I think I saw Tubalcain do it years ago when I first got my lathe. The light bulb went on when I found a 1/2” X 12” piece of bar stock in one of the drawers that had a 3” taper on one end.
I have seen that rod serve double-duty. One is the carry handle that Joe demonstrated. The other is installation/removal support, you can chuck the rod in the tail stock to support it while you set/unset the fasteners in the head.
It's because they don't know anything about it! It just looks simple to them so they think it's no big deal!!! Let them try to hit the numbers like Joe, then they get to see their ignorance !!!
That was very clever. A seemingly simple part but an excellent teaching example for subtle techniques which make the difference between near enough and spot on. Thanks Joe.
Clamping a bar in the chuck before you remove it to use as a handle... been lathing for 10 years and this is a big forehead slap "DUH" moment. Always learn something watching Joe.
Hi joe, you said you’ve been a machinist for 48 years, well I’ve been a machinist for 44 years and I started my apprenticeship at 16, so that makes you older than me. Well you don’t look old enough. I wouldn’t have expected your piston to be anything other than perfect, but what did impress me was the piece of wood for changing the chuck. I also look for ways to make life easier.
Its the rewarding and easy life of a machinist that keeps me young. ( yea right ) make that block for the chuck and use a rod. Its so much easier and safer for your fingers and back.
well done sir, i got a lathe and mill 6 yrs ago and started watching Joe and Adam i have went from a hobby to a confident machinist thank you so much guys
Hi Joe, great order of operations on this part. I built this same model engine about 15 years ago, very fun for me. After the packing break in process, mine will "tick over" at 3 psi of regulated shop air pressure. Sorry to miss you at the Bash this year, but fully understand.
I offer an enhancement to your groove depth trick. Cut the outer test diameter as you did, bit a little too large. Put in your grooving tool, and use that to finish the test diameter to exact diameter (test with mike) and note the dial reading. This accounts for tool loading (both the test diameter & the grooves are cut under load). Then cut the grooves to that indication. In any case, that grooving tool had better be finished square! Another trick to true up short work in collet or chuck: Remove tool, (or put in dull tool, or empty toolholder, or aluminum tool-shaped scrap in place of tool, or use the side of the toolholder). Lightly close collet or chuck on work. Run lathe slow backwards, and feed the "tool" into the work (on the reference surface). You can feel the work squirming, then aligning. Tighten the chuck/collet. You are good to go! I have used this to square up washers in collet or chuck to do boring out operation. For a washer that is back inside collet/chuck, use a boring tool to push on/square up the work You can also use your tailstock "pusher" instead of the tool (it needs to be a little smaller diameter than the work if the work is back inside cluck/collet). It doesn't even need to be square!
Hello Joe, I have a suggestion to make for a slight change of plan regarding the piston rings.Instead of using teflon as rings how about machining a set out of cast iron and splitting them open for fitting. It will be one hell of a video making such small rings and properly sizing them to be the right diameter after splitting. I sure would love to learn how to do that.
Given the importance of the finish on the round side of the piston, seems you pretty much have to use a collet when it gets flipped around. For those of us who don't have a collet that large, it's easy enough to make a temporary collet for your 3 jaw chuck. Turn a thin donut with the ID slip fit to the piston, then take it out and split it in one place with a saw. Put back in chuck with piston, tighten chuck. No marks on your piston.
A single split ring automatically puts you off center, bad practice unless you have an adjust thru chuck and a longer life to waste time recentering for a “TOY” engine that will never ever do critical or long term work.
@@FrancisoDoncona using a conventional collet automatically puts you off center by the runout of the collet. It's always a quantitative issue. If you 1. bore a ring to slip fit the work piece in place in a scroll chuck. The ID is now as centered as possible in that lathe. 2. mark the position of the ring in the chuck. 3. Remove the ring and split it in one place only. 4. return the ring with work inserted to the same position in the chuck. 5. tighten chuck. I can guarantee that you will have significantly less runout than that of the chuck itself. My scroll chuck has .0015" runout, so if I were to only reduce that by half, I'd be down to .0008". It would probably be more like .0005" (or less). Pretty darn good if you ask me.
Joe, I’m running out of superlatives to describe this series. This series has inspired me to improve my shop and add some new tooling. I’m WAY behind you on the build but am doing the operations as I feel comfortable. I haven’t had this much fun since I did a performance overhaul on my ‘64 Ford Galaxy! Thanks!
Thats great to hear John. Its a good kit. My next build will be the EL1, miniature functioning engine lathe. OMG, you should see the raw parts in that one.
Sounds like you’ve had more communication with PM Research. I was under the impression that you were going to build another steam engine. The EL-1 looks like another exercise in very small parts. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if you try to make something with it when you’re finished. Very much looking forward to the new project.
I watch these videos at work during lunch, and I want to just run home and try these techniques out. Lots of really great technique tips in this video, thanks Joe!
as in all good ideas...... a difficult problem becomes simplicity itself. a very elegant way to duplicate the depth of the ring grooves. thanks for sharing
I use similar wood blocks for my 2 largest lathe chucks, also for storing them on the shelf. Big thumbs up for the rod trick - that was a " why didn´t I ever think of that" moment for me... Thanks for the tip!
For second side: If a suitable collet isn't available soft jaws are a good alternative which also can locate the part flat without the need of indicating, just be careful when tightening. Third on my list would be to make a bushing to size and then cut a slit in it to get a home made collet but in this case do check runout before machining!
Well Joe. Once again this is a slick post. You still take me back to when I was machining ship engines. Only difference is size and orientation. Vertical instead of horizontal. Good looking piece teach.
Lots of real insights in this one; thanks, Joe. BTW folks, "unloosen" is a word, and it means the same as "loosen." (Look it up). Language is a communication tool, not Math, and it isn't guided by rules of logic. Everybody knows when you say "yeah, right" you're not agreeing with them.
When you use the word communication, does that not imply it has to be accurate or precise. Surely language has to be to as high a standard as any math. poor communication has caused many many accidents, fatalities and expensive mistakes and still does unfortunately. I still got Joe's drift though.
Joe - as a self taught machinist I would find it most useful if you could mention material specs & insert grades that your using. I don’t have the experience to be able determine the insert grades for different materials. I try the inserts recommended from the manufacturer description and only on a few occasions I get it right with good surface finish. John🇬🇧
A trick I used to use as a mechanical ing was to make the groove deeper and install a silicone "O" ring so the total depth of the groove will be, depending on the circumference of the piston but on this circumstance .007 protrusion when adding the oring plus the ring on a one inch piston is a real ring backpressure to improve on the engine performance > so if you add the diameter of the oring plus the ring you will have to remove .007 from that sum. that will give you the best seal and more efficient conservation of energy. That is if you are to run the engine with actual steam and not compressed air . If you use compressed air you have the volume of air to make up for any inefficiencies that you induced. Not fair..... 27 years with Caterpillar Tractor Co.
So you're suggesting the use of a silicone O-ring under the piston ring to act as a spring, forcing the piston ring against the cylinder wall. Correct?
@Tony Wilson Yes, I was in different manufacturing plants including in the proving grounds. I was assign to Sydney, Australia to a company called Vought and Josephson as a Caterpillar representative many, many years ago. So you went to Peoria and Champaign doing all the parties in the evenings.... been there, done that,,, good to cross with a fellow in the same industry. Heavy equipment for ever!
@@mtabernig I hope you aren't responsible for their pricing though!.. $400 for a door striker.. and now the tracks on the excavators are all chinesium.. brand new 325's that have broken the track pins multiple times... Really unfortunate they're selling out There were a couple old fellows in my town, one was a die hard CAT guy, the other was an Allis guy CAT guy says "In 50 years my old D9G will still be pushing rock" Allis guy said "Yeah, the same rock" I had to laugh pretty hard! (I like Allis stuff, I have an HD6G)
Great work as always Joe! Thanks for sharing. If I ever quit learning while being a machinist I don't want to do this anymore!! Great tips Joe! Thanks.
I was going to go to sleep and saw your notification, a Joe Pie video or sleep hmmm sleep can wait. As i write this it is 02 52 AM here in ol London town.
Aww man, my next lathe is going to be one with a cam lock spindle. I just get jealous watching such an easy chuck swap. Also, excellent video as always!
Joe, what do think about this alternative way to set your groove depth? I would rough the OD close to it final size. Mount the grooving tool and really gently turn the od to size and set the DRO or cross slide accordingly. Then touch the side of the part and locate the position of the grooves. Feed in to the desired depth as shown on your dial indicator or DRO. Curious about your answer, be safe and happy, best, Job
Thank you for including metric measurements :-) Not all hobbyists are comfortable turning and parting-off 25mm stainless steel (even 303S31). The piston could be made from brass (CZ101), bronze (SAE660), cast iron (BS1452) or even aluminium (e.g. 2011T6) and would still function perfectly well in this context since it is the piston packing or rings that are in contact with the bore of the cylinder and form the seal against steam pressure.
There is a hole in it Henry, he wasn't parting off to centre. I think the reason for using SS as the piston material is because the α is about the same as CI. Do you not feel that the essence of engineering is to impose your will on the work you are doing? Surely you develop your knowledge and skills to the point where you can achieve this?
@@TheRunereaper Stuart Turner Ltd. use brass and cast iron for the pistons in their casting kits for steam engines. They have been making steam engine kits for over 110 years so I think they know what they are doing by now. Not everyone who might wish to build this kit has access to a lathe as powerful as the one Joe uses. I was simply presenting alternatives for those who have smaller lathes. Understanding the limitations of the tools you have is important. I believe the choice of stainless steel for the piston has more to do with the manufacturer wanting to keep costs down rather than any mechanical advantage it may give.
@@joepie221 I was wondering what the metal was - I'm a 7 &1/4 gauge steam loco builder and I use S/S because it doesn't rust (well not much). It's a mistake to use a material that has a larger coefficient of expansion than the cylinder material as it may seize up. A friend of mine used bronze in a cast iron cylinder and it did just that! The difference between using compressed air and steam is considerable, I spend quite a bit of time investigating why pumps that work on compressed air don't work on steam.
hi joe, love the series, i will be building a stuart turner v10 soon for my first build, these video clips gives me so much confidance esp on the setting up.
They fail to address working tolerances on the print. These holes should be oversize by a couple thou to let nominal stock function as intended. But I control the mating feature, so .125 was good.
Thanks again Joe...as usual blowen away with all the insight...wouldnt think twice about unloosen ...I've said "hot water heater" at least once in my life lol..take care.
@@joepie221 all I was saying is I recognize them from the late 80s when I also started in the trade. I still have my first one but when used all day every day they tend to wear in the first inch or so of travel and if the gib is tightened to keep them accurate in that range they don't want to open all the way.
Hi Joe, Another great technique learned. I too get small splinters, I have had to resort to a cheap Chinese digital microscope and a scalpel to find and dig them out, try it out when you've tried everything else!!
@@tomroskell403 Hi Tom, yes I agree a surgical scalpel cleaned with a bit of alcohol is the best way, and do use one, my problem is SEEING the little Blighters, hence resorting to my 'Chinesium' Digi microscope (used for checking tool inserts)..look after your eyes, when they start failing you realise just how good they were!!
Maybe I'll try harder next time. This was my first functional scale model and my first steam engine. I didn't realize how serious this community was when I started.
@@joepie221 Sorry Joe, not a criticism. Just a comment that castings can vary from one to another. The next casting may have been closer to straight and true. Love your work.
@@rockyd6178 Not taken as such. Its all good. On some of these parts, an extra casting should be included. The do have spare parts if you need one. Thanks for the follow up.
Neat trick. Create a boss, use Dykum,, then scrape it off to establish a depth measurement. Infinitely repeatable. Gotta remember this one! Thanks, again, Joe.
Dr Joe! Thanks for this, great pleasure as usual to watch you working (and thinking!). One doubt however: Would one not get an accurate depth for the grooves by touching off with the grooving tool on the piston O.D, then feeding 50 thou. by the crossfeed dial?
Joe,nice one as per your impecable practice,one comment had you thought of putting two partial depth drillings in the piston top to take a pin wrench to be able to remove the piston for inspection or ring replacement without having to dismantle the complete cylinder?
Thanks again for this excellent video! Just getting started in machining for fun. I noticed you use collet's for a lot of work holding. I have a four jaw chuck. Would that work as well, just take longer to get dialed in?
Joe, where did you get the collet closer you used for the last bit? I would like to find one for my lathe. I could just buy the full cam lock chuck but this seems much less time consuming. I have an MT5 taper on my spindle and a 1.500 bore
Its a royal brand closer. You can get components based on your measurements and they send pieces you assemble. Some may need to be modified, but I love it.
Excelent vid joe as always Im on that part now on the Stuart 10V but i have to say i am struggling with parting off. Do you think HSS blades are better than inserts or carbide?
Thanks for that Joe. Back in the sixties when i was a machine operator the setter would grind all the tools including parting tools and i wondered if you ground yours or used blades. Also it is the insert type i am having trouble with but i have now ordered some blades etc after looking at your vid and comments. Keep up the good work👍🏻
Very well done But have a question When you had it in the jaws the first time, Why did you not cut it to the exact length on the nut side, to the depth of where the nut hole is made, That would have been what I would have done. Your piece would have been done except for the boring for the nut,
Hey Joe im going to heat treat some threaded parts is there a rule for allowances on threaded parts to account for distortion.....or is that just a bad idea? Thanks Joe
@@millomweb Interesting. I've guess I've never heard (or maybe noticed) it used much in my circles. My brain always wants to treat it like a double negative.
Why is the perpendicularity of the piston's face so critical? I would have thought that the critical angle was that of the centre bore and the outside circumference..
The piston rests against the connecting rod that locates it in the bore and sets perpendicularity. It's the critical face because of that relationship. The other side can be "off" by a bit.
If that hole isn't perpendicular, when you tighten the nut on the rod, it could shift the alignment . That face is certainly the one to pay attention to.
Tell me your a hobby guy not an actual machinist.
Forgive me for pinning this.
Tell me you know the difference between your and you're.
Have never thought of putting a aluminium rod in the chuck for a handle as always something to learn thanks Joe
I think I saw Tubalcain do it years ago when I first got my lathe. The light bulb went on when I found a 1/2” X 12” piece of bar stock in one of the drawers that had a 3” taper on one end.
You learn something new everyday, if you open minded....👍👍👍
I have seen that rod serve double-duty. One is the carry handle that Joe demonstrated. The other is installation/removal support, you can chuck the rod in the tail stock to support it while you set/unset the fasteners in the head.
I don't understand how someone can give this series of vids a thumbs down. Well done Mr. P.
Some people just walk around all day with a chapped ass I'm guessing?
It's because they don't know anything about it! It just looks simple to them so they think it's no big deal!!! Let them try to hit the numbers like Joe, then they get to see their ignorance !!!
Fat fingers, they're probably thumbs up pressed incorrectly😉
I put it down to the fact that it’s like giving an alarm clock to a cave man - they wouldn’t have any idea what to do with it! 🤣😂😅
look he is ok to the uninitiated you shouldnt knock people helping but to put adverts on to well thats piss taking to toolmakers watching
That was very clever. A seemingly simple part but an excellent teaching example for subtle techniques which make the difference between near enough and spot on. Thanks Joe.
You got to love a cup of Joe with a slice of Pie...
Clamping a bar in the chuck before you remove it to use as a handle... been lathing for 10 years and this is a big forehead slap "DUH" moment. Always learn something watching Joe.
The bar and wood block make it a piece of cake.
Once again, knowledge gold for us, thank you. Putting the ring groove depth on the waste stock is a great tip, another for the memory bank! 👌
No guessing or special mic required.
You need to get Ths Old Tony's chuck selector, just a throw of a lever and you click from 4 jaw to 3 jaw to collet in nothing flat.
Hi joe, you said you’ve been a machinist for 48 years, well I’ve been a machinist for 44 years and I started my apprenticeship at 16, so that makes you older than me. Well you don’t look old enough. I wouldn’t have expected your piston to be anything other than perfect, but what did impress me was the piece of wood for changing the chuck. I also look for ways to make life easier.
Its the rewarding and easy life of a machinist that keeps me young. ( yea right ) make that block for the chuck and use a rod. Its so much easier and safer for your fingers and back.
@@joepie221 And your lathe ways...
well done sir, i got a lathe and mill 6 yrs ago and started watching Joe and Adam i have went from a hobby to a confident machinist thank you so much guys
That is awesome! Glad to be a part of that.
Really cool, couldn’t be more close up and pain to see, excellent! Really enjoy learning from you!!
Hi Joe, great order of operations on this part. I built this same model engine about 15 years ago, very fun for me. After the packing break in process, mine will "tick over" at 3 psi of regulated shop air pressure. Sorry to miss you at the Bash this year, but fully understand.
I'm looking forward to getting back to normal.
I offer an enhancement to your groove depth trick. Cut the outer test diameter as you did, bit a little too large. Put in your grooving tool, and use that to finish the test diameter to exact diameter (test with mike) and note the dial reading. This accounts for tool loading (both the test diameter & the grooves are cut under load). Then cut the grooves to that indication. In any case, that grooving tool had better be finished square!
Another trick to true up short work in collet or chuck: Remove tool, (or put in dull tool, or empty toolholder, or aluminum tool-shaped scrap in place of tool, or use the side of the toolholder). Lightly close collet or chuck on work. Run lathe slow backwards, and feed the "tool" into the work (on the reference surface). You can feel the work squirming, then aligning. Tighten the chuck/collet. You are good to go! I have used this to square up washers in collet or chuck to do boring out operation. For a washer that is back inside collet/chuck, use a boring tool to push on/square up the work You can also use your tailstock "pusher" instead of the tool (it needs to be a little smaller diameter than the work if the work is back inside cluck/collet). It doesn't even need to be square!
Nice work... I sure do miss Machine work did it for 7 years tug boat wheel shafts an rudders. Love your channel Joe!!
Seeing the finished product before you ever start! Key to any job preformed. Awesome knowledge sir. Thanks for sharing.
Agreed. Its always good to digest the application and critical features.
Hello Joe, I have a suggestion to make for a slight change of plan regarding the piston rings.Instead of using teflon as rings how about machining a set out of cast iron and splitting them open for fitting. It will be one hell of a video making such small rings and properly sizing them to be the right diameter after splitting. I sure would love to learn how to do that.
Given the importance of the finish on the round side of the piston, seems you pretty much have to use a collet when it gets flipped around. For those of us who don't have a collet that large, it's easy enough to make a temporary collet for your 3 jaw chuck. Turn a thin donut with the ID slip fit to the piston, then take it out and split it in one place with a saw. Put back in chuck with piston, tighten chuck. No marks on your piston.
I'd put some copper sheet under the jaws, or if you have soft jaws you can machine to fit, that would be even better
A single split ring automatically puts you off center, bad practice unless you have an adjust thru chuck and a longer life to waste time recentering for a “TOY” engine that will never ever do critical or long term work.
@@FrancisoDoncona using a conventional collet automatically puts you off center by the runout of the collet. It's always a quantitative issue. If you
1. bore a ring to slip fit the work piece in place in a scroll chuck. The ID is now as centered as possible in that lathe.
2. mark the position of the ring in the chuck.
3. Remove the ring and split it in one place only.
4. return the ring with work inserted to the same position in the chuck.
5. tighten chuck.
I can guarantee that you will have significantly less runout than that of the chuck itself. My scroll chuck has .0015" runout, so if I were to only reduce that by half, I'd be down to .0008". It would probably be more like .0005" (or less). Pretty darn good if you ask me.
Joe, I’m running out of superlatives to describe this series. This series has inspired me to improve my shop and add some new tooling. I’m WAY behind you on the build but am doing the operations as I feel comfortable. I haven’t had this much fun since I did a performance overhaul on my ‘64 Ford Galaxy! Thanks!
Thats great to hear John. Its a good kit. My next build will be the EL1, miniature functioning engine lathe. OMG, you should see the raw parts in that one.
Sounds like you’ve had more communication with PM Research. I was under the impression that you were going to build another steam engine. The EL-1 looks like another exercise in very small parts. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if you try to make something with it when you’re finished. Very much looking forward to the new project.
I watch these videos at work during lunch, and I want to just run home and try these techniques out. Lots of really great technique tips in this video, thanks Joe!
Glad you like them!
as in all good ideas......
a difficult problem becomes simplicity itself. a very elegant way to
duplicate the depth of the ring grooves.
thanks for sharing
Glad you liked it!
And that's how I'll be doing it from now on. Thank you Joe.
Joe you are an inspiration to achieve the best possibility of accuracy and knowledge transfer for the average part time / beginner . Thanks
Excellent. I'm glad to help.
I use similar wood blocks for my 2 largest lathe chucks, also for storing them on the shelf. Big thumbs up for the rod trick - that was a " why didn´t I ever think of that" moment for me... Thanks for the tip!
It gives you a secure grip.
That piston came out super clean,no fuzzy corners or anything like that..
That chuck re and re was the most seamless thing ive ever seen. Youre my youtube hero. Nice work uncle joe !
Glad you liked it! I've done it a few times.
Man I wish I could give it more than one thumbs up the tips and tricks you give to us in these videos are truly amazing many thanks mate
Neat trick as always, I learn at least a new one one every video. Thanks for your time and talents. Thanks Joe
Very welcome
For second side: If a suitable collet isn't available soft jaws are a good alternative which also can locate the part flat without the need of indicating, just be careful when tightening.
Third on my list would be to make a bushing to size and then cut a slit in it to get a home made collet but in this case do check runout before machining!
Well Joe. Once again this is a slick post. You still take me back to when I was machining ship engines. Only difference is size and orientation. Vertical instead of horizontal. Good looking piece teach.
Lots of real insights in this one; thanks, Joe.
BTW folks, "unloosen" is a word, and it means the same as "loosen." (Look it up). Language is a communication tool, not Math, and it isn't guided by rules of logic. Everybody knows when you say "yeah, right" you're not agreeing with them.
When you use the word communication, does that not imply it has to be accurate or precise. Surely language has to be to as high a standard as any math. poor communication has caused many many accidents, fatalities and expensive mistakes and still does unfortunately.
I still got Joe's drift though.
Like flammable and inflammable
Really liking this project.
Joe - as a self taught machinist I would find it most useful if you could mention material specs & insert grades that your using. I don’t have the experience to be able determine the insert grades for different materials. I try the inserts recommended from the manufacturer description and only on a few occasions I get it right with good surface finish. John🇬🇧
Great suggestion!
Love the grooving idea. I will be using this trick from now on! Great video.
Its reliable when you don't have a groove mic.
Love the trick for getting/setting your groove depth.
Its slightly more accurate than using a scale. :)
Wish I could apprentice with someone like you.
Thank you for the compliment.
Having the right mentor or mentors can do alot more for your life than help you learn a great trade
A trick I used to use as a mechanical ing was to make the groove deeper and install a silicone "O" ring so the total depth of the groove will be, depending on the circumference of the piston but on this circumstance .007 protrusion when adding the oring plus the ring on a one inch piston is a real ring backpressure to improve on the engine performance > so if you add the diameter of the oring plus the ring you will have to remove .007 from that sum. that will give you the best seal and more efficient conservation of energy. That is if you are to run the engine with actual steam and not compressed air . If you use compressed air you have the volume of air to make up for any inefficiencies that you induced. Not fair..... 27 years with Caterpillar Tractor Co.
So you're suggesting the use of a silicone O-ring under the piston ring to act as a spring, forcing the piston ring against the cylinder wall. Correct?
@@chrisarmstrong8198 Yes, I do.
Awesome suggestion.
@Tony Wilson Yes, I was in different manufacturing plants including in the proving grounds. I was assign to Sydney, Australia to a company called Vought and Josephson as a Caterpillar representative many, many years ago. So you went to Peoria and Champaign doing all the parties in the evenings.... been there, done that,,, good to cross with a fellow in the same industry. Heavy equipment for ever!
@@mtabernig I hope you aren't responsible for their pricing though!.. $400 for a door striker.. and now the tracks on the excavators are all chinesium.. brand new 325's that have broken the track pins multiple times... Really unfortunate they're selling out
There were a couple old fellows in my town, one was a die hard CAT guy, the other was an Allis guy
CAT guy says "In 50 years my old D9G will still be pushing rock"
Allis guy said "Yeah, the same rock"
I had to laugh pretty hard! (I like Allis stuff, I have an HD6G)
Great work as always Joe! Thanks for sharing. If I ever quit learning while being a machinist I don't want to do this anymore!! Great tips Joe! Thanks.
So true. Its a trade you can learn something everyday. So many fields.
I always pick up a tip or two every video. Thank you for what you do Sir !
Very welcome
I pick up something new every time I watch.
Thanks Joe
Enjoyed ...again some many lessons...thanks for sharing
Good morning Chuck. Thanks for stopping by. Stay well buddy.
I was going to go to sleep and saw your notification, a Joe Pie video or sleep hmmm sleep can wait. As i write this it is 02 52 AM here in ol London town.
Your sacrifice is much appreciated. Just have 2 cups of coffee in the morning.
You just gave me an idea for an easy 2nd op on a job coming my way next week. Thank you! Keep doing what you do.
Glad I could help!
Aww man, my next lathe is going to be one with a cam lock spindle. I just get jealous watching such an easy chuck swap.
Also, excellent video as always!
Get a six cam if you can.
Never dissaponted........thanks joe
Joe, what do think about this alternative way to set your groove depth? I would rough the OD close to it final size. Mount the grooving tool and really gently turn the od to size and set the DRO or cross slide accordingly. Then touch the side of the part and locate the position of the grooves. Feed in to the desired depth as shown on your dial indicator or DRO. Curious about your answer, be safe and happy, best, Job
Excellent. I like it.
Always learning new tricks with your videos.
Thanks.
Glad to hear that!
A thing of beauty. Includes the "satisfying clunk" at .998 when the mic just stops. Remember what you told me about splinters awhile back? ;~)
Thank you for including metric measurements :-)
Not all hobbyists are comfortable turning and parting-off 25mm stainless steel (even 303S31).
The piston could be made from brass (CZ101), bronze (SAE660), cast iron (BS1452) or even aluminium (e.g. 2011T6) and would still function perfectly well in this context since it is the piston packing or rings that are in contact with the bore of the cylinder and form the seal against steam pressure.
There is a hole in it Henry, he wasn't parting off to centre. I think the reason for using SS as the piston material is because the α is about the same as CI. Do you not feel that the essence of engineering is to impose your will on the work you are doing? Surely you develop your knowledge and skills to the point where you can achieve this?
@@TheRunereaper Stuart Turner Ltd. use brass and cast iron for the pistons in their casting kits for steam engines. They have been making steam engine kits for over 110 years so I think they know what they are doing by now.
Not everyone who might wish to build this kit has access to a lathe as powerful as the one Joe uses. I was simply presenting alternatives for those who have smaller lathes. Understanding the limitations of the tools you have is important.
I believe the choice of stainless steel for the piston has more to do with the manufacturer wanting to keep costs down rather than any mechanical advantage it may give.
Though I part a lot of stainless, this piston is made from a leaded CRS.
@@joepie221 I was wondering what the metal was - I'm a 7 &1/4 gauge steam loco builder and I use S/S because it doesn't rust (well not much). It's a mistake to use a material that has a larger coefficient of expansion than the cylinder material as it may seize up. A friend of mine used bronze in a cast iron cylinder and it did just that! The difference between using compressed air and steam is considerable, I spend quite a bit of time investigating why pumps that work on compressed air don't work on steam.
hi joe, love the series, i will be building a stuart turner v10 soon for my first build, these video clips gives me so much confidance esp on the setting up.
Hey Joe once again great work. and once again I learned something.
HEY JOE - thanks for the video . I like all the little tips
Thanks for watching!
Excellent content- as usual !! Thanks, Joe.
If u dont have a blade mic, Use two pins and mic over em, or anything u can fit in the groove
That means you'd have to have 2 pins of the same size. But, yes, that would work. Check the thread wire set !!
The pins could be different sizes
...waiting for that silver line in the Dykem for so long, the suspense.
I believe I was holding my breath as well.
Just leaving a comment for the UA-cam algoritm. (And a thank you for you Joe.)
Joe says thanks. Enjoy.
Great work Joe nice tips
Thanks 👍
Amazing as usual! Thank you sir!!!
Another say to true the part on the flip side is to use a bump center.
Drill and ream an 1/8" hole? That had me wondering just how many tools does it take to make a model steam engine. Thanks for the video Joe.
They fail to address working tolerances on the print. These holes should be oversize by a couple thou to let nominal stock function as intended. But I control the mating feature, so .125 was good.
Re straightening for facing in collet chuck. Do you ever use a roller bearing mounted on a tool holder to do this?
No, but I've seen that done.
Thanks Joe
Thanks again Joe...as usual blowen away with all the insight...wouldnt think twice about unloosen ...I've said "hot water heater" at least once in my life lol..take care.
Or Jumbo Shrimp...George Carlin.
@@richknudson5137 lol
what about unthaw?
Ooh boy lol
Great video Joe, thanks for sharing!!!!!
Thanks for watching!
Brilliant! Your scrap bin must be a very small bucket! Always on the numbers.
What scrap bin ??
@@joepie221 Touche....well played. For the chips of course!
"Wink" "wink".
Thanks for sharing! I like that technique.
18:58
LOVE that joke. 🤣
One east coaster to another.
Thanks,
John
I caught myself watching more and more of your videos and just realized I'm not subscribed. Well i had to fix that. Thanks for all the tips. 👍
Thanks.
The age of those calipers are telling a story,my first set was the same model mitutoyo I just started on my fourth.
The age of the calipers should speak to the quality of the instrument.
@@joepie221 all I was saying is I recognize them from the late 80s when I also started in the trade. I still have my first one but when used all day every day they tend to wear in the first inch or so of travel and if the gib is tightened to keep them accurate in that range they don't want to open all the way.
Another great and very informative video! Thanks again Joe.
Glad you enjoyed it
Is it possible to use a 5C collet block in a 4 jaw for those of us who only have 3C compliant spindles ?
Yes.
Great stuff - but I would struggle ... on the home hobby lathe. Thanks for the videos!
The parting operation may be tough.
Hi Joe,
Another great technique learned. I too get small splinters, I have had to resort to a cheap Chinese digital microscope and a scalpel to find and dig them out, try it out when you've tried everything else!!
This one was large, deep and in at a weird angle. It took several attempts to cut it out.
Sergical scalpel is the way with anything like that, u can indeed buy anything online.👍
@@tomroskell403 Hi Tom, yes I agree a surgical scalpel cleaned with a bit of alcohol is the best way, and do use one, my problem is SEEING the little Blighters, hence resorting to my 'Chinesium' Digi microscope (used for checking tool inserts)..look after your eyes, when they start failing you realise just how good they were!!
Nicely done part and great tip :-)
Nice to see this part being made correctly 😊 also @16:53 😉😂
Amazing. Love your tips and tricks. Pity they didn't give you a few extra castings. The next one may have been much more symmetrical.
Maybe I'll try harder next time. This was my first functional scale model and my first steam engine. I didn't realize how serious this community was when I started.
@@joepie221 Sorry Joe, not a criticism. Just a comment that castings can vary from one to another. The next casting may have been closer to straight and true. Love your work.
@@rockyd6178 Not taken as such. Its all good. On some of these parts, an extra casting should be included. The do have spare parts if you need one. Thanks for the follow up.
1/10th... close enough. It's always good to stop by and unloosen a bit lol
Ha ha. Double checks with crappy steel rule. Shades of TOT! (from Oz)
Apparently, its good advice in some shops. Not this one. Or yours hopefully.
Neat trick. Create a boss, use Dykum,, then scrape it off to establish a depth measurement. Infinitely repeatable. Gotta remember this one! Thanks, again, Joe.
It works well.
at aprox 21:20, you decided to face the piston before cutting the counter bore.
is there a drawback to cutting the counterbore before the facing?
Other than the direction of any burr formed, I'd say it doesn't matter. After deburring, it would be almost impossible to tell what was done first.
Thanks Joe!!
Dr Joe! Thanks for this, great pleasure as usual to watch you working (and thinking!). One doubt however: Would one not get an accurate depth for the grooves by touching off with the grooving tool on the piston O.D, then feeding 50 thou. by the crossfeed dial?
Joe,nice one as per your impecable practice,one comment had you thought of putting two partial depth drillings in the piston top to take a pin wrench to be able to remove the piston for inspection or ring replacement without having to dismantle the complete cylinder?
I think spanner holes is a good idea, but I don't know if it will effect the volume balance. Maybe both sides??
@@joepie221 the holes only need to be 1/8 and about a 1/4 deep, doubt it would have any effect at all
Thanks again for this excellent video! Just getting started in machining for fun. I noticed you use collet's for a lot of work holding. I have a four jaw chuck. Would that work as well, just take longer to get dialed in?
yup, you'd just want to have some shims or use soft jaws to not bend over the ring lands
Joe, where did you get the collet closer you used for the last bit? I would like to find one for my lathe. I could just buy the full cam lock chuck but this seems much less time consuming. I have an MT5 taper on my spindle and a 1.500 bore
Its a royal brand closer. You can get components based on your measurements and they send pieces you assemble. Some may need to be modified, but I love it.
@@joepie221 thanks. I'm putting together the best big shopping list to expand my production capability
Looks like a high performance flat top to me.
It may run like one.
Another great vid, thanks for posting. Although, 22:40 Surely it's the piston that drives the rod ;-)
I guess on a single cylinder steam engine you may be right. Strange to view it that way.
Fantastic job, now how do we make the rings?
The rings are in the kit
Split PTFE tubing.
Excelent vid joe as always
Im on that part now on the Stuart 10V but i have to say i am struggling with parting off.
Do you think HSS blades are better than inserts or carbide?
I use HSS exclusively. I have never warmed up to inserts or carbide, but many swear by them.
Thanks for that Joe.
Back in the sixties when i was a machine operator the setter would grind all the tools including parting tools and i wondered if you ground yours or used blades.
Also it is the insert type i am having trouble with but i have now ordered some blades etc after looking at your vid and comments.
Keep up the good work👍🏻
Informative, seeing as the counter bore was non critical why not just plunge an end mill. The boring aspect was nice though.
I'm not a fan of chucking end mills, but that would absolutely work.
Very well done
But have a question
When you had it in the jaws the first time,
Why did you not cut it to the exact length on the nut side, to the depth of where the nut hole is made, That would have been what I would have done.
Your piece would have been done except for the boring for the nut,
Better cosmetic finish with a true facing tool.
@@joepie221 you win
......or (Joe V.M.C.) no not Marine Corps. but Variable Machining Center LOL Excellent video and voice over !!
Hey Joe im going to heat treat some threaded parts is there a rule for allowances on threaded parts to account for distortion.....or is that just a bad idea?
Thanks Joe
Unless its a really big or critical part, I wouldn't worry about it. Just be careful how you quench it.
Hey joe! Wouldn't unloosening be tightening? I kid you.
I guess I have had too much contact with Texans, I missed that.
And here we go...
Nope. It's in the dictionary.
OK. Sometime you are going to have to tell us the story behind “unloosen” 😎
Those of us in the know have been unloosening for years 🙃
I've already had a gentle dig at Joe over his unloosen! I've decided to let it slip, it is a nice trademark for him!
@@millomweb Interesting. I've guess I've never heard (or maybe noticed) it used much in my circles. My brain always wants to treat it like a double negative.
@@NotIT There are a lot of "good" words to use that we don't use because we haven't heard them.
@@millomweb They might, I'm an Ozzie so we would say loosen or backoff or undo, among other words, each to their own I guess. All good fun tho'
Why is the perpendicularity of the piston's face so critical? I would have thought that the critical angle was that of the centre bore and the outside circumference..
I think Joe mentioned that the face registered on a shoulder on the piston rod. That is what controls the alignment of the piston.
Where it meets the shoulder on the piston rod should be true and concentric.
he did mention it, it's so the piston rod is absolutely in line with the piston, the OD and ID will be in line when tuned in the same setup like this.
The piston rests against the connecting rod that locates it in the bore and sets perpendicularity. It's the critical face because of that relationship. The other side can be "off" by a bit.
If that hole isn't perpendicular, when you tighten the nut on the rod, it could shift the alignment . That face is certainly the one to pay attention to.
Isn't to "unloosen" the same as to tighten?? Just sayin'....
As always, excellent content, thanks for sharing.
obviously your technicality-lingo is a bit off
Hi Joe,
Nice work... sorry to bother you but what camera to you use to film from the rear of the lathe.
Take care
Paul,,
B500 Nikon
@@joepie221 Thank you Joe.
You do grate work. This is a steem engine and it will run no doubt. But they do not need to be perfect to run.
Perfect is better
He is doing this at his normal level of accuracy. Why would he want to get sloppy just for this project?
@@shadowdog500 not saying he needs to. just that steam engine don't need it to run. That was the nice thing about steam power in its day
All I can say is: "R-E-S-P-E-C-T", Thanks Professor Joe!
"Unloosen" your a funny guy Joeπ. Nice idea's for digging out the ring grooves. :-) Be safe everyone.
Grab a dictionary.
@@joepie221 Ooohh... Them fighting words... Hahaha!