WHY We Can't IMPROVE at Golf
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- Опубліковано 29 лют 2024
- #golftips #pga #garmin
@GolfwithMarcusEdblad
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I am truly blessed to have a friend like you. 🙏❤
💪 💪 💪 ❤️
1ST off prayers to Marcus Edblad and thank you for talking about him. Great instructor and Human being. And thank you for all you do to help the average golfer.i think your spot on on golf swing. I use Marcus and channel lock. It works for me At 66 yrs old cannot get into the position they push in traditional golf. Thanks again for all you do for us average Joe's
It's tough for most of the golfing population to hit the "optimal" positions in modern golf. Many thanks!
Hey, Chad, I wanted to give you a shout out. Recently, I have combined the stance of JV, with the swing thoughts of Marcus Edblad, and come up with something that is working well for me. JV gives me more consistency and Marcus' teachings on how to let the hands go is giving me great distance. I wanted to thank you for the introductions to both concepts. Golf Test Dummy did exactly what you designed it for in my golf swing and I appreciate it! Hope all is well with you and prayers for Marcus!
Love to hear that! Thanks so much. Marcus will be back in the saddle in no time, too.
Love to you, Marcus❤️👍🏽
I totally agree with the fundamentals you talk about. It is finding your own swing by trying everything to see what works best for me. Best meaning what contacts the ball correct and puts it toward the target with the best distance.
Yep, it's a sad fact, but since we've been around on the planet, the most effective way humans learn is trial and error.
Wishing the best for Marcus.
Good job sir, very well explained, thank you. Continued prayers for Mrs. GTD and sending some to Sweden too
Back in the ER last night and admitted to hospital with her. Doing OK though.
Sorry to hear about Marcus. Totally agree with your four fundamentals keep the videos coming always gain perspective.
So great to hear that feedback. Thanks.
This is a great video. A lot of wisdom here. I completely agree with you on the universal fundamentals and also as you said towards the beginning that there are other fundamentals but those can vary from person to person. We will hear the golf swing is a circle and it's all about the shoulders, no no no the golf swing is all about the arms and hands, no no no it's all about firing the hips and driving with the legs, no no no it's all about understanding how to use the ground force. It can be mentally exhausting.
For me I've had to find a balanced blend of all these things (though I've had to toss out the whole firing the hips idea) that produces the best chance of consistently delivering on the universal fundamentals that you stated.
One thing that IMO identifies a good instructor on any topic is someone who realizes if they're naturally gifted in something they probably have blind spots where they don't realize they are taking something for granted that others might struggle with. I'll always be grateful to a commenter on one of your videos that gave me a fantastic tip for something I was struggling with. I was lost and in a fog over how to work the clubface throughout the backswing and therefore had very inconsistent clubface positions at impact. The commentor said keep the clubface square to the arc of the swing in the beginning of the backswing but allow left arm rotation synced with the folding of the right arm as the backswing progresses. Eureka! I've been playing much better and consistent golf since then, so that is a fundamental for me because this idea produces a really square clubface at the top with much better odds of a good clubface position at impact. Others may handle the clubface well instinctively, but I didn't.
Also will have Marcus in my thoughts and prayers.
Great stuff in this comment, and thanks a ton for sending it. Yeah, that's a definite thing about the blind spots. Depending on an individuals perspective and/or idiosyncrasies, certain things can be overlooked and taken for granted. That's one of the things I love about being club focused. A lot of that is eliminated.
100% on this on blind spots from former elite players turned instructors who were scratch before they were 14.. different game and golf swing for them.
Haven't been watching Marcus for a while as I wasn't able to put his method into practice. I will certainly head back over and check in as well. Thanks for letting us know he is struggling with something.
That's all I ask. Thanks PJ!
Very well thought out video. Will pop over to marcus' channel and send him my best.
Very much appreciated!
Good stuff Chad . Lots of way to get it done . Back swings aren't as important as the down swing . It's squaring up the face thru impact with some shaft lean unless it's the driver . I'm a single planer & I appreciate your respect for moe & your videos on the single plane swing you did a while back .
Big time respect for Moe. The ultimate "unconventional" master.
Marcus is a good guy and all his friends will miss him during his absent…prayers to him daily
Golf is a tuff tuff game to play and to move up to a new level is just as tuff to get to that level
We can but it takes time with patience and practice…a lot of practice and the correct kind
But I believe what it takes to get better is heart
I believe if we don’t have that heart to want to get better and I mean really want to get better then that level may never be achieved
You can buy all the equipment that’s supposed to make you a player or lessons … with out the drive … with out the passion … with out the heart to find the player inside the player … good luck finding him
This game will leave you sad and disappointed but when those levels are accomplished you will feel like the king of the mountain
It’s not a game for the weak at … Heart
Good video GTD
Man, that's a great point. You've gotta be driven to improve, or you'll quit at the first hint of adversity.
When I stopped trying to have a perfect swing and just played more, you tend to learn what you have to do to score .
Oh man, absolutely. Trying to chase a textbook swing can be the ultimate distraction to playing solid golf.
Wishing Marcus all the best...
I've followed you for a long long time now ...
I've also followed a similar path trying many methods some due to back issues some searching for answers...I got to single figures and stayed there for about 15 years....but I've never felt I could give someone instruction....and the reason for that is what I feel is never I repeat never what I actually do..and I've seen the same things with you....this was highlighted when you went to golf tech
So what I gues I'm saying is I'm not sure about this new teacher role you seem to be following.....
I loved watching you rip up your swing and trying different methods....but you don't even play very often...
I like your presentation but I'm not sure about this new direction....
Wishing you all the best ...hope this works out for you...maybe I could be on board if there was concrete proof of how much better you have got....I'm not sure
That's fair. And I've had the same thoughts and asked myself the same questions. There's a ton of have to say on this, but in the interest of not getting too long winded, I'll hit some highlights.
I'm not really teaching a technique, or a method, or a system. The things I list as fundamentals are facts, not opinions, so what I'm doing is not that different from a set of instructions on how a coffee pot works. It's works this way, and that's it. It's the only things that MUST be in a golf swing. Everyone's physical movements can vary, and certainly optimal is a consideration for elite players, but most golfers are trying to figure out how to make these perfect biomechanical swings, without even understanding how the tool needs to work. Hope that helps explain my thought, without hosting a filibuster.
Good stuff Chad...
I'm still healing from my lower back surgery 11 weeks now, still sore but I'm able to putt and do greenside chips.... hopefully by Mid April 🙏 had my surgery in December when you did that live video I was literally in my hospital bed live chatting with you👍 also prayed for your wife. God bless
Haha, and now I'm chatting with you from the hospital. Wife is in for a blood clot. Long story. Great to hear that you're improving!
@@GolfTestDummy praying for your wife hopefully she'll be able to recover quickly 🙏
I have left a note for Marcus and will keep him in prayer. All the best to him. A fascinating thing that I have been digging into lately is release types and patterns. Generally, there iare two main types which are body release with little shaft twisting and hands release with a fair bit of twisting (or face rotation if yoiu will). Tony Luczak is demonstrating and ostensibly teaching a body release where the clubface starts to be pointed at the ball above the waist and the trail arm moves across the chest in direct lockstep with the rotation around the center line of the body and the lead wrist goes into extension much earlier in the release in order to complete the squaring of the face as the hands get deeper more quickly on the lead side of the body.
Interestingly, Shawn Clement demonstrates slow motion swings and concepts as though he was advocating a hands release however with his current swing, he has a classic body release if you look at it frame by frame or in slow motion. He also has had a hands release in earlier iterations of his swing when his hands got less high and he was a bit more flexible. This is a huge deal in my opinion and bound to create a lot of confusion for people trying to imitate motions or even to intuitively figure out how to square the clubface and compress the ball. I also think that I personally have had both of those release types in my long golf career and that sometimes going from one to the other was the source of "finding something" particularly because I often played and even practiced intermittently and feels tended to easily change from one session to another. Also Mu and Sav are both pure hands releasers to add to the confusion that could be created. Shawn, it seems, has been able to transition seemlessly between these types because of natural talent and constant access to repetition.
Hand releasers tend to be bigger hitters and have more of that classic arms fully extended look in the follow through because the leverage tends to be built up more on the trail side of the body and then released in a longer motion to the lead side of it. This allows the golfer to take the fullest advantage of leveraging wrist angles for a longer time through impact and even add a little speed to the clubhead through face rotation.
Mcilroy and Champ are both hand releasers with some characteristics of body releasers Champ gets and keeps his spine so inclined with his hips back that he has his shoulders closer to the vertical plane of club rotation which allows him to turn more purely as he release his hands which is why he has such incredible shaft lean and compression. Mcilroy stays more vertical with his upper body but sucks his arms close into his body just before he performs a hands release so that he spins like a top to some degree as he does it. Both ways create tremendous power. Understanding these things IMO is extremely important if one is trying to learn to use the club correctly and particularly as one is able to play and practice less so that a clear idea of the objective becomes much more attainable. It is really hard to do something complex with limited practice without a clear idea of what you are trying to accomplish. Cheers.
Alot of this comment makes me think about how there needs to be a fork in the road, or maybe a "2 party system" in golf instruction. Kind of like how they make those online golf ball fitting systems. A series of questions to determine which ball is best for you might be applicable to instruction as well. Something like this:
How often do you play golf?
How much time can you devote to practice?
Have you been proficient at more than 1 other sports?
How flexible are you?
What is your age?
Etc.
Because if the answers you give tend to be less flexible, older, plays once every couple months, practices twice a month, then in my opinion you might as well be asking Michael Jordan how to dunk from the free throw line, lol.
The different releases you talk about are pretty awesome to identify and study. And it can certainly be thought of exclusively, if you wanted, by only referencing the club and other external points of focus. Another thing this inspires me to think about is different forms of practice. One would be trying learn new feels and motions, while another could be training that into your body. I think many golfers would be served well to understand those two very different forms of practice.
@@GolfTestDummy All good points. On the side of learning new feels and motions, I think that golfers have often been exposed to so many swings and tidbits of information that they may not have any clear picture of how they are trying to square the club with some speed. Someone could thus easily be trying to "play to a picture" that is wrong for them or for which they have no concept of the mechanism(s) involved. In terms of simplicity and intuitiveness, a body release I think has somewhat more achievability for golfers that won't practice a lot or that aren't super physically capable but how many golfers are even aware of the existence of such never mind the nature of its attributes? On top of that, more tour players are hands releasers so the room for confusion is pretty substantial. Cheers.
@@GolfTestDummy Really interesting in terms of release types. In the video "Iron Trajectory Control | Lessons with a Champion Golfer: Shane Lowry | GolfPass", Shane Lowry's release pattern is extremely (but not perfectly) similar to Clement's. In the swing at 1:27 in the video for example he has hands high, club across, the line and face open and then he has a classic body release with hands low past his body post impact and lead wrist in ample extension. His clubface does not point at the ball as early as a prototypical body releaser does because of his very strong lead hand grip which again is the same as Clement's. Body releasers will often have moderate to weak grip strength in the lead but I think that you can get a bit more "easy" power by strengthening it and releasing the body harder which is the case for both golfers. So again this is a bit of a hybrid of the two patterns but favoring the body type more.
I seem to see a lot of hybridized patterns in better golfers because I guess that if you can feel what's happening either by natural gifting or sheer repetition, you can take advantage of the attributes of both with the necessary control of the face. This is really highlighting for me how important knowing how to square the face is. If you are confident in that and have any reaonable ability to develop force and leverage, you are way ahead of the game and will be able to apply that force in an uninterrupted fashion into the ball. This gels well with my experience in golf, the more confident I got with being able to square the face with a particular pattern, the harder that I could swing and hit the ball farther while still hitting it straight until in many cases I was almost swinging out of my shoes. Cheers.
I finally ditched the use your body to hit the ball and thought to myself why not just swing my arms then the body will go for the ride, opposite of what other instructors were telling me.
Well I went to the range and started to hit my 9 iron 150! Never happened before and I wasn't so much energy to do it. I got close doing the Square to Square but it's been a struggle with all of my irons with that method. With just swing my arms I was more consistent with ball speed and grouping than I ever have.
Then I thought is this a new method, does anyone teach to opposite, and that's how I found Andrew Emery. He was doing exactly what I was thinking and was clearly stating in his videos this method may not work for you or others you have tried in the past.
Long story short...we are all chasing something and try not to put yourself into an uncomfortable suit. It may fit some people but just do what feels comfortable and natural to you.
Prayers for Marcus...
I love to hear it, that's fantastic. Andrew is one of my favorite instructors on the Tubes.
Good video Chad, when you did your video grading all the different methods the traditional swing and teaching got your lowest grade, because there’s so much conflicting information taught about it.
If you take a traditional swing and stop at top of backswing your shoulders are pointed a good bit right of target line, for someone like me who never got much golf instruction the JV setup eliminates that variable for me, each person has to find what makes the swing most repeatable for them. The biggest issue for most amateurs is managing the opening and closing of the club face, if you can do a video about what makes that easier for you it would help a lot of people
I'll definitely do that one, I think I have a pretty good rough outline in my head already for that very subject.
i have been golfing for about 50 years and been a 13 hdcp. for over 30 years and with all that i put into my golf with play, alot of practice and reading and research i can't get any better. it's a tough game to really excell at in my opinion but i enjoy the whole thing.
It is very tough, and if you've been in a 30 year rut, I'd ask a few questions that may help. Where am I losing strokes? Is it spread all over, or concentrated in one part of my game? What's causing it? Inconsistent strike? Off the tee? Short game? Are my misses consistent or all over the map? Identify the specific issues, make a list, and focus in on them.
maybe the level i'm at is as good as it's gonna get and i do work on it. your advice is very sound though. thnx for the advice.@@GolfTestDummy
Been working with Jim Venetos. There’s no doubt that if you do his method correctly, you will hit the ball better than you ever have. I definitely have after having my doubts at first. It’s just way more difficult and takes a lot of work to get there. He makes it look so easy, and you’ll think it’s easy too, but it’s not. You really have to work at it especially ignoring your arms and staying still. I’ve gotten so much more power with less effort and no longer need to ice my low back from pain after a round of golf. I’m surprised you abandoned it.
It was the premise of the channel at that time. Reviewing unconventional swing approaches over weeks or even months.
I lowered my scores (dramatically) without changing my swing by doing a few things -
Moved to a set of tees that was more appropriate to how I hit the ball
Practice putting
Course management - Keep it on the fairway, get it on the green.
Year 1 - broke 100
Year 2 - broke 90 consistently and started to see my potential and where I needed help/coaching.
I now play consistently in the low to mid 80s and regularly use a coach.
Awesome achievement!! It took me 42 years to break 100. 15 years later and I still can't break 90.
Great, great stuff!
Quick take, fundamentals are WHAT everyone is trying to do: ball first, clubface control, lag, consistent strike with speed.
100% agree, golf instruction focuses too much on the HOW as "Gospel" to accomplish the WHAT
Grip, stance, backswing, are HOW you do the WHAT. .
Unfortunately, the "Gospel" is written for the tour level player, not the everyman golfer who doesn't have the body or time to accomplish the tour level HOW to accomplish the tour level WHAT.
Great insight!
The last part of this comment, damnit, meant to include that very thing in this video. It's what I've said so many times! Mainstream instruction is trying to apply a tour players mechanics and abilities to average folks. It's like having Michael Jordan teach you how to dunk. Well, first off, most of us can't jump that high.
Amen! Something that seemed to be part of that Gospel is the so-called X-Factor or producing a lot of tension between your shoulders and hips by maintaining most / almost all of your knee flex in your right leg throughout the whole backswing. That's just asking for injury and most of us mere mortals will struggle greatly to keep from coming over the top because all that tension is very uncomfortable and an over-the top move alleviates it. I allow plenty of natural straightening of the right leg (not to a stiff straight board / locked knee) and no back pain for me! I bet Tiger would have had far fewer injuries over the years if he hadn't followed all that x-factor "expert" advice.
Wishing the best for Marcus…
Regarding the fundamentals, these are the only two factors for me:
1. Consistent grip and stance.
2. Good balance throughout the swing.
i often wondered if grounding the club right at the ball at address makes me return to that spot at impact and actually causes a fat shot instead of the low point after the ball. what do you do?
I think everyone is different, and only you can answer that question. The way you can go about that is through experimentation. For me, it's about calibrating my intention. Like firing at a rifle range at long distance. Wind, motion, etc. will effect what happens to your round down range, so you have to aim off target. If you need the low point of your swing 3 inches after the ball, you may have to make your intention a foot in front of the ball to actually get 3 inches. Play around and find what gives you a consistent low point, then you can set yourself and your intention up correctly to put that low point in the ideal spot over and over.
I’ve been doing golf tec for a year, instructor is great but we are at a place where he can’t figure out why I can’t shift pressure forward. I discovered it was my grip and setup. My natural grip is very strong grip, once I started using my hands correctly everything has fallen into place. Still dealing with sways and getting use to the new feel of the new grip. But it’s less frustrating!
That's the name of the game, experiment and tinker until you find what works. The next trick is, once you find it, don't keep changing, and stick to it.
I've tried lessons, everything. John Erickson was the answer.
Don't know Marcus, but wishing him well. The resaon most gofers don't improve is because of a variety of reasons: not practicing enough; too much thinking ovee the ball; taking advice from too many different YT coaches; as Tiger said, trying to learn from YT and not getting a proper lessons from a qualified coach; but I believe most importantly, as Arccos data shows, we don't improve because we don't know what to work on. Arccos says to really improve you must improve in these areas in this order: approach shots, driver, short game, and last, putter (this debunked the adage of drive for show putt for dough). The Arccos data also shows that improvements are incremental and takes time, your improvement in each round will look like a stock market graph, up and down. But understand that you will improve if you keep at it. Cheers.
That makes a ton of sense. Hit more greens in reg, take the pressure off the short game and putting. Just an easy 2 putt and GTFO.
Have you ever thought about trying out some of the stuff Adam Young teaches where progress is gained through improving your skills rather than the swing.
Not his stuff specifically, but that vein of thought is precisely in the future plans. Right now, I'm trying to take some time to establish a bank of videos that really takes all the confusing biomechanical focus out of people's minds. Just worry about the club and forget about looking like Adam Scott. But then, building a bank of shots that are simple, and being able to think your way around using the tools you have.
@GolfTestDummy I look forward to seeing them. Really like your stuff as it's so much more relatable to the average golfer. My mind is blown by the amount of people that think they'll be able to copy a pro's swing!
You type like I think, haha.
Hang tough Chad❤👍🏽, love to you and your wife
Many, many thanks for that CH.
I think the most important thing is club face awareness and being able to hit where you look. Golf has become too static, why can a tennis player who’s moving all over the place able to hit where he wants or a shortstop or quarterback throw across his body and still throw to his target. It all comes down to hand eye coordination. Look at the pros, take ten players and they all have different setups and still hit it where they want. Golf instruction puts you in cookie cutter positions, but the problem is everyone is built differently. The most important thing is understanding how to make a club move the way it was designed, and stop wasting time figuring out how to make the body move.
Love this, and I've been beating pretty much the same drum for a long time now. Tony Luczak actually has some good stuff on "reactionary golf" that touches on this.
Glad you are feeling better, Chad. Looking forward to seeing you back on the course in a future video. When you have time, check out a video on UA-cam entitled "The Best Golf Training Aid Only Costs $35" by The Golf Sensai. Easy DIY trainer for the average golfer and those who already play well. I made one recently and immediately noticed an improvement in my swing. Might be something that lines up nicely with your content. I did not know about Marcus but will head over to his channel and definitely send him prayers and positive vibes.
Thanks, Greg! That's awesome of you
I'd say 75% of golfers don't play "golf" they play "golf swing" which is a shame.
Problem with the majority of golfers is that they have taken the game up in their adult life. Therein lies the first hurdle. A major part of golf that is not mentioned is hand/eye coordination, a very important part of golf. I commenced golf at the age of 12 and was scratch at 16. From there it was just how far you took the skill you acquired and how strong your mind was. I was only taught what to do, never what not to do. So my mind was never fed the errors. This is where what you are saying comes into play, instruction today. The money pit is big and every teacher/coach wants a piece of the action. We have hundreds of teachers on UA-cam telling the adult learners what not to do. You have just fed the computer an error, so the mind is now tainted. The golfing world knows that as "swing thoughts". That is why golf as an adult learner is hard. NOW, the mind of the adult. Get him to practice his golf swing freely without a ball and he looks so perfect and smooth. Tempo, rhythm, it's all there. Now put the ball on the ground, fear enters the mind and it's all over. Get a coach to break that and you'll have decent single figure golfers.
This is a very valid point, and one that I've only heard a handful of people say out loud. Anything athletic or coordination-based is exponentially more difficult when we are older, rather than young. It doesn't mean it's impossible, just tougher. Most of the brain and body development we will have is already formed long before 40. So, tough, but not impossible at all. Certainly made even tougher with complicated and confusing oceans of instruction.