As a great example, during the championships yesterday, John could have made the gaps between his bases smaller to prevent the wardens from being able to get to the outside. Combat tricks video is in the works, and there is A LOT to go over!
Great video! You did pick one the worst layout, for the specific reasons you shown. I hate this layout when playing with vehicles or monsters. On T2, the SM could have dropped the aggressor/bladeguards to charge the nearby units to start to create some room. It also shows the importance of having at least one unit with infiltrate to protect your side of nomanlands or even better using infiltrators to deny 12".
I’ve been considering running two units of infiltrators for my Vanguard Dark Angels for exactly this reason. Infiltrating two units of Infiltrators and one unit of Deathwing Knights with terminator chaplain with Blade Driven Deep
The so called 40mm based are actually 39.6mm on the bottom. So technically can't screen 3 inch deepstrike to be on objective (as the objective is stated as "real" 40mm). Probably best to ask TOs in advance how they would rule it in a tournament and just agree before matches when playing in other settings.
This is so true I play Necrons and at one RTT I was playing a Demon player who had very little shooting. I had some flayed ones and I put them only a few inches outside my deployment zone but within a long charge of his blood crushers. He went first and when he moved with his blood crushers and they were in mid field. I then advanced my falyed ones got a good advance roll moved them just outside engagement range. Then advanced my Nightbringer and Skorpekhs for the next turn. His turn he moved and inch and flattened the flayed ones, but I didn't care. Because his bloodcrushers were in an easy charge of my nightbringer and Skorpekhs. It was the first time I did it and the game was EZ. Other examples are a local Tau player will literally move his piranhas very agressively to move block me so he can get an extra turn of shooting. As a necron it really hurts bad when I miss a turn of moving.
Love the video! I'd love to see more mock games like this. In particular, I'd like the SM perspective in this game. I mean, IMO it seems SM had the game lost from turn one: was there anything they can do (apart from winning first turn roll), better deployment knowing that the pathfinders can move block like that baing the first unit placed by the tau player? Is it a matter of too many vehicles in this layout?
Great video! Unfortunately i play Death Guard 😂 slow as af but i do also play World Eaters, daemons and thousand sons and this is something i definitely need to improve on.
I'm new to playing warhammer. I've played two games with a friend that is also learning. Is it just Pariah nexus that plays with the bases on terrain? My LGS has mixed terrain where some is on a base and others are not at all. Is there always an invisible base that blocks LOS? Or is that just for the current pariah nexus rules?
Hi, not the OP but wanted to help with your question. The official GW pariah nexus terrain layouts show you where to place terrain, and for competitive "purity" they are denoted as rectangular areas with implied heights. They're almost always "ruin" type terrain. The clear plastic bits on the table are used as play aids by tournament organizers and competitively-minded players. You don't need to use them in your casual games! Just have fun, learn the flow of the rules, and if you want to get into the more competitive side of the game, there are lots of resources for that stuff online.
New to 40k so correct me if I'm wrong. Since your Pathfinder unit has more than 7 models in it, doesn't each model have to be within 2 inches of at least two other models? You shouldn't be able to spread them that wide
Yep, each side has a "cap", which then makes all of them within 2" of at least 2 model. I should make a video about coherency and how its sometimes good to take yourself out of it to deny LOS and other things.
@@theoryhammernerds I had the same question. And now I learend something new :-) sneaky with the capped at each end (ill use this with my 20 man necron blob)
@@termochila4985 Yes yes it does. Scouts "A unit that moves using this ability must end that move more than 9" horizontally away from all enemy models."
Yes it does, you need to be 9" away from an enemy. However, he hasnt done anything like that in the video. He mentioned briefly when controlling Tau 1st turn that if goes second, he would use the scout move to move behind cover around the 3:00 mark. Other than that, all movements were normal or advance move.
how far can you legally place the scouts apart? The whole spread out plan might fall apart because of unit coherence. One attack with [precision] would end half of the squad.
@@maxmagnus377 ahh i see. my friend and i always played it as "choose as you like", but after reading the rule, its clear. thanks, i will definatly use more moveblocking in the future.
That ruin is using a clear plastic base which becomes the ruin's footprint. Basically the plastic base is the actual ruin, and the walls on top of it are extra and block movement. You can't shoot from one side of a ruin through to a target on the other side. The Land Raider has no way of drawing line of sight without going over the plastic base, therefore it cannot see or be seen through the gap. You can move through it since there are no walls there, but you can't see through it.
Great video! Do you have any tips for dealing with World Eaters if you’re rocking a bit of a fluffy, casual list? Say you’re playing Necrons but you don’t have any infiltrating flayed ones but you do have a few melee units like Lychguard, Skorpekhs and Wraiths that get DELETED by World Eaters. Feels like if you don’t take a list that’s the absolute peak of meta against them, you just lose.
I dont think its necessarily considered meta to bring a lot of ranged firepower for the necrons, but it is common sense. Their melee units are mostly blockers. Deep strike some tanky units perpendicular to the world eaters line of advance and make sure they are the closest unit to the enemy. Shoot each enemy enough to make sure you are triggering their surge moves... in the WRONG direction. Don't give them free moves towards your reanimators or lords. Pre measure- a lot. Don't be lured into shooting an enemy unit that could allow their surge move to put them close enough to charge you 1 turn earlier, unless you can guarantee to kill it.
@ some good tips, thanks. The only problem with that is there aren’t really any necron deepstrike units that are tanky and tbh nothing is tanky into World Eaters. They will kill just about any necron units short of a C’tan in a single turn of melee. I’ve lost 10 shield lychguard in a single turn to a single WE squad many times. Sickening.
You´ve got 10 Tau infantry as an example in this video, how are able to space them that far apart without loosing cohesion? "While a unit has seven or more models, all of its models must instead be set up and end any kind of move within 2" horizontally and 5" vertically of at least two other models from that unit. This is called Unit Coherency. If for any reason a model cannot be set up in Unit Coherency, or cannot be set up following any restrictions stated by other rules (e.g. while setting up using the Deep Strike ability), that unit cannot be set up. If a unit cannot end a move in Unit Coherency, it cannot make that move and its models are returned to their previous positions."
I believe you're talking about his pathfinders. Its very likely he just quickly place them for the purposes of the video. If you notice each far edges there's 3 pathfinders close together, its to clock the 2 models coherency (far end has two on his immediate left/right, middle has two in his immediate left/right, other end uses the far end + next model in 2"). In the center, there's the triangle, just measure 2" from each other.
I don't think I have ever played a game where both players start inside a box with only narrow openings. But sure....IF you have such a terrain, then blocking becomes important
I agree with both you guys. It was like when I was briefly into Magic, and somebody broke out a blue deck, I’d just concede. If I get this kinda fuckery im just like “ah you win bud. I’m going home to play video games.”
The reverse to this video would be cool too, how to deal with move blocking.
As a great example, during the championships yesterday, John could have made the gaps between his bases smaller to prevent the wardens from being able to get to the outside. Combat tricks video is in the works, and there is A LOT to go over!
Great video! You did pick one the worst layout, for the specific reasons you shown. I hate this layout when playing with vehicles or monsters. On T2, the SM could have dropped the aggressor/bladeguards to charge the nearby units to start to create some room. It also shows the importance of having at least one unit with infiltrate to protect your side of nomanlands or even better using infiltrators to deny 12".
I’ve been considering running two units of infiltrators for my Vanguard Dark Angels for exactly this reason. Infiltrating two units of Infiltrators and one unit of Deathwing Knights with terminator chaplain with Blade Driven Deep
Fair point! Can't Cover EVERYTHING in one video though!
The so called 40mm based are actually 39.6mm on the bottom. So technically can't screen 3 inch deepstrike to be on objective (as the objective is stated as "real" 40mm). Probably best to ask TOs in advance how they would rule it in a tournament and just agree before matches when playing in other settings.
Interesting. I actually did not know this! I shall keep that in mind :D
Love this video! Keep it up dude
This is so true I play Necrons and at one RTT I was playing a Demon player who had very little shooting. I had some flayed ones and I put them only a few inches outside my deployment zone but within a long charge of his blood crushers. He went first and when he moved with his blood crushers and they were in mid field. I then advanced my falyed ones got a good advance roll moved them just outside engagement range. Then advanced my Nightbringer and Skorpekhs for the next turn. His turn he moved and inch and flattened the flayed ones, but I didn't care. Because his bloodcrushers were in an easy charge of my nightbringer and Skorpekhs. It was the first time I did it and the game was EZ.
Other examples are a local Tau player will literally move his piranhas very agressively to move block me so he can get an extra turn of shooting. As a necron it really hurts bad when I miss a turn of moving.
im so happy they used Tau in this example because im building my tau army and it gives me a good idea of how i want to use them.
Great content - really enjoy your videos 👏🏽👏🏽
Love the video! I'd love to see more mock games like this. In particular, I'd like the SM perspective in this game. I mean, IMO it seems SM had the game lost from turn one: was there anything they can do (apart from winning first turn roll), better deployment knowing that the pathfinders can move block like that baing the first unit placed by the tau player? Is it a matter of too many vehicles in this layout?
Great video! Unfortunately i play Death Guard 😂 slow as af but i do also play World Eaters, daemons and thousand sons and this is something i definitely need to improve on.
Just today I used Drukhari mandrakes to move block a sisters army rhino that has scout 9 lol
bruh if i was in a land raider driver´s seat and a random enemy infantry just stayed in front of me i´d just turn it to red goo beneath my tracks.
I'm new to playing warhammer. I've played two games with a friend that is also learning. Is it just Pariah nexus that plays with the bases on terrain? My LGS has mixed terrain where some is on a base and others are not at all. Is there always an invisible base that blocks LOS? Or is that just for the current pariah nexus rules?
Hi, not the OP but wanted to help with your question. The official GW pariah nexus terrain layouts show you where to place terrain, and for competitive "purity" they are denoted as rectangular areas with implied heights. They're almost always "ruin" type terrain. The clear plastic bits on the table are used as play aids by tournament organizers and competitively-minded players. You don't need to use them in your casual games! Just have fun, learn the flow of the rules, and if you want to get into the more competitive side of the game, there are lots of resources for that stuff online.
New to 40k so correct me if I'm wrong. Since your Pathfinder unit has more than 7 models in it, doesn't each model have to be within 2 inches of at least two other models? You shouldn't be able to spread them that wide
So that there is called the dog bone. The end two models are closer so every model will still be within 2"
Yep, each side has a "cap", which then makes all of them within 2" of at least 2 model. I should make a video about coherency and how its sometimes good to take yourself out of it to deny LOS and other things.
What's the terrain you are using?
@theoryhammer I need this information as well
I should have plugged them. Its from squad marks!
Aren't the pathfinders on the ends in the first example set up out of unit coherency?
Yep.
Nope, they were capped at each end :)
@@theoryhammernerds I had the same question. And now I learend something new :-) sneaky with the capped at each end (ill use this with my 20 man necron blob)
When you were moving your scouts, don't you have to end your movement 9" away from an enemy?
you can't scout into engagement, but there's nothing saying you need to end 9" away... that's just deployement for deepstrike and strat reserves
@@termochila4985 Yes yes it does.
Scouts
"A unit that moves using this ability must end that move more than 9" horizontally away from all enemy models."
@@termochila4985scout moves cannot be within 9" of your opponent's deployment or models.
Yes it does, you need to be 9" away from an enemy. However, he hasnt done anything like that in the video. He mentioned briefly when controlling Tau 1st turn that if goes second, he would use the scout move to move behind cover around the 3:00 mark. Other than that, all movements were normal or advance move.
That move was during the movement phase. Because yes, you are correct, you cannot scout within 9" of enemy units or their DZ.
how far can you legally place the scouts apart?
The whole spread out plan might fall apart because of unit coherence. One attack with [precision] would end half of the squad.
precision only lets you force saves on a character model first, not any model you please.
@@maxmagnus377 ahh i see. my friend and i always played it as "choose as you like", but after reading the rule, its clear.
thanks, i will definatly use more moveblocking in the future.
Why cant the landraider overwatch through that giant opening in-between the two buildings?
That ruin is using a clear plastic base which becomes the ruin's footprint. Basically the plastic base is the actual ruin, and the walls on top of it are extra and block movement. You can't shoot from one side of a ruin through to a target on the other side. The Land Raider has no way of drawing line of sight without going over the plastic base, therefore it cannot see or be seen through the gap. You can move through it since there are no walls there, but you can't see through it.
Oh yeah, I didn't notice the clear plastic footprints. Thanks
Riptide can Fly
So it can go above scouts
Indeed but it needs to advance to be more than 1” away (as he said)
And they can only move 10”
That’s a lot of metal/advanced ceramic-polymer alloy to shift.
Great video! Do you have any tips for dealing with World Eaters if you’re rocking a bit of a fluffy, casual list? Say you’re playing Necrons but you don’t have any infiltrating flayed ones but you do have a few melee units like Lychguard, Skorpekhs and Wraiths that get DELETED by World Eaters. Feels like if you don’t take a list that’s the absolute peak of meta against them, you just lose.
I dont think its necessarily considered meta to bring a lot of ranged firepower for the necrons, but it is common sense. Their melee units are mostly blockers.
Deep strike some tanky units perpendicular to the world eaters line of advance and make sure they are the closest unit to the enemy. Shoot each enemy enough to make sure you are triggering their surge moves... in the WRONG direction. Don't give them free moves towards your reanimators or lords.
Pre measure- a lot.
Don't be lured into shooting an enemy unit that could allow their surge move to put them close enough to charge you 1 turn earlier, unless you can guarantee to kill it.
@ some good tips, thanks. The only problem with that is there aren’t really any necron deepstrike units that are tanky and tbh nothing is tanky into World Eaters. They will kill just about any necron units short of a C’tan in a single turn of melee. I’ve lost 10 shield lychguard in a single turn to a single WE squad many times. Sickening.
You´ve got 10 Tau infantry as an example in this video, how are able to space them that far apart without loosing cohesion?
"While a unit has seven or more models, all of its models must instead be set up and end any kind of move within 2" horizontally and 5" vertically of at least two other models from that unit. This is called Unit Coherency. If for any reason a model cannot be set up in Unit Coherency, or cannot be set up following any restrictions stated by other rules (e.g. while setting up using the Deep Strike ability), that unit cannot be set up. If a unit cannot end a move in Unit Coherency, it cannot make that move and its models are returned to their previous positions."
I believe you're talking about his pathfinders. Its very likely he just quickly place them for the purposes of the video. If you notice each far edges there's 3 pathfinders close together, its to clock the 2 models coherency (far end has two on his immediate left/right, middle has two in his immediate left/right, other end uses the far end + next model in 2"). In the center, there's the triangle, just measure 2" from each other.
I don't think I have ever played a game where both players start inside a box with only narrow openings.
But sure....IF you have such a terrain, then blocking becomes important
Move block is like one of the most boring and unnarative(if you are not playing guard) mechanics in the game
But it’s a winning strategy for the game you are playing. Context is king
I agree with both you guys. It was like when I was briefly into Magic, and somebody broke out a blue deck, I’d just concede. If I get this kinda fuckery im just like “ah you win bud. I’m going home to play video games.”