Last time I changed a thermostat I put the new one in a pot of water with a thermometer to see if it opens up at the right temperature. These days new doesn't mean good...
it would have been good to put that junk thermostat in a saucepan of boiling water and send the footage to the company and ask what the hell are they up to selling this crap that is critical to engine
I don't know anything about Chevrolet's new weird design thermostat but had an escort with a separate housing with one ball that floats and another that sinks when not running. Only thing I can figure for this added stupid complexity is to hold heat in so stay closer to operating temperature longer for better emissions. On that thermostat running the truck low on oil overheated the check balls in the thermostat causing a blockage. Might be be more to it than "Aftermarket parts bad". Been working on cars for 50 years and could write a book on crazy things I've seen.
I've ALWAYS tested a thermostat before putting it in. 15 minutes, chargeable, for peace of mind. In earlier (around 1990s) Mercruiser inboard and stern drive manuals they went to great pains to state how to check EVERY thermostat before replacing, including opening it in hot water, placing thin fishing line in its mouth so it would drop from being suspended at the crack of opening, stirring the water gently as temperature rose, noting crack temp, at what temp it was fully open (measureing that) and then allowing it to cool and noting temp at which it closed. That's what Mercruiser thought of even its own brand thermostat. Years ago, Waxstat brand thermostats used to say on the box; "No need to check before use, we have checked it". I always still checked them and found always they were right, all good.
This is what the morons that voted for Slick Willie did to us. I voted for Ross Perot twice. He saw this coming, tried to warn us, the dumb ass US citizens put a draft dodging, Chinese lover in the WH. Eisenhower tried to warn the people about the Military Industrial Complex, too. Did the people listen? Nope. That gave us Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. When you spend $ 940,000,000.00 a year on military hardware, you have find a place to use it. I know, way off topic, but I'm 78 today, a disabled Nam Vet, and somehow cheap ass, not made to purpose parts are the result of really crappy leadership. And somehow, it's all related. 😮
Average intelligence of vehicle owners today. Short trips all winter long, oil change only after the DIC starts yelling at you to change it because you ran it down to 0% oil life, tires never rotated, brake pads worn down to the metal back plate, etc.
Before I started following you and a few other auto diag experts, I used to be a master at firing the parts cannon 😂 I dealt with this same issue on an 01 Ford truck with the 4.6. I replaced the thermostat like 3 times, but it would always overheat. Then I put in a larger dual core radiator, changed the heater core, flushed the coolant passages, changed the water pump, changed the fan clutch, and STILL had overheating issues. So then I started going with lower temp thermostats. The heating issue finally went away once I put in a crappy aftermarket 160° thermostat, but now it ran so cold it would kick itself back into open loop and throw a code 😂😂 FINALLY a motorcraft brand thermostat at the factory 190° setting fixed the overheating issue for good. It was just a string of bad thermostats from the cheap parts store brands. I threw so much unnecessary money at that issue all because of those junk aftermarket thermostats. You'll be happy to know that your channel has taught me a lot over the years on how to not fire the parts cannon, and to go with OEM parts whenever feasible. Thanks for the great videos, Ivan!
It takes some fortitude to even tell everyone that and most of us have a story like your own or some similar versions along the way way and we can appreciate good work and mechanics earn every penny they make and then some imo
Can you imagine if you test drove it with only 3 quarts of (oil) sludge AND it overheating, resulting in possibly destroying bearings and/or seizing up the motor? That's scary. Really glad you checked 1st. 👍 🇺🇲
I have also seen that low on oil i have also seen an engine that had zero oil in the motor and the person who drove it to the shop was driving around with no oil in the engine plus no gas WTF LOL
I'm bringing my truck to the mechanic; I better clear all the codes, and reset the oil life indicator so he'll think I changed my oil recently. I don't want him to think that I'm trying to pull something
reminds me of the seinfeld episode where he doesn't want to take his car to the mechanic because he get grilled with a bunch of questions by the mechanic when he does...."tell me the truth jerry,, you been going to one of those quickie oil change places? you see this gasket,, i have no faith in this gasket!!"
Just because the body looks clean doesn't mean it's good. You already saw the truck came in with only 3 quarts of oil with a capacity of 8 quarts. I've seen this so many times. I've heard a lady tell me, my car is making this rattling noise? I said, have you checked the oil? She says No. I don't know how?? This is stupid to buy a 40k automotive and not know anything about it. Anyway, I stood beside her and told her what to do. Nothing on the dipstick? She goes in the store, buys 3 quarts. Added the oil... nothing still... Note,,,the car oil capacity is 5 qts. I tell her buy 2 more. She add 2 more. Finally she gets a normal level. I tell her. You may have damaged the engine. It's okay, I'm going to trade it in. I don't care.
@@2nickles647 The truck looked in good condition. That is why I said it should have had its oil changed and at a proper level as well as 5K or less changes.
Yes, but ... Look at the average road vehicle. The oil drops into a sump that typically doesn't have fins on it. On my F150, the sump sits above an aerodynamic cover that nets me another whopping 0.01 mpg. While the oil is carrying heat away, it's not even in the same class as the engine coolant that sits out in the breeze. If you want to see an engine where the oil is carrying significant amounts of heat away, take a look at air-cooled aircraft engines. Air flows over the cylinder baffles and then through an oil cooler.
Years ago I did an inframe overhaul of a Detroit Diesel 8V71N marine diesel. Also cleaned the heat exchanger, replaced the hoses, rebuilt the raw water pump etc, along with two new OEM thermostats (1 per head). Sea trialed the boat and the temp would start creeping above 205 at full load. Had me scratching my head. I checked raw water pressures, vacumn etc. Three days of trying to figure out why. If I had an infrared noncontact thermometer ($$$ back then) or a thermal imaging camera I would have found it right away. Turns out one of the brand new thermostats never worked right out of the box. I found it by boiling them.
Bad aftermarket parts isn’t something new, forty years ago I replaced a water pump on a Chevy van three times!!! Bad pumps from auto store that was eventually bought out by one of the current franchises. Went to dealer and bought OEM at twice the price but it worked👍
I had a Mazda B2000 pickup and in 1994 I drove it home from college graduation, it was overheating. I had the heater on full blast in FLorida in Summer! Brutal drive.
That’s for sure. I recently put an aftermarket pcv/ crankcase vent valve (80$)on a guys Passat , at his request, and it worked great, for one day. Put the 240$ OEM on and solved the issue. I knew better, but luckily it is only about a 15 minute job .
@@DinDooIt Yeah, GM is America's truck! Complete with OE parts made in China. I preventatively replaced the vacuum pump in my sister's turbo Equinox recently and went OE for the part. Genuine GM, made in China. The aftermarket Standard Motor Products pump seems to be made in America... sad times, indeed.
@@brassmule I just replaced a wheel bearing in my ram 2500, oe bearing straight from China, so I went with a Korean bearing instead, idk if it's better but worth the try I guess, crazy times!
Back when I was in high school (as i sit in my rocking chair) which was 50 yrs ago some of our schools in our city had classes such as metal work, welding and automotive repair. Heck the auto classes delved into rebuiding engines. I doubt that they still teach this. As a former parts person in a former life it drives me nuts when I go to a parts store (dealerships not so much) and if it isn't on the computer it's either not available or they are going down a wrong rabbit hole. Look up the parts confirm that it's the right one and then go and pick it up, if you can.
@@phprofYT Where I live, auto shop classes are places to put trouble makers for at least 1-hour per day. Nothing is learned and the students who would like to learn about cars will not take the classes because the trouble makers are there.
@@mrdgschmidt Your are 100% correct on what you said when i was in high school i was in the Navy ROTC and it had a real shooting team with real guns and a drill team that use M1 garands to practice with you also learned basic skills in the auto shop . woodworking . electrical .drafting metal and welding fabrication you also learned to use a real metal lathe and a real Bridgeport milling machine Today very few schools have industrial arts classes anymore or just basic skills on how to make it in life
I did an automotive tech course as a part of my higher school certificate as a part of a joint school & Tech initiative here in Australia 30 years ago only because I wanted to do something which has relevance to the real world rather than do what they thought that I would do, sit in class at school & vegetate because a lot of them were idiots there & it's like they just thought that I was one of them !
@@knowone6214 Really? I just bought OEM rear brake rotors and pads for my vehicle that are clearly marked, "Made in China." Now, I know that isn't really a critical part and I was told that just because something is made in China doesn't mean it is low quality. I agree with you.
Hi Ivan, years ago I was taught a lesson on overheating engines, I thought I knew a lot about the subject. It turns out that that the newer engines need to be filled with a vacuum applied to them to keep the air pockets from forming. I told my customer to get rid of the car because it probably has a blown head gasket. the real problem was when he changed the antifreeze, he didn't use the "GM" method. Rich
Have to be careful when using those vacuum fillers. Have ruined several water pumps. While doing a routine flush, heard a pop noise. Then when running coolant was leaking out of the weep hole. Pump was fine before the flush. The engine in the vid here, can fill those with no vac needed, now the old LT1, with reversed coolant flow, it was necessary to vac fill those.
For grins and giggles, this is called air lock. Grady over on Practical Engineering did a video on it a few years ago with some clear pipe to show what's going on inside.
I vacuum fill all the vehicles I service these days. It's quicker. I can fill it, cap it, run it, and test drive it and then give it back to the customer the same day. Before I would let it cool down overnight to make sure it stayed at level. I've never had any water pump issue. I'd be curious to know what kind of vehicle that happened on.
5 quarts of oil low is inexcusable !!! But...the truck is waxed , vacuumed and LOOKS COOL ! Good practice to always check oil on any customer vehicle . Some extra 2 cents : some vehicles can be hard to get air out of the cooling system and the front must be raised . The radiator tubes seem to clog in the middle which can be hard to access with a thermal camera , laser thermometer or your hand ( watch the fan coming on - ouch ! ) Great diagnosis and fix .
@@2nickles647 Maybe it's done under pressure . I have a friends 2000 Honda 4 cylinder with an air pocket in the cooling system . The bleeder is frozen and will have to be torched . The air is not coming out .
@@2nickles647 There is a tool that uses shop air and vacuum to fill the system . I doubt most shops have it . They probably use the cooling funnel fill kit . See video from Ratchets and Wrenches . There may be a few vehicles where the highest point in the cooling system is in the heater core and air is trapped . I think that tool would eliminate come backs .
Good Morning Ivan have a good weekend ! and Mechanical met the technical ..Over heating we just used to take the thermostat out and poke a hole in it or take it it out. Good enough to get you home.
He is one hundred percent right. The thermostat is a critical item. If it fails, you could quickly seize the engine. Going Cheap can cost you big time.
I agree with you! We see this all the time at the shop i work at. New parts especially the value minded ones are not always good just because they are new.
Got my driver's license and a 10 year old Chevy C10 in 1980, my father told me to check the oil at least every week and change it every 3k miles, check the brake fluid and belts, I still check the oil every week, my Toyota never needs any but it's still a good habit to at least look under the hood
Vehicles today have multiple computers and Networks where all sensors are connected, Without the ability to read all sensors and codes your hands will Be Emply much less your thought process. Best of Luck....... Thanks to all those who Video on u-tube true Pioneers in the Present Moment......
@@Gruin True for most electrical issues , but in this situation the problem was elementary for someone like Ivan. He did some basic checks with the scan tool, but He knew what the problem was when He put His hand on the top radiator hose. Proper scan tools are certainly a necessity but not always the 100% cure all. That’s when experience comes in to the picture.
I thought at first you had a scenario like one I saw on an F-150, but to my surprise I’ve yet to see one like it roll into your shop. Truck would intermittently limp home and shop had changed the engine swearing an overheating issue; temp gauge was pegged. Same issue remained. The customer had installed an aftermarket thermostat with inadequate flow across the coolant temp sensor. The thermostat was swapped to the replacement engine. The truck was never overheating.
Simple and easy fix with the proper part, Ivan! I guess, having a scanner made customer ignore the oil dipstick. Always check the basics directly - even scantools can lie to you.
still watching the video so this may be a premature observation but I always consider air in the system when problems like this happen. regardless of if the t-tstat is working correctly or not.
Just subscribed after seeing the video. I have a 2015 that would not complete a drive cycle. The ECT would drop out of closed loop once driving. 90K on the clock and original thermostat. Now I get a solid 210 ECT. I have the V6 WT so overheating is never an issue, even in Texas heat. Thanks for the video! jim
Most people don't check their oil between oii changes and with Chevy's drinking oil either by leaking it or burning it, it doesn't surprise me this engine was almost empty of oil. Good on you for liability to check this before touching it. We had a customer's engine seize on us because it had 0 oil in it. Customer tried to claim we seized the engine. 16,000 miles past due for oil change according to the sticker on the windshield. We then started checking for oil on all cars before attempting to move them into the garage from the parking lot for this very reason.
I have a 2011 volvo that doesn't burn oil but uses it somewhere that is not a steady drain.It uses oil intermittently,goes three weeks useing nothing,then down 2 qts the next week.I Drove 1500 hundret miles from Massachusetts to Colorado and used none ? It has to be the pvc system?
@@peterwill3699 Could be the PCV intermittently sticking, could be dirt in the turbo seals could also be the piston rings sticking here/there or all the rings lining up at the gapped area from time to time. So many things could be happening.
In over forty years of working as a tech, I’ve had more “bad” thermostats out of the box than good ones. And that goes for both, OEM and Aftermarket. The record of bad ones in a row was in the 80’s when working at a Ford technician, I finally got a good, working thermostat on the fifth try. Always, always test your new thermostat before installing, OEM or Aftermarket.
Thanks for another weekend case study Ivan. Hope you’re able to get out on your bike and enjoy summer a bit between all the great lessons you’ve been giving us….even the small lessons like check your customer’s oil before anything. We appreciate you my man!
I've always said, new = never ever worked (yet) While an OE new part isn't a guarantee it's much more likely to be ok and correct for the application. In diag it says "replace with known good component" not new. But, in many situations it's not reasonable or cost effective to use new, in this case, absolutely!
Not related to this vid but I went to go use my 12v plug in my wrangler today. Nothing. Got all excited to play Ivan. Checked fuse without removing it. It was good. Check for power at the fuse after starting the vehicle. Nothing. Really got excited to dig in. Then I realized remote start doesn't count as "running". Started the wrangler using the ignition and everything worked lol. Womp womp. Maybe one day. Thanks for all the learnings and content Ivan.
Another thing to keep in mind (not applying to this vehicle), is that if you have a car with only electric cooling fans, and a coolant switch that only kicks on above boiling, that you can have a radiator cap that doesn’t hold full pressure cause overheating under certain conditions. This because the pressure will not be applied and the coolant will start to boil before the coolant can reach the temp needed to turn on the fan. I had one where this occurred and replaced the cap, and then of course the water pump started leaking because it was worn too and couldn’t hold the 16 psi of the new cap☹️.
I was almost wishing for the overheat to be oil related. As you know IVAN, the engine needs to be running in normal parameters before we can blame the CAT Eff. Thanks for the easy FIX.
Never assume your new parts are good just because they're new! I've seen that on more than one occasion "I just replaced XXX, it can't be that". All signs point to that, replace it again anyway.
I have not trusted aftermarket thermostats for years and have only used OEM ones except when they are no longer available such as for my 1970 Monte Carlo. Nice diagnosis.
hopefully your customer accepted the oil change issue . a life saver for his engine . I had a similar overheating with a Honda CRV 2 litre petrol the water pump was totally devoid of impeller blades .I have seen a mecedes Sprinter ambulance with a similar corroded off water pump blades .
Ive given the upper hose a few quick squeezes and that often has gotten the thermostat to open when its sticking. You can also put the old stat in a non food pot of water and turn turn the heat on and see if it opens before the water boils.
Good call on the thermostat.Should clean fins radiator too.As you accelerate temperature meter should go down.If not clean radiator fins both sides.With dish soap.Regular hose.No pressure washer.Fines are delicate air flow is vital for proper cooling.Figured it out after water pump and thermostat replacement .Nedal would stay at 210 degrees even after acceleration.
Dear Ivan I install many Motorad thermostat including Factory OEM thermostat and Gates thermostat but no matter which brand you buy you can always end up with one bad one that not working. But unfortunately, many people do not realize this, and I assume that just because it is a brand new thermostat it should work, Instead of just replacing that bad new one with another new one, and I actually prefer Gates products over all them.
Gates is hit and miss, too, in my experience. It's OK for some vehicles but not for others. OE for the win. I have stayed away from Motorad for years, especially for Asian vehicles. It's one of the cheapo styles of thermostats on Japanese vehicles and they fail in short order. Been there done that.
@@SHSPVR Manufacturers may have different lines for their OE than for their retail brands. Since most everyone knows you have to replace a BMW or VW cooling system after 5-7 years due to disintegrating plastic and other failures, I'm not surprised Motorad makes it for them. Go over to RockAuto and look at photos of thermostats for any Honda or Toyota and compare an Aisin, TAMA, or Beck/Arnley thermostat to a Motorad and you'll see the difference. It's just cheap junk.
In 2002 I had a 1992 Accord that started overheating a little bit. I went to NAPA and bought one of their thermostats and installed it. Took it for a test drive and the car overheated very quickly. Got a ride to a Honda dealer an hour away and got a genuine thermostat. While I had the original, the NAPA and the new genuine thermostat all side by side, I put them in boiling water. The new Honda thermostat opened fully very quickly. The old Honda thermostat opened slowly about half way. And the NAPA thermostat did nothing and remained closed. Went in to NAPA and the store manager told me that they would refund my money but that their thermostat was fine and you can't put them in boiling water to test them. He claimed that to test their thermostats they have to also be in a pressurized system to simulate being in a cars cooling system and then they will open. I told him about the other thermostats opening in boiling water and he just repeated that that's not how NAPA thermostats should be tested. I haven't bought anything at NAPA since then.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics They sell parts, they are not mechanics. They're experts when it comes to the mechanics of a transaction and that's the extent of their expertise. The same is true for any auto parts place. Why people go to the various parts places and think they will fix their car is one of the mysteries of the universe, but marketing and advertising directed toward idiots is what I blame. People who take responsibility for their own property(like a car or truck) don't fall for that shiite and don't have problems with basic maintenence.
@@alariccatlett I've noticed that even Motorcraft OEM thermostats in my 96 Mystique crap out every 5 years or so. They start opening a bit too early and the cabin heat in the winter isn't as good. Not a huge deal but still annoying 😅
6 months ago I worked on a buick Encore with coolant leaks after an expensive parts cannon fail. I replaced one elbow and a short peice of hose and it fixed the problem. Yesterday I used the hose for something unrelated and 5 acorns fell out. I am now confused as to how they got in a sealed system, but I remember vacuuming lots of acorns out of the engine bay.
@@peterwill3699 Great theory! However there is not an acorn tree within 5 miles of my bougie neighborhood. They were also burnt, so they definitely had been hot. It's possible a mouse is trolling me, got the acorns out of my shop vac and put them in the hose. That's my working theory.
Most engines used to be 5 quarts with oil filter change. Not so much any more. Maybe a DIYer assumed this truck was the same and it got driven a ways after. Bottom line, never assume oil capacity. Look it up first. Also it's good that you record all your diagnostic codes and findings. It helps prevent customer tomfoolery down the road ("it was fine when I brought it to you").
Ivan is so right, OEM only. I just failed with Amazon and eBay MAF sensor for my old mazda MPV. scanner data showed the MAF reading 9 g/s of air. ordered Rcokauto part.
Great question!! I was thinking the same. Someone mentioned the low oil level may have been the root cause of the overheating. Not sure how much this engine relies on oil for cooling. I know some have oil sprayers that spray the bottoms of the pistons. However, if there wasn't enough oil for spraying, there certainly wasn't enough for lubrication.
I removed 3 or 4 red cloth shop rags from an upper radiator hose. That was very difficult to find as they were stuck right at the turn to the radiator. '77 T-bird. With cap off I could see only a little water running in.
On that particular thermostat, the way it is built into the housing it can only go one way. Dad always told me the spring needs to go towards the engine. I don't know about GM OEM parts, however, Brian from Ford Tech Makuloco did a video some time ago about counterfeit Motorcraft parts. He stated, as did Eric O. with South Main Auto, that it is best to buy from a brick-and-mortar store. If I had placed a bet, I would have bet the owner didn't notice the correct temperature since he didn't know how much oil was in the engine. I like how you check oil, Ivan. You pull the dipstick and read the level without bringing the tip up allowing the oil to run down the stick. Hey, these days 3 out of 8 quarts isn't bad. In the words of Eric O. with SMA, "Just because it is new doesn't mean it is good." Just goes to show a person still needs to check the basics. GREAT VIDEO!
To change the oil without a filter change with a need to measure the amount of oil in the pan I use a Holt Industries Deluxe Manual Fluid Extractor and Dispenser (it has a fluid scale in Liters) and use the dip-stick tube to insert a line to suck out the old oil and pump in new oil. Dump the old oil (transfer to your oil holding tank) after recording volume and fill the Holt with the needed oil minus the amount in the filter (estimate) and pump back into the pan. Measure the level with the dip stick. If okay, start the engine let run for about 2 minutes, turn off engine and wait about 5 minutes for all the oil to drain back to the pan. Measure the oil level once again and add additional oil if necessary. With the Holt for oil change only, there is no pan mess, no need to remove the pan bolt, and no oil transfer mess If the oil level is okay before the change you can just record the amount pumped out with a piece of tape on the Holt and then pump in the same amount. In testing avoid the coolant temp from rising above 235 Degrees F if possible. For this type of thermostat replacement I give the customer the option of replacing the factory hose clamps with Aba 316 stainless steel Marine rated hose clamps. The Aba Marine hose clamps are very smooth and gouge free so you can easily tighten without damaging the hose or cracking the plastic and I have yet to see one corrode due to road salt spray. I have a full line of Aba 316 SS clamps so I can pick the exact size that fits best. But we have to ask ourselves how is it that there is only 3 quarts in the pan? I thought this year truck had the oil level low alter message. Is the truck leaking oil? Is the truck burning oil?
I replaced the thermostat in my wife's Wrangler and had a similar problem. Tried to get one from the dealer, but they were on backorder so I had to go aftermarket. The first one I put in was opening too early. It caused the jeep to kick a code for slow warm up time. Second attempt worked better. Unfortunately I cant remember where I got them from now...
Wohldnt excessive low oil level contribute to overheating as well? Oil does help keep an engine cool, does it not? I am astounded at the level of crap parts being made.
Yes and no. Yes in the sense that oil is carrying heat away. No in the sense that, unless there is an oil cooler, the engine probably wasn't designed to need the oil to remove heat. This isn't true on all engines. On air-cooled aircraft engines, they use an oil cooler. There, the oil is a big contributor to keeping the engine cool.
The Gen 3 onwards V8 engines do use a little bit of oil so just keep your eye on the oil level on the dipstick. It's usually about once every 5000 kilometres or 3000 miles that I have to add 1 litre or 1 quart of oil because it falls down to the add mark in my 5.7 litre Chevrolet LS1 V8 engine. Once it falls down to the add mark then it requires about 1 litre or 1 quart of oil to bring the oil level back up to the full mark, the engine uses 2 litres or 2 quarts of oil within the 10,000 kilometre or 6000 miles service interval, since mine is bolted into a Holden Commodore, Holden says that anything in excess of 2.5 litres of oil consumption within the service interval is excessive & the engine needs a rebuild, etc. I had an issue 19 months ago when the engine boiled over,it was because I didn't bleed the cooling system properly meaning that it had an air pocket trapped inside of the engine, when I replenished the coolant I made sure that the thermo fans turned on before switching the engine off so as to make that the cooling system was properly bled. I have a 91°C or a 196°F thermostat fitted which is from the U.S. instead of the standard 86°C or 187°F thermostat so the one that I have fitted opens a tad later although it doesn't make any difference to the running temperature of the engine !
I wouldn't even trust OEM parts. Ordered a GM Genuine for our 04 Express 6.0L when I changed the waterpump. Did a long trip and noticed it seemed to run 5-10 degrees warmer than the Murray Pro prior. Now that's hot it's wanting to run 220-240, normally that's mountain climbing temps. Interesting enough it actually runs hotter when you have the heat on. Granted could be few other things since I haven't opened it up yet. And maybe rockauto's catalog was wrong since there was alot of spring pressure versus the old thermostat even though looked exactly the same as the previous.
I wonder how long the "new" water pump will last if the customer used the same parts store. Good process Ivan to always check oil before starting a diag.
I'm not saying Ivan is wrong about aftermarket parts. However, mechanics only see the stuff that goes wrong. They never see the stuff that goes right. I mean, who brings their vehicle in the shop after a repair to say nothing is wrong? This is a form of survivorship bias, which has an interesting history. So before listening to a doctor, mechanic, etc about their experience and recommendations, just keep this in mind.
Motorad has been junk for a long time. Many of the companies, like Motorad, that used to be good have had to cut costs and the expense of a reliable product.
_"However, mechanics only see the stuff that goes wrong."_ Correct, and when mechanics regularly see aftermarket parts cause problems then it's a sure sign that there is a quality problem with them.
I've been saying it for years. The stealership, local shop, or DIY parts cannon fixes it 75% of the time. But it makes the other 25% extremely tedious. That being said, I still use OEM on my cars 90% of the time.
That's normal behavior with people who want to blame the mechanic. If there is nothing wrong. Why did you bring it in? I've learned NEVER trust anyone. Once they start talking, it's an endless rant. I have my ford, it's got a Cold air intake system, Randy's ring/pinion blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. So what's wrong? What year and make? O it's out there...there the big red one. 😅😅😅😅
@@ferrumignis Thank you for proving my point. For all we know 99.99% of the aftermarket stuff works just fine. But if all you ever see is the 0.01% that doesn't work, you'd come to the conclusion that it's all junk. Look up the history of survivorship bias, which is a form of selection bias. The big example in Wikipedia was in WWII in deciding how to armor aircraft. They wanted to put armor where they saw bullet holes, which was on the wings. But that was a mistake. The aircraft that were getting shot down had damage in the cockpit, engine, and tail. But they never saw those aircraft because they never make it back home. So they were drawing the wrong conclusions because they didn't have the right data. Like I said, not arguing with Ivan. It's probably junk. I'm just pointing out a common error that people make and to be mindful of it
My 2019f150 cooling fans were cycling for seemingly for no reason. Even at 0° outdoor temperature. I changed out the thermostat after reading some stick with a new style motor from the dealer, including the O-ring that comes with it. Work like a champ the thermostat. The OEM thermostat cost $10 more than the other rock auto thermostats. It’s just not worth messing around.
I have not had good luck with Stant either. After 42,000 miles only on my 02 Civic, it became stuck closed. Caught the problem before any damage was done.
Next time you change the transmission filter if the pan hold 3 qt tell the customer to change the oil in the trans pan every time they change the motor oil this way the transmission gets clean fresh oil and it stay cleaner the transmission may last longer you do good work my friend cool how you fix cars the dealers can't do
First thought... Understand coolant circuit flow, sometimes those GM's have duel thermostats. Check/confirm coolant flow. Use an IR gun to check temps/differentials at various locations. Radiator plugged. Use refractometer to check freeze point of coolant. Yes I have one of those. [50/50 is -34 deg f, 60/40 is -10] Fans working, air flow though radiator restricted. On many different scenarios I have had to go back and tell myself one fundamental truth... It was made to work. Now without watching the video and seeing the comments I see it was a defective new thermostat. I prefer Stant cooling products. Why was the WP and Thermostat changed in the first place? That would really suck if you had a stuck shut thermo and the new one was also stuck shut.
Seems like this truck is also having an oil consumption issue that is damaging the catalytic converters. 5 quarts low and cat efficiency codes. No bueno
I am having too many issues with OEM parts too. Some OEM parts are different suppliers because the original stock of some pieces sold out and the re-order has to go to one of the aftermarket makers as the OEM company is gone due to corp buyout
When teaching young Padawns at the stealership, I would tell them to fill out the sticker and reset the oil life in the computer as you pull the vehicle into the bay and before you pop the hood. Next, fill the washer fluid. Many customers will check both of these items in the parking lot and claim if either is missing, you didn’t change the oil.
You mean the dealership can just replace the sticker and not do the oil change? That would be funny. How many times did you have to show the customer the dipstick and the difference between clean oil and oil that needs replacing?
Yep, those closed systems works best at 220 due to the pressure in the system. Coolant will not boil. As soon as you open the hot system the coolant boils instantly due to the released pressure.
I just went through replacing my old Watts water pressure regulator on my house. It working fine , just replacing it due to age. Bought two brand new units and both were bad. Went ahead and put the old unit back on. So, apparently all companies are onboard to sell garbage.
Last time I changed a thermostat I put the new one in a pot of water with a thermometer to see if it opens up at the right temperature. These days new doesn't mean good...
The way auto parts are these days, this is a really good idea I would have thought to he overkill 5 years ago.
Do not do this with VW thermostats ! they have a plastic frame and will blow up !! Don't ask !
@@CrimeVid lol
I buy my thermostats now from the dealer for this reason. The aftermarket ones just don't work well or last it seems.
@@CrimeVid plastic is a huge problem in everything it touches
it would have been good to put that junk thermostat in a saucepan of boiling water and send the footage to the company and ask what the hell are they up to selling this crap that is critical to engine
Maybe they will send you a box of complementary amazon fuses.
i used to test new thermostats that way.
I don't know anything about Chevrolet's new weird design thermostat but had an escort with a separate housing with one ball that floats and another that sinks when not running. Only thing I can figure for this added stupid complexity is to hold heat in so stay closer to operating temperature longer for better emissions.
On that thermostat running the truck low on oil overheated the check balls in the thermostat causing a blockage.
Might be be more to it than "Aftermarket parts bad". Been working on cars for 50 years and could write a book on crazy things I've seen.
I've ALWAYS tested a thermostat before putting it in. 15 minutes, chargeable, for peace of mind. In earlier (around 1990s) Mercruiser inboard and stern drive manuals they went to great pains to state how to check EVERY thermostat before replacing, including opening it in hot water, placing thin fishing line in its mouth so it would drop from being suspended at the crack of opening, stirring the water gently as temperature rose, noting crack temp, at what temp it was fully open (measureing that) and then allowing it to cool and noting temp at which it closed. That's what Mercruiser thought of even its own brand thermostat. Years ago, Waxstat brand thermostats used to say on the box; "No need to check before use, we have checked it". I always still checked them and found always they were right, all good.
This is what the morons that voted for Slick Willie did to us. I voted for Ross Perot twice. He saw this coming, tried to warn us, the dumb ass US citizens put a draft dodging, Chinese lover in the WH. Eisenhower tried to warn the people about the Military Industrial Complex, too. Did the people listen? Nope. That gave us Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. When you spend $ 940,000,000.00 a year on military hardware, you have find a place to use it. I know, way off topic, but I'm 78 today, a disabled Nam Vet, and somehow cheap ass, not made to purpose parts are the result of really crappy leadership. And somehow, it's all related. 😮
The 5 quart low on oil condition is a strong indicator of the owner's concern for that truck.
Average intelligence of vehicle owners today. Short trips all winter long, oil change only after the DIC starts yelling at you to change it because you ran it down to 0% oil life, tires never rotated, brake pads worn down to the metal back plate, etc.
@@karlschauff7989then they blame the vehicle and claim they will never buy that make of car again because they're a POS.
Even joe biden isn’t 5 quarts low. Close though.
Looks GREAT externally but yes any maintenance is severely lacking
@@gregnemcek3998 you forgot the words " lack of " right before concern. Do you know how much noise that engine had to be making?
Before I started following you and a few other auto diag experts, I used to be a master at firing the parts cannon 😂 I dealt with this same issue on an 01 Ford truck with the 4.6. I replaced the thermostat like 3 times, but it would always overheat. Then I put in a larger dual core radiator, changed the heater core, flushed the coolant passages, changed the water pump, changed the fan clutch, and STILL had overheating issues. So then I started going with lower temp thermostats. The heating issue finally went away once I put in a crappy aftermarket 160° thermostat, but now it ran so cold it would kick itself back into open loop and throw a code 😂😂 FINALLY a motorcraft brand thermostat at the factory 190° setting fixed the overheating issue for good. It was just a string of bad thermostats from the cheap parts store brands. I threw so much unnecessary money at that issue all because of those junk aftermarket thermostats. You'll be happy to know that your channel has taught me a lot over the years on how to not fire the parts cannon, and to go with OEM parts whenever feasible. Thanks for the great videos, Ivan!
It takes some fortitude to even tell everyone that and most of us have a story like your own or some similar versions along the way way and we can appreciate good work and mechanics earn every penny they make and then some imo
Can you imagine if you test drove it with only 3 quarts of (oil) sludge AND it overheating, resulting in possibly destroying bearings and/or seizing up the motor?
That's scary.
Really glad you checked 1st. 👍 🇺🇲
I rented a diesel powered moving truck from U haul in 2001. I checked the oil before leaving. Good thing I did as it was 6 quarts low on oil. 😦
I have also seen that low on oil i have also seen an engine that had zero oil in the motor and the person who drove it to the shop was driving around with no oil in the engine plus no gas WTF LOL
He already drove it in with only 3 quarts of oil already...
I'd like to hear the idiot owners explanation about the lack of oil....LOL
His head gasket sent you a thank you.
I'm bringing my truck to the mechanic; I better clear all the codes, and reset the oil life indicator so he'll think I changed my oil recently. I don't want him to think that I'm trying to pull something
It's a wonder he noticed overheating.
Oil changes are a myth, one quart of sludge is all these babies need.
Exactly! It'll save me money if i hide it from him 🙄
And, ask for the money back on the oil change since that did not fix the overheating.
reminds me of the seinfeld episode where he doesn't want to take his car to the mechanic because he get grilled with a bunch of questions by the mechanic when he does...."tell me the truth jerry,, you been going to one of those quickie oil change places? you see this gasket,, i have no faith in this gasket!!"
The truck looked very clean and in good condition. Well worth proper parts, repairs, and oil changes.
Well worth buying OEM parts too, not aftermarket junk.
@@user-pq9ji7kt4l I paid more for a Motor craft fuel pump instead of a much cheaper China knockoff fuel pump. I did not want to walk home.
Just because the body looks clean doesn't mean it's good.
You already saw the truck came in with only 3 quarts of oil with a capacity of 8 quarts.
I've seen this so many times.
I've heard a lady tell me, my car is making this rattling noise?
I said, have you checked the oil?
She says No. I don't know how??
This is stupid to buy a 40k automotive and not know anything about it.
Anyway, I stood beside her and told her what to do.
Nothing on the dipstick?
She goes in the store, buys 3 quarts. Added the oil... nothing still...
Note,,,the car oil capacity is 5 qts.
I tell her buy 2 more. She add 2 more. Finally she gets a normal level.
I tell her. You may have damaged the engine.
It's okay, I'm going to trade it in. I don't care.
Except for the not-checking-oil-level part.
@@2nickles647 The truck looked in good condition. That is why I said it should have had its oil changed and at a proper level as well as 5K or less changes.
Engine oil is also a coolant. It prevents friction and carries away the heat
Vicious circle. Too little oil makes the temp higher, the higher temp makes it burn off more oil.
Yes, but ... Look at the average road vehicle. The oil drops into a sump that typically doesn't have fins on it. On my F150, the sump sits above an aerodynamic cover that nets me another whopping 0.01 mpg. While the oil is carrying heat away, it's not even in the same class as the engine coolant that sits out in the breeze. If you want to see an engine where the oil is carrying significant amounts of heat away, take a look at air-cooled aircraft engines. Air flows over the cylinder baffles and then through an oil cooler.
@@major__kong 👍Jegs to the rescue!
Years ago I did an inframe overhaul of a Detroit Diesel 8V71N marine diesel. Also cleaned the heat exchanger, replaced the hoses, rebuilt the raw water pump etc, along with two new OEM thermostats (1 per head). Sea trialed the boat and the temp would start creeping above 205 at full load. Had me scratching my head. I checked raw water pressures, vacumn etc. Three days of trying to figure out why. If I had an infrared noncontact thermometer ($$$ back then) or a thermal imaging camera I would have found it right away. Turns out one of the brand new thermostats never worked right out of the box. I found it by boiling them.
NEW = NEVER EVER WORKS. Nice job my friend.
Bad aftermarket parts isn’t something new, forty years ago I replaced a water pump on a Chevy van three times!!! Bad pumps from auto store that was eventually bought out by one of the current franchises. Went to dealer and bought OEM at twice the price but it worked👍
I had a Mazda B2000 pickup and in 1994 I drove it home from college graduation, it was overheating. I had the heater on full blast in FLorida in Summer! Brutal drive.
Gotta love that dual radiator action.
I check the oil pretty much every time I get gas. It's an easy way to prevent ruining an engine.
Agreed. I do that too
I would have liked to see him check the thermostat he pulled out and test it, just to see what it does. Maybe see why it wasn't working.
The aftermarket has gotten so bad with shoddy parts, that I've gone back to OEM even for brake parts.
That’s for sure. I recently put an aftermarket pcv/ crankcase vent valve (80$)on a guys Passat , at his request, and it worked great, for one day. Put the 240$ OEM on and solved the issue. I knew better, but luckily it is only about a 15 minute job .
Going to sue China?
Even OEM is mostly made from chineseium these days, it's sickening!!
@@DinDooIt Yeah, GM is America's truck! Complete with OE parts made in China. I preventatively replaced the vacuum pump in my sister's turbo Equinox recently and went OE for the part. Genuine GM, made in China. The aftermarket Standard Motor Products pump seems to be made in America... sad times, indeed.
@@brassmule I just replaced a wheel bearing in my ram 2500, oe bearing straight from China, so I went with a Korean bearing instead, idk if it's better but worth the try I guess, crazy times!
Every high school needs a requirement of basic automobile maintenance and household operation class.
Back when I was in high school (as i sit in my rocking chair) which was 50 yrs ago some of our schools in our city had classes such as metal work, welding and automotive repair. Heck the auto classes delved into rebuiding engines. I doubt that they still teach this. As a former parts person in a former life it drives me nuts when I go to a parts store (dealerships not so much) and if it isn't on the computer it's either not available or they are going down a wrong rabbit hole. Look up the parts confirm that it's the right one and then go and pick it up, if you can.
And financial basics!!!!!
@@phprofYT Where I live, auto shop classes are places to put trouble makers for at least 1-hour per day. Nothing is learned and the students who would like to learn about cars will not take the classes because the trouble makers are there.
@@mrdgschmidt Your are 100% correct on what you said when i was in high school i was in the Navy ROTC and it had a real shooting team with real guns and a drill team that use M1 garands to practice with you also learned basic skills in the auto shop . woodworking . electrical .drafting metal and welding fabrication you also learned to use a real metal lathe and a real Bridgeport milling machine Today very few schools have industrial arts classes anymore or just basic skills on how to make it in life
I did an automotive tech course as a part of my higher school certificate as a part of a joint school & Tech initiative here in Australia 30 years ago only because I wanted to do something which has relevance to the real world rather than do what they thought that I would do, sit in class at school & vegetate because a lot of them were idiots there & it's like they just thought that I was one of them !
Maybe lawsuits have to be filed against these aftermarket parts companies. It is out of control.
You can start with Dorman😅😅
need to stop the Chinese Clone CRAP.....that would fix 90% of it
@@knowone6214 Really? I just bought OEM rear brake rotors and pads for my vehicle that are clearly marked, "Made in China." Now, I know that isn't really a critical part and I was told that just because something is made in China doesn't mean it is low quality. I agree with you.
Why didn’t the shop that replaced the water pump and thermostat find the oil low and extremely dirty ?
Good luck suing a Chinese Company.
That aftermarket thermostat has a great spring to use for a barn door silent closing application.
Hi Ivan, years ago I was taught a lesson on overheating engines, I thought I knew a lot about the subject. It turns out that that the newer engines need to be filled with a vacuum applied to them to keep the air pockets from forming. I told my customer to get rid of the car because it probably has a blown head gasket. the real problem was when he changed the antifreeze, he didn't use the "GM" method.
Rich
Have to be careful when using those vacuum fillers. Have ruined several water pumps. While doing a routine flush, heard a pop noise. Then when running coolant was leaking out of the weep hole. Pump was fine before the flush. The engine in the vid here, can fill those with no vac needed, now the old LT1, with reversed coolant flow, it was necessary to vac fill those.
For grins and giggles, this is called air lock. Grady over on Practical Engineering did a video on it a few years ago with some clear pipe to show what's going on inside.
I vacuum fill all the vehicles I service these days. It's quicker. I can fill it, cap it, run it, and test drive it and then give it back to the customer the same day. Before I would let it cool down overnight to make sure it stayed at level. I've never had any water pump issue. I'd be curious to know what kind of vehicle that happened on.
"Bleed" the coolant system
@@Garth2011 Yes, but vacuum fill is still usually faster and no risk of not getting the system fully bled.
NEW is an acronym for Never Ever Works. Thanks again to Kieth for that wisdom.
5 quarts of oil low is inexcusable !!! But...the truck is waxed , vacuumed and LOOKS COOL ! Good practice to always check oil on any customer vehicle . Some extra 2 cents : some vehicles can be hard to get air out of the cooling system and the front must be raised . The radiator tubes seem to clog in the middle which can be hard to access with a thermal camera , laser thermometer or your hand ( watch the fan coming on - ouch ! ) Great diagnosis and fix .
So I guess at the factory they put the new vehicle nose up and fill it vehicle with coolant?
@@2nickles647 Maybe it's done under pressure . I have a friends 2000 Honda 4 cylinder with an air pocket in the cooling system . The bleeder is frozen and will have to be torched . The air is not coming out .
@@2nickles647 There is a tool that uses shop air and vacuum to fill the system . I doubt most shops have it . They probably use the cooling funnel fill kit . See video from Ratchets and Wrenches . There may be a few vehicles where the highest point in the cooling system is in the heater core and air is trapped . I think that tool would eliminate come backs .
@@2nickles647 I believe OEM are vacuum filled.
Good Morning Ivan have a good weekend ! and Mechanical met the technical ..Over heating we just used to take the thermostat out and poke a hole in it or take it it out. Good enough to get you home.
Always nice to see a video that’s not electronic related. Some of us need help in all areas of repair.👍🏼
Wow, bad thermostat!! Crazy, at least oem fixed that problem! Great job Ivan!
He is one hundred percent right. The thermostat is a critical item. If it fails, you could quickly seize the engine. Going Cheap can cost you big time.
Stant used to be good brand....5 qts. Low...omg!! Your the best ivanski !! Get yourself big glass of lemonade
I agree with you! We see this all the time at the shop i work at. New parts especially the value minded ones are not always good just because they are new.
Got my driver's license and a 10 year old Chevy C10 in 1980, my father told me to check the oil at least every week and change it every 3k miles, check the brake fluid and belts, I still check the oil every week, my Toyota never needs any but it's still a good habit to at least look under the hood
I like these once in awhile when the only scan tool needed is on the end of your arm and between the ears. 👍👍🇺🇸
Vehicles today have multiple computers and
Networks where all sensors are connected,
Without the ability to read all sensors and codes your hands will
Be Emply much less your thought process.
Best of Luck.......
Thanks to all those who
Video on u-tube true
Pioneers in the Present Moment......
@@Gruin True for most electrical issues , but in this situation the problem was elementary for someone like Ivan. He did some basic checks with the scan tool, but He knew what the problem was when He put His hand on the top radiator hose. Proper scan tools are certainly a necessity but not always the 100% cure all. That’s when experience comes in to the picture.
seeing pine hollow and i instantly recognise a worthwhile honest to goodness diagnostic video .Respect .
I thought at first you had a scenario like one I saw on an F-150, but to my surprise I’ve yet to see one like it roll into your shop. Truck would intermittently limp home and shop had changed the engine swearing an overheating issue; temp gauge was pegged. Same issue remained. The customer had installed an aftermarket thermostat with inadequate flow across the coolant temp sensor. The thermostat was swapped to the replacement engine. The truck was never overheating.
Simple and easy fix with the proper part, Ivan! I guess, having a scanner made customer ignore the oil dipstick. Always check the basics directly - even scantools can lie to you.
still watching the video so this may be a premature observation but I always consider air in the system when problems like this happen. regardless of if the t-tstat is working correctly or not.
is good that u showing it! new, non- electrical part could be bad too !we all learned from it.
Just subscribed after seeing the video. I have a 2015 that would not complete a drive cycle. The ECT would drop out of closed loop once driving. 90K on the clock and original thermostat. Now I get a solid 210 ECT. I have the V6 WT so overheating is never an issue, even in Texas heat. Thanks for the video! jim
Very true what he said about Motorad! 3 times they failed me out of the box and the worst part is they all fail closed!
Most people don't check their oil between oii changes and with Chevy's drinking oil either by leaking it or burning it, it doesn't surprise me this engine was almost empty of oil. Good on you for liability to check this before touching it. We had a customer's engine seize on us because it had 0 oil in it. Customer tried to claim we seized the engine. 16,000 miles past due for oil change according to the sticker on the windshield. We then started checking for oil on all cars before attempting to move them into the garage from the parking lot for this very reason.
I have a 2011 volvo that doesn't burn oil but uses it somewhere that is not a steady drain.It uses oil intermittently,goes three weeks useing nothing,then down 2 qts the next week.I Drove 1500 hundret miles from Massachusetts to Colorado and used none ? It has to be the pvc system?
@@peterwill3699 Could be the PCV intermittently sticking, could be dirt in the turbo seals could also be the piston rings sticking here/there or all the rings lining up at the gapped area from time to time. So many things could be happening.
People have a lazy tentecy of not checking important fluids??? crazy,good job.
In over forty years of working as a tech, I’ve had more “bad” thermostats out of the box than good ones. And that goes for both, OEM and Aftermarket. The record of bad ones in a row was in the 80’s when working at a Ford technician, I finally got a good, working thermostat on the fifth try. Always, always test your new thermostat before installing, OEM or Aftermarket.
Nice video and quick old school diagnosis. Like Eric at SMA says “new doesn’t mean good “ 🤣🤣
Thanks for another weekend case study Ivan. Hope you’re able to get out on your bike and enjoy summer a bit between all the great lessons you’ve been giving us….even the small lessons like check your customer’s oil before anything. We appreciate you my man!
I've always said, new = never ever worked (yet)
While an OE new part isn't a guarantee it's much more likely to be ok and correct for the application.
In diag it says "replace with known good component" not new. But, in many situations it's not reasonable or cost effective to use new, in this case, absolutely!
Yea, me too. I was taught 50 years ago to always put a new thermostate in water and make sure it opens.
I always ask the customer , what was the last repair done to it , bingo the thermostat😂🤣😅
I see complaints about new vehicles not having an engine oil dipstick. I would say most people never check them anyway.
Great video and advice. Changed my thermostat awhile back with genuine Hyundai part. Cost was a bit more but works fine. Thanks for sharing
Not related to this vid but I went to go use my 12v plug in my wrangler today. Nothing. Got all excited to play Ivan. Checked fuse without removing it. It was good. Check for power at the fuse after starting the vehicle. Nothing. Really got excited to dig in. Then I realized remote start doesn't count as "running". Started the wrangler using the ignition and everything worked lol. Womp womp. Maybe one day. Thanks for all the learnings and content Ivan.
Always have to check that oil. Modern engines will burn a little oil, especially if its thinner oil like 0w-20, so you need to check it often.
Another thing to keep in mind (not applying to this vehicle), is that if you have a car with only electric cooling fans, and a coolant switch that only kicks on above boiling, that you can have a radiator cap that doesn’t hold full pressure cause overheating under certain conditions. This because the pressure will not be applied and the coolant will start to boil before the coolant can reach the temp needed to turn on the fan. I had one where this occurred and replaced the cap, and then of course the water pump started leaking because it was worn too and couldn’t hold the 16 psi of the new cap☹️.
I was almost wishing for the overheat to be oil related. As you know IVAN, the engine needs to be running in normal parameters before we can blame the CAT Eff. Thanks for the easy FIX.
Never assume your new parts are good just because they're new! I've seen that on more than one occasion "I just replaced XXX, it can't be that". All signs point to that, replace it again anyway.
I have not trusted aftermarket thermostats for years and have only used OEM ones except when they are no longer available such as for my 1970 Monte Carlo. Nice diagnosis.
Ivan , I own a shop and yes the parts we get are junk now , seeing at least 25% defective rate , not just Dorman, it's across the board.
It's ridiculous! 😢
1 in 4 is insane
Simple obvious problem just with hand feeling the hoses
Don't understand why it wasn't found in the first round
Always a good video from you
hopefully your customer accepted the oil change issue . a life saver for his engine . I had a similar overheating with a Honda CRV 2 litre petrol the water pump was totally devoid of impeller blades .I have seen a mecedes Sprinter ambulance with a similar corroded off water pump blades .
Ive given the upper hose a few quick squeezes and that often has gotten the thermostat to open when its sticking. You can also put the old stat in a non food pot of water and turn turn the heat on and see if it opens before the water boils.
Ah, good old GM,
No oil on the stick should be a trade mark 😂
Wasn't always that way. I had a 79 2wd that didn't burn oil.
390,000 miles on my Chevy Van just drips a tiny bit .
Doesn't burn any oil.
Yea, my tundra was like that too.
It's a GM, it comes pre-broken from the factory...
@@Nudnik1nice!
That is a good practice to check the oil before you drive it because no one checks their oil.
They are removing the dipsticks now on the new Dodge Hurricane engine
Good call on the thermostat.Should clean fins radiator too.As you accelerate temperature meter should go down.If not clean radiator fins both sides.With dish soap.Regular hose.No pressure washer.Fines are delicate air flow is vital for proper cooling.Figured it out after water pump and thermostat replacement .Nedal would stay at 210 degrees even after acceleration.
Dear Ivan I install many Motorad thermostat including Factory OEM thermostat and Gates thermostat but no matter which brand you buy you can always end up with one bad one that not working. But unfortunately, many people do not realize this, and I assume that just because it is a brand new thermostat it should work, Instead of just replacing that bad new one with another new one, and I actually prefer Gates products over all them.
Gates is hit and miss, too, in my experience. It's OK for some vehicles but not for others. OE for the win. I have stayed away from Motorad for years, especially for Asian vehicles. It's one of the cheapo styles of thermostats on Japanese vehicles and they fail in short order. Been there done that.
@@johnaclark1 There all hit and miss all brands, You do know that MotoRad is OEMs Tier-1 suppliers for GM, BWM, VW and many other.
@@SHSPVR Manufacturers may have different lines for their OE than for their retail brands. Since most everyone knows you have to replace a BMW or VW cooling system after 5-7 years due to disintegrating plastic and other failures, I'm not surprised Motorad makes it for them. Go over to RockAuto and look at photos of thermostats for any Honda or Toyota and compare an Aisin, TAMA, or Beck/Arnley thermostat to a Motorad and you'll see the difference. It's just cheap junk.
In 2002 I had a 1992 Accord that started overheating a little bit. I went to NAPA and bought one of their thermostats and installed it. Took it for a test drive and the car overheated very quickly. Got a ride to a Honda dealer an hour away and got a genuine thermostat. While I had the original, the NAPA and the new genuine thermostat all side by side, I put them in boiling water. The new Honda thermostat opened fully very quickly. The old Honda thermostat opened slowly about half way. And the NAPA thermostat did nothing and remained closed. Went in to NAPA and the store manager told me that they would refund my money but that their thermostat was fine and you can't put them in boiling water to test them. He claimed that to test their thermostats they have to also be in a pressurized system to simulate being in a cars cooling system and then they will open. I told him about the other thermostats opening in boiling water and he just repeated that that's not how NAPA thermostats should be tested. I haven't bought anything at NAPA since then.
NAPA Store manager is full of 💩💩💩😂
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics They sell parts, they are not mechanics. They're experts when it comes to the mechanics of a transaction and that's the extent of their expertise. The same is true for any auto parts place. Why people go to the various parts places and think they will fix their car is one of the mysteries of the universe, but marketing and advertising directed toward idiots is what I blame. People who take responsibility for their own property(like a car or truck) don't fall for that shiite and don't have problems with basic maintenence.
I just went through this with my Taurus. Same brand and everything. I ended up putting an OEM Ford thermostat in it as well.
@@alariccatlett I've noticed that even Motorcraft OEM thermostats in my 96 Mystique crap out every 5 years or so. They start opening a bit too early and the cabin heat in the winter isn't as good. Not a huge deal but still annoying 😅
6 months ago I worked on a buick Encore with coolant leaks after an expensive parts cannon fail. I replaced one elbow and a short peice of hose and it fixed the problem. Yesterday I used the hose for something unrelated and 5 acorns fell out. I am now confused as to how they got in a sealed system, but I remember vacuuming lots of acorns out of the engine bay.
You put the old one where mice were storing acorns ,then used it for something else.
@@peterwill3699 Great theory! However there is not an acorn tree within 5 miles of my bougie neighborhood. They were also burnt, so they definitely had been hot. It's possible a mouse is trolling me, got the acorns out of my shop vac and put them in the hose. That's my working theory.
Had same thing happen on my 2004 F-150 4.6. Bought the most expensive thermostat and only lasted couple months.
How many miles do you have on your F150?
@@nonexistence7986 250,000
Most engines used to be 5 quarts with oil filter change. Not so much any more. Maybe a DIYer assumed this truck was the same and it got driven a ways after. Bottom line, never assume oil capacity. Look it up first. Also it's good that you record all your diagnostic codes and findings. It helps prevent customer tomfoolery down the road ("it was fine when I brought it to you").
Another great job, I like your phone infrared great for quick checks like this👍
Ivan is so right, OEM only. I just failed with Amazon and eBay MAF sensor for my old mazda MPV. scanner data showed the MAF reading 9 g/s of air. ordered Rcokauto part.
So, was a bad thermostat replaced with a bad thermostat?
Great question!! I was thinking the same. Someone mentioned the low oil level may have been the root cause of the overheating. Not sure how much this engine relies on oil for cooling. I know some have oil sprayers that spray the bottoms of the pistons. However, if there wasn't enough oil for spraying, there certainly wasn't enough for lubrication.
I removed 3 or 4 red cloth shop rags from an upper radiator hose. That was very difficult to find as they were stuck right at the turn to the radiator. '77 T-bird. With cap off I could see only a little water running in.
Another fine video Ivan! Funny coincidence, this week I replaced a leaking Motor-rad thermostat on a 2018 Silverado.
On that particular thermostat, the way it is built into the housing it can only go one way. Dad always told me the spring needs to go towards the engine. I don't know about GM OEM parts, however, Brian from Ford Tech Makuloco did a video some time ago about counterfeit Motorcraft parts. He stated, as did Eric O. with South Main Auto, that it is best to buy from a brick-and-mortar store. If I had placed a bet, I would have bet the owner didn't notice the correct temperature since he didn't know how much oil was in the engine. I like how you check oil, Ivan. You pull the dipstick and read the level without bringing the tip up allowing the oil to run down the stick. Hey, these days 3 out of 8 quarts isn't bad. In the words of Eric O. with SMA, "Just because it is new doesn't mean it is good." Just goes to show a person still needs to check the basics. GREAT VIDEO!
To change the oil without a filter change with a need to measure the amount of oil in the pan I use a Holt Industries Deluxe Manual Fluid Extractor and Dispenser (it has a fluid scale in Liters) and use the dip-stick tube to insert a line to suck out the old oil and pump in new oil. Dump the old oil (transfer to your oil holding tank) after recording volume and fill the Holt with the needed oil minus the amount in the filter (estimate) and pump back into the pan. Measure the level with the dip stick. If okay, start the engine let run for about 2 minutes, turn off engine and wait about 5 minutes for all the oil to drain back to the pan. Measure the oil level once again and add additional oil if necessary. With the Holt for oil change only, there is no pan mess, no need to remove the pan bolt, and no oil transfer mess
If the oil level is okay before the change you can just record the amount pumped out with a piece of tape on the Holt and then pump in the same amount.
In testing avoid the coolant temp from rising above 235 Degrees F if possible.
For this type of thermostat replacement I give the customer the option of replacing the factory hose clamps with Aba 316 stainless steel Marine rated hose clamps. The Aba Marine hose clamps are very smooth and gouge free so you can easily tighten without damaging the hose or cracking the plastic and I have yet to see one corrode due to road salt spray. I have a full line of Aba 316 SS clamps so I can pick the exact size that fits best.
But we have to ask ourselves how is it that there is only 3 quarts in the pan? I thought this year truck had the oil level low alter message. Is the truck leaking oil? Is the truck burning oil?
Hi Ivan, great stuff. Hope you were not being set up with the low engine oil, engine blows on test you pay. Many thanks from UK.
Provided the oil pressure light is not on shouldn't be a problem.
Ivan, I heard that the 5.3 L the hot flow comes into the top radiator hose and out the bottom. Reverse of the old days coolant flow.
I replaced the thermostat in my wife's Wrangler and had a similar problem. Tried to get one from the dealer, but they were on backorder so I had to go aftermarket. The first one I put in was opening too early. It caused the jeep to kick a code for slow warm up time. Second attempt worked better. Unfortunately I cant remember where I got them from now...
Wohldnt excessive low oil level contribute to overheating as well? Oil does help keep an engine cool, does it not? I am astounded at the level of crap parts being made.
Yes and no. Yes in the sense that oil is carrying heat away. No in the sense that, unless there is an oil cooler, the engine probably wasn't designed to need the oil to remove heat. This isn't true on all engines. On air-cooled aircraft engines, they use an oil cooler. There, the oil is a big contributor to keeping the engine cool.
Yeah, when the oil levels that low, it would definitely contribute to overheating.
That was not a factor in this situation.
The Gen 3 onwards V8 engines do use a little bit of oil so just keep your eye on the oil level on the dipstick.
It's usually about once every 5000 kilometres or 3000 miles that I have to add 1 litre or 1 quart of oil because it falls down to the add mark in my 5.7 litre Chevrolet LS1 V8 engine.
Once it falls down to the add mark then it requires about 1 litre or 1 quart of oil to bring the oil level back up to the full mark, the engine uses 2 litres or 2 quarts of oil within the 10,000 kilometre or 6000 miles service interval, since mine is bolted into a Holden Commodore, Holden says that anything in excess of 2.5 litres of oil consumption within the service interval is excessive & the engine needs a rebuild, etc.
I had an issue 19 months ago when the engine boiled over,it was because I didn't bleed the cooling system properly meaning that it had an air pocket trapped inside of the engine, when I replenished the coolant I made sure that the thermo fans turned on before switching the engine off so as to make that the cooling system was properly bled.
I have a 91°C or a 196°F thermostat fitted which is from the U.S. instead of the standard 86°C or 187°F thermostat so the one that I have fitted opens a tad later although it doesn't make any difference to the running temperature of the engine !
I wouldn't even trust OEM parts. Ordered a GM Genuine for our 04 Express 6.0L when I changed the waterpump. Did a long trip and noticed it seemed to run 5-10 degrees warmer than the Murray Pro prior. Now that's hot it's wanting to run 220-240, normally that's mountain climbing temps. Interesting enough it actually runs hotter when you have the heat on. Granted could be few other things since I haven't opened it up yet. And maybe rockauto's catalog was wrong since there was alot of spring pressure versus the old thermostat even though looked exactly the same as the previous.
Doesn’t surprise me at all! Thanks!
I wonder how long the "new" water pump will last if the customer used the same parts store.
Good process Ivan to always check oil before starting a diag.
Aftermarket junk! Unless the OEM says "No Longer Available!" Then what?
Good diagnose and repair Ivan.
Thanks for the lesson. Great video.
I'm not saying Ivan is wrong about aftermarket parts. However, mechanics only see the stuff that goes wrong. They never see the stuff that goes right. I mean, who brings their vehicle in the shop after a repair to say nothing is wrong? This is a form of survivorship bias, which has an interesting history. So before listening to a doctor, mechanic, etc about their experience and recommendations, just keep this in mind.
Motorad has been junk for a long time. Many of the companies, like Motorad, that used to be good have had to cut costs and the expense of a reliable product.
_"However, mechanics only see the stuff that goes wrong."_ Correct, and when mechanics regularly see aftermarket parts cause problems then it's a sure sign that there is a quality problem with them.
I've been saying it for years. The stealership, local shop, or DIY parts cannon fixes it 75% of the time. But it makes the other 25% extremely tedious. That being said, I still use OEM on my cars 90% of the time.
That's normal behavior with people who want to blame the mechanic.
If there is nothing wrong. Why did you bring it in?
I've learned NEVER trust anyone.
Once they start talking, it's an endless rant.
I have my ford, it's got a Cold air intake system, Randy's ring/pinion blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
So what's wrong?
What year and make?
O it's out there...there the big red one.
😅😅😅😅
@@ferrumignis Thank you for proving my point. For all we know 99.99% of the aftermarket stuff works just fine. But if all you ever see is the 0.01% that doesn't work, you'd come to the conclusion that it's all junk. Look up the history of survivorship bias, which is a form of selection bias. The big example in Wikipedia was in WWII in deciding how to armor aircraft. They wanted to put armor where they saw bullet holes, which was on the wings. But that was a mistake. The aircraft that were getting shot down had damage in the cockpit, engine, and tail. But they never saw those aircraft because they never make it back home. So they were drawing the wrong conclusions because they didn't have the right data. Like I said, not arguing with Ivan. It's probably junk. I'm just pointing out a common error that people make and to be mindful of it
Great case study again.
Good job Ivan! Thanks for posting.
My 2019f150 cooling fans were cycling for seemingly for no reason. Even at 0° outdoor temperature. I changed out the thermostat after reading some stick with a new style motor from the dealer, including the O-ring that comes with it. Work like a champ the thermostat. The OEM thermostat cost $10 more than the other rock auto thermostats. It’s just not worth messing around.
I have not had good luck with Stant either. After 42,000 miles only on my 02 Civic, it became stuck closed. Caught the problem before any damage was done.
Great video Ivan.
Next time you change the transmission filter if the pan hold 3 qt tell the customer to change the oil in the trans pan every time they change the motor oil this way the transmission gets clean fresh oil and it stay cleaner the transmission may last longer you do good work my friend cool how you fix cars the dealers can't do
Hi Ivan, old school boiling a (faulty) thermostat in a pan with water shows it's functioning. From before the days of thermal camera's... 😅
Fully Agree, but it part of the program process.
I had a v6 come in that only had 1 3/4 quarts in it, oil light was no on. I was in shock, but the engine was and still is fine.
First thought... Understand coolant circuit flow, sometimes those GM's have duel thermostats. Check/confirm coolant flow. Use an IR gun to check temps/differentials at various locations. Radiator plugged. Use refractometer to check freeze point of coolant. Yes I have one of those. [50/50 is -34 deg f, 60/40 is -10] Fans working, air flow though radiator restricted. On many different scenarios I have had to go back and tell myself one fundamental truth... It was made to work.
Now without watching the video and seeing the comments I see it was a defective new thermostat. I prefer Stant cooling products.
Why was the WP and Thermostat changed in the first place? That would really suck if you had a stuck shut thermo and the new one was also stuck shut.
Surprised it didn't throw a thermostat rationality code. ??? Thx Ivan!
Seems like this truck is also having an oil consumption issue that is damaging the catalytic converters. 5 quarts low and cat efficiency codes. No bueno
As Eric O. at SMA always says - "New does not mean good!"
I am having too many issues with OEM parts too. Some OEM parts are different suppliers because the original stock of some pieces sold out and the re-order has to go to one of the aftermarket makers as the OEM company is gone due to corp buyout
When teaching young Padawns at the stealership, I would tell them to fill out the sticker and reset the oil life in the computer as you pull the vehicle into the bay and before you pop the hood. Next, fill the washer fluid. Many customers will check both of these items in the parking lot and claim if either is missing, you didn’t change the oil.
You mean the dealership can just replace the sticker and not do the oil change? That would be funny. How many times did you have to show the customer the dipstick and the difference between clean oil and oil that needs replacing?
I used to have a Chevrolet, and it would wait until 220 degrees to turn on the cooling fans
Yep, those closed systems works best at 220 due to the pressure in the system. Coolant will not boil.
As soon as you open the hot system the coolant boils instantly due to the released pressure.
I just went through replacing my old Watts water pressure regulator on my house. It working fine , just replacing it due to age. Bought two brand new units and both were bad. Went ahead and put the old unit back on. So, apparently all companies are onboard to sell garbage.
Don’t throw out an old horse because he’s been a good horse. My trade school teacher always told me that.