics preferences and give it a go. Worst case you refund after 1hr30min and never touch it again. Best case, you find a VRMMO you enjoy and can spend time with
@@AdolisYT Yea maybe I should. If I can enjoy my time in horizon worlds then maybe I can enjoy myself with Zenith too!
As someone coming back to VR since the beginning (Google Cardboard). The change has been huge. The costs for GOOD VR has come down. Quest 2 is now $199 making it possibly the cheapest console out. The big franchises are coming. Storage capacity has also been an issue. Most MMOs are rather large and would have to fight for space. I know this is not an issue for PCVR but the cost for that type of set up is much higher. This is the year for AA games on VR and I would be surprised if a big MMO doesn’t come out. Also look at the market for MMOs. They still tend to dominate in Asia. For the average gamer VR is still seen as something to play around with if you have money. But I guarantee this holiday season. Meta has the chance to make it go mainstream. The MMOs will come.
Imagine an mmo with elements like the map of no mans sky where you can just explore in vr with your friends that would be so sick
Eventually if we do get a full body vr game itd be cool to have one similar to Shangri la frontiers
I want to be my tanky dwarf boi and tell my friends to launch me at the enemies 😂 I need that
We want a vr mmo! Just look at VR chat. Give that game some real good gameplay and we're already there.
Bros the time is coming where we will see full dive in this time not just that but augmented reality and mixed reality and holograms and better artificial intelligence just wait
i wish i just could pull up a team right now and start developing a game like this anyone wants a game like sao people just need trainning to learn how to develope games thats all we need
There was also OrbusVR which i'm not sure what happened with that but it seemed very cool despite it's horrible graphics, but i agree with you i fully want Final Fantasy in VR, i want to be able to run around as a Viera bard with hundreds of other people in a beautiful almost open world
Meta shouldve invested their 10 bilion into creating giant super AAAA games each in different genres such as mmorpgs, fps etc.
Really Great game -> more people buy VR
More people on VR -> More money earned
More money earned -> More great games
Cycles repeats until VR replaces PC and Console gaming
So I just got through watching the anime Shangri-La frontier and I have no skills in game development. Does anyone have any ideas on how I can get started developing a VR game?
I understand why the big companies are investing on "VR meeting rooms". I can see the appeal. Having the flexibility to work from anywhere, with tools that would enhance the regular real life work sounds great. However what these companies can't see to understand is that the current VR technology is not ready for this yet. Who would want to work 8 hours a day wearing a heavy VR device with poor visibility? It just doesn't make sense.
So VR is not ready yet as a work enhancement tool. BUT VR is in a great state for gaming. These companies should invest heavily in gaming as you said, so the young generation from today will be used to the tech and much open to use it for everything in the future.
MMORPG is just the PERFECT genre to make people used to the VR tech. Having a good MMO with tons of social features, will make people coming to play it everyday. People who will get used of going on adventures with their buddies in VR will be completely open to having meetings in VR in the future (once the tech is more comfortable of course).
It baffles me how we still don't have a good MMORPG in VR to this day.
love the vibe, pray riot's MMO is truly the future [in VR]
Riots MMO is getting delayed unfortunately
Zenith last city?
The main reason is two fold, vary small market demographic (budget vs return on investment, you want the largest possible audiance). Vast majority of console players dont own a PSVR, vast majority of PC gamers dont own a VR headset, atleast not currently. The second problem is the limited control schemes with little to no standardization in the market.
We can literally make a full functional vr suit like Ready player one movie, and make a fully functional top tier vr mmorpg like sword art online, but no one is doing it, it’s not bout capability anymore because we’re capable but no one is doing it for some reason
I really thank you for this video. I want the meta devs to see this. Ik where prob never going to get full dive. But vrmmo will literally be the best thing to me, or a irl aguma. Meta needs to setup their game. So does Sony.
Well yea a vr mmo would be great. I think we're getting there but
1. A vr mmo cost a lot of money and investment. So how do you get the players and engagement. Do you make it free to play or do you pay for it. If it is free to play how do you make money then?
2. While VRchat is the biggest vr game. You'll nitice everyone does the same thing and its just a place to hangout and chill with people. A vr mmo imo has quest and side quest and grinding but many people just dont want to do that in vr.
3. Vr has a retention problem. Sone people like me dont have motion sickness so we can be in vr for days and be fine. But other even with comfort settings cant. Especially putting something on your fac, then making sure your controllers are synced, then doing your playspace over and over again. Some people dont want to do that. I think were getting to a place where thats easier like with the quest 3 that automatically does it for you and with AI improving I think that'll become faster.
I dont know if were at a place where as you said "everyone" wants a vr mmo. Sone people might just want something casual or just dont really have the time. I think we're getting there but I just dont know anyone would want to invest into that right now. We are getting "AAA" game. Things like Assassins creed nexus and asgards wrath 2 are good starts. I do think in the next few years as vr grows we could see a vr mmo but I wouldnt expect that till like 2027-29
I totally agree, but mainly because I'm so jaded from Ilysia and Zenith not having any cool beast races like Burmecians from Final Fantasy 9 or demon foxes, and only Ilysia *_MAYBE_* has thought of including velocity-based damage where the harder you swing your controller the more damage you can do to monsters and trees? You know, something that can ONLY be experienced in VR but none of these souless, foolish, companies have realized that would be a good idea yet.
But you can't be who or whatever you want to be in those games like you can with VRChat, so... guess I'll have to learn to program a VR MMO myself and make the game in 10 years from now if I ever want to see a VR MMO who cares about velocity based damage and custom avatars, digging and building base-defense and salvaging ruins.
as soon as a vrmmo is coming out, and i mean , something serious, only then will i invest in to this technology
I know I'm a little late this is just something i wanna throw out there for anyone who comes across it. In my opinion the best VR game out there is SkyrimVR. (Obviously not the base game) But with mods. SkyrimVR is an incredible experience beyond any other VR game on the market. However you need a pretty high end pc to run it with the amount of mods to make it amazing. If someone where to make a stable multiplayer mod for SkyrimVR and market it properly it would be GAME CHANGING. We would get that amazing vrmmo that we all want, and not only that it would be a learning experience for anyone to take notes on how a VRMMO should be. But for some reason, nobody has decided to make such a mod.
Honestly, probably because the development of such VRMMORPG would be better suited for when the technology gets better.
I think someone who watches animes like overlord or any manga/manhwa about vr mmo has to make nice quality mmo demo with smooth combat and immersive ideas and big companies after seeing how people want this they will probably make one
Nice video btw
Thanks! Not a bad idea for enthusiasts to maybe get it jumpstarted.
the fact is that the current MMORPGs need VR put in there game as a feature but right now you have to use mods/add-ons just to have it an its a lot of work to set up and does not work so well because of the little things like not being able to adjust combat effects an well it plays like your on rails in a VR world just enough to make you want more. witch honestly is why they are really slow to act on it we are just now starting to get VR headsets that are good enough like the quest 3 and the varjo Aero that really show what VR can be. that means most people unless rocking a 4080 or 4070 around about can not in joy what VR is all about an the fact is the gaming industry hasn't moved that fast since before the 1080. talking about games coming out for the new hardware it used to be a thing where very new games would come out able to take advantage of the new hardware but now days every game more or less recommends a 1060 to 1080 why because that really is all the power needed to run modern games good if not efficiently. this means most people have old if not really old hardware all the way back to 1080 witch is around May 27th, 2016. with VR being the really only thing people need a high end pc for now days means most people don't have one that high end anymore so in short who is going to play it on mass no one that is who. there just is not enough money in it to make something that would stand the test of time just yet but one should be in the works. the problem with VR is the controllers more than anything there is a big disconnect between the VR headset and the controller your eyes feel like your in a new world but your hands don't at all an unless you have a good VR treadmill your feet don't feel that way either witch is only a miner thing being how you would use mounts to get around the most anyway but it needs to be in the VR package from the start with the headset and controllers the problem is no one normal would buy it at that price point it looks like the budget Edition would be 1000 dollars for a quest 3 and a VR treadmill if meta tried really hard they mite be able to pull that off. witch frankly is way to high still for most people to spend on a Christmas present for kids per person. this is all just conjecture though. its more than likely going to be around 2030 before we see a really good VR mmorpg worth playing for the masses because stand alone units like the quest 3 are what is carrying VR games not pc VR because of the price point so that means we need a stand alone VR headset that has no screen door effect with perfect controller tracking with good battery life before we even start thinking a top tier VR mmorpg will come out an the fact is most likely the mmorpg will change with the times to VR mmorpg so there really is not a big space for VR mmorpg to enter in as it seems. so the short of Why is there no VR mmo? easy the mmorpg that are out have not implemented it as a feature there waiting for someone else to do it the right way so they can copy/paste it vs doing tests on it themselves but the thing is there is no one really dumb enough to spend lots of money to make a quality VR MMORPG with a good control scheme that works because unless they get everything right then there player base will dry up in 3 months to half a year because of the copy/pasting of the big mmorpg games that only need that one feature to make their games perfect. so in short the big mmorpg are not working in favor of the consumer just of there pockets. this stalemate will go on until a stand alone headset can run vr mmorpg games with no screen door effect and Indie Developers can develop a really good VR control scheme for their VR game and modern games copy/paste it. its why its taking so long the mmorpg games doing well have no real reason to innovate very frustrating. this process is happening right now with games like zenith. which I think the controller problem is more of a form Factor problem a sword needs to be a sword in a real life controller way. same for a staff. or wand. or bow. this would but the controller immersion level 11. if done right I could see a hole industry built around this concept. when all these Pieces come together you might have something that's workable. but right now its shoddy at best.
I like the video. It's rant-y, but it's got a silly vibe (in a good way). I'd like to share my thoughts.
I do want a VRMMO. A game where I can meet new people, talk to them, and have fun playing a good game. This encapsulates the two main issues I see being faced by a VRMMO.
1. People
One of the largest issues with VR right now is that it's kind of in this infancy state. There's not many good VR games, and there's not many people that want to pick up their headset to play VR games (or who even have VR headsets). It's a chicken-egg problem: to get players, you need good VR games; to get good VR games, you need players (a market). The problem of having a VRMMO right now, or even 5 years from now, is that there are few players. The VR industry kind of has to build up an audience over time, until there's enough people for a proper MMO ―otherwise it's not feasible to for-profit companies. Right now, it's hard to get players even for non-MMO multiplayer games.
2. Design
The other major issue I see facing VRMMOs (and VR games in general) is the quality of design, be it game design, UX/UI design, sound, art, etc. The most important bits here are the gameplay and UX/UI design (though sound and art in general are also important), since the differences between pancake and VR games causes massive differences in how the games have to be designed, from the ground up. Most VR games, frankly, suck as VR games ―often VR games will use pancake game design, essentially just leading to pancake games with a VR mode, even if they're VR-only games. If a VRMMO started being developed by a triple A studio right now, it would certainly suck ―as has been seen with many previous triple A VR games (as you mentioned, Resident Evil for example). We are getting there, but it'll take time. Design standards have to be developed across the industry, and people need to get extremely good at game design for VR games. I for one don't want the systems that are popular in pancake MMOs (FF14, WoW, etc) in VR MMOs ―the beauty of VR and motion controllers is that it allows you to just _do_ the thing you want to do, instead of pressing a button and waiting for a timer; VR is perfect for designing free-er, more immersive, and more skill-based systems.
Quick side note on graphics: I don't think the graphical limitations of quest 2/3 are that bad. 'Good' graphics aren't all that important, it's having a good art-style that's important ―photorealism isn't the only avenue. Though I do hate the same-y anime-ish art style that lots of VR games have. Do something unique for once.
These are the main issues I see with VR games and VRMMOs right now. VR has to get a larger amount of players, and more active players; VR devs as an industry have to develop a sense of good and bad VR game design.
Let me know what you think.
I agree.
I thought SAO was complete and AOT. I can't wait. I just bought my first VR today. 😊
I agree with this video. All I see is incredible potential, and it is driving me crazy.
I just don't understand some of the inconsistency between the developers and the gamers.
I want a good VR MMORPG. I want a great VR board game; Demeo was amazing. I want a great trading card game where I can duel people and summon monsters; Cards and Tankers is great, has lots of potential, but is lacking in actual gameplay. I want Star Citizen VR.
There are a couple of good ideas.... but lacking in gameplay. Like you said... they seem like phone app games.
I tried joining Horizen when it was in closed beta, and it was all about meetings and work. It wasn't bad, and I like the potential for productivity... but I want games more.
I agree with you I can’t wait till they make that mmo or implement it on the mmos we already have
So, I looked it up, and these numbers could be completely off because I'm not even sure how google was answering the questions, but there's about 32 million Linux users and about 25 million VR headset units sold. I have no value judgement here, I'm just saying that if Linux users get almost ignored by most companies, what hope does VR have? IDK, it could take off, but I think there's a question of "which VR headset to target" from a business perspective, which takes that 25 million and cuts it up. I also see a question on if games can either operate in a server/client manner (computer to run the game, headset to display the pretty) or are solely on the VR headset or somewhat mixed between the two determining uptake of the headsets and if people will be interested in it or not due to the cost barrier to entry.
Please what is the name of that vrchat movie??? Seems damn cool
ua-cam.com/video/olSZuh7GnzI/v-deo.html
I got the footage from here. It’s now called Into the Metaverse, however I don’t think it was ever finished. I thought it looked cool too.
The main issue with VR is the controllers! To have a good VR mmo, we need the best VR controllers. Example:
Sensors |
- 2x bracelet type for hands (body joints - tracking)
- 2x bracelet type for feets (body joints - tracking)
- 1 pair of gloves for percise fingers tracking
- 1 VR headset itself actiong as a head movement tracker.
- 360° walking treadmill that full interacts with the game world
- [AI] for an immediat bug fixes & controller configuration.
If this 6 things are created perfectly then there is no doubt that the best MMO rpgs will start to release.
PS: the current VR controllers bad.
We need a gundam style mmo like build divers and we need a sao mmo . We need these games to have the same type of style of games , specific things can be earned when doing special a side quest or completing an unknown goal , instead of making just a handful of loot we need tons ,like the depth of WoW. Armor, parts,weapons,crafting/food ingredients , fleshed out worlds
im making a vr chat style game for unreal engine with focus on extreme high graphics which was lacking in vr chat. also base avatar support which vr chat sucks at. i want base avatars to look really good and be something desirable instead of leading everyone to use workshop mods which just end up lagging a bunch when u get enough people together along with security issues. using an avatar system that is actually desirable to use would save tons on ram since everybody is basically the same characters just using morphs or wearing different things or skins the meshes themselves are shared in the memory pool. i want to expand it into an mmo later on offering many game modes but for now it's just chatting. what i don't like about the vr mmo scene is it's all stylistic and they are trying to make games that also run directly on the quest's android operating system so the graphics are usually missing many graphics features. i am making a desktop vr mmo and i havent heard of any games trying to do this they all support quest and quest does not use a graphics mode from this decade. quest relies on forward rendering which if you don't know is ancient technology and does not allow for things like reflections or ray tracing among many other high end features. vr supports nanite lumen ray tracing now in the last few months and i am very excited i have waited 2 years for these features to all work in harmony on vr and i believe now we will finally start to get the ball rolling on a ready player one style graphics in an mmo game.
Whats your discord
this kind of shared Reminder (especially by our current era's capabilities, etc) reminds me nearly similarly to the kind of vibes that this one 'Is Destiny 2 Season of the Lost Worth it and Why Destiny 2 DLC is a Scam' that I know of gives off.
I Agree.
Everyone please send this video to mark zukerberg😂
Indeed the games suck.
A full on VRMMO is needed. I'm not sure you'll ever see one though. The time of MMO's has passed IMO.
A VRMMO needs to be like these these LITRPG books. A huge advance in AI interaction is needed. That is pure fantasy though.
Zenith is alright but not even a true MMO I think.
You need the high quality graphics, advance AI interaction and most important....A huge world. When I say graphics, none of this Manga garbage.
I see what you mean. I think you could make a decent MMO with anime graphics with todays technology. But realistic graphics, full dive technology, that’s a bit off. But you have to work with what you have, and todays games aren’t fully utilizing it.
@@EliteCasual not full dive, that will never happen. I couldn't play a game with anime graphics and be immersed.
Just a high quality model, not life like as that wouldn't be fun.
The time of MMOs hasn’t passed. At least for VR games anyways. And no it’s not copium. We just have shit VR MMORPGs that take 1 year to get updated. Updates should be at least once or every 2 months. That’s my biggest issue with Zenith. People are not trying to wait 1 year for a large update. People need new content and content that makes sense. Especially for end game.
they need a MMORPG, even if they start with something like Valheim low graphic quality, higher graphic environmental effects and make some basic classes (summoner dot damage, Fighter, BIG spell user's, and a rouge class. Give us something!
Zenith is good, it would be nice if they had more money
btw, the modding community IS currently making a VR mod for FF14, give it a look, assuming you haven't already
We should have all major platform ceos and high status employees watch all vr and esekai animes
amazing video, I totally agree with everything you said.
Thank you
Yesss glad to know I’m not the only one that loves isekai, etc anime ! Glad to be a part of the community. Tbh I think we are close, yet again far from it because of the economy we are in rn. Idk if there’s alot of room for growth, but alot of ppl are just trying to make ends meet so not a lot of ppl able to enter the space. I haven’t even gotten a headset yet, but I’m hoping to this Christmas!
It is quite literally, and this isn't even an overexaggeration, the single most over saturated subgenre in all of anime.
You are not some unique special fan club. There are billions of you basic bros, too incapable of reality that escapist harem fiction is the best your life has to offer.
It doesn't even need to be pretty, make it look like Runescape whatever, just make something, anything.... make me gather wood swinging an axe in VR, so I can craft a wooden sword... and go kill some mobs with random people... heal someone by opening a vial over their heads... get an epic hat loot from a boss monster fight.... so I can feel unique and ...all this amazing exercise
they tried RP1 it's an abandoned game with very little to do, good concepts were left to die. And Zenith, I've played it, you hardly see anyone outside the starting area and it feels like they put too much in at once, some parts just don't feel functional, dungeons that are blocking story progression have no players to do them, and if you try to queue up, if it finds someone (i'm not sure it did cause while preparing to load it still said 1/2 required players found). doesn't load correctly leaving you stuck in limbo as I've experienced it in this past week.
Total agreement. Still waiting for 3 years
VRChat: Am I a joke to you?
You’re completely right. I have a Quest 3 and the best I can play is Zenith? I mean it’s okay it’s just the graphics need overhauling. I just want a full dive MMO Vr game like portrayed in .hack. 😅
Absolutely everything a METAVERSE should be, more or less infinite realities or at least adventures, nobody wants AR games and nobody wants VR apps, they're the other way around
You do know there is a group of developers called a argus vrc
real cause it just like people really want a magic mmorpg free roam game like we want that
All the big boys are waiting for more headsets to be sold before feeling like investing multi millions on one game
That’s the chicken and egg scenario. Someone needs to be the first. You could argue valve was with Half Life Alyx, but at that time their headset was $1k. I think they’re cheap enough for most normies at this point.
I totally agree. It’s cheap enough now. But I’m just saying I think that’s there logic. I think they should make it already
There is one trying to release subspace hunter looks like the closest thing to it .
have yoi seen riff xr? i just found it and it claims to be an mmo
There is 'Project Aincrad' in VRCHAT. (it's based off SAO)
The gaming industry is more concerned with short term profit and not spending $100mil+ on a mmo when every other project from companies like sony when they didn't make expected sales of their psvr2 or how ubisoft didn't make enough profit on their Assassins creed vr game. The only company who is actually making meadsets cheaper more accessible and affordable is meta which is how zuck got hooked into a billionaires spending spree, the other reason he spent so much is because he actually likes vr from what i've seen and his share holders telling him to stop spending so much money on vr and he refused also shows that.
so the only way we are gonna get a vr mmo is 1) someone with passion and care for vr 2) has the money and talent to put forward working on this 3) who is not gonna bend under pressure from investors and business men 4) once there are roughly around say 20+ million users with a vr headset that is easy to put on and is adorable accessible and cheap with the power to rival a vr ready pc from 2 years ago
Minecraft VR is the only real RPG game we got in VR
Dungeons of Eternity Exists. While it is not a full blown MMO... it is a 4 co-op Dungeon Crawler. Personally a good start. I believe in voting with my purse. If I want VR RPG's I buy VR RPG's. If enough of us show we want VR RPG's.... someone will connect the dots and say..." hmmm... VR MMO ??"
The closest thing i can find and I been apart of is Project Aincrad but the only sucky part is its in Vrchat
1. Genshin is not an MMO, but it has coop up to 4 players
2. There are multiple VRMMO games, for example: Zenith: The Last City, A Township Tale
Dont look at only steam Zenith population. It has ~1800 players every day
MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online. MASSIVELY, now ofc the big companies are gonna be scared to invest in something that will require a big playerbase to work. Don't get me wrong, i also want a VRMMO, it's just not possible rn until the hardware's prices are more accessible for most people, we will just have to wait a little bit more
100% agree. Devs are still struggling to bring great if not decent titles to stand alone VR gaming. I said the same thing in a VR fanboy forum when Q3 came out and everyone lost their mind😂. For the money that goes into it the overall content is below subpar.
I'd argue that Oathbreakers is better than Zenith
Edit: What's crazy is that Oathbreakers is made by a dude (or a few ppl) who haven't had the monetary help with development that Ramen received!
1. Make a VRMMO, Make it accessible to the most people possible! Minimize things that cause motion sickness while maximizing things that increase socialization and the grind people like.
2. You may not like it, but anime is what peak aesthetics according to VRChat and all those dumb VRMMOs you referenced looks like, so hedge your bets on that(you can even save money), and evade all these uncanny valley Mark Zuckerburgesk models.
3. I got bored and decided to stop writing here cause no one will read this far and my opinions pretty mediocre and probably wrong, still gonna press that comment button(and like button too because your right)