Wow! This is a masterclass at how to critique a friend or at least someone you genuinely care for and respect. This needed to be said as it is such a serious issue and his large platform could lead many souls astray. Thank you! Will continue to pray for your ministry and for Calvin’s full conversion to the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church!
We KNEW this was inside of you! Jolly Good to see you express Christs Charity and Mercy as Truth! The Gospel is often times a tough pill to swallow. Thank you for caring for Calvins soul as apparently no one else has had the courage and love to do so! God Bless you 🙏 ❤
I have SO MUCH respect for Calvin's courage and speaking, and much of what he says (as a former "Anglo-Catholic" myself) resonates and I find myself sympathizing with. BUT I have come to the Catholic Church (Confirmed in April) to experience the fullness of Christianity and a relationship with Christ, and looking back now after a conversion process that was lengthy (many years), painful (cost me dear friendships and still risks some of my family relationships), and messy, I can see so plainly that sincerely striving for the historic, living Christian faith could have led nowhere other than to the Catholic Church. Based in Rome. Under the Pope in communion with the worldwide bishops. I hope that Calvin finds his way home too.
As a new catholic convert, thank you for such a concise explanation of the interview. When I watched it, and was confused by Calvin's answers, I thought my lack of knowledge was the issue not him.
@@ShirleyShirley-t5f I have always liked listening to Calvin but that interview with Taylor Marshall changed my mind somewhat. I thought Calvin came across as rather 'full of himself'. He didn't listen and his answers were too quick and without sufficient thought. The cigar smoke really annoyed me. So yes, the attitude was my biggest complaint. very disappointing.
You appear to be expecting a lot of your audience intellectually in your current crop of lectures, they seemed to be pitched higher than former ones, and you seem to be happier for giving yourself a free reign to express your personal ideas and to range across many fields of knowledge and cite multiple sources. This is exhilarating to listen to, very challenging in a positive way. Please carry on being emboldened to share your unique point of view with full vigour.
Nothing wrong with going for a long walk and having to exercise your legs. Nothing wrong with listening to a reasoned argument, and having to stretch your mind.
I was so hoping that you would address this interview because you are uniquely qualified to do so. Thank you for bringing the historical, as well as the theological and ecclesial perspectives which are anything but ‘cosmetic’!
Check for accuracy, especially in the history department, compatibility with Vatican II on Anglicanism, and compare what Gavin said on Apostolicae Curae with the easy to read publication INRALLIBLE FALLACIES (London: S.P.C.K., 1953).
As always, you speak the truth with love, as scripture says. You have such a gracious spirit in your conversation. Thank you, especially for the exhortation to "pay the price, it's worth it." And also the reminder to defend the Church in these trying times. God bless you and please continue to teach us and encourage us in our faith. To God be the glory. 🙏🏻
Thank you so much, Doctor Ashenden. This conversation was a brilliant and charitable examination of Calvin Robinson and the paucity of Anglican Protestantism. Calvin Robinson needs to enter the faith and some Bishop needs to reach out to him. God bless and sustain you.
Thank you so much, Dr. Ashenden, for this insightful presentation. Calvin Robinson has been a puzzle to many of us in recent times. While I appreciate his clearly fervent Christianity, and his public defense of the faith during the crises of this modern era, I have been concerned that his - how can I call it - liturgical laxity - will in the end cause harm where it didn't need to and weaken his position. We are all evolving as Christians. My prayer is that CR will heed the wisdom you have presented here, make the sacrifice, and embrace the one holy Catholic faith completely.
That was superb and thank you for it. Calvin appears to be a man of good will but also appears very mixed up as you pointed out. He simply wishes to go his own way rather than submit his intellect and will to the Church. I watched his interview with Taylor Marshall but had to switch off after he made a number of ridiculous assertions. Perhaps he will enter the Church, even though it is led by men who bring shame on it. The Church is still the Church of the Saints and bears the four marks that distinguish it from all others.
@@afterlate8866 Calvin made the ridiculous claims about his orders being valid in the Catholic church which is patently untrue yet he projects himself as a godly follower of Christ. To possess valid Orders places oneself squarely as a church member. Marshall is infamous for his his rabid denunciation of Pope Francis. If you watch his interview with Calvin recently he reveals how his failed bid to organize a foundation under McCarrick was rejected on the watch of pope Francis. Unfortunately, Dr. Gavin, whom I and many others admire, allies himself with TM. So, they are sad reflections on the church.
Marshall is just stating facts, just like many many Priest all over the world who disapprove Pope Francis action. Heck even Ralph Martin has something to say against the Pope on how he is steering it towards confusion. Cure your Taylor Marshall syndrome, its not him, its the Pope.
What an excellent explanation of so many key issues. As an American, I learned a great deal and came away deeply impressed by the combination of clarity and charity on Gavin’s part.
As a person who has seen this issue and have gone through the stages from being so called Anglo-Catholic to now going on this long and painful journey to Rome through the Ordinariate, I was so blessed to hear this analysis. God bless you.
Henry's distribution of the assets of the monastic houses to his friends probably sealed England's fate because it gave the most powerful people of England a vested interest in supporting Protestantism. The restoration of Catholicism would have put them and the government under enormous pressure to see that those assets were returned.
Yes - King Henry VIII was a master politician. His father, King Henry VII was extremely unpopular, because he was a greedy man who spent most of his reign confiscating property and taxing his subjects up to the limit. His son was, in the early years of his reign, extremely popular, because he reversed this process. Queen Katherine was also extremely popular - while Henry was fighting in France, she led an English army against Scotland, displaying the military prowess inherited from her parents, Ferdinand and Isabella. It could all have ended so much better. All that Henry needed to do was to do what King Henry I had done - persuade the Nobles to agree that his daughter should inherit the Throne on his death. While it did not work for King Henry I (the Nobles repudiated their agreement to accept the Empress Mathilda as their Sovereign) it might well have worked for King Henry VIII.
I'm not condoning Henry's use of Monastic funds for war mongering but we have to remember why the Monasteries were so rich in the first place. Playing on peoples' fears about the after life and garnering monies from indulgences, pilgrimages and relics (most of them dubious) brought in huge wealth. Quite simply, God had had enough. The corruption of Rome was at an unprecedented level and the Reformation was inevitable.
@@clivejames5058 Whereas Henry and those who received the assets of the monasteries were motivated by high ideals? What high ideals? Was it to reform the monasteries? If so, how does closing something down "reform" it? It doesn't. The monasteries were where Henry VIII's most effective opposition came from. He needed to destroy them and he used the pretext of their supposedly uniquely high levels of corruption to do so. He gave Protestant-friendly nobility the assets in order to buy their complicity or at least acquiescence in his designs. Once having been bought-off they needed to support Protestantism and the propaganda he invented to "justify" the asset seizure.
I've listened to this commentary twice now and want to thank Gavin for insight and analysis. Even though I am Catholic I hadn't understood the 39 articles and am actually rather shocked at the venom contained within them.
Very astute diagnosis of a reprobate construction such as Anglicanism. I came back into the fold after skipping for 12 years in the angry desert of protest and becoming weary to despair unless I returned to receive Holy Communion this Easter Vigil where i find myself in Common Humanity again and so cheerful again praise Be to the name of the Lord. We are in a real Culture battle and for sure do we need St Peter's posterity to embolden us against the Holy Ship's dodgy pilots and leaking hull. May The Holy Spirit enable us to defend against the inner as well as the outer Wolves. Pax Vobiscum Amen + .
I will have to listen to this again. It was well worth it the first time. Perhaps only a former-Anglican (with such deep knowledge and a good intellect) could be so devastating about the Church of England. I don't know of any cradle Catholics who would have been able to have done the same. Having listened to you I think that many of us have been too charitable towards the Church of England.
Thanks for a wonderful video. While I have much admiration for Mr Robinson's courage in defending traditional values without counting the cost, I do respectfully agree with your conclusions concerning the possible disingenuity of his position as to his relationship and standing with the One True Faith. He is clearly NOT a Catholic but if he continues to falsely argue otherwise, then he will have only succeeded in re-Protestantise himself and create the 450,000th Protestant denomination!
Who is better? Calvin or your local gay Catholic priest? Father James Martin? Calvin could of gone very, very far in the CofE if he had just played the game. But he chose God. That is a lot braver than many, many 'faithful' people who call themselves Catholic but then try to bring in affirming theology into the Catholic Church.
I often wonder if Fr Calvin doesn't want to convert to Catholicism because he doesn't want to give up his media persona/public ministry. To convert may mean giving up the priesthood.
Converting to Catholicism would not mean he would need to give up his public ministry, and if he became Catholic his Deacon position would remain, and there would be nothing to stop him from continuing into the Catholic priesthood. God bless
Shakespeare's 'Macbeth' is, among other things, a brilliant coded commentary on the draconian oppression of Catholics and its inevitable though indefensible reaction in the Gunpowder Plot. For an explanation, see Clare Asquith's book 'Shadowplay'.
I often think on the Catholic Churchs' relationship to those Lutherans who have remained faithful to their principles and remained 'orthodox and faithful' to their Christian tenets. Its wonderfully ironic how close we are now considering we had called for each others blood in that great separation.
🎉There is no such thing as the ," Old Catholic" Church. THEY are wannabe Catholics, unwilling to pay the price. ITS disgusting and no true Catholic should give them the time of day. We need to find out WHO in the Vatican decided it was a good idea to recognize some of their so called Orders and so called Sacraments. ITS a disgrace. IT NEEDS TO BE OVERTURNED.
Just one minor clarification on a point of doctrine. Now, when I was at school, at about the age of seven, I can remember learning from the Catechism [Question] “Is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass a re enactment of the Sacrifice of Calvary?” [Answer] “No, the Sacrifice of the Mass is not a re enactment of the Sacrifice of Calvary. It is the same sacrifice as that of the Cross.” This was part of the Catechism so that Catholics could refute the accusation made by Protestants that Catholics believe that Jesus dies again on the Altar at a Catholic Mass. Jesus does not die on the Altar during the Mass. He died once and for all, as the one perfect sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins, on the Cross. The Mass makes this sacrifice real and present, but it is the same sacrifice as that of the Cross, not a re enactment of the death of Jesus at Calvary. Gavin does not quite make this clear. Sometimes converts are eager to stress, possibly, sometimes, to over stress, the fullness of Catholic truth, but that truth does not extend to an assertion that Jesus dies on the Altar at each and every Mass. It is a fine distinction, I know, however, the Catechism from which I was taught (abolished, of course, as has been so much that was good in the Church) did go to great lengths to ensure that Catholics were aware exactly what the Church did, and did not, teach, as far as the nature of the sacrifice of the Mass is concerned.
I am not Catholic but always thought it was a "re-presentation" of the original sacrifice of the cross, not Christ dying again each time. That's how the distinction was explained to me anyway.
@@littleboots9800 The Catechism used to state “it is the same sacrifice as that of the Cross” (made real again) but not a re enactment of the sacrifice of Calvary, which was a once and for all sacrifice which is not repeated again at Mass. I suppose that “re presentation” does convey the same meaning as “the same sacrifice as that of the Cross”.
@@Mark3ABE yeah, it's a little unclear, which is not what is desirable in regards to a theological issue of such importance and dispute I suppose. The priest did impress upon me that it was the same sacrifice that is being presented each time, not a new sacrifice or the same sacrifice being 'repeated' each time. The catechism always struck me as a very good idea, that could be taught from, memorised, referred to throughout ones life when needed.
Thank you Dr Gavin for this video🙏 I had already seen the Calvin Marshall video and wondered by Dr Taylor hadn't asked two questions: - Do you believe in the Real Presence of the Blessed Sacrament? and if so, - Why aren't you Roman Catholic?
@@royquick-s5n Deliberately describing oneself in a manner that may cause confusion is immoral. Claiming holy orders in the Catholic church without authority is reprehensible.
Thank you Dr Gavin! Absolutely outstanding and needed explanation. I heard the entire interview and found myself perplexed many times. Ultimately, I believe you have hit the nail on the head. Fr. Calvin simply does not feel comfortable enough at the time to cross the Tiber (though PF is probably not helping him)...regardless he will need to see Christ and his authority behind the lone One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church He established regardless of the failure of any of its present-day ministers.
@@anthonythomas1504 it seems he has been ordained validly yet illicitly very similar to an ordained Orthidox priest hence you can still call him Father.
Thank you, this is wonderful! I listened to Taylor's interview with Calvin, he sounded very intellectual and very protestant. He knows better then Jesus. I'm in SC and on my street alone there are 2 house churches, and 2 small churches, one in a trailer.
One admires Calvin’s desire for the priesthood but we can ask does he desires this to serve God or to serve Calvin ? My impression of CR is that he is unlikely to be successful in pastoral work. He can sound impressive but he fails to connect. Also, he seems unlikely to learn anything about himself and to change course when necessary. Gavin is admirably gracious and fair in his assessment. Gavin also mentions in passing the obliteration of centres of prayer, the monasteries and convents, during the English reformation. The removal of these conduits of grace was devastating. Not many see that.
@@HenryLeslieGrahamTo be fair that is an regular handling by Catholic, like Olympic opening sceen i saw more Catholic praying for the forgiveness because they became angry rather than pray for justice to be dealt.
I am a lifelong Catholic who left the Novus Ordo for traditional rite when the bishops ran from the flu and restricted the Sacraments. I'm middle aged and learning my faith for the first time. This video is VERY good.
What a superb history lesson, Dr Ashenden. Many many thanks. My grandmother, a convert, used to quote the blasphemous fables bit, and call our lovely medieval cathedrals stolen property. Good for her !
Such an information dense and enlightening talk, so much food for thought here. This English convert to the Roman Catholic Church thanks you so much 🙏🏻 It has been my greatest hope, these past few years, that England will find her way back to true Christianity (which is only Catholic), claim the inheritance that heretics violently stripped from her hundreds of years ago and do her part to restore Christendom whereby His will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. 🤍
I happen to be reading through John Henry Newman’s Loss and Gain. Much of it goes over my head, but your analysis at the beginning clarified some things. Thank you!
A “catholic” is a member of Christ’s church. Such a man has true belief in Christ and is saved. He may be found in a Roman church, an Eastern church, an Anglican church, a Lutheran church, etc. These are the believers saved by Christ’s Paschal Sacrifice and written into the God’s Book of Life. You mean a “Roman” or “Roman Catholic”. While Rome does try to claim the word “catholic”, this ignores the fact that the East also claims this title. They are after all, the Orthodox Catholic Church and have been since the Great Schism in 1054. As such, Rome too must qualify it’s use of “catholic”. With this knowledge, it should also be no surprise that Calvin Robinson, ordained into the Nordic Catholic Church, would also not only use the term “catholic”, but also qualifies it. This is the same reason most confessing Evangelicals (Lutherans, not the radical reformers who stole the term) will also tell you they are the historical continuation of the Medieval Catholic Church cleansed by the Gospel. No, Rome doesn’t have exclusive right to the use of “catholic”. It does, however, have the exclusive right to the use of “Roman Catholic”.
@stephenkneller6435, 😂😂😂 I beg to differ and so does St Ignatuis! I could sit and sleep in my garage every day , that doesn’t make me a car”🚗 😂😂😂 you are rather under Rome and the Holy Seat of Peter or you’re not.
@stephenkneller6435, 😂😂😂 king Henry tried to upsurp the word Catholic for himself, and so he was the one who started the “Roman” stuff . He wanted a Church that he could commit adultery in, give me a break. Before Catholic means Universal, it means “According to the Whole.” The Only Catholics are under the Pope. 🙏🏻
I was ordained a Catholic priest in the Finnish Malobar Free Presbyterian Nordic Swahili Church of Northern Vermont. We are too Catholics! And you better not say any different! And don't listen to those Southern Vermonters!
I was ordained into the Priesthood of the East Cheam Old Catholic Church, based at 23 Railway Cuttings, East Cheam by the late Anthony Hancock. Hattie Jacques laid on a first rate tea after the ceremony.
Oriental and Eastern Orthodox churches don’t recognise the authority of the RC pope, so according to Gavin’s logic Orthodox Christians are schismatics and heretics too, yet the RC church allows Orthodox Christian’s to commune and RC mass! Like most in the RC church he’s muddleheaded on this matter. Id like to pin him down in this matter because he seems to be avoiding addressing this matter.
I do often wonder how the Episcopal vegans (wandering bishops) in the Thuc and other lines……how do they advertise their services and their ‘stipend’ required for ordination. So as not to commit the sin of simony.
I am a big fan of Robinson, but it is a bit of a shame that he has not fully embraced the Catholic Church. You gave an interesting talk on the history Anglican Church. I have an even greater appreciation of your love for religious Freedom. You even mentioned near the beginning of your talk that there is a cost to becoming Catholic. As a cradle Catholic, I did not have to pay the cost myself. However, my mother paid a somewhat of a price for getting me Baptized, which is why I treasure my religious freedom here in the United States ever since I moved here.
There is always a cost to being a faithful orthodox Catholic on any level. But in God we trust, we need to embrace our crosses as Jesus did. We all need to be properly catechised, and then so many things become clear.
You are so correct. The dissolution of the monasteries destroyed the social welfare net for the poor. The common people, the nobility and the merchants all believed that some reform of the church was needed as the result of individual corruption, but no one believed for a second that Henry was doing anything other than filling his purse. The result was the Lincolnshire Rising and the Pilgrimage of Grace and other smaller rebellions. In the end and due heavily to Cranmer, they received a muddled collection of Catholic bits and Calvinism presided over by Roman vestment wearing ministers. The continued fracturing of the Anglican community could have been predicted when you can have high church, low church and finally broad church. The lack of a magisterium and submission to authority paved the way for today's total Anglican mess and departures.
Thank you for that, I was struck by the historical background and the depth of explanation. I went to bed last night with thoughts of the great example of intellectual integrity based in truth. I can take some lesson from this in my own efforts.
The Roman Catholic parish in our university city joined with all the Protestant groups last year by hanging the Pride flag from the church organ. Only the Anglo Catholic group refused to participate. Guess whose building was defaced.
Brilliant! I had a lot of time for Calvin until he went searching for priesthood as a personal goal. He should, like you, Gavin, embrace the true Church as a layman and let the Church discern his vocation. He should, like you have, pay the price.
"letting the Church discern your vocation" sounds great in theory, but the Church has ordained thousands of abusive pedophiles and heretics, and passed over many very devout holy men who would have been a tremendous blessing to the Church.
Very interesting and this overview joins a few dots for me. I will continue to pray for him as my brother in Christ. I pray he will find the fullness of the faith that he is obviously searching for…
"For myself, I found my own most pregnant evidence in the work of the divines of the Anglican Church; their prayer-books and their *articles* ; and in the visible influence which they had ever had upon the high places of the Establishment, in favour of the truths, which I saw to be true. These were the means by which Providence had led me on, from the beginning to the end, to find a present refuge from absolute religious scepticism, and a bulwark against error." St John Henry Newman, Apologia.
Thank you for describing how Calvin acted as a deacon. I was a bit shocked that he called himself Father before being priested. In my opinion, honesty and integrity means that a person teaches the values and beliefs that are upheld by the institution that employs that person.
Don’t we call deacons Father? I do, I’ve never been corrected yet. As for Calvin - agreed. If you go low church Protestant then you should do low church Protestantism
Mary Tudor gets a bad rap, and rightly so, one does not go around burning people with whom one has theological disagreements. However for context Mary had approximately 300 executed, Elizabeth I 600, and their father Henry VIII 37,000 of his fellow countrymen from a population of around 3 million.
If she hadn't died the figure would have been higher. Religion and politics did mix the Armada was sent to get rid of Elizabeth and return England to the Roman Catholic religion
@@margaretdefrias698 Both Mary and Elizabeth were victims of circumstance beyond their control in many ways, neither having a free hand in affairs of state. The same cannot be said for their father. Tudor propaganda has been mixed with monarchy, law and religious observance ever since.
@margaretdefrias698 Philip of Spain opposed Mary's burnings. And the Armada was sent in large part out of anger at the activities of Sir Francis Drake, who liked to present his Queen with lovely plunder.
Dr Scott Hahn, a Catholic theologian and a Christian apologist, who was Protestant Minister who has taken on a Catholic teaching role after becoming a Catholic.
Calvin is. now displaying what I felt was true of him, but did not want to be true: I think Calvin is a self promoting person, who uses the name of Christ for his own selfish and egotistical ends. Gives me no joy as a Catholic to say this. Let's pray for Calvin.
As a convert from Protestant ordained ministry, which included a brief dalliance with the ECUSA, I can understand Calvin’ s confusion. In many ways, it was a gift of grace for me to finally understand that simply believing in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, doesn’t mean that Jesus is present in the Eucharist outside of the Catholic mass. You have to accept fully the instrument for the delivery of the Eucharist which God designed, namely the Catholic Church and her priests. The same can be said of holy orders. In time I pray that God will lead Calvin through his own confusion into the light of Christ , which will far outshine his own intellect, and indeed transform it.
45:59 It's a perfectly valid and Catholic position, that an office holder, even if he be Pope, would lose office immediatly on starting to preach heresy. This was not defined in the Vatican Council, but it stands in the minutiae of the council proceedings.
Thank you for reading the document of Pope Leo XIII (forgive me if I got the number incorrect here). I greatly appreciate hearing the reasoning verbatim. I had heard of it, but only the outline, as follows: Anglican, and therefore American Episcopalian ordination was invalid because the wording of the Ordination Rite was altered to be made ineffective, and by the time the wording was changed again to try to bring it back into line with the Apostolic ordination, all the successors to the Apostles were dead, and so the line went extinct in the Anglican Church.
I did like the reference to Eamon Duffy. It was like hearing about an old friend. He helped me understand the revolutionary nature of the Reformation in England.
Diarmaid MacCulloch has done an even better job of demolishing the Anglo-Catholic theory of the Reformation. Christopher Haigh in "The Reformation Revised" is even more deadly.Neither of them are Catholics. Robinson seems to me to be in the footsteps of the episcopi vagantes.
I am impressed with Calvin Robinson's defense of basic Christian truths, but he remains Protestant in his flitting from denomination to denomination to be called "Fr." Same problem with his friend Fr. Brett Murphy, who started life as a baptized Roman Catholic! Thanks for your excellent analysis.
as always education from a beautifully enlightened former lost soul who came home after by the grace of God saw the light and now shines it bright graciously
I once met Calvin Robinson (in his Afro days), and he was distinctly underwhelming, although very tall!. Maybe he means well. But these days The Church needs more theologists, spirituality, and less do-goodery. The Catholic Church should be a bastion and fortress, and it's priests truly of The Apostolic Succession. People need this, and they WILL come to a fully authentic Catholic Church and not some waterered down ecumenical mish-mash, or Chrislam, or whatever else Francis proposes (may the Holy Spirit help him please). Anglo Catholics seem to have (whatever their personal discernment or sense of vocation) a rather lower level of spiritual development. Maybe it's the secular culture we live in. Although there exists a hunger for traditional practice and that itself may draw those whose understanding is superficial. Many converts not raised in the culture, seem lacking in deep spiritual DNA. And some just love the cosplay!!
Excellent summary of Dr. Marshall's interview. The Synodal Modernist Church mirrors the errors and rise of the Anglican church in my opinion. In the same way the Mass of the Ages is being suppressed, although a lot less bloddy.
What we are dealing with here, is a problem for the entire Church (including the Orthodox part). We are dealing with 'CHURCHIANITY'; which is not the same thing as following Jesus of Nazareth in his teachings and his actions. The Eucharist is instituted toward the end of Jesus' life; and well after his care for the poor and damaged. Notice the appeal, here, to institutional authority: even grounding that authority in God, himself. Richard Holloway, in his autobiography, 'LEAVING ALEXANDRIA', scrutinises the Anglo-Catholic tradition (to which he belonged), and notices two flaws: one nostalgic (hinted-at in what you say here, Gavin); but then he continues "If reaching into the past to ransack its wardrobe and props was relatively harmless, the second flaw in the Anglo-Catholic movement was more serious. This was its lack of interest in the future as a source of new inspiration, and an absolute refusal to believe any good could come from it" (p 234). I think Richard Holloway could have included the 'present' here, not merely the 'future': and this is a flaw which could be aimed at the entire Church. It is as though "the mighty works of God" ceased with the designation of some ancient texts as 'scripture'. Of course, the irony is that Holloway concludes that God is, indeed, absent: to the loss of his own faith. With regard to the Articles of the Church of England, remember the religious ferment in which they were forged. Remember the quality of 'Catholicism' against which Luther, Zwingli and Calvin were arguing: as well as the 'quality' of their Protestantism. Both bore more resemblance to the way in which Islam has always been practised, than to a faith derived from that young male Jew, two thousand years ago. And the cause of this collossal mis-step on the part of the entire Church? Why.....worship of texts, rather than the God they are intending to help toreveal. We forgot, "the Sabbath is made for man: not man for the Sabbath."
Will Catholics who can. Get to Speakers Corner in London join me to proclaim the Glory of Christ in His One and Holy Catholic, Church, this coming Sunday 16 June. I feel ill equipped for such a task and so ask my Brothers and Sisters in Christ to Join me
SO very interesting. What a profound lesson about the inability to escape the consequences of past actions. And I am very grateful to now understand exactly why there is no such thing as an Anglican priest.
I think Calvin has alot of tension in him and he is very keen to do the right thing. But sadly, it seems his tension and stress from all his battles has him running ahead of Christ as it were.
Careful if you are Roman Catholic. You accuse the Protestants of such crimes which yes the protestant church has become problematic for the faith in general, But not in all areas. You can accuse other churches of such things but the Catholic church tries to share the claim of being the first. The Orthodox church wants to ask you about the Filoque. The Pride and Hubris in the Catholic church believing it is the ONE TRUE CHURCH, is disgusting as the claim cannot be proven and such arguements go against the body of christ, which is us Christians. “Orthodox” church hasn't changed anything in terms of dogma or tradition since the 12th century when the schism took place. On the other hand, the “Catholic" church has made changes on some aspects like: Added the infallible of the pope (dogma-wise) Changed the Nicene Creed (center dogma of belief statement) concerning the Holy Spirit back and forth, a couple of times, by three distinct infallible Popes Got more focused on the birth of Christ rather than the resurrection Changed the community only for bread/body and not wine/blood for laics Prohibited the marriage of the priests And that's just for starters. Theoretically speaking, the “Orthodox” church now is like the “Orthodox” church on the 11th century which was like the “Catholic Church” on the 11th century which has many differences with the “Catholic” after the Schism. The question is not “Which one is older?” but “Which one is unchanged, dogma and tradition wise.” Catholics are Schismatic enough without pointing the finger at Good Men. To prove the claims of the Catholic church we would need proof of the line of apostolic succession, Good luck with that.
Interesting. I know many of those who are searching for the “true Church” who have found their home in the Orthodox Church. However, for most, there is a practical problem. The Orthodox Churches are national churches, so, to find one, you need to find a large city with a large Greek, Serbian, Bulgarian etc community, which has its own local national Orthodox Church to serve that community. However, to join that Church an English Christian would need to make a serious effort to try to “fit in” with people of a very different national and ethnic background. Then, in the smaller towns and cities, there is, quite simply, no question of “joining the Orthodox Church” because there isn’t one to join! In an ideal Church there would be a genuinely “English Orthodox Church” with its own English Patriarch in communion with the other Orthodox Patriarchs. King Henry VIII did envisage something along these lines - a national English Church governed by its own Bishops, in loose communion with other national Churches. However, he severed all communion with Rome. The Eastern Orthodox Churches would probably accept that the Bishop of Rome is also Patriarch of Rome - in fact, the Pope has recently chosen to adopt the title of “Western Patriarch” and to repudiate the title “Vicar of Christ” in an effort to please the Eastern Orthodox Churches. Gavin will find himself in a similar position in the English Catholic Church. There are very few “Old English Catholics” (descendants of the old recusant families). Most Catholics in this country are Catholics because they are not of English ancestry - Irish, Polish, Italian, Spanish, etc. and these days often immigrants from the various parts of the world having large Catholic populations. The local Catholic Church, in most small towns and cities, sits in contrast to the local Church of England, which now occupies prize of place, having confiscated what was once the local Catholic Church. The modern Catholic Church is, generally, a 1960s building on the outskirts of the town or city. Will we ever have an “English Orthodox” Church. I rather doubt it.
someone asked in the comments "When did the Catholic Church become a Roman franchise?". To me the response is in 68 AD, when Peter was crucified in Rome.
A friend shared this with me and it is absolutely fabulous! I have not watched much of Calvin, but I suspect he has fallen victim to the same thing that strikes many spiritual leaders. Pride. I used to watch Taylor Marshall (who notably helped start the Troops of St George in response to the issues w the Boy Scouts of America), but it appears once there was a fawning audience and a monetary stream the tone switched to the dramatic and controversial. When Calvin decides to follow God's will instead of his own, he may step down from the fence he chooses to sit on.
Gavin: Thanks so much and God bless you for your erudition and pastoral gentleness during these bizarre & exasperating times!! Is there anyway you could comment on groups such as the SSPX & Old Romans? Thanks so much!! Chris Bates Ithaca, NY USA
I am a big fan of Calvin Robinson's. We need his sharp intellect in the Catholic Church. I pray every day he'll find his way to the Church. In the meantime, I very much enjoy listening to him when I have the chance.
Gavin. Thank you. I knew him when I think we were both less mature and advanced in our Christian Faith. There is a real, genuine danger in the groundless posturing of the "Anglo-Catholics" - imposture which, I think sometimes deliberately, is intended to obfuscate and cause ecclesial confusion. This was a near perfect defence. When I get into such arguments and discussions, there is a temptation to feel harsh in our contemporary culture. So please don't Gavin. But as we know, the devil thrives in the grey areas and he first makes you doubt truth and goodness before he makes you act against them. This form of Protestant quasi-Catholicism certainly performs the first part of this procedure - and whether it be sincerely mistaken in infallible ignorance or with other ulterior liberté, egalité, fraternité or "no politics or religion at the lodge" motivations acts as a mouthpiece for the serpent, separating souls from their true home and intended destination. What you have said shows a genuine concern for Calvin, and not a desire for a mere peaceable and conflict-free life. Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
Genuine question from ex-atheist and someone exploring Catholicism: Did Mr Ashenden not adhere to the very church he criticises, for many, many years? And if so was he not aware of these arguments at the time? ( I refer to the opening remarks - I'm not interested in the C. Robinson analysis)
14:37 Speaking of the two Cecils, what do you think of the Inkling Lord Cecil? Was he a bad influence on C. S. Lewis keeping him back from Rome? Was he a restraining influence on J. R. R. Tolkien, helping to keep him out of Apologetics?
Dr. Ashenden, I think that many of your are criticisms are absolutely valid, Fr. C. won't see them yet, I pray that he does. I have prayed for him to be received into the Church. It would be my hope that perhaps he might pursue priesthood. But that would place him under authority. I have to wonder if that is the problem he's having in the end
🙏Bless you Gavin I love Calvin and find him confused vulnerable autistic soul looking for a right support and direction- church laws and structure is indeed complex and very complicated I pray for him as his work absolutely essential now💖💖💖✝ hope he’s coming back to GB and continue his conversations here at homeland🙏✨
Every baptised Catholic has an essential dignity, as a member of “a holy nation, a royal priesthood, a people set apart”. This concept of a “universal priesthood” is, of course, entirely different from the concept as understood by Protestants. While only those validly ordained to the Presbyterate have the fullness of the Priesthood, nevertheless, every baptised Catholic does share in the Priesthood of Christ. For example, in cases of necessity, any baptised Catholic who is in a state of grace may administer the sacrament of Baptism - possibly the most important of the sacraments, since it makes the recipient a new creation and admits him to the Catholic Church and to salvation. To go even further, administered at the point of death, with the recipient having the right intention, it means the difference between eternal damnation in Hell and eternal joy in Heaven. Today, we have a number of Catholic lay people who exercise a very valuable teaching ministry within the Church. I won’t name those I particularly admire, because a list of some might exclude others equally valuable to the Church. They lecture (or have lectured) at Catholic universities and have a wide public platform. Of course, Gavin is amongst their number. He does not refer to himself as a Priest, since he has not been ordained into the Presbyterate of the Catholic Church and it would be misleading for him to use this title, even though he did have this title, as well as that of Bishop, in the Church of England. Is Gavin’s ministry any less effective just because he serves the Church as part of the universal priesthood of all baptised Catholics (as properly understood in the Catholic Church)? In my view, no. If he were ordained into the Presbyterate he would immediately become subject to a Diocesan Bishop, who would be free to impose whatever restrictions he wished on Gavin, even to the point of insisting that he remain completely silent on the current issues affecting the Catholic Church. One of the accepted charisms within the Church, as listed by St. Paul, is that of “Teacher”. That is the charism which Gavin is currently exercising in the Catholic Church.
It is sometimes interesting to speculate. Let us suppose that I was born in about 600 and lived in Constantinople. As far as I would be concerned, the Emperor would be responsible for the overall temporal good of the Church and the Patriarch would be responsible for pastoral care. If a dispute about a point of doctrine were to arise, I should expect the Emperor to call an Ecumenical Council and for him to summon all of the Bishops from all over the world to attend the Council. The Bishop of Rome would attend, either in person, or by a representative. At the end of the Council, it would report to the Emperor who would accept its report. Then, in the exercise of his Petrine Ministry of “confirming the brethren in the Faith” the Bishop of Rome would give his formal approval to the dogmatic definitions of the Council. So, at that time, I would, of course, be a genuine catholic, orthodox Christian, but the Bishop of Rome would not be involved in any way in the oversight and management of the Church to which I belonged. We have those who say that “outside the Church there is no salvation” and insist that this means being a member of a Church under the direct, day to day, administrative supervision of the Bishop of Rome. However, as a Christian living in Constantinople in 600 AD, this option would not have been available to me. I would have understood the Church as consisting of the Bishops, the Emperor and, in terms of day to day administrative responsibility, the Patriarch. So, the question arises “was I saved?”. Was I part of the Church, outside of which there is no salvation?
As an ex Anglo Catholic you have summarised everything that is wrong with it. I felt this almost from day one of my entry into Anglicanism from a life as an atheist. Like many, not knowing much about the Church, I had this view that somehow Anglicanism was a half way house between the Catholic Church and doing your own thing! For many Anglicans the "doing your own thing" side wins because it lets them contracept, be homosexuals, divorce, remarry, have abortions, euthanise the sick and elderly, and believe whatever you want. However, if you actually look at Scripture and Church history you find that Our Lord Jesus Christ established His Church upon the Rock of Peter. This Church - and only this Church - is the one stablished by Our Lord, none other. This Church, and only this Church, has unchanged teachings on contraception, homosexuality, divorce, remarriage, abortion, euthanasia of the sick and elderly, and many many other issues, for which we are NOT entitled to make up our own minds. Anglo Catholicism is a failed experiment, a pathetic attempt to try and have some of the glories of Catholicism with no submission to the real authority given us by Jesus. There is One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Join it or just stay out and be your own pope in your own church and travel on your merry way to Hell.
Dr Ashenden, Calvin reminds me a bit of myself when younger and discerning whether to go into ministry (initially as a Methodist but then thinking about Anglo-Catholic orders). I paid the price and gave it up to the Lord when I entered into the Ordinariate here in Australia and am happy as a layman in my vocation as a husband and ordinary run of the mill Christian. I have some sympathy for Calvin but I too have the same view as you in the end.
Wow! This is a masterclass at how to critique a friend or at least someone you genuinely care for and respect. This needed to be said as it is such a serious issue and his large platform could lead many souls astray. Thank you! Will continue to pray for your ministry and for Calvin’s full conversion to the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church!
Bergoglionis the one leading souls astray.
We KNEW this was inside of you! Jolly Good to see you express Christs Charity and Mercy as Truth! The Gospel is often times a tough pill to swallow. Thank you for caring for Calvins soul as apparently no one else has had the courage and love to do so! God Bless you 🙏 ❤
I have SO MUCH respect for Calvin's courage and speaking, and much of what he says (as a former "Anglo-Catholic" myself) resonates and I find myself sympathizing with. BUT I have come to the Catholic Church (Confirmed in April) to experience the fullness of Christianity and a relationship with Christ, and looking back now after a conversion process that was lengthy (many years), painful (cost me dear friendships and still risks some of my family relationships), and messy, I can see so plainly that sincerely striving for the historic, living Christian faith could have led nowhere other than to the Catholic Church. Based in Rome. Under the Pope in communion with the worldwide bishops. I hope that Calvin finds his way home too.
Your Pope venerated the thanks. demon goddess. No thanks.
Your barking up the wrong tree, come and join us at the only true Church of Christ, The Holy Orthodox Church.
Ill include you in my prayers 🙏☦️
@@BillSikes. But which one? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Moscow%E2%80%93Constantinople_schism
@@TheUltimateUSCFan
The Assyrian! We're the original Church!
@@BillSikes. Would all the other Orthodox Christians agree with that?
As a new catholic convert, thank you for such a concise explanation of the interview. When I watched it, and was confused by Calvin's answers, I thought my lack of knowledge was the issue not him.
I too was confused and switched off early from the attitude as well as cigar clouds.
@@ShirleyShirley-t5f I have always liked listening to Calvin but that interview with Taylor Marshall changed my mind somewhat. I thought Calvin came across as rather 'full of himself'. He didn't listen and his answers were too quick and without sufficient thought. The cigar smoke really annoyed me. So yes, the attitude was my biggest complaint. very disappointing.
You appear to be expecting a lot of your audience intellectually in your current crop of lectures, they seemed to be pitched higher than former ones, and you seem to be happier for giving yourself a free reign to express your personal ideas and to range across many fields of knowledge and cite multiple sources.
This is exhilarating to listen to, very challenging in a positive way. Please carry on being emboldened to share your unique point of view with full vigour.
Thank you Veronica 🙏
Agreed.
Agreed too. We don't want dumbed down
Yes, I agree with the rigor.
Nothing wrong with going for a long walk and having to exercise your legs. Nothing wrong with listening to a reasoned argument, and having to stretch your mind.
This is one of your best Gavin. You speak the truth!
I was so hoping that you would address this interview because you are uniquely qualified to do so. Thank you for bringing the historical, as well as the theological and ecclesial perspectives which are anything but ‘cosmetic’!
Check for accuracy, especially in the history department, compatibility with Vatican II on Anglicanism, and compare what Gavin said on Apostolicae Curae with the easy to read publication INRALLIBLE FALLACIES (London: S.P.C.K., 1953).
As always, you speak the truth with love, as scripture says. You have such a gracious spirit in your conversation. Thank you, especially for the exhortation to "pay the price, it's worth it." And also the reminder to defend the Church in these trying times. God bless you and please continue to teach us and encourage us in our faith. To God be the glory. 🙏🏻
the best podcaster in youtube. finally a precise speaker
Thank you so much, Doctor Ashenden. This conversation was a brilliant and charitable examination of Calvin Robinson and the paucity of Anglican Protestantism. Calvin Robinson needs to enter the faith and some Bishop needs to reach out to him. God bless and sustain you.
Maybe he knows too much, although he accepts discussion, will he grow in faith?
Thank you so much, Dr. Ashenden, for this insightful presentation. Calvin Robinson has been a puzzle to many of us in recent times. While I appreciate his clearly fervent Christianity, and his public defense of the faith during the crises of this modern era, I have been concerned that his - how can I call it - liturgical laxity - will in the end cause harm where it didn't need to and weaken his position. We are all evolving as Christians. My prayer is that CR will heed the wisdom you have presented here, make the sacrifice, and embrace the one holy Catholic faith completely.
That was superb and thank you for it. Calvin appears to be a man of good will but also appears very mixed up as you pointed out. He simply wishes to go his own way rather than submit his intellect and will to the Church. I watched his interview with Taylor Marshall but had to switch off after he made a number of ridiculous assertions. Perhaps he will enter the Church, even though it is led by men who bring shame on it. The Church is still the Church of the Saints and bears the four marks that distinguish it from all others.
Maybe it's comment like this that bring shame on the church.
@@KitiwakeHow?
@@afterlate8866 Calvin made the ridiculous claims about his orders being valid in the Catholic church which is patently untrue yet he projects himself as a godly follower of Christ. To possess valid Orders places oneself squarely as a church member.
Marshall is infamous for his his rabid denunciation of Pope Francis.
If you watch his interview with Calvin recently he reveals how his failed bid to organize a foundation under McCarrick was rejected on the watch of pope Francis.
Unfortunately, Dr. Gavin, whom I and many others admire, allies himself with TM.
So, they are sad reflections on the church.
Marshall is just stating facts, just like many many Priest all over the world who disapprove Pope Francis action. Heck even Ralph Martin has something to say against the Pope on how he is steering it towards confusion. Cure your Taylor Marshall syndrome, its not him, its the Pope.
@@KitiwakeNothing of the sort. Gerardbrady drives home a point well put, and well taken.
Wow, such a gem your channel is!
I have subscribed!
Thank you 🙏
What an excellent explanation of so many key issues. As an American, I learned a great deal and came away deeply impressed by the combination of clarity and charity on Gavin’s part.
As a person who has seen this issue and have gone through the stages from being so called Anglo-Catholic to now going on this long and painful journey to Rome through the Ordinariate, I was so blessed to hear this analysis. God bless you.
@Sp00kMa5ter, It is worth it my friend! Stay the Course! Eyes on the Eucharist!❤️🙏🏻
Henry's distribution of the assets of the monastic houses to his friends probably sealed England's fate because it gave the most powerful people of England a vested interest in supporting Protestantism. The restoration of Catholicism would have put them and the government under enormous pressure to see that those assets were returned.
Yes - King Henry VIII was a master politician. His father, King Henry VII was extremely unpopular, because he was a greedy man who spent most of his reign confiscating property and taxing his subjects up to the limit. His son was, in the early years of his reign, extremely popular, because he reversed this process. Queen Katherine was also extremely popular - while Henry was fighting in France, she led an English army against Scotland, displaying the military prowess inherited from her parents, Ferdinand and Isabella. It could all have ended so much better. All that Henry needed to do was to do what King Henry I had done - persuade the Nobles to agree that his daughter should inherit the Throne on his death. While it did not work for King Henry I (the Nobles repudiated their agreement to accept the Empress Mathilda as their Sovereign) it might well have worked for King Henry VIII.
I'm not condoning Henry's use of Monastic funds for war mongering but we have to remember why the Monasteries were so rich in the first place. Playing on peoples' fears about the after life and garnering monies from indulgences, pilgrimages and relics (most of them dubious) brought in huge wealth. Quite simply, God had had enough. The corruption of Rome was at an unprecedented level and the Reformation was inevitable.
@@clivejames5058 Whereas Henry and those who received the assets of the monasteries were motivated by high ideals? What high ideals? Was it to reform the monasteries? If so, how does closing something down "reform" it? It doesn't. The monasteries were where Henry VIII's most effective opposition came from. He needed to destroy them and he used the pretext of their supposedly uniquely high levels of corruption to do so. He gave Protestant-friendly nobility the assets in order to buy their complicity or at least acquiescence in his designs. Once having been bought-off they needed to support Protestantism and the propaganda he invented to "justify" the asset seizure.
@@clivejames5058the winners write the history but then there is nowadays Eamon Duffy to set the record straight!
Alas, yes.
Dr. Ashenden my repect for you grows with every listen. Thank you.
Praise God
I've listened to this commentary twice now and want to thank Gavin for insight and analysis. Even though I am Catholic I hadn't understood the 39 articles and am actually rather shocked at the venom contained within them.
They were devised by me men who hated everything about the Catholic Church.
A stretch of Tim 3:16 which if read by any common sense person patently does not declare that is all one needs.
I'll never forget hearing about Gareth Bennett's demise.
Keep praying for Calvin, I'm sure he'll get home in the end ! Mr. Ashenden did !
I don’t remember them as venomous. Just wrong. The language isn’t that strong though
This is excellent! Thank you very much. May God bless you.
Very astute diagnosis of a reprobate construction such as Anglicanism.
I came back into the fold after skipping for 12 years in the angry desert of protest and becoming weary to despair unless I returned to receive Holy Communion this Easter Vigil where i find myself in Common Humanity again and so cheerful again praise Be to the name of the Lord.
We are in a real Culture battle and for sure do we need St Peter's posterity to embolden us against the Holy Ship's dodgy pilots and leaking hull.
May The Holy Spirit enable us to defend against the inner as well as the outer Wolves.
Pax Vobiscum Amen + .
What a very good article. Carry on doing articles and so forth.
Sending prayers and love, brother. 🙏
Thank you for this critique and historical explanation!
God bless you.
I will have to listen to this again. It was well worth it the first time. Perhaps only a former-Anglican (with such deep knowledge and a good intellect) could be so devastating about the Church of England. I don't know of any cradle Catholics who would have been able to have done the same. Having listened to you I think that many of us have been too charitable towards the Church of England.
Thanks for a wonderful video. While I have much admiration for Mr Robinson's courage in defending traditional values without counting the cost, I do respectfully agree with your conclusions concerning the possible disingenuity of his position as to his relationship and standing with the One True Faith. He is clearly NOT a Catholic but if he continues to falsely argue otherwise, then he will have only succeeded in re-Protestantise himself and create the 450,000th Protestant denomination!
Wow, wow, wow. Have never heard these articles before. This explains so much. Thank you!
Thank you for your excellent research and superb talk. Much more interesting and informative than the Robinson/Marshall interview.
Who is better? Calvin or your local gay Catholic priest? Father James Martin? Calvin could of gone very, very far in the CofE if he had just played the game. But he chose God. That is a lot braver than many, many 'faithful' people who call themselves Catholic but then try to bring in affirming theology into the Catholic Church.
I often wonder if Fr Calvin doesn't want to convert to Catholicism because he doesn't want to give up his media persona/public ministry. To convert may mean giving up the priesthood.
Yes, it seems likely.
That’s my guess. He also would have to give up having a family.
It is a very fine line between pride and humility.
Converting to Catholicism would not mean he would need to give up his public ministry, and if he became Catholic his Deacon position would remain, and there would be nothing to stop him from continuing into the Catholic priesthood. God bless
@@helenbond8893 You may want to ask Dr. Gavin Ashenden about this very thing.
Brilliant talk, full of truth, and I'm grateful for you posting it. Thank you. God bless and keep you.
Shakespeare's 'Macbeth' is, among other things, a brilliant coded commentary on the draconian oppression of Catholics and its inevitable though indefensible reaction in the Gunpowder Plot. For an explanation, see Clare Asquith's book 'Shadowplay'.
This Lutheran pastor at age 90 is very appreciative of your commentaries over the several years I have listened to you!
I often think on the Catholic Churchs' relationship to those Lutherans who have remained faithful to their principles and remained 'orthodox and faithful' to their Christian tenets. Its wonderfully ironic how close we are now considering we had called for each others blood in that great separation.
🎉There is no such thing as the ," Old Catholic" Church. THEY are wannabe Catholics, unwilling to pay the price. ITS disgusting and no true Catholic should give them the time of day. We need to find out WHO in the Vatican decided it was a good idea to recognize some of their so called Orders and so called Sacraments. ITS a disgrace. IT NEEDS TO BE OVERTURNED.
@@jamesshaw6455yet, Lutherans are not in the Church, and close doesn’t matter except in horseshoes and hand-grenades.
90 and comfortably active on social media..! 👏🏼 God bless you sir. Come home to the RCC. 🙏🏻
Good point about the 39 articles and the TLM.
Just one minor clarification on a point of doctrine. Now, when I was at school, at about the age of seven, I can remember learning from the Catechism [Question] “Is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass a re enactment of the Sacrifice of Calvary?” [Answer] “No, the Sacrifice of the Mass is not a re enactment of the Sacrifice of Calvary. It is the same sacrifice as that of the Cross.” This was part of the Catechism so that Catholics could refute the accusation made by Protestants that Catholics believe that Jesus dies again on the Altar at a Catholic Mass. Jesus does not die on the Altar during the Mass. He died once and for all, as the one perfect sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins, on the Cross. The Mass makes this sacrifice real and present, but it is the same sacrifice as that of the Cross, not a re enactment of the death of Jesus at Calvary. Gavin does not quite make this clear. Sometimes converts are eager to stress, possibly, sometimes, to over stress, the fullness of Catholic truth, but that truth does not extend to an assertion that Jesus dies on the Altar at each and every Mass. It is a fine distinction, I know, however, the Catechism from which I was taught (abolished, of course, as has been so much that was good in the Church) did go to great lengths to ensure that Catholics were aware exactly what the Church did, and did not, teach, as far as the nature of the sacrifice of the Mass is concerned.
I had the same Catechism.
Back when we memorized most of it!
I am not Catholic but always thought it was a "re-presentation" of the original sacrifice of the cross, not Christ dying again each time. That's how the distinction was explained to me anyway.
@@littleboots9800 The Catechism used to state “it is the same sacrifice as that of the Cross” (made real again) but not a re enactment of the sacrifice of Calvary, which was a once and for all sacrifice which is not repeated again at Mass. I suppose that “re presentation” does convey the same meaning as “the same sacrifice as that of the Cross”.
@@Mark3ABE yeah, it's a little unclear, which is not what is desirable in regards to a theological issue of such importance and dispute I suppose.
The priest did impress upon me that it was the same sacrifice that is being presented each time, not a new sacrifice or the same sacrifice being 'repeated' each time.
The catechism always struck me as a very good idea, that could be taught from, memorised, referred to throughout ones life when needed.
@@littleboots9800We need to absolutely bring it back. Catholics are poorly catechized these days.
Thank you Dr Gavin for this video🙏 I had already seen the Calvin Marshall video and wondered by Dr Taylor hadn't asked two questions:
- Do you believe in the Real Presence of the Blessed Sacrament? and if so,
- Why aren't you Roman Catholic?
@@royquick-s5n Deliberately describing oneself in a manner that may cause confusion is immoral.
Claiming holy orders in the Catholic church without authority is reprehensible.
I thought that you would have to ask those two questions too.
Thank you Dr Gavin! Absolutely outstanding and needed explanation. I heard the entire interview and found myself perplexed many times. Ultimately, I believe you have hit the nail on the head. Fr. Calvin simply does not feel comfortable enough at the time to cross the Tiber (though PF is probably not helping him)...regardless he will need to see Christ and his authority behind the lone One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church He established regardless of the failure of any of its present-day ministers.
Stop calling him father.
@@anthonythomas1504 it seems he has been ordained validly yet illicitly very similar to an ordained Orthidox priest hence you can still call him Father.
Thank you, this is wonderful! I listened to Taylor's interview with Calvin, he sounded very intellectual and very protestant. He knows better then Jesus. I'm in SC and on my street alone there are 2 house churches, and 2 small churches, one in a trailer.
One admires Calvin’s desire for the priesthood but we can ask does he desires this to serve God or to serve Calvin ? My impression of CR is that he is unlikely to be successful in pastoral work. He can sound impressive but he fails to connect. Also, he seems unlikely to learn anything about himself and to change course when necessary. Gavin is admirably gracious and fair in his assessment. Gavin also mentions in passing the obliteration of centres of prayer, the monasteries and convents, during the English reformation. The removal of these conduits of grace was devastating. Not many see that.
Let’s try not to psycho analyse people we don’t know personally
@@HenryLeslieGrahamVery good point! Thank you!Have subscribed to Your Channel! 🙌
@@HenryLeslieGrahamTo be fair that is an regular handling by Catholic, like Olympic opening sceen i saw more Catholic praying for the forgiveness because they became angry rather than pray for justice to be dealt.
I am a lifelong Catholic who left the Novus Ordo for traditional rite when the bishops ran from the flu and restricted the Sacraments.
I'm middle aged and learning my faith for the first time. This video is VERY good.
What a superb history lesson, Dr Ashenden. Many many thanks. My grandmother, a convert, used to quote the blasphemous fables bit, and call our lovely medieval cathedrals stolen property. Good for her !
Newman in Tract 90 tried to reconcile the Articles with the Decrees of the Council of Trent.
Such an information dense and enlightening talk, so much food for thought here. This English convert to the Roman Catholic Church thanks you so much 🙏🏻 It has been my greatest hope, these past few years, that England will find her way back to true Christianity (which is only Catholic), claim the inheritance that heretics violently stripped from her hundreds of years ago and do her part to restore Christendom whereby His will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. 🤍
Excellent!
I happen to be reading through John Henry Newman’s Loss and Gain. Much of it goes over my head, but your analysis at the beginning clarified some things. Thank you!
A “catholic” is a member of Christ’s church. Such a man has true belief in Christ and is saved. He may be found in a Roman church, an Eastern church, an Anglican church, a Lutheran church, etc. These are the believers saved by Christ’s Paschal Sacrifice and written into the God’s Book of Life.
You mean a “Roman” or “Roman Catholic”. While Rome does try to claim the word “catholic”, this ignores the fact that the East also claims this title. They are after all, the Orthodox Catholic Church and have been since the Great Schism in 1054. As such, Rome too must qualify it’s use of “catholic”.
With this knowledge, it should also be no surprise that Calvin Robinson, ordained into the Nordic Catholic Church, would also not only use the term “catholic”, but also qualifies it.
This is the same reason most confessing Evangelicals (Lutherans, not the radical reformers who stole the term) will also tell you they are the historical continuation of the Medieval Catholic Church cleansed by the Gospel.
No, Rome doesn’t have exclusive right to the use of “catholic”. It does, however, have the exclusive right to the use of “Roman Catholic”.
@stephenkneller6435, 😂😂😂 I beg to differ and so does St Ignatuis! I could sit and sleep in my garage every day , that doesn’t make me a car”🚗 😂😂😂 you are rather under Rome and the Holy Seat of Peter or you’re not.
@stephenkneller6435, 😂😂😂 king Henry tried to upsurp the word Catholic for himself, and so he was the one who started the “Roman” stuff . He wanted a Church that he could commit adultery in, give me a break. Before Catholic means Universal, it means “According to the Whole.” The Only Catholics are under the Pope. 🙏🏻
@@elizabethking5523 I heard that quote from Baptist minister Voddie Bauchman.
Thank you. I learned a lot. ❤
So did I.
Please can you post these talks on apple podcast, it would be incredible useful. Many thanks
Yes. Have just set up and posted the Jonathan Pageau conversation. Others, including this, coming shortly . Thank you
I was ordained a Catholic priest in the Finnish Malobar Free Presbyterian Nordic Swahili Church of Northern Vermont. We are too Catholics! And you better not say any different! And don't listen to those Southern Vermonters!
So you're in union with the Vatican per the Vatican?
I was ordained into the Priesthood of the East Cheam Old Catholic Church, based at 23 Railway Cuttings, East Cheam by the late Anthony Hancock. Hattie Jacques laid on a first rate tea after the ceremony.
Oriental and Eastern Orthodox churches don’t recognise the authority of the RC pope, so according to Gavin’s logic Orthodox Christians are schismatics and heretics too, yet the RC church allows Orthodox Christian’s to commune and RC mass! Like most in the RC church he’s muddleheaded on this matter. Id like to pin him down in this matter because he seems to be avoiding addressing this matter.
@@user-re2ss3jn8wI think that he’s in union with the Pope of Sarcasm.
I do often wonder how the Episcopal vegans (wandering bishops) in the Thuc and other lines……how do they advertise their services and their ‘stipend’ required for ordination. So as not to commit the sin of simony.
Thank you for the invitation, I prefer the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church from which Rome was cut off. In other words, Enas messed with the four...
I am a big fan of Robinson, but it is a bit of a shame that he has not fully embraced the Catholic Church. You gave an interesting talk on the history Anglican Church. I have an even greater appreciation of your love for religious Freedom. You even mentioned near the beginning of your talk that there is a cost to becoming Catholic. As a cradle Catholic, I did not have to pay the cost myself. However, my mother paid a somewhat of a price for getting me Baptized, which is why I treasure my religious freedom here in the United States ever since I moved here.
Have subscribed to Your Channel!
There is always a cost to being a faithful orthodox Catholic on any level. But in God we trust, we need to embrace our crosses as Jesus did. We all need to be properly catechised, and then so many things become clear.
You are so correct. The dissolution of the monasteries destroyed the social welfare net for the poor. The common people, the nobility and the merchants all believed that some reform of the church was needed as the result of individual corruption, but no one believed for a second that Henry was doing anything other than filling his purse. The result was the Lincolnshire Rising and the Pilgrimage of Grace and other smaller rebellions. In the end and due heavily to Cranmer, they received a muddled collection of Catholic bits and Calvinism presided over by Roman vestment wearing ministers. The continued fracturing of the Anglican community could have been predicted when you can have high church, low church and finally broad church. The lack of a magisterium and submission to authority paved the way for today's total Anglican mess and departures.
Thank you for that, I was struck by the historical background and the depth of explanation. I went to bed last night with thoughts of the great example of intellectual integrity based in truth. I can take some lesson from this in my own efforts.
A good insight, thanks for explaining. Laudate Dominum.
You gotta to pay the price but the Mass is priceless, amen to that sir.
The Roman Catholic parish in our university city joined with all the Protestant groups last year by hanging the Pride flag from the church organ. Only the Anglo Catholic group refused to participate. Guess whose building was defaced.
I suppose they refused because it would mean coming out. I’m sorry but the infamous homosexual reputation attached to the Anglo Catholics proceeds it
Brilliant! I had a lot of time for Calvin until he went searching for priesthood as a personal goal. He should, like you, Gavin, embrace the true Church as a layman and let the Church discern his vocation. He should, like you have, pay the price.
"letting the Church discern your vocation" sounds great in theory, but the Church has ordained thousands of abusive pedophiles and heretics, and passed over many very devout holy men who would have been a tremendous blessing to the Church.
It takes humility, and we all have to work on that.
Very interesting and this overview joins a few dots for me. I will continue to pray for him as my brother in Christ. I pray he will find the fullness of the faith that he is obviously searching for…
"For myself, I found my own most pregnant evidence in the work of the divines of the Anglican Church; their prayer-books and their *articles* ; and in the visible influence which they had ever had upon the high places of the Establishment, in favour of the truths, which I saw to be true. These were the means by which Providence had led me on, from the beginning to the end, to find a present refuge from absolute religious scepticism, and a bulwark against error."
St John Henry Newman, Apologia.
Thank you for describing how Calvin acted as a deacon. I was a bit shocked that he called himself Father before being priested. In my opinion, honesty and integrity means that a person teaches the values and beliefs that are upheld by the institution that employs that person.
Don’t we call deacons Father? I do, I’ve never been corrected yet. As for Calvin - agreed. If you go low church Protestant then you should do low church Protestantism
Thank you for the great information. God Bless 🙌 it's sad because evil is all around us.
We ALL have to read and learn who is JESUS CHRIST actually. Not what we think about Him, but WHO is He really and what He demands to us.
I'm glad someone called this out tbh.
Mary Tudor gets a bad rap, and rightly so, one does not go around burning people with whom one has theological disagreements. However for context Mary had approximately 300 executed, Elizabeth I 600, and their father Henry VIII 37,000 of his fellow countrymen from a population of around 3 million.
If she hadn't died the figure would have been higher.
Religion and politics did mix the Armada was sent to get rid of Elizabeth and return England to the Roman Catholic religion
@@margaretdefrias698 Both Mary and Elizabeth were victims of circumstance beyond their control in many ways, neither having a free hand in affairs of state. The same cannot be said for their father. Tudor propaganda has been mixed with monarchy, law and religious observance ever since.
@margaretdefrias698 Philip of Spain opposed Mary's burnings. And the Armada was sent in large part out of anger at the activities of Sir Francis Drake, who liked to present his Queen with lovely plunder.
@@alicepavey974looks like I need to read more about it any suggestions?
@@margaretdefrias698E Duffy has a good book on Mary Tudor's time. Protestants were very worried by the success of her religious policy.
This has been a most stimulating start to my morning here in the Southern Antipodes. God Bless, Dr Gavin.
How far South? Invercargill? Dunedin?
I was being inaccurate . It is really that big lump of an Island, AKA Australia.
Well done!
Dr Scott Hahn, a Catholic theologian and a Christian apologist, who was Protestant Minister who has taken on a Catholic teaching role after becoming a Catholic.
Calvin is. now displaying what I felt was true of him, but did not want to be true: I think Calvin is a self promoting person, who uses the name of Christ for his own selfish and egotistical ends. Gives me no joy as a Catholic to say this. Let's pray for Calvin.
As opposed to Marshall?
@@stephenjohnson7915 Apologies, what do you mean?
@@thecrazyenglishman1066 Have you watched or read his stuff from the past few years?
I think he started well but is now being buffeted by all sorts of forces. He needs prayers 🙏
Are you referring to the traditional tridentine Roman Catholic Mass or the Novus Ordo Missae?
As an EO, I found this very informative. Thank you.
Not sure if we are thinking of the same Steve Ray but the American Steve Ray I know of was a baptist but has long ago become a Roman Catholic.
As a convert from Protestant ordained ministry, which included a brief dalliance with the ECUSA, I can understand Calvin’ s confusion. In many ways, it was a gift of grace for me to finally understand that simply believing in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, doesn’t mean that Jesus is present in the Eucharist outside of the Catholic mass. You have to accept fully the instrument for the delivery of the Eucharist which God designed, namely the Catholic Church and her priests. The same can be said of holy orders. In time I pray that God will lead Calvin through his own confusion into the light of Christ , which will far outshine his own intellect, and indeed transform it.
45:59 It's a perfectly valid and Catholic position, that an office holder, even if he be Pope, would lose office immediatly on starting to preach heresy.
This was not defined in the Vatican Council, but it stands in the minutiae of the council proceedings.
Thank you for reading the document of Pope Leo XIII (forgive me if I got the number incorrect here). I greatly appreciate hearing the reasoning verbatim. I had heard of it, but only the outline, as follows:
Anglican, and therefore American Episcopalian ordination was invalid because the wording of the Ordination Rite was altered to be made ineffective, and by the time the wording was changed again to try to bring it back into line with the Apostolic ordination, all the successors to the Apostles were dead, and so the line went extinct in the Anglican Church.
I did like the reference to Eamon Duffy. It was like hearing about an old friend. He helped me understand the revolutionary nature of the Reformation in England.
Diarmaid MacCulloch has done an even better job of demolishing the Anglo-Catholic theory of the Reformation. Christopher Haigh in "The Reformation Revised" is even more deadly.Neither of them are Catholics. Robinson seems to me to be in the footsteps of the episcopi vagantes.
Hear, hear!
I am impressed with Calvin Robinson's defense of basic Christian truths, but he remains Protestant in his flitting from denomination to denomination to be called "Fr." Same problem with his friend Fr. Brett Murphy, who started life as a baptized Roman Catholic! Thanks for your excellent analysis.
as always education from a beautifully enlightened former lost soul who came home after by the grace of God saw the light and now shines it bright graciously
Our “separated brethren” are not “lost souls” - Lumen Gentium makes this quite clear.
@@Mark3ABE Thank you. You took the words right off my iPad.
I once met Calvin Robinson (in his Afro days), and he was distinctly underwhelming, although very tall!. Maybe he means well. But these days The Church needs more theologists, spirituality, and less do-goodery. The Catholic Church should be a bastion and fortress, and it's priests truly of The Apostolic Succession. People need this, and they WILL come to a fully authentic Catholic Church and not some waterered down ecumenical mish-mash, or Chrislam, or whatever else Francis proposes (may the Holy Spirit help him please). Anglo Catholics seem to have (whatever their personal discernment or sense of vocation) a rather lower level of spiritual development. Maybe it's the secular culture we live in. Although there exists a hunger for traditional practice and that itself may draw those whose understanding is superficial. Many converts not raised in the culture, seem lacking in deep spiritual DNA. And some just love the cosplay!!
Excellent summary of Dr. Marshall's interview. The Synodal Modernist Church mirrors the errors and rise of the Anglican church in my opinion. In the same way the Mass of the Ages is being suppressed, although a lot less bloddy.
What we are dealing with here, is a problem for the entire Church (including the Orthodox part). We are dealing with 'CHURCHIANITY'; which is not the same thing as following Jesus of Nazareth in his teachings and his actions. The Eucharist is instituted toward the end of Jesus' life; and well after his care for the poor and damaged. Notice the appeal, here, to institutional authority: even grounding that authority in God, himself. Richard Holloway, in his autobiography, 'LEAVING ALEXANDRIA', scrutinises the Anglo-Catholic tradition (to which he belonged), and notices two flaws: one nostalgic (hinted-at in what you say here, Gavin); but then he continues "If reaching into the past to ransack its wardrobe and props was relatively harmless, the second flaw in the Anglo-Catholic movement was more serious. This was its lack of interest in the future as a source of new inspiration, and an absolute refusal to believe any good could come from it" (p 234). I think Richard Holloway could have included the 'present' here, not merely the 'future': and this is a flaw which could be aimed at the entire Church. It is as though "the mighty works of God" ceased with the designation of some ancient texts as 'scripture'. Of course, the irony is that Holloway concludes that God is, indeed, absent: to the loss of his own faith. With regard to the Articles of the Church of England, remember the religious ferment in which they were forged. Remember the quality of 'Catholicism' against which Luther, Zwingli and Calvin were arguing: as well as the 'quality' of their Protestantism. Both bore more resemblance to the way in which Islam has always been practised, than to a faith derived from that young male Jew, two thousand years ago. And the cause of this collossal mis-step on the part of the entire Church? Why.....worship of texts, rather than the God they are intending to help toreveal. We forgot, "the Sabbath is made for man: not man for the Sabbath."
Will Catholics who can. Get to Speakers Corner in London join me to proclaim the Glory of Christ in His One and Holy Catholic, Church, this coming Sunday 16 June. I feel ill equipped for such a task and so ask my Brothers and Sisters in Christ to Join me
SO very interesting. What a profound lesson about the inability to escape the consequences of past actions. And I am very grateful to now understand exactly why there is no such thing as an Anglican priest.
I think Calvin has alot of tension in him and he is very keen to do the right thing. But sadly, it seems his tension and stress from all his battles has him running ahead of Christ as it were.
Careful if you are Roman Catholic. You accuse the Protestants of such crimes which yes the protestant church has become problematic for the faith in general, But not in all areas. You can accuse other churches of such things but the Catholic church tries to share the claim of being the first. The Orthodox church wants to ask you about the Filoque.
The Pride and Hubris in the Catholic church believing it is the ONE TRUE CHURCH, is disgusting as the claim cannot be proven and such arguements go against the body of christ, which is us Christians.
“Orthodox” church hasn't changed anything in terms of dogma or tradition since the 12th century when the schism took place.
On the other hand, the “Catholic" church has made changes on some aspects like:
Added the infallible of the pope (dogma-wise)
Changed the Nicene Creed (center dogma of belief statement) concerning the Holy Spirit back and forth, a couple of times, by three distinct infallible Popes
Got more focused on the birth of Christ rather than the resurrection
Changed the community only for bread/body and not wine/blood for laics
Prohibited the marriage of the priests
And that's just for starters.
Theoretically speaking, the “Orthodox” church now is like the “Orthodox” church on the 11th century which was like the “Catholic Church” on the 11th century which has many differences with the “Catholic” after the Schism.
The question is not “Which one is older?” but “Which one is unchanged, dogma and tradition wise.”
Catholics are Schismatic enough without pointing the finger at Good Men.
To prove the claims of the Catholic church we would need proof of the line of apostolic succession, Good luck with that.
Interesting. I know many of those who are searching for the “true Church” who have found their home in the Orthodox Church. However, for most, there is a practical problem. The Orthodox Churches are national churches, so, to find one, you need to find a large city with a large Greek, Serbian, Bulgarian etc community, which has its own local national Orthodox Church to serve that community. However, to join that Church an English Christian would need to make a serious effort to try to “fit in” with people of a very different national and ethnic background. Then, in the smaller towns and cities, there is, quite simply, no question of “joining the Orthodox Church” because there isn’t one to join! In an ideal Church there would be a genuinely “English Orthodox Church” with its own English Patriarch in communion with the other Orthodox Patriarchs. King Henry VIII did envisage something along these lines - a national English Church governed by its own Bishops, in loose communion with other national Churches. However, he severed all communion with Rome. The Eastern Orthodox Churches would probably accept that the Bishop of Rome is also Patriarch of Rome - in fact, the Pope has recently chosen to adopt the title of “Western Patriarch” and to repudiate the title “Vicar of Christ” in an effort to please the Eastern Orthodox Churches. Gavin will find himself in a similar position in the English Catholic Church. There are very few “Old English Catholics” (descendants of the old recusant families). Most Catholics in this country are Catholics because they are not of English ancestry - Irish, Polish, Italian, Spanish, etc. and these days often immigrants from the various parts of the world having large Catholic populations. The local Catholic Church, in most small towns and cities, sits in contrast to the local Church of England, which now occupies prize of place, having confiscated what was once the local Catholic Church. The modern Catholic Church is, generally, a 1960s building on the outskirts of the town or city. Will we ever have an “English Orthodox” Church. I rather doubt it.
someone asked in the comments "When did the Catholic Church become a Roman franchise?". To me the response is in 68 AD, when Peter was crucified in Rome.
A friend shared this with me and it is absolutely fabulous! I have not watched much of Calvin, but I suspect he has fallen victim to the same thing that strikes many spiritual leaders. Pride. I used to watch Taylor Marshall (who notably helped start the Troops of St George in response to the issues w the Boy Scouts of America), but it appears once there was a fawning audience and a monetary stream the tone switched to the dramatic and controversial. When Calvin decides to follow God's will instead of his own, he may step down from the fence he chooses to sit on.
Gavin:
Thanks so much and God bless you for your erudition and pastoral gentleness during these bizarre & exasperating times!! Is there anyway you could comment on groups such as the SSPX & Old Romans? Thanks so much!!
Chris Bates
Ithaca, NY USA
Wonderful lecture. Thank you.
I am a big fan of Calvin Robinson's. We need his sharp intellect in the Catholic Church. I pray every day he'll find his way to the Church. In the meantime, I very much enjoy listening to him when I have the chance.
We don't need a rebellious anglican in the Holy Church.
Gavin. Thank you. I knew him when I think we were both less mature and advanced in our Christian Faith. There is a real, genuine danger in the groundless posturing of the "Anglo-Catholics" - imposture which, I think sometimes deliberately, is intended to obfuscate and cause ecclesial confusion.
This was a near perfect defence. When I get into such arguments and discussions, there is a temptation to feel harsh in our contemporary culture. So please don't Gavin. But as we know, the devil thrives in the grey areas and he first makes you doubt truth and goodness before he makes you act against them. This form of Protestant quasi-Catholicism certainly performs the first part of this procedure - and whether it be sincerely mistaken in infallible ignorance or with other ulterior liberté, egalité, fraternité or "no politics or religion at the lodge" motivations acts as a mouthpiece for the serpent, separating souls from their true home and intended destination.
What you have said shows a genuine concern for Calvin, and not a desire for a mere peaceable and conflict-free life.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
Genuine question from ex-atheist and someone exploring Catholicism: Did Mr Ashenden not adhere to the very church he criticises, for many, many years? And if so was he not aware of these arguments at the time? ( I refer to the opening remarks - I'm not interested in the C. Robinson analysis)
The first APE OF THE CHIRCH was Anglicanism
14:37 Speaking of the two Cecils, what do you think of the Inkling Lord Cecil?
Was he a bad influence on C. S. Lewis keeping him back from Rome?
Was he a restraining influence on J. R. R. Tolkien, helping to keep him out of Apologetics?
Dr. Ashenden, I think that many of your are criticisms are absolutely valid, Fr. C. won't see them yet, I pray that he does.
I have prayed for him to be received into the Church. It would be my hope that perhaps he might pursue priesthood. But that would place him under authority.
I have to wonder if that is the problem he's having in the end
🙏Bless you Gavin I love Calvin and find him confused vulnerable autistic soul looking for a right support and direction- church laws and structure is indeed complex and very complicated I pray for him as his work absolutely essential now💖💖💖✝ hope he’s coming back to GB and continue his conversations here at homeland🙏✨
Gavin, thank you so much for this fabulous talk. Extremely insightful and informative. I’ve enjoyed it very much. God bless 🙏
Fantastic video
Every baptised Catholic has an essential dignity, as a member of “a holy nation, a royal priesthood, a people set apart”. This concept of a “universal priesthood” is, of course, entirely different from the concept as understood by Protestants. While only those validly ordained to the Presbyterate have the fullness of the Priesthood, nevertheless, every baptised Catholic does share in the Priesthood of Christ. For example, in cases of necessity, any baptised Catholic who is in a state of grace may administer the sacrament of Baptism - possibly the most important of the sacraments, since it makes the recipient a new creation and admits him to the Catholic Church and to salvation. To go even further, administered at the point of death, with the recipient having the right intention, it means the difference between eternal damnation in Hell and eternal joy in Heaven. Today, we have a number of Catholic lay people who exercise a very valuable teaching ministry within the Church. I won’t name those I particularly admire, because a list of some might exclude others equally valuable to the Church. They lecture (or have lectured) at Catholic universities and have a wide public platform. Of course, Gavin is amongst their number. He does not refer to himself as a Priest, since he has not been ordained into the Presbyterate of the Catholic Church and it would be misleading for him to use this title, even though he did have this title, as well as that of Bishop, in the Church of England. Is Gavin’s ministry any less effective just because he serves the Church as part of the universal priesthood of all baptised Catholics (as properly understood in the Catholic Church)? In my view, no. If he were ordained into the Presbyterate he would immediately become subject to a Diocesan Bishop, who would be free to impose whatever restrictions he wished on Gavin, even to the point of insisting that he remain completely silent on the current issues affecting the Catholic Church. One of the accepted charisms within the Church, as listed by St. Paul, is that of “Teacher”. That is the charism which Gavin is currently exercising in the Catholic Church.
True.
Anyone can baptise in a situation of necessity and it be valid, even a non Catholic or even an atheist/agnostic.
It is sometimes interesting to speculate. Let us suppose that I was born in about 600 and lived in Constantinople. As far as I would be concerned, the Emperor would be responsible for the overall temporal good of the Church and the Patriarch would be responsible for pastoral care. If a dispute about a point of doctrine were to arise, I should expect the Emperor to call an Ecumenical Council and for him to summon all of the Bishops from all over the world to attend the Council. The Bishop of Rome would attend, either in person, or by a representative. At the end of the Council, it would report to the Emperor who would accept its report. Then, in the exercise of his Petrine Ministry of “confirming the brethren in the Faith” the Bishop of Rome would give his formal approval to the dogmatic definitions of the Council. So, at that time, I would, of course, be a genuine catholic, orthodox Christian, but the Bishop of Rome would not be involved in any way in the oversight and management of the Church to which I belonged. We have those who say that “outside the Church there is no salvation” and insist that this means being a member of a Church under the direct, day to day, administrative supervision of the Bishop of Rome. However, as a Christian living in Constantinople in 600 AD, this option would not have been available to me. I would have understood the Church as consisting of the Bishops, the Emperor and, in terms of day to day administrative responsibility, the Patriarch. So, the question arises “was I saved?”. Was I part of the Church, outside of which there is no salvation?
As an ex Anglo Catholic you have summarised everything that is wrong with it. I felt this almost from day one of my entry into Anglicanism from a life as an atheist. Like many, not knowing much about the Church, I had this view that somehow Anglicanism was a half way house between the Catholic Church and doing your own thing! For many Anglicans the "doing your own thing" side wins because it lets them contracept, be homosexuals, divorce, remarry, have abortions, euthanise the sick and elderly, and believe whatever you want. However, if you actually look at Scripture and Church history you find that Our Lord Jesus Christ established His Church upon the Rock of Peter. This Church - and only this Church - is the one stablished by Our Lord, none other. This Church, and only this Church, has unchanged teachings on contraception, homosexuality, divorce, remarriage, abortion, euthanasia of the sick and elderly, and many many other issues, for which we are NOT entitled to make up our own minds.
Anglo Catholicism is a failed experiment, a pathetic attempt to try and have some of the glories of Catholicism with no submission to the real authority given us by Jesus.
There is One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Join it or just stay out and be your own pope in your own church and travel on your merry way to Hell.
Dr Ashenden, Calvin reminds me a bit of myself when younger and discerning whether to go into ministry (initially as a Methodist but then thinking about Anglo-Catholic orders). I paid the price and gave it up to the Lord when I entered into the Ordinariate here in Australia and am happy as a layman in my vocation as a husband and ordinary run of the mill Christian. I have some sympathy for Calvin but I too have the same view as you in the end.