Forsaken was FULL of twists and turns...
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Welcome back to my Destiny 2 Reaction series! Today we're reacting to part 2 of Forsaken and what a doozy this expansion was, I left with more questions than I had answered and I loved it.
You can find Part 1 here: • How could they do this...
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Just so ya know, banshee has lived 44 lives and tends to have memory relapses due to him rebooting so much. So him saying “have you seen cayde?” Means he still believes he’s around because he can’t remember us telling him he died
Just remember this fact -anyone who is raised as a guardian has no memory of their previous life. So when you cross paths with Uldren now a guardian remember, he doesn't have any idea of what just went on.
OH NO. They're going to make me sympathetic for Cayde's murderer aren't they... 😭
@@terabellum maybe lol, idk thats really gonna be on how you interpret the story over the seasons and expansions. Idk if you are going into deeper lore like lore tabs, lore books, ect - cuz really the cut scenes are amazing but its the tip of the destiny story. Also remember Cayde's Vanguard Dare? Whomever takes his life is the new Hunter Vanguard, other people will gloss over this - but technically Uldren was Hunter Vanguard before he was even risen (insert warlock main Kermit T Frog 🐸 drinking tea)
Actually now, let's say that Uldren is within the early third act of his redemption arc.
@@terabellum Well now we know the answer to this I guess!
Interesting bit about Fikrul: his power of resurrection extends to himself. There was an old strike called “The Hollowed Lair,” where we stormed the Scorn’s hideout to kill him again. It is the only strike, as far as I know, that canonically occurs over and over again. In the words of the game, “The Vanguard continues to deploy fireteams to suppress #4503 [Fikrul]”.
Just as a heads up, Savathun is in the background lore more often than not from this point on. Her wish (What she asked for) resulted in the curse on the Dreaming City, which persists to this day. She then spent the next few months teasing to the Guardians ways to break the curse. Obviously, she lied. Don’t worry, though. She’s not done ruining everything for everyone.
a few things that came up:
scorn aren't taken, they are essentially zombie fallen, the fanatic can bring them back with a corrupted version of ether, a substance fallen need to live, hence he can't bring uldrem back as he is not made of ether
"the guy with the golden gun" is a deep lore character, one of the first true hunters
the vanguard dare is literally that, a dare to see who has to take over the post of hunter vanguard since no hunter wants that post unlike warlocks and titans who mostly see it as a position of honor
the number at the end of an exos name represents the number of time their mind has been reset since their human minds start rejecting the robot bodies over time, cayde was revived by his ghost with a journal on him detailing his previous lives as cayde 0 (human) and cayde-1 to 5 including his wife and son, Ace, though it's very heavily implied those memories of his family were fake
resetting an exo mind damages them however and they slowly lose mental capacity hence banshe-44, being reset 44 times) having essentially robot Alzheimer's, forgetting his best friend died immediately after fixing his gun for you
toland was a member of eris' fireteam that took on crota, he died but severed his soul from his body becoming a bodyless voice in the ascendant realm
no taken can't be untaken, techeuns are a very fringe case
ahamkara are also known as wishdragons, shape shifting dragons granting wishes and feeding on that, but often in a monkeys paw kinda way, they were hunted to extinction by the vanguard long ago, except for riven
and yes riven speaks with the voices of other characters
the whole O [blank] mine, is also a phrase tied to the whole wish granting thing, hence "o brother mine" and "o murderer mine"
yes there is a 3 week time loop in the dreaming city and it's still going on like 5 years later (not that unlike FFXIV in game time passes at real world speed)
also love that you literally had the same reaction i had when uldren got ressurected as a guardian lol
I'm also not saying uldren was or wasn't worthy but there is a bunch of people in lore that got resurrected and are pretty objectively terrible people
no you are allowed to know the pyramids exist they were in the end of the red war, you just weren't supposed to see them on the planets lol
I'm sure you'd like the drifter if you didn't only get those few snippets
Thank you for the clarity on the Scorn! (Among the other useful tidbits of lore in this comment ❤️)
@@terabellum no problem, i like explaining Destiny lore almost as much as i like watching people cry over FF14 lmao
w comment
Just to clear some confusion,
Players did know about the Pyramids but obviously they weren't on planet - only seen at the end of the Red War
This isn't mentioned much after but whenever they ominously say "she" or "her" it's mostly refering to Savathun, the Witch Queen
EXO LORE SEGMENT
Deep stone crypt: Where the Exo’s were created, learn a little by who and why later in the story in beyond light.
Cayde-6 Banshee-44 Ada-1:
Every Exo has a number after their name, that’s the amount of resets they had, every reset damages the mind more, and why Banshee asks “You seen Cayde around?”
Fun Fact. When Mara talks about her dream and the friend she'll eventually have at 1:00:37 she's talking about the Exo Stranger and repeats the line the Exo Stranger once said to us.
It's not immediately obvious watching cut scenes like this but those meetings with Mara happen over months. You would only get to see her every three weeks. Same with that scene with the ghost. One week Mara wasn't there but interacting with her display gave you that cut scene. I may have cursed first time I saw it 😂
That explains why it all seemed so cryptic and disjointed, viewing it all in sequence!
The thing about Cayde's stashes: The problem with the position of Hunter Vanguard is that no hunter WANTS to be the Vanguard. They'd be chained to the tower, not out in the field where hunters thrive. So, the Vanguard Dare started. The first Vanguard was basically told "betcha can't handle it" and so they did it to prove them wrong. In Cayde's case, the dare was kind of about who could kill Tankis (big bad Fallen guy) and Cayde lost, so he became the Vanguard. Cayde's dare was that whoever killed him, or was responsible for his death, would get everything Cayde has, including the Vanguard position. Thus the stashes mentioning people killing him. If they had access to the stash, then they would have killed him to earn it.
So if it wasn't apparent enough, a lot of the Destiny 2 community was not smart or informed enough at the time to realize and parse that Forsaken was not a revenge story about Cayde's death. It was always about Uldren becoming Crow. If you were paying close attention to every cutscene that Mara (Riven) was in for the entire campaign, Riven whispers his Destiny to him (from a long cherished Awoken parable which is Mara's prophetic vision/plan). This destiny follows the tenets of the Speaker/Guardian credo which is also confirmed by the Traveler when we get our new subclasses in Forsaken: "Devotion inspires bravery, bravery leads to sacrifice, sacrifice leads to death..." In the first cutscene when Uldren torches Mara's throne and a whole court of Awoken Corsairs, Riven as Mara tells Uldren something along the line of nobody has shown more DEVOTION as you; in the next scene in the Dark Forest, Riven as Mara tells Uldren to be BRAVE when he is desecrating a Shard of the Traveler to extract a pure light crystal (an act of blasphemy when the Traveler reaches out to cleanse him in return moments prior because he is destined to become a Guardian); the following scene is him contemplating to go into the Darkness in the Ascendant Plane before he parts ways with his newfound son Fikrul the Fanatic seemingly to a point of no return if he fails, where Riven at this point reaffirms him that he has SACRIFICED like no other before him in his efforts to fulfill his promises to realize the prophecy; and ultimately, he dies at the end of his journey, leading to the fulfillment of the Guardian credo. People were shocked at Uldren's revival by his ghost, but it never was supposed to be a shocking thing to begin with. The title of the expansion is literally about him being the Forsaken Prince in the parable that would ultimately fall and be brought back by his sister, but as you can tell, some people with paracausal powers intervened because only those who have paracausal powers can alter fate itself. (Who specifically, will be discussed at a later point in the story's timeline). Keep in mind, the Light doesn't bless those who are morally good, only those who are worthy by criteria. Every "good" done to kill a Fallen, Hive, Vex, Cabal, Scorn, etc is still a murder even by the scope and lens of protection. Not all inviduals from these factions and races will abide by these rules and blindly murdering them when most them are just having to fall in line to avoid extinction is still wrong. Even people blessed with the Light are warmongers, and historically, those who have resurrected long ago comitted war crimes because of their newfound immortality and power. Those people were called Warlords (one of which is Shaxx who eventually rehabilitated himself), those who are the people that the Iron Lords (the knights from Destiny 1's Rise of Iron) fought to keep justice for the people in their stead.
BONUS NOTES for Cayde's Stashes and Mara's Court visions
1. The man with the Golden Gun is named Shin Malphur. There is a entire revenge lore book that parallels the tragedy with Cayde. You should watch a lore video about it on MyNameIsByf's channel cause it's pretty fully good fan voiced acted audiobook of the entire official lore text. Essentially, Shin Malphur is like a radical Light wielder. He punishes anyone that strays too close to the Dark, which is why he warned Drifter that running the Gambit operations which causes you to give in to dark temptations and mercilessly go after your fellow guardians for sport UNLIKE the friendly sparring in the Crucible might have Shin Malphur pointing his sights on the participants and Drifter.
2. The code that Cayde tells Petra is an Awoken encrypted message. The format always starts with Paladin Orin, a made up fabricated person to indicate it's a secret message on radio comms; the rest of the message is actually the first letters of every word that follows Paladin Orin in tactical jargon... and is as follows: "If The Sun Over Nessus Escapes Nebula Cycle, Evac Labor After Dawn Under Solstice" which reads out as "IT'S ON ENCELADUS". We currently don't know what this means or if Cayde was just wrong giving out mixed intel (but it's very ominous). Fun fact: The reason why we are able to decode this is because during The Warmind DLC, we got the lore description for the Telesto exotic fusion rifle that had another message that mentioned that Uldren was untrustworthy and desired power, which was discovered right before the events of Forsaken, which was tied to his ship that was found crash landed on Mars.
3. Mara's encounters all are unripe fruits waiting to be plucked. Each talk foreshadows something in the future; of the ones you should know are the friend she is talking about meeting in the future: It's the Exo Stranger from Destiny 1 as her famous line is "A side should always be taken, even if it's the wrong one"; another is the Pyramid ships: It is implied that Mara has been staving off the forerunners of the Pyramid ship invasions or at the very least, obscuring their trajectory to get to Sol. We already knew this was happening because we saw them realign themselves at us during the final cutscene of Destiny 2's base campaign when the Traveler explodes its light out into the cosmos. We've also known about them from key art since the pre-launch of Destiny 1 and in lore cards. Everyone and their mom had been waiting for them to show up and was more hyped every time they dropped a teaser of them in game.
Since you seemed curious about Caydes 0-5, the number after an exo's name is how many times theyve been rebooted. Exos need to be rebooted every now and then to keep themselves sane basically. Since exos are human minds in robot bodies, the mind kind of has to be tricked into thinking its still human, or you could drive yourself mad, this is why exos still eat despite being robots, because it helps trick their brain into thinking its still in a human body. exos do have a problem where they can experience a bunch of issues if theyre rebooted too many times. Clovis Bray, the guy that created exos and rasputin hoped to iron out those issues before any exos got to that point, but the collapse halted all research, so its still an issue that all exos still curently face. Exos can safely be rebooted about 20 ish times before they start experiencing issues, one of them being memory loss, hence why the gunsmith Banshee-44, whos been rebooted 44 times, can never remember anything. thats why he asked if youve seen Cayde around when he fixed the ace of spades, because he couldnt remember that he'd already died...
Sidenote: Ahamkara are also known as wish dragons, they can literally will things into reality so long as somebody wishes to the ahamkara, then the ahamkara feeds on the wish and its desire, sort of like a symbiosis. As far as i know, the ahamkara were killed during the great hunt when a bunch of guardians hunted them to extinction, except for Riven, who was hidden by the awoken and used to build the dreaming city. Even the corpses of ahamkara can be used to grant wishes, so theyre extremely valuable, Some of the highest tier items in the game are made from ahamkara bones, and even Eris Morn only escaped the hellmouth on the moon because she wished on the bone of an ahamkara that she kept after her and Ikora killed it during the great hunt. The glowy green rock she still carries around is that bone.
19:30
Want to mention the cayde cache to petra cus I think it's an interesting story of how fragile our ghosts can sometimes be. Petra was running a mission with a few guardians and at the end thought "I can do a bombing run, the guardians will just revive themselves" so she carpet bombed the battlefield. Unfortunately, she didn't just blow up the guardians, but she got their ghosts too.
That's what cayde was poking fun at when he said "another case of your famous collateral damage" and "you got a blast radius"
That's so sad, dude. I would have thought the guardians would be fine too. 🥲
7:32 This one line flew right over my head the first 10 or so times playing it, until one of my friends asked me "Where else to we see the 'Oh ____ Mine' phrase in Destiny?". It was a subtle nod to what we were actually up against, but it was such a "blink and you'll miss it" moment. I'm so sad we can't go back through Forsaken anymore.
The Scorn are basically Fallen Zombie ressurected by wish magic. For those of you that don't know the whole Monkey's Paw legend that Riven's wish magic is based from, if you are not very specific with the wording, the wish is so easily corrupted.
So Uldren before the events of Forsaken found a dying Eliksni and wished for it to live that brought the Elkisni to life via Dark Either and by extention created the Scorn. It's also one of the reasons the House of Kings from D1 is not around because Fikrul the Fanatic docked the Kell of the Kings.
You actually saw the ships first at the end of the red war. They activated and started to approach us
So the "Eldritch Horrors" are Taken Servitors known as Chimera or Ascendant Primeval Servitors. Or you can use their common name: Meatballs.
The scheming queens are actually Mara and Savathun, you will understand.
A little bit of contention about this, but at the end of forsaken when uldren is killed you have two guns, Ace which is in your hand, and another gun in Petras hand, some people argue it but we’ve heard the sound of Ace of Spades in a few cutscenes, the sound at the end of Forsaken is a different gun sound than Ace, so imo, Petra killed Uldren, not us, but Mara sure seems to think it was us
Actually it was our Guardian. While the sound of the shot heard isn't the ace we never know if Petra actually fired the kill shot. Bungie left it intentionally ambiguous. But in later stories with Crow it is clearly implied by multiple sources including Crow himself that our Guardian killed Uldren.
@@CarlosHuiskens yeah it’s implied, tons of things are implied in the game over the years that have never meant anything
Like everyone can admit, even you did, the gun in our hand isn’t the one that shot, so unless during that black screen we quickly grab a whole other gun and decide to shoot… yeah it doesn’t make any sense
@@amUusTV Again as I mentioned before. The shot you heard when the screen was black ISN'T necessarily the kill shot. I'm not sure if you've even kept up with the game but certain statements made by characters have pained a pretty clear picture of who actually killed Uldren.
Crow, Mara and even Savathun all point the finger towards the Guardian. While at first there wasn't a clear answer now there pretty much is. They've put our Guardian in the role of Uldren's killer because it better fits the story, Crow's character development en growing friendship with our Guardian.
@@CarlosHuiskens your right, it better fits the story… And plenty of characters tell us stories, Savathun the Queen of lies for example, but Mara says Petra paid her dues for it and Mara also says THE VANGUARD killed her brother too, towards Ikora meaning Ikora and Zavala also killed her brother?
We can all believe the story how he want, but the fact that the gun in my hand isn’t the sound we heard, I’m just not going to be 100% sure it was my kill
Heck I’ve even seen people argue on their views of the Eliksni to a degree! And definitely the traveler!
Honestly I don't even really understand the contention. It makes no difference who pressed the trigger. Our Guardian and Petra both worked together to kill him. Who actually fired is immaterial; it was with the other's full approval and support.
So yes, Petra had a debt to pay. And yes, the Vanguard - meaning the entire faction (including us) that operates under the authority of Ikora and Zavala, not just the two of them - did as well.
The Traveler, via Ghosts, does revive people who sacrifice and are loyal and blah blah. Uldren planned to sacrifice his life to save Mara. He didn't know it was Riven, but the motivation was there. He was loyal to his sister and to a lesser extent the entire Awoken people. Don't get me wrong, Uldren is a horrible person. But he has the qualities that make for good Lightbearers. It should be noted that the Traveler has a history of this. During the Dark Age after the Traveler "died", a lot of Ghosts resurrected a lot of horrific people. You might even call some of them evil. But they had the qualities the Traveler looked for so they got a Ghost and a resurrection. (Terminology note: Lightbearer refers to anyone with a Ghost and has been resurrected. Guardians are a subset of Lightbearers that defend the Last City. The Iron Lords mentioned in the D1 expac, that Saladin belongs to, predate the Guardians and are Lightbearers. Some Iron Lords are/were Guardians, like Saladin. But not all of them.)
That all said, I think the Speaker was messing with Ghaul. As far as I can tell, the only real quality the Traveler looks for is the capacity to be a soldier and the willingness to kill. (Well, initially. Some Guardians and Lightbearers have become pacifists.)
1:02:50 , dont forget the cutscene from the redwar where it showed the travelers light blasting through the galaxy activating the ships
Alright I’m sure some of this was already said but
1. The scorn don’t look like the taken, they look like the fallen, because they’re the same, Scorn are Fallen but Zombies (literally killed and came back to life)
2. Banshee like Cayde has a number, banshee 44, cayde 6, the number represents how many times an exo (the robot people they are) have lived, died and reset (forgetting their entire lives) because if they don’t, they fully realize they’re in a robot body, disassociate and unalive themselves horribly, the more resets though, the less… stable your memory gets? You forget a lot all the time, aka why Banshee forgot Cayde died, if you listened to him closely he seems to always be forgetting something
3. That awful looking meatball talking to Uldren was under the control of Riven, an Ahamkara aka wish dragon, it manipulated him to [redacted] (sorry its spoilers)
4. All that darkness stuff in that other dimension WAS taken, taken energy, taken blight, the dreaming city was basically corrupted by taken, because of Riven and someone else (again trying to avoid spoilers but you’ll definitely know)
5. I’m almost certain you’ve heard the name Toland before, he was mentioned by Eris Morn, so all I’ll tell you is he is related to hive and hive magic just like she is, he was one of the people who went down with Eris when she lost her light
6. Yes the city is in kind of a time loop, every 3 weeks, because of Riven and the other persons Wish, the city’s curse gets stronger and then resets, the people inside don’t luckily
7. The cutscene with THAT GUY at the end (not saying a name) came LATER after Forsaken, it wasn’t in originally, but yes it’s very important
8. Yes you were right, Mara is fighting some kind of “space war” against something, not truly dead, but she also kind of was (I don’t know if you’re going to see the seasonal stories at all so I don’t want to say anything that happens in them)
9. Golden Gun is a Super ability for Hunters, but there’s also the man with the Golden Gun, and there’s another hunter you know, Ana Bray, who also has a special Golden Gun, all hunters have it but both of theirs are a little different
Fantastic info without any spoilers! Thank you very much!
A bit about the pyramid projection. At this point, you would know that the Pyramids exist (they were shown reactivating at the end of the Red War campaign when the Traveler killed Ghaul). You still wouldn't know exactly what they were yet, though, only that they were closing in.
Ahamkara are also known as "Wish Dragons" they are paracausal, shapeshifting, beings that offer bargains or wishes...bargains or wishes that can often reshape reality...they feast off of the energy released by granting these wishes
The vanguard had them all, or most, hunted down save for Riven
We later find her 13th wish...a cache of her eggs, later in season of the Wish for Lightfall
Cayde-6 was rebooted 6(+) times. He mentioned in a lore entry that he didn't want to keep count cause 7 is his unlucky number. As for Cayde 0-5, that was when he was employed at Braytech on Europa. He and most of the Exos HATE Clovis, and the Europa Lore is brutal. Exos could be rebooted for any reason, not just for fixing an actual problem. So yeah
You can still fight Riven, she's in the raid called Last Wish. It's pretty hard and you need pretty good gear and 5 other people though
The paladin oran message was code you take the first letter of each word to make the real message.
Paladin Orin, by the way, was the name of the Emissary of the Nine when she was a Guardian. I'm not quite sure where "Paladin" comes from but I think it's what Titans were called in the Pilgrim Guard - the Lightbearers that would later be known as Guardians.
I know I'm late to this, and idk id you've been told about this, but during the final mission of the main story, you hear "Mara" calling Uldren a "brave, devoted, pathetic fool" and the speaker specified devotion and bravery as key factors to be revived.
I love how much you pick up on. You ask the sort of questions (if not straight up the exact questions) I would ask while playing it, it really feels like re-living the journey thanks
Loved your take on this magnificent chapter of Destiny... I think you'll be mind blown how manipulative and cunning the traveler is juast as any other major enemy we have faced. You'll going to love the Witch Queen chapter, I just know that. The Traveler has not been always been nice, you'll see what it did with the Hive.
Huh... never noticed Mara talking about the Exo Stranger with the "A Side should be taken" speech. Granted that speech was in Destiny 1.
Time to play thru Shadowkeep, my guy
ah. last wish raid is like no other. you should (may be already did) watch/play it
i can not WAIT for you to get to witch queen the best expansion
The scorn are seperate from the taken but similar in the since that they are both derived from the darkness. The scorn are basically zombie fallen that were revived by the darkness
You can also still fight riven in the raid "the last wish"
So i don't know if you realized it or it's been told. He says "take care of Ace." In the fight he had after his ghost dies he says "I'm coming home Ace." In lore Ace was Cayde's son before the collapse.. thats why he says that.😢
I wonder if there's something/one else imitating Mara to control him? Or if it's actually her. Hmmm curious. (Commenting mid-watch 😅) I feel like 'she's' going to do him dirty.
It's so nice hearing Cayde's voice again.
The thing with Uldren's revival is that, the requirements for being chosen as a Guardian are not based if you were a good or bad person. One could have been a serial murderer in his past life and as long as they had shown bravery, devotion and some sort of sacrifice it would have had the same chances to be revived as the goodest person in the world. Uldren demonstrated all these attributes, with being brave throught out the whole story as he was clearly unsure most of the time of what he was doing, a total devotion for his sister, and sacrifice as he betrayed his whole people for the sake of bringing Mara back. So yeah... he really is deserving of being a Guardian lmao.
I never knew how much Awoken had special dialog. Wish I had an awoken guardian
The scorn are not taken. So, the fallen require this energy called ether. The scorn came into being becouse the ether that the fallen consumed was corrupted my darkness. The Fanatic has the ability to corrupt the ether in dead fallen and that is how he creates more scorn. i think i got it right, but i dont really remember.
so i just wanted to point out that the part with rivenn the ahamkara was a raid like wow with raid bosses and stuff, a raid team of 6 and it was one of if not the hardest raid in all of destiny
I wish I could play through that whole fight. It looked VERY cinematic with that intro to it.
Technically you can if you decide to play the game again after getting caught up. Everything from Forsaken onward is still in the game. So the raid against Riven is still playable. The only things that are vaulted are red war - warmind and the individual seasons (minus the 4 newest ones). Would be cool to see you try some of the raids at some point with the knowledge of past events and especially since they will start to appear in these recap videos more as they became MUCH more tied into the story@@terabellum
@@terabellumThe whole Last Wish Raid where you go in and kill Riven is still playable and is home to some of the best weapons in the game
Love watching your destiny stuff it's genuine. I believe you would really find halo interesting if you haven't played all the games already hahah. Long story short Bungie made halo... Bungie made destiny... The dynamic is there in soo many ways.. master chief is the guardian in destiny... The taken are the flood... Lol I can do this all day.
I was actually thinking of diving into Warframe soon/next as I've heard very good things!
I have fragmented knowledge about Halo because everyone around me loved it, but I was always a Sony/nintendo boy, so I haven't really played them, I'll keep the series in mind!
@@terabellum Warframe is mehh 😂 but that's just my opinion. Halo and destiny have a special place in my heart hahah i think you'll enjoy halo my friend!
So, it will be a while until you see Uldren again, but he will return.