I am extremely regretful of how Serbs were treated by Catholics as a Catholic myself, it truly is a shame upon our Church that we must live with eternally, I honestly hope and pray nothing like that ever happens again between our Churches, thank you for your composure in this Bojan, God bless you brother
I tried for awhile to think of something to say, and I think you said it better than I could have. I'm Catholic too, and it hurts to know that members of my Church did such an evil thing so recently.
Jamestown truly it does brother, but let us not wallow in our own sorrow at our reputation, as that’s selfish, let us instead strive to repair what we have broken
The Serbs as a people have plenty of stains whether they are Catholic or orthodox. If you remember the recent Serbian atrocities in an attempt to purify greater Serbia of those not ethnically Serbian. President Clinton sent air strikes in Kosovo to support other EU efforts to halt killings. This whole Serbian campaign was underlined by orthodoxy and an attempt to wipe out Muslim influences. For Bojan to say Orthodox Church was ignorant of national aspirations is not accurate.
I can understand your feelings 100%, Bojan. Personally, I feel the same way; I had family members killed by Ustaše forces, and combine that with doctrinal differences, converting to Catholicism is out of the question. On a much lighter note, I've been loving the frequent uploads on this channel, but don't push yourself too hard! Also, love the way the icons are turning out. You're really getting a knack for ikonopisanje.
It's nit the "Catholics" that did this horrible things. I mean they said about themselves "we are Catholics" but really.. if you are a Christian, doesn't what kind of Christian, you would never do anything like that. It's not your shame or guilt, and these people have a big problem when they stand before God, such as we all. Greetings fron an Orthodox Serb. God bless all good people with good hearts.
Православац IС-ХС I just learned recently that Professor Nicholas Tesla’s entire extended family, his brothers, (all priests) their children (sons also priests) and grandchildren were completely wiped out, to the youngest child, by Croatian Fascists. He outlived them all by two years. There’s a lot of debate on whether the Professor died in good standing with the Church, if he had gotten fully over his dabbling in Buddhist metaphysics and the like. I have this idea for an icon to give and answer: On the bottom, his aged body had just died, all alone on his hotel bed, not to be discovered for more than a day by the staff. It looks small and distant from the middle and top scene, as his much larger and now younger soul is surrounded by his family, his brothers and nephews in full priestly vestments, their sons in full alter boy attire, their sisters, mothers and grandmothers in attendance, all have Martyrs’ halos, and all have a hand on Nicholas, holding him up, praying to the Holy Spirit and the Theotokos to intercede on his behalf. The Holy Spirit is holding a halo by His beak, PERHAPS to be given to the Professor, if God Wills it. It would leave us hopeful, but responsibly uncertain. I think that would cultivate the sort of attitude going forward that Serbs and Orthodox in general should cultivate in regard to those horrors. As for Roman Catholics, I used to be one and am still Western Rite, and even now I regard Huge O’Flarretty as an inspiring hero for all Christians. He was an Archpriest serving directly under Pius 12th, and his action on behalf of Pius in comparison to how the Croatian bishops were behaving is fairly solid proof that they had been acting and collaborating entirely on their own since at least 1938, without Pius’s permission or knowledge. They were also able to take one crucial advantage out of their defeat and subsequent subjugation by the Soviets, it allowed THEM to look like the victims and obfuscate their crimes. The worst part, to me, was JP2 just caving to Croatian pressure to declare that cardinal “Blessed”, when he, himself, had directly condemned Columbian priests for acting as partisans. The most ANY priest is allowed to do in a conflict is act as a chaplain, and an impartial one if their are Catholics dying on both sides he could minister to. Yet he Overlooked a cardinal that had been VERY hyperpartisan. Sigh. So it’s more about that than what originally happened.
I can't imagine this is easy to talk about. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. (On a lighter note, I had a good laugh at your impression of the priest at 11:26). God bless you, Bojan!
Thank you for sharing Serbian history with us. In the west all history is catholic history. It is the history perpetrated by the catholic church. I have a degree in history and it wasn't until I became Orthodox that I realized how skewed the history in the west is by catholicism. We found a history book on Byzantium history written by an Orthodox professor at the University of Wisconsin, the true history of the European world. Glory to Jesus Christ!
While Europe was becoming Europe we know today, Serbia was its fence, the impenetrable wall, the wild thorns around the gentle rose. - saint nikolaj velimirovic..
@@RickDeckard2 Volume one & two: History of the Byzantine History by Professor Alexander Alexandrovich Vasiliev. Originally written in Russian, copywrite was renewed in 1980 by the University of Wisconsin. We found it on Amazon about two to three years ago. It is the Byzantine view of European history. Christ is in our midst.
The fact that you come from a nonreligious family reminds me of myself. My mother is a cafeteria Catholic who only started practicing for the first time in years back in 2015/2016 (it probably had to do with her then-finances admiration for Pope Francis), and my father is a lapsed Quaker who adheres to neo-Arian theology. Although, unlike you, I apostatized as a teen, reverted to Catholicism in 2016, and now I'm an Orthodox catechumen
I am a devout Catholic, and I have no objection to your choosing to be Orthodox. You are my brother in Christ, and I was saddened to hear of the evil committed in the name of Catholicism during the 1940s, just as I am saddened to hear of any atrocities committed in the name of any Christian religion. I am afraid there are too many -- far, far too many -- people proclaiming to be Christians who have no genuine interest in or love for or devotion to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If they truly did, they would not commit atrocious acts, with or without committing them in the name of their religion. I love your videos. I don't agree with some of the things that you say, but your presentation is always worthwhile. God bless.
I became Catholic in 1994 I was 31 years old. I was left so unsatisfied and could not get over things like papal infallibility that I went to three masses and never went back I am now wish to convert to the Orthodox church because I believe it is true and it is the Church of Jesus and the apostles. It has not changed in 2,000 years and never will.
Glory to God! I am currently in the process of becoming Orthodox in thr Greek American Archdiocese! Feel free to message me letting me know where you are in your journey currently and if you have any questions!
@@orthodoxemperor9757 Can you please help me. Right now I'm in the process of researching Orthodoxy and thinking of conversion. However in my country there is very small number of people who believe in Orthodoxy, which is part of the main obstacle I'm facing with (eg. How to find friends)
Bible Illustrated Hands Speaking of Catholic/Orthodox schism, I’ve noticed that St. Maximus the Greek was born in and partially educated in Greece, which is far as I can tell was Orthodox at the time, and then later finished his education in Italy, where he became a Dominican monk. He later left the Dominicans to become an Orthodox monk in Greece, which led on to him being sent to Russia by his abbot. Was it normal back then for people who travelled to just flit back and forth between Orthodoxy and Catholicism, depending on where they were located?
@@ndkiwikid this is because of the unique historical time he lived in. He was Greek and so Orthodox by birth, but from the isles under Venetian Catholic control. As such it isn't surprising as a promising young intellectual he went West. Remember that Florence Ferrara had "officially" been recognized and a lot of Byzantine expats lived in Italy where they contributed to the arts and Renaissance. So him winding up as a Dominican isn't surprising as the schism was a lot more fluid. However he ultimately found his way to orthodoxy and the Church honestly probably never considered him as having apostatized which I agree with. If you were living under such complex and opaque political conditions you'd find it hard to navigate too, and the Lord and Church both had mercy on this saintly man. I hope this answered your questions brother, St Maximus intercede for us sinners.
@@ktanner438 As far as I can tell from my reading, many Greeks entered into communion with Rome at that time. Did the Venetians not require the churches in their territories to commune with Rome? No one can be either Catholic or Orthodox by birth -that requires baptism. I'm still hoping to find information on whether the church was either extremely lax about enforcing the boundaries of the schism, or if Maximus underwent a formal conversion process once or twice.
your rant is terribly true Bojan. let's pray to forgive and also to be forgiven by God. similar things have happened in my birth country lebanon during the civil war. i want to pray because i believe and have hope in Christ always.
I am a Roman Catholic who is convinced of its truth. I have always enjoyed you and your work, and shared it widely. It is a joy to see the many ways in which our two Churches agree and the history we share. The Eucharist is no less true because of these atrocities, the Russian Orthodox are no less a real church because of the suppression of the Ukrainian Catholic Church. There is sin in a church made of sinners, dear brother in Christ. I am sad for your sadness, do not let it get in the way of the Grace God is giving you. I think you are a great force for the unity of the Body. There is plenty of guilt to go around; it reminds us so clearly of why we need a Saviour. God bless you my brother in Christ.
What the Catholic Poles did to Ukrainians is shameful. Forcing them to convert and even killing and persecuting those who didn't. Eastern Catholicism has bad history with my people. There is a catholic saint who went around killing orthodox people then was called a martyr when my people defended themselves. Catholicism is the biggest church only because they bullied and killed everyone else.
Bristol boards wouldn't work as there will be literally thousands of drawings and storing them would become a major issue. I put them in an ordinary see through folder and put them in a dark place (these are the drawings I haven't foldered yet).
You're welcome to your opinion. Heaven knows I used to have some nasty opinions concerning Catholics too. Just try to remember though that "love is willing the Good of the other." That is to say, as Catholics believe that Catholicism is the truth, and the truth is good, therefore Catholics must will everyone to receive that truth and adhere to it. Likewise I assume that you as an Orthodox Christian will the whole world to be Orthodox.
@@tyxikosgatopoulos3094 yes. And the supporters of any cause are free to try to persuade as many people to that cause as possible - as long as they respect the God given rights of others.
Sometimes I wish I wasn't Orthodox because, at least in America, the community is so fractured and small and mostly old people. I love old people but I wish I had Orthodox peers my age. That and I went to a Presbyterian school most of my life and that is the culture I'm used to. I would never leave the Church but I'm envious of the fellowship present among other churches
The age tends to depend a lot on where you are. In my city, most of the larger parishes have a lot of convert families and have pretty healthy youth and young adult demographics. My parish has not only been growing, but the average age of the congregation has gone down considerably over the last few years. To the point where our priest pointed out recently that most of us in the choir are 30 or younger. The parishes some of my friends go to are also fairly young and convert heavy
I'm sorry to hear about the brutal crimes the Western Church condoned and participated in, man. Never knew about that dark chapter in Catholic history. We truly are fallen creatures in a fallen world, aren't we? It really scares me is when I see that part of me flare up when arguing with political or religious opponents. Normally I have to get away to pray for forgiveness and calm down.
Raúl Mercado- Yeah, these things are truly despicable. The human condition naturally goes against the love and Grace of Christ, and this is one of the most heinous examples in all of history. Genuinely evil people.
That is what we are supposed to do, Raul. We all have fallen-human tendencies, I think, but also the mark of a person growing in Christ, as they say, is to do what you said-get away to pray instead of acting on our anger, etc. I speak to myself first.
Our country was occupied by Spain for 3 centuries under the guidance of the Roman Church. Catholicism was deeply rooted to the majority of Christian Filipinos that despite the atrocities of the West then and now, we stayed Catholic... and that sucks. As much as I wanted to move to the Orthodoxy, Orthodox churches here are few and far in between. But as you said in a previous video about Notre Dame, generally, it is not that bad.
There is a great danger when ideology and religion get mixed. In the case of Croatia it was extreme nationalism that became more important than religion to some people. Peoples and nations, however valuable, are still only creatures. If anyone sells their soul for these, they end up serving the prince of this world instead of God. Secular ideology can easily become a kind of idolatry. I would argue that people who were responsible for these crimes were not doing so for the sake of their catholicism, but for the sake of earthly agenda. Hopefully nothing like these events ever happen again.
Rumia What? Why should you be held accountable for people who claim to belong to the same religion as you?? If I misunderstood your comment, forgive me.
Catholics do definitely have a darker history, but we must forgive. The important thing is that the Catholics can learn from past mistakes which I think in many ways they have. It is important that these kinds of things never happen again.
For those wondering what specifically Ustaša crimes looked like: The Ustaše liked to wrap people in barbed wire and throw them into deep pits. My great aunt lived near one of theses sites and watched these unspeakable crimes happen every day, watching people march to their deaths and be murdered in this brutal manner. The whole war, she feared they would come get her and her husband (both Serbs) and throw them in too. The Ustaše made a sport out of personally slitting the throats of Serb prisoners. They did this so much their fingers came to hurt from gripping the knife, so they invented a knife strapped to their wrist to avoid this problem, called a Srbosijek, Serbcutter. They preferred this over gassing or shooting them because 1) bullets and gas aren’t reusable and the Ustaše were on a tighter budget than the Nazis 2) they were sadistic and this was more personal. In the Nazi camps, individual murders were done by hand, mass murder was de-personalized, among the Ustaše, mass murder was done personally. The Ustaše had the only children-only extermination camp in Europe to my knowledge (to be clear, the Nazis slaughtered children en masse as well, just those kids got to spend time with adults who would protect them at least a bit rather than being isolated in a specialized camp). Because Serbs were too large a group in the so-called “Independent state of Croatia” to slaughter all of without the industrial murder of the Nazis, official Ustaša policy was to convert a third to Catholicism by force, largely by raising kidnapped young Serb children as Croats, though since the foster parents knew the kids’ ancestry this was often also a horrendous experience full of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse, much like how Canada treated white-passing indigenous children in the 60s scoop. Then to expel a third forcibly, though the Ustaše never really got to this part of the plan, horrifically enough, modern Croatia’s army went on to forcibly expel about 1/2 of the country’s Serb population in 1995 during the Croatian war of independence, mostly civilian farmers, and they even shelled the refugee caravans as they fled, these people have still been bureaucratically barred from returning and their stolen homes either handed out to Croats or left to rot. Finally, one third of the Serbs in the country were to be executed, though it seems they’d have been ok with executing more. They managed to kill around half their desired amount of Serbs. Another personal example. When the Nazis and their allies invaded Yugoslavia, my great uncle, then a soldier, along with his friends from the army, emptied the arsenal of their barracks and walked back to my family’s home village to ask my great grandpa, a well respected man in the local community, for permission to base a resistance group in the area. Having received assurances from the newly created Independent State of Croatia that any Yugoslav soldier who handed in their weapons and surrendered would be spared and go back to their life, my great grandpa convinced them to surrender. Having given up their weapons, the men were told by the fascist official to go into the village’s Serbian Orthodox Church and pray for forgiveness for thinking to take up arms against their government. They then locked the doors of the church and lit it on fire, burning the men inside alive. Regarding Ustaša crimes against non-Serb groups: much like the Nazis, they liked to target Jews and Roma (Gypsies), as well as the occasional Croatian political dissident. However, the Serbs, as the largest group in the area the Nazis had given them (consisting more or less of Croatia, Bosnia, and a sliver of Serbia), and as their perceived historic enemies, were the prime focus, especially since Jews and Roma were often handed over to the Nazis. Regarding whether the Ustaše really were “more brutal than the Nazis”. It depends. I’d say that the average Ustaša was more brutal than the average Nazi, but I will note that the degree of brutality among both was such that it’s almost pointless to compare, and I will also note that some Nazis, especially camp commandants, REALLY would’ve given the Ustaše a run for their money. I mean shit, there’s the woman who made leather products out of Jewish skin and the many Nazi officers who bought it. Again, I’d just say that the % of extra monstrous sadists rather than run of the mill heartless murderers, was somewhat higher among the Ustaše than the Nazis. And about Aloisuis Stepinac. The gist of him was that he didn’t hate Jews but was perfectly happy to support the genocide against Serbs and Roma. So he did a bit of work saving Jews in Croatia, which is what most people want to canonize him over (though certainly Croatia has a larger amount of neo Nazis than most countries because the Nazi puppet state was the first time they were “independent” in a thousand years so there’s nostalgia towards it among an unusually large minority of Croats, so some privately want to canonize him BECAUSE of his involvement in the genocide against Serbs), but was also actively working at “hospitals” and “orphanages” where he was involved in the torture (both direct and through things like starvation) of Serb children and was extremely friendly with the leaders of fascist Croatia and familiar with, and generally unopposed to, what they were doing. This is not to say that all Croats are some kind of nazi monsters, of course. While most Croats at the time, like most Germans, stayed quiet and many today like to downplay or ignore the Croatian holocaust, both at the time and today, most Croats, like most people, are good people. There was, for example, a Croatian Red Cross worker that risked her life to get kids out of the Croatian concentration camps and saved hundreds of lives. As another personal anecdote, my grandma’s village in Herzegovina is Serb majority and is next to a Croat majority village. The Croats in that village helped their Serb neighbours hide, and arranged with their parents to temporarily claim kids from the Serb village as their own so the government wouldn’t take them to camps. There was a common practice after WWII of people from one village having someone from the other be their best man at their wedding or be their kid’s godfather, both of which are, in Serbian culture, seen as ways of legally/spiritually making someone a member of your family. Sadly these good relations broke down in the Bosnian war in the 90s because of the actions of soldiers of each ethnicity from outside of these villages stationed in them, who simply treated members of the other group as enemies to kill.
The Balkans have a long and sad history as has all of mankind. We need to pray for unity under Jesus Our Lord as Orthodox Christians, under the correct belief of Orthodoxy; His true bride. I served in the Balkans during the implementation of the Dayton Accords and we focused on being fair to all sides and we did our best to work for peace and did not attack people but kept things in accordance with the agreement all sides signed up to for the peace agreement. It seemed that things were better on all sides but I saw the aftermath first hand. The horrors mentioned are real and a very sad indictment of all mankind. This why the monks that emphasize the Jesus Prayer are so true and correct. Only the precious prayer of Our Lord's Name can burn the legions of demons behind these bestial acts and keep us safe from becoming the agents of the demons.
You verbalized your views perfectly. You are 100% correct about the Eastern Catholics and the way its being used to attract the current Orthodox faithful. Regarding the atrocities by the Ustasa regime and the Catholic church's complicity in their crimes, its is horrendous and the Vatican should beg forgiveness.
@@BanterWithBojan I agree, I dont think a resolution will be anytime soon, especially on unity. Personally I'm happy being Orthodox and in particular Serbian Orthodox, although maybe I'm not the best example but I keep trying. Having said that I do have an open and curious mind about the other churches, whether Eastern or Oriental orthodox, or even Catholic. Great channel btw.
Thank you for your video. I had been searching the saints that were both Catholic and Orthodox. I figured they were Saints from before the Great split. I am a Cradle Orthodox, my birth Church. The church was founded by mostly Russian andother Eastern European refugees. One lady who had known me since my birth told me recently that "They all tried to kill us. She named many countries and ethnic groups. She had never spoken of the war before. I am glad I am Orthodox from my beginnings and my ancestry as far as I know. Much love to you in Christ. You teach me so much.
As a Catholic I feel very ashamed for what our Croat, it shames me to no end but I must call them thus, brethren did to the Serbian people. I thank you very much, Bojan, for giving us this information and I pray the memory of this scandal prevents me from ever picking sides candidly behind my church as if it were a team in a petty football match when the issue of the Schism comes forward. But at the same time I really wish more Orthodox people like you who see the importance of Unity as our Lord prayed for (even in the way you spoke about in another video, unity of action and will, while not theological let alone hierarchical,) would stand more firmly and actively against so many of your own brothers who really don't want anything to do with us. I know the leaders of my Church have acted in the past, and oftentimes continue to act, too politically motivated as if it were all an inhuman game of power and I can see that keeping your distance and bearing freshly in mind all those past condemnations we hurled at each other is a logical strategy for the Orthodox to take against our sometimes shallow and rushed peddling of oecumenism. But if Unity were so dispensable, Our Lord's words on John 17:20-21 would be idle, which is beyond sacrilegious, wilful division is a terrible scandal of a sin in itself, one that unlike a burst of fanatical zeal, keeps on going with full or timid acquiescence of our collective, discerning and unrepentant wills, and that wil be on both our churches when He returns.
O K - many protestants also become a Catholic. I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here. A lot of protestants become atheists and Mormons, does that make then true?
O K I think (dangerously) you mean that Protestants Convert to Orthodoxy looking for truth and in the quest for truth politics isn’t important. It’s a surprise to those searching when they are turned away by Parishes unfriendly to converts and ethnic enclaves without English services. (Catholics have ethnic ghettos in too!). Culture often supersedes Church (Spirituality).
Lambdoc Bungo ROCOR, Serbian And Antiochian Archdiocese’s have Western Rite including Monasteries (there’s a Western Rite Antiochian Monastery I visited here in Colorado. Very hospitable to everyone.)
As a Croatian and as a Roman catholic by birth, I can't say there weren't any crimes commited against the Serbs and even parts of Catholic clergy was involved... Im very sorry for the crimes that were done.. Now before any fellow Croat slams me and says Im trying to make Serbs look better then us or make Catholics look bad... No Im just saying sorry and aknowledging crimes commited from out side. Im sure any normal Orthodox Serb who has rational thinking would aknowledge their own crimes from their side. Bojan I know that this video is 4 years old and I want to say you're videos are always made with good intentions and I wish you the best, živel još 100 let ! ✝️❤️☦️
Bad relations between East and West appear to have begun with the Massacre of the Latins in 1182. Following that event, some 4,000 Latins were sold in slavery to the Turk. The Orthodox Church currently teaches that those 4,000 Latins were not validly baptised, so presumably selling them to heathens is nothing to complain about. Have I understood Orthodox doctrine correctly?
Hi Bojan. What would you think the proper way for reconciliation will be between Serbian Orthodox and Croatian Catholics? Or between the Catholic and Orthodox churches in general for issues like this? Do you hold to the idea “forgive but don’t forget,” or do you not forgive the murderers either? I am wondering because my family too is from a place where brutal massacres and persecutions happened between different ethnicities holding on to different Christian denominations. I’ve pondered many of these questions, and I am interested in seeing the opinions of yours.
As Ukranian we have another trouble with Greko-Catholics or Eastern Catholicism. This church become after Berestejska Union (Берестейска унія 1596 р.). Because economic and education oppressions by Polish people and Roman church. The main Ukranian people thought about this union like occupation of our Orthodox Church. But this union church are part of our history, culture and loved by western Ukranians. So it's all complicate with our churches
5:06 Well, i think it's not quite like that. It's because when we think a person is a saint, he deserves respect, and I don't think it's not good to say "we won't worship him just because he had a different tradition." I think it's just wrong, and I'm glad we , Catholics can worship even Orthodox saints, because they also deserve our respect.
@@BanterWithBojan of course before, but now is church totally different. All churches was worse in history, they were corrupted, but now, it's something different
@@BanterWithBojan and there are many Catholic saints whom the Orthodox Church recognizes as saints, even though the saints had nothing to do with the Orthodox Church, but I do not mind, and I am glad that the Orthodox Church has recognized that these people are worthy of worship
@@takstesimelizvolitnekohojineho Can you list some such saints that the Orthodox Church recognizes without them having nothing to do with the Orthodox Church?
There are no words for what they did! I can't think of a word bad enough to explain it. I was taught about this in school along with concentration camps and Hitler they were both as bad as each other.
Please don't diss an entire group of people. I was raised as a conservative congregational list Protestant where I was baptized. I would not have the love for Jesus my Lord or much of anything else if I hadn't had that upbringing of a strong Foundation that is the trinity the Holy Trinity and my church believed it as much as he Orthodox Church believes it and knows who goes where unlike the Catholics or I should say who comes from whom!
I, at times, have thought about being catholic. But as an orthodox, I can't get into their liturgy. It's so bland. Second, the prayer that goes "What is lacking in Christ's suffering I make up in my own body. " Like wut. 😳 There was and is nothing lacking in Christ. And certainly nothing i could add to it. That's just heresy at the millionth degree.
I have spoken with a Russian Orthodox lady with whom I am friends with on this matter. She once told me that Roman Catholicism was a spiteful, hateful, murderous religion, intent on destroying Orthodoxy and all the East, and cited many occasions, and this event was among them. I hope and I pray that in some way I have tried to reconcile our Churches, and I hope I have shown her and all my Orthodox brothers and sisters that Roman Catholicism loves the Orthodox Church as sister might love her sister; for the bitterness shown in the past from Rome to all the East breaks the heart of Christ, and Our Lord knows it breaks my own as well.
@@BanterWithBojan filioque was put in to stop Arian heresy. Bartholomew is meeting with Francis in 5 years to discuss everything. It would probably be like the Eastern Catholics situation. It was like that for years and years before the schism anyway. Do some research on actually why they split. Most of it was just because the emperor of Constantinople was in a power struggle with the bishop of Rome.
Could you elaborate your views on Anglicanism sometime, perhaps? They claim to be Apostalic (i.e. priests and Bishops) and Catholic and the still have the Sacrements and Liturgy but their history is complicated by the Reformation and Henry VIII. It's really interesting because Protestants are usually seen as anti-priest, anti-liturgy, and anti-sacrement even and there is this wierd admiration and connection to the east I find in Anglicanism. Sometimes there's the phrase "orthodoxy of the west" though that is very controversial. But since bringing orthodoxy culturally into America seems to be a problem and we already have a Christian tradition, maybe an Anglican Orthodox can arise. Idk, I just find Anglicanism to be peculiar among the Protestants and maybe you might have some interesting thoughts.
Not converting to Catholicism because of what the Croats did to your ancestors seems justifiable to me, but would you also say that it's justified for a Croat to never convert to Orthodoxy because of what Serbs did to his ancestors? Or a Pole to never convert because of Russian/Soviet Imperialism? Is it ok for Ukrainians to leave the Orthodox Church because they're at war with Russia? Also I don't think you're being completely honest about the history your people have with the Croatians. It is true that the Croats would invade Serb villages and kill all the firstborn sons, but it's also true that when the Croats went to Sunday Mass, the Serbs would bar the Church Doors and set it on fire while everyone from the Croat village was inside (I got this info from a Serb who fought the Ustase, if you're wondering). I respect you and your work Bojan but I don't think you're being fair on that last point.
I will answer the first part of your question in today's video. As for the massacre, are you referring to this one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glina_massacres#May_1941 I don't know what event you're referring to. And I am being fair. Are you aware of all the crimes Croats were committing during the 40s, or did you just hear the sample I provided and went 'but what about that one time Serbs committed a crime during the 40s?'
@@BanterWithBojan No. I'm not trying to defend or minimize Fascist war crimes. I am skeptical because you seem to be implying that Serbians were just as oppressed (or even more so) than the Jews during the Holocaust.
1) If I am, so what? 2) And they were, in Croatia (that is - Serbs had it worse in Croatia than Jews had it in Germany, but I can't vouch if they had it worse than Jews in Croatia). Outside of Croatia, they had much better treatment by Nazis than the Jews had.
@@BanterWithBojan I grew Up Orthodox Jewish, but i find christianity intresting. Will not enter a catholic curch cuz Orthodox Judaisem forbids it due to the cruilty of catholics to jews from the crusades to the inquestion and onward. My grandfathers whole family was wiped out by nazis he survied 3 concentration camps including aushwitz. I knew the croats and poles were the worst antisemtes. It is shamefull they persecuted Orthodox chridtians as well. Terrible.
Question for next episode. Do u think there will be a major world wide religious war eventually? What do Eastern Orthodox think about it happening? If so would that unite Christian faiths ?
I'm so very sorry for what our Church did to your family and people during the war. Please forgive me for this sin. If it is OK, I will say prayers for your heart and your family and people and I will pray that our Church acknowledges our great sin against the Serb people. Once again, please accept my sincerest apologies. Please pray for our Church that we can come together in truth as well as the Great Truth that calls us all. 😥
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I'm really sorry for wounds of Serbian nation have from Roman Catholic cryminals during WWII. I'm from Poland. Because of long list of atrocities made by Russia by centuries in Poland most of people have similar view of Orthodox Church as you have for Romans. Eg. after breaking by Moscow the peace treaty of Polyanovka in 1643 we even had had saing "Greek faith" as a synonym of perjury, deliberate failure to fulfill obligations etc. That's so sad. Polak-katolik synonym (Polish=Catholic), somewhat alive to this day, was a retortion against very harsh 123-years partitions of Poland from late XVII to early XX c. Prussia was mailny protestant, Russia orthodox, third conqueror, multicultural Austro-Hungarian Empire was the kindest for us. I find it very sad that religion, especially Christianity is often used for babylonian purposes. I really like view of this kind of problems presented in @The Bible Project canal. You may like it, the have great content and stunning visuals :) Anyway, could you share your thoughts about "Berserk" you've mentioned in one of your vlogs? I'm really curious what you think.
8:23 If the Serbian Patriarch would have sided with the Axis powers none this would have happened. The Germans would have probably protected all of Yugoslavia. Croats and Bosnians would have not been able to do what they did.
I apologize to one and all, but most especially you for the harm & evil that was done in the name of the Catholic Church. To believe, even if only remotely, that the evils committed under Nazism is anyhow better than something else than Hell, is a sad statement indeed! I also apologize for the person who asked if you would convert to Catholicism. That was wrong of them. God is traveling with you on your journey. IF He wants you in the Catholic Church, He will lead you to it. Wherever He leads you, know that He is with you, in His Mercy, always. On a separate note: the unleavened bread of the Catholic Mass actually comes from the Jewish Passover Meal, which is the the meal that Jesus shared on the night He was betrayed... Even if, as some might say, it was not the proper Passover Seder, because it was the night before the Passover Sabbath, the bread would have been unleavened because Jewish Tradition is that all traces of leaven is to be removed from the house during the week prior to Passover. Yet, as God sent Angels to Peter with unclean meat for him to eat, there is no need to feel that one bread, leavened or unleavened, is better than the other. Once consecrated, both are the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ, to be shared in memory of Him. Love your videos, and as I said, I am so sorry for the pain and sorrow that was inflicted on your people in the name of the Catholic Church. Truly, they were of the lawless of whom Jesus said: "“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’" Mt7:21-23
I'm a Catholic, but I understand the Church has a mixed history. However, I still like the theology and what the Catholic church is capable of at its best.
Take the assumption of Mary, it fits perfectly well with the immaculate conception which by itself fits perfectly with the perpetual virginity... It's about making sense. The Oriental Orthodox Churches would say the same, they would claim miaphysite to be true and original teaching taught by the church fathers and that the Eastern Orthodox Church is wrong, you don't think this is a question of development of doctrine as well?
Well the explanation was fine, the problem is there some which I disagree especially that the Roman Catholic Church was accused of changing leavened bread to unleavened bread. That is not true, because since Apostolic times the Church of Rome has already been using unleavened bread in the Eucharist while in the East is Leavened bread. The Western Church and Eastern Church had different traditions and that doesn't mean that the Western Church conforms with the Eastern Traditions. That tradition must be respected by both. Pope Gregory the Great said: "To eat unleavened bread is to perform righteous deeds without corrupting them by vain glory, it is to keep the commandments of mercy without sin, lest we divert, by perversion, what we had, so to speak, built well straight. It was this same ferment of sin that their good deeds had mixed up with whom the Lord blamed by the voice of the prophet, saying to them, "Go to Bethel and act like ungodly ones." - St. Gregory the Great, Homily 22-
Hey Bojan. Regarding the apparent changing in dogma over the years, what if the Church was being led by the Holy Spirit (revelation is ongoing, right?) and therefore dogma can be developed like that. Just so long as it doesn't violate our original and key beliefs as Christians?
Ustashis were the worst plague, mind-damaged killers and the catholic church in those times showed that Even the religion can make horrible things to his own brothers, myself as an orthodox, ex-catholic pray to god for forgiveness on the catholic church for the sins and the mistakes that were made
As a Catholic Croat, I am sorry for what we have done to you, we are brothers and we should stay united. I have a lot of family living in Argentina, most of them coming from well established Ustaše. The clergy was many times forced by the government to forgive evem though they disagreed. There is a story about a man that lived during the Nazi occupation of Croatia (I know Croatia was semi independent but who cares) in my town, he had a bet with his friend who could kill more serbs in one day with a "srbosjek" (don't check out what that means its horrific) and the numbers were well in the hundreds if not even thousands. Just had to get this off my chest. Iz Hrvatske s dobrim zeljama 😁
At least you’re using facts to speak your argument instead of blindly lobbing mean things against the Church. As for all of these awful things, all I can say is that I’m sorry. We need to mend the Church, but that is indeed a great task.
Dear Bojan. Again I'd like to point out that what you call protestant, is mostly American baptists. I don't blame you for that because they call themselves protestant and they are very loud. But as I've explained somewhere else, sectarian baptists were around even before the reformation. I was born into the reformed church and because I like you very much I want to point out that we have some things in common: 1. Persecution by the Roman Catholic Church. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Bartholomew%27s_Day_massacre and 2. Persecution by the communists. This is happening currently in the country I come from. But of course I don't want to be your friend because we have common "enemies" but because we serve the same Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. :)
Do you have any resources that say that Baptists were from before then? I've heard people say that we were the first denomination, so I've been trying to look into it. God bless :)
@@snlescaille Traditional Baptist historians write from the perspective that Baptists had existed since the time of Christ. However, the Southern Baptist Convention passed resolutions rejecting this view in 1859. Proponents of the Baptist successionist or perpetuity view consider the Baptist movement to have existed independently from Roman Catholicism and prior to the Protestant Reformation. - Compare McBeth, H Leon (1987), The Baptist Heritage, Nashville: Broadman Press, pp. 59-60. The Baptists up until today hinge their wagon on the the Reformation in order to gain legitimation. As far as I can tell.
In Catholicism doctrine cannot change but it can be further developed. A great example of this is the Arian controversy. Catholics recognized his teachings as a clear innovation and rejected it. However, they also developed the Church’s true doctrine so that it could better combat the heresy. This deeper understanding was necessary to protect the Church’s deposit of faith from actual deformations. These developments are examples of an ever-richer understanding of revealed truths as well as a means by which the Church defends those truths against the challenges of the age.
For anyone who cares, the Catholic religion has always been a bad egg. Emperor Constantine still worshipped the Roman gods even as he claimed to worship YHWH. This is why so many ancient pagan holidays have been 'Christianised' such as halloween, saturnalia (christmas), and Passover's replacement easter (ishtar - ashtoreth - oh crap that's the pagan godess YHWH was really angry about in the old testament) and genocidal practices the popes had toward anyone who threatened their power, like anyone who dared translate the Bible into the local languages so people could read YHWH's Word themselves and not be brainwashed by the Catholic tyrants. Then came the crusades, which did some good, such as protecting Europe from the Muslims and so forth, but also did a lot of bad, such as the abuse of civilian populations. There is so much pagan and occultic symbolism in the Catholic Church and they teach a more salvation by works doctrine as well. Most Catholics I've met have been very, very nice people, but they do not understand what they are adhereing to.
I am as your average american casually aware of efforts of the RC and the pope’s in past centuries to force Catholicism on East European countries up to ww2. But I am also aware of orthodox efforts in Russia and eastern bloc countries. Both religions have long record of wrongs.
So, eastern cathol ic is like Latin church. Pls. Explain. Ah donnot agree with Latin church. A lot of my people are eastern orthodox or Roman ltin Catholic. Please explain.
The last point - the persecution of Serbs by Croats and in particular that cardinal now declared a Blessed - what make you of King Alexander, and the Kingdom of Yugoslavia? This sounds like a very messy topic that should have been examined to the highest degree before a cause of canonisation was begun. Great clashing nationalist movements, oppression of Croats by Austria, then by Serbs, then they retaliate against Serbs... Mayhaps we should've let things cool down a little so we could look at the lives of these people more objectively. Like we did with St. Junipero Serra.
@KOCOBO JE SRBIJA ! So I understand. Now. This history is all new to me, so I'm largely out of my depth. To me it sounds like some overzealous Croats were trying to make up for hundreds of years of being dominated. Kind of like the Spanish marching into the New World. Yet the fact that the Croats forced the locals to "mumble Latin over a wafer" seems wrong to me, less like the Spanish, but because you don't do that to Christians who only are schismatic.
Moreover, the beatification of this implicated cardinal tells me one of two things. Either canonisation doesn't necessarily have anything to do with excellent personal holiness. Or the papacy can be wrong in declaring a martyr. And if St. Mark of Ephesus is a saint in our Church, and St. Genesius is a saint at all, I'd say the first is probably true. The second... might also be true.
There is one major fallacy in your viewpoint. We are all schismatics, Catholics and Orthodox. The original Church no longer exists because the original Church was not divided. Granted, union with Rome is probably the best option because the Church fathers were adamant about it but as for the original Church, it no longer exists. All of Heaven is pained by this scandal and the reunion of the Churches most likely will not happen until Parousia. However, both the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church are simultaneously in the right and in the wrong. Both are paradoxically the one true Church founded by Jesus Christ. Who could dare claim that Jesus Christ did not establish the Church at Rome? Who could dare claim that Jesus Christ did not establish the Church at Alexandria? Et cetera.
Leif Borg I’m not going to watch that because my Orthodox friends tell me to stay away from Dyer as he is a hyperdox radical who does not represent the views of all of Orthodoxy
Leif Borg In AD 445 it was declared by the bishop of Rome: “"Our Lord Jesus Christ . . . established the worship belonging to the divine [Christian] religion. . . . But the Lord desired that the sacrament of this gift should pertain to all the apostles in such a way that it might be found principally in the most blessed Peter, the highest of all the apostles. And he wanted his gifts to flow into the entire body from Peter himself, as if from the head, in such a way that anyone who had dared to separate himself from the solidarity of Peter would realize that he was himself no longer a sharer in the divine mystery" Pope Leo I, Letters, 10:2-3 Do some research, the Church Fathers were unanimous in saying similar or greater things.
@@john1212333333333333 Look man, you saying that Rome and the Orthodox being both is schism and the Church just doesn't exist anymore is ridiculous. There was and still is one Church. Remember the great schism? Rome left. Without the cult of personality surrounding the office of the bishop of Rome, Catholicism falls completely apart. That's not even to mention how Rome doesn't even believe in the essence/energy distinction. I've done my research. That's why I am Orthodox. Also do not bother flinging any quotes saying: 'oh, muh keys' or 'b-b-but muh papal (incert 18th century late dogma here)' because it's not getting at the history or doctrine of the matter. By the way, the patriarchate of Antioch also has Saint Peter as its apostolic founder. Guess that means there must be two popes then huh? I wonder why Antioch doesn't try to seize control over the whole church if he also has the succession of Peter. If I sound upset, its because I am. I'm somewhat tired of Catholics not even willing to consider how they might be wrong or even taking a honest look at any critiques presented to them. It's like getting some Protestant to believe in that things extra-biblical can be legitimate, like the the ecumenical councils for example. I was Protestant myself for a long time, got invited to a catholic bible study, struggled with it. Notice I said struggled. I acknowledge what truth was there, and sought to be catholic myself for a short time. Having said that, I went back into church history and found the fullness of the truth, the Orthodox Faith. I just say these things to prompt you into thinking more critically, hoping you'd also find the fullness of faith in Christ.
I do not want to mitigate the atrocities that were commited by the ustashi, nonetheless atrocities were were also committed by the chetniks. I understand your frustration but to me it seem you have duble standards.
An entire state in collaboration with its Church committing atrocities vs paramilitary groups committing atrocities? :-) And no chetniks were canonized, if I recall correctly.
Katolička crkva u Hrvata nikad nije podržavala nepravdu nad svojim stanovnicima, uključujući Srbe, Židove i hrvatske intelektualce koji su se protivili režimu. Alojzije Stepinac nije bio onakav kakvim ti se čini. Njegovom angažiranosti mnoga sprska djeca spašena su od režima. Što se tiče šutnje, nisam upoznat sa djelovanjem Srpske pravoslavne crkve, ali, koliko vidim, nije spriječila zločine nad Hrvatima. 1918.-1995., a i do dana današnjeg. Gdje su žrtve, gdje su bačeni? Što se četnika tiče - Drinske mučenice. Nemoj dozvoliti da tvoj pogled na povijest stvara negativnu sliku drugima prema Hrvatima Bog je Istina i ako je tvoje mišljenje koje širiš lažno, a to ni ne znaš, onda je jasno u kojem to smjeru ide. Proispitaj i nemoj prestati proispitivati. Možda se Bog smiluje i napokon se sazna cijela i čista istina o grijesima nad našim narodima. Volim te, brate, s tobom Bog.
I wonder if you were born a Croat, you'd still hold the same views? Are there many Croatian Orthodox, or is it just ethnic tribalism that informs the truth of one's religion?
I wasn't born a Croat, so don't know what to tell you. I don't deal with hypothetical Bojans. There are some Croat Orthodox but not many - there are more Catholic Serbs (still a minority in Serbia).
@@BanterWithBojan I never would have imagined Catholic Serbs, Serbs seem pretty solidly Orthodox compared to Catholics in general- would there be some major reason why there'd be Catholic Serbs, or is it the run-of-the-mill personal conversions?
@@ioannispolemarkhos7364 I would say that, in general, people on Balkans very rarely change their religion (regardless of who they are) as religion forms a fundamental part of our national identity as well. However, if there's one specific cause, it would be marriage to a person of different religion.
I know our churches will reunite one day, I just pray it happens within our lifetimes. We are all Brothers and Sisters, the family is stronger together!
but the Catholic Church did not commit the atrocities, it was individual evil people who identified as Catholic, including clergy...no actual Catholic would do such obscene evil, even if they were baptised etc as Catholic. can you discuss the atrocities commited by 'Orthodox' Serbians in Bosnia when Jugoslavia broke up?
Hitler had a fascination with Mount Athos during WWII, so maybe he had an icon of him commissioned or something. If the icon is still there, the monks probably don't care or keep it as a historical memento. Then again, I've never heard of this.
I am extremely regretful of how Serbs were treated by Catholics as a Catholic myself, it truly is a shame upon our Church that we must live with eternally, I honestly hope and pray nothing like that ever happens again between our Churches, thank you for your composure in this Bojan, God bless you brother
I tried for awhile to think of something to say, and I think you said it better than I could have. I'm Catholic too, and it hurts to know that members of my Church did such an evil thing so recently.
Jamestown truly it does brother, but let us not wallow in our own sorrow at our reputation, as that’s selfish, let us instead strive to repair what we have broken
Reck Fredreck begom gadolig
The Serbs as a people have plenty of stains whether they are Catholic or orthodox. If you remember the recent Serbian atrocities in an attempt to purify greater Serbia of those not ethnically Serbian. President Clinton sent air strikes in Kosovo to support other EU efforts to halt killings. This whole Serbian campaign was underlined by orthodoxy and an attempt to wipe out Muslim influences. For Bojan to say Orthodox Church was ignorant of national aspirations is not accurate.
I didn't say it was ignorant. Also thank you for depleted uranium, lost a number of people I know already.
I can understand your feelings 100%, Bojan. Personally, I feel the same way; I had family members killed by Ustaše forces, and combine that with doctrinal differences, converting to Catholicism is out of the question.
On a much lighter note, I've been loving the frequent uploads on this channel, but don't push yourself too hard! Also, love the way the icons are turning out. You're really getting a knack for ikonopisanje.
As a Catholic, it is harmfull to know that. I feel real shame and I myself want to ask your forgiveness and to all Serbians.
It's nit the "Catholics" that did this horrible things. I mean they said about themselves "we are Catholics" but really.. if you are a Christian, doesn't what kind of Christian, you would never do anything like that.
It's not your shame or guilt, and these people have a big problem when they stand before God, such as we all.
Greetings fron an Orthodox Serb. God bless all good people with good hearts.
Don’t ask forgiveness for something u didn’t do. Let’s just enjoy gaining knowledge.
Precisely. You didn't do it and you wouldn't agree to it. :-)
Православац IС-ХС
I just learned recently that Professor Nicholas Tesla’s entire extended family, his brothers, (all priests) their children (sons also priests) and grandchildren were completely wiped out, to the youngest child, by Croatian Fascists.
He outlived them all by two years.
There’s a lot of debate on whether the Professor died in good standing with the Church, if he had gotten fully over his dabbling in Buddhist metaphysics and the like.
I have this idea for an icon to give and answer:
On the bottom, his aged body had just died, all alone on his hotel bed, not to be discovered for more than a day by the staff. It looks small and distant from the middle and top scene, as his much larger and now younger soul is surrounded by his family, his brothers and nephews in full priestly vestments, their sons in full alter boy attire, their sisters, mothers and grandmothers in attendance, all have Martyrs’ halos, and all have a hand on Nicholas, holding him up, praying to the Holy Spirit and the Theotokos to intercede on his behalf. The Holy Spirit is holding a halo by His beak, PERHAPS to be given to the Professor, if God Wills it.
It would leave us hopeful, but responsibly uncertain. I think that would cultivate the sort of attitude going forward that Serbs and Orthodox in general should cultivate in regard to those horrors.
As for Roman Catholics, I used to be one and am still Western Rite, and even now I regard Huge O’Flarretty as an inspiring hero for all Christians. He was an Archpriest serving directly under Pius 12th, and his action on behalf of Pius in comparison to how the Croatian bishops were behaving is fairly solid proof that they had been acting and collaborating entirely on their own since at least 1938, without Pius’s permission or knowledge. They were also able to take one crucial advantage out of their defeat and subsequent subjugation by the Soviets, it allowed THEM to look like the victims and obfuscate their crimes.
The worst part, to me, was JP2 just caving to Croatian pressure to declare that cardinal “Blessed”, when he, himself, had directly condemned Columbian priests for acting as partisans. The most ANY priest is allowed to do in a conflict is act as a chaplain, and an impartial one if their are Catholics dying on both sides he could minister to. Yet he Overlooked a cardinal that had been VERY hyperpartisan.
Sigh.
So it’s more about that than what originally happened.
@@ColdAss000 very beautiful comment, your slovak catholic brothers are supporting you
I'm a Catholic, but I did not find this video to be offensive. You kept your composure very well regarding this sensitive subject.
Thank you!
@@BanterWithBojan I'm sorry this cruelty happened to your people, Bojan. The people who did this weren't Christians. Thank you for this information.
I can't imagine this is easy to talk about. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. (On a lighter note, I had a good laugh at your impression of the priest at 11:26). God bless you, Bojan!
Thank you for sharing Serbian history with us.
In the west all history is catholic history.
It is the history perpetrated by the catholic church.
I have a degree in history and it wasn't until I became Orthodox that I realized how skewed the history in the west is by catholicism.
We found a history book on Byzantium history written by an Orthodox professor at the University of Wisconsin, the true history of the European world.
Glory to Jesus Christ!
While Europe was becoming Europe we know today, Serbia was its fence, the impenetrable wall, the wild thorns around the gentle rose. - saint nikolaj velimirovic..
You gotta tell us What book?
@@RickDeckard2 Volume one & two: History of the Byzantine History by Professor Alexander Alexandrovich Vasiliev.
Originally written in Russian, copywrite was renewed in 1980 by the University of Wisconsin.
We found it on Amazon about two to three years ago.
It is the Byzantine view of European history.
Christ is in our midst.
The fact that you come from a nonreligious family reminds me of myself. My mother is a cafeteria Catholic who only started practicing for the first time in years back in 2015/2016 (it probably had to do with her then-finances admiration for Pope Francis), and my father is a lapsed Quaker who adheres to neo-Arian theology. Although, unlike you, I apostatized as a teen, reverted to Catholicism in 2016, and now I'm an Orthodox catechumen
I should also mention that I love your videos! They've been very helpful in learning about the Orthodox faith
Thank you so much, Orthodox Dude. :- ) Glad you found Orthodoxy! :-)
God bless you, I love to see secular Westerner Americans (I presume you are) find Orthodoxy!
An Orthodox Dude story of my life accept both my parents are atheist lmao
I am a devout Catholic, and I have no objection to your choosing to be Orthodox. You are my brother in Christ, and I was saddened to hear of the evil committed in the name of Catholicism during the 1940s, just as I am saddened to hear of any atrocities committed in the name of any Christian religion. I am afraid there are too many -- far, far too many -- people proclaiming to be Christians who have no genuine interest in or love for or devotion to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If they truly did, they would not commit atrocious acts, with or without committing them in the name of their religion. I love your videos. I don't agree with some of the things that you say, but your presentation is always worthwhile. God bless.
Thank you for your comment David. :-) I wish us Christians would focus more on non-Christians as opposed to other Christians.
@@BanterWithBojan why don't you?
@@tanta5827 Why don't I what?
I became Catholic in 1994 I was 31 years old. I was left so unsatisfied and could not get over things like papal infallibility that I went to three masses and never went back I am now wish to convert to the Orthodox church because I believe it is true and it is the Church of Jesus and the apostles. It has not changed in 2,000 years and never will.
Glory to God! I am currently in the process of becoming Orthodox in thr Greek American Archdiocese! Feel free to message me letting me know where you are in your journey currently and if you have any questions!
@@orthodoxemperor9757 Hi there, any updates on your journey?
@@orthodoxemperor9757 Can you please help me. Right now I'm in the process of researching Orthodoxy and thinking of conversion. However in my country there is very small number of people who believe in Orthodoxy, which is part of the main obstacle I'm facing with (eg. How to find friends)
(The latest I've seen the mass for Pavelić being served is 2016)
I am looking forward to part II.
Bible Illustrated Hands Speaking of Catholic/Orthodox schism, I’ve noticed that St. Maximus the Greek was born in and partially educated in Greece, which is far as I can tell was Orthodox at the time, and then later finished his education in Italy, where he became a Dominican monk. He later left the Dominicans to become an Orthodox monk in Greece, which led on to him being sent to Russia by his abbot.
Was it normal back then for people who travelled to just flit back and forth between Orthodoxy and Catholicism, depending on where they were located?
Bible Illustrated Hands / Have you every thought of the Anglican Church?
@@ndkiwikid this is because of the unique historical time he lived in. He was Greek and so Orthodox by birth, but from the isles under Venetian Catholic control. As such it isn't surprising as a promising young intellectual he went West. Remember that Florence Ferrara had "officially" been recognized and a lot of Byzantine expats lived in Italy where they contributed to the arts and Renaissance. So him winding up as a Dominican isn't surprising as the schism was a lot more fluid. However he ultimately found his way to orthodoxy and the Church honestly probably never considered him as having apostatized which I agree with. If you were living under such complex and opaque political conditions you'd find it hard to navigate too, and the Lord and Church both had mercy on this saintly man. I hope this answered your questions brother, St Maximus intercede for us sinners.
@@ktanner438 As far as I can tell from my reading, many Greeks entered into communion with Rome at that time. Did the Venetians not require the churches in their territories to commune with Rome? No one can be either Catholic or Orthodox by birth -that requires baptism. I'm still hoping to find information on whether the church was either extremely lax about enforcing the boundaries of the schism, or if Maximus underwent a formal conversion process once or twice.
your rant is terribly true Bojan. let's pray to forgive and also to be forgiven by God. similar things have happened in my birth country lebanon during the civil war. i want to pray because i believe and have hope in Christ always.
I am a Roman Catholic who is convinced of its truth. I have always enjoyed you and your work, and shared it widely. It is a joy to see the many ways in which our two Churches agree and the history we share. The Eucharist is no less true because of these atrocities, the Russian Orthodox are no less a real church because of the suppression of the Ukrainian Catholic Church. There is sin in a church made of sinners, dear brother in Christ. I am sad for your sadness, do not let it get in the way of the Grace God is giving you. I think you are a great force for the unity of the Body. There is plenty of guilt to go around; it reminds us so clearly of why we need a Saviour. God bless you my brother in Christ.
Thank you so much for the kind words, Michael! :-)
What the Catholic Poles did to Ukrainians is shameful. Forcing them to convert and even killing and persecuting those who didn't. Eastern Catholicism has bad history with my people. There is a catholic saint who went around killing orthodox people then was called a martyr when my people defended themselves. Catholicism is the biggest church only because they bullied and killed everyone else.
You should protect your drawings. They’re really good put them in a folder where you can find them. You should get Bristol bored it’s stronger.
Bristol boards wouldn't work as there will be literally thousands of drawings and storing them would become a major issue. I put them in an ordinary see through folder and put them in a dark place (these are the drawings I haven't foldered yet).
I’m sorry for the Serbs , you are probably the most oppressed Slavic group
Wouldn't get into oppression Olympics :D
You're welcome to your opinion. Heaven knows I used to have some nasty opinions concerning Catholics too. Just try to remember though that "love is willing the Good of the other." That is to say, as Catholics believe that Catholicism is the truth, and the truth is good, therefore Catholics must will everyone to receive that truth and adhere to it. Likewise I assume that you as an Orthodox Christian will the whole world to be Orthodox.
Your argument is nonsense. The supporters of any cause can use it.
@@tyxikosgatopoulos3094 yes. And the supporters of any cause are free to try to persuade as many people to that cause as possible - as long as they respect the God given rights of others.
This is called postmodernism
Sometimes I wish I wasn't Orthodox because, at least in America, the community is so fractured and small and mostly old people. I love old people but I wish I had Orthodox peers my age. That and I went to a Presbyterian school most of my life and that is the culture I'm used to. I would never leave the Church but I'm envious of the fellowship present among other churches
The age tends to depend a lot on where you are. In my city, most of the larger parishes have a lot of convert families and have pretty healthy youth and young adult demographics. My parish has not only been growing, but the average age of the congregation has gone down considerably over the last few years. To the point where our priest pointed out recently that most of us in the choir are 30 or younger. The parishes some of my friends go to are also fairly young and convert heavy
I'm sorry to hear about the brutal crimes the Western Church condoned and participated in, man. Never knew about that dark chapter in Catholic history. We truly are fallen creatures in a fallen world, aren't we?
It really scares me is when I see that part of me flare up when arguing with political or religious opponents. Normally I have to get away to pray for forgiveness and calm down.
Raúl Mercado- Yeah, these things are truly despicable. The human condition naturally goes against the love and Grace of Christ, and this is one of the most heinous examples in all of history. Genuinely evil people.
That is what we are supposed to do, Raul. We all have fallen-human tendencies, I think, but also the mark of a person growing in Christ, as they say, is to do what you said-get away to pray instead of acting on our anger, etc. I speak to myself first.
What are your thoughts on the Oriental Orthodox Church and the Assyrian Church of the East?
Thanks for all of your content, I love you videos (:
Thank you! :-) Will answer! :-)
Answered it, sorry for mispronouncing your name! ua-cam.com/video/QWQ-xoOiufU/v-deo.html
Our country was occupied by Spain for 3 centuries under the guidance of the Roman Church. Catholicism was deeply rooted to the majority of Christian Filipinos that despite the atrocities of the West then and now, we stayed Catholic... and that sucks.
As much as I wanted to move to the Orthodoxy, Orthodox churches here are few and far in between. But as you said in a previous video about Notre Dame, generally, it is not that bad.
There is a great danger when ideology and religion get mixed. In the case of Croatia it was extreme nationalism that became more important than religion to some people. Peoples and nations, however valuable, are still only creatures. If anyone sells their soul for these, they end up serving the prince of this world instead of God. Secular ideology can easily become a kind of idolatry. I would argue that people who were responsible for these crimes were not doing so for the sake of their catholicism, but for the sake of earthly agenda. Hopefully nothing like these events ever happen again.
You shouldn’t judge a religion by those who break its rules, but rather by those who follow it.
I think you should account for both, but generally I'd agree.
Rumia What? Why should you be held accountable for people who claim to belong to the same religion as you?? If I misunderstood your comment, forgive me.
Catholics do definitely have a darker history, but we must forgive. The important thing is that the Catholics can learn from past mistakes which I think in many ways they have. It is important that these kinds of things never happen again.
For those wondering what specifically Ustaša crimes looked like:
The Ustaše liked to wrap people in barbed wire and throw them into deep pits. My great aunt lived near one of theses sites and watched these unspeakable crimes happen every day, watching people march to their deaths and be murdered in this brutal manner. The whole war, she feared they would come get her and her husband (both Serbs) and throw them in too.
The Ustaše made a sport out of personally slitting the throats of Serb prisoners. They did this so much their fingers came to hurt from gripping the knife, so they invented a knife strapped to their wrist to avoid this problem, called a Srbosijek, Serbcutter. They preferred this over gassing or shooting them because 1) bullets and gas aren’t reusable and the Ustaše were on a tighter budget than the Nazis 2) they were sadistic and this was more personal. In the Nazi camps, individual murders were done by hand, mass murder was de-personalized, among the Ustaše, mass murder was done personally.
The Ustaše had the only children-only extermination camp in Europe to my knowledge (to be clear, the Nazis slaughtered children en masse as well, just those kids got to spend time with adults who would protect them at least a bit rather than being isolated in a specialized camp).
Because Serbs were too large a group in the so-called “Independent state of Croatia” to slaughter all of without the industrial murder of the Nazis, official Ustaša policy was to convert a third to Catholicism by force, largely by raising kidnapped young Serb children as Croats, though since the foster parents knew the kids’ ancestry this was often also a horrendous experience full of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse, much like how Canada treated white-passing indigenous children in the 60s scoop. Then to expel a third forcibly, though the Ustaše never really got to this part of the plan, horrifically enough, modern Croatia’s army went on to forcibly expel about 1/2 of the country’s Serb population in 1995 during the Croatian war of independence, mostly civilian farmers, and they even shelled the refugee caravans as they fled, these people have still been bureaucratically barred from returning and their stolen homes either handed out to Croats or left to rot. Finally, one third of the Serbs in the country were to be executed, though it seems they’d have been ok with executing more. They managed to kill around half their desired amount of Serbs.
Another personal example. When the Nazis and their allies invaded Yugoslavia, my great uncle, then a soldier, along with his friends from the army, emptied the arsenal of their barracks and walked back to my family’s home village to ask my great grandpa, a well respected man in the local community, for permission to base a resistance group in the area. Having received assurances from the newly created Independent State of Croatia that any Yugoslav soldier who handed in their weapons and surrendered would be spared and go back to their life, my great grandpa convinced them to surrender. Having given up their weapons, the men were told by the fascist official to go into the village’s Serbian Orthodox Church and pray for forgiveness for thinking to take up arms against their government. They then locked the doors of the church and lit it on fire, burning the men inside alive.
Regarding Ustaša crimes against non-Serb groups: much like the Nazis, they liked to target Jews and Roma (Gypsies), as well as the occasional Croatian political dissident. However, the Serbs, as the largest group in the area the Nazis had given them (consisting more or less of Croatia, Bosnia, and a sliver of Serbia), and as their perceived historic enemies, were the prime focus, especially since Jews and Roma were often handed over to the Nazis.
Regarding whether the Ustaše really were “more brutal than the Nazis”. It depends. I’d say that the average Ustaša was more brutal than the average Nazi, but I will note that the degree of brutality among both was such that it’s almost pointless to compare, and I will also note that some Nazis, especially camp commandants, REALLY would’ve given the Ustaše a run for their money. I mean shit, there’s the woman who made leather products out of Jewish skin and the many Nazi officers who bought it. Again, I’d just say that the % of extra monstrous sadists rather than run of the mill heartless murderers, was somewhat higher among the Ustaše than the Nazis.
And about Aloisuis Stepinac. The gist of him was that he didn’t hate Jews but was perfectly happy to support the genocide against Serbs and Roma. So he did a bit of work saving Jews in Croatia, which is what most people want to canonize him over (though certainly Croatia has a larger amount of neo Nazis than most countries because the Nazi puppet state was the first time they were “independent” in a thousand years so there’s nostalgia towards it among an unusually large minority of Croats, so some privately want to canonize him BECAUSE of his involvement in the genocide against Serbs), but was also actively working at “hospitals” and “orphanages” where he was involved in the torture (both direct and through things like starvation) of Serb children and was extremely friendly with the leaders of fascist Croatia and familiar with, and generally unopposed to, what they were doing.
This is not to say that all Croats are some kind of nazi monsters, of course. While most Croats at the time, like most Germans, stayed quiet and many today like to downplay or ignore the Croatian holocaust, both at the time and today, most Croats, like most people, are good people. There was, for example, a Croatian Red Cross worker that risked her life to get kids out of the Croatian concentration camps and saved hundreds of lives. As another personal anecdote, my grandma’s village in Herzegovina is Serb majority and is next to a Croat majority village. The Croats in that village helped their Serb neighbours hide, and arranged with their parents to temporarily claim kids from the Serb village as their own so the government wouldn’t take them to camps. There was a common practice after WWII of people from one village having someone from the other be their best man at their wedding or be their kid’s godfather, both of which are, in Serbian culture, seen as ways of legally/spiritually making someone a member of your family. Sadly these good relations broke down in the Bosnian war in the 90s because of the actions of soldiers of each ethnicity from outside of these villages stationed in them, who simply treated members of the other group as enemies to kill.
Wow did they turn people into soap too? What about the masturbation machines?
@ They did make soap out of human fat. Some SS units in Eastern Europe did this as well. Never heard of masturbation machines though.
I am sorry about the rough history between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. I can't imagine what God would say about some of the things we have done
We'll find out, eventually. :-)
The Balkans have a long and sad history as has all of mankind. We need to pray for unity under Jesus Our Lord as Orthodox Christians, under the correct belief of Orthodoxy; His true bride. I served in the Balkans during the implementation of the Dayton Accords and we focused on being fair to all sides and we did our best to work for peace and did not attack people but kept things in accordance with the agreement all sides signed up to for the peace agreement. It seemed that things were better on all sides but I saw the aftermath first hand. The horrors mentioned are real and a very sad indictment of all mankind. This why the monks that emphasize the Jesus Prayer are so true and correct. Only the precious prayer of Our Lord's Name can burn the legions of demons behind these bestial acts and keep us safe from becoming the agents of the demons.
I think that only the Lord Himself can untangle the sad knot that is the Balkans, but still, we haven't got it as bad as Middle East has it.
You verbalized your views perfectly. You are 100% correct about the Eastern Catholics and the way its being used to attract the current Orthodox faithful. Regarding the atrocities by the Ustasa regime and the Catholic church's complicity in their crimes, its is horrendous and the Vatican should beg forgiveness.
Eh, it is what it is... hope it gets resolved eventually, but I am not an optimist when it comes to these things.
@@BanterWithBojan I agree, I dont think a resolution will be anytime soon, especially on unity. Personally I'm happy being Orthodox and in particular Serbian Orthodox, although maybe I'm not the best example but I keep trying. Having said that I do have an open and curious mind about the other churches, whether Eastern or Oriental orthodox, or even Catholic. Great channel btw.
Thank you for your video. I had been searching the saints that were both Catholic and Orthodox. I figured they were Saints from before the Great split. I am a Cradle Orthodox, my birth Church. The church was founded by mostly Russian andother Eastern European refugees. One lady who had known me since my birth told me recently that "They all tried to kill us. She named many countries and ethnic groups. She had never spoken of the war before. I am glad I am Orthodox from my beginnings and my ancestry as far as I know. Much love to you in Christ. You teach me so much.
"Say a mass for Satan", I almost spit up my snack!
As a Catholic I feel very ashamed for what our Croat, it shames me to no end but I must call them thus, brethren did to the Serbian people. I thank you very much, Bojan, for giving us this information and I pray the memory of this scandal prevents me from ever picking sides candidly behind my church as if it were a team in a petty football match when the issue of the Schism comes forward. But at the same time I really wish more Orthodox people like you who see the importance of Unity as our Lord prayed for (even in the way you spoke about in another video, unity of action and will, while not theological let alone hierarchical,) would stand more firmly and actively against so many of your own brothers who really don't want anything to do with us. I know the leaders of my Church have acted in the past, and oftentimes continue to act, too politically motivated as if it were all an inhuman game of power and I can see that keeping your distance and bearing freshly in mind all those past condemnations we hurled at each other is a logical strategy for the Orthodox to take against our sometimes shallow and rushed peddling of oecumenism. But if Unity were so dispensable, Our Lord's words on John 17:20-21 would be idle, which is beyond sacrilegious, wilful division is a terrible scandal of a sin in itself, one that unlike a burst of fanatical zeal, keeps on going with full or timid acquiescence of our collective, discerning and unrepentant wills, and that wil be on both our churches when He returns.
“My dad’s an atheist and my mom never practiced religion” SAME
I came to the Catholic Church from Protestantism. Guess I'm more Western or something.
Commander Data - yea.
Orthodox Western Rite is wide open
O K - many protestants also become a Catholic. I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here. A lot of protestants become atheists and Mormons, does that make then true?
O K I think (dangerously) you mean that Protestants Convert to Orthodoxy looking for truth and in the quest for truth politics isn’t important.
It’s a surprise to those searching when they are turned away by Parishes unfriendly to converts and ethnic enclaves without English services. (Catholics have ethnic ghettos in too!). Culture often supersedes Church (Spirituality).
Lambdoc Bungo ROCOR, Serbian And Antiochian Archdiocese’s have Western Rite including Monasteries (there’s a Western Rite Antiochian Monastery I visited here in Colorado. Very hospitable to everyone.)
As a Croatian and as a Roman catholic by birth, I can't say there weren't any crimes commited against the Serbs and even parts of Catholic clergy was involved... Im very sorry for the crimes that were done..
Now before any fellow Croat slams me and says Im trying to make Serbs look better then us or make Catholics look bad... No Im just saying sorry and aknowledging crimes commited from out side. Im sure any normal Orthodox Serb who has rational thinking would aknowledge their own crimes from their side.
Bojan I know that this video is 4 years old and I want to say you're videos are always made with good intentions and I wish you the best, živel još 100 let ! ✝️❤️☦️
Bad relations between East and West appear to have begun with the Massacre of the Latins in 1182. Following that event, some 4,000 Latins were sold in slavery to the Turk. The Orthodox Church currently teaches that those 4,000 Latins were not validly baptised, so presumably selling them to heathens is nothing to complain about. Have I understood Orthodox doctrine correctly?
Hi Bojan. What would you think the proper way for reconciliation will be between Serbian Orthodox and Croatian Catholics? Or between the Catholic and Orthodox churches in general for issues like this? Do you hold to the idea “forgive but don’t forget,” or do you not forgive the murderers either? I am wondering because my family too is from a place where brutal massacres and persecutions happened between different ethnicities holding on to different Christian denominations. I’ve pondered many of these questions, and I am interested in seeing the opinions of yours.
As Ukranian we have another trouble with Greko-Catholics or Eastern Catholicism. This church become after Berestejska Union (Берестейска унія 1596 р.). Because economic and education oppressions by Polish people and Roman church. The main Ukranian people thought about this union like occupation of our Orthodox Church. But this union church are part of our history, culture and loved by western Ukranians. So it's all complicate with our churches
5:06 Well, i think it's not quite like that. It's because when we think a person is a saint, he deserves respect, and I don't think it's not good to say "we won't worship him just because he had a different tradition." I think it's just wrong, and I'm glad we , Catholics can worship even Orthodox saints, because they also deserve our respect.
That is a very modern, Vatican 2-era stance. Beforehand it was strictly for the purposes of converting Orthodox.
@@BanterWithBojan of course before, but now is church totally different. All churches was worse in history, they were corrupted, but now, it's something different
@@BanterWithBojan and there are many Catholic saints whom the Orthodox Church recognizes as saints, even though the saints had nothing to do with the Orthodox Church, but I do not mind, and I am glad that the Orthodox Church has recognized that these people are worthy of worship
@@takstesimelizvolitnekohojineho Can you list some such saints that the Orthodox Church recognizes without them having nothing to do with the Orthodox Church?
@@BibleIllustrated ofcourse, wait a moment...
I love the way you say "hands".😊
What do you think of the Oriental Orthodox Church
There are no words for what they did! I can't think of a word bad enough to explain it. I was taught about this in school along with concentration camps and Hitler they were both as bad as each other.
Please don't diss an entire group of people. I was raised as a conservative congregational list Protestant where I was baptized. I would not have the love for Jesus my Lord or much of anything else if I hadn't had that upbringing of a strong Foundation that is the trinity the Holy Trinity and my church believed it as much as he Orthodox Church believes it and knows who goes where unlike the Catholics or I should say who comes from whom!
Please pray for me
Will do, Aristotle! :-)
@@BanterWithBojan and for me, I'm Nadav Chomsky (ch like the Polish people do)
@@נדב_חומסקי i read it nadab lol
Could you do a video on Josaphat Kuntsevych and Uniates?
It is a constant change because God still inspires people even in present time and He is Continually revealing his will to his elect!
I am grateful for your channel
I, at times, have thought about being catholic. But as an orthodox, I can't get into their liturgy. It's so bland.
Second, the prayer that goes "What is lacking in Christ's suffering I make up in my own body. "
Like wut. 😳 There was and is nothing lacking in Christ. And certainly nothing i could add to it.
That's just heresy at the millionth degree.
I have spoken with a Russian Orthodox lady with whom I am friends with on this matter. She once told me that Roman Catholicism was a spiteful, hateful, murderous religion, intent on destroying Orthodoxy and all the East, and cited many occasions, and this event was among them. I hope and I pray that in some way I have tried to reconcile our Churches, and I hope I have shown her and all my Orthodox brothers and sisters that Roman Catholicism loves the Orthodox Church as sister might love her sister; for the bitterness shown in the past from Rome to all the East breaks the heart of Christ, and Our Lord knows it breaks my own as well.
Most of it is small differences that can be worked out in an ecumenical council. Bringing back both east and west would be incredible.
Sadly, two big things (papal supremacy and the Filioque) can hardly be resolved.
@@BanterWithBojan filioque was put in to stop Arian heresy. Bartholomew is meeting with Francis in 5 years to discuss everything. It would probably be like the Eastern Catholics situation. It was like that for years and years before the schism anyway. Do some research on actually why they split. Most of it was just because the emperor of Constantinople was in a power struggle with the bishop of Rome.
No tolerance for evil.
Isn't religion a Western term?
I have heard some priests refer to Orthodoxy as a "way".
Could you elaborate your views on Anglicanism sometime, perhaps? They claim to be Apostalic (i.e. priests and Bishops) and Catholic and the still have the Sacrements and Liturgy but their history is complicated by the Reformation and Henry VIII. It's really interesting because Protestants are usually seen as anti-priest, anti-liturgy, and anti-sacrement even and there is this wierd admiration and connection to the east I find in Anglicanism. Sometimes there's the phrase "orthodoxy of the west" though that is very controversial. But since bringing orthodoxy culturally into America seems to be a problem and we already have a Christian tradition, maybe an Anglican Orthodox can arise. Idk, I just find Anglicanism to be peculiar among the Protestants and maybe you might have some interesting thoughts.
Not converting to Catholicism because of what the Croats did to your ancestors seems justifiable to me, but would you also say that it's justified for a Croat to never convert to Orthodoxy because of what Serbs did to his ancestors? Or a Pole to never convert because of Russian/Soviet Imperialism? Is it ok for Ukrainians to leave the Orthodox Church because they're at war with Russia?
Also I don't think you're being completely honest about the history your people have with the Croatians. It is true that the Croats would invade Serb villages and kill all the firstborn sons, but it's also true that when the Croats went to Sunday Mass, the Serbs would bar the Church Doors and set it on fire while everyone from the Croat village was inside (I got this info from a Serb who fought the Ustase, if you're wondering). I respect you and your work Bojan but I don't think you're being fair on that last point.
I will answer the first part of your question in today's video.
As for the massacre, are you referring to this one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glina_massacres#May_1941
I don't know what event you're referring to. And I am being fair. Are you aware of all the crimes Croats were committing during the 40s, or did you just hear the sample I provided and went 'but what about that one time Serbs committed a crime during the 40s?'
@@BanterWithBojan No. I'm not trying to defend or minimize Fascist war crimes. I am skeptical because you seem to be implying that Serbians were just as oppressed (or even more so) than the Jews during the Holocaust.
1) If I am, so what?
2) And they were, in Croatia (that is - Serbs had it worse in Croatia than Jews had it in Germany, but I can't vouch if they had it worse than Jews in Croatia). Outside of Croatia, they had much better treatment by Nazis than the Jews had.
@@BanterWithBojan I grew Up Orthodox Jewish, but i find christianity intresting. Will not enter a catholic curch cuz Orthodox Judaisem forbids it due to the cruilty of catholics to jews from the crusades to the inquestion and onward. My grandfathers whole family was wiped out by nazis he survied 3 concentration camps including aushwitz. I knew the croats and poles were the worst antisemtes. It is shamefull they persecuted Orthodox chridtians as well. Terrible.
Question for next episode.
Do u think there will be a major world wide religious war eventually? What do Eastern Orthodox think about it happening?
If so would that unite Christian faiths ?
I'm so very sorry for what our Church did to your family and people during the war. Please forgive me for this sin. If it is OK, I will say prayers for your heart and your family and people and I will pray that our Church acknowledges our great sin against the Serb people. Once again, please accept my sincerest apologies. Please pray for our Church that we can come together in truth as well as the Great Truth that calls us all. 😥
I'm really sorry for wounds of Serbian nation have from Roman Catholic cryminals during WWII. I'm from Poland. Because of long list of atrocities made by Russia by centuries in Poland most of people have similar view of Orthodox Church as you have for Romans. Eg. after breaking by Moscow the peace treaty of Polyanovka in 1643 we even had had saing "Greek faith" as a synonym of perjury, deliberate failure to fulfill obligations etc. That's so sad.
Polak-katolik synonym (Polish=Catholic), somewhat alive to this day, was a retortion against very harsh 123-years partitions of Poland from late XVII to early XX c. Prussia was mailny protestant, Russia orthodox, third conqueror, multicultural Austro-Hungarian Empire was the kindest for us. I find it very sad that religion, especially Christianity is often used for babylonian purposes. I really like view of this kind of problems presented in @The Bible Project canal. You may like it, the have great content and stunning visuals :)
Anyway, could you share your thoughts about "Berserk" you've mentioned in one of your vlogs? I'm really curious what you think.
8:23 If the Serbian Patriarch would have sided with the Axis powers none this would have happened. The Germans would have probably protected all of Yugoslavia. Croats and Bosnians would have not been able to do what they did.
I’m not a Christian anymore but I really want to find out if and why Bojan became a Catholic.
I apologize to one and all, but most especially you for the harm & evil that was done in the name of the Catholic Church. To believe, even if only remotely, that the evils committed under Nazism is anyhow better than something else than Hell, is a sad statement indeed!
I also apologize for the person who asked if you would convert to Catholicism. That was wrong of them. God is traveling with you on your journey. IF He wants you in the Catholic Church, He will lead you to it. Wherever He leads you, know that He is with you, in His Mercy, always.
On a separate note: the unleavened bread of the Catholic Mass actually comes from the Jewish Passover Meal, which is the the meal that Jesus shared on the night He was betrayed... Even if, as some might say, it was not the proper Passover Seder, because it was the night before the Passover Sabbath, the bread would have been unleavened because Jewish Tradition is that all traces of leaven is to be removed from the house during the week prior to Passover.
Yet, as God sent Angels to Peter with unclean meat for him to eat, there is no need to feel that one bread, leavened or unleavened, is better than the other. Once consecrated, both are the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ, to be shared in memory of Him.
Love your videos, and as I said, I am so sorry for the pain and sorrow that was inflicted on your people in the name of the Catholic Church. Truly, they were of the lawless of whom Jesus said: "“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’" Mt7:21-23
I'm a Catholic, but I understand the Church has a mixed history. However, I still like the theology and what the Catholic church is capable of at its best.
Change change change...and they justify it by saying it is development of doctine.
Take the assumption of Mary, it fits perfectly well with the immaculate conception which by itself fits perfectly with the perpetual virginity...
It's about making sense. The Oriental Orthodox Churches would say the same, they would claim miaphysite to be true and original teaching taught by the church fathers and that the Eastern Orthodox Church is wrong, you don't think this is a question of development of doctrine as well?
Well the explanation was fine, the problem is there some which I disagree especially that the Roman Catholic Church was accused of changing leavened bread to unleavened bread.
That is not true, because since Apostolic times the Church of Rome has already been using unleavened bread in the Eucharist while in the East is Leavened bread. The Western Church and Eastern Church had different traditions and that doesn't mean that the Western Church conforms with the Eastern Traditions. That tradition must be respected by both. Pope Gregory the Great said:
"To eat unleavened bread is to perform righteous deeds without corrupting them by vain glory, it is to keep the commandments of mercy without sin, lest we divert, by perversion, what we had, so to speak, built well straight. It was this same ferment of sin that their good deeds had mixed up with whom the Lord blamed by the voice of the prophet, saying to them, "Go to Bethel and act like ungodly ones."
- St. Gregory the Great, Homily 22-
Hey Bojan. Regarding the apparent changing in dogma over the years, what if the Church was being led by the Holy Spirit (revelation is ongoing, right?) and therefore dogma can be developed like that. Just so long as it doesn't violate our original and key beliefs as Christians?
Well, I dunno, I sort of doubt that a completely new dogma can be developed without violating original and key beliefs.
I am Catholic but I still love you. 😄😄😄 ,so when can we see your face?
If you don’t know, he shows his face in some videos. Keep searching his channels.
1:36: Admittedly, Orthodoxy itself was founded one millennium after the death of its founder
I'd say that for Catholicism.
thats not the stance of the Roman Catholic Church so you couldnt really say that (assuming you are catholic)
Pozdrav iz Hrvatske
Pozdrav Roko! :-)
Ustashis were the worst plague, mind-damaged killers and the catholic church in those times showed that Even the religion can make horrible things to his own brothers, myself as an orthodox, ex-catholic pray to god for forgiveness on the catholic church for the sins and the mistakes that were made
I love you Boki!
Are you an iconographer?
As a Catholic Croat, I am sorry for what we have done to you, we are brothers and we should stay united. I have a lot of family living in Argentina, most of them coming from well established Ustaše.
The clergy was many times forced by the government to forgive evem though they disagreed.
There is a story about a man that lived during the Nazi occupation of Croatia (I know Croatia was semi independent but who cares) in my town, he had a bet with his friend who could kill more serbs in one day with a "srbosjek" (don't check out what that means its horrific) and the numbers were well in the hundreds if not even thousands. Just had to get this off my chest.
Iz Hrvatske s dobrim zeljama 😁
At least you’re using facts to speak your argument instead of blindly lobbing mean things against the Church. As for all of these awful things, all I can say is that I’m sorry. We need to mend the Church, but that is indeed a great task.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't Mr. Tito seen as the "most benevolent" ruler in communist history?
I wonder why no editing of the ooh's and ah's?
Dear Bojan. Again I'd like to point out that what you call protestant, is mostly American baptists. I don't blame you for that because they call themselves protestant and they are very loud. But as I've explained somewhere else, sectarian baptists were around even before the reformation. I was born into the reformed church and because I like you very much I want to point out that we have some things in common: 1. Persecution by the Roman Catholic Church. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Bartholomew%27s_Day_massacre and 2. Persecution by the communists. This is happening currently in the country I come from. But of course I don't want to be your friend because we have common "enemies" but because we serve the same Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. :)
Protestants also persecuted Catholics.
Do you have any resources that say that Baptists were from before then? I've heard people say that we were the first denomination, so I've been trying to look into it. God bless :)
@@snlescaille Traditional Baptist historians write from the perspective that Baptists had existed since the time of Christ. However, the Southern Baptist Convention passed resolutions rejecting this view in 1859. Proponents of the Baptist successionist or perpetuity view consider the Baptist movement to have existed independently from Roman Catholicism and prior to the Protestant Reformation. - Compare McBeth, H Leon (1987), The Baptist Heritage, Nashville: Broadman Press, pp. 59-60.
The Baptists up until today hinge their wagon on the the Reformation in order to gain legitimation. As far as I can tell.
@@ABird971 Thanks! I appreciate you replying, I'll check that out. Do any modern-day Baptist churches recognize this?
@@snlescaille Oh I don't know. I don't know any Baptist people.
what should bosniaks and albanians think of orthodoxy?
In Catholicism doctrine cannot change but it can be further developed. A great example of this is the Arian controversy. Catholics recognized his teachings as a clear innovation and rejected it. However, they also developed the Church’s true doctrine so that it could better combat the heresy. This deeper understanding was necessary to protect the Church’s deposit of faith from actual deformations. These developments are examples of an ever-richer understanding of revealed truths as well as a means by which the Church defends those truths against the challenges of the age.
Are there any Catholic church in Serbia??
Yup, at least two within walking distance from where I live. Especially numerous in north, with a lot of them especailly beautiful. :-)
What about orthodox priests blessing weapons during yugoslav wars?
what about it
Why don’t you get a digital drawing tablet and expedite the process?
Will answer :-)
For anyone who cares, the Catholic religion has always been a bad egg. Emperor Constantine still worshipped the Roman gods even as he claimed to worship YHWH. This is why so many ancient pagan holidays have been 'Christianised' such as halloween, saturnalia (christmas), and Passover's replacement easter (ishtar - ashtoreth - oh crap that's the pagan godess YHWH was really angry about in the old testament) and genocidal practices the popes had toward anyone who threatened their power, like anyone who dared translate the Bible into the local languages so people could read YHWH's Word themselves and not be brainwashed by the Catholic tyrants. Then came the crusades, which did some good, such as protecting Europe from the Muslims and so forth, but also did a lot of bad, such as the abuse of civilian populations. There is so much pagan and occultic symbolism in the Catholic Church and they teach a more salvation by works doctrine as well. Most Catholics I've met have been very, very nice people, but they do not understand what they are adhereing to.
Please don’t accuse Saint Constantine of being a pagan please
It is only called Easter in English
I agree.
I am as your average american casually aware of efforts of the RC and the pope’s in past centuries to force Catholicism on East European countries up to ww2. But I am also aware of orthodox efforts in Russia and eastern bloc countries. Both religions have long record of wrongs.
Curious to know about Orthodox efforts tho.
@@BanterWithBojan Here is a Doc on the Pseudo Synod of 1946 carried out by The communist controlled church ua-cam.com/video/901UdlyyplU/v-deo.html
@@johnpalomo6671 you don't get to use the actions of a church subverted by Jewish Communists to incriminate the Orthodox Church.
Are You Polish?
He's a Serb
@@Querymonger Thank You
So, eastern cathol ic is like Latin church. Pls. Explain. Ah donnot agree with Latin church. A lot of my people are eastern orthodox or Roman ltin Catholic. Please explain.
I would unironically say mass for Tito. Man was a Chad.
Granted.
How did that priest go again?! 🤣
The last point - the persecution of Serbs by Croats and in particular that cardinal now declared a Blessed - what make you of King Alexander, and the Kingdom of Yugoslavia?
This sounds like a very messy topic that should have been examined to the highest degree before a cause of canonisation was begun. Great clashing nationalist movements, oppression of Croats by Austria, then by Serbs, then they retaliate against Serbs...
Mayhaps we should've let things cool down a little so we could look at the lives of these people more objectively. Like we did with St. Junipero Serra.
@KOCOBO JE SRBIJA ! So I understand.
Now. This history is all new to me, so I'm largely out of my depth. To me it sounds like some overzealous Croats were trying to make up for hundreds of years of being dominated. Kind of like the Spanish marching into the New World. Yet the fact that the Croats forced the locals to "mumble Latin over a wafer" seems wrong to me, less like the Spanish, but because you don't do that to Christians who only are schismatic.
@Godly Puppyman I'm ignoring you.
Moreover, the beatification of this implicated cardinal tells me one of two things. Either canonisation doesn't necessarily have anything to do with excellent personal holiness. Or the papacy can be wrong in declaring a martyr.
And if St. Mark of Ephesus is a saint in our Church, and St. Genesius is a saint at all, I'd say the first is probably true.
The second... might also be true.
I’m a lapsed Catholic
Welcome to the channel :D
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Serbians don’t become Catholic they become Croatian (this is a joke no bully)
There is one major fallacy in your viewpoint. We are all schismatics, Catholics and Orthodox. The original Church no longer exists because the original Church was not divided. Granted, union with Rome is probably the best option because the Church fathers were adamant about it but as for the original Church, it no longer exists. All of Heaven is pained by this scandal and the reunion of the Churches most likely will not happen until Parousia. However, both the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church are simultaneously in the right and in the wrong. Both are paradoxically the one true Church founded by Jesus Christ. Who could dare claim that Jesus Christ did not establish the Church at Rome? Who could dare claim that Jesus Christ did not establish the Church at Alexandria? Et cetera.
m.ua-cam.com/video/P3hprH0oc_I/v-deo.html
Leif Borg I’m not going to watch that because my Orthodox friends tell me to stay away from Dyer as he is a hyperdox radical who does not represent the views of all of Orthodoxy
Leif Borg
In AD 445 it was declared by the bishop of Rome:
“"Our Lord Jesus Christ . . . established the worship belonging to the divine [Christian] religion. . . . But the Lord desired that the sacrament of this gift should pertain to all the apostles in such a way that it might be found principally in the most blessed Peter, the highest of all the apostles. And he wanted his gifts to flow into the entire body from Peter himself, as if from the head, in such a way that anyone who had dared to separate himself from the solidarity of Peter would realize that he was himself no longer a sharer in the divine mystery"
Pope Leo I, Letters, 10:2-3
Do some research, the Church Fathers were unanimous in saying similar or greater things.
@@john1212333333333333
Look man, you saying that Rome and the Orthodox being both is schism and the Church just doesn't exist anymore is ridiculous. There was and still is one Church. Remember the great schism? Rome left. Without the cult of personality surrounding the office of the bishop of Rome, Catholicism falls completely apart.
That's not even to mention how Rome doesn't even believe in the essence/energy distinction.
I've done my research. That's why I am Orthodox.
Also do not bother flinging any quotes saying: 'oh, muh keys' or 'b-b-but muh papal (incert 18th century late dogma here)' because it's not getting at the history or doctrine of the matter.
By the way, the patriarchate of Antioch also has Saint Peter as its apostolic founder. Guess that means there must be two popes then huh? I wonder why Antioch doesn't try to seize control over the whole church if he also has the succession of Peter.
If I sound upset, its because I am. I'm somewhat tired of Catholics not even willing to consider how they might be wrong or even taking a honest look at any critiques presented to them. It's like getting some Protestant to believe in that things extra-biblical can be legitimate, like the the ecumenical councils for example.
I was Protestant myself for a long time, got invited to a catholic bible study, struggled with it. Notice I said struggled. I acknowledge what truth was there, and sought to be catholic myself for a short time. Having said that, I went back into church history and found the fullness of the truth, the Orthodox Faith.
I just say these things to prompt you into thinking more critically, hoping you'd also find the fullness of faith in Christ.
@@leifborg5065 I watched the Dyer video, I am glad someone finally figured out God.
Chalcedonians should do the same and apologize to the non-chalcedonians for the horrors they caused
The change(?); everything is based upon Scripture. SHEESH! Just what people need more division, more hatred preached. PAX BABY.
Why hatred? :-)
@@BanterWithBojan Why hatred? Think.
I think I lost you
You are the one spewing hatred friend
I do not want to mitigate the atrocities that were commited by the ustashi, nonetheless atrocities were were also committed by the chetniks.
I understand your frustration but to me it seem you have duble standards.
An entire state in collaboration with its Church committing atrocities vs paramilitary groups committing atrocities? :-) And no chetniks were canonized, if I recall correctly.
Fair enough.
Katolička crkva u Hrvata nikad nije podržavala nepravdu nad svojim stanovnicima, uključujući Srbe, Židove i hrvatske intelektualce koji su se protivili režimu. Alojzije Stepinac nije bio onakav kakvim ti se čini. Njegovom angažiranosti mnoga sprska djeca spašena su od režima. Što se tiče šutnje, nisam upoznat sa djelovanjem Srpske pravoslavne crkve, ali, koliko vidim, nije spriječila zločine nad Hrvatima. 1918.-1995., a i do dana današnjeg. Gdje su žrtve, gdje su bačeni? Što se četnika tiče - Drinske mučenice. Nemoj dozvoliti da tvoj pogled na povijest stvara negativnu sliku drugima prema Hrvatima Bog je Istina i ako je tvoje mišljenje koje širiš lažno, a to ni ne znaš, onda je jasno u kojem to smjeru ide. Proispitaj i nemoj prestati proispitivati. Možda se Bog smiluje i napokon se sazna cijela i čista istina o grijesima nad našim narodima. Volim te, brate, s tobom Bog.
I wonder if you were born a Croat, you'd still hold the same views? Are there many Croatian Orthodox, or is it just ethnic tribalism that informs the truth of one's religion?
I wasn't born a Croat, so don't know what to tell you. I don't deal with hypothetical Bojans. There are some Croat Orthodox but not many - there are more Catholic Serbs (still a minority in Serbia).
@@BanterWithBojan I never would have imagined Catholic Serbs, Serbs seem pretty solidly Orthodox compared to Catholics in general- would there be some major reason why there'd be Catholic Serbs, or is it the run-of-the-mill personal conversions?
@@ioannispolemarkhos7364 I would say that, in general, people on Balkans very rarely change their religion (regardless of who they are) as religion forms a fundamental part of our national identity as well. However, if there's one specific cause, it would be marriage to a person of different religion.
I know our churches will reunite one day, I just pray it happens within our lifetimes. We are all Brothers and Sisters, the family is stronger together!
👍🏻
but the Catholic Church did not commit the atrocities, it was individual evil people who identified as Catholic, including clergy...no actual Catholic would do such obscene evil, even if they were baptised etc as Catholic. can you discuss the atrocities commited by 'Orthodox' Serbians in Bosnia when Jugoslavia broke up?
Doesn't Maunt Athos have a portrait of Hitler?
First time I hear of it
Hitler had a fascination with Mount Athos during WWII, so maybe he had an icon of him commissioned or something. If the icon is still there, the monks probably don't care or keep it as a historical memento. Then again, I've never heard of this.
BOJAN WTF ORTODOX HAVE CATHOLIC SAINTS TOO AND NOT THE ORIGINAL ONES, LIKE THAT BECAME SAINTS AFTER THE DIVIDE.
ALSO THE ORTODOX HAVE DONE FAR WORSE THINGS TO HEBREWS, ATLEAST WE SAVED 600 000 OF THEM WHILE IN SOME PLACES BEING PERSUCATED ALONG THEM.
11:25
You're welcome.
Your doctrinal objections seem very... well Protestant.
I'd say 'common sense' :-P