Brad Jersak, C. Baxter Kruger, Wm. Paul Young, Robin Parry, Peter Hiett - Q & A Session (FGC 2016)
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Brad Jersak, C. Baxter Kruger, Wm. Paul Young, Robin Parry, Peter Hiett - Q & A - Session 12 (FGC 2016)
Credits: Forgotten Gospel Conference - www.theforgottengospel.com
I love the honesty and humility. Robin Parry, rather than trying to look intellectual, simply says "I don't know what to do with that story"..
Refreshingly honest. I love what these men bring to the discussion.
Oh man. I can’t believe these 5 guys are sat together. 5 huge sources of hope in my life!
The Big Meeting!:))) Great Job guys! Greetings from Poltava (Ukraine),Bremen/Germany! Our classic Nicolas Berdyaev already talked in depth of those same issues... For those who wants to know more read his "On the destiny on man" and many other books!
Great Q&A!
It’s the reformers council !! 🎉
Are All Saved? Jesus was asked this question and His answer in Luke 13 cannot be ignored. It's in direct conflict with what these men teach.
Here's a re-post of it in the New King James, Luke 13:22-28:
22 And He went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. 23 Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?”
And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ 26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ 27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’ 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.
He didn't say "few find it now but all find it later." That's just not what our Lord said to the explicit question asked then, 2000 years ago, and by these men in this video (and many other videos and books they make).
Someone else said it below.
If all are saved (regardless of what you believe), then there's no point to NOT live how you want now because there's no eternal consequence. Really. If you will be in paradise with God someday regardless of what you do or believe - there is flat out no incentive to live in any fashion other than the desires of the moment, as debased and horrendous as they may be.
If all will eventually turn their hearts to Christ in repentance because He's all-powerful and eventually wins us over amidst our "delusion" as these men say, then for one, Christ died in vain, or two, Christ is not truly loving because Love allows for the other to walk away and even choose to do so for eternity.
If all things and everyone are restored in the end, what about Satan, demons, and those of whom Jesus said, "It would be better if a millstone were tied around their neck and they be thrown into the sea" (Matt 18:6; Luke 17:1-2; Mark 9:42) or "It would be better if they had never been born" (Matt 26:24; Luke 22:22; Mark 14:21) ? *Because if all are saved it WOULD BE BETTER that they be born.
These men also ignore Apostle John's Revelation (and Kruger loves to capitalize on John's work since he's the "disciple Jesus loved") where John reveals that Satan and all the demons are punished eternally in "the lake of fire" (Rev 20:10) and that "this is the second death" (Rev 21:8) shared by all who are not written in Jesus' book of life (a.k.a. they eternally reject God's Son -- Rev 20:15).
I'm all for preaching Jesus, I'm all for teaching abundant, eternal Life starting NOW which is available through biblical repentance, but this.......... this stuff in this video is not it. Besides ignoring the eternality of separation from God for refusing God's Son, This theology presented by these men ignores a great many other things directly spoken about in no uncertain terms by Jesus and His Apostles.
*Young's insistence @ time 1:38 that "the word 'responsibility' is not found in the Bible" is patently untrue. (It's merely not found in the version he is using).
Sorry man, but if you're going to teach Scripture to people, you can't just use one version and make all your claims off that.
See New King James Version search: www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=responsibility&qs_version=NKJV
HCSB: www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=responsibility&qs_version=HCSB
New American Standard Bible: www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=responsibility&qs_version=NASB
It's also included in The Passion Translation,
The Message Bible (by Eugene Peterson)
and several others found in the Bible Gateway database.
*Regardless of whether or not "responsibility" the word itself was found in the Bible Young is using, I guarantee the concept is. And for him to speak otherwise, is theologically & intellectually dishonest. We absolutely have responsibilities in your earthly relationships. How much more so with our heavenly one! There are many things God asks of us in order to live according to His heart. Living outside of those "responsibilities", desires, and wishes, is against His heart and is in rebellion to Christ.
Is God Loving? Yes! But He's also just.
Is God Merciful? Yes! But He's also Righteous.
He does not negate our free will and while He was on this earth, Jesus said that not all are saved (guess what--by their own choice) and a great many in fact will choose to remain in rebellion for eternity.
He's not going to force people into relationship with Himself or force them to be in Heaven if they don't want to be. He gives everyone the freedom to choose! We lost the ability to choose in the Garden of Eden and Jesus Christ restored our ability to choose but He does NOT make that choice for us! That's what freedom is!!!
What could be more loving than that???? Therefore choose life abundant! Repent, turn from your evil way, and follow God, accept His Son into your heart. Ask Him to show you what it means to be His child and heir with Jesus Christ.
Jesus used a great many definitions to define what being saved-or-not was and what the eternal ramifications of that looked like. These men are twisting those definitions, sadly and The Good News is better than this!
Skip, you've missed the point entirely my friend.
Skip, I have no idea if universal salvation is true or not. I have sometimes thought so, and sometimes thought not. However, neither frame of mind has made me follow my base desires any more or less than the other. All people are not motivated in the way you suggest. A guarantee of Heaven eventually doesn't make me want to displease God. You know, the Jews loved God without believing much of a Heaven at all.
Dear brother the trouble with all this debating between all saved or some only, is that we read the N.T. through the lens of modernity. We read Jesus's words of salvation and do not realise His emphasis was on the Kingdom of God within and in their midst. Today we see this mostly as salvation after death, and we are thus called to save others from the torment of hell if they refuse to accept Jesus as saviour. We can thank Protestantism largely for this amplified by literalistic interpretations of 200 odd year old fundamentalism. Oh how hard it is to shake free from this theological indoctrination. Eastern Orthodoxy the oldest understanding of the Gospel, deals with this subject known as Apokatastasis. Not Calvinistic legal interpretations of the Gospel but ultimately a healing restorative one. A God I rather fall in love with than one that puts a gun to our heads and pulls the trigger if we fluff it in this life. Thankfully I have come to know Christ in me ( Galatians 1/16) my true self and increasingly experiencing the Kingdom of God NOW, through loving others more and at same time having His peace and thus rest as I do this. No striving no evangelical programs and techniques to manipulate others but simply to love and show grace to those God brings across my path. Shalom and may the H.S. and not dogma be the very foundation that you live by. As St Paul said by the Spirit and not the flesh (ego centred self)❤️Spero Dei, in God we hope and trust!
@@henrieecen2938 ,
Thank you so much for your very thoughtful replying! It seems you are straw-mamning my points however.
Nowhere anywhere did I say that God puts a gun to our heads with a choice, nor did I infer it. In fact, just the opposite!
God is very gracious loving and very very patient
He just doesn't make choices for us because He doesn't want robots, He wants relationship.
Think of what I said in terms of relational boundaries:
If a person ask their spouse to uphold their marriage covenant and not sleep with anyone else, that is a relational boundary. Breaking that boundary violates the relationship.
@@Jordan-hz1wr okay. Please explain
That Noah's Flood question is a difficult one. And I know that we don't like to give the power to anyone other than the Father, but the same scriptures do speak of a 'god of this world' and that the 'power of death belongs to the devil'. So there is a real entity that causes death and destruction in this world, but in my understanding it is never God/Father.
I see another 'god' at work throughout the Old Testament stories which were written from the cultural background of believing in many gods. So my answer would have been that 'Satan' caused the flood. Many of the patriarchs worshiped a 'deity of darkness', but we have attributed this to God/LORD because we come at the scriptures with the lens of "the Bible is the inerrant word of God".
I so see this through out OT and the way Jesus shows the Father!!! Have you seen Good God on youtube? Bobby has great content on this.
@@purelove6833 , yes I know Bobby's channel. :) Thank you for recommending it.
Somethings can be known, but not spoken. Enter the mystery, but don’t try to save the mana as concepts. Concepts has a tendency to imprison.
Amen Paul
"Hermineutical extrapolation without encounter" Paul Young is beautiful man.
Not sure I’ve encountered a man who’s thought things out so well.
Great video, I hope those who's comment are longest also listen the most. I think not.
The question about Noah's flood was easy. God was very good to cleanse the earth of nephalim giants and the horrible inter breeding and demonic activity. It was ALL LOVE
I certainly don't see another way of explaining it
They are not defending there beliefs very well
"The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world" therefore, Christ's death and resurrection is eternal. God's redemptive act was there from the beginning because, we, having been predestined "before the foundation" to be made in the image of God, are forever growing and learning in Him. God's grace and redemption is not only a static one time event, but also an eternal act forever working in all lives, regardless of belief or creed.
One of them said "There is no such thing as separation." Really? What about Ephesians 4:18 "being alienated from the life of God"? If there is no such thing as separation from God then what was the point of the Cross?
@Visan Cristian You say "Protestants see the cross as upside down." Give some evidence to support that claim. Give a few premises to support your "straw man" conclusion.
Plus, what has this to do with Universalism? Which is the subject of the video.
The Bible says "for in Him we live and move and have our being". Now, if we have our very being IN God, that would entail that if we are separated from God we lose our very being, i.e. we simply cannot exist (because that is what the Greek word ἐσμέν means, i.e. "we are"). The very idea of existing in a state of separation from the very source of all existence is nonsensical. We can certainly be in a state of hostility towards God, and that's what Ephesians 4:18 is refering to, but we can never be in a state of total separation from God, or else we would simply cease to exist.
@@markdaniels1730 I don't think it's possible to be totally separated from God either (there is such a thing as "common grace") but Scripture does speak of nonbelievers being "alienated/excluded from the life of God" (Ephesians 4:18).
And God said to Adam "in the day that you eat of it (the forbidden fruit) you shall surely die" (Genesis2:17). God clearly wasn't speaking of physical death but rather spiritual death. It sounds like you agree with the serpent/Satan when he said to Eve "You shall not surely die" (Genesis 3:4).
To say that there is no such thing as separation from God is to deny that there is such a thing as salvation! Why did Jesus say to Nicodemus "Except a man be born again he cannot see/enter the kingdom of God" (John 3:3,5)? If there is no such thing as separation from God then there is no such thing as Regeneration!
@@scottleary8468 Scripture does speak of nonbelievers being "alienated/excluded from the life of God", yes. But this alienation and exclusion does not come from God's side, it is a self-exclusion due to hardness of heart, as is made plain by reading the entire verse: "They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts."
Also, to say that there is no such thing as separation from God is not to deny that there is such a thing as salvation. Salvation does not prevent us from being separated from God, it rather RECONCILES us to a right relationship with God.
@@markdaniels1730 It is from God's because He is holy and must be separate from sin. "So fire went out FROM THE LORD and devoured them [Nadab and Abihu], and they died before the LORD" (Leviticus 10:2).
The Bible not only speaks of God as a "Father" but also as a "Judge"! There are so many passages of Scripture that speak of God punishing sin (Matthew 25:31-46; Revelation 20:11-15).
Some of the arguments that you Universalists use make sense but then you Universalists say kooky things like "There is no such thing as separation" and you lose me. Traditionalists and Annihilationists don't use such kooky language!
Hey I like Dustin Hoffman's character as baxter
Jesus warned us that there will be many false teachers among us, as well as false prophets! Put God first in everything you do because death can come at any time! To die without making peace with God is the worse thing that can happen to anyone! Because the next time your eyes be open if you are dead, you will find yourself at the judgement seat of God! We all have to stand before God oneday!
V
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
Isa 45:22-23 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
v
Rom 14:10-13 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
v
Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the BOOKS WERE OPENED.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; AND THE BOOKS WERE OPENED: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.
1Pe 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
The forgotten gospel website doesnt work
The church needs a new reformation
Yes, yes indeed.
Some of the Christian Faith never went through-or needed-a reformation.
I've come to the belief that we're always in need of a reformation. Human communities just go through cycles of rebirth, stagnation/calcification, disruption/conflict, then rebirth. Christianity is not immune to this.
I have not heard any questions about the Kingdom of God on earth ,the Christian community
Don’t do a q&a when the speakers are still eating lunch.
Reaping what we sow sounds like responsibility to me.
Good day and may favor be upon you and all watching this video. Where is the evidence of a bunch of people rising from the dead besides the Bible?
I found some of the answers well said. But the lack of professionalism and eating being served while talking was a bit crass.
If all are saved, or there is no eternal hell, then this little mind concludes that whatever you do in this life does not matter. Faith, morals, law, order ,care, love do not matter. Virtue can be dispensed with. They are all nice things , but have no relationship to ones final destiny. Growth in sanctification has no eternal currency. Why bother? Eat, drink for tomorrow we will all end up in Paradise. For me who am a very sloppy and sinful Catholic but am not ignorant of Holy Scripture, or Church theology cannot grasp this to be true. However, whether it be true or not , I know that I am called to love GOD with my whole heart, soul, mind and strength, and my neighbor as myself. Gross sinner though I be, These commandments I know to be beautiful and holy. This along with The Incarnation, Passion, Crucifixion, resurrection and ascension of Christ Jesus are the light in the darkness of my life . I also believe that growth in holiness/sanctification increases hope. When I pray the rosary I include a Prayer that many Catholics pray - O my Jesus forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy. I would not wish hell on anyone, so I can pray this with my heart but my head struggles. So I pray it with the Love of God in my heart and the mystery of Christ's incarnation in my head and I am at peace with this. Now to move on with working out my own salvation with fear and trembling. Sorry I have used ' I ' many times because this is more of a personal testimony than an argument or rebuttal . Joyful Advent 2018 to one and all.
Pax Christi
So you think the only reason to do the right thing is to go to heaven?
@@jordancox8294 Hi Jordan. No not at all. I strive to do the right thing because it draws me closer to God in my daily life and our relationship becomes stronger and I am then being transformed into His likeness. I then do the right thing because of my divininised nature . Heaven is a state of being not so much a place as one would normally understand place. Take care, John.
Then you just contradicted yourself, since you believe that if there is no hell, whatever we do in this life doesn’t matter. That is a flat out lie. If we are truly living for Jesus, we see the glorious purpose of building Gods kingdom, right now. So many people are literally in hell on earth, and by spreading the love of Christ to them, we are acting as Christ will act to All; and if we truly love Christ, we should want to do that, without the threat of hell!!
And how much greater is the purpose of building the kingdom of heaven, if everyone is welcomed inside; and if it’s gates never shut?
John, if you read this, please picture being unconditionally loved, loved with the purest of loves and knowing that no matter what you do, you will still be loved and welcomed back with open arms. God loves us so much that He not only gave us His only begotten Son, but through Him showed us the way to freedom. Everything is permissible, but not everything is good for us. When I know that I AM LOVED like this I want to love back, give back and live my best life NOW! God gave us guideline for what is good for us, but when we deviate from that path, we create suffering and misery for us. A child obeying their parents out of fear of punishment is not the same as the child putting their best foot forward because they know they are loved. This universal, ALL encompassing love makes me want to live my best life now. Be blessed, brother!
They've done nothing but confuse people more.. Ridiculous 30-45 second answers regarding such weighty matters. Spiritual malpractice
I don't think provoking people to think is any way wrong. Asking for deep answers carte blanche is ridiculous. They are simply giving the seeds of thought here
@@jeffhardy3117 People have already thought. Thats how theyve formed their questions. But to "pass the mic" on some of the most heaviest essential doctrinal matters with unfounded, short one liner answers is not fruitful. In all of our getting we must get an understanding. Listen to them! They not answering anything
Many of these questions are coming from people like me. I've listened to hours of talks by each of these men and read their books. I'm not ignorant of their theology. Consequently, I think most of these questions are only being asked to fill in areas where people aren't quite clear and just need a bit more info to put it all together. It's always great to have a chance to ask an author/speaker questions...
I agree, big gravy, I agree. Jesus was asked whether He truly meant if all were saved or not and His answer in Luke 13 cannot be ignored. It's in direct conflict with what these men teach.
Big Gravy, I agree totally with your statement!